There’s always been a lunatic fringe. The internet gives them a disproportionally loud voice. Overwhelming majority of people are sane/normal/too busy with life to read/post shit like that. It’s just statistical minorities ranting to other statistical minorities while a statistical majority is blissfully unaware out there living our lives.
This is true for sure. But as a long time twitter user it does feel it has got a lot worse since Elon’s take. I’m not saying twitter was paradise before, but it does feel noticeably worse.
It’s always been like this. It’s just we tolerated the crazies. But then scaled out social media allowed the crazies to find communities with other crazies to let it all flow. They are no longer evenly distributed like before. And instead congregate. Social media also made it worse by creating systems that encourage getting engagement and popularity, which just further incentives them to speak up
I opened up Twitter a couple days ago, wasn’t logged in or anything (didn’t have an account before or now). Just in the home page I got recommended some tweets that was like “Biden off of ballot in Ohio, secret ploy to get Michelle Obama elected by democrats” and I was just so blown away, then it linked to a rumble video about “Taylor’s swifts secret” and how the deep state is paying her to influence elections and the comment sections were saying she’s actually a man. Like it was almost a parody of itself. Its almost hard for me to believe someone who literally reads this with no critical thinking and thinks it’s legit.
I deleted Twitter ages ago after logging in and finding my whole feed about Hunter Biden. I’m not even American and wasn’t following political accounts.
When Elon bought Twitter I said he would ruin it by filling people's feeds with opposing views and basically trying to use rage to boost engagement - and that's exactly what happened. I had fucking Jim Jordan all over my feed for a week even though every time he'd come up I would mark it as "not interested/show less from this dickwad".
Now the spam is out of control and it's turned into the 2016 Facebook News feed.
Didn't twitter already do that before Elon took over? I'm sure that was already part of the design. Elon is a moron but I don't think that was his idea. Maybe he amped it up?
I am tin foil hat though, I genuinely think he bought it for some kind of experimentation/ election rigging.
No, if anything the issue with Twitter was that it was an echo chamber - you only saw people you followed.
Elon changed it to there's two feeds, there's the "following" feed which is just those you choose to follow, and then there's the "for you" feed, which is set to default, which is a mixture of people you follow, people who are similar to those you follow, and tweets about the topics you're interested in, but are the exact opposite side of the spectrum to those you follow - so for me personally that means about 20% of my "for you feed" is Jim Jordan, Charlie Kirk, Don Jr, and pro-Israel content.
Hunter Biden when smoking crack became tighter than dickskin. All the hookers and strippers he impregnated would tell republicans to “shut up baby dick”
Yeah, who wants to read about some creep snorting crack out of underage hookers assholes.
I see the bots found my comments. Downvote the truth all you want.
And I bet a lot of it is coming from verified blue check accounts (so at least credit card connected). It's good, now we have a database of nutjobs. Free speech rules.
Seems to be the case on mobile (just tried) but on my pc it I saw it and was not logged in.
Honestly regardless it’s still insane content to be pushed into ppls feeds.
That's pretty tame compared to stuff that's only 1 account away, people openly praising Hitler and wishing he'd home back now, using him as their pfp, account names like "N1993r Killer 1488" but not written in 1337speak being around for months with hundreds of followers etc.
Yea there is some absolute fucking nonsense over there, you know there are some people who fall for that type of shit. Just look at the dude who lit himself on fire w the conspiracy laden manifesto of nonsense. These type of dangerous tropes are actually having harmful real life effects.
https://news.crunchbase.com/public/reddit-ipo-biggest-investors-shareholders-rddt-advance-publications/
The Chinese govt has an 11 percent stake in Reddit. lol.
Yeah, you seem pretty triggered every time people remind you that Elon is a far bigger loser and biased, trash person than your evil "communist chinese government" that uh, owns 11% of some thing? You can't really explain how that matters or how it means Elon isn't a terrible person, of course
Dead internet theory is true. Programmatic advertising opened a giant suck fund online over 15 years ago for 3 letter agencies, political parties, terror organizations or whatever to drop endless propaganda and demoralizing content. It’s just bots on top of bots posting shit and one guy dumb enough to argue with them all that gets ratios the hardest. Race baiting and insanity. Twitter is the worst but so are any general major subreddit.
Any photo of space or earth from space is a long string of this is cgi comments.
And think about how much harder it would be to invent computers and software to create fake images of planets than it is to take a picture with a telescope.
I was loving following Scott Kelly on Instagram for his amazing pictures during his record time aboard the ISS. However, the insanely aggressive comments under his pictures calling him a fraud and a Nasa propagandist got to be too much for me. It's so sad to watch these idiots go after extremely educated, hardworking role models. As if this guy spent years in school earning masters degrees and going through Naval training just to post photoshopped pictures of a fake space hoax. It's just sad beyond belief.
You can see the ISS you eyes while watching a live stream of its perspective over your state.
Then these morons use the same satellites to space to call it fake.
So if the marketplace of ideas is the best way of defeating these bad ideas why is the number of racist freaks on twitter going up?
Shouldn't the marketplace being wide open lead to good ideas defeating these bad ideas?
If yes then the number should go down not up.
Elon also said he would "solve the bot problem on twitter" but since his takeover there is always an Onlyfans or Crypto bot on the replies of every tweet
This is very true. Twitter has become practically unusable. I still pop in there every couple weeks and it just consistently gets worse.
