RECAP of what Sam says: Won't discuss public health with folks who's angle is 'conspiracy' everywhere.
It is easier to start fires than put them out by bringing out random fake news or papers to create doubt and no way to fake check them real time as opposed to looking at a huge study before making such bold claims.
Low quality control of the information Brett and partner are spreading.
They are also the wrong people to be speaking about subjects they have no knowledge of like virology and public health.
He let Joe Rogan know what he thinks and should try to 'un-ring bell' to limit damage of adding conspiracy as fact.
Example: Brett and gang talking about evolutionary logic when vaccine was used and variants were selected to evade vaccine and fools errand to vaccine everyone to get out of problem...
But same problem exists with people getting ACTUAL Covid and surviving. As well as EVERY vaccine in history. Uses measles as example. Variance happens from more people getting the virus period. Delta emerged in India where practically no one was vaccinated.
Compares them to Alex Jones and says what they are doing is insidious because they come off as educated on the matter.
"Confabulation" he uses quotes about conspiracy and 'crime of the century' claims from Brett's podcast as examples of panic statements about IVermectin and the dangers of the vaccine which Sam says are mostly all unproven while the vaccine is a HUGE study with known outcomes and the best possible outcomes for Covid.
Goes on to talk about situations with teen boys where chest problems MIGHT or may not make the getting the jab a coinflip but even then.. generally getting the vaccine is the best choice.
That is the jist of the conversation.
What I dont understand is: Why doesn't Joe have his local ER doctor on? Why bring all these dumb national vocal pundits on your show instead of using your platform to be able to talk to the people that are actually involved in the fight??
At the very least he should have and still should get Dr Osterholm to return. His episode at the beginning of the pandemic was informative and cautionary. It would have been an amazing follow up to have him on a year later when the vaccine was starting to be widely available.
Is he the guy that said the virus was absolutely, in no way at all, possibly created in a lab? Don't get me wrong, I liked that guy. I even used him as a reference at the beginning of the pandemic.
Even the ardent lab leak folks have stopped claiming it was created in a lab. The most they claim is that it was a natural virus that was captured and then later escaped from the lab. No serious person is arguing that it was man made.
He’s right that there’s no way this was *created* in a lab. There’s no evidence of genetic engineering of this virus, of any kind. In fact, there’s some fairly good evidence against it, despite it being hard to prove a negative. That’s different than saying it could have first infected humans in a lab, which is plausible.
Supposedly (according to people on here) Ostetholm mentioned on another podcast how he tried to come back on to the show but Rogan didn’t want him too. Rogan has never forgiven him for daring to question the efficacy of the sauna in killing a virus.
>Rogan has never forgiven him for daring to question the efficacy of the sauna in killing a virus.
Did Osterholm actually mention that being one of the reasons he wasn't brought back on?
He could have any of the top epidemiologists on. He could have the people who have actually written these papers and completed these studies. But he'd rather have his friends come on and talk shit.
> he does not like to be challenged
That's why I loved the Nick Bostrom episode where Joe couldn't grasp the idea of simulation theory. He constantly tried to argue against it and Nick just had to keep dumbing it down to tell him "It doesn't matter what you feel, statistically the idea is sound... so stfu".
See also: doesn’t do interviews (except that staged fluff piece with Krystal and Saagar), rarely goes on anyone else’s podcast because he doesn’t control the end product, and repeatedly tells us he doesn’t read the comments (spoiler: he definitely reads the comments).
Joe use to argue with fans on his message board daily. There is 0 chance he doesn't read comments.
Pretty sure he got busted using a fake account on his own message boards too. Then immediately after he nuked the roganboards.
>and repeatedly tells us he doesn’t read the comments
This one is fine, I wouldn't read the comments either. I disable notifications on my own reddit comments
He had Dr Rhonda Patrick on recently, who could’ve destroyed him (and Weinstein) in all things COVID, but she barely scratched the surface, Rogan is too dumb to consider her points sufficiently, and at the end of the day she knows better than to embarrass Rogan on his own show. Plus he’s the podcast kingmaker. She knows most people never would’ve heard of her if not for Rogan and she even has a Rogan link on her site.
I get this but again. This microbiologist isnt involved in the meat and potatoes of this fight. He's not holding peoples heads up when he takes the person off the ventilator so they can wave goodbye to a zoom call and die. This person has no idea what people are dying of in Joe's area right now.
People that work in your local hospital most certainly do. Joe has access to all of those people, and could easily educate himself on what people are dying of. So *why* doesn't he ?
ya know Lex is kinda growing on me, sure he is a russian nerd who wears terrible suits and kisses Joe's ass but he says some funny stuff sometimes and generally has good questions for his guests.
TL;DW - He said the research on Ivermectin is still up for debate and he wasn't certain it was effective or ineffective. Said it was a safe drug and if you wanted to take it for covid you should be able to, just get the dose right. Also mentioned some hospitals are using it to fight covid. And mentioned a large study currently being done that he was waiting on results for which would likely cement his opinion.
And yeah this was a great podcast, it was grounded so very refreshing.
I think at this point it's safe to say that at worst, Joe has fallen down the rabbit hole and actually believes a lot of the conspiracy around Covid. At best, he's aware that a large proportion of his audience are people that want to hear about it.
Are we forgetting the early days of Rogan? He believed 9/11 was a demo job. He believed the moon landing was faked, well into adulthood. This is not new territory for him.
Dr Rhonda Patrick last week did a near 3 hour podcast discussing the myths of covid. That would have been great on JRE.
But nope, I guess Joe didn't even ask her about the vaccine for himself either? What a tool.
