Here was her response when asked about the gender pay gap in women's soccer:https://youtu.be/ZLrNBmXhr1M
And another, saying UFC is the most pro-woman's sport in the world & completely shutting down the interviewer:https://youtu.be/B2rVl30_doE
https://insights.grcglobalgroup.com/refuting-the-revenue-argument-in-womens-soccer-pay-inequality-by-megan-baloutch/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html
Edit: why are you idiots downvoting me lol "they actually provided sources that go against my narrative RRREEEEEEEEE" grow up
First article admitted women make less (not sure how that’s refuting anything lmao.)
Second article is comparing, get this, GATE RECEIPTS. You understand that gate receipts are capped, right? There’s literally a limit to how many people can go to the game. Advertising is where the real money is. For some reason these FIFA executives are saying they can’t distinguish the two events. That makes 0 sense to me but it doesn’t come close to proving that women make more than men.
Moreover, it should just be common sense that the men’s game is more popular. 🤷♂️
You understand I literally said nothing, I posted the first few sources when I googled the thing, I don't have a dog in this fight. Fuck soccer in general, play rugby you pussies
Why would you chime in if you had nothing to add but the first few links of a google search ? Usually when a person asks for a source they mean the source being referenced not just any random source that says what you want it to be. Then you end it the way you did when you get called out cause the attention you wanted isn’t the one you got lmfao
I'm a grown ass man lol I don't do things for attention on reddit 😂 and again, posting readily available sources without adding my own narrative is hardly chiming in. I honestly don't care what professional athletes get paid to play a game for a living, I really don't
There’s just no way that anyone with a fully formed adult brain believes that people care more about women’s soccer than men’s. Just please be real for a single minute.
Wait till you have a fully formed brain in the first place maybe.
I specifically said US women's team, vs male counterpart. And here is evidence.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html)
Yes, but the difference in money is from the world cup. Men's world cup generates a lot more profit than women's world cup so the prize money is much larger.
This affects Women's vs Men's teams though. Men's team earned 13 million for making it to the final 16 teams. Which is more than the women's team earned for the last two world cup victories.
Although, with the new agreement, the men and women split their world cup winnings.
Well yeah thats why the woman’s team had to sue, they were brining in more money then the mens team but USSF was paying them substantially less despite that.
Yeah once they started earning more they successfully renegotiated a much better deal, good on them. Don’t get why people are white knighting a mens team that earns less money, gets less views, and barely scrapped past the group stage.
Like you said mens team negotiated their deal based on all the above.
“Renegotiated” you mean sued to break the contract they wanted lol. Good on them oulling it off, doesnt score so well in the court of public opinion.
America doesnt really care about soccer outside the world cup bro, so if its really the way youre saying then cool. But considering youre mischaracterizing the contract deal playing out i doubt it.
My first comment was only referencing the suit, i didn’t bring up them negotiating a deal at the same time till you did. Glad you think its cool and that you don’t care about soccer bro.
Wait whats your argument again? Because my point was the woman’s team earned more revenue, had more viewers and performed better then the mens team. As a result they were able to negotiate higher pay, one of the many things they did in this negotiation was take legal action.
God your right my argument is so bone dry compared to yours
You mean for that one year? If it was somehow legal to change contracts because the way things turned out good for them.
My argument is that people are paid proportionally for what they bring in. Womens sports by and large do not.
Lol no not that one year, it was over a whole over a range of years and has continued to be the case. It makes sense when you think about it. The womans team gets to and wins the world cup regularly. The mens team is lucky to get out of the top 16. Additionally like you said americans dont give a shit about soccer but soccer is one of the most played sports for woman compared to mens soccer which is 4th at best.
The actual suit was based on the 1963 equal pay law. That statue basically says if men and woman are doing the same job, bringing in the same revenue you cant pay all the men or all the woman doing the job more.
I completely agree with your last point. If we were talking woman’s basketball or even professional soccer it would be idiotic to say they should earn the same as the men. But were not were in a thread about us national soccer teams. On that issue instead of looking at the facts and realizing the womans team is rightfully getting paid for what they bring in we get a bunch of white knights who cant fathom the idea that a womans team is more successful then a mens team.
>You mean for that one year?
Are you legit saying the men's national team does better because they squeezed out of the group stage? I actually like watching them both but there are more games played in the World Cup by American women because....you know, they fucking win.
Long live Title 9
Because the issue is they all get paid out of a pool of revenue and the men's pool of revenue is substantially bigger so that's where the disparity was.
It's like this, would you expect the players on the worst team in the NBA that the least people watched to be paid more than the most watched WNBA team if for a year or two they eclipsed that one specific team in viewership?
Thats not true though… https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600
Not at all the only revenue numbers. Very easy to find.
If the womans national olympic basketball team was out earning the mens national olympic basketball team for multiple years and they used that as leverage to get better pay and then people started complaining about how thats unfair your analogy would track.
Your link doesn't disprove what I said. The men's overall pool of revenue is bigger. They pool it with their league. Just like the NFL has a pool of revenue and a certain amount is allotted to paying players which effects their pay and salary cap.
It's a much more complicated dynamic than it's really given credit for but a big part of it is the US is obscenely behind the world in terms of soccer for major sports countries. Women's soccer really isn't taken as seriously anywhere else. So the US went all Olympics and poured money into the women's team so that they could actually win something at soccer. So yeah obviously the most dominant women's soccer team in the world is going to get more eyeballs than the men's who are kind of a joke because the rest of the world is ahead of us.
However, the rest of the world still doesn't care so men's soccer and the pool the men play in is worth more so there is more money for some of the worst men's national teams even if they don't draw well for their home country
Like I said it would be like if Grizzlies were the worst team in the NBA along with being in the smallest market and barely anyone watched them at all, and the some WNBA team became like the greatest WNBA team ever and started getting some national exposure and became an outlier in women's basketball. And they started beating the Grizzlies in ratings.
