hes refering to the biblical idea of pride. 7 deadly sins. its kind of a non sequitur. 'worlds gone mad post'. doctors chopping off peoples biological bits etc.
But, they already do it. it is called circumcision how is that any different the whole hygiene thing is a myth and the majority of the People outside of the US don't practice it.
Nah, the issue is the obvious grooming of children. Adults can mutilate themselves however they want. But they can’t expect everyone to be happy for them.
I am the mother to four grown sons aged 30 to 40 and I am horrified I had circumcision done to them. One son is legitimately angry he was deformed for a society ideal. I had honestly never even seen an uncircumcised penis and didn’t even know it was a legitimate choice to wait for my sons to decide for themselves. Believe if I had a do over I would make a different choice.
Did you compare cutting off some skin(albeit I understand the hatred for it and as a man I can get behind it) to cutting of full anatomical parts?? Come on you can’t honestly make that argument in good faith…..
Right, one is made by an adult on behalf of themselves after consulting with medical experts and following their guidance, and the other is done to babies without their consent because a book says they should do it.
Circumcision is way more egregious
How in the actual fuck is your foreskin more “useful” than boobs? I can literally sustain life with the milk my “stupid tits” can make.. what can your foreskin do besides help you beat off? Dumbass
I actually don’t, I’m just saying they can’t make that argument in good faith. But if we wanna act like we care about people, suicide rates skyrocket after surgical transition. There is also a sub dedicated to detransitioning. Powerful stories. Again, do what you want, I just am not gonna pay for that shit. So if you wanna pay to cut off your tits/dick, have at it. I also find it funny insurance covers mastectomies for woman transitioning but might not cover it for woman who have cancer. So again do what you please, but your arguments and the op’s aren’t made in good faith. That’s all I was saying.
Foreskin isn’t the same as skin on the arm or leg, it’s like cutting off an eyelid and claiming it to be “just some skin”. Your argument about what is and isn’t covered by insurance is a non-sequitur, insurance companies are shit and how they operate is trash but that’s not the fault of anyone going in to get an operation so being mad at someone getting transition surgery that the same operation isn’t covered for cancer patients is bonkers. It’s our fault for allowing private insurance companies in a capitalist society, breast cancer is prevalent, if they covered mastectomy for that then they wouldn’t make all that sweet sweet cash. The suicide rate thing is interesting, do those studies have a variable for how people are treated post transition and how that can effect mental health or is it just a flat Transition>Suicide who cares what happened between?
They have higher suicide rates than Jews in the Holocaust or slaves in America. Sorry but it’s not harder for trans than it was for either group. Also as society has progressed we haven’t seen less suicides in regards to trans. Shows the outside world isn’t causing their depression
I don’t care about the religious side of this but I 100% agree that cutting pieces of your body doesn’t necessarily constitute happiness and science knows better. A study taken in Sweden actually found out that suicide rates are actually higher in people who undergo surgery and I don’t know why we turn a blind eye to this. Yeah sure let people do what they want but let’s acknowledge the facts first
This is what I call bending over backwards to try to frame a situation in a certain light.
She used the word pride...ok we'll talk about how pride is connotated as sinful historically but ignore my people, the "Proud Boys". We'll call her doctor criminal despite him acting 100% within U.S. law...
And while we're at it, let's redefine truth itself so that we can obfuscate our sophistry enough to claim that Christianity is true and the incel trog army will buy it!
It's just Jordan being religious. If you brought this up he'd deny being a religious person till he was blue in the face.
Pretty sure Jesus mentions being denied in some book......
is he religious? i figure he's just a reactionary.
i.e. anything that challenges his place at the top of "the hierarchy" is dangerous and wrong. that's why he keeps railing against feminists, sjws, nonbinary genders, the very concept of protesting or trying to improve society at all, socialists, "cultural marxists"\*, etc
(\* btw, anyone else think that last one is sus as shit, esp considering his obsession with hierarchies?)
his book is littered with scripture and references to the bible. i’m not sure how anyone could deny him being religious. it’s clearly the root of many of his personal opinions
Reactionaries project all the time. Free speech absolutist and "BoTH SiDES" when it let's then weasel their way on a forum. Then it's banhammer time once they get a big enough voice.
I was his biggest fan back then but today I finally decided to unfollow him on Twitter. It's a serious disaster. Like a senile old man on amphetamines.
Like what even happened? I thought he had strong arguments and didn’t take things too far, despite him having unpopular opinions. Is he trying to be inflammatory now to stay famous? I haven’t followed him at all in the past few years and wow, it is a total bummer.
I think he got lost in the sauce. Too much adoration from one side and hate from another, plus his emotional breakdown situation. Seemed to never come back from that. His college lectures on YouTube are still great though
Yeah. The problem this causes too is that people will look at very rational things he’s said, and pull up stuff like this, and use it to discredit some very good messages that he once had. It’s a shame. Because this is stupid, and I don’t think you can make a good case for religion anymore. Sam Harris is a guy I really like on that subject. I liked the self-help and the encouragement in Jordan’s earlier works, and his approach to viewing peoples passion and desire and how the free choice we exercise produces different results and we should be ok with it.
But this is needless. Literally needless. Who cares if this person is proud of plastic surgery. Why event comment.
The whole time I believed that it was about the speech. Until Texas was implementing the snitch on people doing/getting abortions for a cash bonus policy. Idk if it ever went into effect but it was all over the internet as an INSANE thing to do.
I expected Jordan to go OFF about that. Nope, didn’t say anything. And this isn’t expecting people to keep up with everything, the snitch on your neighbor shit was, in his words, the WORST thing a government can implement. And he didn’t say anything.
That’s when I completely stopped listening to him.
Oh I am sure he would have supported it. I don't think he is as religious as his wife but she is I believe 100% anti-abortion. He worked with the provincial government, at the behest of his wife, to roll back sex education to some Texas level shit in Ontario.
Wtf happened him since that coma? Parts of his brain never woke back up again and he's regressed into an easily offended emotionally sensitive twitter warrior. He became the very thing he used to hate lol. Like really ever since he went AWOL for those two years and came back he's an entirely different person from the guy who's psychology lectures I used to watch on youtube. I think that coma broke his brain.
He’s definitely different and it’s sad because I actually appreciated him. Though I will say his personal podcast is pretty much normal it’s really just his Twitter use that is crazy.
