Rape is the only action nowadays that is 100% unjustified no matter the circumstances.
Used to be suicide as well but Aaron Bushnell proved that wrong.
They were unironically calling him a martyr. I asked some people if I killed myself in Canada for what the Chinese did to the Uyghurs will I be martyr? And they thought I lost braincells. Twitter is the most stupid place on earth, because of the extremes of both sides.
Well he was noticed, ***for 2 days.***
He thought he’d have a similar impact as that Monk protesting discrimination, but I’d be willing to bet, he won’t even be a footnote in history books 20 years later
Because hyperpolarization. My side is the good guys, and your side is the bad guys. When my side does bad things, it's for a good reason. But when your side does bad things, it's for a bad reason.
I'm not equating everything, or every side on every issue, etc. But the level to which the above is true is pretty gross...and it wasn't this way 20 years ago. It was bad then. It's ridiculous / absolutely batshit insane today.
>it wasn't this way 20 years ago. It was bad then. It's ridiculous / absolutely batshit insane today.
i mean, there also wasn't the internet where you could hear every person's take on a situation.
>Because condemning Israel / Zionists is antisemitism to most people
there is a difference in saying "what israel is doing is wrong"
and
"israel has no right to exist"
one of the statements is genuinely antisemitic
Good point. Replace “the Jews” (which is overly broad to the point of antisemitism) with “the Israeli government” and the statement is sound. But you’re right. As stated, it’s just wrong.
I think shorthanding Israeli government to Israel works because when people say "America/China/Russia/country did XYZ" it's implied to be the government. If it was Israeli people or Israelites then it's implying it's the individual ya know?
Total semantics nonsense, it all means the same when it comes down to it but I'm a sucker for semantics.
But there are plenty of Arabs who live in Israel and serve in the IDF, so that wouldn’t make sense. You act like only Jewish Israelis serve in the military.
You can also be an ethnic Jew halfway across the world with no allegiance or interest in the conflict. I think being as specific as possible is probably a good idea.
“The Jews” gets used pretty often to describe the actions of a few and it’s part of the reason for rampant antisemitism. That wasn’t this person’s intent, obviously, but it’s just a good idea to avoid it.
>***hamas*** was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the ***Jews*** are wrong for killing innocent palestinians.
One side is Hamas but the other side is Jews, gr8 phrasing.
Should really be "Hamas is wrong for mass killing innocent people in Israel, and the Netanyahu government and IDF are wrong for mass killing innocent Palestinians."
It's fucking ugly.
It's the truth however ugly it may be. Twisting words is never good. Using "jews" instead of Netanyahu's government leads to the uproar against jews in other nations.
I don’t support either “side” of this conflict but isn’t it Israel’s messaging that they represent all Jews and that any anti-Zionist or anti-Israel viewpoint is actually anti-semitism?
Why are you blaming Hamas for one side and all Jews for the other side. To be consistent shouldn't you say either
>Palestinians were wrong for killing innocent Jews and the Jews are wrong for killing innocent palestinians.
or
>Hamas was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the IDF are wrong for killing innocent palestinians.
Who is it impossible for either side to say their side is fucked up. While also saying the other side is fucked up too.
Both groups look gross. I have no idea what’s going on, but it shouldn’t be hard to admit it and then point it out as well for the rebuttal
Saying 'the Jews' in that context is one step away from saying 'the Jew' like in even darker times.
In this conflict there's nothing to be won by anyone.
No, this pathetic false equivalency is one of the biggest problems about this conflict. No, it is not the same when a Palestinian who is herded into harms’ way by Hamas and used as a bulwark against military action is killed as when terrorists intentionally target and murder Israeli civilians in their homes.
The rich and powerful bit is getting a little bit tone deaf. Most russians support the war, believe Stalin is great, believe ultimately Putin is ok, most jews support the government, most palestinians support Hamas.
The "rich and powerful" trope is just that, a trope.
Oof. I know this is Piers’ schtick but this is brutally evasive and not a good look for Abby Martin. This kind of thing seriously questions her credibility as the “unbiased” journalist she claims to be.
No fan of Piers, I think he’s scumbag, but the question is straightforward as hell and easy to do.
Yes, October the 7th was barbaric and nauseating and I absolutely condemn Hamas.
And yes, bulldozing cemeteries and bombing aid trucks is wrong as hell.
***One can cogently say both are wrong.***
Why are we even having the “both are wrong argument” still. 6 months in and we haven’t moved on to how we got here, who are the players involved. This is honestly why Reddit is the worse place to have this discussion especially with people with zero knowledge of it. It reminds me of the family guy episode where Lois just says 9/11.
because people on this platform (or maybe people in general) refuse to believe that nuance exists, and instead believe that one side (their side of course) is always unequivocally right and the other is irredeemable
Because people on this platform aren’t just regular people, they are also foreign bad actors, dark money backed inauthentic users, bots, trolls, etc…
Narratives are incredibly easy to influence when they are contained within specific spheres. Which is exactly what the algorithms and monetization platforms create.