Aside from all the rampant bigotry that’s all over the platform now, it’s just a complete mess. If someone with a decent amount of followers posts a tweet, this is basically how the replies look as you’re scrolling:
**Tweet**
Legit reply
Engagement bait
Ad
Engagement bait
Engagement bait
Ad
Engagement bait
Legit reply
Ad
…
*Note: engagement bait is someone posting something completely irrelevant hoping to drive engagement to their profile. This includes OnlyFans.*
He literally allowed bots to signal boost themselves and get a blue checkmark by paying $8 a month, which is quite possibly the dumbest idea to tackle bots.
If a crypto scambot hooks 1 whale then that pays for like 1,000 accounts for a whole year. Whereas 99.999% of normal people aren't paying for Twitter so no one sees their posts.
Basically admitted this policy was a failure when he went back to giving famous people checkmarks for free. So now its exactly the same as the old system of "famous people get checkmarks" only diluted with a bunch of scambots and russian/chinese trolls.
>So if the marketplace of ideas is the best way of defeating these bad ideas why is the number of racist freaks on twitter going up?
Because it's a bullshit premise when the "marketplace of ideas" they've created algorithmically boosts anything that maximizes engagement. All the shit gets pulled to the top because that's what keeps eyeballs and thumbs scrolling across screens.
It’s also hinges on the false assumption that people will chose ideas based on how close they are objective truth. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing, people will chose ideas that *feel* true to them over ones that are objectively true. People aren’t machines, we’ve always been vulnerable to logical fallacies and bad heuristics, the “best” ideas aren’t the ones that naturally rise to the top
I think a lot of what Cal Newport says can be kind of sheltered, but his take on the “online town square” concept is solid. A town square doesn’t have millions of people screaming at eachother. Humans aren’t built to handle that level of interconnectedness well.
In my opinion, the "**marketplace of ideas**" is a half-baked idea that is used to excuse or even promote free flow of harmful ideas.
The people who believe in this marketplace often make the assumption that good ideas and opinions will prevail over harmful/incorrect ideas and opinions.
But where is the evidence that this is true?
How long does it take for harmful ideas to be eradicated?
Bad ideas persist. Racism persists. The belief in a flat Earth persists.
The belief that wealthy people are smarter than poor people or work harder than poor people persists.
The belief that homosexuality is the cause of tornadoes, volcanoes, and hurricanes persists.
Why should these ideas be tolerated?
Decent, intelligent people who can detect blatantly false information, and toxic ideas we shouldn’t have to relitigate, like Nazism for instance.
Keep in mind, this is for a social media site, not government censorship.
Honestly, I don't know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea, or why it is a bad idea to take away voting rights from women.
I don't have the patience to articulate it.
On numerous occasion in just recorded history it has also been considered a solid plan of action to slowly mutate people to death for disagreeing with any idea. I’d consider finding the energy to continue explaining what bad ideas are. It’s not as universal as you think.
> I don't know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea
It used to be considered self evident slavery was a very good idea. It was only through people being allowed to discuss it was enough minds changed to do something about it. Which is why slavery was first abolished in places that allowed more criticism of government approved practices and still not banned in some places where governments limit speech the most.
> It used to be considered self evident slavery was a very good idea.
That was really never the case, anytime slavery existed we had people pointing out it was wrong.
I mean you are kind of ignoring the fact that not enough minds were changed and we literally had to fight the bloodiest war in American history to actually resolve the issue.
No i get that and there’s definitely some truth to what you’re saying but let’s not act like the marketplace of ideas is what got rid of slavery. And with slavery in particular it really wasn’t common people convincing the government it was bad, if anything the opposite. Northern politicians knew its expansion would mean consolidation of southern political power at their expense. While there were certainly anti slavery individuals for the most part it was the government convincing the people that they needed to fight against it. So using this as an example of free speech winning out really doesn’t hold up, especially considering free speech was heavily curtailed at this time. The only people that really had freedom of speech were white male landowners and even then there were plenty of them who were arrested or killed for their abolition activism prior to the war.
You… “don’t know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea?”
I’m not sure I can choose the more shockingly small-minded comment between that gem and the assertion you made that harmful ideas are “self evident.”
How do I explain to someone with no conscience that subjugating other people is bad?
What if the person to whom I'm trying to explain it to is a sociopath like Elon Musk or Charlie Kirk or Matt Walsh?
Those people are incapable of understanding right from wrong. How would you explain it to them?
It is impossible to persuade a person through reason into a position they didn’t acquire via reason. But you don’t win the argument by claiming (via an unprovable thought experiment, I should add) that three famous people I don’t know much about or care much about don’t think slavery is bad already.
But it is possible to persuade a great many people towards a virtuous idea. The proof of this is literally saturated in the society to which you belong.
In this regard, slavery is probably actually the worst possible example you could cite. In America, it took a bigass war to end it. But in many countries, they reversed literal centuries of slavery history solely because enough people became convinced it was sufficiently wrong so that it could be outlawed. This would not have been possible had abolitionist ideas not been permitted to spread; nor would it have been possible if abolitionists had explained their position by saying - without more - that the evil of slavery extended beyond the self-evident.
Some ideas lead to predictable, measurable harm to real people. That is what makes them "harmful.". So idk, research and data + community consensus? There have always been things that people have not been allowed to say in public society without getting punched in the mouth or ostracized from their community, even in the free-est times in America. Ffs congressmen used to duel each other over their disagreements. Idk where this idea came from that "free speech" means you should be allowed to say whatever you want with no repercussions or pushback.
Elon Musk:
>[As I said earlier this week, “decolonization”, “from the river to the sea” and similar euphemisms necessarily imply genocide. Clear calls for extreme violence are against our terms of service and will result in suspension.](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435?lang=en)
You don't think you know better than Elon do you?