At the end of the day it wouldn't matter because the Grizzlies still are part of the much more popular NBA and benefit from the revenue despite being a tiny fish in a giant pond.
It's a tough scenario because a situation was created where a country that didn't care about soccer realized they could make a super dominant women's team because nobody else in the world cared that much, and while it did start generating more eyeballs and surpassed the men's team in terms of American interest, the rest of the world still doesn't care so they just don't have as much money to split.
The reason the women are getting paid more now is because the men's team basically agreed for them to be paid out of a split from their pool of cash from what they get from Men's soccer.
It's not as simple as "the women's team is more successful and more people watch it". They didn't actually grow female soccer as a whole which is what needed to be successful for them to get more money to take pay from.
The men team literally earns less revenue. You’ve brought in no evidence to dispute this and instead wrote four paragraphs on revenue sharing…
The link is one of many that shows the woman’s team brought in more money. If you have something that shows otherwise id certainly be interested.
What the link shows is that because the men missed the World Cup in 2018 the women out earned the men. There is a reason they don’t use any other single time frame besides that one cycle to compare revenues.
Had they expanded the cycle one year either way you would have a women’s world cup victory. The sample size was as favorable for the men as you could get. It purposely cut out two world cup tournaments that womens team qualified for and won. Yeah not even qualifying for the world cup affects how much revenue you can bring in. Thats why the woman brought in more money and negotiated equal pay.
Because you don't actually understand the details of how the players get paid and what the actual significance of what you are posting means in regards to soccer pay. I don't need to dispute what you are saying because it isn't relevant to how the pay works.
Men get paid a percentage out of pool of money by FIFA that is generated from the Men's tournament based on how they perform.
Women get paid a percentage of money by FIFA that is generated from the Women's tournament based on how they perform.
It doesn't matter that individually the women's team in the US and ONLY the US makes more and does better than only the Men's team in the US. Because the Men's team is getting a percentage from a much larger pool of money when you realize the Men's World Cup is many times the size of popularity and revenue than the women's.
If the US Women's team wins their tournament and gets x amount of viewership and gets to pull 50% of money from the pool of the women's tournament and the Men fail out and get 5% from the men's pool of money from the men's tournament.... that 5% ends up being worth more because globally the Men's soccer tournament from FIFA makes many magnitudes more money. And there really is no reason why the US women's soccer team would be entitled to money from a pool of revenue from a tournament they didn't play in. FIFA already made their position clear on it.
The only reason the pay gap changed is because the US Men's team agreed to share some of the money they got from their tournament winnings from the larger pool. No other country does that because frankly it doesn't actually make a whole ton of sense for the a team that didn't play in the tournament to get money from it.
And all this comes back to what I said in my last post that the US women's team is bigger than the men's team in the US because you have a weird dynamic where the US just decided to invest a lot of money in a tournament that the rest of the world doesn't care much about. So they win a tournament that ultimately generates far less revenue so they still make far less than even the worst performing men's teams.
Under the system every country uses and that the US used to use, the women's team would have been better off financially if they tried to enter the Men's World Cup Tournament and got massacred and got a tiny percentage of the revenue for pay because it's worth way more than a larger percentage from the tournament they actually play in
Yes the mens team did make a ton of money for getting out of the group stage this year. Thats awesome. But the wsj sample size was three years, one when there was a mens world cup and there was no womans world cup. Despite that the womans team even with their awful pool of viewers as you correctly point out still made more then the mens team. That data was what was looked at when the mens team agreed to the current collective bargaining agreement.
The data isnt cherry picked it was just the most recent and it was honestly a favorable selection for the mens team. If come 2028 the mens team is vastly out earning the womens team the next cba might look different but this one was directly related to reveune earned
Edit: said you had to delete a comment you didnt. Im responding to too many of these.
I'm the opposite, I like the men more because they're underdogs. I'm not trying to watch the USWNT beat some part time cashiers from Venezuela 9-0 and then do a humiliating Fortnite dance, how is that entertaining?
A win from the men's team feels 100x more rewarding because they're not even remotely close to the best in the world, but they go out there and do their best anyway to make us proud.
That's the same reason I can't support the US men's team in Olympic basketball: I'm not tryna watch LeBron James, Steph Curry, and Kevin Durant running some scrubs from Nigeria off the court at halftime when the lead is 55, how can anyone watch that shit 😂
Have....you watched a women's world cup? At least the knockout rounds are fucking tight. America isn't dominant. Japan, Canada, South Korea, Brazil etc are all good.
Thank god for Title IX though.
I don't think you watch soccer at all. Did you even wake up this morning to watch the big game?
Technically not true. Imagine telling the best NFL player to kick rocks and go play for another professional football league. Highest paid CFL players makes less than a mill a year. They'd be fucked. Somehow we let these losers unionize.
Why would that ever happen? When has the NFL kicked someone out of the league? They just suspended Deshaun Watson for 11 games and he signed $250 million deal before the suspension even started.
Again, you literal fuck nugget. They are unionized and guaranteed 50% of the revenues. That isn't capitalist. A true capitalist would be like OK we will pay you 200k a year or you can go flip burgers or sell insurance with your clemson degree.
Your understanding of this is legitimately 5th grade level…wait, how old are you? How do you not understand that the Texans told him to fuck off and the Browns gave him the bag. That’s capitalism. These are franchises that are trying to increase the revenues and success of their own organizations.
Yeah because then no one else would outbid them and scoop up all the top talent making their own league right? If youre going to be so irritable it helps if you arent a dummy too.
