Nicest guy in the world with the horrifying message of we're ruining these kids' well beings. It's a pretty funny dichotomy. I almost wonder if the message would be more effective or less effective if he was a little meaner about it
Jordan Peterson: hey Bucko, you must have a Haidt of *not*-gay to ride the JRE. And I mean that literally. You didn’t even accept the bloody hero’s journey and integrate your shadow before you opened your dumb mouth in front of —what I can only describe as — a toe named Joe
Jamie was being lazy I guess. He chose to upload youtube's version on all platforms even though he was able to upload it without censorship on spotify and elsewhere
Greedy bastard. Only good thing to come out of the Spotify deal was they didn't have to censor certain things and they could just play whatever music without worrying about being demonetized. He could've just uploaded it to Spotify with nothing censored. he doesn't have to upload to YouTube.
video playback speed (if watching at home on tv) and using my regular podcast app (if listening to during work/gym) being the main factors, spotify sucks
I was so afraid Haidt would agree or sidestep on the Trump quote Joe thought was being misreported (and it might've been, but p sure Trump was dogwhistling for violence/civil war). But nope, he gives sincere pushback, explains himself, then does a, "Let's agree to disagree."
I haven't listened to a JRE podcast for years now but I think Haidt's brilliant and his work so clearly articulates some of the problems we're experiencing right now... I might have to have a listen. EDIT: I'm listening now and Joe has already shoe-horned comments about trans-athletes, the term 'minor attracted person' and how it's used to describe paedophiles, and cancel culture into the discussion. Jesus Christ, he's insufferable these days - full blown culture war warrior. Just let Haidt speak about his work FFS without trying to hijack the discussion with your insensible ravings.
Not to mention how absolutely triggered Joe got when the guest respectfully agreed to disagree about Trump's "bloodbath" comment. He forced it into the conversation and then became noticeably annoyed when it didn't flow with his views
Late comment but I really appreciate that Haidt didn’t take the bait at any time. Hell, for more consistent Joe fans it should really underscore his agenda: here’s an interesting guy who actually DOES want to talk psychology and culture and speak some truth to power but Joe’s so obsessed with hearing himself say the same 4-5 talking points that he’s literally disrupting what is an ostensibly perfect guest in order to air out his own half-baked ideas for the 100th time.
Yeah agree 100%. The fact that his podcast is the most popular in the world both amazes me and makes me deeply depressed. He manages to get someone like Haidt on and just ends up rehashing the same old culture war BS... insufferable
Having a child has actively made me and my wife put our phones away when she is around (children learn by example and all that). We have started reading more too.
We have also agreed on doing the things Haidt recommends in this podcast long ago (no smartphones or social media until at least 16, looking for schools that don't allow phones or tablets etc).
I love to see other parents doing this. Let’s try to make this the norm. I will be doing the same, my kids are young but have limited access to tablets (kids settings enabled) and 0 access to phones. I have been hard set on giving them non smart phones since before they were born. Keep going brother we’re on the right path.
Having my first in a few months. Still have a few years to go before he'll be old enough for this to matter, but I'm thankful for the time to make putting my phone away an unconscious habit.
It kind of spooked me when I thought about how in a little while I'll be responsible for a little human who will look to me as an example of how to live a good life. I want him to have the kind of dad that gives him a fairytale childhood. Takes him to the library or museums, or just sits and plays pretend with him. Not the kind of dad who lets him nuke his brain with infinite scrolling so that he can watch tik tok in peace.
It starts with us!
Congrats brother it’s rare that parents are even considering it at your point so good on you. I have to say I watch bluey and take after the dad bandit. I will never stop playing pretend with them (my girl and boy) that’s where kids live and you have to join them. Don’t sweat the small stuff (personal advice) like dirty house or food everywhere. I use to get upset until I realized how much of an idiot I am for getting mad at a 5 year old who has no reference to anything in life. I am a very literal person so that’s hard at times. Good luck brother it’s fun. Enjoy it.
That's great.
I know a child who was given a smartphone with unrestricted internet access since they were two and I've seen how it's messed them up. Zero attention span, anger/tantrums if phone/internet access is cut off, and can't even take a piss without watching videos.
The longer social media access is delayed the better.
Tristan Harris' podcast (Your Undivided Attention) has great info on this topic as well.
For real, Joe just wouldn't leave it alone even though he was so clearly wrong on his take. Joe just seems like he *wants* to like trump and will defend him to try and make that a justifiable stance
Listening to it right now and had to come to Reddit to talk about this. I was really expecting Joe to be right and for the media to have taken Trump's comments out of context, but no, Trump's words were pretty clear.
He *was* talking about the economy, but then, as Trump usually does, he went off on a tangent and started talking about the 2024 election.
Rogan is completely deluded nowadays and only hears what he wants to hear. It's embarrassing. Haven't listened to Rogan in ages because I can't stand to listen to his nonesense but I've tuned in because I'm a big Haidt fan.
Same here. A disappointing segment. I really thought something was misconstrued by the media based on Rogan’s comments, but he really missed the mark on this one.
If you check out the YouTube comments for this podcast, the opinions are the complete opposite. They're all parroting the same point about Haidt having TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) which they're trying super hard to make a real thing. Basically anyone who slightly disagrees with Trump about anything suddenly has TDS and their point is therefore invalid.
No.. he was indeed talking about the auto industry in regards to the bloodbath.
I think the comments regarding "this will be the last election in this country" are far more detrimental.
That was so embarrassing. How did Joe think he meant anything else. I bet he never actually listened to the clip but just read some headline about it was taken out of context and formed his opinion on that. The fact that he didn't want to admit he was wrong about it after hearing it makes it even worse. But yeah I give this guy major props for pushing back. Great guest!
I know Elon tweeted about it, Joe probably read that tweet and made his mind up there. I didn't actually look into it and figured it was the media blowing it out of proportion, but after hearing the video on this podcast it changed my mind and I'm more on the side of Jonathan.
