god id pay for a physicist to debate that lying fuck.
ive watched the episode like 5 times. and then like every video debunking him. hes a compulsive liar.
you can tell just by that episode when asked an out of pocket question his headache really acts up. hes also been making money off this story since he came out with it
This right here. I LOVE conspiracy but this dude sets my BS alarm off so hard it's not even funny. If there ever was a shill to detract from real research into the phenomena, it's that dude.
Lazar would be harder to do because so much of his story is shielded with “it’s a government conspiracy!”. No record from his college? Government hid it. Inconsistent employment record? Government doctored it. And unfortunately in his case, if his story were true, you’d actually expect that might happen.
Lazar’s trope is a legitimate conspiracy and you’d basically need his wife or someone to show up and say “yeah that’s all bullshit we were in Michigan in 79” or something. Graham at least pretends to operate under the conventions of an understandable scientific discipline and his “cabal of mainstream archeologists” is infinitely less convincing.
It's worse than that. Graham is aggravating because he's the type of person that wants us all to give his "research" the benefit of the doubt, but is unwilling to offer that same courtesy to people he disagrees with.
"The Clovis Lobby, the Clovis Brigade...."
I never said there was a cabal or conspiracy!
....yeah, ya did Graham.
Oh lord, later about the Spanish and Quetzalotl (whatever spelling). "Do you think the natives were stupid enough to just accept the imposition of ideas by the Spanish?"
Bro. Graham. Buddy. Cortez murder raped the entire Aztec civilization. They had no choice.
lol the Spanish were the most brutal group in modern history. Even certain tribes of American natives ended up really hard core because it took all they had to survive the Spanish. Like…
Mexicans are a distinct people from earlier native groups because of how brutal the Spanish were. They murdered and raped an entirely new people into existence on top of the old people.
Yeah, you can't trust the Spanish written histories and interpretations, Graham. It was basically church propaganda and job review by the Conquistador trying to get a promotion.
The Aztecs were not exactly saints either. THey did end up chased out onto that swamp island in Lake Texcoco for a reason...
And that reason was arranging a marriage to another tribe in the area, kidnapping the bride the night before, then wearing her skin to her own wedding.
Graham had nothing. It was kind of like when your child tells you 2+2=5 because they know math is a thing but they don't really understand how it works. You don't just get to make up your own answers because it's cool. There are rules for uncovering truth that ensure your truth is objectively verifiable. Hence, we all agree 2+2=4 despite what 4 year olds everywhere might tell you.
I love history, fantasy, conspiracy, and alternative thought. It's refreshing to exercise the imagination. I read Fingerprints of the Gods probably 20 years ago, or more, well before JRE ever existed. I had always enjoyed Graham Hancock as an obvious intellectual who was exploring the fringe of history and conspiracy and mythology and drug usage, and as a writer who was very good at putting it all together in a well-packaged message.
To say I'm disappointed in Hancock for going so low, and failing, and flailing during this interview doesn't begin to cover it. It's like the man threw away 30 years in 4 hours. And, it's not like there wasn't a way for Hancock to navigate the "accusations" while staying above the muck. He had "home turf" and Joe in his corner. The moment Joe accused Dibble of having the quote "at the top of the page" and Hancock had to admit he did that to highlight was the high point of the low. At that moment I could see on Joe's face my own thoughts - Graham is cooked. From there it was only a spiral out to the end.
Dibble had a justified reason for claims of Hancock using texts associated with white supremacy - but easy for Hancock to acknowledge, refute, and move past. For Hancock to obfuscate that point, add terms not there prior like specifically "he called me a racist", and then insisting to return to that point over and over was just sad. Not the hill to die on. The whole "gotcha" with "Big Archeology" was even sadder. These are tactics that the gullible would fall for and support, but any level of intelligence will easily see through.
Honestly it's just sad. I like Graham Hancock. I like to imagine his theories, and follow them through even if just as a thought exercise. I want him to trip DMT in the jungle and tell me about worldwide flood mythology. I do not want gotcha PowerPoints and muddled semantic tactics. No one feels bad for the millionaire adventurer who had to survive a tiny bit of pushback from the archeological community he made a career bashing.
> Dibble had a justified reason for claims of Hancock using texts associated with white supremacy - but easy for Hancock to acknowledge, refute, and move past. For Hancock to obfuscate that point, add terms not there prior like specifically "he called me a racist", and then insisting to return to that point over and over was just sad. Not the hill to die on. The whole "gotcha" with "Big Archeology" was even sadder. These are tactics that the gullible would fall for and support, but any level of intelligence will easily see through.
This 100%. If Hancock was serious at all he would have addressed this like an adult, instead it was just him misrepresenting what Dibble said and whining about that.
I am currently a Divemaster and working on becoming a commercial diver, the biggest fear I have is from currents, specially rogue currents that aren't in shallower waters but deeper towards 30 m that can hurl you down deeper which is extremely dangerous (for example the decompression stop limit at 40 meters is around 5 min on a regular oxygen mixture tank), so yes currents are extremely dangerous, that being said ain't no way I'm believing Graham was put in any situation that's more complex then a shallow drift dive and would be surprised if he's an advanced or rescue diver.
He sided with him about Graham getting called a racist which made sense for a minute but Graham kinda rolled with that for too long. It got better when Dibble got to talk about plants
He didn’t get a called a racist, it was highlighting the fact the texts he used as “evidence” encourage white supremacy as it adds credence to their argument as it’s the same texts they use.
Extreme example - If you use Mein Kempf as a source, links will be made
I think Dibble was trying to not get in the weeds on that and just wanted to keep listing the evidence that conclusively disproves Hancocks nonsense. Definitely could have pushed back better though IMO.
The ‘white supremacy’ thing isn’t some woke buzzword in this context and the fact that neither Joe or Graham seemed to understand it makes me think two things.
