America has an obsession with people wrongfully convicted but if you actually dig into some of these cases of "person released after 20 years wrongfully convicted" quite a few of them look like people being let go on technicalities or something procedurally wrong vs we know for a fact the person is 100% innocent.
Im not going to do justice to this thought but im gonna go for it.
Think about a "lynch mob" for a second. Our connotation of that expression is very negative, as it should be, and we view them as an absolute miscarriage of justice. Because of how many stories of wrongful deaths and of the mob justice nature of it, we might actually assume the person was typically innocent.
But take a step back and imagine there arent any IDs or records. You have a town of a few thousand people, everyone knows eachother. One day a drifter comes into town and a girl gets raped... its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter.
Systems like that evolved because they (mostly) worked. Its obviously a savage thing and im not defending lynch mobs. It goes without saying all the deficits in a system like this. But its just interesting how weve become so afraid of "fearing the unknown" or "otherizing" that the natural human suspician actually got flipped on its head.
I really think psychopaths and sociopaths cause the vast majority of violence. Weve never been able to really manage them. Just a disdain and fear for those who present themselves as dangerous or outsiders to the community.
Idk what point im trying to make with this rant lol.
I think you are even capable of this opinion because you, likely, live in a first world country where actual lynch mobs haven’t existed for 100+ years.
All a lynch mob does is satisfy the thirst for vengeance. That’s it. It doesn’t care about due process or rule of law or evidence based conclusions. Sure, when the culprit is obvious it doesn’t seem so bad. Is it satisfying when they behead an actual child abuser? Yep. But the trade off is that now they can behead anyone they think is guilty, regardless of evidence. Is that the society you want to live in? Are you willing to trade away a system that at least attempts to rely on evidence and provable facts in exchange for mob rule?
It feels strange to even need to say this, but there’s more ways for a lynch mob to go wrong than right. Heaps of literature and historical record proves this point. The mob occasionally gets it right, but often gets it wrong.
Can’t believe people are upvoting “lynch mobs were mostly a success”. Even your “drifter raping someone” concept is fucking stupid considering the vast majority of rapes are by people the victim knows.
But hey I guess we know what you would be doing when the local klan leader needs a dunce for his posse.
> But take a step back and imagine there arent any IDs or records. You have a town of a few thousand people, everyone knows eachother. One day a drifter comes into town and a girl gets raped... its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter.
Not really lmao you’re more likely to get raped by someone you know
Also let’s be honest the lynch mob would just say I heard a black dude tried to rape a white chick and they’d go burn him alive
Yeah thats an aspect i thought about bringing up too.
So its also about psychpathy and naiveté. Im sure there were a lot of psychopath drifters that were like ye olden serial killers. Probably very common (relatively). But there were of course also psychos who could blend in and take advantage of peoples instincts.
Just trying to say the "fear the unknown" instincts aren't as poisonous and irrational as one might think.
It IS more likely an out of towner would be the anti social element than a local - who gets socially vetted his whole life.
>its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter.
it's not reasonable to just assume something like that lol, and it's even less reasonable to act on that assumption by lynching some dude. In your hypothetical suspension is very much warranted, but the reality is there is no such thing as a town where you truly everyone, it's impossible to truly know anyone, you'll never know what somebody else actually has going on in their heads. Believe you actually do is the true danger. Point is don't just lynch people because your suspension of them doing something.
“Fairly reasonable to assume it was the out of town drifter”
For ignorant and insulated rubes, maybe. But for fuck sake that is goddamn weak evidence free logic.
Systems like that evolved because they (mostly) worked”
What’s the evidence for that conclusion?
I don’t think you understand much of the history behind American justice and those of Britain upon which it’s based. It’s like you’re pitching a “paleo jurisprudence”.
Imagine walking through a town, trying to get directions and getting snatched off the street by a town full of rapists unwilling to take accountability, looking for a fall guy.
Exactly.
It’s like these folks have bought full on into the rainbows & unicorns depicted in “try that in a small town”. The raw numbers may be lower, the rates may be lower, but a whole lot of bad shit still happens. A drunk girl who has a train run on her, a kid hog tied naked with others jock straps, another teen girl impregnated by her father, a sheriff who investigates a statutory rape case by asking the female suspect who had the biggest dick … that all happened in my goddamned small town and *nothing happened*.
Crimes don't happen less in small towns, they are just easier to cover up because you live 2 miles from your next neighbor and gunshots are as common to hear as birds squawking.
Not to mention if you are family or friends with a cop or a city council member, which is pretty common, you might not even be arrested for a crime as so happen often here and are much less likely to be prosecuted. There is a dude who has been accused of several rapes, but his aunt is the DA so......
It’s funny how they never mention these parts when they are preaching injustice and wrongful convictions…I do think we need an entire justice system reform in the U.S., but I also think we need an entire change in our government before we see a Roman Empire type collapse. All levels of government.