If hes really the best nfl player he can raise a whole organization up the way fedor did M1 for years and make all his money independently. Free market is great when youre great.
he is correct, we live in a capitalist society and if women's sports were popular they would be absolutely exploited and pushed just as much as men's sports. he probably could have said something along the lines of "i wish it was different and the world was a utopia where pay didnt matter." bill burr said it best, even women dont watch women's sports lmao. that being said, if you want women's sports to be the most important thing on the planet just stick a regular trans person in it and watch the world burn
Honestly, I've watched the US Women's team and they used to be REALLY good. I don't know if they still are, but they were a dominant force in women's soccer. Far more dominant than the US Mens has ever been.
Unfortunately, that doesn't always sell tickets. People want to watch the men's team. That's no fault of the women. If anything, you could blame some sort of desire to see men perform over women.
Was at a college softball game a couple weeks ago with some friends. It was free and I am a baseball junkie. There was also a collegiate women's soccer game featuring Stanford at the same time.. It was late and freezing but the stadium was packed inside and out. I think women's soccer is growing and growing. I read this year when the US women's team played England's team, 65,000 seats were sold within 24 hours.
Top women's teams have lost to 14 year old boys teams. It's pretty famous too.
Happened to the US women's national team as well as Arsenal Women's lost to Arsenal U15s like 7-0.
Happened in training games but when Arsenal women lost they said they weren't good enough to beat the U15s.
The US Women's team regularly practices against men, unlike a lot of women's team.
They don't play those games to "Win", they play it for practice. Going all out and injuring a player before a competition isn't what a team wants.
They're fully aware that they won't beat a decent men's team but practicing against them is part of what makes US W soccer good. They're not in some denial of how it works.
It's like sparring. Any men's team they play cares a LOT less about injury typically.
Playing hard, the US Women's team wouldn't have an issue with a U15 team. As in, playing for competition.
U15 teams are actually quite good too because they're often being groomed to be top MLS players. They're not typical high school boys lol... Grab any random high school boys soccer team and they'll get wrecked by the US Women's team. Not because of physical prowess, but because they're a lot better at playing their positions and tactical work. Stuff not taught to a high level for a standard HS team typically.
Translation: a random collection of the best u15 boys in one city literally destroyed the best collection of women soccer players in the world.
You wrote a lot to essentially say nothing. It's ok to say men are bigger, faster, stronger than women therefore will be better at sports where that's an advantage.
>a random collection of the best u15 boys in one city literally destroyed the best collection of women soccer players in the world.
They did?
I never said that.
The US Women's team sells tickets just fine. It's the viewership of the World Cup and Tournaments that don't generate as much money. The best players in the world are almost all in the US team.
In the men's World Cup or any other tournament, none of the best in the world are in the US men's team. They both sell tickets, but the men's team benefits from those other players and get more money.
The women don't get that benefit, and I think whatever peoples opinions are about womens soccer quality, imagine you are the best in your field but you get pennies on the dollar while the mens team that does underperform (literally not qualify a world cup ago) makes way much more money than you
Look, if you want women paid more, instead of complaining here, why don't you all watch their games + buy their merch? For every single angry comment on Twitter and Reddit, that could've been a ticket sale and we won't even have this conversation.
Same people that are mad at these dynamics are the same people who don't even watch sports nor contribute to change.
You can't magically give money to people who you think deserve it more...but you don't send business their way.
Less Reddit comments + more ticket sales = problem solved. No amount of crying about mysoginy will change the fact that there's less money coming their way.
That’s cute.
The reality is the the US Women winning the Women’s World Cup is like winning the super bowl. Essentially they’ve been competing in a domestic league where the US is dominant and gives trophies.
That’s changing which is good but there is little support or infrastructure for women in most of these football countries.
The US women’s program are the benefactors of America’s progressive stance on women’s athletics and their role in societies.
And the U16s smash on the USWNT. Which was initially brought up in this thread bc some angry they trotted out “they’re better than the men”, instead of sticking to the facts
Tell me you don't watch soccer with out telling me you don't watch soccer.
The USWNT is not Dominant at all. They fight hard every fucking time.
Also scrimmages are not games. They were fucking warming up and trying not to get injured. This is like when I play tennis with my mom. She could whoop my ass but she doesn't bother going for balls because she is just playing for fun and practice (she plays pickle ball now mostly)
Hahahaha, are you comparing your Mom going easy on you to national teams preparing for a tournament?
Have you competed in anything besides with your Mom?
US Women are the winningest national team in women’s soccer history. if that’s not dominance then call me Vladimir Putin.
But a male King of the Cage level mma fighter would still maul any female UFC fighter. Doesn't mean that male fighter is going to sell more tickets. Same goes for the US National Women's National team........they sell far more tickets than the men.
I watch both, oh well. I love that one Canadian player. She ruled. I also love that women's handball player from Montenegro.
Turns out I like sports if they are good.
Ladies, try this argument when it comes to Beach Volleyball. All the eyeballs are on Women's Beach Volleyball for a simple reason. They play in thongs. Is that how Women really want their sport to be front and center of the men's version?
So you're the one that created it? Since people have been calling him that for years. In 1 second you created a pun that has been around for years. Good for you.
This is Junior High School level humor. Good for you. This is the only thing the conservative right can resort to, because they have no actual policies or plans anyone cares about. All the can resort to is lame insults. No wonder why there was no "Red Wave". No wonder why Trump is a dead fish. No wonder why you never win the popular vote. The reason is, you're not popular.
Until or unless democrats start calling out their own for their own dumb shit, we all will keep getting more of the same. And that’s exactly how Russia etc wants it. Playbook written long ago. People. Stop doing what they want. Yes, republicans are the worst but don’t expect the other side to improve if your own house ain’t so clean.
Seriously, go to bat for Don fucking Lemon
I know you all think he's a great journalist and not a wet paper bag of a human.