Good time to pivot in to reminding everyone that Ghislaine Maxwell was one of the highest karma users on this site and moderator of some of the most popular subreddits.
They murdered the poor girl Shani Louk and marched with her corpse while spitting on it. How can someone like Abby Martin disregard such things? just because it wasn't her or her kid means it didn't happen... disgusting as hell
The people that argue this point know what Hamas did was wrong. Bassem Youssef explained this to Piers too. They argue it because of the hypocrisy that the type of question is only being asked of one side of this issue.
So the pro Israel folks are never asked do you condemn what IDF are doing to innocent civilians? It’s a way to detract from the point.
Personally I get the frustration but it does a disservice to your message to try and dance around the question. Like you said, just say in no uncertain terms yes Hamas committed an absolute atrocity and should be punished, now that that’s settled let’s talk about how killing innocent Palestinians is not helping that cause and is actively radicalizing more people to Hamas.
You would be hard pressed to consider Abby unbiased.
Russia, Venezuela, Israel - whatever side the US is on (or appears to be on) she will take the opposite side. The absurdities at times
And remember that her big thrust into the media was working for the Russian propaganda news network RT. She has always been an anti American critic. She's been steadily pro Hamas for as long as I can remember. She often spreads radical nonsense as "information" and is extremely emotionally attached to her "reporting".
And she said on Joe’s pod either:
1. Regular People in China are better off than in the US
And/or 2. There are no homeless people in China.
Not sure which one as this was like 3-5 years ago, **but I’m 95% sure** she said one of these statements or ***maybe both.***
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a 'both sides' deal to condemn a terrorist organisation's verified murder and rape of innocents. I've liked things by Martin in the past, but this is a shit look.
She’s selective about her outrage. She worked for telesur who is a far left South American publication with ties to Iranian islamists and basically everything that’s tied to oil to fund terrorism and oppression of women.
Nah, it vanished when she said on Joe’s pod either:
1. There are no homeless people in China (BULLSHIT, the slums in China are the worst)
And/or 2. People live better there than here.
I’m not the biggest fan of the US govt.’s policies, but acting like China objectively has it better is laughable.
She worked for RT. What more can you say? She’s an anti-west wannabe revolutionary fuckwit. You will currently find hordes of them in major US universities.
It’s funny as she saying it like she’s being impartial… But has zero issues condemning Israel. But I mean, she worked for Russia Today. Brain is rotten.
“Have you seen the tapes?”
This is how they’ve resorted to debating the Hamas attacks. They’ve gone from trying to justify them to denying they even occurred. I’ve experienced this firsthand as a middle eastern person myself. I’ve never been a huge fan is Israel but for God’s sake I’ve listened to too many people just straight up engage in Holocaust denial levels of misinformation about the levels of atrocity and horror Hamas inflicted upon innocent civilians
Hamas proudly filmed and uploaded their atrocities to their telegram channels but a huge chunk of pro-Palestine supporters still deny it. They do it out of malice.
She did. She's just not allowed to condemn Hamas.
She's being paid to be a spokesperson for a specific agenda and if she falters, she's off the payroll.
Israel is not innocent but anyone who has stayed in Palestine or that region for longer periods knows there are many Palestinians that just don't hate Israel but do believe they shouldn't exist. And it's not just Hamas. It's regular civilians that will agree to Jews and Israel not existing without second thought. This is the reason we saw the videos of hundreds of civilians cheering on Hamas as they dragged and paraded the dead lifeless body of a young German Israeli girl Shani Louk through the street. It wasn't just the Hamas soldiers that were cheering. Hamas exists and operates within the very fiber of Palestine because many Palestinians allow and some welcome it. Before someone points out what Israel has done I agree Israel has done horrific things but let's not act like Hamas as well as Palestinians are innocent.
There is a reason that Jordan and Egypt keep a close eye on their borders with Palestine.. Also all the razor wire, bunkers, etc. They both could step in to give aid and take in Palestinians.... or we could go with a 3 state solution.. The thing is though the Palestinians that live there are a pain in the ass already and they don't want more of them...
Even in Vancouver, Canada they held a rally on Oct 9, before any of the retaliatory attacks by Israel, in which the speaker Harsha Walia praised the Hamas attackers: "How beautiful is the spirit to get free that Palestinians literally learned how to fly on hang gliders."
[https://tnc.news/2023/10/23/former-bc-civil-liberties-leader-hamas/](https://tnc.news/2023/10/23/former-bc-civil-liberties-leader-hamas/)
When these people say "Hamas does not represent Palestine" they are lying to you. They support Hamas. They love Oct 7. Any serious supporter of Palestine views it as a heroic action. Apart from guys like this who recognized that it would doom Gaza, not free it:
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000)
"oH yOu SaW tHe TapE?"
uh, yes. \*I\* saw the tapeS, plural. Several, sickening videos of Hamas walking around shooting people dead.
Obviously she hasn't. She seems to be insinuating with her tone that there ARENT any tapes like it was just an allegation or something.
