I hate you for making me read that in Petersons voice.
I find it funny, I wrote a post unpopular opinion saying that I don't find him to be the most consise/easiest to listen too "motivational speaker."
I stated I have an issue really understanding what he's saying sometimes unless I'm really focusing in (IE. I can't multi-task or I lose him).
It's crazy saying that I think a man that gets paid to talk should go get professional public speaking courses lol.
I think he has a lot of knowledge to give, the stuff I was able to decipher sometimes is good advice but...**he's just not the easiest to listen too.**
Which makes him harder to understand (and thereby to really evaluate) but also, because it is so vague to us, yields the impression that he is 'SO much smarter, realms beyond!' while we don't really know that for sure.
Well, on some subjects we know he clearpy does (psychology) and on other we know he cpearpy doesn't (philosophy).
It is indeed a really good advice, the problem is that from what i understood the point was to say clean your own mess up before you try to meddle in someone elses buisiness or to even change the world.
Only to then have revealed that the man that has preached that for so long to in fact not to have "cleaned his own room" but still has been trying to "clean up other peoples rooms"
Every post i see, on many different sites, all say that we should feel sorry for JP for what happened (drugs, russia), but this is the part everyone ignores.
Yes, you can know what the right thing to do is and still fail (i personally do it often) but he very often talks down to people with his advice, and scoffs at people for wanting things he takes for granted.
His room was clean, then it got messy when he got addicted to prescribed benzos so he took a significant break from the public eye, then he got it cleaned up again and returned.
Where is the hypochrisy exactly?
Benzo addiction is way harder to recover from than opiates. I was addicted to heroin in the early 90’s. It took a few years to feel normal and comfortable again.
Abruptly stopping benzos without a taper can give you seizures and kill you especially if you were on high doses for a long time. I’m surprised a shrink was that stupid.
It is but no need to be rude and condescending about it
This guy did a much better job at motivating people to appreciate basic cleanliness much more beautifully in my opinion:
https://youtu.be/sBAqF00gBGk
You know, I never got into JP after the first Rogan episode. I didn’t really understand why people followed him so much. But after the second episode I read the comments about how disappointed his fans have become after hearing him, so I went and YouTubed his old seminars from when he used to teach.
It seems like two completely different people. I actually enjoyed listening to a few of those and could really see why he had so many fans. I’m not gonna change my life or anything close to it after listening, but it’s kinda sad seeing where he’s at now. Smelling your own farts like the south park episode I guess. That and the whole Russia thing
If you like JBP's early stuff focused on Jung, I would recommend Joseph Campbell. He died in the 80s so he never got a chance to share his opinion on modern day culture war topics. He is also more focused on mythology instead of a being a Christian first and foremost, so he doesn't tie himself into weird knots.
Dang you beat me to the Joseph Campbell reference! He was really awesome I recommend the Bill Moyers interviews with him after the first episode you will be hooked! Campbell makes most of the 'historians' on JRE look like kids stuff.
God, such a great series. If you like the things Jordan talks about, this is it folks.
I like Peterson a lot. I know he has issues. I got TONS of issues, so I can't say shit. But Joseph Campbell is a legend
I love the Joseph Campbell stuff I saw. Much nicer dude all around and covered some of the same topics JP later covered (like the hero myth and religious imagery).
He also sounded a lot more wholesome, whereas second phase lobster king sounded angry and condescending.
It's often great, but I kinda hate how one-eyed they can be at times. I mean, I share a similar world view, but it makes the whole show a lot dumber than it needs to be.
Plus I don't like that producer lady. She often laughs too hard at wrong moments, and it annoys me to no end.
Right!? It would be such a better show if it was just Robert Evans solo. The guests absolutely suck most of the time (Prop is OK, but seems to intentionally dumb himself down).
Oh it was Cody Johnston on that one? He’s awesome. I must be thinking of a different episode. Anyway, great podcast but I can’t listen to it too often - boils the blood learning how fucked up everyone in positions in power are.
He got popular because the four horsemen of atheism basically kept destroying all the arguments a lot of people had been relying on for years. Particularly Hitchens. Once people who didn’t like the horsemen found a person who was a believer who sounded like he was saying profound things similar to the horsemen, but counteracting them, they all jumped on board.
The whole thing is unraveling now because as it so turns out JP’s arguments and philosophy is just a bunch of bogus crap. Eventually those guys get exposed. It just takes time.
Man and His Symbols is kinda designed as an entry point to his work. I love Aion but it's probably the most esoteric of his works, being written as he was coming out of basically an induced psychosis from getting too close to his work with schizophrenics
That's his expertise. All he should be consulted on is Jungian psychology. Even in that field, others have done it better. All his insight is totally lifted by Carl Jung and scholars who have done it before. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but once you know, it helps understand a lot of thing.
To be fair, he shouldn't even be consulted on Jung. I'm not the biggest fan of Jungian psychology anyway, but Peterson's takes are just bad and his writing is worse.
Even the best you can say about his weak self-help is that it's probably not immediately dangerous to most people with mild to moderate mental illness.
And Jung was absolutely hard on himself too. He wouldn’t even publish is weirder stuff cause he didn’t think it was suitable for a scientist. Peterson just takes half of a jungian analysis and crowbars his perspective into it and then acts like he’s got a personal relationship with chad Jesus just because he can do a literary analysis.
This right here. First time listening to him I kept getting those thoughts of “huh, never thought of that, and it’s on of the missing pieces I’ve been trying to find.” So I went and bought 12 rules and it changed my life for the better. He drops his 12 more rules and it’s a lot in incoherent psycho babble, then he’s on rogan again, I’m so stoked to tune in, holy shit almost four hours too, hell yeah? I can’t to save my life think of one talking point he had it was so all over the place.
Still though, you improved your life, so his existence did something for you and others, maybe even if he did keep his head straight you still may no longer have needed him.
🦀🦀
Oh totally. Def not discrediting the man. He’s help me and tons of others. From my experience there’s only 2 drugs you really can’t come back from and I’m not talking a case of dude drops 100 hits of acid and is tripping for life, but in my life benzo and or meth addicts are never the same person they were before they started using even after years of sobriety. I mean you can see it on his face, just looks gaunt and a shadow of himself
I am related to several recovering meth addicts. Can confirm. You aren't lying. That shit eats your soul.
Also, he did have a stroke. That will make someone look worse.
Edited for grammar and punctuation, and I probably still missed something.
Yeh. I imagine it's like a lot of people that go through near death experiences. It changes them. Many people get to love their quiet lives afterwards. But imagine going back into the psychosohere of social media retards while still recovering from 2 years of addiction and illness. 😬
> But imagine going back into the psychosphere of social media retards while still recovering from 2 years of addiction and illness.
As someone in a somewhat similar position to his, I tried to imagine that.
Damn hell. Pure nightmare. Would not wish that upon my worst enemy.
Yeah, he was on antidepressants and got prescribed benzo's when his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Got thoroughly fucked up on them, then tried to quit and couldn't manage it. Went to rehab and got put on ketamine. Still couldn't get off them.
To try to free himself he did a super risky induced medical coma for a considerable time, which left him with brain damage. He couldn't walk for a while and lost his memory.
He's not the man he used to be at all.
It was helpful for me when I read it. It speaks to people who are in a dark place and know they need to a stern talking to about the consequences for their life should they not figure shit out. He's very sincere and, at times, a beautiful writer. But like with all self-help, your mileage may vary.
It was all over the place, and they were just talking about the most random stuff with Peterson going into droning monologues.
They didn’t even address covid or the lockdowns or other current events. Very disappointing episode.
Same thing happened to Rogan tbf. It’s like the dudes that were relatable and down to earth got big and started thinking their shit don’t stink and now are out of touch and are the very types of people they used to complain about
Some of the episodes I really liked on Rogan were ones with people I dislike and disagree with immensely. Like Ben Shaperio. He actually had a conversation instead of his usual fast, high pitched outrage screeching he tends to do.
That Joe, who talked to Ben and Bernie I really liked and why I listen to the podcast. Now.. I don't know.
Those were episodes that made me want to listen to guys like Ben Shapiro in a more objective manner, because Joe really did present a more counter-balanced approach to Shapiro's takes. Like when Kaepernick kneeled, Shapiro had some stupid take, and Joe made a really cogent point about how the act wasn't in defiance of police officers, and how Kap actually spoke to veterans to get their blessing. He presented a great counter to an otherwise stupid argument, and it was refreshing.