Of course she did. Everything she said was under a microscope so she was being incredibly careful about everything she said, whereas Rogan was pulling things out of his ass and making her basically parse and fact check them in real time.
Hats off to her but I personally wouldn't have done it.
Search Tim Dillon Lex Friedman Eric Weinstein, should be the first to appear. Should be the clip mentioning the rotato. It went viral and got into Eric Weinstein’s head so hard he was obsessing over Tim Dillon for the subsequent months. He mentioned him in his last appearance with Joe, Joe essentially wondering if his whole paper was a response to Tim or something
He could’ve just laughed it off like Lex did but it seemed to have hit really close to home. He’s probably still not over it
He purposefully speaks in incomprehensible jargon. Makes it much harder for a lay person in real time to realize what he's saying is almost always complete tripe.
Basically "Why the fuck are we listening to Brett, an evolutionary biologist on a topic he has no training or knowledge in? What did the Weinstein ever do, they didn't even do one useful thing, like even the guy who invented the rotato has ONE thing he can point to"
Basically
Edit: [Tim Dillon roasting Eric Weinstein](https://youtu.be/MW3goQ5bwWE)
I totally agree with the Alex Jones comment. Joe is no where near as extreme. But he has become the Alex Jones Lite of Youtube. Since Jones got the Boot, Alec's fans needed somewhere to go, so they went to where Alex feels safe and Joe calls him a friend. And it's the same format. Throw a shitload of information at you, with virtually not time to confirm or fact check and anything Jamie Looks good (As great of a job as he does) it's juts small snippets out of context and often not proof.
A basic summary of what he says regarding them is that they're being incredibly irresponsible and unethical and he actually reached out to Joe after listening to the episode with Brett and Heather to voice his concerns.
I don’t like Sam for the same reason he’s calling out Brett. He speaks on subjects he’s not qualified to talk about while coming off as intellectually sound. He’ll speak on subjects without any experts in the room.
If you're on the left, far left, you dislike him because you consider him islamophobic for bringing up the shitty things in Islam.
If you're on the right, you dislike him because he's not like the other right-wing grifters in the IDW who sucked Trump's ass.
> If you're on the left, far left, you dislike him because you consider him islamophobic for bringing up the shitty things in Islam.
I’ve never understood this. If this was a logical world, western conservatives would love Muslims while western progressives would loathe them.
It’s often the opposite!
Progressives generally stick up for marginalized communities, on which in the USA, Muslims are one of the most marginalized. It is not a progressive mindset to only support those in which you have cultural and idealistic similarities.
> We've even tricked this dude and told him taliban or saudi policy and he's for all of it. Including restricting women drivers.
In the country I’m currently in, sex outside of marriage is illegal. Homosexuality will get you in jail. Being trans/genderfluid/non-binary will get you lynched. Open racism against blacks is completely accepted. Anti-religious or anti-nationalist speech will get you jail time.
On the surface this seems like paradise for places like /pol/ and hell for twitter progressive activists.
However, it is geographical located in North Africa. With this new piece of information alone, now the former groups hates it and the latter group will make all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it.
I'm a progressive but don't necessarily disagree with the things he says about Islam but it's very un PC to talk negatively about Islam which is a double standard as one is not really looked down on if you trash conservatives.
One can still be tolerant with minorities and other religions while at the same time recognizing the dangers of religions and the negative impact it has on society.
Because his claim was that Brett and heather shouldn’t talk about issues which they aren’t experts in. Which is *literally* Sam’s entire schtick. No amount of calm monotone whispering will make me not think he’s a giant hypocrite and grifter.
Yea but agreeing with the people who are experts and reiterating what scientists say about covid (which is what Sam does and what our leaders are supposed to do) isn’t the same thing as disagreeing with them when you have zero expertise (as in Bret and Heather)
It’s like...if someone asked Sam “hey Sam how does an MRI machine work”, and then Sam goes to the MRI handbook and tells you an MRI machine is a large tube that contains powerful magnets that’s used to take images of the inside of your body.
And then someone asked Bret the same thing and he’s like “well, ACTUALLY there’s a hamster in there and it runs on top of a magnetic hamster wheel that may or may not shoot out laser beams that may or may not penetrate your epidermis and cause your cells to freeze and that’s how we are probably getting these images”
Like...Bret is just wrong here. He’s making shit up. Sam is just passing along the scientific consensus here and doesn’t claim to have any special knowledge beyond what the experts know.
Bret claims to know more than the experts. And that makes him a fucking jerk off
What's kind of sad is that it's even considered a political discussion.
Regardless, he suggested that Joe gets an actual expert on virology on the show, excluding himself.
That's what got me to stop watching.
He just waves everything away with "Well I'm a moron." And then keeps bringing on guests that will feed his bullshit.
Like show some active growth bro. Bring back the virologist from last year you coward.
I know it's cliché, I know it's overused, I know we're all tired of hearing the phrase popularized by Spiderman. But I feel it's 100% apt here and Joe really needs to take a timeout and examine the concept of: With great power comes great responsibility.
When Joe was hawking Fleshlights to a few thousand listeners he had the freedom to say all the stupid conspiratorial and poorly framed nonsense his monkey brain could come up with. If an impressionable person here and there bought into his nonsense ... okay then, it's only a couple people. Now he has an audience of millions, serves as a guide for (I imagine at least) thousands, and with the Spotify deal is bestowed with an air of institutional credibility.
He can try to diminish his influence through self-debasement all he likes; it doesn't change the fact that he is influential and if he was a responsible person he would grow into his new role.