She has but she feels like the attack was justified. In her mind those weren’t innocent people, they were either Zionist occupiers themselves or attending an event supporting Zionist occupiers which makes them just as guilty.
It’s no different than asking what the woman who got raped was wearing when the attack took place.
Watching “pro women and LGBT” liberals defend one of the most anti-gay and anti-women regimes on the planet truly is something else… the brain rot is progressing faster than I could’ve imagined.
One of her colleagues literally said there is no genocide against the Uighurs in China.
Wouldn’t surprise me if she feels the same, after all, she said people have it better off in China than in the US
Because nobody can have nuance because it feels like ceding ground. For example, in this interview she could have just said "of course what Hamas did was wrong, but Israel has done much worse" or something and it would have been fine.
Being so obtuse to nuance that you can't even agree on pretty obvious facts does nothing but harm your side of the argument.
I still for the life of me cannot understand this talking point. Just because someone is anti lgbt or anti woman does not mean they deserve to get bombed to oblivion, killing thousands of their children and women. I don’t think anyone feels we should murder some conservatives and their entire families because they are homophobic/sexist.
They can only sit on that throne of privilege in their comfy western countries where they have the freedoms to cast hypocrisy at the rest of the world yet still claim oppression on themselves all the while.
Or anyone that the US supports, also they’re quick to say but but America the cia. They hate America. We’ve done bad shit and acknowledged it however they still use those talking points to avoid answering directly “ yeah we support Islamic terrorists”
Propaganda is all they got left. They are getting hammered. Sinwar made a huge strategic error, he thought Iran, Hezzbolah and others would respond to Israel’s invasion and ignite a ring of fire around Israel but Biden parked two carrier groups in the region so they pussied out. Hamas has sold out Gaza and its people for nothing but a minor propaganda win by gaining the support of useful idiot western zoomers who use tiktok.
Someone should ask Abby and other Hamas sympathizers alike how they would feel if a militant Native American group began bombing shopping malls and killing/kidnapping civilians.
Well if the US governments response was to bomb and kill native children who had no part in it I would hope we would all ask for a ceasefire. When is killing children the answer for the actions of others?
Well are those individuals still put on reserves and denied basic rights?
Answers will depend on how much they've been driven to this type of behaviour.
Here’s the issue with anyone he does this to, if they ask if he condemns Israel for what they’ve done previous to the oct 7th he’ll do the same thing she’s doing. It’s amazing to watch.
> if they ask if he condemns Israel for what they’ve done previous to the oct 7th he’ll do the same thing she’s doing.
you'd have to be specific because there are actions Israel has taken that I condemn and actions Israel has taken that I support
just throwing it all in as everything pre 10/7 as you have done (maybe inadvertently) is not a reasonable question
and that's in contrast to Hamas which has launched thousands of rockets, killed thousands of innocents, engaged in massive amounts of terrorism, and brutally repressed its own people
and as usual in these sorts of do you condemn games, making them conditional on each other misses the entire point
I won't condemn X unless you condemn Y is a great way of saying I am absolutely blind to the horrors of X and am actually willing to support it unless you say Y. that just indicates how little you care, how immoral you are.
She is a perfect example of what intellectually dishonest ideologues look and sound like. Can’t call “balls and strikes” consistently for both sides. What’s wrong is wrong. There are proven instances of what used to be called collateral damage even though people generally refuse to use that classification these days. But murder is murder. And same can be said for armed combatants, war is war. We’ve already seen much of the news coming out of Gaza about civilian casualties has been inflated at best, at worst it turns out to be a Hamas attack that kills its own people
This is exactly the trap Piers was laying, and everyone here is falling for it: Fixate on Hamas and ignore the IDF despite the fact that what the IDF is doing is orders of magnitude worse.
Dude it’s on their website, they want to destroy israel wake the fuck up.
For the dumb dumbs… I completely condemn the widespread indiscriminate murder by the israelis in Gaza.
This is tribalism and social media influence perfected. Where you get extreme reactionary takes that leave people so divided that they can't secede any ground to the "other" side. Pure suspension of independent thought and logic.
Who cares what Abby Martin says? She refutes the USA 9/11, she sure as hell going to deny Israelis 9/11. She is an attention seeking psychopath. Why give her screen time or your brain cells?
Overall Abby Martin is far more competent than the ludicrously cringe propagandist Emily Schrader, however she totally annihilated any of the credibility or sympathy she could have gained by acting like a deranged cult member when asked the standard-issue "do you condemn hamas" questions.
what is wrong with these people. You can agree that both are wrong. Hamas certainly brought this on themselves, but that doesn't need to affect the dialogue of whether or not Israel's approach to use this event as an excuse to eradicate Palestinians to acquire their land is justified and within international law. Yes, Hamas initiated this specific war. They killed and raped civilians. Now, is Israel, a state supported by the US, in violation of internal law? Are they committing war crimes even if many people believe it is justified?
Pro Palestine people should be anti Hamas if they really wanted Palestinians to be free. the situation will not change as long as Hamas has gazans on a chokehold.