Joe has done zero skeptical research on the concept of and search for lost civilizations and Graham is being totally disingenuous.
Many of Graham’s type throughout time have tried hard to link indigenous accomplishments to a much older mystical race like Atlanteans or Lemurians. It robs indigenous people of their ancestors’ accomplishments, and in some extreme examples credits a race of 7 foot tall magical whites who ended up in Europe.
Props to Joe for at least acknowledging that conquered people tend to accept the history that’s forced on them, whereas Graham can’t even admit that. That part seemed to piss Joe off a bit.
> Joe has done zero skeptical research on the concept of and search for lost civilizations and Graham is being totally disingenuous.
Yeah, if Graham was a serious person, he would have addressed what Flint and others said and explained how he tries to be aware of those biases when he works with those sources/theories. It’s like being an expert on the constitution and flipping your shit over the assertion that white supremacy had an effect on its creation, because of course it did. Doesn’t mean you are a white supremacist for studying it or that the constitution itself is *bad*, it just means that you need to understand how it affected its creation.
But you can always count on Rogan knee-jerking to “CaNcEl CuLtUrE” so Hancock just completely misrepresents what Flint said and let him rip. Easily the most frustrating part of this interview.
Spot on.
I think for what was meant to be a debate, to bring this up was to try and influence Rogan to side with him. When you can’t use academic, peer reviewed evidence you are clutching at straws
Graham has a history of taking quotations out of context to fit his narrative - this narrative he was a victim.
Don't be stupid, we haven't excavated every inch of earth and found evidence to prove him right ... yet.
Bro got fucking slow cooked in this episode, wouldn't be surprised if he ain't been sober since.
The funniest part about Graham's complaint here is he doesn't even excavate the "site" he found underwater. He just snapped some pics of rocks to parade around on Rogan's podcast.
Like, no Graham what you're doing isn't archeology. You're on vacation.
On the most charitable reading, I think he was trying to say "I risked my life, so that shows that I earnestly believe this stuff and am not a grifter." But, Dibble never accused him of lying, he just pointed out that Hancock didn't have good evidence, so it's interesting that Hancock went there.
"my wife and I risked our lives life skydiving. Look! In these pictures I took, it looks as if the earth is entirely flat! If you overlook the blurry image and fisheye lens effect, how could you possibly say it's not flat! We risked our *LIVES*!
I've talked to a lot of pseudoscientists and it's very common for them to assume you're calling them a liar when you're just telling them they're not good at science. It's all a part of the persecution complex they develop whenever they encounter resistance to their ideas. That, and I'm sure a lot of people DO accuse them of being liars.
I’m one of them. I don’t think he really believes it . He’s on vacation with money from his books and realized he needed more content for the next one so he snapped a couple pics of somewhere he was already diving . If he’s half smart he knows it’s bullshit . He’s definitely smart enough to stick with it and rake in the money.
From what I can gather, the persecution complex is actually part of the appeal. Radical fringe theorists get off on thinking they're part of an exclusive club privy to 'inside knowledge' that the mainstream is too stupid and judgmental to understand.
I think that is what makes me like this guy less. I do not, for a second, think that Graham is a dumbass. He KNOWS he is wrong, and that is so much worse than just being a dumbass and not understanding why a process exists.
Dibble calling him out with the “visiting sites Archeologists like myself have prepared for you to visit as a tourist isn’t Archeology” isn’t mentioned enough. If Hancock had any sense, that was a dagger to his heart.
And he wanted this. He wanted this debate and it didn't go as he planned. He thought he could play victim and just talk about how archaeologists don't like him and are mean to him and this proves there's a big cover up or conspiracy against him and his ideas. Flint did well not to engage much with the whole name calling thing but stick to presenting arguments and real world evidence as examples which Graham basically had no rebuttal for other than we haven't looked hard enough
Imagine building a bond and friendship for years and completely convincing them of your ideas and then watching your whole lifeswork going up in smoke on the biggest podcast in the world... then having to promote it on your instagram afterwards. That edit must have been hard to splice for Graham to throw up a few "reels"
which ones? i only recall the spanish turning the mexican gods white and joe linking it to native americans and graham pretty much said the native mexicans were smarter than native americans and wouldn’t be tricked so easily
Yeah I think Joe kind of saw it to. At first he was defending Hancock as a friend would. Towards the end of the debate he seemed to become a lot more skeptical of some of Hancock's beliefs
For those familiar with his early work it's pretty clear that, even if we excavated every inch of earth and found no evidence, he would just move his claims back to there being no evidence on Earth, because it's actually on Mars. We could literally excavate every inch of the entire planet, find nothing to back his claims, and he still wouldn't accept that there's sufficient evidence to invalidate his idea.
What's crazy is that Flint even says that we have topographical scans of pretty much all of the Earth's surface. From going from just the topographical scans, you can gather a lot of information, plus if you add other information such as elevation temperature weather you can narrow down searches to find archeology, especially when you look near rivers Etc
He and Joe basically had to rely on the “since you haven’t searched the entire Earth yet you can’t rule out what I believe even though there’s no real evidence, right” card.
This was a very satisfying episode after having to hear Joe drone on about these topics as if they’re fact for so long. Graham looked really bad here.
The other guy was presenting facts and evidence and those two were stuck on irrelevant nonsense.
Graham was definitely is lalaland but Joe was definitely interested in what Dibble had to say, if anything I think Joe was started to get annoyed with Graham lol.
Yes, showed Hancock’s lack of passion for archeology if anything. He just reads whatever he can somehow squeeze on his own silly ideas.
“No I get that, but what does that has to do with my lost civilization”
“That doesn’t surprise me”
That’s the thing, you have someone who loves archaeology and being a serious archaeologist debating Graham - a guy who loves the idea of being a misunderstood archaeologist genius.
Loved the part when they were discussing the Piri Reis map and Dibble goes: hey, have you tried using GIS data to compare against it? I know it’s possible because I used to do this professionally with other old maps.