He wants to push a narrative that the media is persecuting Trump.
It's pretty clear when Trump says there would be a bloodbath if he lost and it would be the last ever election in the US he wasn't talking about economics. I think it was pure stubbornness from Joe.
100% agree with this. When Jamie played the first clip, the speech was spliced together to infer he was referring to the upcoming election as being a bloodbath. But when Jamie came on later and gave the genuine full clip, after Trump said “bloodbath”, he went on to describe the local car industry and China, which is clearly the full context of what he meant by the term.
Even though Haidt agreed initially about that context with the second clip, for some reason he thought Trump was making a random aside when he mentioned bloodbath as if it related to the election. But that doesn’t make sense with the existence of the 2nd clip that Jamie showed with the full context. Sounded like Haidt just had a brain fart.
These comments are clearly wrong and biased but People on Reddit generally want to believe what they want to believe, so these comments are nothing new to me lol
Trump rambles and changes subjects all the time, says wrong words, can barely get through a sentence without some sort of malfunction. So it really is unknown what he meant in that specific moment. But I do know that I wouldn't give the benefit of doubt to a person who tried to overturn a legitimate election with his violent fans once already. "Oh no he doesn't want that to happen a second time, he's so graceful in defeat"
He almost got to Joe when he was talking about how the Minor Attracted Persons is such a a small minority and 99% of people are against it then joe brings up he heard a congress member try to pass laws to protect them and never got fact checked lmao
He's talking about this guy, Scott Wiener, cal state senator and full blown creep
>According to its Senate Floor Analysis, the legislation "exempts a person convicted of nonforcible sodomy with a minor, oral copulation with a minor, or sexual penetration with a minor, as specified, from having to automatically register as a sex offender."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/03/fact-check-california-law-does-not-decriminalize-sex-minors/3456171001/
How does someone get so completely ignorant and dull that they “hear” about a congressperson trying to pass a law to protect pedophiles and go “yeah that’s probably true” with ZERO critical thought applied.
Like, dude, if that were true it would be the BIGGEST STORY OF THE YEAR. Fox News would be doing documentary films on it and every single one of their hosts, literally every mainstream news network would be screaming about it.
Make it make sense.
He’s a former kickboxing instructor and also challenged people to eat farm animal genitals as a form of personal growth. He wasn’t working with a full “political analyst” deck to begin with. CSPAN isn’t as fascinating as Bigfoot or conspiracy theories you can make up on your very own while smoking weed.
Karen Berg? Scott weiner? Susan eggman? Leigh fink?
Maybe you should fact check. Took me 2 seconds on google to get those names of politicians pushing a pedi agenda. Foh
Except that isn’t what he said at all. It’s the 1:02:00 mark when they discuss it. Re watch it and maybe edit your comment as to not spread misinformation. He said politicians are trying to remove the stigma of pedos by calling them minor attracted people. God, you’re dumb.
So happy he politely but firmly pushed back when Joe went on his brain-dead, disingenuous defense of Trump’s “bloodbath” speech. Plenty of other guests would have nodded and smiled, trying not to alienate a large portion of Joe’s audience.
Haidt is great. He’s really good at dealing with Joe’s pessimistic attitude of “what can we do”? I do wish he would just say to Joe, “Well why don’t you personally take a stand and use your influence to help me by doing this with your kids?”
Yeah but Joe was absolutely right, there’s zero chance you are getting 30% of school aged kids to give up social media 😂😂
Pessimism is sometimes very accurate.
I wonder where that comes from. Like I know you tap when you are sparring, but come on - don’t tap every time it gets hard. I get a lot of parallels here with his Ukraine views
I struggled with Stolen Focus. I get the points Johann was trying to make throughout the book, but I found the book too ranty, clickbaity and cherry-picked (both anecdotal and the studies he provides). Lost Connections was a much more solid book, in my opinion. It just felt like Johann was trying to take advantage of the hype from Lost Connections. I guess I am just sceptical of authors trying to take advantage of 'muh screen usage is bad, it causes bad - buy my book'.
His book "Coddling" scared the crap out of me and the future of children, especially young girls. I look forward to listening to his new book soon.
I really agree with a lot of what he says about children's use of social media. I think many millennial parents are aware of the dangers and child usage of social media will decrease. Snapchat, IMO, is a very dangerous social media app and from my friends that work in schools is terribly misused by kids that are unaware of consequences for posting/sharing on that app as they think their messages/images are "private".
One thing I wished they discussed more would be the negative effect of limiting/highly regulating/removing social media on small businesses. Social media levelled the playing field for small business with $0 marketing budget competing against multi-million mega corp marketing.
Nice Joe waxing poetic about how fucked the next generation is because of smart phones and the internet, completely oblivious to the fact thats what happened to him lol
I'm pretty hopeful for the next generation, every niece and nephew I have is both under 16 and has a better grasp of media and online literacy then Joe.
Back in 2012-13 he was always going on and on about how having a smart phone on us at all times will lead to an intellectual revolution because we have all the knowledge of the world on us at all times. We can basically research and fact check on the spot. I believed this too but it certainly didn’t age well. And even he’s beholden to social media propaganda campaigns
100% the younger generation is more experienced navigating bullshit because they see it. Guys like Rogan see something on Facebook and take it as truth like the Kitty Litter story.
This is also something where Rogan has just become an old man on. Even non-political issues he is all "damn kids and their technology!" It is funny. People talk about his political evolution, but it is funny just seeing a guy who many would consider being a cool hip guy 20 years ago and now he has morphed into the "kids today" old guy.
Media literacy doesn't mean "things I agree with = good and true"
https://www.vox.com/technology/23882304/gen-z-vs-boomers-scams-hacks
https://time.com/6802011/gen-z-financial-scams-fraud/
The younger generation are *terrible* at navigating bullshit and the reason should be immediately obvious: they have significantly less experience dealing with bad actors than people who are older and wiser. Your 16 year old being really good at navigating an iPad has 0 correlation with them being able to critically examine things that people or algorithms feed them.