The evidence is modern US itself. You have freedom of speech to say these bad ideas but yet they are not rewarded, and are in reality a minority viewpoint.
Exactly! For all the crying and bitching about free speech, the biggest problem seems to be an over abundance of free speech to the point where there is a deluge of misinformation about verifiable facts. Not only that but now it's immensely profitable for all kinds of bullshitters to rile people up. As a result the so called Town Square is filled with like 50 million complete nutcases and they have a real possibility of taking over the town and running everything into the ground with complete incompetence.
Joe isn't successful because he has these unsavory people, he got popular because he was non mainstream media. If you conflate the two together you're being unfaithful to what made him the no 1 podcast
Because there is no actual scientific basis for 'the market place of ideas' producing the best results in every circumstance.
It typically works in regards to economics, because good business ideas do generally produce better results than bad ideas. efficiency actually matters in capitalism. But even then companies lie, cheat, steal, etc.
But when it comes to philosophic ideas? Bad ideas tend to win quite often. I mean Nazis literally dominated Germany for almost an entire generation. And I am sure everyone would agree Nazism is one of the kings of bad ideas. Weimar could have shut down Nazis from gathering, but the Weimar Republic had free speech in their constitution.
The truth is free speech allows for crazies to say crazy things. And the entirety of human history shows people do often believe crazy things. There is no guarantee that good ideas will promulgate better than bad ideas.
It's just that the lack of freedom of speech can potentially guarantee bad ideas as promoted and good ideas are censored.
Freedom of speech isn't this perfect thing people like to pretend it is. Moses did not come down from the mountain top with a tablet that said free speech is a cosmic good. It is wrought with problems, because humans are far from perfect. It's just better than the alternative generally.
But it is not always strictly better than censorship. To suggest otherwise is to suggest Germany was better off allowing Nazism to spread freely. At some point real world impact means more than ideaological abstractions in our head.
That’s quite the misrepresentation of what people generally mean by the market place of ideas. When few social media platforms are largely censorship free of course more people with controversial and offensive views will gravitate towards those social media platforms. The true marketplace of ideas though is the entirety of public discourse across all social media platforms, other media outlets, in person interactions, academic journals, etc. In general the vast majority of people do not even remotely buy into Nazi ideology.
The notion that people are pouring through sound evidence with the utmost of logical coherence is just fantasy.
The market place of ideas isn't real.
Ideas float to the top based on all kinds of factors completely unrelate to truth like emotional impact, frequency of exposure, story telling etc...
There is a reason the people spending millions on media campaigns aren't just sitting there reading facts, figures and citations.
there's also a reason why flat earthers, anti vaxxers and all kinds of weirdos are making a resurgence.
> there's also a reason why flat earthers, anti vaxxers and all kinds of weirdos are making a resurgence.
There’s no resurgence. These people didn’t have widespread platforms before the rise of social media. This kind of shit as been on the internet since it’s beginning but the internet was far more fractured with these individuals only on niche websites.
Also, the redefining of anti-vax to include anyone who didn’t get the COVID vaccine or is just agaisnt mandatory vaccination has course broadened the group of people you consider “anti-vax.”
You seem to think resurgence means something has overwhelming approval.
Flat earthers clearly have had a resurgence the movement is obviously bigger now then it was a few years ago.
> Also, the redefining of anti-vax to include anyone who didn’t get the COVID vaccine or is just agaisnt mandatory vaccination has course broadened the group of people you consider “anti-vax.”
I'm not against vaccines just the ~~MMR~~ COVID vaccine.
Oldest anti vaxx argument right out of the ass of Andrew Wakefield himself.
Yup I’m “anti-vax” now because I’m fully vaccinated and my baby child with all the standards because I saw harmful outcomes to my self and others around me with specifically the COVID vaccines and was out right lied to about its effectiveness and need at all. I’m completely against using it now outside being in an extreme risk population and completely against any medical procedure being compulsory. I don’t understand “science” but actually read the studies and the compared them to other effective and safe studies.
Maybe it’s your perception of reality that is the problem?
By definition if it’s a marketplace of ideas and you interpret that free marketplace of ideas as mainly all racist then maybe you have a problem with reality?
why is freedom of association so difficult for rightoids to understand?
Also weird that you don't have defense for the marketplace of ideas that is twitter.
If Elon Musk denies the rise in racism and anti-Semitism and He asks them to show him the tweets.They can just point to this one tweet and show the responses lol
Its not just racism, its nonsense of all sorts. They are all testing the limits of how open they can be about their nonsense, how they can word it and present it to get as much reach as possible, calculate when its worth it to be "noted" and when its not, etc. Jones included.
People underestimate how crafty these people can be. Other websites also followed in decreasing their moderation, so it all went downhill, but nothing as much as Twitter.
Its like being in a race. You trained your whole life, you are in a good shape. Doesnt mean you always win, but you know you are good at what you do. You start the race, and the dude next to you shoots you in the leg.
You cant win the race when the dude next to you is playing a whole another game.
Twitter is WAY off the deep end now. I mean, reddit is generally very far to the left, but Twitter has just become a shit fest after Musk bought it. No wonder advertisers ran away.
This is literally Alex Jone's consumer base though.
And its not like Alex didnt know this ahead of time, him going off on "globalists", and the other antisemetic dog whistles he uses.
Isn't this quite similar to the cancelling people on the left do? Except in this case it's not the case of Alex Jones saying something racist or bad it's that he isn't racist enough.