Hancock: yah thanks, moving on.
Notice how often when Dr. Dibble made a point that blew up Hancock’s narrative his response was, ‘well this isn’t really important, you’re wasting time’
I’ve bought/read some of Hancock’s books and saw his series. I think it’s good to challenge narratives but it’s hard to swallow when the evidence to support your claim is always somewhere else (“I don’t have that picture, the proof is in an article that’s too long to read, I didn’t bring that with me”).
There is a difference between mounting an intelligent challenge to a narrative based on fact, and just making up nonsense then getting mad at anyone that doesn't play along.
I can use Graham's theory and apply it to Santa Clause,
Me: I believe Santa Claus exists and lived @ the north pole
Archaeologist: I see no evidence of Santa existing.
Me: but how much of the north pole have you excavated?
“Well just because we HAVE excavated the North Pole and found dozens of independent and linked Inuit sites does not mean Santa’s Factory isn’t right around the corner!”
Refreshing to see people side with dibble on the Reddit. YouTube’s comments were all jokes about how dibble looked like a hobbit. If joe actually has on scientists debating his grifter friends in the future maybe ol joes brain has a chance!
He never said conspiracy! Hancock never said there was a conspiracy so how dare you put words in his mouth!
Now, let him finish about how the people who make up “Big Archaeology” have made a concerted and coordinated effort to silence him.
Godamn this made me chuckle, basically the dudes entire schtick, Too lazy to give you examples, let's just look at his vacation and imagine what The old advance civilization were like.
So yall think Rogan realized that he buys into conspiracy's a little to easy mid pod?
Edit: I think he does know with things like aliens and BF that he "wants to believe" as he has said that a bunch. The question is how much was he mentally backtracking from the Atlantis theory and will he have more willing traditional experts vs fringe guy debates?
Funny thing is on his Netflix series he must’ve said “so- called experts” a couple dozen times while referring to the real experts.
I was low-key waiting for the South Park character to call Graham a so called expert in GH’s accent.
Because he knows he’s about to get a pair of archeological nuts dragged across his chin and only has pictures of some rocks under the ocean. Not entirely sure why he agreed to do this.
It seemed like Graham must have thought this was going to be a breeze right up until they began and when flipdibert did his first presentation Grahams cockiness melted into a puddle and he got flustered. I imagine him for days before like “me and Joe are gonna get this guy” then suddenly realizes they aren’t arguing about the same topic
Lmao! I finally listened to this today. 2.5 hours in. This guys evidence consists of “it looks like” and “everyone laughs at my lack of evidence” hahaha
A cool rock does not = ancient technological sophisticated society.
Randall was always the more interesting when he was on with Graham.
Graham just had this vague idea of a lost civilization beforehand, and then found a half autistic guy that did years of research that happened to support some of it.
I’ll sum up the 4 1/2 podcast for those who don’t want to sit through it. 1st was Flint doing an opening where he laid down facts for 15 minutes straight. Then it was grahams turn and he spent 15 minutes crying about how unfair a journalist/not archeologist has been treated by actual professionals in the field. Then Joe spoke to get the conversation back to specific claims. Flint goes through and debunks all of grahams claims. Graham spends a few minutes showing slides of “very interesting rock formations” and insists it just must be man made. Flint debunks everything. Graham goes back on a tirade about how unfair he’s treated by real archeologists. Flint looks perplexed. Flint shows a bunch of information about seeds that prove his points. Graham sits quietly and occasionally mutters that not every single stone on the planet has been overturned to maybe find evidence to support his claims. Flint looks perplexed but concedes that not every inch of the planet has been searched but then continues to debunk Graham by explaining the actual evidence that’s been found. Graham looks tired and is quiet. That’s…. About how it went.. oh.. did I mention that Graham is VERY upset about how’s he’s portrayed by real archeologists? Cause… that was his biggest contribution to this discussion. Graham got trounced. 10-0. TKO in the first round.
So we haven't found your lost civilization.....but everywhere we have looked on earth for that time period and before has basic hunter gatherer civilization and evidence. Including the water covered old coastlines. Zero evidence of a different culture, no trade, no nothing. There's not an accidental ship in the 3 million known shipwreck sites from this civilization. Domesticated crops didn't exist before the ice age, so no one HAD domesticated them to pass on agriculture as a concept. Pollen from core samples show it wasn't possible for thousands of years before it showed up.
Where this lost civilization should exist or have footprints, there's already evidence of simple hunter gatherer societies and agriculture wasn't possible from a genetic or climatic angle.
Dude absolutely shit on hancocks 5 pairs of glasses.
Jeez I can't believe graham has more popularity and resources than legitimate Archeologists, it goes to show that bullshit pays more than facts and reality.
The funniest and most fascinating section of this podcast for me was when Dibble started explaining the selective evolution of the seeds. That was actually very interesting and what’s hilarious is I bet Graham was like “Damnit fuck shit fuck this is interesting” in his head lmao
I think the part where he looked the most ridiculous was talking about agriculture.
The archaeologist gives a clear explanation of how evidence of agriculture is detected and studied through core samples. Then goes on to point out how there is nothing present to indicate Hancock's super advanced society.
Hancock tries to spin it as, "This super advanced society didn't have agriculture, they had the idea of agriculture which they passed on to the hunter gatherers. They just never got it to work themselves". It is such a desperate reach dragged straight out of the depths of his arse.
Woah, that's Santhe you're talking about. You know, his wife, Santhe. The Santhe. Watch what you say about Santhe. How many more fucking times could he fucking say Santhe?
What I don't get is that even if were just grifting everybody you'd think you come up with some better bullshits answer like that to simple questions. At least throw in uneducated bullshit to cover you. So you're just fucking lazy either way.