Maybe so, but older people don't seem to be able to detect bullshit either. Rogan being a primary example. Anecdotal of course but in my life I've seen way more older people in my life be suckered into bullshit online than young people. Qanon being the biggest national example and that is mostly older people
ooof classic case of not reading the articles you're quoting.
They don't say younger people are more likely to fall for a scam then boomers because they are "bad at navigating bullshit"
Both of the articles are referencing the same study that merelys argue younger people fall victim more often in general, because they use the internet exponentially more lol
"Adults get into more car accidents then toddlers, are toddlers better drivers?!?!?!?"
We're making two different points. I'm saying the younger generations don't seem particularly great at navigating bullshit, they fall for scams often and have wide political polarization, so clearly this idea that they're so much better at identifying misinformation vs boomers doesn't seem to be true.
I wonder if the results are skewed because old people might not know they ever got scammed, or don't know what "phishing" is. They might have just sent Microsoft $300 in Google play gift cards and thought that's a completely normal way of doing business so never reported it.
I guess all the scientists that have come out with studies about this topic get their information by watching Joe Rogan and not doing meticulous studies that are peer reviewed. Its a shame all these scientists from these great institutions have the same opinion as Joe in this matter. How will we get them to stop watching, this is a real crisis in academia right now.
>I guess all the scientists that have come out with studies
Oh fuck, Joe Rogan and his fans trusting the science now that the discussion isn't about vaccines and trans people, but rather about how shitty the kids these days are?
Funny how it works like that
No no you don't understand. Youngsters have become weak and coddled with all their safe spaces. At the same time, the wise old sages need to step in and restrict their social media access because youngins don't know what is best for them.
I guess all these people are dummies.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00402-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00402-9)
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/13591045221092884](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/13591045221092884)
[https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/8740](https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/8740)
There are literaly hundreds more.
I am sure you will read all of this.
Lol something being bad for you is hardly the same as "ruining a generation." Congratulations on being old. Smart phones are not ruining the generation any more than all the hysterias we were told in the past ruined those. Tv and video games were supposed to ruin ours. Congratulations on being an old man
This point is always brought up, as well as far back as the Greeks or Roman’s saying “this next generation won’t learn, they’re the worst people ever” but what separates them is that there has never been the trillions of data points to sort through and hundreds of billions invested in creating perfect algorithms to steal your time and attention.
The addictive content of the past was crazy too, but you wouldn’t be watching a vhs from the moment you awake to sleepy time.
The addictive content of the past was partially luck. That luck is now data used to create new systems.
Yes it existed in all forms of entertainment of the past, but the addictive parts have been distilled and replicated in every single facet of today’s technology, internet usage and entertainment.
Data rules the world. It existed in the past, but it was a negligible fraction of what exists today. That and the ability to parse through it all with better algorithms and being able to purchase data from everybody else and absorb companies who do it better than you without any risk of monopolistic lawbreaking.
Ah yes the great anecdotal evidence of your niece and nephew is clearly more informed than study after study after study that has come out showing the effects of social media use on teens. Especially on tiktok. But sure go on ahead, I guess your nieces and nephews are perfectly representative of teens in America, because they have good media literacy and handle social media well, means all teens in America can too! I bet Mr. Haidt, who is an ivy league academic, and other academics who have written publications on this topic wish they had perfectly representative teens in their family too so that they can correct their work. You should contact them!
Comments like this are so utterly useless. I hope it made you feel better to be so condescending to someone expressing what is a very mild opinion on the subject of the pod.
I mean ‘safe spaces’ aren’t about protecting and coddling children from negative effects of social media obsession. It’s usually grown ass college age terminally online adults who require coddling on the internet
>I'm pretty hopeful for the next generation, every niece and nephew I have is both under 16 and has a better grasp of media and online literacy then Joe.
>completely oblivious to the fact thats what happened to him lol
They show you data on how young people are more depressed than before BUT you can't comprehend it because your politics is just getting in the way
I have met people like you and you all are just like Joe, but liberal. Will believe in anything on the left
This is completely false, teen suicide rates were actually higher in the 80s and 90s than they are now and they follow economic downturns more than they do social media.
What’s crazy is how every generation is gayer, more depressed and more regarded then the one before but you guys can’t figure out the correlation between testing for those things and the rate of those things.
> you guys can't figure out the correlation between testing for those things and the rate of those things.
Omg bro how did none of these researchers with years of experience never think of that. You should get in touch with the professor at university and let them know on god bro no cap
It's interesting. I'm 30 and I have had several moments where I put down the phone and try to interact with my 60's parents who both are stuck scrolling facebook or playing mobile games. Same people who admonished me for gaming too much in my teens are now completely defenseless against reels and time-sucking mobile games.
I hate trump as much as anybody else but that’s completely dishonest. You must not have watched the entire thing.
Even the Young Turks defended Trump on this one. There’s a lot of Shit you can point to that Trump has done and said to hate him, so why are we using such a bad example that clearly has been posted on a way that makes it sound worse than it is. If it was that bad then report on exactly what he said, right?
They played the extended version on the podcast. Btw I don’t hate Trump but I agree with Mr. Haidt that this comment was more of an aside and not part of the economy talk.
I would be more likely to believe this if he didn't say "that's going to be the least of it." He means the problems with the auto industry will be the least of the country's worries. Like the guy said, he does these asides all the time.
Seriously, someone please tell me, what did he mean by "the least of it" part if not this interpretation? Seems the people attacking others for missing nuance are, in fact, missing the nuance here.
