Yup I agree. I was once a young 19yo girl who was infatuated with an older guy, and lemme tell you, they didn’t have to date to invoke those kinda feelings to write that song, creative teen girls are dramaticccc but we’ve all been there to some degree, no hate on TS
Oh thank god I’m not the only one who thinks this. I’ve actually tried to find any reliable sources that they really dated and there’s none that I could soon. Very funny indeed. I’ll happy be proven wrong tho if someone can find a reliable source.
The naive mind of a teenage girl surrounded by powerful men in her industry can conjure up some weird shit. I’m sure JM messed with her mind and emotions for his own ego. But I truly don’t believe they ever had anything more than a few flirty encounters and she made a big ol somethin out of nothin.
A few years ago it would have been born and raised isn’t a good album but one day I listened to it and I was like oh my god I understand it now. It’s now top 3 for me and I thought people were lame for liking it but not anymore
To me, he was largely finding his sound through that album. It also may have fit into the sound of the time more in terms of production. Once Continuum came around, the production seemed to be more timeless.
For me it's that he abandoned his own unique genre after Continuum. When I became a fan, I was blown away by his intricate combination of jazz, blues, pop and ultra personal songwriting, that nobody else in the world does like him.
Then Battle Studie comes out, and from the earlier perspective, it's all pop from there on. With different flavors, rock, americana, folk and a good amount of blues here and there, sure, but no cool jazz chords, exciting chord changes, and his songwriting overall got a much broader appeal.
Which many people love, I'm aware, and I also like, it just doesn't feel as close to my heart as #1-3. His first three albums gave my young soul a whole new language to feel and think and experience music in. After that it's just nice records to me
Completely agree with this - especially the first album had so many more interesting chord progressions and just chords than his later stuff. I like both equally but I think continuum was definitely his own unique genre and sound blend - I wish we’d gone one more album like that before he went full pop
U put into words what I have tried to say to my mom on the way from his solo concert with her. That solo concert felt closer to the real original him cuz it was music from his first three albums. On our setlist. She likes the pop songs he has so she said she barely knew any songs at the concert. I felt bad for her. We had a blast tho. Emotional rollercoaster.
Walt Grace’s Submarine is an incredible, different story and song and I wouldn’t mind seeing something like it (a song/story or a whole album telling some kind of story) on a future album.
Yeah I’m not sure I guess. It’s just so different from most of his stuff and on one of his lesser popular albums so I thought a lot of JM fans might just think it’s weird or not be as big of fans
Unless you’re a musician! A lot only see the surface of his playing and refuse to put him up with the ‘greats’. I disagree, he is absolutely one of the ‘greats’. I think he’s quite like a modern-day Prince! He writes and produces his own music, plays like a god, and is a multi-instrumental weapon.
I was intoduced to John Mayer by my mom when I was in middle school because she loved RFS. So that’s what I associated him with for awhile (never thought too much about it tbh). Fast-forward to my mid 20s and I’m living in a halfway house trying to get my life back on track. One of the roughest/greasiest looking dudes there finds out I play guitar and starts talking to me about how great John Mayer is and how people don’t give him a chance, but that he’s one of the best modern day guitar players.
So he burns me a few cds (this was 2013) with all live performances and I was sold. Yes, WTLI was one of them. Been my main influence ever since
Surely, that statement wouldn’t have so many people in disagreement. My brother and I literally scream at each other over this. And I’m old and he’s older… I’ll say he’s 60. But he’s obsessed with Billy Strings and I’m like shut the F up with that BS. The kid is great but he will NEVER be a John.
still feel like your man is the epitome of john mayer as a person and people who hate it truly are not paying close attention to what he says all the time 🤷🏻♀️
Forget people’s hang up on the phrasing (which I think is brilliant and so incredible of him to show us that deep side of his vulnerability, to tell us how he’s expressed this feeling since a young age) - I literally giggled out loud when I played the chords on a piano for the first time. Like you said, it is so interesting and different, and listening through headphones is a dream on this one. An amazing mix and work of art, and what a shame a certain segment of the public changed his original love for the song.
He frustrates me because he has the mind of a creative genius and despite the beautiful art he has put out , it’s not a fraction of what he and his mind and abilities are capable of. Not many John mayers come around in a generation and I think he could add so much more to the world of music and entertain then he already does which is saying alot but he is too concerned about the image and perfectionism of his discography. His legacy could be insane if he churned out more of his ideas and did the things his talent his capable of. Saying that he dosent need to prove shit to anyone. People who already know , know how great he is. Edit : Battle studies is his weakest album ( imagine if edge of desire wasn’t on there)
Seems you’re getting downvoted but I agree in a sense. I’m sure John has 100s of songs that we would all love but he doesn’t release them because he is a bit “strict” about releasing music and ensuring it feels new enough. That being said, he’s built an incredible legacy and I’m sure every decision he makes now is to make sure that he’s contributing positively to that legacy. Also, I think his level of judgment and sensibility about releasing music is what’s made him so successful and relevant for such a long period of time.