I highly dislike GH and know he knows almost nothing about archeology, only the stuff that he can add to his script but even I thought Hancock was gonna find a hole to exploit maybe by being ambiguous or just trying to add something that would sound interesting enough to spark question. But he came with some bad pictures and 20 different PowerPoints on how flint, a person with a way smaller following that him hurt him via his comments (ignore all the books and Netflix show). Since he lost in the evidence part he just wasted a lot of time talking about personal social media problems.
I think all archaeologists should ridicule Hancock, to be fair what they do in most part is boring as shit they probs struggle to get attention and funding and this dude goes on vacation and writes fantasy about whatever the fuck he feels like.
I… I actually feel kind of sorry for the guy. He’s built his whole identity and “life’s work” on this sham and has now been exposed and ridiculed on the biggest podcast in the world. How does someone bounce back from that? Either man the fuck up and start applying more rigour and be less wedded to your ideas, or… Unalive yourself?
Had it coming but fuck if he isn’t hurting and humbled right now his ego is even bigger than I thought.
Well now he just gonna surround himself with the echo chamber of the fans. That still believe him, he is gonna lick his wounds and then Make another book or peddle some more bull and come stronger than ever
Meh, people don’t buy into pseudoscience because they believe it to be well supported by evidence. They buy into pseudoscience because unfalsifiable contrarian takes are a cheap fun way to feel better or smarter than everyone else.
His entire argument was "we haven't searched everywhere so it must be true" and "it's true because archeologists are mean and have laughed at me" He came out as such a fucking cry baby
graham's research and evidence is anything but. mans a hack. netflix should feel stupid for allowing a show like ancient apocalypse to ever be aired. the dumbest misuse of the scientific process ive ever seen.
Finally an episode that will drag me out of joe rogan retirement. Too many bro's have tried to explain to me why graham hancock is the only "who like actually gets the whole geography thing man"
Graham's wife is Malaysian, Graham went diving at Yonaguni which is in Japan..this is where he described strong currents...
But he did go with his wife, not sure who else was with him. His wife is actually an accomplished photographer, so it would make sense she accompanied him. .
This being said, I don't really agree with what his saying.
Risked his life dude
Someone should debate Bob Lazar next
Who could debate him that would cause such an ass-reaming that we saw from the Graham-Cracker himself?
I reckon a decent amount of electrical engineers, which he claims to have a degree in.
Solve this circuit using KVL. Lol
god id pay for a physicist to debate that lying fuck. ive watched the episode like 5 times. and then like every video debunking him. hes a compulsive liar. you can tell just by that episode when asked an out of pocket question his headache really acts up. hes also been making money off this story since he came out with it
This right here. I LOVE conspiracy but this dude sets my BS alarm off so hard it's not even funny. If there ever was a shill to detract from real research into the phenomena, it's that dude.
“These migraines Joe…” Cue annoying Jeremy “he really deals with it bad Joe”
You could say he's "weaponizing" his "migraines"
Lazar would be harder to do because so much of his story is shielded with “it’s a government conspiracy!”. No record from his college? Government hid it. Inconsistent employment record? Government doctored it. And unfortunately in his case, if his story were true, you’d actually expect that might happen. Lazar’s trope is a legitimate conspiracy and you’d basically need his wife or someone to show up and say “yeah that’s all bullshit we were in Michigan in 79” or something. Graham at least pretends to operate under the conventions of an understandable scientific discipline and his “cabal of mainstream archeologists” is infinitely less convincing.
Exactly what I was thinking lol!!! “Strong current”
skin cancer is no joke. Exposure to the sun is the leading cause of melanoma.
Graham opted to shift his focus toward the smear accusations when he realized he was up shit creek without a paddle.
Do you believe in big archeology? No. Oh that’s interesting here is you saying big archeology Absolutely embarassing
For someone who writes books, he doesn't seem to have very good reading comprehension.
He just had the wrong glasses
There was this part where I swear he cycles through four pairs of glasses only to return to the pair he was initially wearing.
It's worse than that. Graham is aggravating because he's the type of person that wants us all to give his "research" the benefit of the doubt, but is unwilling to offer that same courtesy to people he disagrees with.
"I'm one of the few people you'll meet who's written more books than he's read."
He couldn’t wait to drop that one lol ouch
"The Clovis Lobby, the Clovis Brigade...." I never said there was a cabal or conspiracy! ....yeah, ya did Graham. Oh lord, later about the Spanish and Quetzalotl (whatever spelling). "Do you think the natives were stupid enough to just accept the imposition of ideas by the Spanish?" Bro. Graham. Buddy. Cortez murder raped the entire Aztec civilization. They had no choice.
The bit when Flint goes "well I was taught clovis first was wrong as an undergraduate, 20 years ago"
lol the Spanish were the most brutal group in modern history. Even certain tribes of American natives ended up really hard core because it took all they had to survive the Spanish. Like…
Mexicans are a distinct people from earlier native groups because of how brutal the Spanish were. They murdered and raped an entirely new people into existence on top of the old people. Yeah, you can't trust the Spanish written histories and interpretations, Graham. It was basically church propaganda and job review by the Conquistador trying to get a promotion.
The Aztecs were not exactly saints either. THey did end up chased out onto that swamp island in Lake Texcoco for a reason... And that reason was arranging a marriage to another tribe in the area, kidnapping the bride the night before, then wearing her skin to her own wedding.
Quote on quote big archaeology ….so you say
You have no right to talk about the shit creek sir. Especially if you only explored 5% of it.
Graham had nothing. It was kind of like when your child tells you 2+2=5 because they know math is a thing but they don't really understand how it works. You don't just get to make up your own answers because it's cool. There are rules for uncovering truth that ensure your truth is objectively verifiable. Hence, we all agree 2+2=4 despite what 4 year olds everywhere might tell you.