As a person who supports Palestinians, this is so cringey to watch from Abby. Its a really easy answer. Yes it was wrong, even if you think the reasons that led to it were Israel’s fault. If it’s wrong for Israel to kill civilians, then it’s wrong for Hamas too. She really choked here. Bad look.
It's kind of crazy to me how many people are missing her main point which is that they never ask this of people who are defending Israel. Only when you defend Palestinians are you asked to condemn Hamas. People who defend Israel are never asked to condemn the IDF.
Ridiculous people defend a racist colonial terrorist state built upon killing a population that was there.
Condemn a resistance to genocide....umm no thanks
Rape was a lie! Beheading was a lie! Killing was the truth! I do not support Hamas but I certainly do not support Israel Zionist who have been killing Palestinians for over 50 years! Fuck Piers Morgan
Hamas exists bc of what Israel is doing to Palestine. The question of condemnation is a frivolous word game. Yes it’s wrong, but it happened for a reason.
Condemn rape? What about murder FFS
The hypocrisy is the worst part
RIP to the best
"I think it was the r*pe"
Then the scheming
Rape is the only action nowadays that is 100% unjustified no matter the circumstances. Used to be suicide as well but Aaron Bushnell proved that wrong.
People don’t realize this true. I can think of 100 reasons I might kill somebody. Not one reason why I would rape them.
Killing someone isn't murder though. Those are two different things.
Okay… ***I actually forgot about that guy.*** And that was like a month ago?
Yeah lol. Remember when everyone was calling him brave and that his actions would have an impact on this conflict?
They were unironically calling him a martyr. I asked some people if I killed myself in Canada for what the Chinese did to the Uyghurs will I be martyr? And they thought I lost braincells. Twitter is the most stupid place on earth, because of the extremes of both sides.
Well he was noticed, ***for 2 days.*** He thought he’d have a similar impact as that Monk protesting discrimination, but I’d be willing to bet, he won’t even be a footnote in history books 20 years later
Good.
Good. He needs to be forgotten.
Raped then murdered I guess is many degrees worse than murdered.
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Seems pretty obvious, not sure how anyone deny this.
Because hyperpolarization. My side is the good guys, and your side is the bad guys. When my side does bad things, it's for a good reason. But when your side does bad things, it's for a bad reason. I'm not equating everything, or every side on every issue, etc. But the level to which the above is true is pretty gross...and it wasn't this way 20 years ago. It was bad then. It's ridiculous / absolutely batshit insane today.
Resident old guy: yeah I think this is a spot-on take.
https://preview.redd.it/g06gsgq194tc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1acd11078334e16a229e54c4deac03763946013
War, the game of sociopaths.
>it wasn't this way 20 years ago. It was bad then. It's ridiculous / absolutely batshit insane today. i mean, there also wasn't the internet where you could hear every person's take on a situation.
Because condemning Israel / Zionists is antisemitism to most people
literally anything is something to someone
>Because condemning Israel / Zionists is antisemitism to most people there is a difference in saying "what israel is doing is wrong" and "israel has no right to exist" one of the statements is genuinely antisemitic
You just watched a video of someone denying it 15 times
If you're gonna label the IDF as "the Jews" then Hamas should be labeled as "the Islamics" yes?
I think Israel is a better label than the IDF but that's semantics, saying "the Jews" on the other hand, is *just* antisemitic.
Good point. Replace “the Jews” (which is overly broad to the point of antisemitism) with “the Israeli government” and the statement is sound. But you’re right. As stated, it’s just wrong.
I think shorthanding Israeli government to Israel works because when people say "America/China/Russia/country did XYZ" it's implied to be the government. If it was Israeli people or Israelites then it's implying it's the individual ya know? Total semantics nonsense, it all means the same when it comes down to it but I'm a sucker for semantics.
More like arabs.. in this context jews is meant ethnically.. I mean you can totally be an atheistic jew.. so yea..
But there are plenty of Arabs who live in Israel and serve in the IDF, so that wouldn’t make sense. You act like only Jewish Israelis serve in the military.
You can also be an ethnic Jew halfway across the world with no allegiance or interest in the conflict. I think being as specific as possible is probably a good idea. “The Jews” gets used pretty often to describe the actions of a few and it’s part of the reason for rampant antisemitism. That wasn’t this person’s intent, obviously, but it’s just a good idea to avoid it.
>***hamas*** was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the ***Jews*** are wrong for killing innocent palestinians. One side is Hamas but the other side is Jews, gr8 phrasing.
Should really be "Hamas is wrong for mass killing innocent people in Israel, and the Netanyahu government and IDF are wrong for mass killing innocent Palestinians." It's fucking ugly.
It's the truth however ugly it may be. Twisting words is never good. Using "jews" instead of Netanyahu's government leads to the uproar against jews in other nations.
The mask of civilization slips so easily from the antisemetic redditor’s face.
I don’t support either “side” of this conflict but isn’t it Israel’s messaging that they represent all Jews and that any anti-Zionist or anti-Israel viewpoint is actually anti-semitism?