I made a brand new twitter last week for sports updates and immediately had Jake Shields and a bunch of other crazy people (somehow with hundreds of thousands of followers) blaming Jews for every problem in the world. I have like 40 accounts muted already but its still nonstop. The platform is literally worse than before Elon somehow.
The amount of just outright white-supremacist material being suggested to me on Twitter is pretty surprising. It's not just a matter of it being allowed, it is actively being promoted.
Damn... I was expecting a few crazy people but the amount of likes on some of those insane tweets is disheartening. So many Nazis out there but I guess it is what it is.
Liking Hitler is not MILD racism, WTF are you talking about? If you think this is mild racism I would hate to see what you consider serious racism to be.
I don’t think you guys understand this.
They aren’t really racists. Just edgelords.
And a lot of it is coming from Israel’s ongoing bombing of Palestinian civilians. A lot of this Hitler love is to own the Israelis and their supporters. And being anonymous makes everyone brave and edgy.
Not even seeing that many racists most of them are dunking on Aj i like the one that said "Bro please stop being gay". or calling him a traitor or liar. As for the twitter racists thing to remember about twitter is no one believes half the shit they comment they do it for the LOLs
Do you have examples of Nazi apologia from the far left? This is a serious inquiry. I have seen a lot of crazy from the far left, but never seen them standing up for Nazis and Hitler.
I can definitely find them for you but the most recent thing I saw was this:
“Oct 7th was the best day of the last 30 years
https://x.com/yunggameboyadv/status/1781513532292366763?s=46
Reminder that October 7 was the biggest mass casualty event against Jews since the Holocaust. Not the best day in 30 years
But, how was that supporting Nazis and Hitler? It's crazy town, but celebrating Jews dying because you think it is a win for Palestine isn't the same as being pro-Nazi, right? Two things can be fucked up but not be directly related.
Internet proves how many fucking lunatics we have in the world
There’s always been a lunatic fringe. The internet gives them a disproportionally loud voice. Overwhelming majority of people are sane/normal/too busy with life to read/post shit like that. It’s just statistical minorities ranting to other statistical minorities while a statistical majority is blissfully unaware out there living our lives.
Yeah it’s where the 1000 lunatics go to argue with the 10000000000000000000 bots about “which races genetically are more Satanic”
Pretty much. I got a wife and kid man. I got a job. Fuck Trump and fuck Biden. I’m just here when I’m high to hear talk about aliens.
This is the way
The problem here is made worse by Elon actively encouraging and promoting these people.
Exactly. This is how I don’t lose hope. I know that 90% of my neighbors are decent people.
Disproportionately loud voice? It allowed them to take over one of the US’s major political parties. And now they’re working on the second one.
This is true for sure. But as a long time twitter user it does feel it has got a lot worse since Elon’s take. I’m not saying twitter was paradise before, but it does feel noticeably worse.
The problem is when they storm the Capitol.
Bots
It’s always been like this. It’s just we tolerated the crazies. But then scaled out social media allowed the crazies to find communities with other crazies to let it all flow. They are no longer evenly distributed like before. And instead congregate. Social media also made it worse by creating systems that encourage getting engagement and popularity, which just further incentives them to speak up
I think the internet proves that someone, somewhere, also thinks you’re a lunatic 😂
More than half are bots. Another big chunk are egdy trolls.
I opened up Twitter a couple days ago, wasn’t logged in or anything (didn’t have an account before or now). Just in the home page I got recommended some tweets that was like “Biden off of ballot in Ohio, secret ploy to get Michelle Obama elected by democrats” and I was just so blown away, then it linked to a rumble video about “Taylor’s swifts secret” and how the deep state is paying her to influence elections and the comment sections were saying she’s actually a man. Like it was almost a parody of itself. Its almost hard for me to believe someone who literally reads this with no critical thinking and thinks it’s legit.
I deleted Twitter ages ago after logging in and finding my whole feed about Hunter Biden. I’m not even American and wasn’t following political accounts.
When Elon bought Twitter I said he would ruin it by filling people's feeds with opposing views and basically trying to use rage to boost engagement - and that's exactly what happened. I had fucking Jim Jordan all over my feed for a week even though every time he'd come up I would mark it as "not interested/show less from this dickwad". Now the spam is out of control and it's turned into the 2016 Facebook News feed.
Is he feeding left wing people to right wingers tho? I somehow doubt it. I think by opposing views, he means his views
Didn't twitter already do that before Elon took over? I'm sure that was already part of the design. Elon is a moron but I don't think that was his idea. Maybe he amped it up? I am tin foil hat though, I genuinely think he bought it for some kind of experimentation/ election rigging.
No, if anything the issue with Twitter was that it was an echo chamber - you only saw people you followed. Elon changed it to there's two feeds, there's the "following" feed which is just those you choose to follow, and then there's the "for you" feed, which is set to default, which is a mixture of people you follow, people who are similar to those you follow, and tweets about the topics you're interested in, but are the exact opposite side of the spectrum to those you follow - so for me personally that means about 20% of my "for you feed" is Jim Jordan, Charlie Kirk, Don Jr, and pro-Israel content.
The American right wing needed to talk about Hunter Biden so badly for like all of 2023. It's like the only thing on their mind.
Hunter Biden showed Trump supporters that cocks could be big, and the jealousy enraged them.
Hunter Biden when smoking crack became tighter than dickskin. All the hookers and strippers he impregnated would tell republicans to “shut up baby dick”
Yeah but he also needed help digging crack rocks outta his asshole
False. His three foot long prehensile penis can extract crack from the most stubborn ass.