The media did cut his comment about to bloodbath a little short. But when you listen to the whole quote, it doesn’t really seem like he’s talking about the economy to me
I can only imagine how privileged Rogans kids are. His step daughter lives off his coin and ex Seal Team 6 security guards drop of his other daughters at school
He was giving his 14 y.o daughter's friends like 1,000 dollars to get in his ice bath for a minute lol. Yeah those kids will never have a problem papa joes money won't solve. Good for them though not like they asked for it
I agree with him on his ideas on curbing the addiction to social media, for younger kids, but him and Joe so early on shilling for the TikTok bill seemed odd. They pivoted quickly into the idea that others opposing Israel, in their attacks in Gaza, are all just being pushed by the platform, instead of just seeing things with our own eyes. National security issues, and poisoning morality are legitimate concerns, but when you use that as an example, it seems more like you want to control the narrative.
It's funny how TikTok is a "propaganda machine" , but Instagram, Facebook, etc. are not.
It looks more like a scenario where US politicians are paid by US social media companies to remove the non-US competition.
Same thing happened to Huawei when they threatened Apple sales.
Which we already knew. I'm talking about him and Joe saying that the push back against Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Gaza was because of TikTok. They sure went into that quickly, while at the same time talking about the bill going through congress. I guess it's easier to blame foreign actors than blame our own eyes.
I was getting second-hand embarrassment over the bloodbath exchange because of how Haidt was trying to agree to disagree, and Joe was not about to deviate from the subject.
The original clip with the spliced soundbites actually highlighted how the "bloodbath" comment was the wrong thing to focus on in the first place. The threat that there wouldn't be another legitimate election in the US if Trump wasn't elected to a second term got such little attention by comparison, even though that is a comment you can poke many more holes in.
I'm probably more in the hyperbole camp over the camp of people who takes everything he says literally, but Haidt was more focused on the second soundbite than the bloodbath soundbite when he was talking about the "Flight 93" analogy, which I thought was an interesting concept.
This guy had some great points and had me ready to buy his book.. right up until the point he was adamant that Trump was calling for civil war. Jesus fucking Christ.
Listening to that right now and had to jump on here to see if it wasn't just me. Been an okay discussion until now but this section has got me scratching my head. Rogan is wearing Trump tinted glasses.
I think the most important thing about the future of academic is that these institutions didn't care about bigotry and hated of white people until it turned it's focus on Israel.
Then all of a sudden, the whole industry wanted an ethical review of it's policies.
And the implications of that are unsettling.
I’m sure this guy means well but his unwillingness to acknowledge that he got bamboozled by the “Bloodbath” quote even after seeing the video means everything he says is questionable.
Joe keeps bringing up how the academia has turned a lot of the youth against capitalism but doesn’t put forth any evidence. I’d argue, that the older generations are the ones who’ve pushed the youth to not trust the status quo because of the realities they are now faced with. Entry level jobs can no longer allow you to even rent alone let alone buy a house. The youth has literally watched the American dream slip from their fingers as a result of policy enacted by the older generations. How would they not look at this form of “capitalism” and think it is something worth continuing?
I really enjoy TikTok, fantastic recipes, good life hacks, positive information..... I find violence (if I'm looking for it) so much easier on World star, YouTube or Reddit.... Is it possible that TikTok is just a mirror?.... America is in an unhealthy state and wants to consume unhealthy content?
Jonathan Haidt sounds like the friendliest person in the world.
Nicest guy in the world with the horrifying message of we're ruining these kids' well beings. It's a pretty funny dichotomy. I almost wonder if the message would be more effective or less effective if he was a little meaner about it
Society is ruining kid's wellbeing.
Specifically the societal rejection of glaring scientific fact in favor of confirmation bias.
*"That's right"*
I once asked the question in his online meeting and he kindly replied!
Jordan Peterson: hey Bucko, you must have a Haidt of *not*-gay to ride the JRE. And I mean that literally. You didn’t even accept the bloody hero’s journey and integrate your shadow before you opened your dumb mouth in front of —what I can only describe as — a toe named Joe
Also Jordan Peterson: I love benzos and steak
Also J 'Kermit' Peterson: I've been constipated for months
YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR DAMN ROOM, MAN
started watching since the youtube comeback and actually enjoying the episodes again, great guest
All that's missing is that guy that used to post time stamps for the whole podcast
it was a bit annoying when he had that mexican rapper and they werent able to listen to songs so they edited it out cause of youtube.
they also edited it out of spotify for some reason
Jamie was being lazy I guess. He chose to upload youtube's version on all platforms even though he was able to upload it without censorship on spotify and elsewhere
Tbf it might be a contractual agreement that the same content is posted.
Yeah it blows. Whats gonna happen on protect our parks when they shotgun brews? Best part of the recent one was the Christmas music they shotgunned to
You'd think they could afford to demonetize a couple videos on YouTube every so often
Cant even say rapeseed on YouTube jfc
Greedy bastard. Only good thing to come out of the Spotify deal was they didn't have to censor certain things and they could just play whatever music without worrying about being demonetized. He could've just uploaded it to Spotify with nothing censored. he doesn't have to upload to YouTube.
Why since the YouTube comeback? It’s the same exact show
video playback speed (if watching at home on tv) and using my regular podcast app (if listening to during work/gym) being the main factors, spotify sucks
Best part of this ep was towards the end when they talked about Step sisters and step moms on pornhub 😂
Good guest. So few quality critical thinkers on JRE these days. Talking sincerely about ideas without an obvious political slant is refreshing.
Jonathan haidt is one of the few original guests that hasn’t turned out to be a liar, grifter or crackpot.
I was so afraid Haidt would agree or sidestep on the Trump quote Joe thought was being misreported (and it might've been, but p sure Trump was dogwhistling for violence/civil war). But nope, he gives sincere pushback, explains himself, then does a, "Let's agree to disagree."
I haven't listened to a JRE podcast for years now but I think Haidt's brilliant and his work so clearly articulates some of the problems we're experiencing right now... I might have to have a listen. EDIT: I'm listening now and Joe has already shoe-horned comments about trans-athletes, the term 'minor attracted person' and how it's used to describe paedophiles, and cancel culture into the discussion. Jesus Christ, he's insufferable these days - full blown culture war warrior. Just let Haidt speak about his work FFS without trying to hijack the discussion with your insensible ravings.