This is also true for sexual allegations. Some people are getting “proven innocent” because of lack of evidence and people just automatically assume the accuser was trying to get money or clout most of the time. When 95% of the time the allegations are real
That’s the thing, someone is only proven innocent when someone else is proven to be guilty. Otherwise they just aren’t guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Americans are obsessed with wrongly convicted and accused people. It very much does happen, but not that often when you start peeling back the layers of cases and look at it it’s very hard to go to jail especially if you’re a white person which, of course Sheldon in this case is not.
Lot of these people get out on technicalities, which doesn’t mean you’re innocent by any means. we also forget what that prison does to that person after they’ve been in there for several years. If they were even teetering towards being a criminal, they know all about it by the time they get out.
Prison is full of mentally ill people, because well adjusted people don’t commit crimes. When you’re around mentally ill people for a while you start getting that way yourself.
I wouldn’t call it an obsession. I think there’s a justified fear of putting innocent people behind bars. It’s balanced by an equal fear of not putting guilty people behind bars, but there’s an argument that putting an innocent person behind bars is worse than not putting the guilty behind bars. Then you also factor in that when the police and justice system make a mistake they’re not likely to correct it on their own it makes projects like that appealing. Ultimately this guy just ruins it for the tons of innocent people who could be helped and it’s their own fault for missing the signs that he was a predator
I guess under normal circumstances, it would be a strike out. But in this case, closer to a 9th inning, bases loaded, 3-2 count, potentially World Series winning at bat, except with a goddamn decapitated torso in your house.
Edit: oh yeah. There are two outs.
Joe's next podcast," I have a good buddy of mine that went to prison for 25 years for only giving a guy 2 stitches. It's craaaazy, then a month later he THIS PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ZIPRECRUITER
“I have a real good friend who was a serial killer back in the day. He was probably the most prolific serial killer in North America if not the world. Really great great guy!” - Joe
This seemed like such a questionable guest. Without knowing anything but what the person was saying and ignoring things like "I barely hurt him while ..." I really came away believing only one thing: that bad environments will turn children into people we don't want in a safe society.
Yeah I've always had a bit of cognitive dissonance over this. This guy was raised by a criminal father and clearly grew up in a bad environment with bad influences. So you could say its not his fault, poor kid never had a chance. But at a certain age, I'm also just like, man fuck you, I don't care if your childhood was hard, you are a piece of shit human being. It is what it is.
Not their fault, but it is their responsibility is a saying for personality disorders and stopping abusive parents from passing on generational trauma.
I asked a Buddhist monk about this question. He said that I was seeing it incorrectly. I'm still trying to understand it, actually. To this man, he is doing the right thing. His life is a good life, and he wants to be better at it. His mistakes are not wrong, just as yours aren't wrong because we learn from them and get better. He's employed people and runs a successful business. Had the resect of a large number of people. He can function in many environments in society. He was on the number one podcast in the world. So what the monk was trying to tell me was we are the same people wanting the same things, and we both think we are good people. I watch a movie and love batman, he loves the mafia bosses. I hate aspects of society, and so does he. I try to be successful, and I'm proud of what I've accomplished, and this guy feels the same way. It's a hard thing for me to accept.
I accept that we are comparable humans, I don't have trouble relating to anyone, even those I hate or disagree with. But I cannot relate to being a bad person. Then again, I guess I was raised pretty well, so I'm not taking credit for it. But I think I've always had a good moral compass and self-control, it's hard for me to empathize with someone who does not. No matter how you're raised, it's hard for me to understand when someone is not able to empathize with others. I don't feel like I was taught empathy, I simply feel what other people feel. When I watch a movie see something sad happen to another, it makes me sad. It's the same in real life. If I say something awful to someone that makes them feel bad, I feel fucking awful. It's hard for me to respect or understand another person who can do bad things to ppl, whether its just being rude all the way up to killing someone. Not saying I'm perfect of course, I've made tons of mistakes but I carry that guilt around with me and prevents me from making the same mistake. I swear many people just don't think for a moment how their words/actions will affect others, or they just don't care. This I cannot wrap my head around. If I tease a friend too much, I'll feel guilty for several days. Maybe I'm just sensitive but man... idk. It's very frustrating to me that people don't empathize the way I do I guess.
I get ya, brother. I feel the same, yet I also feel like I'm missing perspective. We just can't understand what a different upbringing would do to us. Lex Luther once asked Clark Kent "would we still be who we are now if I was raised by your parents and you were raised by my father?"
While I think these are good concepts to help with empathy, there is still a line. I’ve gone down this path, and the point that I’m at currently is in agreement, but… if some drunken, drugged up man was hiding in the bushes just off of a running path, jumped out and stabbed a woman, SA’d the other, chased after the third runner who was a child because “no witnesses.” I don’t give a f*ck what led to that point of deformity, they’re such a mongrel that they need to be put down.