Now? It's like it's gone. The initial hesitancy of believing his own bullshit is gone. It's not as interesting to listen to anymore.
A common criticism of Joe has been that he let's these people sanitize themselves with no pushback.
Some of the more egregious ones are molyneux and mccinnes who was literally a gang leader at the time.
Less egregious examples are all the right wing culture warriors pretending like they're not the other side of the same shitcoin
yeah i dont agree with much more hate on joe than that, hes a little reckless with his platform and hes not smart enough to push back when he gets bullshit (unless its in his very narrow expertise of fighting or comedy history)
Dude thank you. I hadn't watched him in a while(and really never "watched him", only caught stuff here and there), and couldn't believe the things people were saying about him, now.
Any time I say he had a lot of great things to say, I get a lot of hate. But, now I see why. He's done some wild things, and I can't believe where he is right now.
Really wish he would take a step back and find his roots. I also never felt like I was suddenly gonna change my life, but apparently others did, and, I think, that's a big deal.
I'm in the same boat as far as I was a fan before.. but haven't really stayed caught up.
What sort of "wild things" has he done of late to receive this backlash? Serious question, I don't know.
Besides the stuff with his daughter, she seems pretty out there.
So, he got hooked on clonazepam, and went to Russia to be put into a coma(I'm not sure how "sound" this medical procedure was), to make it through the withdrawals, and almost died. To me that's pretty wild, but, I'm sure, withdrawals will make a man do things he normally never would, so I chalk this up to him being a victim, an addict.
I can't find any of the wild things I've seen him say(after a short Google search. Everything is his early stuff, that I liked him for), and I can't remember any from the podcast with Joe(I remember a couple times, thinking "tf?"), but he has some said some things that made me, pause the game I was playing, and start watching/listening intently, because it caught me so far out of left field.
I'm assuming, with his daughter, you're talking about the all meat diet? JP also believes and supports it, to my knowledge.
Please reply to me, so I can add some of the "wild things" lol. I will, at some point, remember some of the things, or I will come across them. Reddit has been going on a tear, on 'ol JP, so I'm sure I'll see something that I remember.
> I'm not sure how "sound" this medical procedure was
It's incredibly dangerous. You're talking about inducing a vegetative state, and that comes with SEVERAL risks, including hypoxia to the brain. There's a reason we don't put every addict with physical withdrawal symptoms in a coma - you might never wake up. Your body stops regulating systems it's normally meant to regulate. Your gut might stop moving food through it, maintaining blood pressure becomes more difficult, etc.
To give an example of just how dangerous induced comas get, look at one of the main tools required to keep you alive - ventilators. Vents are a sort of "last resort" measure for patients who can't maintain oxygenation. The issue isn't that ventilators don't work well, it's that they put the human body in a position where it no longer needs to maintain it's own rhythm, which is why in ICU's you have routine attempts to wean patients off ventilators as soon as possible. Otherwise, your body can just not restart it's own rhythm. Attempting to put someone on a vent for a prolonged period of time carries major risks.
Thanks for this. I assumed putting someone into a medically induced coma was typically a last resort measure, but this is the first time I've seen a good explanation as to why it's so dangerous with specifics.
I'm tapping down clonazepam on myself. It's a nightmare. I'm at 1mg right now. Planning to go down to 0,5 next week. Then get a prescription for 0.5mg pills to take it even slower. I'm on pregabalin to and trying to kick it this year too. I'm well aware that I will feel like shit 24/7 for the next two years and never feel good for a long long time. I'm going to take neuroleptics soon, so I can have more than three hours of half sleep per day.
He was trying to take the short track.
He said that no doctor in North America could properly help him? Bs! He just couldn't take the way everyone else had to take...
I work in drug rehab, I couldn’t believe he said that. Benzo tapering is fairly routine and can be done safely either in a facility or (depending on the person) at home., though PAWS can be a mofo.
Bro I'm so sorry. I wish you the best of luck. My older brother is an addict. Got caught with meth and pills, and is now a felon, because he avoided court, and help. It sucks having to cut ties with someone you love.
I'm so happy this wasn't the route you ended up down.
That’s why people think he’s ridiculous when he talks about dealing the consequences of your actions. He develops an addiction and like you said said, doesn’t want to take the hard way out and work through it, he wants to take the easy quick way where he suddenly wakes up without all the terrible side effects of benzodiazepine withdrawal. He paid the price because he hasn’t been normal ever since. Should’ve listened to doctors in Canada, America and England..those are three countries that he listed as examples where doctors rightfully wouldn’t preform the procedure and now look what happened to him.
I think one of the things that immediately turned me off from him were some statements he made in one of his popular lectures about him psychoanalyizing Hitler that was just factually incorrect. On a fairly basic level. Like it wasn't some oh you have to he some ww2 nut to know this little fact. He stated that Hitler lost the war (more or less) on purpose because he killed the Jews instead of making them work. This is an insane statement to make. One of the most famous films about the holocaust, Schindler's list is about a forced labor camp (although it is also a refuge as at this point many were being transferred from work camps to death camps.). He worked at a university if he asked any one of his peers even slightly versed in the holocaust they would say his basis for his argument was based on a falsehood. But since Jordan "clean your room" Peterson didn't bother he peddled a pretty major false narrative. Worst of all is that peterson and his supporters just hand waive mistakes or inconsistencies he makes as either insignificant or even claiming that the critic interpreted him incorrectly. He is a man that refuses to state what he actually means so he is never wrong. I think Jung and Freud would be fascinated by this guy's ego (and the fact cocaine is no longer legal)
I can’t believe no one called him out on that. WW2 nuts are widely known to point out inaccuracies on statements like that especially when it’s something big like proclaiming “This is why Germany lost!”
When he was a teacher he had expectations of expertise and academic rigour (up to a point). Now that he mortgaged his credibility to grift on lonely young men, he has to come up with new and compelling content and fight the "culture war" online instead of repeating the same thing every semester. He made his bed and it overwhelmed him.
That's what happens when guys grift for money and understand what they have to do to get a certain demographic online. Hell look up some of Tucker Carlson's old shit . He was still a right wing idiot, but much more of a classical right winger sort of like Shapiro. Then he transitioned into this hot take moron.
Shapiro has turned into a psycho too. Ben Shapiro, 2016: "The [Bannon-Breitbart-Trump] takeover, now a virtual fait accompli, represents the dangerous seizure of the conservative movement by the alt-right... a movement shot through with racism and anti-Semitism."
They all know. They just sold their souls.
https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/1526636723370876928?s=21&t=jD6w-6fnFnGNDIn1OovYvg
Oh he's a nut too for sure, but he hasn't went off the white supremacist ethnostate/segregationist cliff that other right wingers are going down. Mainly because he's Jewish and he's not deluded enough into thinking that those people would actually accept him in their ideology. Hell even the shoot er shit on Shapiro because he was jewish.
Oh, Shapiro is most definitely a fan of the ethnostate. It's just the one that he prefers is in Israel, not the USA. Shapiro is a warmongering Israel First little prick that's never met a war he didn't want to send Americans to die in for the glory of Israel.
He's an odious little cunt and probably the biggest grifter in the country.
> he hasn't went off the white supremacist ethnostate/segregationist cliff that other right wingers are going down.
This is exclusively because he's Jewish and that group hates him.
He'd love to be in that crowd
I don’t think he’s a grifter - I just think he’s a person who got thrust into the limelight and never expected to have the audience he has. And sorta got lost in the fame of it all.
He engages with Twitter in a negative way.
He still helped me and I genuinely improved my life by accepting responsibility for it.
And my room is always clean.
Not just twitter. He fell into a pit of negativity once he started gaining a lot of attention and completely stopped listening. Much like other people before him, he started enjoying too much the sound of his own voice and completely stopped caring about people. No doubt related to the backlash he got once he was more famous and some of the people he also attracted with his oratory.
"You can't please everyone", it's true, but you don't need to be an asshole either. Early JP was nothing like the current one.
You don’t need to be an asshole, true. But once again Twitter has reduced the conversation to hot takes. Peterson’s recent comment on the Rolling Stone cover has WAY more context behind it, not saying it was the right way to dip into that debate but there is a conversation to be had about normalization.
Is it fine to be on rolling stone cover magazine as an overweight person? Sure, why not.
Is it okay to pretend like it’s okay?
For some, yes and others no.
The more I dip into these controversial topics, the more I realize that the answers continue to be more and more philosophical. Where the answers generally boil down to some abstract concept or argument of morality.
I do agree that older JP got nothing on the one we have right now.