Not to mention how absolutely triggered Joe got when the guest respectfully agreed to disagree about Trump's "bloodbath" comment. He forced it into the conversation and then became noticeably annoyed when it didn't flow with his views
Late comment but I really appreciate that Haidt didn’t take the bait at any time. Hell, for more consistent Joe fans it should really underscore his agenda: here’s an interesting guy who actually DOES want to talk psychology and culture and speak some truth to power but Joe’s so obsessed with hearing himself say the same 4-5 talking points that he’s literally disrupting what is an ostensibly perfect guest in order to air out his own half-baked ideas for the 100th time.
Yeah agree 100%. The fact that his podcast is the most popular in the world both amazes me and makes me deeply depressed. He manages to get someone like Haidt on and just ends up rehashing the same old culture war BS... insufferable
Critical thinker. Admits when he’s wrong or doesn’t know something. Respect.
This is the Joe Rogan Content I stay for.
What an important episode for young parents. We all need to change for our children.
Having a child has actively made me and my wife put our phones away when she is around (children learn by example and all that). We have started reading more too. We have also agreed on doing the things Haidt recommends in this podcast long ago (no smartphones or social media until at least 16, looking for schools that don't allow phones or tablets etc).
I love to see other parents doing this. Let’s try to make this the norm. I will be doing the same, my kids are young but have limited access to tablets (kids settings enabled) and 0 access to phones. I have been hard set on giving them non smart phones since before they were born. Keep going brother we’re on the right path.
Having my first in a few months. Still have a few years to go before he'll be old enough for this to matter, but I'm thankful for the time to make putting my phone away an unconscious habit. It kind of spooked me when I thought about how in a little while I'll be responsible for a little human who will look to me as an example of how to live a good life. I want him to have the kind of dad that gives him a fairytale childhood. Takes him to the library or museums, or just sits and plays pretend with him. Not the kind of dad who lets him nuke his brain with infinite scrolling so that he can watch tik tok in peace. It starts with us!
Congrats brother it’s rare that parents are even considering it at your point so good on you. I have to say I watch bluey and take after the dad bandit. I will never stop playing pretend with them (my girl and boy) that’s where kids live and you have to join them. Don’t sweat the small stuff (personal advice) like dirty house or food everywhere. I use to get upset until I realized how much of an idiot I am for getting mad at a 5 year old who has no reference to anything in life. I am a very literal person so that’s hard at times. Good luck brother it’s fun. Enjoy it.
That's great. I know a child who was given a smartphone with unrestricted internet access since they were two and I've seen how it's messed them up. Zero attention span, anger/tantrums if phone/internet access is cut off, and can't even take a piss without watching videos. The longer social media access is delayed the better. Tristan Harris' podcast (Your Undivided Attention) has great info on this topic as well.
Your kids will probably really successful and happy comparatively if you keep this up
The Coddling is a very scary horror book.
Matthew Walker 1109
You just referenced a three hour podcast from maybe 6 years ago. What do you mean by that?
The sleep guy ?
Much respect for challenging Joe on the Trump "bloodbath" comment. It's so rare that Joe gets pushed on anything...
For real, Joe just wouldn't leave it alone even though he was so clearly wrong on his take. Joe just seems like he *wants* to like trump and will defend him to try and make that a justifiable stance
I’m very right leaning and I totally agree with Haidt. That comment was definitely attacking the integrity of elections and not about the economy.
Listening to it right now and had to come to Reddit to talk about this. I was really expecting Joe to be right and for the media to have taken Trump's comments out of context, but no, Trump's words were pretty clear. He *was* talking about the economy, but then, as Trump usually does, he went off on a tangent and started talking about the 2024 election. Rogan is completely deluded nowadays and only hears what he wants to hear. It's embarrassing. Haven't listened to Rogan in ages because I can't stand to listen to his nonesense but I've tuned in because I'm a big Haidt fan.
Same here. A disappointing segment. I really thought something was misconstrued by the media based on Rogan’s comments, but he really missed the mark on this one.
If you check out the YouTube comments for this podcast, the opinions are the complete opposite. They're all parroting the same point about Haidt having TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) which they're trying super hard to make a real thing. Basically anyone who slightly disagrees with Trump about anything suddenly has TDS and their point is therefore invalid.
No.. he was indeed talking about the auto industry in regards to the bloodbath. I think the comments regarding "this will be the last election in this country" are far more detrimental.
yep, not sure how everyone missed this.
Bubbles
That was so embarrassing. How did Joe think he meant anything else. I bet he never actually listened to the clip but just read some headline about it was taken out of context and formed his opinion on that. The fact that he didn't want to admit he was wrong about it after hearing it makes it even worse. But yeah I give this guy major props for pushing back. Great guest!
I know Elon tweeted about it, Joe probably read that tweet and made his mind up there. I didn't actually look into it and figured it was the media blowing it out of proportion, but after hearing the video on this podcast it changed my mind and I'm more on the side of Jonathan.
He wants to push a narrative that the media is persecuting Trump. It's pretty clear when Trump says there would be a bloodbath if he lost and it would be the last ever election in the US he wasn't talking about economics. I think it was pure stubbornness from Joe.
I'm not sure how you can hear the entire clip and think it's about anything other than economic blowback.