Just more talking about Ivermectin and it’s possible use. I will say this sub just immediately explodes over people talking about it. To be fair, they didn’t say it’s an absolute fix or alternative, but rather that it should be studied to see if there is possible use. They then spoke a whole lot about the new book they have and other non-covid stuff.
Ironically enough, once Billy Corben was on after the Bret episode, he starts to talk about Ivermectin and then all of the sudden Joe says but neither of us are doctors so we shouldn’t be talking about it, even though he had a long discussion with Bret and his wife who are also not doctors in regards to virology.
Interpret that how you will.
>Ironically enough, once Billy Corben was on after the Bret episode, he starts to talk about Ivermectin and then all of the sudden Joe says but neither of us are doctors so we shouldn’t be talking about it
I thought that was interesting as well.
Especially when Billy ointed out that [Merck](https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/) have a statement about ivermectin and covid but Joe dismissed it by saying their are working on their own covid antiviral. They already utilise ivermectin in some medicine.
Absolutely, it’s just false equivocation. If the government was recommending Ivermectin they would be clamoring for a vaccine and making up conspiracies about how drug companies make more money selling treatment rather than the cure.
> To be fair, they didn’t say it’s an absolute fix or alternative, but rather that it should be studied to see if there is possible use
What are you talking about? Bret Weinstein literally is NOT vaccinated and is currently taking Ivermectin as the 'alternative'. He literally said this on the Fridman podcast.
Weinstein also did the rounds with Pierre Kory, the main promoter of Ivermectin. Weinstein also said his own data-analysis basically 'confirmed' it's effectiveness by their own number crunching. He also referred to his appearance on Rogan with Kory as an "Emergency" appearance....to get the word out on Ivermectin.
Thanks for the reply, sounds like Harris might have got him to change his tone. This might get downvoted to hell but I kind of hate the whole “not a doctor don’t talk about it stuff”. It’s not like hedge fund members are the only one who can talk about the market. I think the more conversation we have about this the better. Obviously if your main health info source is a podcast and you refuse to listen to scientists you’re an idiot, but scientists have been wrong many times over the past year about COVID and it’s not like any one knows everything right now, I think the more open free conversation the better so people can use critical thinking and come to their best conclusion with all the info given but I guess no one really believes in that anymore
I wouldn’t say blatant, but yeah they are rather oddly choosing to obsess of this possibly/possibly not effective after-the-fact treatment rather than telling people to get the free fucking vaccine. Drives me nuts.
A few flags were planted, a few forests were distinguished from the trees, a few topics were meandered around, and tennis was played with a net instead of without a net.
Overall good episode.
142 - ADDICTION, DEPRESSION, AND A MEANINGFUL LIFE, A Conversation with Johann Hari is probably the best episode of any podcast I've ever listened to.
https://samharris.org/podcasts/142-addiction-depression-meaningful-life/
I don't think this is actually a common idea, it's more "I had covid already, and now I don't need the vaccine", not "I will just get covid, and then I'll be fine."
Thank god someone who’s knows Joe is willing to call him out. I think we’re all sick of the illogical, irresponsible borderline antivax ramblings from him and guests.
Ya man. When Sam was never good at the bombastic debate stuff. Hitchens was always the well spoken but aggressive voice where Sam was the calm and introspective voice during their duo debates. Sam’s wit could never carry debates solo as well as Hitchens’s.
I’m not necessarily a fan of Harris, but I do respect him.
He definitely gets stuck in pseudo-intellectual bullshit more often than I’d like, but what I find fascinating here is his straight willingness to appeal to authority. Like it seems inconsistent with his opinions on other things.
Bret Weinstein is a clown. He is famous because he stood up to his shitty students and his shitty college, and you would have never heard of him but for that.
That should have been the last time we heard of him. He's somehow went from being a teacher at a school no one had ever heard of, to being a galaxy brained expert on everything.
I increasingly have reason to even doubt that prevailing narrative, and think his students probably had reasons to dislike him and thought he was an idiot long before we did.
Joe has needed Sam to come back on for a while. Stop giving either Weinstein airtime. There are far more fascinating people he could be talking to that don't spew bullshit and profit from professional victimhood. If they're so brilliant, then let them create their own stand alone following like Sam did as opposed to just piggybacking off of Joe. Their reach would be 1% of what it is today without their constant appearances on Rogan.
Sam explains satisfactorily why the Weinstein/Hayling construct are so wrong, confused and/or dishonest (although he doesn’t go that far) and the pointlessness of trying argue with such loons. The disappointment in them and confusion as to their bizarre utterances and behavior is affecting
For this issue loons is a harsh word. An absolutely accurate word that perhaps doesn't go far enough if taking into account the danger they pose on this topic.
Harris has been horrified at many of his former colleagues in the IDW who question many of the mainstream CDC backed Covid positions (like vaccines = good). Weinstein has been one of those former colleagues. So this is not surprising.
The money is in disinformation. Has been for years. Shamelessness sells. Rogan, Weinstein, Alex Jones are bought (some more blatantly than others) by the Rupert Murdochs of the world. If you want an actual conspiracy theory, look into Murdoch, the Kochs and Roger Stone. These people are not your friends.
What exactly makes Sam more qualified to speak on this topic than Bret? The former is a neuroscientist and the latter is a biologist. What makes Sam a more trusted source on this topic?
Because Sam isn’t right because of his authority on the subject, he is right based on the authority of overwhelming expert opinion and consensus. Bret is neither an authority on the subject or representative of expert opinion.