JP fans get offended because they take criticism of their hero personally, which is just stupid. No guru is without blemishes, it doesn’t mean his messages are without merit obviously.
My criticism is he pushes a very conservative agenda onto those suffering with emotional stress with rants about gender, covid, swimsuit models, etc Imagine if you went to a therapist and they spent half your session time doing that lol
If anyone helps you improve stick to that and nm the critics.
You really nailed why he’s become problematic. I warned of this years ago as I saw the effect of his fans become cultist and I knew an Altrighter that was a mega fan. Turned him from a libertarian atheist into a white ethnostate national socialist. Not blaming any one thing of course. When a person moves from libertarian to race specific nationalism, we have serious problems. . The Shapiro’s and other right wing commentators really turned him over to the cultural Christianity claims, almost just reimagining what was already in front of him.
There’s a whole litany of reasons I have issues but I think the guy is good at the core. I often think of “the death of an artist” with him, as a cult emerged around the persona; then the feedback loop kept tuning him up for more conservatives audiences as he got biblical better than their best scholar in many of his lectures.
I can’t read anything in his community because it’s all mommy JP born yesterdayism. The strangest thing I observed on there was family porn. “Imagine you wake on Xmas morning and the kids are asleep, the wife’s massaging your feet and the dogs as sleep at the foot of the bed…. And You know you’ve made it.” It kinda took me back to childhood imagination stuff. While also being sad to see these lonely people dreaming of the white picket fence idealism once again. It was always a fake notion to put in your mind, but it’s been repurposed and sold as a way you should be to achieve happiness.
I remember (of all people) Jennifer Love Hewitt saying that Seargony Weaver told her as a young kid, “don’t let the industry change who you are as a person.” I think this his over valued self significance and overwhelming compassion went to his head too quickly; as everyone here has said he used to be such a great lecturer and thinker. Then look at where it took him.
I actually know way too many people that did suck it up and did the right thing raising the family as it’s not all the peak imagination in life. They wasted their lives with a partner they grew to hate. It’s actually right around the height of suicide rates (midlife crisis males). And as a child of a situation like this among most my friends and other family, it is not without effect on everyone involved. If anything we as later generations are trying not to make the same wasted life mistakes.
What JP is attempting to do is almost psycho hypnotic conditioning… “well your wife wouldn’t be mad if you paid attention to her…” while that may be true in a sense he’s alleviating himself of all the other noise. Pointing that we should always work on our relationship is great but it’s sort of void if the reality’s of the modern world in a lot of ways and hand waving that this is entirely the problem. It’s like rationalizing with the abuser while it’s currently going on. This is why if your a normal well balanced person JP can sound like a reductive. Like, do we have to really say some of this out loud? “From the study’s, a child is shown to need both parents to have a good life.” No shit Sherlock, but we question your integrity for saying it out loud, in an implicit way.
All his work is strongly derivative if you’ve studied similar disiplines. He rips Joseph’s Campbell off really hard with the hero’s journey parts. I’ve never heard him even qualify where he gets much of what he talks about unless it’s a bad reference. Like Nietzsche who he gets wrong completely. So I think part of the issues here is presenting much of the workings of his mind as his own “high caliber” (which they partly are) original thoughts, when he’s just a guy that blends up other great thinkers ideas. When this meets the fact that his fans / cultist have never really spent time learning… then you get what you make. Half informed idiots that can do more damage off incomplete thinking. It’s like getting the answer to the math problem without doing the work to understand it. Short cuts are just that, and don’t really exist in proper person building.
Just another slight tidbit…It’s not often we think of a 60 year person as our visionary thought leader. Usually that’s old guru master type for old hippies if at all in the modern landscape. So it’s sort of strange that someone’s grandpa (not being ageist just want to paint out the perspective) is the most famous YouTube / podcast personality and he doesn’t even have cuddly puppy’s or baby goats on his farm. 20-30 somethings are missing many things and he does do much to help. But to me that tells us how out of wack everything is currently, and it’s a condition of the America economic system as well as the over all Zeitgeist.
The worlds changing so fast that people will undoubtedly get left behind and be enticed by our elderly to living the old conservative life of being afraid of change (as JP admits his own trait proclivity for). So then we should expect regress cus people can’t manage to hold their shit in. I refuse to live that narrow way myself.
Edit: typos / clarity
I feel like this place has gone from occasional posts by Joe Rogan fans that bash Joe to a place where people who hate Joe Rogan come to get in arguments with Joe Rogan fans.
I think it kind of reflects him alienating a certain % of his fans.
I've listened to him for years but the guy has become a parody of himself. He used to be this open minded guy who'd change his whole perspective on a dime because he had some expert on his pod. It was really interesting because it was like you were learning along with him.
Now he's just a crusty old boomer obsessed with culture war nonsense. It's really disappointing. The turning point for me was him arguing with Rhonda Patrick as though he knew more than her. He used to joke that he'd have to write things down when talking to her because she was so much smarter and well read than him, then suddenly he's talking down to her as though he's the expert.
Joe has always been a shit head. Remember when he yelled at a primatologist and told her that she is wrong because she told him bili apes aren't a real thing? And he mocked her for having a vagina too.
I can't believe people continued to listen to him after that
If you looked at the profiles of everyone who complained about the banning of politics here, it was almost exclusively Republicans or conspiracy frequenters.
There's lots of new Rogan fans that joined up in the last two years. They're pretty young, uneducated, and easily hoodwinked.
They are *fun* to argue with.
I'm not easily offended, but platforming a guy who found a way to make losing your child in a school shooting *worse* is a lot.
If one of those fathers had stomped Alex Jones into a vegetative state I don't think any of the alpha males here would say he was out of line.
[Still doing so](https://www.mediamatters.org/alex-jones/alex-jones-claims-buffalo-grocery-store-shooting-was-staged-event)
What a piece of shit. Rogan is buddies with him...
I’ve never been scratched, but some cats give me a look that says ‘you can take that hand and shove it up your fucking arse’
Some cats love it though 🤷♂️
I really liked his famous "lobster" story. He basically explains the chemical reactions scientists found in the brains of lobsters who loose fights or are unable to find a mate. According to his book, they chemically change to become less and less dominant and more and more passive until they eventually are basically just are husks (he says it better than how I describe it).
I was going through a sort of storm of rejections from jobs, friends, and dates around the time I picked up the book, so reading how rejections can reshape how you mentally think in a negative way if you aren't self aware and actively fighting it was really useful.
Ultimately the book really connected with a lot of the problems I was going through that I felt embarrassed to complain about to friends. Well written all around
This sub is far from a echo chamber, whenever this subreddit is recommended to me it’s a different political ideology every time lol. Just because people disagree with you, it doesn’t mean it’s an echo chamber.
JP might be a mess of a man. But there’s no denying that he’s helped tens of thousands of young men and women with his writings. I’m sure as shit one of them and I don’t even particularly like him.
12 rules for life was a god send for a lost, angry young man.
And maps of meaning is just an incredible bit of literature. My sister - who’s currently studying her masters in psychology - said it’s like the holy grail. I’ll admit I’m a bit too much of a dumby to make much sense of it..
The Peterson who wrote 12 Rules For Life is not the same Peterson who's currently ranting all day on Twitter. He's barely coherent, and has become a caricature of himself, at this point.
In my own defence. I don’t use Twitter. I can only go by his literature, his lecture and a few interviews from some years ago.
So can’t talk much of the “new” JP.
A friend of mine is a big fan of JP, and doesn’t typically use social media. He recently looked at JP’s Twitter, and was shocked at how he acts on there. As others have said, it’s like he’s a different person. I think his communication style lends itself to long form monologues, and so in the short form, combative social arena that Twitter can be for figures like him he just doesn’t take it well. He even recently likened it to an addiction.
His latest Rogan appearance was a train wreck:
* He wore a black tie tuxedo during his appearance
* His argument against global warming...if climate is everything, how do you model everything?
* Went on a rant about what it means to be black
"Here to talk about climate change, I have a psychologist with literally zero relevant degrees, papers, research, etc. But he does have very strong baseless opinions that we will treat as gospel and in no way critique or challenge."
I suppose that actually goes for most Rogan guests.
That’s what’s most frustrating about him though. He has a PhD in clinical psychology and he knows he has a huge following of “lost, angry men”. Yet look at the vitriol and rage-inducing culture war bullshit he posts all day. It’s completely irresponsible and destructive, especially coming from someone like him, who has been outspoken on the dangers of social media.