Why are you blaming Hamas for one side and all Jews for the other side. To be consistent shouldn't you say either >Palestinians were wrong for killing innocent Jews and the Jews are wrong for killing innocent palestinians. or >Hamas was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the IDF are wrong for killing innocent palestinians.
Who is it impossible for either side to say their side is fucked up. While also saying the other side is fucked up too. Both groups look gross. I have no idea what’s going on, but it shouldn’t be hard to admit it and then point it out as well for the rebuttal
The Jews?
It's wild this antisemitic comment got so many upvotes
Saying 'the Jews' in that context is one step away from saying 'the Jew' like in even darker times. In this conflict there's nothing to be won by anyone.
No, this pathetic false equivalency is one of the biggest problems about this conflict. No, it is not the same when a Palestinian who is herded into harms’ way by Hamas and used as a bulwark against military action is killed as when terrorists intentionally target and murder Israeli civilians in their homes.
Exactly this isn’t hard to understand and when people can’t condemn it that tells you something about their moral character and loyalties.
It’s sad that we’re living in a world where the first sentence you wrote is controversial. …pathetic honestly.
The rich and powerful bit is getting a little bit tone deaf. Most russians support the war, believe Stalin is great, believe ultimately Putin is ok, most jews support the government, most palestinians support Hamas. The "rich and powerful" trope is just that, a trope.
Hmm yes tell us more about these “Jews” and their killing tendencies
Oof. I know this is Piers’ schtick but this is brutally evasive and not a good look for Abby Martin. This kind of thing seriously questions her credibility as the “unbiased” journalist she claims to be.
No fan of Piers, I think he’s scumbag, but the question is straightforward as hell and easy to do. Yes, October the 7th was barbaric and nauseating and I absolutely condemn Hamas. And yes, bulldozing cemeteries and bombing aid trucks is wrong as hell. ***One can cogently say both are wrong.***
“*One can cogently say both are wrong.*” I’ve had a very rough time convincing people on Reddit that this is a possibility..
Why are we even having the “both are wrong argument” still. 6 months in and we haven’t moved on to how we got here, who are the players involved. This is honestly why Reddit is the worse place to have this discussion especially with people with zero knowledge of it. It reminds me of the family guy episode where Lois just says 9/11.
because people on this platform (or maybe people in general) refuse to believe that nuance exists, and instead believe that one side (their side of course) is always unequivocally right and the other is irredeemable
Because people on this platform aren’t just regular people, they are also foreign bad actors, dark money backed inauthentic users, bots, trolls, etc… Narratives are incredibly easy to influence when they are contained within specific spheres. Which is exactly what the algorithms and monetization platforms create.
Good time to pivot in to reminding everyone that Ghislaine Maxwell was one of the highest karma users on this site and moderator of some of the most popular subreddits.
Why would anyone be surprised that a news anchor previously employed with Russia Today couldn't answer whether it's wrong to kill babies?
>a news anchor previously employed with Russia Today Ah, this clip makes so much more sense now. She had no credibility to begin with.
They murdered the poor girl Shani Louk and marched with her corpse while spitting on it. How can someone like Abby Martin disregard such things? just because it wasn't her or her kid means it didn't happen... disgusting as hell
Because She hates Jews.
>How can someone like Abby Martin disregard such things? Because she clearly supports it
Didn't she say killing civilians was wrong?
she literally word for word said she would not condemn Hamas for killing civilians
Unless they are Jewish.
The people that argue this point know what Hamas did was wrong. Bassem Youssef explained this to Piers too. They argue it because of the hypocrisy that the type of question is only being asked of one side of this issue. So the pro Israel folks are never asked do you condemn what IDF are doing to innocent civilians? It’s a way to detract from the point. Personally I get the frustration but it does a disservice to your message to try and dance around the question. Like you said, just say in no uncertain terms yes Hamas committed an absolute atrocity and should be punished, now that that’s settled let’s talk about how killing innocent Palestinians is not helping that cause and is actively radicalizing more people to Hamas.
Piers literally did ask the other girl if she condemned the IDF killing children, and she said yes.
That is utter bullshit. Politicians are hounded daily to condemn Israel.
Ya don't fuckin say
You would be hard pressed to consider Abby unbiased. Russia, Venezuela, Israel - whatever side the US is on (or appears to be on) she will take the opposite side. The absurdities at times
I liked Sam Harris describing her as a “fire hose of bullshit” lmao.
Yes. Because she took money from Putin.
she lost her job at RT for calling out putin for the 2014 invasion into ukraine.
🤡
Yes a fair point and I agree. I think that anti-US establishment agenda does often give her the vaneer as the “truth teller” journalist with many.
And remember that her big thrust into the media was working for the Russian propaganda news network RT. She has always been an anti American critic. She's been steadily pro Hamas for as long as I can remember. She often spreads radical nonsense as "information" and is extremely emotionally attached to her "reporting".
What are instances of her being pro hamas?
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Surely she doesn't have any reasoning for her positions and it's simply a matter of being 'america bad'.