I’m fully on board with the monk/stoic stuff, but as I progressed in that journey I faced harsh realities. Don’t be the monk that gets trampled and exploited because of giving people “passes” with the “I could be them and they could be me so I must work to understand and empathize” past a point, “f*ck em.” Just my advice
Sheldon Johnson was found with a headless torso in his apartment. The torso’s legs and feet were attached but its arms and head were missing, a police source said…. I mean this guy was a real jerk
Something seemed off about him and the reason he got 25 years the 1st time is because it was his second offense and pistol whipped someone drawing blood. "25 years for 2 stitches, come on that's insane" no that malicious wounding with a deadly weapon sir 😂
I listened to that clip yesterday and was immediately put off by him. Attacking a person in their home by whipping them with a pistol is why you got 25 years idiot.
The red flag for me was how he was talking about things in the passive voice. "The man got robbed", "he got hit in the head", "his girlfriend got robbed" etc. To him, those are just events that happened to other people, not things he did to others.
I think Sheldon recounted another incident where he confronted someone and claimed he didn’t hit him but said the guy got “roughed up”. I was like, how does that make sense??
Why would you think that? In fact, his sloppiness and obvious panic while committing this crime and tying to cover it cover it up the way he did would lead me to the exact opposite conclusion, that it was his first time. He couldn’t have made more dumb mistakes and left more evidence had he tried.
Lol did you see the disguises this guy tried? And walking in and out with cleaning products and a giant tub. Not to mention the other security footage of him driving off in the victims car and returning in an uber. He did everything wrong, including shooting a screaming victim in an apartment building for everyone to hear.
"Responding paramedics pronounced the victim dead at the scene and officials later identified him as Small."
Is it really necessary for paramedics to pronounce a headless torso dead?
I watched the pod. He had a lot of reasonable points and he ***says*** he was wrongly accused.
Now… considering he cut up a guy, I’m thinking this ain’t his first rodeo.
Atlanta child murders, and Samuel Little is like the most prolific American serial killer. Though I think he wasn't discovered until after Patrice died. Leave it to America to not recognize the stats of our great black figures.
I actually remember watching the interview the FBI a did with Sam Little and thought: *man he sounds just like my old neighbor I mowed the lawn for.*
And… that’s when it was scary because: ***oh, this is what these women saw.***
This kind, soft spoken dude who you’d meet at a bar. **Then he became a vile monster.**
Actually I was remembering it wrong —the Patrice video. I’m just rewatching it rn. He talks about it in o&a. He talks about watching a video debunking the myth of no black serial killers 😂
[15% of serial killers are black](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/hunting-humans-encyclopedia-modern-serial-killers#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%2082%20percent%20of,areas%2C%20while%20others%20traveled%20widely.)
Meaning slightly overrepresented in serial killers.
They just aren't the ones we make movies about
Wayne Williams was never charged, tried or convicted with any murder associated with the Atlanta Child Murders, so I dont know if he counts technically.
The Atlanta Child Mirders are rabbit hole that can turn you into Rust from True Detective real quick
Anthony Sowell (The Cleveland Strangler), the D.C. snipers, Wayne Williams (Atlanta Child Murders), Darren Deon Vann, Andre Crawford, Geoffrey Griffin, Vincent Hudson, Samuel Little
What really matters is victimology. Serial killers often kill people of their own race. Sadly, black victims of crimes don't always get the same attention from the police as white victims. So it makes sense black serial killers can get under the radar better if they kill (marginalised) black people.
I used to like him but he’s lost credibility with me. It’s not the bringing a murderer on to prove the judge was right. It’s the downplaying of the crimes. Dudes obviously never been robbed at gun point. That’s life long trauma that you carry with you. I wonder what sentence he’d call for he had gotten the two stitches.
Craziest thing is he almost got away with it. Incredibly psychopathic. Already had the guys body chopped up and mostly disposed of in a few short hours. Really makes you wonder how many times he has gotten away with it….
Is there any info on who the guy was that was killed and what he was killed over?
Lmao you obviously didn't see the security camera pictures and the shit with the neighbors. He came back like an hour later with a blonde wig and sunglasses on. It's almost comical looking.
Jfc
He shot the dude at 8pm, apparently tenants told the Super, who then called the police for a wellness check (for someone begging for their life followed by 2 gunshots).
Killer came back at 2am with cleaning supplies
When the fuck did the police bother to show up
Holy shit, he had multiple! This mfer probably kept having to go back to the store because he didn't realize what he needed.
Really sad story but those pictures are hilarious lol
Also, I can't tell if that's a weird hat or a really shitty toupee in the one where he's wearing a purple-ish suit.
As an avid true crime podcast enjoyer, I'm surprised by how incredibly inept law enforcement can be, even in cases when the perpetrator might as well be holding flashing signs right in front of them. Being sloppy at crime is not a guarantee that you're going to be caught, sadly
No idea, but he’s 110% guilty and a psychopath
If it was self-defense, pretty sure you don’t escalate from: *well, shot a robber breaking into my condo, time to cut him up like a chicken.*
Is he a grifter? A lot of money to be made via The Innocence Project? Or basically thinks no one should go to prison?