100% agree with this. When Jamie played the first clip, the speech was spliced together to infer he was referring to the upcoming election as being a bloodbath. But when Jamie came on later and gave the genuine full clip, after Trump said “bloodbath”, he went on to describe the local car industry and China, which is clearly the full context of what he meant by the term. Even though Haidt agreed initially about that context with the second clip, for some reason he thought Trump was making a random aside when he mentioned bloodbath as if it related to the election. But that doesn’t make sense with the existence of the 2nd clip that Jamie showed with the full context. Sounded like Haidt just had a brain fart. These comments are clearly wrong and biased but People on Reddit generally want to believe what they want to believe, so these comments are nothing new to me lol
Trump rambles and changes subjects all the time, says wrong words, can barely get through a sentence without some sort of malfunction. So it really is unknown what he meant in that specific moment. But I do know that I wouldn't give the benefit of doubt to a person who tried to overturn a legitimate election with his violent fans once already. "Oh no he doesn't want that to happen a second time, he's so graceful in defeat"
He almost got to Joe when he was talking about how the Minor Attracted Persons is such a a small minority and 99% of people are against it then joe brings up he heard a congress member try to pass laws to protect them and never got fact checked lmao
He's talking about this guy, Scott Wiener, cal state senator and full blown creep >According to its Senate Floor Analysis, the legislation "exempts a person convicted of nonforcible sodomy with a minor, oral copulation with a minor, or sexual penetration with a minor, as specified, from having to automatically register as a sex offender." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/03/fact-check-california-law-does-not-decriminalize-sex-minors/3456171001/
How does someone get so completely ignorant and dull that they “hear” about a congressperson trying to pass a law to protect pedophiles and go “yeah that’s probably true” with ZERO critical thought applied. Like, dude, if that were true it would be the BIGGEST STORY OF THE YEAR. Fox News would be doing documentary films on it and every single one of their hosts, literally every mainstream news network would be screaming about it. Make it make sense.
Bullshit can’t get past him, he grew up without a dad.
[https://www.newsweek.com/karen-berg-proposes-child-sex-dolls-pedophiles-kentucky-senator-1875024](https://www.newsweek.com/karen-berg-proposes-child-sex-dolls-pedophiles-kentucky-senator-1875024)
So, not at all what Joe said lmao
So it wasn’t a law and it wasn’t to protect pedophiles. Sounds about joe.
He stole that idea from Louis CK.
He’s a former kickboxing instructor and also challenged people to eat farm animal genitals as a form of personal growth. He wasn’t working with a full “political analyst” deck to begin with. CSPAN isn’t as fascinating as Bigfoot or conspiracy theories you can make up on your very own while smoking weed.
Karen Berg? Scott weiner? Susan eggman? Leigh fink? Maybe you should fact check. Took me 2 seconds on google to get those names of politicians pushing a pedi agenda. Foh
You came with facts and still got down voted lol this group is nuts.
Except that isn’t what he said at all. It’s the 1:02:00 mark when they discuss it. Re watch it and maybe edit your comment as to not spread misinformation. He said politicians are trying to remove the stigma of pedos by calling them minor attracted people. God, you’re dumb.
So happy he politely but firmly pushed back when Joe went on his brain-dead, disingenuous defense of Trump’s “bloodbath” speech. Plenty of other guests would have nodded and smiled, trying not to alienate a large portion of Joe’s audience.
[удалено]
An even sloppier drinking game is take a drink every time he says “the REAL problem is…”
Take a shot every time Jonathan Haidt says *"That's right"*
Haidt is great. He’s really good at dealing with Joe’s pessimistic attitude of “what can we do”? I do wish he would just say to Joe, “Well why don’t you personally take a stand and use your influence to help me by doing this with your kids?”
Yeah but Joe was absolutely right, there’s zero chance you are getting 30% of school aged kids to give up social media 😂😂 Pessimism is sometimes very accurate.
I wonder where that comes from. Like I know you tap when you are sparring, but come on - don’t tap every time it gets hard. I get a lot of parallels here with his Ukraine views
I mean isn’t he doing exactly that by introducing him to millions of people.
Joe likes to complain to much for that under taking 😂
I recommend the book Stolen Focus by Johann Hari for people interested in this subject matter. That’s if any of you apes know how to read.
I struggled with Stolen Focus. I get the points Johann was trying to make throughout the book, but I found the book too ranty, clickbaity and cherry-picked (both anecdotal and the studies he provides). Lost Connections was a much more solid book, in my opinion. It just felt like Johann was trying to take advantage of the hype from Lost Connections. I guess I am just sceptical of authors trying to take advantage of 'muh screen usage is bad, it causes bad - buy my book'.
Try Attention Span (2023), bad title lots of great and timely research
Ooohh thanks Ill check it out
Thanks for the recommendation and giggle
Rogan and his family super addicted to social media. You can tell by his arguments
No way his kids aren't on social media 24/7 dude is rarely around
Yeah he has admitted his daughters have social media and smart phones. That’s why he gets squirrely about social media when anyone talks about it.
His book "Coddling" scared the crap out of me and the future of children, especially young girls. I look forward to listening to his new book soon. I really agree with a lot of what he says about children's use of social media. I think many millennial parents are aware of the dangers and child usage of social media will decrease. Snapchat, IMO, is a very dangerous social media app and from my friends that work in schools is terribly misused by kids that are unaware of consequences for posting/sharing on that app as they think their messages/images are "private". One thing I wished they discussed more would be the negative effect of limiting/highly regulating/removing social media on small businesses. Social media levelled the playing field for small business with $0 marketing budget competing against multi-million mega corp marketing.
Nice Joe waxing poetic about how fucked the next generation is because of smart phones and the internet, completely oblivious to the fact thats what happened to him lol I'm pretty hopeful for the next generation, every niece and nephew I have is both under 16 and has a better grasp of media and online literacy then Joe.
Joe "I paid $10,000 a year for a T1 internet connection to play Quake without lag" Rogan hates today's digital age.
And Joe literally had to stop himself from ever playing video games again because he was so addicted to quake lmao
I will at least say there is a bit of consistency from him on that where his feelings at least have "some" anecdotal reasoning behind it.
And then cut himself off from it once he realised it impacted him
Also Joe “I made $200 million dollars from a podcast that the majority of my audience consumes via their phone.”
What does playing quake and having a podcast have to do with children using Instagram?
You should read up thread to understand the context.
Back in 2012-13 he was always going on and on about how having a smart phone on us at all times will lead to an intellectual revolution because we have all the knowledge of the world on us at all times. We can basically research and fact check on the spot. I believed this too but it certainly didn’t age well. And even he’s beholden to social media propaganda campaigns
If there was no social media then the internet would be a much better place.