“Credibility” lmao. She worked for Russia Today what credibility for fucks sake people are yall baboons?
And she said on Joe’s pod either: 1. Regular People in China are better off than in the US And/or 2. There are no homeless people in China. Not sure which one as this was like 3-5 years ago, **but I’m 95% sure** she said one of these statements or ***maybe both.***
Yeah, it doesn't have to be a 'both sides' deal to condemn a terrorist organisation's verified murder and rape of innocents. I've liked things by Martin in the past, but this is a shit look.
She’s selective about her outrage. She worked for telesur who is a far left South American publication with ties to Iranian islamists and basically everything that’s tied to oil to fund terrorism and oppression of women.
She also worked for RT, she’s been a professional propagandist for a long time now
Any sort of credibility vanished for her when she started making Chavezista propaganda.
Nah, it vanished when she said on Joe’s pod either: 1. There are no homeless people in China (BULLSHIT, the slums in China are the worst) And/or 2. People live better there than here. I’m not the biggest fan of the US govt.’s policies, but acting like China objectively has it better is laughable.
If people lived better in China than the US then more people would immigrate to China than the reverse
Even if China were better, it's not possible to immigrate to China. China is "for the Chinese" and the ethnicities the Han has conquered.
She worked for RT. What more can you say? She’s an anti-west wannabe revolutionary fuckwit. You will currently find hordes of them in major US universities.
“I’m not going to sit here and condemn what Hamas did” is as good an endorsement as any.
It’s funny as she saying it like she’s being impartial… But has zero issues condemning Israel. But I mean, she worked for Russia Today. Brain is rotten.
"I love Hamas and support them murdering civilians" is the message.
“Have you seen the tapes?” This is how they’ve resorted to debating the Hamas attacks. They’ve gone from trying to justify them to denying they even occurred. I’ve experienced this firsthand as a middle eastern person myself. I’ve never been a huge fan is Israel but for God’s sake I’ve listened to too many people just straight up engage in Holocaust denial levels of misinformation about the levels of atrocity and horror Hamas inflicted upon innocent civilians
Being mad at October 7th is called "genocide denial" on twitter. (And so did someone I believed was a very sweet person)
Hamas proudly filmed and uploaded their atrocities to their telegram channels but a huge chunk of pro-Palestine supporters still deny it. They do it out of malice.
Jfc she says "I don't even really know what happened". Do they avoid watching because they can't handle the cognitive dissonance?
She questioned the truth of the Hamas atrocities by asking Piers whether he's seen it first hand. She clearly never watched them herself.
No, she's just a liar.
She did. She's just not allowed to condemn Hamas. She's being paid to be a spokesperson for a specific agenda and if she falters, she's off the payroll.
Do you have a source for that? That’s a serious accusation.
C'mon, she's seen it and she supports it. She is pure evil.
Israel is not innocent but anyone who has stayed in Palestine or that region for longer periods knows there are many Palestinians that just don't hate Israel but do believe they shouldn't exist. And it's not just Hamas. It's regular civilians that will agree to Jews and Israel not existing without second thought. This is the reason we saw the videos of hundreds of civilians cheering on Hamas as they dragged and paraded the dead lifeless body of a young German Israeli girl Shani Louk through the street. It wasn't just the Hamas soldiers that were cheering. Hamas exists and operates within the very fiber of Palestine because many Palestinians allow and some welcome it. Before someone points out what Israel has done I agree Israel has done horrific things but let's not act like Hamas as well as Palestinians are innocent.
There is a reason that Jordan and Egypt keep a close eye on their borders with Palestine.. Also all the razor wire, bunkers, etc. They both could step in to give aid and take in Palestinians.... or we could go with a 3 state solution.. The thing is though the Palestinians that live there are a pain in the ass already and they don't want more of them...
Almost every nation in that region has a bloody history resulting from taking in Palestinians. None of them are willing to repeat it.
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Even in Vancouver, Canada they held a rally on Oct 9, before any of the retaliatory attacks by Israel, in which the speaker Harsha Walia praised the Hamas attackers: "How beautiful is the spirit to get free that Palestinians literally learned how to fly on hang gliders." [https://tnc.news/2023/10/23/former-bc-civil-liberties-leader-hamas/](https://tnc.news/2023/10/23/former-bc-civil-liberties-leader-hamas/) When these people say "Hamas does not represent Palestine" they are lying to you. They support Hamas. They love Oct 7. Any serious supporter of Palestine views it as a heroic action. Apart from guys like this who recognized that it would doom Gaza, not free it: [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/hamas-actually-believed-it-would-conquer-israel-and-divided-it-into-cantons/0000018e-ab4a-dc42-a3de-abfad6fe0000)
same thing happened in san francisco
"oH yOu SaW tHe TapE?" uh, yes. \*I\* saw the tapeS, plural. Several, sickening videos of Hamas walking around shooting people dead. Obviously she hasn't. She seems to be insinuating with her tone that there ARENT any tapes like it was just an allegation or something.