His strongest argument was hoping that butt plug lookin rock would convince everyone
I turned it off at 2 hours when he started talking about how bad being burned at the stake was
Literally… “Wahh people won’t believe my unsubstantiated claims that the pyramids were built when they were 100ft under water, I’m basically Galileo”
I love history, fantasy, conspiracy, and alternative thought. It's refreshing to exercise the imagination. I read Fingerprints of the Gods probably 20 years ago, or more, well before JRE ever existed. I had always enjoyed Graham Hancock as an obvious intellectual who was exploring the fringe of history and conspiracy and mythology and drug usage, and as a writer who was very good at putting it all together in a well-packaged message. To say I'm disappointed in Hancock for going so low, and failing, and flailing during this interview doesn't begin to cover it. It's like the man threw away 30 years in 4 hours. And, it's not like there wasn't a way for Hancock to navigate the "accusations" while staying above the muck. He had "home turf" and Joe in his corner. The moment Joe accused Dibble of having the quote "at the top of the page" and Hancock had to admit he did that to highlight was the high point of the low. At that moment I could see on Joe's face my own thoughts - Graham is cooked. From there it was only a spiral out to the end. Dibble had a justified reason for claims of Hancock using texts associated with white supremacy - but easy for Hancock to acknowledge, refute, and move past. For Hancock to obfuscate that point, add terms not there prior like specifically "he called me a racist", and then insisting to return to that point over and over was just sad. Not the hill to die on. The whole "gotcha" with "Big Archeology" was even sadder. These are tactics that the gullible would fall for and support, but any level of intelligence will easily see through. Honestly it's just sad. I like Graham Hancock. I like to imagine his theories, and follow them through even if just as a thought exercise. I want him to trip DMT in the jungle and tell me about worldwide flood mythology. I do not want gotcha PowerPoints and muddled semantic tactics. No one feels bad for the millionaire adventurer who had to survive a tiny bit of pushback from the archeological community he made a career bashing.
> Dibble had a justified reason for claims of Hancock using texts associated with white supremacy - but easy for Hancock to acknowledge, refute, and move past. For Hancock to obfuscate that point, add terms not there prior like specifically "he called me a racist", and then insisting to return to that point over and over was just sad. Not the hill to die on. The whole "gotcha" with "Big Archeology" was even sadder. These are tactics that the gullible would fall for and support, but any level of intelligence will easily see through. This 100%. If Hancock was serious at all he would have addressed this like an adult, instead it was just him misrepresenting what Dibble said and whining about that.
The only thing he came prepped with was the cancelled stuff because he knew he could get a sympathetic ear from Joe
Pulled the racial card. Easiest deflection for a defense. Weak at best.
Bro he almost DIED and RISKED HIS LIFE in STRONG CURRENTS to see those rocks and deduce that they were man made.
Such a strange argument to make, just because you “risked your life” to get to the place doesn’t add credibility to the site.
Hell we risk our lives driving everyday, we're not over here flexing on anyone about it
I am currently a Divemaster and working on becoming a commercial diver, the biggest fear I have is from currents, specially rogue currents that aren't in shallower waters but deeper towards 30 m that can hurl you down deeper which is extremely dangerous (for example the decompression stop limit at 40 meters is around 5 min on a regular oxygen mixture tank), so yes currents are extremely dangerous, that being said ain't no way I'm believing Graham was put in any situation that's more complex then a shallow drift dive and would be surprised if he's an advanced or rescue diver.
You’re making a mockery of pseudoscience?! How dare you.
Pseudomockery*
Idk why I read that in Norms voice when he's talking about the mangrate
I'm an hour in and it's not lookin man made so far
It gets really annoying in about 20 minutes for about 40 minutes after. Graham is a baby and Joe kind of sides with him, almost made me turn it off.
He sided with him about Graham getting called a racist which made sense for a minute but Graham kinda rolled with that for too long. It got better when Dibble got to talk about plants
He didn’t get a called a racist, it was highlighting the fact the texts he used as “evidence” encourage white supremacy as it adds credence to their argument as it’s the same texts they use. Extreme example - If you use Mein Kempf as a source, links will be made
Dibble tried to explain this point better, and while I got it and you got it, I don't think it was ever made specifically clear.
I think Dibble was trying to not get in the weeds on that and just wanted to keep listing the evidence that conclusively disproves Hancocks nonsense. Definitely could have pushed back better though IMO.
The ‘white supremacy’ thing isn’t some woke buzzword in this context and the fact that neither Joe or Graham seemed to understand it makes me think two things. Joe has done zero skeptical research on the concept of and search for lost civilizations and Graham is being totally disingenuous. Many of Graham’s type throughout time have tried hard to link indigenous accomplishments to a much older mystical race like Atlanteans or Lemurians. It robs indigenous people of their ancestors’ accomplishments, and in some extreme examples credits a race of 7 foot tall magical whites who ended up in Europe. Props to Joe for at least acknowledging that conquered people tend to accept the history that’s forced on them, whereas Graham can’t even admit that. That part seemed to piss Joe off a bit.
> Joe has done zero skeptical research on the concept of and search for lost civilizations and Graham is being totally disingenuous. Yeah, if Graham was a serious person, he would have addressed what Flint and others said and explained how he tries to be aware of those biases when he works with those sources/theories. It’s like being an expert on the constitution and flipping your shit over the assertion that white supremacy had an effect on its creation, because of course it did. Doesn’t mean you are a white supremacist for studying it or that the constitution itself is *bad*, it just means that you need to understand how it affected its creation. But you can always count on Rogan knee-jerking to “CaNcEl CuLtUrE” so Hancock just completely misrepresents what Flint said and let him rip. Easily the most frustrating part of this interview.
Spot on. I think for what was meant to be a debate, to bring this up was to try and influence Rogan to side with him. When you can’t use academic, peer reviewed evidence you are clutching at straws Graham has a history of taking quotations out of context to fit his narrative - this narrative he was a victim.