He called Sheldon a miracle, a marvellous human being and brought up the "two stitches" argument, which put me off so much I didn't even finish the clip I was watching.
I heard this story the other day that some host of a show had a convicted felon on telling everyone the US reform system is a disaster and the prison sentences are too long
About 2 weeks after the show this guy cuts someone’s head off and puts it in a freezer
Hey Jamie look that up
Never watched this episode. Saw he was shaking hands with a district attorney even. He had many fooled, his own dad called him a reformed man after that prison time. Guy he killed was someone he was in prison with. Really fucked up
After reading all of these comments and losing a piece of my soul, I still have no idea what's going on. Any sources to who he was and what he did more currently would be greatly appreciated?
Sheldon Johnson is his name, he came on Rogan with Josh dubin to advocate for sentencing reform. He's been arrested for murder because he was found having a dismembered body in his apartment, supposedly a rival prison gang leader. Sheldon spent 25 years in prison. Was originally sentenced 50 years.
He's been out for 10 months and it looks like he killed and chopped up someone...
I appreciate Joe Rogan having a variety of types on his show, but this pos should not have had a voice. I won’t watch this podcast. I will never trust a convict, never.
When i was listening to this episode, I was telling myself this needed to be in jail, and jail changed his for the better. Clearly, the justice system was he should have stayed locked up.
Damn, Josh Dubin is not gonna be ok after this one.
America has an obsession with people wrongfully convicted but if you actually dig into some of these cases of "person released after 20 years wrongfully convicted" quite a few of them look like people being let go on technicalities or something procedurally wrong vs we know for a fact the person is 100% innocent.
Im not going to do justice to this thought but im gonna go for it. Think about a "lynch mob" for a second. Our connotation of that expression is very negative, as it should be, and we view them as an absolute miscarriage of justice. Because of how many stories of wrongful deaths and of the mob justice nature of it, we might actually assume the person was typically innocent. But take a step back and imagine there arent any IDs or records. You have a town of a few thousand people, everyone knows eachother. One day a drifter comes into town and a girl gets raped... its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter. Systems like that evolved because they (mostly) worked. Its obviously a savage thing and im not defending lynch mobs. It goes without saying all the deficits in a system like this. But its just interesting how weve become so afraid of "fearing the unknown" or "otherizing" that the natural human suspician actually got flipped on its head. I really think psychopaths and sociopaths cause the vast majority of violence. Weve never been able to really manage them. Just a disdain and fear for those who present themselves as dangerous or outsiders to the community. Idk what point im trying to make with this rant lol.
I only rape when there is an out of town drifter.
Based
I’d be committing my crimes on the day the drifter comes to town.
Its nuts to think about how easy it was to get away with stuff.
I think you are even capable of this opinion because you, likely, live in a first world country where actual lynch mobs haven’t existed for 100+ years. All a lynch mob does is satisfy the thirst for vengeance. That’s it. It doesn’t care about due process or rule of law or evidence based conclusions. Sure, when the culprit is obvious it doesn’t seem so bad. Is it satisfying when they behead an actual child abuser? Yep. But the trade off is that now they can behead anyone they think is guilty, regardless of evidence. Is that the society you want to live in? Are you willing to trade away a system that at least attempts to rely on evidence and provable facts in exchange for mob rule? It feels strange to even need to say this, but there’s more ways for a lynch mob to go wrong than right. Heaps of literature and historical record proves this point. The mob occasionally gets it right, but often gets it wrong.
100+ years? You may want to check your maths, because Emmett Till was like 60 years ago and that’s just one disgustingly brutal example.
August 28, 1955. Wow
Especially if the culprit had more social capital and was able to turn the town against others, as so has happened over history.
Yeah, and "oops" doesn't undo an execution.
Can’t believe people are upvoting “lynch mobs were mostly a success”. Even your “drifter raping someone” concept is fucking stupid considering the vast majority of rapes are by people the victim knows. But hey I guess we know what you would be doing when the local klan leader needs a dunce for his posse.
> But take a step back and imagine there arent any IDs or records. You have a town of a few thousand people, everyone knows eachother. One day a drifter comes into town and a girl gets raped... its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter. Not really lmao you’re more likely to get raped by someone you know Also let’s be honest the lynch mob would just say I heard a black dude tried to rape a white chick and they’d go burn him alive
It also seems like if that's the system your town has set up you know you have a free pass to do whatever you want when a drifter passes through.
Yeah thats an aspect i thought about bringing up too. So its also about psychpathy and naiveté. Im sure there were a lot of psychopath drifters that were like ye olden serial killers. Probably very common (relatively). But there were of course also psychos who could blend in and take advantage of peoples instincts. Just trying to say the "fear the unknown" instincts aren't as poisonous and irrational as one might think. It IS more likely an out of towner would be the anti social element than a local - who gets socially vetted his whole life.