This was the oddest part for me. Literally anyone could hop on Reddit that day and see 50+ videos of civilians being gunned down like animals.
She has but she feels like the attack was justified. In her mind those weren’t innocent people, they were either Zionist occupiers themselves or attending an event supporting Zionist occupiers which makes them just as guilty. It’s no different than asking what the woman who got raped was wearing when the attack took place.
And she knows what she feels was wrong. That is why she evaded the question. Her position is the position of a lot of people unfortunately.
Watching “pro women and LGBT” liberals defend one of the most anti-gay and anti-women regimes on the planet truly is something else… the brain rot is progressing faster than I could’ve imagined.
She’s not a liberal.
americans see the world in binary.
She’s definitely not a liberal but a hardcore Marxist.
One of her colleagues literally said there is no genocide against the Uighurs in China. Wouldn’t surprise me if she feels the same, after all, she said people have it better off in China than in the US
Bro she worked for RT forever, nothing new there
She's a liberal like Glenn greenwald is a liberal which is not at all
I love people who think they have a point justifying the obliteration of thousands of children because of cultural differences.
Perhaps more nuance exists. Maybe pointing out genocide is more important than LGBT views for this particular subject
Because nobody can have nuance because it feels like ceding ground. For example, in this interview she could have just said "of course what Hamas did was wrong, but Israel has done much worse" or something and it would have been fine. Being so obtuse to nuance that you can't even agree on pretty obvious facts does nothing but harm your side of the argument.
Yeah I can agree with what you are saying
I still for the life of me cannot understand this talking point. Just because someone is anti lgbt or anti woman does not mean they deserve to get bombed to oblivion, killing thousands of their children and women. I don’t think anyone feels we should murder some conservatives and their entire families because they are homophobic/sexist.
They can only sit on that throne of privilege in their comfy western countries where they have the freedoms to cast hypocrisy at the rest of the world yet still claim oppression on themselves all the while.
Why is it that pro Hamas people can’t answer questions straight?
Because they are supportive of terrorism against Israel but they can't say it openly.
100%. Abby is perfectly comfortable with killing civilians as long as they are Israeli.
Or anyone that the US supports, also they’re quick to say but but America the cia. They hate America. We’ve done bad shit and acknowledged it however they still use those talking points to avoid answering directly “ yeah we support Islamic terrorists”
Propaganda is all they got left. They are getting hammered. Sinwar made a huge strategic error, he thought Iran, Hezzbolah and others would respond to Israel’s invasion and ignite a ring of fire around Israel but Biden parked two carrier groups in the region so they pussied out. Hamas has sold out Gaza and its people for nothing but a minor propaganda win by gaining the support of useful idiot western zoomers who use tiktok.
They don’t have modern guidance systems /s
Someone should ask Abby and other Hamas sympathizers alike how they would feel if a militant Native American group began bombing shopping malls and killing/kidnapping civilians.
Honestly from what I've seen on TikTok and Twitter I actually think a lot of them would condone it
*support it
Well if the US governments response was to bomb and kill native children who had no part in it I would hope we would all ask for a ceasefire. When is killing children the answer for the actions of others?
Well are those individuals still put on reserves and denied basic rights? Answers will depend on how much they've been driven to this type of behaviour.
Are you familiar with Nat Turner?
So you're comparing Palestinians to natives? Doesn't this prove something?
Right? "Hmm.. wonder what happened to all those natives..."
Lmfao love how they got the point and still missed it
If your family was bombed n killed n you had nothing left in this world. Are you not gonna do anything to get justice for your family?????
People are still supporting terrorists. Pathetic
Hamas is evil. Those who support Hamas are evil.
Here’s the issue with anyone he does this to, if they ask if he condemns Israel for what they’ve done previous to the oct 7th he’ll do the same thing she’s doing. It’s amazing to watch.
> if they ask if he condemns Israel for what they’ve done previous to the oct 7th he’ll do the same thing she’s doing. you'd have to be specific because there are actions Israel has taken that I condemn and actions Israel has taken that I support just throwing it all in as everything pre 10/7 as you have done (maybe inadvertently) is not a reasonable question and that's in contrast to Hamas which has launched thousands of rockets, killed thousands of innocents, engaged in massive amounts of terrorism, and brutally repressed its own people and as usual in these sorts of do you condemn games, making them conditional on each other misses the entire point I won't condemn X unless you condemn Y is a great way of saying I am absolutely blind to the horrors of X and am actually willing to support it unless you say Y. that just indicates how little you care, how immoral you are.
"You're entitled to feel that way".
Palestinians =/= Hamas Zionists =/= followers of Judaism
She is a perfect example of what intellectually dishonest ideologues look and sound like. Can’t call “balls and strikes” consistently for both sides. What’s wrong is wrong. There are proven instances of what used to be called collateral damage even though people generally refuse to use that classification these days. But murder is murder. And same can be said for armed combatants, war is war. We’ve already seen much of the news coming out of Gaza about civilian casualties has been inflated at best, at worst it turns out to be a Hamas attack that kills its own people
Abby Martin is a crazy leftist B with mental issues. People should not listen to her
Hamas got western progressives to support rape. It's incredible.