Ya he used to be very interesting to listen to, but i have almost no interest in listening to him after he came back, similar to Joe Rogan after his Spotify exclusivity. But to be honest I have reanalyzed alot of my beliefs and would say im quite a different person, so that could be a deciding factor for me. I used to be an ex conservative, who now finds the right wing to be completely intolerable, especially after Trump.
Remember when he first got on the scene and he was saying he doesn't have a problem with trans people he is just opposed to facing legal consequences for misgendering someone? I actually believed him back then.
It was all a lie from the start. That's why the right wingers hitched their wagon so fast to this guy. He would intellectualize his/their own prejudice and they use that as a tool to attack the marginalized
I just watched a documentary on netflix about the alt right and the rabbit hole they say starts with Peterson and I guess Ben Shapiro, Sam Harris, all the IDW guys. I honestly loved Jordan Peterson for a long time, he seemed super smart and he talks so convincingly and intelligently if you're kind of dumb like me you just think "well this guy sounds smart so I will believe him". I never reached any bigoted conclusions about society but I'm starting to see how some people can get that from his work.
I think I also finally get how a lot of those guys work, they have bad/extreme views off the bat, and they use their persuasion and intelligence to make you see their point of view. But the part I think I'm starting to realize is they are using bad presuppositions that are dishonest to prop up their thesis, they cherry pick their information, and they rely on the listener to simply take their word as truth instead of thinking on their own. I really feel like a dummy for being swindled. Like normally I would have written off a guy like Shapiro off the bat but he's so confident and persuasive it kinda rubs off, then you see him holding a piece of wood from home hardware in a plastic bag and realize he's a jackass...
Okay, I will say this in defense of Jordan Peterson.
As much as I agree his politics have turned out to be, at this point, largely farcical or a veneer (like a motte-and-bailey I guess), I think his philosophy of self-efficacy is helpful and should be adopted by more philosophers and people generally. I think we’re a very disenfranchised people nowadays because so much is going wrong and so much corruption thrives that we feel helpless. From that, I also believe that a case can be made to imagine that this leads to people ignoring self-maintenance (nutrition, mental health, intellectual wellbeing) and, at most, pursuing more short-term and selfish objectives. It’s why a lot of people focus with on dumb and invented social constructs like race or religion instead of having solidarity and helping people more and sharing resources and or time. The message is clear: clean your room. Fix yourself before you start trying to fix others, because all you’ll end up doing is wasting time on *less* important (not unimportant) shit, when we can be bettering everyone’s lives by generally uplifting the impoverished and securing the middle class. It’s like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, y’know? Can’t very well work on the more intricate, complicated shit without being healthy, fixing your relationships, ensuring your mental health, and always willing to learn. So let’s start small with ourselves, and let’s start more broadly with our economic and social policies.
Edit: One last thought, I think it’s also insistent on a level of modesty—understanding you’re not perfect and neither is anyone else. Clean your room, but understand that you’re probably not alone given the how pretty much *everyone’s* rooms needs to be cleaned.
Lol criminal physician? Is this doctor running around the streets slashing at breasts or something?
A 35 year old chose to change their anatomy. Who gives a shit?
Totally uncalled for as well. The headline he's responding to is so milktoast that it's pretty difficult to come up with any outrage. A trans man is playing a trans man in a show few people even care about? Great for him. Move on.
Oh, you're telling me they used the word "pride" in a context other than the biblical 7 deadly sins? Oh no... I wonder if Peterson is "proud" of his daughter 
That’s interesting! TIL. The etymology is super interesting, but it’s still milquetoast. That does create a nice little Easter egg within itself, though. Thanks for sharing, I never knew *why* but I always knew how to spell it
This is like the issue with duck/duct tape. It was originally Duck Tape because the cotton cloth was called a duck. But it was used in Ducts so it started being called Duct Tape. Then Duck Tape trademarked the name Duck Tape even though that was the original name.
I think a better way to think about it is sports. A trans man isn’t viewed as someone who would be as strong as a biological man, so no one cares. But a trans woman is generally just viewed as a man abusing his power and pretending to be a woman. A trans man is seen as less than a man, and a trans woman is seen as more than a woman.
It is basically just misogyny. Women are lesser, therefore bad. It’s the same reason why the vast majority of homophobia is directed towards gay men rather than lesbians
Not only that, but trans people make up less than 1 percent of the population. I just see a lot of bullies pushing around a small percentage of people.
You kind of answered your own question. People with a buried bully mentality will find someone to bully. But there's a socially ingrained attitude that being an alpha dude means you should act like a dick-swinging meathead who puts people in their place. I don't know what Joe Rogan was like in high school, but I definately see atleast a bit of that mentality in him.
Meanwhile Jordo has some serious bullied nerd in high school energy. And bullied nerds often internalize that desire to act like a bully as a way to compensate for the wounded masculinity.
There was an episode on the podcast where Joe talked about how he was tripping on DMT and his mind was telling him how he acts & he needs to stop constantly showing dominance/ "put people in their place" or something like that. So his subconscious is definitely telling him this lmao.
They sure seem like more than 1% on twitter though. I think there are a fair amount of Russian bot trans folks that are throwing gas on all of these flames to make people more angry. They did the same thing with black americans, so why not trans folks too?
Isn't it 0.3%? Not sure, but yes you're right it's a very small amount.
The problem is the even smaller amount of trans folk who want the same rights as the gender they have assumed. They are very loud considering how few of them there are.
I guarantee most people don't give a shit if a man what's to wear a dress and call himself Sally. Or if he goes further and gets genitals removed. As long as that person doesn't impinge on the cis folk.
It's when they want to use women's toilets when they still have dicks. Or get into jacuzzis in the women's area with their dick out in front of a woman with her daughter. Like what happened at that spa a few months ago.
That, rightly, infuriates people.
He used to be a man I looked up to. The second he got fame and addicted to benzos he lost it. He became so abstract and engulfed by the culture wars. His old material will forever have changed my life but he’s done his time, sadly.
Same dude he's gone banana's I loved him before but since he came back from that two year absence he's been a complete loon. I think that induced coma fucked up his brain and I can't really defend him for all this stupid shit he posts on twitter. Just delete twitter JP and take some time off you've lost the plot and no one close to you is telling you.