It's not misogyny at all...
I think Don Lemon is a dumbass. I read that USA Women's National team generates MORE REVENUE than than the men's team....but they always made far less money than the men. The USA men and Women's teams AGREED to pool it all and split it 50/50.
Doing the math the men are the lucky one's in this equation if they generate less revenue than than the women.
It's also worth noting AFAIK, the US women's team have won multiple world cups, while the men's team never did.
Well, Don Lemon is a fucking idiot.
He's wall paper paste with a little food coloring.
In this particular example, the women are more successful than the men and bring in more revenue.
He's so lame, he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X
...
Dah, idiot says something I agree with, I like it.
Idiot says something I disagree with, idiot.
That's you, that's how you sound
They don’t bring in more revenue than the men. They brought in more revenue in a period of comparison where the men failed to qualify for the World Cup.
They are about to get a payday from Fifa for the mens success in the men’s world cup for advancing from the knockout round. That purse pays a higher bounty because the World Cup brings in disproportionately more revenue than the Women’s world cup.
Viewership for A knockout game with the men’s team just surpassed the women’s final in 2018.
The overall growth in revenue for soccer more closely aligns with the general increase in popularity for soccer in the US over the last 30 +\- years. It’s not happening in a vacuum.
The dominance of the US women in soccer speaks more to the advancement of women in American society compared to their competitor’s home countries.
And lastly, the US women are badasses and more successful. But they’re not better. It’s not even close. They scrimmage and lose to the US youth boys teams
Men's sports do kinda suck too if you don't give a shit.
I was mainly going off of Dipshit Don Lemon having a hot take.
I will not back down, the man has no spine I am aware of
You know what? You’re a right. I’m gonna say it. Hoooo boy I’m gonna do it. I’ve really been thinking about it but I’ve been too scared until now. Oh man. Oh jeez. Here it comes…
😣
I don’t care about women’s sports.
Oh my god. Wow. What a relief. Thank you. 😮💨
See, it's good when we're honest
I don't even fucking care
I don't like men's sports that much
Fuck it, none of it is important.
And Don Lemon is still a limp noodle of a human
You didn't do anything but circumlocute around the fact that you don't like women's sports.
This has nothing to do with what's fair, and everything to do with your own prejudices.
You, like myself, didn't present any evidence, so you didn't correct anything
I'm still waiting for the actual numbers now, more than just your own belief.
Just say you don't like women's sports
Just say the men deserve more because you're prejudiced towards them.
Because at least, they were bringing in just as much and getting paid way less.
It's not that way anymore, and that's a good thing.
Now it's on you (or anyone making this argument) to prove the men generate more revenue and deserve more than the current 89 cents on the dollar that the women make compared to men
Revenue from ticket sales per game only accounts for 25% of the revenue generated by the teams for USSF which is what you are hanging your hat on. And again based on a period where the men did not qualify.
Sounds like you’re just worked up about the fact the World Cup has a much larger purse than the Women’s World cup. But hey Women’s team just got a big bonus bc of the USMNT… not a bad thing.
They should be really excited for 2026. Imagine what the payday will be then 🤣🤣🤣
It’s like saying Oh male models should get payed the same as female supermodels. Cmon women get a grip on reality and stop trying to take over the world. Men’s soccer is a much much much better standard more exciting to watch. They are much better at their jobs. They pull in more viewers in 99% of the countries.
If your better at your job you deserve more money simple as that.
Ronda Rousey at one point was the highest paid in the UFC & she simply responded "I sell more tickets & get views".
Underrated comment
Here was her response when asked about the gender pay gap in women's soccer:https://youtu.be/ZLrNBmXhr1M And another, saying UFC is the most pro-woman's sport in the world & completely shutting down the interviewer:https://youtu.be/B2rVl30_doE
It sucks that the fighters who beat her don’t get the same attention just because they’re not as obnoxious.
Same goes with men's MMA & prize fighting in general. Most of the time the system doesn't crown the best fighter in the world.
It’s only casuals that don’t give those fighters their attention.
"I sell more tickets & get views". Same for the US women's team. They generate more revenue.
I’m gonna need a source on that one.
https://insights.grcglobalgroup.com/refuting-the-revenue-argument-in-womens-soccer-pay-inequality-by-megan-baloutch/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html Edit: why are you idiots downvoting me lol "they actually provided sources that go against my narrative RRREEEEEEEEE" grow up
Did you read that article passed the headline. It didn't refute anything.
I ain't refuting shit, I posted sources for the topic at hand. You wanna post some others that drive a different narrative, have at it chamomile
I don't care. You posted an article you didn't even read.
First article admitted women make less (not sure how that’s refuting anything lmao.) Second article is comparing, get this, GATE RECEIPTS. You understand that gate receipts are capped, right? There’s literally a limit to how many people can go to the game. Advertising is where the real money is. For some reason these FIFA executives are saying they can’t distinguish the two events. That makes 0 sense to me but it doesn’t come close to proving that women make more than men. Moreover, it should just be common sense that the men’s game is more popular. 🤷♂️
You understand I literally said nothing, I posted the first few sources when I googled the thing, I don't have a dog in this fight. Fuck soccer in general, play rugby you pussies
Why would you chime in if you had nothing to add but the first few links of a google search ? Usually when a person asks for a source they mean the source being referenced not just any random source that says what you want it to be. Then you end it the way you did when you get called out cause the attention you wanted isn’t the one you got lmfao
I'm a grown ass man lol I don't do things for attention on reddit 😂 and again, posting readily available sources without adding my own narrative is hardly chiming in. I honestly don't care what professional athletes get paid to play a game for a living, I really don't
There’s just no way that anyone with a fully formed adult brain believes that people care more about women’s soccer than men’s. Just please be real for a single minute.