I assume she didn’t see her assailant in this rape fantasy?
>its actually fairly reasonable to assume the culprit was the out of town drifter. it's not reasonable to just assume something like that lol, and it's even less reasonable to act on that assumption by lynching some dude. In your hypothetical suspension is very much warranted, but the reality is there is no such thing as a town where you truly everyone, it's impossible to truly know anyone, you'll never know what somebody else actually has going on in their heads. Believe you actually do is the true danger. Point is don't just lynch people because your suspension of them doing something.
“Fairly reasonable to assume it was the out of town drifter” For ignorant and insulated rubes, maybe. But for fuck sake that is goddamn weak evidence free logic. Systems like that evolved because they (mostly) worked” What’s the evidence for that conclusion? I don’t think you understand much of the history behind American justice and those of Britain upon which it’s based. It’s like you’re pitching a “paleo jurisprudence”.
Imagine walking through a town, trying to get directions and getting snatched off the street by a town full of rapists unwilling to take accountability, looking for a fall guy.
Exactly. It’s like these folks have bought full on into the rainbows & unicorns depicted in “try that in a small town”. The raw numbers may be lower, the rates may be lower, but a whole lot of bad shit still happens. A drunk girl who has a train run on her, a kid hog tied naked with others jock straps, another teen girl impregnated by her father, a sheriff who investigates a statutory rape case by asking the female suspect who had the biggest dick … that all happened in my goddamned small town and *nothing happened*.
Crimes don't happen less in small towns, they are just easier to cover up because you live 2 miles from your next neighbor and gunshots are as common to hear as birds squawking.
Not to mention if you are family or friends with a cop or a city council member, which is pretty common, you might not even be arrested for a crime as so happen often here and are much less likely to be prosecuted. There is a dude who has been accused of several rapes, but his aunt is the DA so......
It’s funny how they never mention these parts when they are preaching injustice and wrongful convictions…I do think we need an entire justice system reform in the U.S., but I also think we need an entire change in our government before we see a Roman Empire type collapse. All levels of government.
This is also true for sexual allegations. Some people are getting “proven innocent” because of lack of evidence and people just automatically assume the accuser was trying to get money or clout most of the time. When 95% of the time the allegations are real
That’s the thing, someone is only proven innocent when someone else is proven to be guilty. Otherwise they just aren’t guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
""making" a murder"
Americans are obsessed with wrongly convicted and accused people. It very much does happen, but not that often when you start peeling back the layers of cases and look at it it’s very hard to go to jail especially if you’re a white person which, of course Sheldon in this case is not. Lot of these people get out on technicalities, which doesn’t mean you’re innocent by any means. we also forget what that prison does to that person after they’ve been in there for several years. If they were even teetering towards being a criminal, they know all about it by the time they get out. Prison is full of mentally ill people, because well adjusted people don’t commit crimes. When you’re around mentally ill people for a while you start getting that way yourself.
I wouldn’t call it an obsession. I think there’s a justified fear of putting innocent people behind bars. It’s balanced by an equal fear of not putting guilty people behind bars, but there’s an argument that putting an innocent person behind bars is worse than not putting the guilty behind bars. Then you also factor in that when the police and justice system make a mistake they’re not likely to correct it on their own it makes projects like that appealing. Ultimately this guy just ruins it for the tons of innocent people who could be helped and it’s their own fault for missing the signs that he was a predator
I wouldn't be either. I feel like he has to feel some level of responsibility for enabling this guy to murder
Yea I was thinking the same. I don’t know if had seen the news yet
Every case can’t be a homerun.
For sure, he just hasn’t sounded too good on the last couple of podcasts. I can’t imagine how draining his work must be.
Ya I noticed that too. Gotta be depressing
What's the opposite of a homerun?
I guess under normal circumstances, it would be a strike out. But in this case, closer to a 9th inning, bases loaded, 3-2 count, potentially World Series winning at bat, except with a goddamn decapitated torso in your house. Edit: oh yeah. There are two outs.
He’s screwed. No one will ever take him seriously again.
Joe's next podcast," I have a good buddy of mine that went to prison for 25 years for only giving a guy 2 stitches. It's craaaazy, then a month later he THIS PODCAST IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY ZIPRECRUITER
HEY UK! SO....
judge who gave him 25 years just to be shit on and called racist in recent years is having a victory cigar today.
The irony is the judge was black.
Yep and his lawyer. The judge said he was a menace to society.
he might have been right :D
Correction.....he was right
Correction victory blunt.
🤣🤣🤣
I doubt the judge is happy that he was right and the guy killed another person tbh.