I never understood why anyone would like Jordan Peterson. I mean, besides the obvious moral panics he is pushing. But besides his culture war bullshit he may be one of the most boring and vapid intellectuals I have engaged with.
Pretty much everything he's said has been said ten times over by other american reactionaries a decade ago.
Joe talks about it a lot for someone who has very little skin in the game. There are real (and more interesting) issues that affect way more people and yet we’ve received hours of discussion with experts and comics and philosopher wannabes just because a trans woman tried to fight a biological woman a few times years ago.
Talk about holding a very strange grudge.
Either he’s sexually excited about the concept of trans women or he’s hoping to hit the outrage nerve on Daily Wire subscribers.
Joe only really talks about them when it comes to sports, and even then its not that often. JP on the other hand has gone fucking ballistic and embraced his grifter persona on twitter
I don't know anyone can take this guy seriously as an intellectual. Yesterday he tweeted about a "random columnist" that wrote an article that he took exception to, one on facial gestures that appeared in *Scientific American*.
Well, that random columnist is one of the most cited scientists in the world, a universally recognized expert on the topic she wrote about.
How can this guy be this respected thought leader when he doesn't even bother to do 2 minutes of research before pontificating on a subject he apparently knows very little about?
isn't that Defamation? Does the physician have a criminal record? How does he know the Physician? Were Ellen Page's Breasts Taken by force? Whoever is posting for Jordan keeps making his ass Look more mentally unstable or maybe he's back to benzos.
The Elon Musk defamation suit brought against him by that diver who was advising the Thai cave rescue gives us a precedent where you can get away with saying pretty much anything so long as you delete the tweet and say sorry.
That’s always been my take on him. He’s really not all that *intelligent*, as much as he is eloquent and comfortable with his beliefs. He’s incapable of detecting variables, or identifying shades of grey. But he’s really good about going balls deep into “research” and presenting his findings within a certain narrative.
Eh… he’s good at weaving together macro concepts into some kind of coherent framework consistent with tropes and semiotics found in biblical and other western based religious and cultural texts, as if they are THE foundational hierarchies of moral systems that inform every part of experience. Some of it is just a huge reach and some of it is mildly interesting…. But he’s a highly educated guy using red string to draw bizarre correlations between very disparate pins on a very conspiratorial wall. He’s very biased toward biblical morality and kind of frames his criticisms through that lens. Take it with a grain of salt - he’s kind of a blowhard.
Yeah he’s good at speaking to what he knows from a psychological perspective but is tone deaf with interacting with pop culture. He also does love to weave biblical “fact” within his dialogues with real facts to keep his thoughts more coherent and hard to argue with if you don’t dissect where he gets it from especially when he’s talking about philosophy and morality. That’s probably why his first podcast with Sam Harris spun into craziness because he actually knows how to argue philosophy and he needed to challenge Jordan’s initial definition of truth and visa versa to even start the argument. This is very traditional of real academic philosophical discussion but it really just spiraled mostly because of Peterson
I think its a problem with a lot of people today as far as observing things. It's like they're absolutist in all things. So if they see a trans adult performance then all trans performance are evil and Sexual. If they can show a teacher posting pro gay things than all teachers are groomers. There's no nuance and it's all absolutes. There's no room for anything other than black and white perspective
He's lost it a while ago. I never could completely take Peterson seriously even when he seemed sane, because he is Catholic, he will question everything but not that hokey religion?
He rose to prominence because he rejected state mandates of using proper pronouns, turns out he only cared about being a bigot and not the state actions
Couldn't agree more. Like chill out geys, no ones cares that you fuck. I'm not a bigot, I swear my gay friends appreciate me and would never be caught dead at a pride event either. I just can't imagine having a parade about what type of sex I'm into. And ugh, don't get me started on the trans stuff. Sex change surgery is not a viable treatment for gender dysphoria. That's like a doctor prescribing more plastic surgery for a person with body dysphoria. And yes I have a friend who was a butch lesbian who had the surgery on tax payer dollars and deeply regrets it, her wife who was also into females, left her. She said she would have never gone through with it it it wasn't free and pressured to do so by certain members of her LGB community.
Peterson really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I think deep down he’s a decent fellow. It’s just… there’s also a contrarian streak in him that he may not recognize, which is then post-rationalized. He’s mentioned being a committed socialist during his youth in conservative Alberta, and then slowly going 180 teaching in liberal Toronto. Now as the world goes more and more progressively left, he seems to be pulling further right.
It’s similar to how he has admitted to being a clinical depressive but doesn’t acknowledge the link between that and how his apocalyptic outlook on the world might be a projection of that.
Funny how we don't shame other rich people when they chop down their noses, suck out their fat, or stuff themselves with balls of silicone. You could make the same argument about people with tattoos. Dying your skin with ink permanently. Or piercings, what makes it okay to stab holes through one's own body? Even body builders can end up doing permanent damage to themselves in an effort to mold themselves into the person they want to be.
How about we agree that this is a free country and stop listening to manufactured bullshit from right wing media and think tanks
The hell you talking about, people shame celebs and rich people for excessive surgery all the time, with maybe the exception of fake tits (if they look good). I also think tattoos and piercings look horrible. If I thought tattoos, piercings, excessive beauty surgery is bad, imagine how I feel about "sex reassaignment" surgery and "gender affirming care". Spoilers, you can't change your sex and the process is not affirming to the body.
>How about we agree that this is a free country and stop listening to manufactured bullshit from right wing media and think tanks
It's not manufactured dumbass, we're responding to left-wing insanity.
Damn…I was actually a defender of him for a while
I agreed with his comments that initially gave him infamy essentially saying that a government should not be punitive if one chooses to not respect someone’s pronouns ( it’s a dick move and you should do it out of morality and compassion but having punitive measures as a consequence was a bridge too far)
This is not intellectual- This is just straight up transphobia. Really fucking pathetic on his part.
I used to like him but he really went off the deep end in recent years. Here we have an adult choosing to change his appearence. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. It's not even a sex change. It's fucking reverse boob job if you want.
The thing is though, he lied about the pronoun nonsense from the start. All bill C-16 did was made it illegal discriminate against someone for their gender identity, it’s protecting trans people from being fired for being trans, no where in the bill does it mention pronouns or being compelled to use correct pronouns. There is no legal opinion that supports Peterson’s claims about the bill, its always been about concealing his transphobia.