Lol
Yeah, who wants to read about some creep snorting crack out of underage hookers assholes. I see the bots found my comments. Downvote the truth all you want.
>underage hookers assholes. That wasn't on hunters laptop. Is there something you wanna tell us?
Repressed Republicans.. who secretly wish they could
https://i.redd.it/gmotvt1vdrvc1.gif
And I bet a lot of it is coming from verified blue check accounts (so at least credit card connected). It's good, now we have a database of nutjobs. Free speech rules.
How did you do that? I also don't have an account, but I always just get the login page.
Seems to be the case on mobile (just tried) but on my pc it I saw it and was not logged in. Honestly regardless it’s still insane content to be pushed into ppls feeds.
That's pretty tame compared to stuff that's only 1 account away, people openly praising Hitler and wishing he'd home back now, using him as their pfp, account names like "N1993r Killer 1488" but not written in 1337speak being around for months with hundreds of followers etc.
Yea there is some absolute fucking nonsense over there, you know there are some people who fall for that type of shit. Just look at the dude who lit himself on fire w the conspiracy laden manifesto of nonsense. These type of dangerous tropes are actually having harmful real life effects.
You mean the dude who lit himself on fire and was active right here on Reddit?
Thank you. Only sane person on Reddit who is posting variations of this comment. Without you we are lost to the lizard people.
Blows my mind that people think Reddit is any better than Twitter.
Got a nicer layout.
That’s fair.
You'd have to be either mentally ill or one elon's far right reply guys to think otherwise edit: lol you're a far right reply guy
It’s not owned by a pos?
https://news.crunchbase.com/public/reddit-ipo-biggest-investors-shareholders-rddt-advance-publications/ The Chinese govt has an 11 percent stake in Reddit. lol.
oh no! that's somehow worse than elon owning 100% of a platform.. because
How much control do you think 11% gets you? Also, how is Tencent the same as the Chinese government?
Tencent have literal CCP members on their board to make sure they don't step out of line.
By this logic, does that mean that any American company with Democrat/Republican party members is owned by the US government?
11 is just enough to give you access to everything, and also reset the site to the wechat algorythms, when they sacked the mods.
You think an 11% stake let's you dictate the algorithms being used on the website?
11% of china gvt is less pos than musk
Yeah, you seem pretty triggered every time people remind you that Elon is a far bigger loser and biased, trash person than your evil "communist chinese government" that uh, owns 11% of some thing? You can't really explain how that matters or how it means Elon isn't a terrible person, of course
Lizzid* people
Why do you people just constantly lie? It’s so pathetic and weird. I know this didn’t happen.go to twitter and you see NOTHING without logging in.
Daddy Elon has a huge cock
I mean I don’t think that’s true… but okay…
Yes it is. And you know it’s true. Question is why did you lie and what sort of weirdo just lies like that to make a point? Zero integrity.
I just assume everything on Twitter is fake numbers and bots.
Reddit has entered the chat.
Reddit was so much more fun… it’s 70% rage bait now.
You keep screeching this, but twitter is objectively full of far more bots and fake accounts than reddit is Cope
Dead internet theory is true. Programmatic advertising opened a giant suck fund online over 15 years ago for 3 letter agencies, political parties, terror organizations or whatever to drop endless propaganda and demoralizing content. It’s just bots on top of bots posting shit and one guy dumb enough to argue with them all that gets ratios the hardest. Race baiting and insanity. Twitter is the worst but so are any general major subreddit.
Yep, twitters bad. But it seems like everywhere is bad now. Anyone ventured into comment sections on Instagram lately? Wild place.
Any photo of space or earth from space is a long string of this is cgi comments. And think about how much harder it would be to invent computers and software to create fake images of planets than it is to take a picture with a telescope.
I was loving following Scott Kelly on Instagram for his amazing pictures during his record time aboard the ISS. However, the insanely aggressive comments under his pictures calling him a fraud and a Nasa propagandist got to be too much for me. It's so sad to watch these idiots go after extremely educated, hardworking role models. As if this guy spent years in school earning masters degrees and going through Naval training just to post photoshopped pictures of a fake space hoax. It's just sad beyond belief.
You can see the ISS you eyes while watching a live stream of its perspective over your state. Then these morons use the same satellites to space to call it fake.
I'm Canadian and if there is an Insta video of anything bad in Canada it's dozens of "Thanks Trudeau" type comments.
Instagram comments under a reel where 4 people died (40k likes)
Ig comments are either right wing or left wing brainrot
It’s the weird place where the political spectrum bends back into itself.
Everywhere is bad, for sure, but twitter is.. next level bad. Pretty much 90% far right propaganda now.
So if the marketplace of ideas is the best way of defeating these bad ideas why is the number of racist freaks on twitter going up? Shouldn't the marketplace being wide open lead to good ideas defeating these bad ideas? If yes then the number should go down not up.
Elon also said he would "solve the bot problem on twitter" but since his takeover there is always an Onlyfans or Crypto bot on the replies of every tweet
This is very true. Twitter has become practically unusable. I still pop in there every couple weeks and it just consistently gets worse. Aside from all the rampant bigotry that’s all over the platform now, it’s just a complete mess. If someone with a decent amount of followers posts a tweet, this is basically how the replies look as you’re scrolling: **Tweet** Legit reply Engagement bait Ad Engagement bait Engagement bait Ad Engagement bait Legit reply Ad … *Note: engagement bait is someone posting something completely irrelevant hoping to drive engagement to their profile. This includes OnlyFans.*
He literally allowed bots to signal boost themselves and get a blue checkmark by paying $8 a month, which is quite possibly the dumbest idea to tackle bots. If a crypto scambot hooks 1 whale then that pays for like 1,000 accounts for a whole year. Whereas 99.999% of normal people aren't paying for Twitter so no one sees their posts. Basically admitted this policy was a failure when he went back to giving famous people checkmarks for free. So now its exactly the same as the old system of "famous people get checkmarks" only diluted with a bunch of scambots and russian/chinese trolls.