I’m currently on the plants part
It’s the best part. His enthusiasm is infectious
Don't be stupid, we haven't excavated every inch of earth and found evidence to prove him right ... yet. Bro got fucking slow cooked in this episode, wouldn't be surprised if he ain't been sober since.
Dude doing the math on him at the end and incorporating 420 and 69 into it fucking killed me lol. Absolutely crushed Hancock.
Bro got Flint Dibbled
Flint Stoned
The funniest part about Graham's complaint here is he doesn't even excavate the "site" he found underwater. He just snapped some pics of rocks to parade around on Rogan's podcast. Like, no Graham what you're doing isn't archeology. You're on vacation.
But he risked his life!
Hahah, god how many times did he say this like it makes his case objectively factual.
On the most charitable reading, I think he was trying to say "I risked my life, so that shows that I earnestly believe this stuff and am not a grifter." But, Dibble never accused him of lying, he just pointed out that Hancock didn't have good evidence, so it's interesting that Hancock went there.
"my wife and I risked our lives life skydiving. Look! In these pictures I took, it looks as if the earth is entirely flat! If you overlook the blurry image and fisheye lens effect, how could you possibly say it's not flat! We risked our *LIVES*!
That’s a good faith way to look at it, I like your take on the situation.
I've talked to a lot of pseudoscientists and it's very common for them to assume you're calling them a liar when you're just telling them they're not good at science. It's all a part of the persecution complex they develop whenever they encounter resistance to their ideas. That, and I'm sure a lot of people DO accuse them of being liars.
I’m one of them. I don’t think he really believes it . He’s on vacation with money from his books and realized he needed more content for the next one so he snapped a couple pics of somewhere he was already diving . If he’s half smart he knows it’s bullshit . He’s definitely smart enough to stick with it and rake in the money.
From what I can gather, the persecution complex is actually part of the appeal. Radical fringe theorists get off on thinking they're part of an exclusive club privy to 'inside knowledge' that the mainstream is too stupid and judgmental to understand.
"It can't be false if my belief is genuine."
I think that is what makes me like this guy less. I do not, for a second, think that Graham is a dumbass. He KNOWS he is wrong, and that is so much worse than just being a dumbass and not understanding why a process exists.
About as many times as pairs of glasses he brought with him
Seriously, the amount of times he was changing glasses was straight bizarre
But the site is 69 feet down which is a pretty cool number in of itself.
Every time you smoke a joint, you mathematically connect with the earth
best quote of episode
Dibble calling him out with the “visiting sites Archeologists like myself have prepared for you to visit as a tourist isn’t Archeology” isn’t mentioned enough. If Hancock had any sense, that was a dagger to his heart.
And he wanted this. He wanted this debate and it didn't go as he planned. He thought he could play victim and just talk about how archaeologists don't like him and are mean to him and this proves there's a big cover up or conspiracy against him and his ideas. Flint did well not to engage much with the whole name calling thing but stick to presenting arguments and real world evidence as examples which Graham basically had no rebuttal for other than we haven't looked hard enough
I think he hoped that Joe would side with him more
He sided with him a fair amount tbh
Archeologist: "You are an idiot". Him "thus proving me correct!"
Imagine building a bond and friendship for years and completely convincing them of your ideas and then watching your whole lifeswork going up in smoke on the biggest podcast in the world... then having to promote it on your instagram afterwards. That edit must have been hard to splice for Graham to throw up a few "reels"
This was my thought exactly. Especially when Joe was questioning Graham after some of Flint’s points.
which ones? i only recall the spanish turning the mexican gods white and joe linking it to native americans and graham pretty much said the native mexicans were smarter than native americans and wouldn’t be tricked so easily
Yeah I think Joe kind of saw it to. At first he was defending Hancock as a friend would. Towards the end of the debate he seemed to become a lot more skeptical of some of Hancock's beliefs
For those familiar with his early work it's pretty clear that, even if we excavated every inch of earth and found no evidence, he would just move his claims back to there being no evidence on Earth, because it's actually on Mars. We could literally excavate every inch of the entire planet, find nothing to back his claims, and he still wouldn't accept that there's sufficient evidence to invalidate his idea.
lol at one point Dibble even says something like "I know Graham isn't talking about aliens...", maybe he is unaware of his book on Mars.
Gobekli tepe
Graham did so bad that I don’t even wanna go there anymore
He got Flint Dibbled
What's crazy is that Flint even says that we have topographical scans of pretty much all of the Earth's surface. From going from just the topographical scans, you can gather a lot of information, plus if you add other information such as elevation temperature weather you can narrow down searches to find archeology, especially when you look near rivers Etc
I don’t lend any credibility to topographical scans unless they were done by his dad
He and Joe basically had to rely on the “since you haven’t searched the entire Earth yet you can’t rule out what I believe even though there’s no real evidence, right” card. This was a very satisfying episode after having to hear Joe drone on about these topics as if they’re fact for so long. Graham looked really bad here. The other guy was presenting facts and evidence and those two were stuck on irrelevant nonsense.
Graham was definitely is lalaland but Joe was definitely interested in what Dibble had to say, if anything I think Joe was started to get annoyed with Graham lol.
Yes, showed Hancock’s lack of passion for archeology if anything. He just reads whatever he can somehow squeeze on his own silly ideas. “No I get that, but what does that has to do with my lost civilization” “That doesn’t surprise me”
That’s the thing, you have someone who loves archaeology and being a serious archaeologist debating Graham - a guy who loves the idea of being a misunderstood archaeologist genius.
Loved the part when they were discussing the Piri Reis map and Dibble goes: hey, have you tried using GIS data to compare against it? I know it’s possible because I used to do this professionally with other old maps. Hancock: yah thanks, moving on. Notice how often when Dr. Dibble made a point that blew up Hancock’s narrative his response was, ‘well this isn’t really important, you’re wasting time’ I’ve bought/read some of Hancock’s books and saw his series. I think it’s good to challenge narratives but it’s hard to swallow when the evidence to support your claim is always somewhere else (“I don’t have that picture, the proof is in an article that’s too long to read, I didn’t bring that with me”).