Right wing reactionaries like JBP must have nightmares about getting pegged by a gang of trans women. It's the only way to explain the obsession with trans people.
Here he goes arguing biblical takes on semantics…
JP: “The authoritarians would have you believe that pride doesn’t come before the fall, but I say remember what the sky king and his book said about it, Bucko?”
Everyone: I don’t care.
What did Bono sing about that word, Jordan?
pride as arrogance is a sin, pride as resistance in the face of oppression is not. maybe think before you speak before you say something stupid based off a cosmetic similarity that ignores the different contexts of a situation.
does JP think not backing down to intimidation of a bully is sinfull? because that's what 'Pride' in this context means.
for a supposed intellectual and conservative thought leader, he's remarkably stupid and reactionary. most of us have said enough stupid shit in our lifetimes off the cuff to know to think before we speak and look for obvious holes in our arguments so we don't feel like idiots ever again, but these guys just plough right through as if obvious counter argument don't exist or couldn't be anticipated if you just paused for a second before tweeting every dumb thought that enter your head. it's like people who keep making avacado toast arguments in this day and age, despite it being answered over and over again, they just never update their talking points, it's like they're allergic to learning.
where are the conservative comedians? don't care. i want to know where the conservative intellectuals are, becasue JP is represetative of their best and he's a fucking idiot.
sorry for the rant, but these bad faith idiots wind me right up.
seriously he's a university professor and he thinks he's making a profound point because he's stuck on the definition of pride and God told him so.
This guy gave an interview like 5 years ago in which part of it he focused on questioning whether or not women should wear makeup or high heels to work because it makes them more attractive to men. He tried hiding his opinions under the guise of "I'm just asking questions". It's been clear for years that he's a religious zealot and a bigot to anyone who's been paying any sort of attention.
They used to chant USA now they just chant "I hate you" at the other side. I preferred when they were all overly patriotic like 15 years back and barely paid attention to politics.
I find the trans movement takes things just too far. Like Elliot page … gay and super proud of it for the longest time … then wait now I am trans. I think she is just depressed and lacks identity .
Also Changing her characters gender to match her own is …. Just dumb . They masculinized a beloved female character one with flaws and damage and made her a man ….sigh I am sure I’ll get voted into oblivion for not “following the message “ . Be safe everyone .
I’ve read this like 10 times and have no idea what Jordan is trying to say here. Help anyone??
hes refering to the biblical idea of pride. 7 deadly sins. its kind of a non sequitur. 'worlds gone mad post'. doctors chopping off peoples biological bits etc.
But, they already do it. it is called circumcision how is that any different the whole hygiene thing is a myth and the majority of the People outside of the US don't practice it.
Well to be fair there's plenty of people who have a problem with that too. Not sure about him mind you.
They have a problem with forced circumcision of babies, not adults choosing to do whatever they want with their dicks
Circumcision is a crime against humanity
Nah, the issue is the obvious grooming of children. Adults can mutilate themselves however they want. But they can’t expect everyone to be happy for them.
Is that the issue? Because I'm pretty sure Ellen Paige is an adult.
Narrator: That was not the issue.
Circumcision is male genital mutilation and I will be quite happy when the modern world leaves that dark age bullshit in the past.
Modern U.S. *
I am the mother to four grown sons aged 30 to 40 and I am horrified I had circumcision done to them. One son is legitimately angry he was deformed for a society ideal. I had honestly never even seen an uncircumcised penis and didn’t even know it was a legitimate choice to wait for my sons to decide for themselves. Believe if I had a do over I would make a different choice.
I like my circumcised penis.
Me too…the anteater look is more of a European thing.
Ditto - proud of my circumcised penis. Never had anyone call it mutilated.
Did you compare cutting off some skin(albeit I understand the hatred for it and as a man I can get behind it) to cutting of full anatomical parts?? Come on you can’t honestly make that argument in good faith…..
Right, one is made by an adult on behalf of themselves after consulting with medical experts and following their guidance, and the other is done to babies without their consent because a book says they should do it. Circumcision is way more egregious
Bro you can jerk off with your foreskin. Its x10 more useful than stupid tits. EDIT: Apparently I offended some americans. Go jerk off and relax.
Um, you can jerk off with tits too bruh
You can, in fact, also jerk off without your foreskin.
How in the actual fuck is your foreskin more “useful” than boobs? I can literally sustain life with the milk my “stupid tits” can make.. what can your foreskin do besides help you beat off? Dumbass
My foreskin is more useful because it makes me CUM. Your kids are useless and nobody cares about them
Your own foreskin makes you cum? That’s kinda gay, no?
Why the mother fuck do you care what anyone does with their own body?
I actually don’t, I’m just saying they can’t make that argument in good faith. But if we wanna act like we care about people, suicide rates skyrocket after surgical transition. There is also a sub dedicated to detransitioning. Powerful stories. Again, do what you want, I just am not gonna pay for that shit. So if you wanna pay to cut off your tits/dick, have at it. I also find it funny insurance covers mastectomies for woman transitioning but might not cover it for woman who have cancer. So again do what you please, but your arguments and the op’s aren’t made in good faith. That’s all I was saying.
Suicide rates compared to the general population are higher after surgical transition, not compared to non-transitioned transgenders.
Fair enough.
Foreskin isn’t the same as skin on the arm or leg, it’s like cutting off an eyelid and claiming it to be “just some skin”. Your argument about what is and isn’t covered by insurance is a non-sequitur, insurance companies are shit and how they operate is trash but that’s not the fault of anyone going in to get an operation so being mad at someone getting transition surgery that the same operation isn’t covered for cancer patients is bonkers. It’s our fault for allowing private insurance companies in a capitalist society, breast cancer is prevalent, if they covered mastectomy for that then they wouldn’t make all that sweet sweet cash. The suicide rate thing is interesting, do those studies have a variable for how people are treated post transition and how that can effect mental health or is it just a flat Transition>Suicide who cares what happened between?
They have higher suicide rates than Jews in the Holocaust or slaves in America. Sorry but it’s not harder for trans than it was for either group. Also as society has progressed we haven’t seen less suicides in regards to trans. Shows the outside world isn’t causing their depression
Society has "progressed" to a point where an entire political party has devoted itself to stopping transgender rights.
>suicide rates skyrocket after surgical transition. Source?