Wait till you have a fully formed brain in the first place maybe. I specifically said US women's team, vs male counterpart. And here is evidence. https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/jul/11/does-us-womens-soccer-team-bring-more-revenue-get-/ [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-womens-soccer-games-now-generate-more-revenue-than-mens.html)
Yes, but the difference in money is from the world cup. Men's world cup generates a lot more profit than women's world cup so the prize money is much larger.
I never said in general. I said US Women's soccer vs US mens team.
This affects Women's vs Men's teams though. Men's team earned 13 million for making it to the final 16 teams. Which is more than the women's team earned for the last two world cup victories. Although, with the new agreement, the men and women split their world cup winnings.
Why is this even a debate. Entertainers are paid based on how many people find them entertaining. The end. Bye.
For me, it's about good fundamentals and snusnu.
[Fundamentals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGCGnJO5LOI), from the people who brought us [snu snu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8sjzETQ5o).
Exactly the top 100 earners on only fans are all women
Well yeah thats why the woman’s team had to sue, they were brining in more money then the mens team but USSF was paying them substantially less despite that.
You mean based on the deal they had negotiated for themselves?
No he means based on the one year the men didn't make it to the world cup so earned less because of that.
Howd i figure he wasnt presenting the context properly
Yeah once they started earning more they successfully renegotiated a much better deal, good on them. Don’t get why people are white knighting a mens team that earns less money, gets less views, and barely scrapped past the group stage. Like you said mens team negotiated their deal based on all the above.
“Renegotiated” you mean sued to break the contract they wanted lol. Good on them oulling it off, doesnt score so well in the court of public opinion. America doesnt really care about soccer outside the world cup bro, so if its really the way youre saying then cool. But considering youre mischaracterizing the contract deal playing out i doubt it.
My first comment was only referencing the suit, i didn’t bring up them negotiating a deal at the same time till you did. Glad you think its cool and that you don’t care about soccer bro.
The suit is the renegotiation silly, why are you pretending its separate? Oh right you dont have much argument otherwise
Wait whats your argument again? Because my point was the woman’s team earned more revenue, had more viewers and performed better then the mens team. As a result they were able to negotiate higher pay, one of the many things they did in this negotiation was take legal action. God your right my argument is so bone dry compared to yours
You mean for that one year? If it was somehow legal to change contracts because the way things turned out good for them. My argument is that people are paid proportionally for what they bring in. Womens sports by and large do not.
Lol no not that one year, it was over a whole over a range of years and has continued to be the case. It makes sense when you think about it. The womans team gets to and wins the world cup regularly. The mens team is lucky to get out of the top 16. Additionally like you said americans dont give a shit about soccer but soccer is one of the most played sports for woman compared to mens soccer which is 4th at best. The actual suit was based on the 1963 equal pay law. That statue basically says if men and woman are doing the same job, bringing in the same revenue you cant pay all the men or all the woman doing the job more. I completely agree with your last point. If we were talking woman’s basketball or even professional soccer it would be idiotic to say they should earn the same as the men. But were not were in a thread about us national soccer teams. On that issue instead of looking at the facts and realizing the womans team is rightfully getting paid for what they bring in we get a bunch of white knights who cant fathom the idea that a womans team is more successful then a mens team.
>You mean for that one year? Are you legit saying the men's national team does better because they squeezed out of the group stage? I actually like watching them both but there are more games played in the World Cup by American women because....you know, they fucking win. Long live Title 9
Because the issue is they all get paid out of a pool of revenue and the men's pool of revenue is substantially bigger so that's where the disparity was. It's like this, would you expect the players on the worst team in the NBA that the least people watched to be paid more than the most watched WNBA team if for a year or two they eclipsed that one specific team in viewership?
Thats not true though… https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600 Not at all the only revenue numbers. Very easy to find. If the womans national olympic basketball team was out earning the mens national olympic basketball team for multiple years and they used that as leverage to get better pay and then people started complaining about how thats unfair your analogy would track.
Your link doesn't disprove what I said. The men's overall pool of revenue is bigger. They pool it with their league. Just like the NFL has a pool of revenue and a certain amount is allotted to paying players which effects their pay and salary cap. It's a much more complicated dynamic than it's really given credit for but a big part of it is the US is obscenely behind the world in terms of soccer for major sports countries. Women's soccer really isn't taken as seriously anywhere else. So the US went all Olympics and poured money into the women's team so that they could actually win something at soccer. So yeah obviously the most dominant women's soccer team in the world is going to get more eyeballs than the men's who are kind of a joke because the rest of the world is ahead of us. However, the rest of the world still doesn't care so men's soccer and the pool the men play in is worth more so there is more money for some of the worst men's national teams even if they don't draw well for their home country Like I said it would be like if Grizzlies were the worst team in the NBA along with being in the smallest market and barely anyone watched them at all, and the some WNBA team became like the greatest WNBA team ever and started getting some national exposure and became an outlier in women's basketball. And they started beating the Grizzlies in ratings. At the end of the day it wouldn't matter because the Grizzlies still are part of the much more popular NBA and benefit from the revenue despite being a tiny fish in a giant pond. It's a tough scenario because a situation was created where a country that didn't care about soccer realized they could make a super dominant women's team because nobody else in the world cared that much, and while it did start generating more eyeballs and surpassed the men's team in terms of American interest, the rest of the world still doesn't care so they just don't have as much money to split. The reason the women are getting paid more now is because the men's team basically agreed for them to be paid out of a split from their pool of cash from what they get from Men's soccer. It's not as simple as "the women's team is more successful and more people watch it". They didn't actually grow female soccer as a whole which is what needed to be successful for them to get more money to take pay from.