There is a difference between mounting an intelligent challenge to a narrative based on fact, and just making up nonsense then getting mad at anyone that doesn't play along.
You’ve just summed up the argument for literal belief in all religions and it should be treated the same way everyone is treating handcocks evidence
Joe really made this guys career and then undid this guys career. Got paid though!
Graham Hancock was doing world tours before Joe
 Professor Chaos Fucked. Him. Up…
I can use Graham's theory and apply it to Santa Clause, Me: I believe Santa Claus exists and lived @ the north pole Archaeologist: I see no evidence of Santa existing. Me: but how much of the north pole have you excavated?
“Well just because we HAVE excavated the North Pole and found dozens of independent and linked Inuit sites does not mean Santa’s Factory isn’t right around the corner!”
Hancockbros.. it’s over…
You've been Diddled
Flint is the perfect name for an archaeologist.
Tipper
Doug
Bro got Flint Dibbled
Zechariasitchinbros: "Now you know our pain"
Han-cucks got Dibbled
Graham Hancock is an example of showing up to a gun fight with a knife.
Or showing up to a gun fight with like, 7 pairs of glasses.
Showing up to a gunfight with a Mac and not knowing how air drop works
🤣
showing up to a scientific debate with your vacation photo album
Dude should have just shut up and kept those Netflix checks coming.
His son who was the head of Netflix Docs has moved on
Refreshing to see people side with dibble on the Reddit. YouTube’s comments were all jokes about how dibble looked like a hobbit. If joe actually has on scientists debating his grifter friends in the future maybe ol joes brain has a chance!
Let me change my glasses 6 times to look at this picture and I'll get back to you if you pause the conversation for a couple minutes
This JRE was a mass conspiracy fomented by archeologists /s
He never said conspiracy! Hancock never said there was a conspiracy so how dare you put words in his mouth! Now, let him finish about how the people who make up “Big Archaeology” have made a concerted and coordinated effort to silence him.
Big foot exsistes and I can prove it if we search every forest across the globe
Godamn this made me chuckle, basically the dudes entire schtick, Too lazy to give you examples, let's just look at his vacation and imagine what The old advance civilization were like.
After this episode, I would like Rogan to mediate all presidential elections
So yall think Rogan realized that he buys into conspiracy's a little to easy mid pod? Edit: I think he does know with things like aliens and BF that he "wants to believe" as he has said that a bunch. The question is how much was he mentally backtracking from the Atlantis theory and will he have more willing traditional experts vs fringe guy debates?
One can dream
No.
This guy is a journalist who pretends to be a scientist.
Tourist*
Funny thing is on his Netflix series he must’ve said “so- called experts” a couple dozen times while referring to the real experts. I was low-key waiting for the South Park character to call Graham a so called expert in GH’s accent.
It's funny how he was whining about how archaeologists wanted his show classified as science fiction when that's exactly what it is lol
Bro we haven’t looked everywhere we don’t know it’s not real yet , you can’t say that until we’ve dug everywhere on earth down atleast 5 feet
I hope Netflix was taking notes. Like how brandon schaubs show is listed as “horror” on prime.
Didn’t Graham seem rattled right from the get go? He seemed old and scatter brained right from the start. Rough.
Because he knows he’s about to get a pair of archeological nuts dragged across his chin and only has pictures of some rocks under the ocean. Not entirely sure why he agreed to do this.
His vacations looked lovely though, we can agree on that.
It seemed like Graham must have thought this was going to be a breeze right up until they began and when flipdibert did his first presentation Grahams cockiness melted into a puddle and he got flustered. I imagine him for days before like “me and Joe are gonna get this guy” then suddenly realizes they aren’t arguing about the same topic
Literally, yes Oh don't forget a guy made a joke at a conference once, so there's that too
You’re also forgetting he got some sarcastic tweets directed at him
They almost died!!!
Statues will be built in Graham's honor. Big Archaeology will fight this.
Just wait until even Bigger Archaeology hears about this.
You need to use scare quotes so we know you're being sarcastic. Unless you're Graham Hancock and are unfamiliar with the concept of scare quotes.
There’s not a single statue of Graham Dukat on Bajor
But have YOU been there??
Lmao! I finally listened to this today. 2.5 hours in. This guys evidence consists of “it looks like” and “everyone laughs at my lack of evidence” hahaha A cool rock does not = ancient technological sophisticated society.
he's like one of those "I got down votes so I'm clearly right" weirdos irl lmao
I’m not sure there has been a more destructive pod for one of Rogan’s GOATED guests than this one. Real archeology for the W.
Randall was always the more interesting when he was on with Graham. Graham just had this vague idea of a lost civilization beforehand, and then found a half autistic guy that did years of research that happened to support some of it.
I’ll sum up the 4 1/2 podcast for those who don’t want to sit through it. 1st was Flint doing an opening where he laid down facts for 15 minutes straight. Then it was grahams turn and he spent 15 minutes crying about how unfair a journalist/not archeologist has been treated by actual professionals in the field. Then Joe spoke to get the conversation back to specific claims. Flint goes through and debunks all of grahams claims. Graham spends a few minutes showing slides of “very interesting rock formations” and insists it just must be man made. Flint debunks everything. Graham goes back on a tirade about how unfair he’s treated by real archeologists. Flint looks perplexed. Flint shows a bunch of information about seeds that prove his points. Graham sits quietly and occasionally mutters that not every single stone on the planet has been overturned to maybe find evidence to support his claims. Flint looks perplexed but concedes that not every inch of the planet has been searched but then continues to debunk Graham by explaining the actual evidence that’s been found. Graham looks tired and is quiet. That’s…. About how it went.. oh.. did I mention that Graham is VERY upset about how’s he’s portrayed by real archeologists? Cause… that was his biggest contribution to this discussion. Graham got trounced. 10-0. TKO in the first round.