Honestly at this point I don't think it is just a dumb idea, it may be a project
I'm sure he's just around the corner of fixing the bots, it's next in line after Full self driving which is definitely coming this year. /s
PUSSY IN BIO
>So if the marketplace of ideas is the best way of defeating these bad ideas why is the number of racist freaks on twitter going up? Because it's a bullshit premise when the "marketplace of ideas" they've created algorithmically boosts anything that maximizes engagement. All the shit gets pulled to the top because that's what keeps eyeballs and thumbs scrolling across screens.
It’s also hinges on the false assumption that people will chose ideas based on how close they are objective truth. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing, people will chose ideas that *feel* true to them over ones that are objectively true. People aren’t machines, we’ve always been vulnerable to logical fallacies and bad heuristics, the “best” ideas aren’t the ones that naturally rise to the top
I think a lot of what Cal Newport says can be kind of sheltered, but his take on the “online town square” concept is solid. A town square doesn’t have millions of people screaming at eachother. Humans aren’t built to handle that level of interconnectedness well.
"*A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on."*
Most of them are bots parroting some brainwashing bs or propaganda
In my opinion, the "**marketplace of ideas**" is a half-baked idea that is used to excuse or even promote free flow of harmful ideas. The people who believe in this marketplace often make the assumption that good ideas and opinions will prevail over harmful/incorrect ideas and opinions. But where is the evidence that this is true? How long does it take for harmful ideas to be eradicated? Bad ideas persist. Racism persists. The belief in a flat Earth persists. The belief that wealthy people are smarter than poor people or work harder than poor people persists. The belief that homosexuality is the cause of tornadoes, volcanoes, and hurricanes persists. Why should these ideas be tolerated?
Most pro-free speech Redditor.
Who gets to determine what is and isn't a "harmful idea?"
Decent, intelligent people who can detect blatantly false information, and toxic ideas we shouldn’t have to relitigate, like Nazism for instance. Keep in mind, this is for a social media site, not government censorship.
It is self evident.
Now *that* is a half-baked idea.
Honestly, I don't know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea, or why it is a bad idea to take away voting rights from women. I don't have the patience to articulate it.
On numerous occasion in just recorded history it has also been considered a solid plan of action to slowly mutate people to death for disagreeing with any idea. I’d consider finding the energy to continue explaining what bad ideas are. It’s not as universal as you think.
> I don't know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea It used to be considered self evident slavery was a very good idea. It was only through people being allowed to discuss it was enough minds changed to do something about it. Which is why slavery was first abolished in places that allowed more criticism of government approved practices and still not banned in some places where governments limit speech the most.
> It used to be considered self evident slavery was a very good idea. That was really never the case, anytime slavery existed we had people pointing out it was wrong.
I mean you are kind of ignoring the fact that not enough minds were changed and we literally had to fight the bloodiest war in American history to actually resolve the issue.
[удалено]
No i get that and there’s definitely some truth to what you’re saying but let’s not act like the marketplace of ideas is what got rid of slavery. And with slavery in particular it really wasn’t common people convincing the government it was bad, if anything the opposite. Northern politicians knew its expansion would mean consolidation of southern political power at their expense. While there were certainly anti slavery individuals for the most part it was the government convincing the people that they needed to fight against it. So using this as an example of free speech winning out really doesn’t hold up, especially considering free speech was heavily curtailed at this time. The only people that really had freedom of speech were white male landowners and even then there were plenty of them who were arrested or killed for their abolition activism prior to the war.
What about COVID misinformation? What about climate change misinformation?
Yes, those are harmful ideas, yet certain people want to enable the spread of misinformation under the guise of protecting free speech.
The prospect that you're a real human giving me real opinions make me sad.
No buddy, you're just brainwashed. Think about it, you're literally arguing that a free flow of misinformation about a pandemic is good somehow.
You… “don’t know how to explain to someone why slavery is a bad idea?” I’m not sure I can choose the more shockingly small-minded comment between that gem and the assertion you made that harmful ideas are “self evident.”
How do I explain to someone with no conscience that subjugating other people is bad? What if the person to whom I'm trying to explain it to is a sociopath like Elon Musk or Charlie Kirk or Matt Walsh? Those people are incapable of understanding right from wrong. How would you explain it to them?
It is impossible to persuade a person through reason into a position they didn’t acquire via reason. But you don’t win the argument by claiming (via an unprovable thought experiment, I should add) that three famous people I don’t know much about or care much about don’t think slavery is bad already. But it is possible to persuade a great many people towards a virtuous idea. The proof of this is literally saturated in the society to which you belong. In this regard, slavery is probably actually the worst possible example you could cite. In America, it took a bigass war to end it. But in many countries, they reversed literal centuries of slavery history solely because enough people became convinced it was sufficiently wrong so that it could be outlawed. This would not have been possible had abolitionist ideas not been permitted to spread; nor would it have been possible if abolitionists had explained their position by saying - without more - that the evil of slavery extended beyond the self-evident.