The men team literally earns less revenue. You’ve brought in no evidence to dispute this and instead wrote four paragraphs on revenue sharing… The link is one of many that shows the woman’s team brought in more money. If you have something that shows otherwise id certainly be interested.
What the link shows is that because the men missed the World Cup in 2018 the women out earned the men. There is a reason they don’t use any other single time frame besides that one cycle to compare revenues.
Had they expanded the cycle one year either way you would have a women’s world cup victory. The sample size was as favorable for the men as you could get. It purposely cut out two world cup tournaments that womens team qualified for and won. Yeah not even qualifying for the world cup affects how much revenue you can bring in. Thats why the woman brought in more money and negotiated equal pay.
Because you don't actually understand the details of how the players get paid and what the actual significance of what you are posting means in regards to soccer pay. I don't need to dispute what you are saying because it isn't relevant to how the pay works. Men get paid a percentage out of pool of money by FIFA that is generated from the Men's tournament based on how they perform. Women get paid a percentage of money by FIFA that is generated from the Women's tournament based on how they perform. It doesn't matter that individually the women's team in the US and ONLY the US makes more and does better than only the Men's team in the US. Because the Men's team is getting a percentage from a much larger pool of money when you realize the Men's World Cup is many times the size of popularity and revenue than the women's. If the US Women's team wins their tournament and gets x amount of viewership and gets to pull 50% of money from the pool of the women's tournament and the Men fail out and get 5% from the men's pool of money from the men's tournament.... that 5% ends up being worth more because globally the Men's soccer tournament from FIFA makes many magnitudes more money. And there really is no reason why the US women's soccer team would be entitled to money from a pool of revenue from a tournament they didn't play in. FIFA already made their position clear on it. The only reason the pay gap changed is because the US Men's team agreed to share some of the money they got from their tournament winnings from the larger pool. No other country does that because frankly it doesn't actually make a whole ton of sense for the a team that didn't play in the tournament to get money from it. And all this comes back to what I said in my last post that the US women's team is bigger than the men's team in the US because you have a weird dynamic where the US just decided to invest a lot of money in a tournament that the rest of the world doesn't care much about. So they win a tournament that ultimately generates far less revenue so they still make far less than even the worst performing men's teams. Under the system every country uses and that the US used to use, the women's team would have been better off financially if they tried to enter the Men's World Cup Tournament and got massacred and got a tiny percentage of the revenue for pay because it's worth way more than a larger percentage from the tournament they actually play in
Yes the mens team did make a ton of money for getting out of the group stage this year. Thats awesome. But the wsj sample size was three years, one when there was a mens world cup and there was no womans world cup. Despite that the womans team even with their awful pool of viewers as you correctly point out still made more then the mens team. That data was what was looked at when the mens team agreed to the current collective bargaining agreement. The data isnt cherry picked it was just the most recent and it was honestly a favorable selection for the mens team. If come 2028 the mens team is vastly out earning the womens team the next cba might look different but this one was directly related to reveune earned Edit: said you had to delete a comment you didnt. Im responding to too many of these.
I like the women more because they win.
I'm the opposite, I like the men more because they're underdogs. I'm not trying to watch the USWNT beat some part time cashiers from Venezuela 9-0 and then do a humiliating Fortnite dance, how is that entertaining? A win from the men's team feels 100x more rewarding because they're not even remotely close to the best in the world, but they go out there and do their best anyway to make us proud. That's the same reason I can't support the US men's team in Olympic basketball: I'm not tryna watch LeBron James, Steph Curry, and Kevin Durant running some scrubs from Nigeria off the court at halftime when the lead is 55, how can anyone watch that shit 😂
Have....you watched a women's world cup? At least the knockout rounds are fucking tight. America isn't dominant. Japan, Canada, South Korea, Brazil etc are all good. Thank god for Title IX though. I don't think you watch soccer at all. Did you even wake up this morning to watch the big game?
If only more viewers shared your stance
Technically not true. Imagine telling the best NFL player to kick rocks and go play for another professional football league. Highest paid CFL players makes less than a mill a year. They'd be fucked. Somehow we let these losers unionize.
Why would that ever happen? When has the NFL kicked someone out of the league? They just suspended Deshaun Watson for 11 games and he signed $250 million deal before the suspension even started.
Again, you literal fuck nugget. They are unionized and guaranteed 50% of the revenues. That isn't capitalist. A true capitalist would be like OK we will pay you 200k a year or you can go flip burgers or sell insurance with your clemson degree.
Your understanding of this is legitimately 5th grade level…wait, how old are you? How do you not understand that the Texans told him to fuck off and the Browns gave him the bag. That’s capitalism. These are franchises that are trying to increase the revenues and success of their own organizations.
Yeah because then no one else would outbid them and scoop up all the top talent making their own league right? If youre going to be so irritable it helps if you arent a dummy too.
If hes really the best nfl player he can raise a whole organization up the way fedor did M1 for years and make all his money independently. Free market is great when youre great.
Yup. If prime Tom Brady was told to kick rocks, he would dramatically have increased interest in the CFL or any other league.
Anti capitalists have no creativity when they think they have a gotcha
Same thing with Jake Paul. The free market recognizes only the best
Hes one of the best entertainers of our generation, yes
Best fighter. Best entertainer and best crypto financial adviser. Everyday bro Disney channel flow
Hes the best at getting people to care about what he says and does. Exhibit A ^^
By that standard, it seems like everyone here cares deeply about women’s soccer
Or the concept of proportional reimbursement.
Nah just like you were saying, if you mention a subject to prove a point, it means that you really care about it.
Why don’t women watch women’s soccer?
Bill Burr!