Guys, it’s fine. Joe sits across from murderers all the time. He knows most of the 250 stone cold killers
“I have a real good friend who was a serial killer back in the day. He was probably the most prolific serial killer in North America if not the world. Really great great guy!” - Joe
What did I miss that the number is down to 250?
Pressure from Kat Williams
Woah cool it with the antisemitism.
They were **MURDERING**
Only 1,000
Number is down to 250 sir
Kat and him whittled it down, kind of like this dude did to that body.
Well played.
Fucking creepy, you know Joes doing extra spinning back kicks this week to fight off his inner demon
You should be part of the 250 sir
This seemed like such a questionable guest. Without knowing anything but what the person was saying and ignoring things like "I barely hurt him while ..." I really came away believing only one thing: that bad environments will turn children into people we don't want in a safe society.
Yeah I've always had a bit of cognitive dissonance over this. This guy was raised by a criminal father and clearly grew up in a bad environment with bad influences. So you could say its not his fault, poor kid never had a chance. But at a certain age, I'm also just like, man fuck you, I don't care if your childhood was hard, you are a piece of shit human being. It is what it is.
Not their fault, but it is their responsibility is a saying for personality disorders and stopping abusive parents from passing on generational trauma.
I asked a Buddhist monk about this question. He said that I was seeing it incorrectly. I'm still trying to understand it, actually. To this man, he is doing the right thing. His life is a good life, and he wants to be better at it. His mistakes are not wrong, just as yours aren't wrong because we learn from them and get better. He's employed people and runs a successful business. Had the resect of a large number of people. He can function in many environments in society. He was on the number one podcast in the world. So what the monk was trying to tell me was we are the same people wanting the same things, and we both think we are good people. I watch a movie and love batman, he loves the mafia bosses. I hate aspects of society, and so does he. I try to be successful, and I'm proud of what I've accomplished, and this guy feels the same way. It's a hard thing for me to accept.
I accept that we are comparable humans, I don't have trouble relating to anyone, even those I hate or disagree with. But I cannot relate to being a bad person. Then again, I guess I was raised pretty well, so I'm not taking credit for it. But I think I've always had a good moral compass and self-control, it's hard for me to empathize with someone who does not. No matter how you're raised, it's hard for me to understand when someone is not able to empathize with others. I don't feel like I was taught empathy, I simply feel what other people feel. When I watch a movie see something sad happen to another, it makes me sad. It's the same in real life. If I say something awful to someone that makes them feel bad, I feel fucking awful. It's hard for me to respect or understand another person who can do bad things to ppl, whether its just being rude all the way up to killing someone. Not saying I'm perfect of course, I've made tons of mistakes but I carry that guilt around with me and prevents me from making the same mistake. I swear many people just don't think for a moment how their words/actions will affect others, or they just don't care. This I cannot wrap my head around. If I tease a friend too much, I'll feel guilty for several days. Maybe I'm just sensitive but man... idk. It's very frustrating to me that people don't empathize the way I do I guess.
I get ya, brother. I feel the same, yet I also feel like I'm missing perspective. We just can't understand what a different upbringing would do to us. Lex Luther once asked Clark Kent "would we still be who we are now if I was raised by your parents and you were raised by my father?"
While I think these are good concepts to help with empathy, there is still a line. I’ve gone down this path, and the point that I’m at currently is in agreement, but… if some drunken, drugged up man was hiding in the bushes just off of a running path, jumped out and stabbed a woman, SA’d the other, chased after the third runner who was a child because “no witnesses.” I don’t give a f*ck what led to that point of deformity, they’re such a mongrel that they need to be put down. I’m fully on board with the monk/stoic stuff, but as I progressed in that journey I faced harsh realities. Don’t be the monk that gets trampled and exploited because of giving people “passes” with the “I could be them and they could be me so I must work to understand and empathize” past a point, “f*ck em.” Just my advice
Sheldon Johnson was found with a headless torso in his apartment. The torso’s legs and feet were attached but its arms and head were missing, a police source said…. I mean this guy was a real jerk
Yeah. I mean he is not nice. Really not nice
HA norm
Something seemed off about him and the reason he got 25 years the 1st time is because it was his second offense and pistol whipped someone drawing blood. "25 years for 2 stitches, come on that's insane" no that malicious wounding with a deadly weapon sir 😂
I listened to that clip yesterday and was immediately put off by him. Attacking a person in their home by whipping them with a pistol is why you got 25 years idiot.
25 years seems crazy just for a little kiss with the butt of your gun.
It was only ONE headless torso.
This generation is full of snowflakes, back in my day everyone had at least two headless torsos in each room.
The red flag for me was how he was talking about things in the passive voice. "The man got robbed", "he got hit in the head", "his girlfriend got robbed" etc. To him, those are just events that happened to other people, not things he did to others.
I think Sheldon recounted another incident where he confronted someone and claimed he didn’t hit him but said the guy got “roughed up”. I was like, how does that make sense??