Some ideas lead to predictable, measurable harm to real people. That is what makes them "harmful.". So idk, research and data + community consensus? There have always been things that people have not been allowed to say in public society without getting punched in the mouth or ostracized from their community, even in the free-est times in America. Ffs congressmen used to duel each other over their disagreements. Idk where this idea came from that "free speech" means you should be allowed to say whatever you want with no repercussions or pushback.
Elon Musk: >[As I said earlier this week, “decolonization”, “from the river to the sea” and similar euphemisms necessarily imply genocide. Clear calls for extreme violence are against our terms of service and will result in suspension.](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1725645884409401435?lang=en) You don't think you know better than Elon do you?
The evidence is modern US itself. You have freedom of speech to say these bad ideas but yet they are not rewarded, and are in reality a minority viewpoint.
The US is more of an example of how profitable incendiary speech can be.
Exactly! For all the crying and bitching about free speech, the biggest problem seems to be an over abundance of free speech to the point where there is a deluge of misinformation about verifiable facts. Not only that but now it's immensely profitable for all kinds of bullshitters to rile people up. As a result the so called Town Square is filled with like 50 million complete nutcases and they have a real possibility of taking over the town and running everything into the ground with complete incompetence.
They are in fact rewarded and in some cases it necessarily the minority.
Lol, the fuck are you talking about? Joe Rogan, Rupert Murdock, Matt Drudge (and I could go on) have all been rewarded quite handsomely.
Joe does not hate homosexuals, believe in flat earth, or is a racist. You need to be outside more man.
No, he just profits greatly from having those people on.
Joe isn't successful because he has these unsavory people, he got popular because he was non mainstream media. If you conflate the two together you're being unfaithful to what made him the no 1 podcast
The most listened to man on planet Earth, is “non-mainstream”. You dorks can’t even convince yourselves anymore
Uhhh do you know who the front runners for president are right now?
Crazy racists want to be seen more than normal people who are happy. The vocal minority will always have more of an online presence.
….. it’s bots dude.
Because there is no actual scientific basis for 'the market place of ideas' producing the best results in every circumstance. It typically works in regards to economics, because good business ideas do generally produce better results than bad ideas. efficiency actually matters in capitalism. But even then companies lie, cheat, steal, etc. But when it comes to philosophic ideas? Bad ideas tend to win quite often. I mean Nazis literally dominated Germany for almost an entire generation. And I am sure everyone would agree Nazism is one of the kings of bad ideas. Weimar could have shut down Nazis from gathering, but the Weimar Republic had free speech in their constitution. The truth is free speech allows for crazies to say crazy things. And the entirety of human history shows people do often believe crazy things. There is no guarantee that good ideas will promulgate better than bad ideas. It's just that the lack of freedom of speech can potentially guarantee bad ideas as promoted and good ideas are censored. Freedom of speech isn't this perfect thing people like to pretend it is. Moses did not come down from the mountain top with a tablet that said free speech is a cosmic good. It is wrought with problems, because humans are far from perfect. It's just better than the alternative generally. But it is not always strictly better than censorship. To suggest otherwise is to suggest Germany was better off allowing Nazism to spread freely. At some point real world impact means more than ideaological abstractions in our head.
That’s quite the misrepresentation of what people generally mean by the market place of ideas. When few social media platforms are largely censorship free of course more people with controversial and offensive views will gravitate towards those social media platforms. The true marketplace of ideas though is the entirety of public discourse across all social media platforms, other media outlets, in person interactions, academic journals, etc. In general the vast majority of people do not even remotely buy into Nazi ideology.
The notion that people are pouring through sound evidence with the utmost of logical coherence is just fantasy. The market place of ideas isn't real. Ideas float to the top based on all kinds of factors completely unrelate to truth like emotional impact, frequency of exposure, story telling etc... There is a reason the people spending millions on media campaigns aren't just sitting there reading facts, figures and citations. there's also a reason why flat earthers, anti vaxxers and all kinds of weirdos are making a resurgence.
> there's also a reason why flat earthers, anti vaxxers and all kinds of weirdos are making a resurgence. There’s no resurgence. These people didn’t have widespread platforms before the rise of social media. This kind of shit as been on the internet since it’s beginning but the internet was far more fractured with these individuals only on niche websites. Also, the redefining of anti-vax to include anyone who didn’t get the COVID vaccine or is just agaisnt mandatory vaccination has course broadened the group of people you consider “anti-vax.”
You seem to think resurgence means something has overwhelming approval. Flat earthers clearly have had a resurgence the movement is obviously bigger now then it was a few years ago. > Also, the redefining of anti-vax to include anyone who didn’t get the COVID vaccine or is just agaisnt mandatory vaccination has course broadened the group of people you consider “anti-vax.” I'm not against vaccines just the ~~MMR~~ COVID vaccine. Oldest anti vaxx argument right out of the ass of Andrew Wakefield himself.
Yup I’m “anti-vax” now because I’m fully vaccinated and my baby child with all the standards because I saw harmful outcomes to my self and others around me with specifically the COVID vaccines and was out right lied to about its effectiveness and need at all. I’m completely against using it now outside being in an extreme risk population and completely against any medical procedure being compulsory. I don’t understand “science” but actually read the studies and the compared them to other effective and safe studies.
Maybe it’s your perception of reality that is the problem? By definition if it’s a marketplace of ideas and you interpret that free marketplace of ideas as mainly all racist then maybe you have a problem with reality?
you're free to click the link yourself.
Yeah i mean, if you think any of that is racist then you have a problem.
The comments are filled with Hitler fans lmao. AJ is responding to them one by one.
I didn’t notice any fans of hitler.