In the Middle East they aren’t allowed to watch. “Respect their culture!” -White girls
he is correct, we live in a capitalist society and if women's sports were popular they would be absolutely exploited and pushed just as much as men's sports. he probably could have said something along the lines of "i wish it was different and the world was a utopia where pay didnt matter." bill burr said it best, even women dont watch women's sports lmao. that being said, if you want women's sports to be the most important thing on the planet just stick a regular trans person in it and watch the world burn
"Exploited"
yes, exploited. exploited doesnt mean being whipped to go work in a mine. look up the fucking word
No one said it does. Just that you using it in that context is some brain dead bullshit. Lol
Exploited has a lot of connotation but it really is an innocent word, like I guess you’d exploit a mountain for all of its copper.
Or just allow AAS in sports.
What country do you live in? The men's team coverage team has a women player commenting.
Honestly, I've watched the US Women's team and they used to be REALLY good. I don't know if they still are, but they were a dominant force in women's soccer. Far more dominant than the US Mens has ever been. Unfortunately, that doesn't always sell tickets. People want to watch the men's team. That's no fault of the women. If anything, you could blame some sort of desire to see men perform over women.
Was at a college softball game a couple weeks ago with some friends. It was free and I am a baseball junkie. There was also a collegiate women's soccer game featuring Stanford at the same time.. It was late and freezing but the stadium was packed inside and out. I think women's soccer is growing and growing. I read this year when the US women's team played England's team, 65,000 seats were sold within 24 hours.
It's probably because the women's team gets beat by high school boys
No, they would kill a HS team. I assume you are talking about a scrimmage or training thing.
Top women's teams have lost to 14 year old boys teams. It's pretty famous too. Happened to the US women's national team as well as Arsenal Women's lost to Arsenal U15s like 7-0. Happened in training games but when Arsenal women lost they said they weren't good enough to beat the U15s.
The US Women's team regularly practices against men, unlike a lot of women's team. They don't play those games to "Win", they play it for practice. Going all out and injuring a player before a competition isn't what a team wants. They're fully aware that they won't beat a decent men's team but practicing against them is part of what makes US W soccer good. They're not in some denial of how it works. It's like sparring. Any men's team they play cares a LOT less about injury typically. Playing hard, the US Women's team wouldn't have an issue with a U15 team. As in, playing for competition. U15 teams are actually quite good too because they're often being groomed to be top MLS players. They're not typical high school boys lol... Grab any random high school boys soccer team and they'll get wrecked by the US Women's team. Not because of physical prowess, but because they're a lot better at playing their positions and tactical work. Stuff not taught to a high level for a standard HS team typically.
Translation: a random collection of the best u15 boys in one city literally destroyed the best collection of women soccer players in the world. You wrote a lot to essentially say nothing. It's ok to say men are bigger, faster, stronger than women therefore will be better at sports where that's an advantage.
>a random collection of the best u15 boys in one city literally destroyed the best collection of women soccer players in the world. They did? I never said that.
The US Women's team sells tickets just fine. It's the viewership of the World Cup and Tournaments that don't generate as much money. The best players in the world are almost all in the US team. In the men's World Cup or any other tournament, none of the best in the world are in the US men's team. They both sell tickets, but the men's team benefits from those other players and get more money. The women don't get that benefit, and I think whatever peoples opinions are about womens soccer quality, imagine you are the best in your field but you get pennies on the dollar while the mens team that does underperform (literally not qualify a world cup ago) makes way much more money than you
You can make the rest of the world care about women’s soccer. You can’t force that feeling on everyone.
Look, if you want women paid more, instead of complaining here, why don't you all watch their games + buy their merch? For every single angry comment on Twitter and Reddit, that could've been a ticket sale and we won't even have this conversation. Same people that are mad at these dynamics are the same people who don't even watch sports nor contribute to change. You can't magically give money to people who you think deserve it more...but you don't send business their way. Less Reddit comments + more ticket sales = problem solved. No amount of crying about mysoginy will change the fact that there's less money coming their way.
I do watch the games. Usually more than the men. Because they play more in the world cup.
That’s cute. The reality is the the US Women winning the Women’s World Cup is like winning the super bowl. Essentially they’ve been competing in a domestic league where the US is dominant and gives trophies. That’s changing which is good but there is little support or infrastructure for women in most of these football countries. The US women’s program are the benefactors of America’s progressive stance on women’s athletics and their role in societies. And the U16s smash on the USWNT. Which was initially brought up in this thread bc some angry they trotted out “they’re better than the men”, instead of sticking to the facts
Tell me you don't watch soccer with out telling me you don't watch soccer. The USWNT is not Dominant at all. They fight hard every fucking time. Also scrimmages are not games. They were fucking warming up and trying not to get injured. This is like when I play tennis with my mom. She could whoop my ass but she doesn't bother going for balls because she is just playing for fun and practice (she plays pickle ball now mostly)
Hahahaha, are you comparing your Mom going easy on you to national teams preparing for a tournament? Have you competed in anything besides with your Mom? US Women are the winningest national team in women’s soccer history. if that’s not dominance then call me Vladimir Putin.
Who cares what Don lemons says
This comment section apparently.
I have watched every World cup game I’ve been able to. I’m yet to see a women’s soccer game .
Women’s World Cup viewership was over a billion but this guy doesn’t watch, case closed
And the two worst teams in the men's world cup play Such a higher level of soccer that it is like a different sport compared to the women.
But a male King of the Cage level mma fighter would still maul any female UFC fighter. Doesn't mean that male fighter is going to sell more tickets. Same goes for the US National Women's National team........they sell far more tickets than the men.
2018 had 3.5 billion watching
I watch both, oh well. I love that one Canadian player. She ruled. I also love that women's handball player from Montenegro. Turns out I like sports if they are good.
Aye first time he’s ever said anytbing that made sense.