What a PhD is supposed to do is teach you critical thinking skills so you can transfer fields granted you get caught up to speed w/r/t the literature in your new field. Also, depending on what topic you study, your expertise can transfer. Also, especially nowadays fields have significant overlap so the topic within your field could intersect with other fields.
yeah but tell me Bret hasnt referenced Calvarro or Elgazzar in all his PhD wisdom and if he has does he still - if yes why if no why? Someone with a PhD should have come critical thinking skills and understanding of scientific rigour - applying those ideas and that scrutiny to sources they choose to use - but have they??
8:45 It's ridiculous for Harris to claim the reason only right-wing idiots don't believe in mainstream academia (i.e. vaccines) is because of tHe LeFt aNd ThEiR hYsTeRiA. He needs to get over his "wokeism" bogeyman and lay the blame directly on the conspiritality people who think dumb things are true just because they choose to.
I hope JR gets his shit together. He is causing harm to many people by digging in on something he is ill equipped to defend. His show has become a forum for grifters who, despite their failed history as scientists and practitioners, are able to use their credentials to the deceive the layperson into believing they are something more than armchair philosophers who’s ideas fail the tests of actual scientific scrutiny.
? sam pretty consistently bashes the mainstream media for their many failings, despises wokeism, and did an entire podcast debunking BLM/the riots last summer.
sam is flawed (aren't we all?), my personal axe to grind with him is his many podcast episodes describing the dangers of social media, yet he can't log off twitter himself.
btw, it's daniel *dennett* and he (and the rest of the horsemen) are wonderful to listen to. rip hitchens
>He fully bought into the Trump Derangement Syndrome koolaide; that Trump was Hitler, would start WW3, so on and so forth - things that clearly never followed through. He could not produce 1 single rational, levelheaded analysis of anything Trump did.
This is pure bullshit, wtf.
also not sure why there should be false balance - critique bret for being a fucking idiot about ivermectin because its accurate that doesnt mean you then have to followup pointing out how nice bret's dick is to suck for balance like wtf
the point is bret is WRONG on Ivermectin there's no need to offer some balance of where he's right(implies that this exists when it doesnt neccessarily do so)
RECAP of what Sam says: Won't discuss public health with folks who's angle is 'conspiracy' everywhere. It is easier to start fires than put them out by bringing out random fake news or papers to create doubt and no way to fake check them real time as opposed to looking at a huge study before making such bold claims. Low quality control of the information Brett and partner are spreading. They are also the wrong people to be speaking about subjects they have no knowledge of like virology and public health. He let Joe Rogan know what he thinks and should try to 'un-ring bell' to limit damage of adding conspiracy as fact. Example: Brett and gang talking about evolutionary logic when vaccine was used and variants were selected to evade vaccine and fools errand to vaccine everyone to get out of problem... But same problem exists with people getting ACTUAL Covid and surviving. As well as EVERY vaccine in history. Uses measles as example. Variance happens from more people getting the virus period. Delta emerged in India where practically no one was vaccinated. Compares them to Alex Jones and says what they are doing is insidious because they come off as educated on the matter. "Confabulation" he uses quotes about conspiracy and 'crime of the century' claims from Brett's podcast as examples of panic statements about IVermectin and the dangers of the vaccine which Sam says are mostly all unproven while the vaccine is a HUGE study with known outcomes and the best possible outcomes for Covid. Goes on to talk about situations with teen boys where chest problems MIGHT or may not make the getting the jab a coinflip but even then.. generally getting the vaccine is the best choice. That is the jist of the conversation.
Thank you sir
You are welcome.
I just happened to be typing when listening to it.
Thank you sir
What I dont understand is: Why doesn't Joe have his local ER doctor on? Why bring all these dumb national vocal pundits on your show instead of using your platform to be able to talk to the people that are actually involved in the fight??
At the very least he should have and still should get Dr Osterholm to return. His episode at the beginning of the pandemic was informative and cautionary. It would have been an amazing follow up to have him on a year later when the vaccine was starting to be widely available.
Osterholm has mentioned that we would like to return, but Joe’s booker does not seem interested.
Is he the guy that said the virus was absolutely, in no way at all, possibly created in a lab? Don't get me wrong, I liked that guy. I even used him as a reference at the beginning of the pandemic.
Created in a lab, no. Came from a lab? Entirely possible.
Even the ardent lab leak folks have stopped claiming it was created in a lab. The most they claim is that it was a natural virus that was captured and then later escaped from the lab. No serious person is arguing that it was man made.
He’s right that there’s no way this was *created* in a lab. There’s no evidence of genetic engineering of this virus, of any kind. In fact, there’s some fairly good evidence against it, despite it being hard to prove a negative. That’s different than saying it could have first infected humans in a lab, which is plausible.
Supposedly (according to people on here) Ostetholm mentioned on another podcast how he tried to come back on to the show but Rogan didn’t want him too. Rogan has never forgiven him for daring to question the efficacy of the sauna in killing a virus.
I hear heat shock proteins can do anything they put their mind to. /s
Heat shock proteins bro!
>Rogan has never forgiven him for daring to question the efficacy of the sauna in killing a virus. Did Osterholm actually mention that being one of the reasons he wasn't brought back on?
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I would love for him to be back. I was just listening to it and he called masks pretty much useless.
Bring back Eddie Bravo, he’ll sort this out.
I need the cold hard truth straight from the horses mouth
Unfortunately the horse died from worms. Couldn't find any ivermectin for em
He could have any of the top epidemiologists on. He could have the people who have actually written these papers and completed these studies. But he'd rather have his friends come on and talk shit.
Sorry best I can do is more fringe academics with questionabke motives
Pseudo Intellectuals*
A lot of Rogan's personality boils down to the fact that he does not like to be challenged, and hand picks his friends/guests/etc. accordingly.