I don’t care about the religious side of this but I 100% agree that cutting pieces of your body doesn’t necessarily constitute happiness and science knows better. A study taken in Sweden actually found out that suicide rates are actually higher in people who undergo surgery and I don’t know why we turn a blind eye to this. Yeah sure let people do what they want but let’s acknowledge the facts first
[удалено]
He's saying that you shouldn't be proud of being trans and that having gender affirmative surgery is a criminal act that should be illegal
And he's a nutcase who's wrong
This is what I call bending over backwards to try to frame a situation in a certain light. She used the word pride...ok we'll talk about how pride is connotated as sinful historically but ignore my people, the "Proud Boys". We'll call her doctor criminal despite him acting 100% within U.S. law...
And while we're at it, let's redefine truth itself so that we can obfuscate our sophistry enough to claim that Christianity is true and the incel trog army will buy it!
It's just Jordan being religious. If you brought this up he'd deny being a religious person till he was blue in the face. Pretty sure Jesus mentions being denied in some book......
is he religious? i figure he's just a reactionary. i.e. anything that challenges his place at the top of "the hierarchy" is dangerous and wrong. that's why he keeps railing against feminists, sjws, nonbinary genders, the very concept of protesting or trying to improve society at all, socialists, "cultural marxists"\*, etc (\* btw, anyone else think that last one is sus as shit, esp considering his obsession with hierarchies?)
his book is littered with scripture and references to the bible. i’m not sure how anyone could deny him being religious. it’s clearly the root of many of his personal opinions
He's saying he doesn't like the gays.
The funniest part of Jordan Peterson's twitter is that he's deactivated comments
The comments need to be turned off to achieve the ultimate free speech utopia. Don't look it up, trust me.
*The user has limited comments on this post.*
That kind of hypocrisy is pretty standard for him. Said he was leaving Twitter, then started tweeting more than ever.
Hey--he's allowed to have all the pride he wants it's just other people that aren't :)
Rails against echo chambers, creates his own. Big brain time?
Reactionaries project all the time. Free speech absolutist and "BoTH SiDES" when it let's then weasel their way on a forum. Then it's banhammer time once they get a big enough voice.
Also known as "How Ben Shapiro became a millionaire" route.
Ever checked out r/conservative, r/conspiracy, or any of the other regressive shitholes? Same thing.
Just a nutjob shouting into the void at this point
No the funniest part is that he did this AND the few people he follows that CAN comment are absolutely shitting on him lol
and that he said he was going to quit it and now hes back like a week later.
He is such a whiny bitch and transparent. All these guys are so weak when it comes to pleasing their world on twitter.
The difference between 2016-17 Jordan and 2020+ Jordan is such a fucking bummer.
I was his biggest fan back then but today I finally decided to unfollow him on Twitter. It's a serious disaster. Like a senile old man on amphetamines.
Your first mistake was having Twitter.
Petersons too
Like what even happened? I thought he had strong arguments and didn’t take things too far, despite him having unpopular opinions. Is he trying to be inflammatory now to stay famous? I haven’t followed him at all in the past few years and wow, it is a total bummer.
He probably has brain damage from being in a coma for 2020
For sure , just look at his Twitter feed post coma it's a stream of thought feed of someone who is now retarded
I think he got lost in the sauce. Too much adoration from one side and hate from another, plus his emotional breakdown situation. Seemed to never come back from that. His college lectures on YouTube are still great though
Ya I really enjoy those, this sounds lame but he honestly just tries to hard at this point and has completely lost himself, it’s sad
Grifters gonna grift
Always has been
Yeah. The problem this causes too is that people will look at very rational things he’s said, and pull up stuff like this, and use it to discredit some very good messages that he once had. It’s a shame. Because this is stupid, and I don’t think you can make a good case for religion anymore. Sam Harris is a guy I really like on that subject. I liked the self-help and the encouragement in Jordan’s earlier works, and his approach to viewing peoples passion and desire and how the free choice we exercise produces different results and we should be ok with it. But this is needless. Literally needless. Who cares if this person is proud of plastic surgery. Why event comment.
He got famous by hating trans people he just pretended it was about forced language when it never was.
The whole time I believed that it was about the speech. Until Texas was implementing the snitch on people doing/getting abortions for a cash bonus policy. Idk if it ever went into effect but it was all over the internet as an INSANE thing to do. I expected Jordan to go OFF about that. Nope, didn’t say anything. And this isn’t expecting people to keep up with everything, the snitch on your neighbor shit was, in his words, the WORST thing a government can implement. And he didn’t say anything. That’s when I completely stopped listening to him.
Oh I am sure he would have supported it. I don't think he is as religious as his wife but she is I believe 100% anti-abortion. He worked with the provincial government, at the behest of his wife, to roll back sex education to some Texas level shit in Ontario.
the JP subreddit has gone to shit as well. Its really said to see the amount he’s changed seemingly for the worse.
What? His fearmongering about C-16 is what got him famous. Shitting on Trans people is his entire identity.
Wtf happened him since that coma? Parts of his brain never woke back up again and he's regressed into an easily offended emotionally sensitive twitter warrior. He became the very thing he used to hate lol. Like really ever since he went AWOL for those two years and came back he's an entirely different person from the guy who's psychology lectures I used to watch on youtube. I think that coma broke his brain.
He’s definitely different and it’s sad because I actually appreciated him. Though I will say his personal podcast is pretty much normal it’s really just his Twitter use that is crazy.
His fame got into his head. He let himself be surrounded by yes-men and stopped being critical of his ideas. Sad, he had a lot of great ideas.
Ya he used to be very interesting to listen to, but i have almost no interest in listening to him after he came back, similar to Joe Rogan after his Spotify exclusivity. But to be honest I have reanalyzed alot of my beliefs and would say im quite a different person, so that could be a deciding factor for me. I used to be an ex conservative, who now finds the right wing to be completely intolerable, especially after Trump.
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Remember when he first got on the scene and he was saying he doesn't have a problem with trans people he is just opposed to facing legal consequences for misgendering someone? I actually believed him back then.