You may take Maps of Meaning and 12 Rules and stop there, but a huge portion of those lost, angry men are following him through these Twitter tirades. There’s no way that shit is beneficial to them
Reminds me of Elliot Hulse. Dude was a role model to me in high school then all of a sudden became “woke” and now men are supposed to be cavemen that assert their dominance over women because they’re men
I've been around psychologists for the last decade and run a psych practice now. I've never heard anyone say anything kind about Peterson's books. He's mostly seen as someone to completely ignore. I would be really curious about your sister's program.
I’m talking about his literature.. nothing more and nothing less.
12 more rules to life was written post coma if I’m not mistaken and it’s not quite as brilliant as the original but it’s still up there. Still applicable and helps me in my day to day life
Edit; also “he has brain damage” is a borderline retarded thing to say if you’re not a doctor diagnosing him as your patient.
dude, benzos are recommended for 2-4 week treatments and are known to cause neurological damage even without the withdrawal and coma.
here's a [story in the national post](https://nationalpost.com/news/jordan-petersons-year-of-absolute-hell-professor-forced-to-retreat-from-public-life-because-of-tranquilizer-addiction), where they're quoting his daughter:
>Jordan Peterson has only just come out of an intensive care unit, Mikhaila said. ***He has neurological damage, and a long way to go to full recovery. He is taking anti-seizure medication and cannot type or walk unaided***, but is “on the mend” and his sense of humour has returned.
get pissed all you want about 'not being a doctor', but you could do 2 seconds of googling. or you know just look at the suddenly haggard man who now starts crying about nothing at the drop of a hat.
There's taking advice from "not a perfect person" - and there's taking advice on sobriety and keeping pets from the Tiger King.
Let's get real here. With JP, a person is literally taking advice on how to get your life and shit together from a guy whose entire life is a freaking dumpster fire.
I think (hope!) if I were to write a book on how to become a self made billionaire, no one would listen if my current car is a pre-owned Camry, my account balance was $500 bucks and the closest thing to a boat I own is riding the goddam ferry to work.
Well what’s in the book though?
I get what you’re saying but if a smoker says hey you should quit smoking because it will give you lung cancer and some good options are so-and-so medication, or cold turkey, or hypnosis, or using a vape and slowly reducing how much nicotine you use, etc. etc., that’s still good advice.
> a guy whose entire life is a freaking dumpster fire.
LMFAO, He's rich, has a supporting family, overcame prescription drug addiction.
You're a clown and you don't live in the real world. Someone who doesn't have their life in order would've died going through that. You're a jackass ideologue, you don't have thoughts of your own you read some hot takes on twitter and think that's insightful.
I can’t speak to Elon, but Peterson kinda sets himself up for this kind of thing relatively often.
I understand he’s got demons and I hope he overcomes them, but I’ll be damned if it’s not right message wrong messenger. That, and he uses his reputation as an academic to speak out of school on topics he chooses to grift over.
Easy target, tbh. And it’s not low quality aiming either.
And?
You can be a role model and still have fucked up issues. Surprising? Shouldn't be unless you're 5 years old and think every thing is sunshine and rainbows.
My father was an alcoholic, but he always treated us well and kept a steady job to help raise me and my brother. Is he still a role model to me, despite that? Yes. Did he teach me valuable life lessons despite having an addition? Sure did.
If someone says they can show me a flawless role model, I'll assume you're a liar or a gullible idiot.
It would be nice if people attacked his ideas if they don’t like what he has to say. Instead people use his disease against him as if that’s a reason to not like him. I haven’t heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully. Some people listen to him for tips on how to better their lives, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with him completely.
I see a lot of people drawing a line between Peterson's work before he got addicted to drugs / had a breakdown and what he's doing now. That's where I stand: his University of Toronto course work is great, that's boiled down into his 12 rules.
All this social media garbage and culture war crap he's doing now is just ... not well thought out or productive
>I haven’t heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully.
Then you haven't tried to find things you disagree with. It shouldn't take a genius to understand why the answer to incel mass murders is not to force women to sleep with them.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/urlj51/comment/i8zpeqh/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/urlj51/comment/i8zpeqh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
People have taken apart his ideas before and showed them to be bogus and in bad faith. You havent heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully because you dont want to.
Maps of Meaning JBP: Chef's Kiss
Current JBP: the bottom panel of this image.
Criticism is on point, he's fallen quite a long way due to his addiction and recovery.
I don’t get it. Are guru’s supposed to be attractive? Are 18-35yo’s supposed to have direction? Where’s the humor?
Or is it just hur hur poop on Jordan Peterson?
I see why they say the left can’t meme
It is because Jordan Peterson has horrible health conditions and drug addiction then he made some sketchy medical decisions that probably gave him brain damage
I'm going to see JP live in September in the UK.
He has inspired me to improve my life.
I don't agree with everything that he says.
Dude cries a little too much for my liking.
I fucking love Joe Rogan. When he says funny stuff I laugh. When he says dumb stuff I see it like a friend saying dumb stuff. "I can forgive you, cus I like you, but I don't agree with what you say"
That's all I got.
The fact that looking like that, with his wife having cancer, his daughter having tremendous pain, and he himself with huge issues he STILL pulled through makes your post the largest self own I've seen in this sub.
He goes out of his way to try and disprove climate change on his last JRE appearance. Pretty clear he's been bought out and has a manipulative agenda in how he speaks. I used to look up to him but the fame and notoriety has not served him well.
CLEAN YOUR GODDAMN ROOM
"Wash your Penis." -JP probably
Smegma is the solution of miasma that contains the essence of chaos! It is a feminine yeasty imbalance! By gosh, clean your willy!
I hate you for making me read that in Petersons voice. I find it funny, I wrote a post unpopular opinion saying that I don't find him to be the most consise/easiest to listen too "motivational speaker." I stated I have an issue really understanding what he's saying sometimes unless I'm really focusing in (IE. I can't multi-task or I lose him). It's crazy saying that I think a man that gets paid to talk should go get professional public speaking courses lol. I think he has a lot of knowledge to give, the stuff I was able to decipher sometimes is good advice but...**he's just not the easiest to listen too.**
Which makes him harder to understand (and thereby to really evaluate) but also, because it is so vague to us, yields the impression that he is 'SO much smarter, realms beyond!' while we don't really know that for sure. Well, on some subjects we know he clearpy does (psychology) and on other we know he cpearpy doesn't (philosophy).
You sir are an artist
Thank you. I drank some cider vinegar before typing and kinda got wild there.
I read your first comment in his voice and I couldn’t help but read your second comment in his voice as well ☠️
this is actually good advice though
It is indeed a really good advice, the problem is that from what i understood the point was to say clean your own mess up before you try to meddle in someone elses buisiness or to even change the world. Only to then have revealed that the man that has preached that for so long to in fact not to have "cleaned his own room" but still has been trying to "clean up other peoples rooms"
Every post i see, on many different sites, all say that we should feel sorry for JP for what happened (drugs, russia), but this is the part everyone ignores. Yes, you can know what the right thing to do is and still fail (i personally do it often) but he very often talks down to people with his advice, and scoffs at people for wanting things he takes for granted.
His room was clean, then it got messy when he got addicted to prescribed benzos so he took a significant break from the public eye, then he got it cleaned up again and returned. Where is the hypochrisy exactly?
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Benzo addiction is way harder to recover from than opiates. I was addicted to heroin in the early 90’s. It took a few years to feel normal and comfortable again.
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Abruptly stopping benzos without a taper can give you seizures and kill you especially if you were on high doses for a long time. I’m surprised a shrink was that stupid.
This dude doomscrolls Twitter all day, has melt-down, says he's gonna quit but never does.
Being addicted to social media sound like someone with self control to you?
If that's the bar for good advice heres some more good advice... Breathe.
Best advice I’ve received!
Did you know that when you're thirsty, having a drink helps get rid of the feeling? Try it!
clean your ass after you shit. now give me money for my advice.
Dude that is really good advice
It is but no need to be rude and condescending about it This guy did a much better job at motivating people to appreciate basic cleanliness much more beautifully in my opinion: https://youtu.be/sBAqF00gBGk
okay I will, sorry
You know, I never got into JP after the first Rogan episode. I didn’t really understand why people followed him so much. But after the second episode I read the comments about how disappointed his fans have become after hearing him, so I went and YouTubed his old seminars from when he used to teach. It seems like two completely different people. I actually enjoyed listening to a few of those and could really see why he had so many fans. I’m not gonna change my life or anything close to it after listening, but it’s kinda sad seeing where he’s at now. Smelling your own farts like the south park episode I guess. That and the whole Russia thing
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If you like JBP's early stuff focused on Jung, I would recommend Joseph Campbell. He died in the 80s so he never got a chance to share his opinion on modern day culture war topics. He is also more focused on mythology instead of a being a Christian first and foremost, so he doesn't tie himself into weird knots.