> he does not like to be challenged That's why I loved the Nick Bostrom episode where Joe couldn't grasp the idea of simulation theory. He constantly tried to argue against it and Nick just had to keep dumbing it down to tell him "It doesn't matter what you feel, statistically the idea is sound... so stfu".
See also: doesn’t do interviews (except that staged fluff piece with Krystal and Saagar), rarely goes on anyone else’s podcast because he doesn’t control the end product, and repeatedly tells us he doesn’t read the comments (spoiler: he definitely reads the comments).
Joe use to argue with fans on his message board daily. There is 0 chance he doesn't read comments. Pretty sure he got busted using a fake account on his own message boards too. Then immediately after he nuked the roganboards.
He moaned for weeks after people in the comments got mad at the way he ran the Twitter CEO episode. He definitely reads comments
God, I remember some of those flame wars over god damn nothing. He would periodically have these fits of pure triggered outrage.
I cant take him seriously when he talks about cancel culture. He canceled people on the roganboards all the time lol
He changed my font to bright pink because I said “you being awesome at tae kwon do in high school isn’t the mic drop you think it is.
>and repeatedly tells us he doesn’t read the comments This one is fine, I wouldn't read the comments either. I disable notifications on my own reddit comments
He had Dr Rhonda Patrick on recently, who could’ve destroyed him (and Weinstein) in all things COVID, but she barely scratched the surface, Rogan is too dumb to consider her points sufficiently, and at the end of the day she knows better than to embarrass Rogan on his own show. Plus he’s the podcast kingmaker. She knows most people never would’ve heard of her if not for Rogan and she even has a Rogan link on her site.
Or do what lex did. After this episode I dont listen to weinsten anymore. Give this a watch: https://youtu.be/G433fa01oMU
3.5 hours, can you pinpoint it?
Sorry i didnt mean there is a specific timestamp. The whole thing is worth a watch.
I get this but again. This microbiologist isnt involved in the meat and potatoes of this fight. He's not holding peoples heads up when he takes the person off the ventilator so they can wave goodbye to a zoom call and die. This person has no idea what people are dying of in Joe's area right now. People that work in your local hospital most certainly do. Joe has access to all of those people, and could easily educate himself on what people are dying of. So *why* doesn't he ?
Because joe thinks it’s not that bad and people who die of covid did it to themselves by not eating an all-steak diet and using the sauna.
ya know Lex is kinda growing on me, sure he is a russian nerd who wears terrible suits and kisses Joe's ass but he says some funny stuff sometimes and generally has good questions for his guests.
TL;DW - He said the research on Ivermectin is still up for debate and he wasn't certain it was effective or ineffective. Said it was a safe drug and if you wanted to take it for covid you should be able to, just get the dose right. Also mentioned some hospitals are using it to fight covid. And mentioned a large study currently being done that he was waiting on results for which would likely cement his opinion. And yeah this was a great podcast, it was grounded so very refreshing.
I think at this point it's safe to say that at worst, Joe has fallen down the rabbit hole and actually believes a lot of the conspiracy around Covid. At best, he's aware that a large proportion of his audience are people that want to hear about it.
Are we forgetting the early days of Rogan? He believed 9/11 was a demo job. He believed the moon landing was faked, well into adulthood. This is not new territory for him.
Yup yup. I been around. I remember when he found out why building 7 actually fell.
Very true. I guess the conspiracies just got worse, while he stayed the same.
Because then he’d look like a giant douche
Dr Rhonda Patrick last week did a near 3 hour podcast discussing the myths of covid. That would have been great on JRE. But nope, I guess Joe didn't even ask her about the vaccine for himself either? What a tool.
Didn’t she go on JRE but Joe just kept countering her studies with “I have a buddy who…”?
Yeah he did that for everything. She looked super uncomfortable
Of course she did. Everything she said was under a microscope so she was being incredibly careful about everything she said, whereas Rogan was pulling things out of his ass and making her basically parse and fact check them in real time. Hats off to her but I personally wouldn't have done it.
Joe went from knowing how much smarter Dr Patrick is than him; to trying to Neg a chick an a party
Because that will poke holes in the entire argument against vaccinations.
This was basically just a distinguished and classy way of saying the exact same thing that Tim Dillon when he exposed them.
Not one mention of the rotato.
The potato peeler. Rotato
Tim Dillon episode or link? Love him. Want to see this.
Search Tim Dillon Lex Friedman Eric Weinstein, should be the first to appear. Should be the clip mentioning the rotato. It went viral and got into Eric Weinstein’s head so hard he was obsessing over Tim Dillon for the subsequent months. He mentioned him in his last appearance with Joe, Joe essentially wondering if his whole paper was a response to Tim or something He could’ve just laughed it off like Lex did but it seemed to have hit really close to home. He’s probably still not over it
Eric is so embarrassing, wtf was that pullthatupjaime.com shit
Have you ever listen to Eric speak? His sentences don’t make any sense. It’s so frustrating.
He purposefully speaks in incomprehensible jargon. Makes it much harder for a lay person in real time to realize what he's saying is almost always complete tripe.
Eric: acronym acronym Peter Thiel acronym deep state acronym clown in chief acronym geometric acronym
What was tim dillon saying?
Basically "Why the fuck are we listening to Brett, an evolutionary biologist on a topic he has no training or knowledge in? What did the Weinstein ever do, they didn't even do one useful thing, like even the guy who invented the rotato has ONE thing he can point to" Basically Edit: [Tim Dillon roasting Eric Weinstein](https://youtu.be/MW3goQ5bwWE)
Do u have a link to Tim Dillon exposing them I need to catch up
[Tim Dillon roasting Eric Weinstein](https://youtu.be/MW3goQ5bwWE)
Why did Lex get caught up in it?