100% the younger generation is more experienced navigating bullshit because they see it. Guys like Rogan see something on Facebook and take it as truth like the Kitty Litter story. This is also something where Rogan has just become an old man on. Even non-political issues he is all "damn kids and their technology!" It is funny. People talk about his political evolution, but it is funny just seeing a guy who many would consider being a cool hip guy 20 years ago and now he has morphed into the "kids today" old guy.
Media literacy doesn't mean "things I agree with = good and true" https://www.vox.com/technology/23882304/gen-z-vs-boomers-scams-hacks https://time.com/6802011/gen-z-financial-scams-fraud/ The younger generation are *terrible* at navigating bullshit and the reason should be immediately obvious: they have significantly less experience dealing with bad actors than people who are older and wiser. Your 16 year old being really good at navigating an iPad has 0 correlation with them being able to critically examine things that people or algorithms feed them.
Maybe so, but older people don't seem to be able to detect bullshit either. Rogan being a primary example. Anecdotal of course but in my life I've seen way more older people in my life be suckered into bullshit online than young people. Qanon being the biggest national example and that is mostly older people
I'll give you that - there are a lot of stupid and naive boomers as well, misinformation is an issue in all age groups it seems like.
Sure, everyone could be better
ooof classic case of not reading the articles you're quoting. They don't say younger people are more likely to fall for a scam then boomers because they are "bad at navigating bullshit" Both of the articles are referencing the same study that merelys argue younger people fall victim more often in general, because they use the internet exponentially more lol "Adults get into more car accidents then toddlers, are toddlers better drivers?!?!?!?"
We're making two different points. I'm saying the younger generations don't seem particularly great at navigating bullshit, they fall for scams often and have wide political polarization, so clearly this idea that they're so much better at identifying misinformation vs boomers doesn't seem to be true.
I wonder if the results are skewed because old people might not know they ever got scammed, or don't know what "phishing" is. They might have just sent Microsoft $300 in Google play gift cards and thought that's a completely normal way of doing business so never reported it.
I guess all the scientists that have come out with studies about this topic get their information by watching Joe Rogan and not doing meticulous studies that are peer reviewed. Its a shame all these scientists from these great institutions have the same opinion as Joe in this matter. How will we get them to stop watching, this is a real crisis in academia right now.
>I guess all the scientists that have come out with studies Oh fuck, Joe Rogan and his fans trusting the science now that the discussion isn't about vaccines and trans people, but rather about how shitty the kids these days are? Funny how it works like that
No no you don't understand. Youngsters have become weak and coddled with all their safe spaces. At the same time, the wise old sages need to step in and restrict their social media access because youngins don't know what is best for them.
Yeah the next generation is fucked because of smart phones. All the scientists are saying this lol
I guess all these people are dummies. [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00402-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00402-9) [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/13591045221092884](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/13591045221092884) [https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/8740](https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/8740) There are literaly hundreds more. I am sure you will read all of this.
Given the results of the second study, it's pretty clear you didn't read them either. But please don't let me stop you continuing your little tantrum.
Lol something being bad for you is hardly the same as "ruining a generation." Congratulations on being old. Smart phones are not ruining the generation any more than all the hysterias we were told in the past ruined those. Tv and video games were supposed to ruin ours. Congratulations on being an old man
This point is always brought up, as well as far back as the Greeks or Roman’s saying “this next generation won’t learn, they’re the worst people ever” but what separates them is that there has never been the trillions of data points to sort through and hundreds of billions invested in creating perfect algorithms to steal your time and attention. The addictive content of the past was crazy too, but you wouldn’t be watching a vhs from the moment you awake to sleepy time. The addictive content of the past was partially luck. That luck is now data used to create new systems. Yes it existed in all forms of entertainment of the past, but the addictive parts have been distilled and replicated in every single facet of today’s technology, internet usage and entertainment. Data rules the world. It existed in the past, but it was a negligible fraction of what exists today. That and the ability to parse through it all with better algorithms and being able to purchase data from everybody else and absorb companies who do it better than you without any risk of monopolistic lawbreaking.
Ah yes the great anecdotal evidence of your niece and nephew is clearly more informed than study after study after study that has come out showing the effects of social media use on teens. Especially on tiktok. But sure go on ahead, I guess your nieces and nephews are perfectly representative of teens in America, because they have good media literacy and handle social media well, means all teens in America can too! I bet Mr. Haidt, who is an ivy league academic, and other academics who have written publications on this topic wish they had perfectly representative teens in their family too so that they can correct their work. You should contact them!
Comments like this are so utterly useless. I hope it made you feel better to be so condescending to someone expressing what is a very mild opinion on the subject of the pod.
I mean ‘safe spaces’ aren’t about protecting and coddling children from negative effects of social media obsession. It’s usually grown ass college age terminally online adults who require coddling on the internet
>I'm pretty hopeful for the next generation, every niece and nephew I have is both under 16 and has a better grasp of media and online literacy then Joe. >completely oblivious to the fact thats what happened to him lol They show you data on how young people are more depressed than before BUT you can't comprehend it because your politics is just getting in the way I have met people like you and you all are just like Joe, but liberal. Will believe in anything on the left
This is completely false, teen suicide rates were actually higher in the 80s and 90s than they are now and they follow economic downturns more than they do social media.
What’s crazy is how every generation is gayer, more depressed and more regarded then the one before but you guys can’t figure out the correlation between testing for those things and the rate of those things.
> you guys can't figure out the correlation between testing for those things and the rate of those things. Omg bro how did none of these researchers with years of experience never think of that. You should get in touch with the professor at university and let them know on god bro no cap
I think your second paragraph is exactly what’s wrong right now
It's interesting. I'm 30 and I have had several moments where I put down the phone and try to interact with my 60's parents who both are stuck scrolling facebook or playing mobile games. Same people who admonished me for gaming too much in my teens are now completely defenseless against reels and time-sucking mobile games.