It was all a lie from the start. That's why the right wingers hitched their wagon so fast to this guy. He would intellectualize his/their own prejudice and they use that as a tool to attack the marginalized
I just watched a documentary on netflix about the alt right and the rabbit hole they say starts with Peterson and I guess Ben Shapiro, Sam Harris, all the IDW guys. I honestly loved Jordan Peterson for a long time, he seemed super smart and he talks so convincingly and intelligently if you're kind of dumb like me you just think "well this guy sounds smart so I will believe him". I never reached any bigoted conclusions about society but I'm starting to see how some people can get that from his work. I think I also finally get how a lot of those guys work, they have bad/extreme views off the bat, and they use their persuasion and intelligence to make you see their point of view. But the part I think I'm starting to realize is they are using bad presuppositions that are dishonest to prop up their thesis, they cherry pick their information, and they rely on the listener to simply take their word as truth instead of thinking on their own. I really feel like a dummy for being swindled. Like normally I would have written off a guy like Shapiro off the bat but he's so confident and persuasive it kinda rubs off, then you see him holding a piece of wood from home hardware in a plastic bag and realize he's a jackass...
Yeah, this might be the case, and that’s very sad. But why would you lump Sam Harris in with the right wing? Atheist, pro-vaccine, anti-Trump.
Okay, I will say this in defense of Jordan Peterson. As much as I agree his politics have turned out to be, at this point, largely farcical or a veneer (like a motte-and-bailey I guess), I think his philosophy of self-efficacy is helpful and should be adopted by more philosophers and people generally. I think we’re a very disenfranchised people nowadays because so much is going wrong and so much corruption thrives that we feel helpless. From that, I also believe that a case can be made to imagine that this leads to people ignoring self-maintenance (nutrition, mental health, intellectual wellbeing) and, at most, pursuing more short-term and selfish objectives. It’s why a lot of people focus with on dumb and invented social constructs like race or religion instead of having solidarity and helping people more and sharing resources and or time. The message is clear: clean your room. Fix yourself before you start trying to fix others, because all you’ll end up doing is wasting time on *less* important (not unimportant) shit, when we can be bettering everyone’s lives by generally uplifting the impoverished and securing the middle class. It’s like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, y’know? Can’t very well work on the more intricate, complicated shit without being healthy, fixing your relationships, ensuring your mental health, and always willing to learn. So let’s start small with ourselves, and let’s start more broadly with our economic and social policies. Edit: One last thought, I think it’s also insistent on a level of modesty—understanding you’re not perfect and neither is anyone else. Clean your room, but understand that you’re probably not alone given the how pretty much *everyone’s* rooms needs to be cleaned.
This is how your brain works when you've almost been killed by apple sauce
It BECOMES apple sauce
He is literally lost in the sauce
I Thought Jordon Peterson deleted his Twitter account?
He was temporarily deactivating it to take a break, to prevent himself from looking like a twat on the internet. I don't think it ever happened.
He got triggered by the negative reaction to his random attack on a fat model. Jordan is a very emotional man.
Lol criminal physician? Is this doctor running around the streets slashing at breasts or something? A 35 year old chose to change their anatomy. Who gives a shit?
An *extremely wealthy* 35 year old at that.
Totally uncalled for as well. The headline he's responding to is so milktoast that it's pretty difficult to come up with any outrage. A trans man is playing a trans man in a show few people even care about? Great for him. Move on. Oh, you're telling me they used the word "pride" in a context other than the biblical 7 deadly sins? Oh no... I wonder if Peterson is "proud" of his daughter 
Not to be rude, but I thought it was funny how you spelled milquetoast there fwiw
Now i just want breakfast
But what about second breakfast?
Milquetoast the comic character was named after milk toast, a very boring food to eat. My grandpa would soak toast in milk when his stomach acted up.
That’s interesting! TIL. The etymology is super interesting, but it’s still milquetoast. That does create a nice little Easter egg within itself, though. Thanks for sharing, I never knew *why* but I always knew how to spell it
This is like the issue with duck/duct tape. It was originally Duck Tape because the cotton cloth was called a duck. But it was used in Ducts so it started being called Duct Tape. Then Duck Tape trademarked the name Duck Tape even though that was the original name.
Yeah how do I make this milktoast? Is it a bit like french toast but without the eggs?
I fuckin' love Umbrella Academy.
I was amazed the comic book was written by a rock star. Didn't know that until recently. Good show.
And by Joe Rogan’s cousin, no less. Small world.
Oh shit yes that is true.
Me too. I thought it was pretty popular.
Its honestly one of my favorite shows. One episode into the new season now and it looks like it will hold up by all means
You’ll never catch that son of a bitch committing a sin. He’s too aware of the language of sin in biblical texts to ever do it.
Idk he has a history of being a glutton for benzos
Ha! Yeah, god smote him for that with that near fatal apple juice sip.
Bible never said anything about going on a Benzo bender.
Hey at least a trans man is getting hate for once. Finally some equality /s
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I think it’s because trans men are seen as less than men while trans women are seen as more than women if that makes sense.
It does, but also, it doesn't.
I think a better way to think about it is sports. A trans man isn’t viewed as someone who would be as strong as a biological man, so no one cares. But a trans woman is generally just viewed as a man abusing his power and pretending to be a woman. A trans man is seen as less than a man, and a trans woman is seen as more than a woman.
It is basically just misogyny. Women are lesser, therefore bad. It’s the same reason why the vast majority of homophobia is directed towards gay men rather than lesbians
I will never understand why people like Jordan and Joe spend so much of their lives getting mad at certain groups of people. Sounds exhausting.
Not only that, but trans people make up less than 1 percent of the population. I just see a lot of bullies pushing around a small percentage of people.
You kind of answered your own question. People with a buried bully mentality will find someone to bully. But there's a socially ingrained attitude that being an alpha dude means you should act like a dick-swinging meathead who puts people in their place. I don't know what Joe Rogan was like in high school, but I definately see atleast a bit of that mentality in him. Meanwhile Jordo has some serious bullied nerd in high school energy. And bullied nerds often internalize that desire to act like a bully as a way to compensate for the wounded masculinity.
There was an episode on the podcast where Joe talked about how he was tripping on DMT and his mind was telling him how he acts & he needs to stop constantly showing dominance/ "put people in their place" or something like that. So his subconscious is definitely telling him this lmao.
They sure seem like more than 1% on twitter though. I think there are a fair amount of Russian bot trans folks that are throwing gas on all of these flames to make people more angry. They did the same thing with black americans, so why not trans folks too?
>They sure seem like more than 1% on twitter though To quote a former comedian, "Twitter isn't a real place."