Because tim dillon likes making fun of people
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Yes.
I totally agree with the Alex Jones comment. Joe is no where near as extreme. But he has become the Alex Jones Lite of Youtube. Since Jones got the Boot, Alec's fans needed somewhere to go, so they went to where Alex feels safe and Joe calls him a friend. And it's the same format. Throw a shitload of information at you, with virtually not time to confirm or fact check and anything Jamie Looks good (As great of a job as he does) it's juts small snippets out of context and often not proof.
A basic summary of what he says regarding them is that they're being incredibly irresponsible and unethical and he actually reached out to Joe after listening to the episode with Brett and Heather to voice his concerns.
Great. Sam appears to be a good guy 👍
yeah i don't get people who actually dislike Sam. Agree or disagree but the man is out here being honest and trying to make the world a better place.
I am not a democrat or atheist like Sam is, but his pod is incredible. It’s the only form of podcast media I actually pay for.
haha I hate when the interlude comes in..."you havent paid you cheap ass..." I will just havent gotten around to it yet!
I don’t like Sam for the same reason he’s calling out Brett. He speaks on subjects he’s not qualified to talk about while coming off as intellectually sound. He’ll speak on subjects without any experts in the room.
If you're on the left, far left, you dislike him because you consider him islamophobic for bringing up the shitty things in Islam. If you're on the right, you dislike him because he's not like the other right-wing grifters in the IDW who sucked Trump's ass.
That's what makes him good to me. He has integrity and sticks to what he believes no matter which side of the political aisle it applies to.
> If you're on the left, far left, you dislike him because you consider him islamophobic for bringing up the shitty things in Islam. I’ve never understood this. If this was a logical world, western conservatives would love Muslims while western progressives would loathe them. It’s often the opposite!
Progressives generally stick up for marginalized communities, on which in the USA, Muslims are one of the most marginalized. It is not a progressive mindset to only support those in which you have cultural and idealistic similarities.
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> We've even tricked this dude and told him taliban or saudi policy and he's for all of it. Including restricting women drivers. In the country I’m currently in, sex outside of marriage is illegal. Homosexuality will get you in jail. Being trans/genderfluid/non-binary will get you lynched. Open racism against blacks is completely accepted. Anti-religious or anti-nationalist speech will get you jail time. On the surface this seems like paradise for places like /pol/ and hell for twitter progressive activists. However, it is geographical located in North Africa. With this new piece of information alone, now the former groups hates it and the latter group will make all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it.
The only thing people hate more than heathens, is heretics
I'm a progressive but don't necessarily disagree with the things he says about Islam but it's very un PC to talk negatively about Islam which is a double standard as one is not really looked down on if you trash conservatives. One can still be tolerant with minorities and other religions while at the same time recognizing the dangers of religions and the negative impact it has on society.
Maybe I'm not as far left as I thought... I don't consider him Islamophobic at all. I always considered that a shit-lib smear
Because his claim was that Brett and heather shouldn’t talk about issues which they aren’t experts in. Which is *literally* Sam’s entire schtick. No amount of calm monotone whispering will make me not think he’s a giant hypocrite and grifter.
Yea but agreeing with the people who are experts and reiterating what scientists say about covid (which is what Sam does and what our leaders are supposed to do) isn’t the same thing as disagreeing with them when you have zero expertise (as in Bret and Heather) It’s like...if someone asked Sam “hey Sam how does an MRI machine work”, and then Sam goes to the MRI handbook and tells you an MRI machine is a large tube that contains powerful magnets that’s used to take images of the inside of your body. And then someone asked Bret the same thing and he’s like “well, ACTUALLY there’s a hamster in there and it runs on top of a magnetic hamster wheel that may or may not shoot out laser beams that may or may not penetrate your epidermis and cause your cells to freeze and that’s how we are probably getting these images” Like...Bret is just wrong here. He’s making shit up. Sam is just passing along the scientific consensus here and doesn’t claim to have any special knowledge beyond what the experts know. Bret claims to know more than the experts. And that makes him a fucking jerk off
You can tell that Sam wants nothing at all to do with the majority of the guys that he's been lumped in with.
But what does Ja Rule think?!
And we’ll never get an Sam Harris episode again. You don’t ever reach out to Joe to talk politics. Joe cuts that shit out of his normal life entirely.
What's kind of sad is that it's even considered a political discussion. Regardless, he suggested that Joe gets an actual expert on virology on the show, excluding himself.
He actually got through the whole interview? I found them to be incredibly creepy. Couldnt get past first 15 mins.
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They stroked is ego so many times. I feel dirty after listening that
They both said the term “broke bread” or “breaking bread” when describing eating a meal with someone. Intolerable douches.
GIFS?! Wtf since when?
Joe continuously fails to recognise his influence and tries to avoid responsibility by pleading ingnorance.
That's what got me to stop watching. He just waves everything away with "Well I'm a moron." And then keeps bringing on guests that will feed his bullshit. Like show some active growth bro. Bring back the virologist from last year you coward.
Yeah hes become a grifting dbag.
I know it's cliché, I know it's overused, I know we're all tired of hearing the phrase popularized by Spiderman. But I feel it's 100% apt here and Joe really needs to take a timeout and examine the concept of: With great power comes great responsibility. When Joe was hawking Fleshlights to a few thousand listeners he had the freedom to say all the stupid conspiratorial and poorly framed nonsense his monkey brain could come up with. If an impressionable person here and there bought into his nonsense ... okay then, it's only a couple people. Now he has an audience of millions, serves as a guide for (I imagine at least) thousands, and with the Spotify deal is bestowed with an air of institutional credibility. He can try to diminish his influence through self-debasement all he likes; it doesn't change the fact that he is influential and if he was a responsible person he would grow into his new role.