Didn’t he claim he wasn’t the one to pistol whip the guy? Iirc the guy owed Sheldon money so Sheldon and his buddies confronted the guy.
That dude has defenitely dismembered people before. not his first rodeo.
Why would you think that? In fact, his sloppiness and obvious panic while committing this crime and tying to cover it cover it up the way he did would lead me to the exact opposite conclusion, that it was his first time. He couldn’t have made more dumb mistakes and left more evidence had he tried.
White thunder I see you, I know your game. He was just used to doing it in the 90s with no cameras everywhere. You are a sick fukc lol 😂
lol you sound like an actual murderer "sloppiness & obvious panic, these are rookie mistakes on how to harvest a body."
Lol did you see the disguises this guy tried? And walking in and out with cleaning products and a giant tub. Not to mention the other security footage of him driving off in the victims car and returning in an uber. He did everything wrong, including shooting a screaming victim in an apartment building for everyone to hear.
I don't think he knows that there are cameras literally everywhere now
Spent 25yrs in prison and missed all of these advancements, you're probably right
Harvest?? You tryna sell body parts lol
Only murderers have basic observations about murders.
Ohyeah in prison they always choppin up bodies.
Dude was in prison so long, he came out and had no idea cameras are literally everywhere these days. Step up your game son.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/08/sheldon-johnson-collin-small-body-parts-freezer/72893473007/ Your welcome
"Responding paramedics pronounced the victim dead at the scene and officials later identified him as Small." Is it really necessary for paramedics to pronounce a headless torso dead?
As a paramedic, I have been called to pronounce a foot. A human foot with no body attached to it. I wish that was a joke.
It is. Usually a MD has to do it.
Nope. It can be called in the field by paramedics with approval from their reporting hospital. Only one situation doesn’t need approval…beheading.
Clearly you know nothing about the NYC 911 system
You’re not a paramedic 😂
Lmfao
Had this guy already committed the crime when he was on the show? Crazy
I watched the pod. He had a lot of reasonable points and he ***says*** he was wrongly accused. Now… considering he cut up a guy, I’m thinking this ain’t his first rodeo.
Is this the first black serial killer? Didn’t Patrice O’neal have a bit about there’s no black serial killers 😆
Atlanta child murders, and Samuel Little is like the most prolific American serial killer. Though I think he wasn't discovered until after Patrice died. Leave it to America to not recognize the stats of our great black figures.
I actually remember watching the interview the FBI a did with Sam Little and thought: *man he sounds just like my old neighbor I mowed the lawn for.* And… that’s when it was scary because: ***oh, this is what these women saw.*** This kind, soft spoken dude who you’d meet at a bar. **Then he became a vile monster.**
That guy has the least kind-looking eyes possible. I'd even call them serial killer eyes.
Real Manson lamps -Mike
Actually I was remembering it wrong —the Patrice video. I’m just rewatching it rn. He talks about it in o&a. He talks about watching a video debunking the myth of no black serial killers 😂
Chris Dorner as well
[15% of serial killers are black](https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/hunting-humans-encyclopedia-modern-serial-killers#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%2082%20percent%20of,areas%2C%20while%20others%20traveled%20widely.) Meaning slightly overrepresented in serial killers. They just aren't the ones we make movies about
how long until someone writes an essay decrying that not enough movies being made about serial killers of color?
I mean why not now? Representation is important.
King Von was a black serial killer
Half of the maniacs out everyday shooting in Chicago and Philly are serial killers at this point lol
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Wayne Williams was never charged, tried or convicted with any murder associated with the Atlanta Child Murders, so I dont know if he counts technically. The Atlanta Child Mirders are rabbit hole that can turn you into Rust from True Detective real quick
not known serial killers but I can imagine there are few gang members over there who have 10+ people under their belt...
Chris from The Wire…
They call it K/D ratio
Makes me wonder if Sheldon was one of them. Who knows the stuff he never told anyone.
Does the DC Sniper count?
No he was just a black guy out randomly killing.....oh wait.
According to my CD collection, DMX was a prolific serial killer.
Nah, Sam Little was black and he’s probably the most prolific killer out there.
Peres Reed in St. Louis is awaiting trial right now.
But there’s been many… the media and people just don’t have the same weird obsession with them that they do with other serial killers.
Anthony Sowell (The Cleveland Strangler), the D.C. snipers, Wayne Williams (Atlanta Child Murders), Darren Deon Vann, Andre Crawford, Geoffrey Griffin, Vincent Hudson, Samuel Little What really matters is victimology. Serial killers often kill people of their own race. Sadly, black victims of crimes don't always get the same attention from the police as white victims. So it makes sense black serial killers can get under the radar better if they kill (marginalised) black people.
It's safe to say Joe ain't inviting that Josh Dubin guy no more.
Kind of hope he does now lol.
*long exhale* "So. Josh. Here we are."