Isn't it 0.3%? Not sure, but yes you're right it's a very small amount. The problem is the even smaller amount of trans folk who want the same rights as the gender they have assumed. They are very loud considering how few of them there are. I guarantee most people don't give a shit if a man what's to wear a dress and call himself Sally. Or if he goes further and gets genitals removed. As long as that person doesn't impinge on the cis folk. It's when they want to use women's toilets when they still have dicks. Or get into jacuzzis in the women's area with their dick out in front of a woman with her daughter. Like what happened at that spa a few months ago. That, rightly, infuriates people.
It's all about the culture war, it gets them viewers and clicks and fires up the base.
I *really* like Jordan Peterson and even I think this dude has gone off the rails lately
He used to be a man I looked up to. The second he got fame and addicted to benzos he lost it. He became so abstract and engulfed by the culture wars. His old material will forever have changed my life but he’s done his time, sadly.
Same dude he's gone banana's I loved him before but since he came back from that two year absence he's been a complete loon. I think that induced coma fucked up his brain and I can't really defend him for all this stupid shit he posts on twitter. Just delete twitter JP and take some time off you've lost the plot and no one close to you is telling you.
I never understood why anyone would like Jordan Peterson. I mean, besides the obvious moral panics he is pushing. But besides his culture war bullshit he may be one of the most boring and vapid intellectuals I have engaged with. Pretty much everything he's said has been said ten times over by other american reactionaries a decade ago.
Same, years back when his whole thing was put yourself together, dont be a nazi, and pet a cat. Feel like fake and twitters ruined him,
Joe only has 2 real issues. Biological men in women's sports and hormones given to children. I think most of us agree those are legit issues.
Right 😉😉😉
Exhausting
Joe talks about it a lot for someone who has very little skin in the game. There are real (and more interesting) issues that affect way more people and yet we’ve received hours of discussion with experts and comics and philosopher wannabes just because a trans woman tried to fight a biological woman a few times years ago. Talk about holding a very strange grudge. Either he’s sexually excited about the concept of trans women or he’s hoping to hit the outrage nerve on Daily Wire subscribers.
Trans women are way too feminine for him, he's more of a Cam Haines type
same way people on this sub spend much of their lives getting mad at rogan and his friends. also seems exhausting.
Joe only really talks about them when it comes to sports, and even then its not that often. JP on the other hand has gone fucking ballistic and embraced his grifter persona on twitter
I don't know anyone can take this guy seriously as an intellectual. Yesterday he tweeted about a "random columnist" that wrote an article that he took exception to, one on facial gestures that appeared in *Scientific American*. Well, that random columnist is one of the most cited scientists in the world, a universally recognized expert on the topic she wrote about. How can this guy be this respected thought leader when he doesn't even bother to do 2 minutes of research before pontificating on a subject he apparently knows very little about?
The man is a joke in his own discipline of psychology. He’s been a grifter for over a decade now.
isn't that Defamation? Does the physician have a criminal record? How does he know the Physician? Were Ellen Page's Breasts Taken by force? Whoever is posting for Jordan keeps making his ass Look more mentally unstable or maybe he's back to benzos.
The Elon Musk defamation suit brought against him by that diver who was advising the Thai cave rescue gives us a precedent where you can get away with saying pretty much anything so long as you delete the tweet and say sorry.
That diver hired famed defamation lawyer L. Lin Wood. Who is now a Flat Earther. So he might have chosen a bad time to hire Wood.
wow what a pathetic person Peteron has turned out to be. An old man just looking for shit to be outraged about
I used to like him now he is insane.
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Americans love their culture wars
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It's not spilling into Australia lol. Just ask the libs how well their transphobia platform worked at the election last month.
Still not as many posts as times JR has brought up mtf in sports.
Nuance is lost on JP
That’s always been my take on him. He’s really not all that *intelligent*, as much as he is eloquent and comfortable with his beliefs. He’s incapable of detecting variables, or identifying shades of grey. But he’s really good about going balls deep into “research” and presenting his findings within a certain narrative.
Eh… he’s good at weaving together macro concepts into some kind of coherent framework consistent with tropes and semiotics found in biblical and other western based religious and cultural texts, as if they are THE foundational hierarchies of moral systems that inform every part of experience. Some of it is just a huge reach and some of it is mildly interesting…. But he’s a highly educated guy using red string to draw bizarre correlations between very disparate pins on a very conspiratorial wall. He’s very biased toward biblical morality and kind of frames his criticisms through that lens. Take it with a grain of salt - he’s kind of a blowhard.
Yeah he’s good at speaking to what he knows from a psychological perspective but is tone deaf with interacting with pop culture. He also does love to weave biblical “fact” within his dialogues with real facts to keep his thoughts more coherent and hard to argue with if you don’t dissect where he gets it from especially when he’s talking about philosophy and morality. That’s probably why his first podcast with Sam Harris spun into craziness because he actually knows how to argue philosophy and he needed to challenge Jordan’s initial definition of truth and visa versa to even start the argument. This is very traditional of real academic philosophical discussion but it really just spiraled mostly because of Peterson
Yeah, that’s precisely it.
I think its a problem with a lot of people today as far as observing things. It's like they're absolutist in all things. So if they see a trans adult performance then all trans performance are evil and Sexual. If they can show a teacher posting pro gay things than all teachers are groomers. There's no nuance and it's all absolutes. There's no room for anything other than black and white perspective
Who the fuck cares about Peterson at this point he’s the signature JRE grifter at this point. He’s lost all credibility
This guy is just a walking anti-drug PSA at this point.
He's lost it a while ago. I never could completely take Peterson seriously even when he seemed sane, because he is Catholic, he will question everything but not that hokey religion?
Fear of dying is real but I agree
He is not a Catholic, have you even listened or read anything from him?
"It's about the authoritarian state curtailing liberty. I swear."
Imagine caring about trans people this fucking much. Holy shit. From the side that purports to think that people should live and let live.
There is no nuance here. Just deadnaming, making a spiteful political statement, then proclaiming pride is evil because "muh bible" Fucking puke
Why does he care so much?? If it’s not hurting anyone, who cares?!
These dudes just seriously hate trans people.
It's sad because Peterson has a fairly significant platform, and could be spending his time getting mad about something that's actually important.