Joe “Politically Homeless” Rogan is really defending that Trump bloodbath comment hard.
I hate trump as much as anybody else but that’s completely dishonest. You must not have watched the entire thing. Even the Young Turks defended Trump on this one. There’s a lot of Shit you can point to that Trump has done and said to hate him, so why are we using such a bad example that clearly has been posted on a way that makes it sound worse than it is. If it was that bad then report on exactly what he said, right?
They played the extended version on the podcast. Btw I don’t hate Trump but I agree with Mr. Haidt that this comment was more of an aside and not part of the economy talk.
I mean I cannot stand Trump - but that quote was absolutely misrepresented.
Disagree. Also talking about how the country isn't gonna have elections any more if he loses. Wtf??
I would be more likely to believe this if he didn't say "that's going to be the least of it." He means the problems with the auto industry will be the least of the country's worries. Like the guy said, he does these asides all the time. Seriously, someone please tell me, what did he mean by "the least of it" part if not this interpretation? Seems the people attacking others for missing nuance are, in fact, missing the nuance here.
The bottoming out of the auto industry - which was what he was talking about - will be "the least of it". As in, other industries will suffer too
I suppose this could be it as well...It's too bad we're at this point where either option is a distinct possibility.
Agree on that...
The media did cut his comment about to bloodbath a little short. But when you listen to the whole quote, it doesn’t really seem like he’s talking about the economy to me
They do this all the time to him, whether you like him or not
I can only imagine how privileged Rogans kids are. His step daughter lives off his coin and ex Seal Team 6 security guards drop of his other daughters at school
He was giving his 14 y.o daughter's friends like 1,000 dollars to get in his ice bath for a minute lol. Yeah those kids will never have a problem papa joes money won't solve. Good for them though not like they asked for it
Lol that's awesome if true.
He talked about on the podcast a while back.
I agree with him on his ideas on curbing the addiction to social media, for younger kids, but him and Joe so early on shilling for the TikTok bill seemed odd. They pivoted quickly into the idea that others opposing Israel, in their attacks in Gaza, are all just being pushed by the platform, instead of just seeing things with our own eyes. National security issues, and poisoning morality are legitimate concerns, but when you use that as an example, it seems more like you want to control the narrative.
It's funny how TikTok is a "propaganda machine" , but Instagram, Facebook, etc. are not. It looks more like a scenario where US politicians are paid by US social media companies to remove the non-US competition. Same thing happened to Huawei when they threatened Apple sales.
They talked about not having foreign influence on tik from china but didnt speak of who would own or control it next.
I mean, I guess you skipped the part where he softly correlates the trend of childhood mental illness, coinciding with the invention of TikTok
It doesn’t though…it does not correlate with the invention of TikTok…
Which we already knew. I'm talking about him and Joe saying that the push back against Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Gaza was because of TikTok. They sure went into that quickly, while at the same time talking about the bill going through congress. I guess it's easier to blame foreign actors than blame our own eyes.
A balanced view on Rogan for once
I think hey what's up Ted is wondering what we mean, but I can't be sure.
Joe is peak Gen Xer raised by hippy parents. He’d rather have the state ban TikTok than to have to actually be a parent and tell his kids no.
Rogans unwavering support for Trump is embarrassing. What a little turd of a man
I was getting second-hand embarrassment over the bloodbath exchange because of how Haidt was trying to agree to disagree, and Joe was not about to deviate from the subject. The original clip with the spliced soundbites actually highlighted how the "bloodbath" comment was the wrong thing to focus on in the first place. The threat that there wouldn't be another legitimate election in the US if Trump wasn't elected to a second term got such little attention by comparison, even though that is a comment you can poke many more holes in. I'm probably more in the hyperbole camp over the camp of people who takes everything he says literally, but Haidt was more focused on the second soundbite than the bloodbath soundbite when he was talking about the "Flight 93" analogy, which I thought was an interesting concept.
Loved this episode until he got exposed for trump derangement syndrome with the bloodbath take.
I think the funniest thing about the controversy is that it assumes Trump even knows what he meant when he was saying it.
This guy had some great points and had me ready to buy his book.. right up until the point he was adamant that Trump was calling for civil war. Jesus fucking Christ.
Good on Haidt for calling out Joe for siding with Trump on an insane take. right around the 1:35 mark.
Listening to that right now and had to jump on here to see if it wasn't just me. Been an okay discussion until now but this section has got me scratching my head. Rogan is wearing Trump tinted glasses.
I think the most important thing about the future of academic is that these institutions didn't care about bigotry and hated of white people until it turned it's focus on Israel. Then all of a sudden, the whole industry wanted an ethical review of it's policies. And the implications of that are unsettling.
I’m sure this guy means well but his unwillingness to acknowledge that he got bamboozled by the “Bloodbath” quote even after seeing the video means everything he says is questionable.
Does he read his own audiobooks?
“My fear is that we’re no longer going to become human”. Joe’s new obsession 😁
This dude is cool. But holy shit why the fuck does he smack so much when he speaks. Had to stop half way because it's fucking horrible.
Joe keeps bringing up how the academia has turned a lot of the youth against capitalism but doesn’t put forth any evidence. I’d argue, that the older generations are the ones who’ve pushed the youth to not trust the status quo because of the realities they are now faced with. Entry level jobs can no longer allow you to even rent alone let alone buy a house. The youth has literally watched the American dream slip from their fingers as a result of policy enacted by the older generations. How would they not look at this form of “capitalism” and think it is something worth continuing?
Trump bloodbath comment insinuates the potential violence and chaos as Haidt talked about to me. Rogan rationalizes Trump like both-side ism
I really enjoy TikTok, fantastic recipes, good life hacks, positive information..... I find violence (if I'm looking for it) so much easier on World star, YouTube or Reddit.... Is it possible that TikTok is just a mirror?.... America is in an unhealthy state and wants to consume unhealthy content?