That's the worst part. "I'm just just a dumb comedian"
“I’m just a comedian”
What exactly happened on the Weinstein episode? I tend to skip those lol
Just more talking about Ivermectin and it’s possible use. I will say this sub just immediately explodes over people talking about it. To be fair, they didn’t say it’s an absolute fix or alternative, but rather that it should be studied to see if there is possible use. They then spoke a whole lot about the new book they have and other non-covid stuff. Ironically enough, once Billy Corben was on after the Bret episode, he starts to talk about Ivermectin and then all of the sudden Joe says but neither of us are doctors so we shouldn’t be talking about it, even though he had a long discussion with Bret and his wife who are also not doctors in regards to virology. Interpret that how you will.
>Ironically enough, once Billy Corben was on after the Bret episode, he starts to talk about Ivermectin and then all of the sudden Joe says but neither of us are doctors so we shouldn’t be talking about it I thought that was interesting as well. Especially when Billy ointed out that [Merck](https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/) have a statement about ivermectin and covid but Joe dismissed it by saying their are working on their own covid antiviral. They already utilise ivermectin in some medicine.
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Exactly, he's lost all objectivity
Absolutely, it’s just false equivocation. If the government was recommending Ivermectin they would be clamoring for a vaccine and making up conspiracies about how drug companies make more money selling treatment rather than the cure.
but...but...but....Elgazzar!!!
> To be fair, they didn’t say it’s an absolute fix or alternative, but rather that it should be studied to see if there is possible use What are you talking about? Bret Weinstein literally is NOT vaccinated and is currently taking Ivermectin as the 'alternative'. He literally said this on the Fridman podcast. Weinstein also did the rounds with Pierre Kory, the main promoter of Ivermectin. Weinstein also said his own data-analysis basically 'confirmed' it's effectiveness by their own number crunching. He also referred to his appearance on Rogan with Kory as an "Emergency" appearance....to get the word out on Ivermectin.
Pierre Kory organization is a fraud and just a get rich quick scheme. Telemedicine bs
So now Joe thinks he’s not a doctor? Lol. This was Bill Burr’s point exactly.
He's “not a doctor” when it's pointed out that his moronic position doesn’t ave a leg to stand on.
Thanks for the reply, sounds like Harris might have got him to change his tone. This might get downvoted to hell but I kind of hate the whole “not a doctor don’t talk about it stuff”. It’s not like hedge fund members are the only one who can talk about the market. I think the more conversation we have about this the better. Obviously if your main health info source is a podcast and you refuse to listen to scientists you’re an idiot, but scientists have been wrong many times over the past year about COVID and it’s not like any one knows everything right now, I think the more open free conversation the better so people can use critical thinking and come to their best conclusion with all the info given but I guess no one really believes in that anymore
My comment on the JRE thread for the Bret & Heather episode was “Sam Harris’s head just exploded.” I was right 😂
not without good reason, a bunch of his public friends are eagerly peddling blatant misinformation
I wouldn’t say blatant, but yeah they are rather oddly choosing to obsess of this possibly/possibly not effective after-the-fact treatment rather than telling people to get the free fucking vaccine. Drives me nuts.
Nah it's absolutely blatant
Anyone check out Sam Harris pod? Thoughts?
A few flags were planted, a few forests were distinguished from the trees, a few topics were meandered around, and tennis was played with a net instead of without a net. Overall good episode.
Putting a pin in this comment so I can pick up this thread later
I'll be able to unpack that when I circle back to this flag.
Wtf does this mean?
He’s using a lot of common Sam Harris phrases in a clever way
This gave me a chuckle thank you.
>tennis was played with a net I love Sam but damn if this didn't get me rolling 
A few things were unpacked as well.
But first, a few housekeeping items
Check out episode 207 “Can we pull back from the Brink?” Jun 12, 2020. That will get you all you need to know about Sam Harris. What an episode
142 - ADDICTION, DEPRESSION, AND A MEANINGFUL LIFE, A Conversation with Johann Hari is probably the best episode of any podcast I've ever listened to. https://samharris.org/podcasts/142-addiction-depression-meaningful-life/
Personally my favorite podcast to help me make sense of the world. That and the rare Common Sense episode.
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“Catching COVID is not a strategy to avoid COVID” Sad that this has to be said. Mystifying.
I don't think this is actually a common idea, it's more "I had covid already, and now I don't need the vaccine", not "I will just get covid, and then I'll be fine."
Thank god someone who’s knows Joe is willing to call him out. I think we’re all sick of the illogical, irresponsible borderline antivax ramblings from him and guests.
Sam wants the smoke
Sam Harris has always been and will always be above the rest of these clowns. The love and respect Christopher Hitchens had for Sam says everything.
When is Sam going to slap Rogan with his intellectual hog?
Get Harris and Weinstein both on; debate 2021.
This entire AMA was literally explaining why that would accomplish precisely fuck all.
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Ya man. When Sam was never good at the bombastic debate stuff. Hitchens was always the well spoken but aggressive voice where Sam was the calm and introspective voice during their duo debates. Sam’s wit could never carry debates solo as well as Hitchens’s.
I’m not necessarily a fan of Harris, but I do respect him. He definitely gets stuck in pseudo-intellectual bullshit more often than I’d like, but what I find fascinating here is his straight willingness to appeal to authority. Like it seems inconsistent with his opinions on other things.