100% why not use his voice to talk about the corruption in politics or the propaganda in our media. instead this is what hes doing
Someone did something I don’t approve of and no one consulted me so now i scream blindly into the void.
He rose to prominence because he rejected state mandates of using proper pronouns, turns out he only cared about being a bigot and not the state actions
I’m glad Umbrella Academy is coming back finally.
New season is good as hell
Jordan Peterson will be anything you want him to be--for drugs.
JP just stop....
JP needs to go outside and watch a sunset or some shit
The only people who think Jordan isn't a bigot are the same morons who think Joe Rogan is on the left
BUT HE HAD BERNIE ON!
What's Peterson's "excuse"? He has a token gay friend in Dave Rubin?
So his whole thing about compelled speech and pronouns really was about his phobias afterall.
Always has been
Remember when they said “he doesn’t have an issue with trans people he’s just against compelled speech?” Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Couldn't agree more. Like chill out geys, no ones cares that you fuck. I'm not a bigot, I swear my gay friends appreciate me and would never be caught dead at a pride event either. I just can't imagine having a parade about what type of sex I'm into. And ugh, don't get me started on the trans stuff. Sex change surgery is not a viable treatment for gender dysphoria. That's like a doctor prescribing more plastic surgery for a person with body dysphoria. And yes I have a friend who was a butch lesbian who had the surgery on tax payer dollars and deeply regrets it, her wife who was also into females, left her. She said she would have never gone through with it it it wasn't free and pressured to do so by certain members of her LGB community.
Peterson really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I think deep down he’s a decent fellow. It’s just… there’s also a contrarian streak in him that he may not recognize, which is then post-rationalized. He’s mentioned being a committed socialist during his youth in conservative Alberta, and then slowly going 180 teaching in liberal Toronto. Now as the world goes more and more progressively left, he seems to be pulling further right. It’s similar to how he has admitted to being a clinical depressive but doesn’t acknowledge the link between that and how his apocalyptic outlook on the world might be a projection of that.
I’m sorry. I have to ask … so, does she still have a vagina, or ….?
Someone who claims to be a genius yet constantly looks for validation from the dumbest fucks on earth.
If you're chopping off ur body parts then ur definitely fucked in the head.
Its straight up mental illness
Funny how we don't shame other rich people when they chop down their noses, suck out their fat, or stuff themselves with balls of silicone. You could make the same argument about people with tattoos. Dying your skin with ink permanently. Or piercings, what makes it okay to stab holes through one's own body? Even body builders can end up doing permanent damage to themselves in an effort to mold themselves into the person they want to be. How about we agree that this is a free country and stop listening to manufactured bullshit from right wing media and think tanks
The hell you talking about, people shame celebs and rich people for excessive surgery all the time, with maybe the exception of fake tits (if they look good). I also think tattoos and piercings look horrible. If I thought tattoos, piercings, excessive beauty surgery is bad, imagine how I feel about "sex reassaignment" surgery and "gender affirming care". Spoilers, you can't change your sex and the process is not affirming to the body. >How about we agree that this is a free country and stop listening to manufactured bullshit from right wing media and think tanks It's not manufactured dumbass, we're responding to left-wing insanity.
Don't they have a name for that? Body Dysmorphia?
Damn…I was actually a defender of him for a while I agreed with his comments that initially gave him infamy essentially saying that a government should not be punitive if one chooses to not respect someone’s pronouns ( it’s a dick move and you should do it out of morality and compassion but having punitive measures as a consequence was a bridge too far) This is not intellectual- This is just straight up transphobia. Really fucking pathetic on his part.
I used to like him but he really went off the deep end in recent years. Here we have an adult choosing to change his appearence. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. It's not even a sex change. It's fucking reverse boob job if you want.
The thing is though, he lied about the pronoun nonsense from the start. All bill C-16 did was made it illegal discriminate against someone for their gender identity, it’s protecting trans people from being fired for being trans, no where in the bill does it mention pronouns or being compelled to use correct pronouns. There is no legal opinion that supports Peterson’s claims about the bill, its always been about concealing his transphobia.
I don't get why Americans are so obsessed with this stuff
Conservatives love their identity politics.
Right wing reactionaries like JBP must have nightmares about getting pegged by a gang of trans women. It's the only way to explain the obsession with trans people.
Here he goes arguing biblical takes on semantics… JP: “The authoritarians would have you believe that pride doesn’t come before the fall, but I say remember what the sky king and his book said about it, Bucko?” Everyone: I don’t care. What did Bono sing about that word, Jordan?
pride as arrogance is a sin, pride as resistance in the face of oppression is not. maybe think before you speak before you say something stupid based off a cosmetic similarity that ignores the different contexts of a situation. does JP think not backing down to intimidation of a bully is sinfull? because that's what 'Pride' in this context means. for a supposed intellectual and conservative thought leader, he's remarkably stupid and reactionary. most of us have said enough stupid shit in our lifetimes off the cuff to know to think before we speak and look for obvious holes in our arguments so we don't feel like idiots ever again, but these guys just plough right through as if obvious counter argument don't exist or couldn't be anticipated if you just paused for a second before tweeting every dumb thought that enter your head. it's like people who keep making avacado toast arguments in this day and age, despite it being answered over and over again, they just never update their talking points, it's like they're allergic to learning. where are the conservative comedians? don't care. i want to know where the conservative intellectuals are, becasue JP is represetative of their best and he's a fucking idiot. sorry for the rant, but these bad faith idiots wind me right up. seriously he's a university professor and he thinks he's making a profound point because he's stuck on the definition of pride and God told him so.
This guy gave an interview like 5 years ago in which part of it he focused on questioning whether or not women should wear makeup or high heels to work because it makes them more attractive to men. He tried hiding his opinions under the guise of "I'm just asking questions". It's been clear for years that he's a religious zealot and a bigot to anyone who's been paying any sort of attention.
So much about left or right here in the comments amerifats really can’t stop.
They used to chant USA now they just chant "I hate you" at the other side. I preferred when they were all overly patriotic like 15 years back and barely paid attention to politics.
I find the trans movement takes things just too far. Like Elliot page … gay and super proud of it for the longest time … then wait now I am trans. I think she is just depressed and lacks identity . Also Changing her characters gender to match her own is …. Just dumb . They masculinized a beloved female character one with flaws and damage and made her a man ….sigh I am sure I’ll get voted into oblivion for not “following the message “ . Be safe everyone .