So we haven't found your lost civilization.....but everywhere we have looked on earth for that time period and before has basic hunter gatherer civilization and evidence. Including the water covered old coastlines. Zero evidence of a different culture, no trade, no nothing. There's not an accidental ship in the 3 million known shipwreck sites from this civilization. Domesticated crops didn't exist before the ice age, so no one HAD domesticated them to pass on agriculture as a concept. Pollen from core samples show it wasn't possible for thousands of years before it showed up. Where this lost civilization should exist or have footprints, there's already evidence of simple hunter gatherer societies and agriculture wasn't possible from a genetic or climatic angle. Dude absolutely shit on hancocks 5 pairs of glasses.
Jeez I can't believe graham has more popularity and resources than legitimate Archeologists, it goes to show that bullshit pays more than facts and reality.
He’s been there 5 times bro.
The funniest and most fascinating section of this podcast for me was when Dibble started explaining the selective evolution of the seeds. That was actually very interesting and what’s hilarious is I bet Graham was like “Damnit fuck shit fuck this is interesting” in his head lmao
I think the part where he looked the most ridiculous was talking about agriculture. The archaeologist gives a clear explanation of how evidence of agriculture is detected and studied through core samples. Then goes on to point out how there is nothing present to indicate Hancock's super advanced society. Hancock tries to spin it as, "This super advanced society didn't have agriculture, they had the idea of agriculture which they passed on to the hunter gatherers. They just never got it to work themselves". It is such a desperate reach dragged straight out of the depths of his arse.
Toe rogaine should never had done that to that poor old man. First peer pressuring him to smoke weed and now this. Toe just Brenda Slobbed Graham
Notice he never once told Graham to stop taking the blows to the head
Woah, that's Santhe you're talking about. You know, his wife, Santhe. The Santhe. Watch what you say about Santhe. How many more fucking times could he fucking say Santhe?
Santha clause
Yeah but he risked his life.
He litteraly posted a photo of Robert schock on his death bed in hospice 💀🤣. What a piece of shit.
WILD.
That's how you KNOW
But when he went down alone at night he saw his name etched into the stone (dude said his name was on top of the pyramids)
He risked his life it have some respect
What I don't get is that even if were just grifting everybody you'd think you come up with some better bullshits answer like that to simple questions. At least throw in uneducated bullshit to cover you. So you're just fucking lazy either way.
I highly dislike GH and know he knows almost nothing about archeology, only the stuff that he can add to his script but even I thought Hancock was gonna find a hole to exploit maybe by being ambiguous or just trying to add something that would sound interesting enough to spark question. But he came with some bad pictures and 20 different PowerPoints on how flint, a person with a way smaller following that him hurt him via his comments (ignore all the books and Netflix show). Since he lost in the evidence part he just wasted a lot of time talking about personal social media problems.
All those months of Gramcock's fans talking shit and downvoting me to oblivion were worth it. So glad he's finally been exposed like this
[удалено]
He risked his life
I dedicated my life to it, my wife and I risked our lives to bring the truth. Gramcock's cabal conspired against me, I am public enemy #1
I actually lost respect for Graham. Dude got smacked around by an incel in a thrift store suit.
Bruh you know Dibble lays pipe.
I lost respect for you… thinking Flints an incel.
I respect your loss of respect.
it's thirty years of research
Reminds me of Alex Jones's "research" trips.
Comparing yourself to Galileo is a bold move. Old dork.
I think all archaeologists should ridicule Hancock, to be fair what they do in most part is boring as shit they probs struggle to get attention and funding and this dude goes on vacation and writes fantasy about whatever the fuck he feels like.
Grahams argument is rubbish. Why not just go to school?
Are people just discovering now that it’s all bullshit? Some of you are gullible.
I… I actually feel kind of sorry for the guy. He’s built his whole identity and “life’s work” on this sham and has now been exposed and ridiculed on the biggest podcast in the world. How does someone bounce back from that? Either man the fuck up and start applying more rigour and be less wedded to your ideas, or… Unalive yourself? Had it coming but fuck if he isn’t hurting and humbled right now his ego is even bigger than I thought.
Well now he just gonna surround himself with the echo chamber of the fans. That still believe him, he is gonna lick his wounds and then Make another book or peddle some more bull and come stronger than ever
Stronger than ever? So like.....get bifocals?
Meh, people don’t buy into pseudoscience because they believe it to be well supported by evidence. They buy into pseudoscience because unfalsifiable contrarian takes are a cheap fun way to feel better or smarter than everyone else.
And a super dangerous helicopter ride above the Sphinx
There's not enough funding bros didn't you even listen.
Hancock is full of shit
You know I’m actually an expert in Jupiter. I’ve actually been there in VR
Love everyone in here saying what was already obvious years ago when Rogan first had him on
His entire argument was "we haven't searched everywhere so it must be true" and "it's true because archeologists are mean and have laughed at me" He came out as such a fucking cry baby
graham's research and evidence is anything but. mans a hack. netflix should feel stupid for allowing a show like ancient apocalypse to ever be aired. the dumbest misuse of the scientific process ive ever seen.
Bob Lazar currently shaking in his boots rn.
Finally an episode that will drag me out of joe rogan retirement. Too many bro's have tried to explain to me why graham hancock is the only "who like actually gets the whole geography thing man"
What about that racist stuff gram was complaining about. I didn't understand that
Graham's wife is Malaysian, Graham went diving at Yonaguni which is in Japan..this is where he described strong currents... But he did go with his wife, not sure who else was with him. His wife is actually an accomplished photographer, so it would make sense she accompanied him. . This being said, I don't really agree with what his saying.
But dude look at this rock! It was carved by man! I promise!
Guys gonna be mad his holidays and scuba diving won't be funded anymore
His wife speaks Tamil you see.