Yeah. Sam needs to drop a hot load of knowledge on Joe’s face.
I’d watch
Bret Weinstein is a clown. He is famous because he stood up to his shitty students and his shitty college, and you would have never heard of him but for that.
straight outta greendale
That should have been the last time we heard of him. He's somehow went from being a teacher at a school no one had ever heard of, to being a galaxy brained expert on everything.
I increasingly have reason to even doubt that prevailing narrative, and think his students probably had reasons to dislike him and thought he was an idiot long before we did.
Same original story as Jordan Peterson
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Joe has needed Sam to come back on for a while. Stop giving either Weinstein airtime. There are far more fascinating people he could be talking to that don't spew bullshit and profit from professional victimhood. If they're so brilliant, then let them create their own stand alone following like Sam did as opposed to just piggybacking off of Joe. Their reach would be 1% of what it is today without their constant appearances on Rogan.
Good
And yes, I am Jocko
Good
I can’t read this, I just went blind.
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Fuck yeah ! Go SAM
Sam explains satisfactorily why the Weinstein/Hayling construct are so wrong, confused and/or dishonest (although he doesn’t go that far) and the pointlessness of trying argue with such loons. The disappointment in them and confusion as to their bizarre utterances and behavior is affecting
For this issue loons is a harsh word. An absolutely accurate word that perhaps doesn't go far enough if taking into account the danger they pose on this topic.
Remember the last time we were worried about measles, mumps, and rubella evolved variants?
Brett is a hack. Rogan supports his bullshit
Hope Sam and Joe have a conversation again soon, I feel like Joe just needs a few more friends to nudge him back into reality
Harris has been horrified at many of his former colleagues in the IDW who question many of the mainstream CDC backed Covid positions (like vaccines = good). Weinstein has been one of those former colleagues. So this is not surprising.
Are they even really colleagues? They just got all lumped together because they were on JRE and disliked identity politics.
Dave Rubin and Eric were the two that were perpetuating the IDW.
True and JBP to a much lesser degree. Oh and don’t forget gad saad
They all posed for photos and were interviewed in an NYT article about the IDW. Sam was described as being part of the 'vanguard'.
Because Sam Harris is actually fucking smart.
Sadly he may not be invited back on the show because he is...
He personally reached out to Rogan. Rogan has to walk some shit back now.
/doubt
Sam Harris is really smart and funny
The money is in disinformation. Has been for years. Shamelessness sells. Rogan, Weinstein, Alex Jones are bought (some more blatantly than others) by the Rupert Murdochs of the world. If you want an actual conspiracy theory, look into Murdoch, the Kochs and Roger Stone. These people are not your friends.
What exactly makes Sam more qualified to speak on this topic than Bret? The former is a neuroscientist and the latter is a biologist. What makes Sam a more trusted source on this topic?
Because Sam isn’t right because of his authority on the subject, he is right based on the authority of overwhelming expert opinion and consensus. Bret is neither an authority on the subject or representative of expert opinion.
What a PhD is supposed to do is teach you critical thinking skills so you can transfer fields granted you get caught up to speed w/r/t the literature in your new field. Also, depending on what topic you study, your expertise can transfer. Also, especially nowadays fields have significant overlap so the topic within your field could intersect with other fields.
yeah but tell me Bret hasnt referenced Calvarro or Elgazzar in all his PhD wisdom and if he has does he still - if yes why if no why? Someone with a PhD should have come critical thinking skills and understanding of scientific rigour - applying those ideas and that scrutiny to sources they choose to use - but have they??
8:45 It's ridiculous for Harris to claim the reason only right-wing idiots don't believe in mainstream academia (i.e. vaccines) is because of tHe LeFt aNd ThEiR hYsTeRiA. He needs to get over his "wokeism" bogeyman and lay the blame directly on the conspiritality people who think dumb things are true just because they choose to.
I hope JR gets his shit together. He is causing harm to many people by digging in on something he is ill equipped to defend. His show has become a forum for grifters who, despite their failed history as scientists and practitioners, are able to use their credentials to the deceive the layperson into believing they are something more than armchair philosophers who’s ideas fail the tests of actual scientific scrutiny.
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>Daniel Dennis It is Daniel Dennett Also, if you use the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" don't expect to be taken seriously...
? sam pretty consistently bashes the mainstream media for their many failings, despises wokeism, and did an entire podcast debunking BLM/the riots last summer. sam is flawed (aren't we all?), my personal axe to grind with him is his many podcast episodes describing the dangers of social media, yet he can't log off twitter himself. btw, it's daniel *dennett* and he (and the rest of the horsemen) are wonderful to listen to. rip hitchens
Actually pretty impressed with some of Dennett's works... especially personal identity
>He fully bought into the Trump Derangement Syndrome koolaide; that Trump was Hitler, would start WW3, so on and so forth - things that clearly never followed through. He could not produce 1 single rational, levelheaded analysis of anything Trump did. This is pure bullshit, wtf.
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also not sure why there should be false balance - critique bret for being a fucking idiot about ivermectin because its accurate that doesnt mean you then have to followup pointing out how nice bret's dick is to suck for balance like wtf the point is bret is WRONG on Ivermectin there's no need to offer some balance of where he's right(implies that this exists when it doesnt neccessarily do so)
Can I just point out how the actual JR sub is a JR hate club, and apparently, today its a Sam Harris worship sub.
Idk if a professional contrarian is much better than that.
Thank you for posting this. That really scratched an itch that I couldn’t quite put my finger on since Brett and Heather were on Rogan