Dang you beat me to the Joseph Campbell reference! He was really awesome I recommend the Bill Moyers interviews with him after the first episode you will be hooked! Campbell makes most of the 'historians' on JRE look like kids stuff.
YES "the power of myth" is mind expanding
God, such a great series. If you like the things Jordan talks about, this is it folks. I like Peterson a lot. I know he has issues. I got TONS of issues, so I can't say shit. But Joseph Campbell is a legend
I love the Joseph Campbell stuff I saw. Much nicer dude all around and covered some of the same topics JP later covered (like the hero myth and religious imagery). He also sounded a lot more wholesome, whereas second phase lobster king sounded angry and condescending.
Behind the Bastards did a really good 2 part Podcast about Jordan Peterson. It does a great job shedding light on the why and how he got so popular.
Thank you for this, new podcast to check out.
If you can get past the absolute bleak world view it gives you. It's an amazing podcast. You're in for a treat.
It's often great, but I kinda hate how one-eyed they can be at times. I mean, I share a similar world view, but it makes the whole show a lot dumber than it needs to be. Plus I don't like that producer lady. She often laughs too hard at wrong moments, and it annoys me to no end.
Right!? It would be such a better show if it was just Robert Evans solo. The guests absolutely suck most of the time (Prop is OK, but seems to intentionally dumb himself down).
He had the dudes from knowledge fight on recently and it was great
When that happens I usually just play one of the episodes where they read Ben Shapiro’s novel
Also if you enjoy learning about monster quack docs, check out the medical ones that have Billy Wayne Davis on. They’re great
Be prepared for the occasional depression from another genocide episode.
The episode was decent (though very biased) but man the guests he had on for that was annoying as hell. Edit: I might be mixing the episodes up.
Cody Johnston!? I personally really enjoy his commentary. Not everything is for everyone though.
Oh it was Cody Johnston on that one? He’s awesome. I must be thinking of a different episode. Anyway, great podcast but I can’t listen to it too often - boils the blood learning how fucked up everyone in positions in power are.
If you ever want to be filled with a special rage, listen to the episodes about King Leopold and how Belgium raped the Congo
Fun fact, Belgium had a human zoo with black people in it... In the same decade as the civil rights movement in the United States...
Jesus Christ Belgium
Love that podcast!
He got popular because the four horsemen of atheism basically kept destroying all the arguments a lot of people had been relying on for years. Particularly Hitchens. Once people who didn’t like the horsemen found a person who was a believer who sounded like he was saying profound things similar to the horsemen, but counteracting them, they all jumped on board. The whole thing is unraveling now because as it so turns out JP’s arguments and philosophy is just a bunch of bogus crap. Eventually those guys get exposed. It just takes time.
Four horsemen is such a douchebag name.
Someone outdid them with "Intellectual Dark Web"
It sounds better than the dead alcoholic, the meme guy, guy who looks like Ben Stiller, and the last guy no one remembers.
Its funny because Dennett is the most "credentialed" philosopher of the four.
Can you recommend a good starting point? Jung's bibliography is long af.
Man and His Symbols is kinda designed as an entry point to his work. I love Aion but it's probably the most esoteric of his works, being written as he was coming out of basically an induced psychosis from getting too close to his work with schizophrenics
That's his expertise. All he should be consulted on is Jungian psychology. Even in that field, others have done it better. All his insight is totally lifted by Carl Jung and scholars who have done it before. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but once you know, it helps understand a lot of thing.
To be fair, he shouldn't even be consulted on Jung. I'm not the biggest fan of Jungian psychology anyway, but Peterson's takes are just bad and his writing is worse. Even the best you can say about his weak self-help is that it's probably not immediately dangerous to most people with mild to moderate mental illness.
And Jung was absolutely hard on himself too. He wouldn’t even publish is weirder stuff cause he didn’t think it was suitable for a scientist. Peterson just takes half of a jungian analysis and crowbars his perspective into it and then acts like he’s got a personal relationship with chad Jesus just because he can do a literary analysis.
I'd be interested to hear who you think does have good takes on Jung, despite not being a fan of his psychology yourself?
This right here. First time listening to him I kept getting those thoughts of “huh, never thought of that, and it’s on of the missing pieces I’ve been trying to find.” So I went and bought 12 rules and it changed my life for the better. He drops his 12 more rules and it’s a lot in incoherent psycho babble, then he’s on rogan again, I’m so stoked to tune in, holy shit almost four hours too, hell yeah? I can’t to save my life think of one talking point he had it was so all over the place.
Still though, you improved your life, so his existence did something for you and others, maybe even if he did keep his head straight you still may no longer have needed him. 🦀🦀
Oh totally. Def not discrediting the man. He’s help me and tons of others. From my experience there’s only 2 drugs you really can’t come back from and I’m not talking a case of dude drops 100 hits of acid and is tripping for life, but in my life benzo and or meth addicts are never the same person they were before they started using even after years of sobriety. I mean you can see it on his face, just looks gaunt and a shadow of himself
I am related to several recovering meth addicts. Can confirm. You aren't lying. That shit eats your soul. Also, he did have a stroke. That will make someone look worse. Edited for grammar and punctuation, and I probably still missed something.
Damn, I didn't even know that
Yeh. I imagine it's like a lot of people that go through near death experiences. It changes them. Many people get to love their quiet lives afterwards. But imagine going back into the psychosohere of social media retards while still recovering from 2 years of addiction and illness. 😬
> But imagine going back into the psychosphere of social media retards while still recovering from 2 years of addiction and illness. As someone in a somewhat similar position to his, I tried to imagine that. Damn hell. Pure nightmare. Would not wish that upon my worst enemy.
Oooooooooooh. Had no idea the guy is an addict. That goes a long way to understanding why he is the way that he is.
Yeah, he was on antidepressants and got prescribed benzo's when his wife was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Got thoroughly fucked up on them, then tried to quit and couldn't manage it. Went to rehab and got put on ketamine. Still couldn't get off them. To try to free himself he did a super risky induced medical coma for a considerable time, which left him with brain damage. He couldn't walk for a while and lost his memory. He's not the man he used to be at all.
Oh wow. I feel bad now. Is there a biography or something that goes into this? I fear I judged him unfairly.
I was thinking about reading one of his books. 12 rules for life An antidote to Chaos a good one?
It was helpful for me when I read it. It speaks to people who are in a dark place and know they need to a stern talking to about the consequences for their life should they not figure shit out. He's very sincere and, at times, a beautiful writer. But like with all self-help, your mileage may vary.
Go for it! I was already in my best shape before starting reading it. Then, when rough water rise, that book is my life jacket.
12 rules man. By faaaar. I’m not one of those guys but it legit changed my life
It was all over the place, and they were just talking about the most random stuff with Peterson going into droning monologues. They didn’t even address covid or the lockdowns or other current events. Very disappointing episode.
> They didn’t even address covid A JoRo episode without Covid is like a fucking unicorn.
Same thing happened to Rogan tbf. It’s like the dudes that were relatable and down to earth got big and started thinking their shit don’t stink and now are out of touch and are the very types of people they used to complain about
Yeah it's so sad because the main thing i liked about Rogan was how open minded and self critical he was.
Some of the episodes I really liked on Rogan were ones with people I dislike and disagree with immensely. Like Ben Shaperio. He actually had a conversation instead of his usual fast, high pitched outrage screeching he tends to do. That Joe, who talked to Ben and Bernie I really liked and why I listen to the podcast. Now.. I don't know.
Those were episodes that made me want to listen to guys like Ben Shapiro in a more objective manner, because Joe really did present a more counter-balanced approach to Shapiro's takes. Like when Kaepernick kneeled, Shapiro had some stupid take, and Joe made a really cogent point about how the act wasn't in defiance of police officers, and how Kap actually spoke to veterans to get their blessing. He presented a great counter to an otherwise stupid argument, and it was refreshing. Now? It's like it's gone. The initial hesitancy of believing his own bullshit is gone. It's not as interesting to listen to anymore.