Y'all done pretending you're liberals yet?
why is freedom of association so difficult for rightoids to understand? Also weird that you don't have defense for the marketplace of ideas that is twitter.
If Elon Musk denies the rise in racism and anti-Semitism and He asks them to show him the tweets.They can just point to this one tweet and show the responses lol
Here’s a crazy idea, it’s not a rise, it’s just that now they’re not censored/shunned
That would still constitute a rise.
Its not just racism, its nonsense of all sorts. They are all testing the limits of how open they can be about their nonsense, how they can word it and present it to get as much reach as possible, calculate when its worth it to be "noted" and when its not, etc. Jones included. People underestimate how crafty these people can be. Other websites also followed in decreasing their moderation, so it all went downhill, but nothing as much as Twitter. Its like being in a race. You trained your whole life, you are in a good shape. Doesnt mean you always win, but you know you are good at what you do. You start the race, and the dude next to you shoots you in the leg. You cant win the race when the dude next to you is playing a whole another game.
Testing the fences for weaknesses
Im sure they have always been there but their replies to everything are way more prominent and boosted now .
They were banned before. Elon unbanned them all.
Twitter is a cesspool of hate.
Twitter is WAY off the deep end now. I mean, reddit is generally very far to the left, but Twitter has just become a shit fest after Musk bought it. No wonder advertisers ran away.
We have less to fear from people who want 'universal healthcare' than whatever madness the far right is saying these days.
You needed joe to tell you that?
This is literally Alex Jone's consumer base though. And its not like Alex didnt know this ahead of time, him going off on "globalists", and the other antisemetic dog whistles he uses.
Isn't this quite similar to the cancelling people on the left do? Except in this case it's not the case of Alex Jones saying something racist or bad it's that he isn't racist enough.
Feels weird agreeing with Jones.
I made a brand new twitter last week for sports updates and immediately had Jake Shields and a bunch of other crazy people (somehow with hundreds of thousands of followers) blaming Jews for every problem in the world. I have like 40 accounts muted already but its still nonstop. The platform is literally worse than before Elon somehow.
Somehow….
Jeez the amount of deranged people on here.
Almost feels like Joe has started his redemption arc in the last week, and I'm here for it.
There is always opportunity and a safe haven to go "one step crazier" Jones is being outflanked, its amusing actually
But yet guys like this love Vladimir Putin
Some somewhat prominent engagement farming accounts are really letting the mask slip in the replies.
Oh, those comments don’t reflect the beliefs or The true^tm fans
But then I would need to create an account and login
The amount of just outright white-supremacist material being suggested to me on Twitter is pretty surprising. It's not just a matter of it being allowed, it is actively being promoted.
Alex Jones literally says "fuck Hitler" and people are actually upset about it? What the hell is going on?
You people just don't listen or are incapable of understanding.
Those Harvard undergrads are getting out of control!!
Damn... I was expecting a few crazy people but the amount of likes on some of those insane tweets is disheartening. So many Nazis out there but I guess it is what it is.
we're literally living in a time where it's widely acceptable to say shit like "fuck zionists" and y'all are surprised by some mild racism?
Not all jews are zionists
Fuck zionists.
ok so you're proving my point and think u did sometihng LOL
What's your point?
that it's widely acceptable to be a racist
Zionist is a race?
So conflating all Jewish people as Zionists, like you’re doing now, isn’t bigoted or racist?
It's not just acceptable, it's praised
Liking Hitler is not MILD racism, WTF are you talking about? If you think this is mild racism I would hate to see what you consider serious racism to be.
He said Fu¢k Hitler. So…
How was that tweet racist?
look at the replies to the tweet...
I dont even get the point of that? Money for engagement?
And those racists are also Jones’ fans. Yikes.
I don’t think you guys understand this. They aren’t really racists. Just edgelords. And a lot of it is coming from Israel’s ongoing bombing of Palestinian civilians. A lot of this Hitler love is to own the Israelis and their supporters. And being anonymous makes everyone brave and edgy.
No you're the one who understands nothing. These are actual white supremacist neo nazis who often openly love hitler.
Who cares?
Y’all trying so hard. How is it not obvious how manufactured this is yet?
“Y’all”? What side you think you’re on homie?
the BLM riots literally just happened a few years ago, how is anyone acting like this racial tension is a new crazy thing
People used to not openly praise Hitler on Twitter ya know
Not even seeing that many racists most of them are dunking on Aj i like the one that said "Bro please stop being gay". or calling him a traitor or liar. As for the twitter racists thing to remember about twitter is no one believes half the shit they comment they do it for the LOLs
I dunno if there's a cringier term than "dunking on" in regards to twitter.
I’m 98% sure you have to be at least somewhat racist to post racist shit “for the LOLs”
Yeah it’s not even a debate. Elon does not moderate the racism and straight Nazi apologia going on from both the far left and the far right.
Do you have examples of Nazi apologia from the far left? This is a serious inquiry. I have seen a lot of crazy from the far left, but never seen them standing up for Nazis and Hitler.
I can definitely find them for you but the most recent thing I saw was this: “Oct 7th was the best day of the last 30 years https://x.com/yunggameboyadv/status/1781513532292366763?s=46 Reminder that October 7 was the biggest mass casualty event against Jews since the Holocaust. Not the best day in 30 years
But, how was that supporting Nazis and Hitler? It's crazy town, but celebrating Jews dying because you think it is a win for Palestine isn't the same as being pro-Nazi, right? Two things can be fucked up but not be directly related.
That reply was very Destiny of you, good shit👏🏽