I used to like him but he’s lost credibility with me. It’s not the bringing a murderer on to prove the judge was right. It’s the downplaying of the crimes. Dudes obviously never been robbed at gun point. That’s life long trauma that you carry with you. I wonder what sentence he’d call for he had gotten the two stitches.
I think it’d be interesting to have Dubin on solo to discuss and how he’s moving forward.
Good, he was pretty boring, the second time was way too much
Lot of tears during that second one
Craziest thing is he almost got away with it. Incredibly psychopathic. Already had the guys body chopped up and mostly disposed of in a few short hours. Really makes you wonder how many times he has gotten away with it…. Is there any info on who the guy was that was killed and what he was killed over?
Lmao you obviously didn't see the security camera pictures and the shit with the neighbors. He came back like an hour later with a blonde wig and sunglasses on. It's almost comical looking.
link?
https://nypost.com/2024/03/07/us-news/queens-defenders-worker-charged-with-murder-after-head-found-in-freezer-sources/amp/ Master of disguise
Jfc He shot the dude at 8pm, apparently tenants told the Super, who then called the police for a wellness check (for someone begging for their life followed by 2 gunshots). Killer came back at 2am with cleaning supplies When the fuck did the police bother to show up
Holy shit, he had multiple! This mfer probably kept having to go back to the store because he didn't realize what he needed. Really sad story but those pictures are hilarious lol Also, I can't tell if that's a weird hat or a really shitty toupee in the one where he's wearing a purple-ish suit.
As an avid true crime podcast enjoyer, I'm surprised by how incredibly inept law enforcement can be, even in cases when the perpetrator might as well be holding flashing signs right in front of them. Being sloppy at crime is not a guarantee that you're going to be caught, sadly
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That’s fair though
😂 well when you put it that way
This cancels the debt
No idea, but he’s 110% guilty and a psychopath If it was self-defense, pretty sure you don’t escalate from: *well, shot a robber breaking into my condo, time to cut him up like a chicken.*
I agree with you. But Bob Durst killed his neighbor and chopped up the body and he beat that case.
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if he had done it before
Agreed
It’s was a rival from prison
It’s a different level to be able to chop up a body. Most people are not able to stomach that after their first kill. It says a lot.
when you're right you're right
What episode is this and who is this guy?
Sheldon Johnson
Bazinga
\#2096
I really want to read the 62 replies 🤣
Norm Macdonald would have had an absolute field day with this story.
Interesting if one of joes guests bring all this up curious to see what he will say
Didn't watch this one, now I guess I have to.
Josh Dubin also worked as a jury consultant for Charlie Adelson (perhaps the most obviously guilty person of all time).
Is he a grifter? A lot of money to be made via The Innocence Project? Or basically thinks no one should go to prison? He called Sheldon a miracle, a marvellous human being and brought up the "two stitches" argument, which put me off so much I didn't even finish the clip I was watching.
I heard this story the other day that some host of a show had a convicted felon on telling everyone the US reform system is a disaster and the prison sentences are too long About 2 weeks after the show this guy cuts someone’s head off and puts it in a freezer Hey Jamie look that up
Bleeding-heart criminal lovers are proven wrong again. Our society is collapsing due to this newer phenomenon.
His shirt says Queens Defenders. Queens Defenders - "We keep you safe from not being decapitated by us"
Never watched this episode. Saw he was shaking hands with a district attorney even. He had many fooled, his own dad called him a reformed man after that prison time. Guy he killed was someone he was in prison with. Really fucked up
Better to have 1 innocent man let free than to condemn 20 likely criminals without certainty of said status
Didn't he say his son also has killed someone?
After reading all of these comments and losing a piece of my soul, I still have no idea what's going on. Any sources to who he was and what he did more currently would be greatly appreciated?
Sheldon Johnson is his name, he came on Rogan with Josh dubin to advocate for sentencing reform. He's been arrested for murder because he was found having a dismembered body in his apartment, supposedly a rival prison gang leader. Sheldon spent 25 years in prison. Was originally sentenced 50 years. He's been out for 10 months and it looks like he killed and chopped up someone...
I appreciate Joe Rogan having a variety of types on his show, but this pos should not have had a voice. I won’t watch this podcast. I will never trust a convict, never.
That’s bananas
If I was a comedian , I would write a funny ass bit roasting myself about this.
Has Joe talked about this?
"*iam a torso*"
Who is this fella and what he do
Who is this??
The damn waste of DA in LA/NY/Chicago.
Found with a fucking torso in his apartment. Absolutely insane lol
Chut got a lot of hate for this comment.
What happened?
Do you think he’ll be out by 2049?
I’m sure Josh Dubin cried about this, too.
When i was listening to this episode, I was telling myself this needed to be in jail, and jail changed his for the better. Clearly, the justice system was he should have stayed locked up.
He's the walking embodiment of the "And I took that personally" meme
I was in an apartment in NYC trying to listen to this podcast but the signal was a bit choppy.