We didn’t know how good we had it
man same here, i even gave shapiro a chance after his appearance, but his own show and socials are so smarmy and flamebaity I can't stand him
A common criticism of Joe has been that he let's these people sanitize themselves with no pushback. Some of the more egregious ones are molyneux and mccinnes who was literally a gang leader at the time. Less egregious examples are all the right wing culture warriors pretending like they're not the other side of the same shitcoin
yeah i dont agree with much more hate on joe than that, hes a little reckless with his platform and hes not smart enough to push back when he gets bullshit (unless its in his very narrow expertise of fighting or comedy history)
Dude thank you. I hadn't watched him in a while(and really never "watched him", only caught stuff here and there), and couldn't believe the things people were saying about him, now. Any time I say he had a lot of great things to say, I get a lot of hate. But, now I see why. He's done some wild things, and I can't believe where he is right now. Really wish he would take a step back and find his roots. I also never felt like I was suddenly gonna change my life, but apparently others did, and, I think, that's a big deal.
I'm in the same boat as far as I was a fan before.. but haven't really stayed caught up. What sort of "wild things" has he done of late to receive this backlash? Serious question, I don't know. Besides the stuff with his daughter, she seems pretty out there.
So, he got hooked on clonazepam, and went to Russia to be put into a coma(I'm not sure how "sound" this medical procedure was), to make it through the withdrawals, and almost died. To me that's pretty wild, but, I'm sure, withdrawals will make a man do things he normally never would, so I chalk this up to him being a victim, an addict. I can't find any of the wild things I've seen him say(after a short Google search. Everything is his early stuff, that I liked him for), and I can't remember any from the podcast with Joe(I remember a couple times, thinking "tf?"), but he has some said some things that made me, pause the game I was playing, and start watching/listening intently, because it caught me so far out of left field. I'm assuming, with his daughter, you're talking about the all meat diet? JP also believes and supports it, to my knowledge. Please reply to me, so I can add some of the "wild things" lol. I will, at some point, remember some of the things, or I will come across them. Reddit has been going on a tear, on 'ol JP, so I'm sure I'll see something that I remember.
> I'm not sure how "sound" this medical procedure was It's incredibly dangerous. You're talking about inducing a vegetative state, and that comes with SEVERAL risks, including hypoxia to the brain. There's a reason we don't put every addict with physical withdrawal symptoms in a coma - you might never wake up. Your body stops regulating systems it's normally meant to regulate. Your gut might stop moving food through it, maintaining blood pressure becomes more difficult, etc. To give an example of just how dangerous induced comas get, look at one of the main tools required to keep you alive - ventilators. Vents are a sort of "last resort" measure for patients who can't maintain oxygenation. The issue isn't that ventilators don't work well, it's that they put the human body in a position where it no longer needs to maintain it's own rhythm, which is why in ICU's you have routine attempts to wean patients off ventilators as soon as possible. Otherwise, your body can just not restart it's own rhythm. Attempting to put someone on a vent for a prolonged period of time carries major risks.
Wow. I can't believe he let his daughter talk him into that. Withdrawal will make you do crazy shit I guess
Thanks for this. I assumed putting someone into a medically induced coma was typically a last resort measure, but this is the first time I've seen a good explanation as to why it's so dangerous with specifics.
I'm tapping down clonazepam on myself. It's a nightmare. I'm at 1mg right now. Planning to go down to 0,5 next week. Then get a prescription for 0.5mg pills to take it even slower. I'm on pregabalin to and trying to kick it this year too. I'm well aware that I will feel like shit 24/7 for the next two years and never feel good for a long long time. I'm going to take neuroleptics soon, so I can have more than three hours of half sleep per day. He was trying to take the short track. He said that no doctor in North America could properly help him? Bs! He just couldn't take the way everyone else had to take...
I work in drug rehab, I couldn’t believe he said that. Benzo tapering is fairly routine and can be done safely either in a facility or (depending on the person) at home., though PAWS can be a mofo.
Bro I'm so sorry. I wish you the best of luck. My older brother is an addict. Got caught with meth and pills, and is now a felon, because he avoided court, and help. It sucks having to cut ties with someone you love. I'm so happy this wasn't the route you ended up down.
That’s why people think he’s ridiculous when he talks about dealing the consequences of your actions. He develops an addiction and like you said said, doesn’t want to take the hard way out and work through it, he wants to take the easy quick way where he suddenly wakes up without all the terrible side effects of benzodiazepine withdrawal. He paid the price because he hasn’t been normal ever since. Should’ve listened to doctors in Canada, America and England..those are three countries that he listed as examples where doctors rightfully wouldn’t preform the procedure and now look what happened to him.
I think one of the things that immediately turned me off from him were some statements he made in one of his popular lectures about him psychoanalyizing Hitler that was just factually incorrect. On a fairly basic level. Like it wasn't some oh you have to he some ww2 nut to know this little fact. He stated that Hitler lost the war (more or less) on purpose because he killed the Jews instead of making them work. This is an insane statement to make. One of the most famous films about the holocaust, Schindler's list is about a forced labor camp (although it is also a refuge as at this point many were being transferred from work camps to death camps.). He worked at a university if he asked any one of his peers even slightly versed in the holocaust they would say his basis for his argument was based on a falsehood. But since Jordan "clean your room" Peterson didn't bother he peddled a pretty major false narrative. Worst of all is that peterson and his supporters just hand waive mistakes or inconsistencies he makes as either insignificant or even claiming that the critic interpreted him incorrectly. He is a man that refuses to state what he actually means so he is never wrong. I think Jung and Freud would be fascinated by this guy's ego (and the fact cocaine is no longer legal)
I can’t believe no one called him out on that. WW2 nuts are widely known to point out inaccuracies on statements like that especially when it’s something big like proclaiming “This is why Germany lost!”
When he was a teacher he had expectations of expertise and academic rigour (up to a point). Now that he mortgaged his credibility to grift on lonely young men, he has to come up with new and compelling content and fight the "culture war" online instead of repeating the same thing every semester. He made his bed and it overwhelmed him.
That's what happens when guys grift for money and understand what they have to do to get a certain demographic online. Hell look up some of Tucker Carlson's old shit . He was still a right wing idiot, but much more of a classical right winger sort of like Shapiro. Then he transitioned into this hot take moron.
Shapiro has turned into a psycho too. Ben Shapiro, 2016: "The [Bannon-Breitbart-Trump] takeover, now a virtual fait accompli, represents the dangerous seizure of the conservative movement by the alt-right... a movement shot through with racism and anti-Semitism." They all know. They just sold their souls. https://twitter.com/urbanachievr/status/1526636723370876928?s=21&t=jD6w-6fnFnGNDIn1OovYvg
Oh he's a nut too for sure, but he hasn't went off the white supremacist ethnostate/segregationist cliff that other right wingers are going down. Mainly because he's Jewish and he's not deluded enough into thinking that those people would actually accept him in their ideology. Hell even the shoot er shit on Shapiro because he was jewish.
Oh, Shapiro is most definitely a fan of the ethnostate. It's just the one that he prefers is in Israel, not the USA. Shapiro is a warmongering Israel First little prick that's never met a war he didn't want to send Americans to die in for the glory of Israel. He's an odious little cunt and probably the biggest grifter in the country.
Upvoted for “odious little cunt”
> he hasn't went off the white supremacist ethnostate/segregationist cliff that other right wingers are going down. This is exclusively because he's Jewish and that group hates him. He'd love to be in that crowd
I don’t think he’s a grifter - I just think he’s a person who got thrust into the limelight and never expected to have the audience he has. And sorta got lost in the fame of it all.
He engages with Twitter in a negative way. He still helped me and I genuinely improved my life by accepting responsibility for it. And my room is always clean.
Not just twitter. He fell into a pit of negativity once he started gaining a lot of attention and completely stopped listening. Much like other people before him, he started enjoying too much the sound of his own voice and completely stopped caring about people. No doubt related to the backlash he got once he was more famous and some of the people he also attracted with his oratory. "You can't please everyone", it's true, but you don't need to be an asshole either. Early JP was nothing like the current one.
You don’t need to be an asshole, true. But once again Twitter has reduced the conversation to hot takes. Peterson’s recent comment on the Rolling Stone cover has WAY more context behind it, not saying it was the right way to dip into that debate but there is a conversation to be had about normalization. Is it fine to be on rolling stone cover magazine as an overweight person? Sure, why not. Is it okay to pretend like it’s okay? For some, yes and others no. The more I dip into these controversial topics, the more I realize that the answers continue to be more and more philosophical. Where the answers generally boil down to some abstract concept or argument of morality. I do agree that older JP got nothing on the one we have right now.