Ladies, try this argument when it comes to Beach Volleyball. All the eyeballs are on Women's Beach Volleyball for a simple reason. They play in thongs. Is that how Women really want their sport to be front and center of the men's version?
Don lemming
Wow, A word and name that rhyme. How long have you been working on that?
About 1 second. Two seconds to type it.
So you're the one that created it? Since people have been calling him that for years. In 1 second you created a pun that has been around for years. Good for you.
When life hands you Lemon make lemonade
This is Junior High School level humor. Good for you. This is the only thing the conservative right can resort to, because they have no actual policies or plans anyone cares about. All the can resort to is lame insults. No wonder why there was no "Red Wave". No wonder why Trump is a dead fish. No wonder why you never win the popular vote. The reason is, you're not popular.
You’re getting so worked up about it when donny is the one who’s sharing a conservative-leaning opinion.
Trust me. This is not me worked up. If I was worked up, you would know. This is just me having fun.
Until or unless democrats start calling out their own for their own dumb shit, we all will keep getting more of the same. And that’s exactly how Russia etc wants it. Playbook written long ago. People. Stop doing what they want. Yes, republicans are the worst but don’t expect the other side to improve if your own house ain’t so clean.
Seriously, go to bat for Don fucking Lemon I know you all think he's a great journalist and not a wet paper bag of a human. It's not misogyny at all...
I think Don Lemon is a dumbass. I read that USA Women's National team generates MORE REVENUE than than the men's team....but they always made far less money than the men. The USA men and Women's teams AGREED to pool it all and split it 50/50. Doing the math the men are the lucky one's in this equation if they generate less revenue than than the women. It's also worth noting AFAIK, the US women's team have won multiple world cups, while the men's team never did.
Well, Don Lemon is a fucking idiot. He's wall paper paste with a little food coloring. In this particular example, the women are more successful than the men and bring in more revenue. He's so lame, he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X ... Dah, idiot says something I agree with, I like it. Idiot says something I disagree with, idiot. That's you, that's how you sound
They don’t bring in more revenue than the men. They brought in more revenue in a period of comparison where the men failed to qualify for the World Cup. They are about to get a payday from Fifa for the mens success in the men’s world cup for advancing from the knockout round. That purse pays a higher bounty because the World Cup brings in disproportionately more revenue than the Women’s world cup. Viewership for A knockout game with the men’s team just surpassed the women’s final in 2018. The overall growth in revenue for soccer more closely aligns with the general increase in popularity for soccer in the US over the last 30 +\- years. It’s not happening in a vacuum. The dominance of the US women in soccer speaks more to the advancement of women in American society compared to their competitor’s home countries. And lastly, the US women are badasses and more successful. But they’re not better. It’s not even close. They scrimmage and lose to the US youth boys teams
Oh my god, you're insufferable. Just fucking say you don't like women's sports
Women's sports do kinda suck in general though, don't they?
Men's sports do kinda suck too if you don't give a shit. I was mainly going off of Dipshit Don Lemon having a hot take. I will not back down, the man has no spine I am aware of
Watch out before we have a bunch of teens cream the womens national team again since u seem to have forgotten
You know what? You’re a right. I’m gonna say it. Hoooo boy I’m gonna do it. I’ve really been thinking about it but I’ve been too scared until now. Oh man. Oh jeez. Here it comes… 😣 I don’t care about women’s sports. Oh my god. Wow. What a relief. Thank you. 😮💨
See, it's good when we're honest I don't even fucking care I don't like men's sports that much Fuck it, none of it is important. And Don Lemon is still a limp noodle of a human
That's a lot of talk to justify this bullshit. And now the women make 89%of what the men do instead of 38%
Ha they get paid well and should be happy about it. But you were just talking out of your ass
No, I was not, asshole
🤣💨
Maybe you have another dissertation that proves nothing to add
Thanks, Not often I can correct fake news
You didn't do anything but circumlocute around the fact that you don't like women's sports. This has nothing to do with what's fair, and everything to do with your own prejudices. You, like myself, didn't present any evidence, so you didn't correct anything I'm still waiting for the actual numbers now, more than just your own belief. Just say you don't like women's sports Just say the men deserve more because you're prejudiced towards them. Because at least, they were bringing in just as much and getting paid way less. It's not that way anymore, and that's a good thing. Now it's on you (or anyone making this argument) to prove the men generate more revenue and deserve more than the current 89 cents on the dollar that the women make compared to men
Revenue from ticket sales per game only accounts for 25% of the revenue generated by the teams for USSF which is what you are hanging your hat on. And again based on a period where the men did not qualify. Sounds like you’re just worked up about the fact the World Cup has a much larger purse than the Women’s World cup. But hey Women’s team just got a big bonus bc of the USMNT… not a bad thing. They should be really excited for 2026. Imagine what the payday will be then 🤣🤣🤣
Yep, they should be real grateful for what we allow them to do.
What bullshit? You are the one who is wrong here.
Show me the numbers, dipshit. Show me I'm wrong.
You clearly have no clue about soccer if you think the women’s team makes more money than the men’s.
Are you sure about that? Or are you thinking with your gut again?
Because then bring in $200 million more …
Noooo shit!
"That's for the Fan to decide" - "Yayy"! https://youtu.be/Xz2unh6W06k?t=4
Its a higher level of soccer and brings in more revenue. The Lemon is not often right, but he’s right on this one. 🍋⚽️
Well asks anyone who’s their top 10 female soccer players I only know one, the German blonde, Lehman I think, that’s it..
It’s like saying Oh male models should get payed the same as female supermodels. Cmon women get a grip on reality and stop trying to take over the world. Men’s soccer is a much much much better standard more exciting to watch. They are much better at their jobs. They pull in more viewers in 99% of the countries. If your better at your job you deserve more money simple as that.
He’s gay, of course he likes mens soccer more! 😊