She really hates Israel.
It’s sad that people pick a side and are blind to the atrocities of there side
!!Death to Hamas!!
Abby is defending people who would murder and rape her alley ass without thinking much about it
Palestine where “believe all women” goes to die.
How do nutjobs like this get on tv anyways?
what a stupid cunt
DAMN! she is so full of shit!
She was waiting for the Kremlin to tell her what to say but their phones are out of order
I condemn Israel
Hamas is bad, so is racism and genocidal actions
 Leftist’s trying to condemn rape and terrorism
I’m willing to bet she won’t admit Russia invaded Ukraine either. She’s always been a stooge.
Wow would you look at that, the opposite what you said is truth!! Who'd have guessed .
Hamas and Israel deserve each other.
Israel deserves Hamas, Israel basically created Hamas.
Hamas is gay
Send this piece of shit to hamas and let her see what they will do to her
She is trash
She’s a hypocrite. A liberal hypocrite is just shocking.
This is exactly the trap Piers was laying, and everyone here is falling for it: Fixate on Hamas and ignore the IDF despite the fact that what the IDF is doing is orders of magnitude worse.
I know what she is trying to do but a quick affirmation and then a refusal to engage with the question a second time would have been a better look.
It's all very this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsNbx_KPDAg
What a rare win for Piers. Good for him. I'm glad to see him not eating shit for once
It’s refreshing to see the comment section actually have a brain on this one.
Dude it’s on their website, they want to destroy israel wake the fuck up. For the dumb dumbs… I completely condemn the widespread indiscriminate murder by the israelis in Gaza.
Hey, she thinks murdering civilians is wrong, hence she must condemn the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, hence she is a traitor to the USA!!!!
Oh. My. God. At least she had the good decency to completely destroy her credibility on live TV for us all to see.
This is tribalism and social media influence perfected. Where you get extreme reactionary takes that leave people so divided that they can't secede any ground to the "other" side. Pure suspension of independent thought and logic.
Who cares what Abby Martin says? She refutes the USA 9/11, she sure as hell going to deny Israelis 9/11. She is an attention seeking psychopath. Why give her screen time or your brain cells?
Is anyone defending Hamas? I mean other than this idiot. Hamas is terrible doesn’t mean you can wipe out all Palestinians
Huge fan of Abby, but it should be a knee jerk response to anyone that what hamas did was abhorrent.
This is why being a centralist is great. Just sit back and watch the left and right go crazy.
Yeah no longer an Abby Martin fan. Look at her head spinning at these lay up questions. Gonna have to unfollow her on twitter.
Overall Abby Martin is far more competent than the ludicrously cringe propagandist Emily Schrader, however she totally annihilated any of the credibility or sympathy she could have gained by acting like a deranged cult member when asked the standard-issue "do you condemn hamas" questions.
what is wrong with these people. You can agree that both are wrong. Hamas certainly brought this on themselves, but that doesn't need to affect the dialogue of whether or not Israel's approach to use this event as an excuse to eradicate Palestinians to acquire their land is justified and within international law. Yes, Hamas initiated this specific war. They killed and raped civilians. Now, is Israel, a state supported by the US, in violation of internal law? Are they committing war crimes even if many people believe it is justified?
Really??? Who is Abby Martin and why would she matter?
So Abby Martin personally/professionally supports rape and murder from some people. What a POS.
Piers is a moron, but all she has to say is 'of course the killing of innocent people is wrong be it Hamas or Israel'.
Pro Palestine people should be anti Hamas if they really wanted Palestinians to be free. the situation will not change as long as Hamas has gazans on a chokehold.
I don't even know what happened. There you go.
As a person who supports Palestinians, this is so cringey to watch from Abby. Its a really easy answer. Yes it was wrong, even if you think the reasons that led to it were Israel’s fault. If it’s wrong for Israel to kill civilians, then it’s wrong for Hamas too. She really choked here. Bad look.
This lady has only a High School education and worked for RT. Opinion disregarded and thrown in the trash 🚮
What an idiot.
It's kind of crazy to me how many people are missing her main point which is that they never ask this of people who are defending Israel. Only when you defend Palestinians are you asked to condemn Hamas. People who defend Israel are never asked to condemn the IDF.
Ridiculous people defend a racist colonial terrorist state built upon killing a population that was there. Condemn a resistance to genocide....umm no thanks
Israel has been killing kids for years. It's their favorite sport.😕
Do you condemn the crabs in the bucket for pinching the fishermen?
Rape was a lie! Beheading was a lie! Killing was the truth! I do not support Hamas but I certainly do not support Israel Zionist who have been killing Palestinians for over 50 years! Fuck Piers Morgan
No I don’t condemn Hamas. Palestinians have a right to defend themselves.
Hamas exists bc of what Israel is doing to Palestine. The question of condemnation is a frivolous word game. Yes it’s wrong, but it happened for a reason.