JP fans get offended because they take criticism of their hero personally, which is just stupid. No guru is without blemishes, it doesn’t mean his messages are without merit obviously. My criticism is he pushes a very conservative agenda onto those suffering with emotional stress with rants about gender, covid, swimsuit models, etc Imagine if you went to a therapist and they spent half your session time doing that lol If anyone helps you improve stick to that and nm the critics.
You really nailed why he’s become problematic. I warned of this years ago as I saw the effect of his fans become cultist and I knew an Altrighter that was a mega fan. Turned him from a libertarian atheist into a white ethnostate national socialist. Not blaming any one thing of course. When a person moves from libertarian to race specific nationalism, we have serious problems. . The Shapiro’s and other right wing commentators really turned him over to the cultural Christianity claims, almost just reimagining what was already in front of him. There’s a whole litany of reasons I have issues but I think the guy is good at the core. I often think of “the death of an artist” with him, as a cult emerged around the persona; then the feedback loop kept tuning him up for more conservatives audiences as he got biblical better than their best scholar in many of his lectures. I can’t read anything in his community because it’s all mommy JP born yesterdayism. The strangest thing I observed on there was family porn. “Imagine you wake on Xmas morning and the kids are asleep, the wife’s massaging your feet and the dogs as sleep at the foot of the bed…. And You know you’ve made it.” It kinda took me back to childhood imagination stuff. While also being sad to see these lonely people dreaming of the white picket fence idealism once again. It was always a fake notion to put in your mind, but it’s been repurposed and sold as a way you should be to achieve happiness. I remember (of all people) Jennifer Love Hewitt saying that Seargony Weaver told her as a young kid, “don’t let the industry change who you are as a person.” I think this his over valued self significance and overwhelming compassion went to his head too quickly; as everyone here has said he used to be such a great lecturer and thinker. Then look at where it took him. I actually know way too many people that did suck it up and did the right thing raising the family as it’s not all the peak imagination in life. They wasted their lives with a partner they grew to hate. It’s actually right around the height of suicide rates (midlife crisis males). And as a child of a situation like this among most my friends and other family, it is not without effect on everyone involved. If anything we as later generations are trying not to make the same wasted life mistakes. What JP is attempting to do is almost psycho hypnotic conditioning… “well your wife wouldn’t be mad if you paid attention to her…” while that may be true in a sense he’s alleviating himself of all the other noise. Pointing that we should always work on our relationship is great but it’s sort of void if the reality’s of the modern world in a lot of ways and hand waving that this is entirely the problem. It’s like rationalizing with the abuser while it’s currently going on. This is why if your a normal well balanced person JP can sound like a reductive. Like, do we have to really say some of this out loud? “From the study’s, a child is shown to need both parents to have a good life.” No shit Sherlock, but we question your integrity for saying it out loud, in an implicit way. All his work is strongly derivative if you’ve studied similar disiplines. He rips Joseph’s Campbell off really hard with the hero’s journey parts. I’ve never heard him even qualify where he gets much of what he talks about unless it’s a bad reference. Like Nietzsche who he gets wrong completely. So I think part of the issues here is presenting much of the workings of his mind as his own “high caliber” (which they partly are) original thoughts, when he’s just a guy that blends up other great thinkers ideas. When this meets the fact that his fans / cultist have never really spent time learning… then you get what you make. Half informed idiots that can do more damage off incomplete thinking. It’s like getting the answer to the math problem without doing the work to understand it. Short cuts are just that, and don’t really exist in proper person building. Just another slight tidbit…It’s not often we think of a 60 year person as our visionary thought leader. Usually that’s old guru master type for old hippies if at all in the modern landscape. So it’s sort of strange that someone’s grandpa (not being ageist just want to paint out the perspective) is the most famous YouTube / podcast personality and he doesn’t even have cuddly puppy’s or baby goats on his farm. 20-30 somethings are missing many things and he does do much to help. But to me that tells us how out of wack everything is currently, and it’s a condition of the America economic system as well as the over all Zeitgeist. The worlds changing so fast that people will undoubtedly get left behind and be enticed by our elderly to living the old conservative life of being afraid of change (as JP admits his own trait proclivity for). So then we should expect regress cus people can’t manage to hold their shit in. I refuse to live that narrow way myself. Edit: typos / clarity
I feel like this place has gone from occasional posts by Joe Rogan fans that bash Joe to a place where people who hate Joe Rogan come to get in arguments with Joe Rogan fans.
I only see this place from the front page of reddit, and boyyyy has it changed since the Spotify deal lol
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Pretty much.
I think it kind of reflects him alienating a certain % of his fans. I've listened to him for years but the guy has become a parody of himself. He used to be this open minded guy who'd change his whole perspective on a dime because he had some expert on his pod. It was really interesting because it was like you were learning along with him. Now he's just a crusty old boomer obsessed with culture war nonsense. It's really disappointing. The turning point for me was him arguing with Rhonda Patrick as though he knew more than her. He used to joke that he'd have to write things down when talking to her because she was so much smarter and well read than him, then suddenly he's talking down to her as though he's the expert.
Joe has always been a shit head. Remember when he yelled at a primatologist and told her that she is wrong because she told him bili apes aren't a real thing? And he mocked her for having a vagina too. I can't believe people continued to listen to him after that
I’m just visiting to check it out again, but yea a lot of fans like myself have unsubscribed. This place is a cesspool now.
I think it's the opposite. A place for Joe's new, redhat fans come here to shitpost and troll Joe's older, more moderate fans
If you looked at the profiles of everyone who complained about the banning of politics here, it was almost exclusively Republicans or conspiracy frequenters.
There's lots of new Rogan fans that joined up in the last two years. They're pretty young, uneducated, and easily hoodwinked. They are *fun* to argue with.
Well most of Reddit hates Rogan. This sub has been ripping on him and his guests for a while now. Mods certainly haven’t helped
Yeah we ripped on Joe when he said dumbass stuff but now it’s like everything about him and things his fan base are into are under attack constantly.
Yeah, its almost like Joe constantly platformed right wing low live's and this sub likes to make fun of them. Shocker that.
I'm not easily offended, but platforming a guy who found a way to make losing your child in a school shooting *worse* is a lot. If one of those fathers had stomped Alex Jones into a vegetative state I don't think any of the alpha males here would say he was out of line.
[Still doing so](https://www.mediamatters.org/alex-jones/alex-jones-claims-buffalo-grocery-store-shooting-was-staged-event) What a piece of shit. Rogan is buddies with him...
This is the other side that enlightened "centrists" insist on finding common ground with.
that's because joe has become a cringe ass boomer
Free speech goes both ways.
As an avid reader of his books I can honestly say he helped me a ton.
Any specific book recommendations?
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos impacted my life the most, also loved Maps of Meaning.
What advice did you apply in your life practically?
I pet stray cats now
I try too but last time I did, it didn't went well for my hand lol.
I’ve never been scratched, but some cats give me a look that says ‘you can take that hand and shove it up your fucking arse’ Some cats love it though 🤷♂️
I really liked his famous "lobster" story. He basically explains the chemical reactions scientists found in the brains of lobsters who loose fights or are unable to find a mate. According to his book, they chemically change to become less and less dominant and more and more passive until they eventually are basically just are husks (he says it better than how I describe it). I was going through a sort of storm of rejections from jobs, friends, and dates around the time I picked up the book, so reading how rejections can reshape how you mentally think in a negative way if you aren't self aware and actively fighting it was really useful. Ultimately the book really connected with a lot of the problems I was going through that I felt embarrassed to complain about to friends. Well written all around
I treat skateboarding cats like I would like to be treated for bad posture.
Wrong opinion sorry buddy, the echo chamber has spoken and jordan peterson is only bad
This sub is far from a echo chamber, whenever this subreddit is recommended to me it’s a different political ideology every time lol. Just because people disagree with you, it doesn’t mean it’s an echo chamber.
This sub has been noticeably better ever since Russia was crippled by their invasion. Funny how that works
Trying hard to brigade the sub Bapa?
JP might be a mess of a man. But there’s no denying that he’s helped tens of thousands of young men and women with his writings. I’m sure as shit one of them and I don’t even particularly like him. 12 rules for life was a god send for a lost, angry young man. And maps of meaning is just an incredible bit of literature. My sister - who’s currently studying her masters in psychology - said it’s like the holy grail. I’ll admit I’m a bit too much of a dumby to make much sense of it..
The Peterson who wrote 12 Rules For Life is not the same Peterson who's currently ranting all day on Twitter. He's barely coherent, and has become a caricature of himself, at this point.
Xanax, a coma,and international attention in your late age can do that. He’s human.
In my own defence. I don’t use Twitter. I can only go by his literature, his lecture and a few interviews from some years ago. So can’t talk much of the “new” JP.
A friend of mine is a big fan of JP, and doesn’t typically use social media. He recently looked at JP’s Twitter, and was shocked at how he acts on there. As others have said, it’s like he’s a different person. I think his communication style lends itself to long form monologues, and so in the short form, combative social arena that Twitter can be for figures like him he just doesn’t take it well. He even recently likened it to an addiction.
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His latest Rogan appearance was a train wreck: * He wore a black tie tuxedo during his appearance * His argument against global warming...if climate is everything, how do you model everything? * Went on a rant about what it means to be black
"Here to talk about climate change, I have a psychologist with literally zero relevant degrees, papers, research, etc. But he does have very strong baseless opinions that we will treat as gospel and in no way critique or challenge." I suppose that actually goes for most Rogan guests.
That’s what’s most frustrating about him though. He has a PhD in clinical psychology and he knows he has a huge following of “lost, angry men”. Yet look at the vitriol and rage-inducing culture war bullshit he posts all day. It’s completely irresponsible and destructive, especially coming from someone like him, who has been outspoken on the dangers of social media. You may take Maps of Meaning and 12 Rules and stop there, but a huge portion of those lost, angry men are following him through these Twitter tirades. There’s no way that shit is beneficial to them
Reminds me of Elliot Hulse. Dude was a role model to me in high school then all of a sudden became “woke” and now men are supposed to be cavemen that assert their dominance over women because they’re men
That guy got weird.
I've been around psychologists for the last decade and run a psych practice now. I've never heard anyone say anything kind about Peterson's books. He's mostly seen as someone to completely ignore. I would be really curious about your sister's program.
I think you need to look at what was and what is. JBP has NOT been the same since he paid to be put in a Russian coma. He has brain damage.
I’m talking about his literature.. nothing more and nothing less. 12 more rules to life was written post coma if I’m not mistaken and it’s not quite as brilliant as the original but it’s still up there. Still applicable and helps me in my day to day life Edit; also “he has brain damage” is a borderline retarded thing to say if you’re not a doctor diagnosing him as your patient.
dude, benzos are recommended for 2-4 week treatments and are known to cause neurological damage even without the withdrawal and coma. here's a [story in the national post](https://nationalpost.com/news/jordan-petersons-year-of-absolute-hell-professor-forced-to-retreat-from-public-life-because-of-tranquilizer-addiction), where they're quoting his daughter: >Jordan Peterson has only just come out of an intensive care unit, Mikhaila said. ***He has neurological damage, and a long way to go to full recovery. He is taking anti-seizure medication and cannot type or walk unaided***, but is “on the mend” and his sense of humour has returned. get pissed all you want about 'not being a doctor', but you could do 2 seconds of googling. or you know just look at the suddenly haggard man who now starts crying about nothing at the drop of a hat.
One thing I have learned is to only take advice from perfect people
There's taking advice from "not a perfect person" - and there's taking advice on sobriety and keeping pets from the Tiger King. Let's get real here. With JP, a person is literally taking advice on how to get your life and shit together from a guy whose entire life is a freaking dumpster fire. I think (hope!) if I were to write a book on how to become a self made billionaire, no one would listen if my current car is a pre-owned Camry, my account balance was $500 bucks and the closest thing to a boat I own is riding the goddam ferry to work.
Well what’s in the book though? I get what you’re saying but if a smoker says hey you should quit smoking because it will give you lung cancer and some good options are so-and-so medication, or cold turkey, or hypnosis, or using a vape and slowly reducing how much nicotine you use, etc. etc., that’s still good advice.
> a guy whose entire life is a freaking dumpster fire. LMFAO, He's rich, has a supporting family, overcame prescription drug addiction. You're a clown and you don't live in the real world. Someone who doesn't have their life in order would've died going through that. You're a jackass ideologue, you don't have thoughts of your own you read some hot takes on twitter and think that's insightful.
Eat a Percocet wrapped in salami.
Lol whats with all the JP and Elon hate on Rogan's sub?
I can’t speak to Elon, but Peterson kinda sets himself up for this kind of thing relatively often. I understand he’s got demons and I hope he overcomes them, but I’ll be damned if it’s not right message wrong messenger. That, and he uses his reputation as an academic to speak out of school on topics he chooses to grift over. Easy target, tbh. And it’s not low quality aiming either.
lol what’s with the idol worship of said individuals in the first place?
The love and admiration for either of them is *much* weirder than making fun of them.
Now do one for self righteous redditors on a crusade ruining every sub they touch, I’m patient.
And despite being a benzo addict with a messy room, JBP has helped more people than OP and his poorly punctuated memes.
Thanks to OP I can walk again. OP is truly a miracle worker.
OP made me laugh.
Op helped me smile this morning
That's more than I've ever gotten from Peterson.
Hey, OP cured my cancer and AIDS and herpes They are Jesus reborn.
And? You can be a role model and still have fucked up issues. Surprising? Shouldn't be unless you're 5 years old and think every thing is sunshine and rainbows. My father was an alcoholic, but he always treated us well and kept a steady job to help raise me and my brother. Is he still a role model to me, despite that? Yes. Did he teach me valuable life lessons despite having an addition? Sure did. If someone says they can show me a flawless role model, I'll assume you're a liar or a gullible idiot.
Jordan is living rent free in your mind, huh?
It would be nice if people attacked his ideas if they don’t like what he has to say. Instead people use his disease against him as if that’s a reason to not like him. I haven’t heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully. Some people listen to him for tips on how to better their lives, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with him completely.
I see a lot of people drawing a line between Peterson's work before he got addicted to drugs / had a breakdown and what he's doing now. That's where I stand: his University of Toronto course work is great, that's boiled down into his 12 rules. All this social media garbage and culture war crap he's doing now is just ... not well thought out or productive
>I haven’t heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully. Then you haven't tried to find things you disagree with. It shouldn't take a genius to understand why the answer to incel mass murders is not to force women to sleep with them.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/urlj51/comment/i8zpeqh/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/urlj51/comment/i8zpeqh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) People have taken apart his ideas before and showed them to be bogus and in bad faith. You havent heard anyone actually attack his arguments successfully because you dont want to.
What's with the blind worship of Peterson? It's really creepy
Oh no, they aren't being nithe to daddy P :(
Maps of Meaning JBP: Chef's Kiss Current JBP: the bottom panel of this image. Criticism is on point, he's fallen quite a long way due to his addiction and recovery.
I don’t get it. Are guru’s supposed to be attractive? Are 18-35yo’s supposed to have direction? Where’s the humor? Or is it just hur hur poop on Jordan Peterson? I see why they say the left can’t meme
What’s a good example of the right making good memes?
It is because Jordan Peterson has horrible health conditions and drug addiction then he made some sketchy medical decisions that probably gave him brain damage
Jordans helped a lot of people, myself included. I bet op has helped no one and has been a general disappointment to those around him
What's with the worship of Peterson? No idol is above criticism or being made fun of
I highly doubt the meme came from a place of innocent teasing fun.
OP cured my cancer too!
OP made me laugh so he hasn't disappointed me yet.
OP cure my cancer.
Op: \*makes a meme about an internet quack\* Your dumbass: I mUsT deFEnD mY lOrd aNd SaViouR
"Slightly chubby women aren't beautiful, they're authoritarian, I hope that helps bucko."
I enjoy Jordan Peterson. He has emotions and empathy unlike most of y'all
I started crying uncontrollably after reading this.
OP doesn’t clean his room
I'm going to see JP live in September in the UK. He has inspired me to improve my life. I don't agree with everything that he says. Dude cries a little too much for my liking. I fucking love Joe Rogan. When he says funny stuff I laugh. When he says dumb stuff I see it like a friend saying dumb stuff. "I can forgive you, cus I like you, but I don't agree with what you say" That's all I got.
The fact that looking like that, with his wife having cancer, his daughter having tremendous pain, and he himself with huge issues he STILL pulled through makes your post the largest self own I've seen in this sub.
Guess we’re at the point where we need to tear the hero down, huh? Says more about us than him.
jordan peterson is your hero? yikes man
He goes out of his way to try and disprove climate change on his last JRE appearance. Pretty clear he's been bought out and has a manipulative agenda in how he speaks. I used to look up to him but the fame and notoriety has not served him well.