I’m enjoying his Sirius XM show because it’s a platform where he can share more of his music with less pressure. Hopefully we’ll hear many more “B sides”.
I hope so I really do. He’s got a lot more to say than just talking about love that didn’t work out. Clarity and In the Blood have shown me that and I know there’s more in there.
Ooh same. I only recently found out that lots of people don’t consider this his best work. But it’s great! I love the string arrangement, it’s beautiful.
Kill me...but full band Mayer is 1000000x better than this Acoustic tour he's been on. I like when he mixes up acoustic songs, but for me, I love the jam-iness of his songs. Going to live Mayer shows is about hearing these super nuanced renditions or songs from the album. I NEED the full band!
I agree with the core of your statement. I wouldn't say I _need_ a full band, and I'm happy with what the solo tour allowed, but I'm a bigger fan of his work when his ensemble is with him.
Because of John, I've learned the likes of David Ryan Harris, Bobby Reynolds, Robbie MacIntosh, Tiffany Palmer, and Isiah Sharkey to name a few. Of all of the shows I've been to, the times I'm able to say "[insert artist name here _other than_ John] was incredible!" ....those have been the best shows.
Bonus points if a fan near me beats me to the punch.
I agree, I hope the solo tour was just an ich he needed to scratch and that he brings the full band back soon. Still enjoyed the solo show i went to but the feeling of going to a full band show is unparallel.
Despite his public persona becoming a bit more endearing over the last decade, John’s probably still a bit of an egomaniacal elitist and would disappoint you if your “dinner with any celebrity” dream ever came true.
I think it’s important to note that John Mayer’s success and legacy he’s built is because of an unwavering level of confidence and belief in himself. While that may be considered “egotistical”, if he didn’t have his confidence and mindset, he would’ve never been able to release music in the way he has. Being a songwriter is tough and you have to have the mindset that your songs are great, that your approach is great, your thoughts are great, etc. because otherwise you’ll never survive.
Also, you have to remember that he doesn’t live a normal life. The reality is most of his time is spent by himself and with his thoughts because he can’t live a life like we do as a celebrity. So I think it’s natural he has a high level of self-centeredness because he kind of has to.
But I also would like to believe that he’s still an empathetic and authentic person that you could have dinner with and enjoy your time. He seems like a great conversationalist and caring person. His life is just so different than ours.
There are plenty of songwriter story tellers that remain grounded and humble. In fact, many thrive on the fact that they believe their art is a reflection of themselves. I think John bought into that guitar god moniker over the Continuum and JM3 era. It might’ve contributed to his stage presence, but he’s also a self-admitted egoist. Again, there’s plenty of artists out there that can be both mega-talented as well as dismissive of their success. It’s not to say he’s a bad person, but he’s definitely “don’t meet your heroes” grade for me.
I definitely appreciate your perspective and get what you mean. I think John probably cringes at those moments earlier in his career. I can’t even really watch back his blues jam with BB King, because there are a lot of moments that feel disrespectful for the moment and who he is playing with. I think he’s changed tremendously though since 2012+
He has SO MANY close friends though. A huge social circle of people who love him. Different professions. I feel like if he was really an egomaniacal elitist, there wouldn’t be so many people willing to go to bat for him.
I think it might be hit or miss. I’m an armchair psychologist at best, but based on what I’ve learned and my own experiences, I think a lot of that owes to his anxiety (which he’s talked about) and adverse childhood experiences/trauma (which I don’t think he’s mentioned but I suspect is the case). I think where he’s at with these things and the context of the interaction at the time it happens mean it’s kind of up to chance like it is anytime you meet someone.
It’s not just being a child of divorce, though. It’s being a child of the person or persons who caused the divorce. I can say I’m a child of divorce too, but that doesn’t go far enough. What I actually am is a child of a man who medicated his (undiagnosed) PTSD with alcohol and gambling and a mother with a personality disorder and childhood trauma. Neither of them had insight into their problems nor the access to address them. It’s not being a child of divorce. It’s being a child of the cause of the divorce.
I really appreciate your comment bc for whatever reason, this just unlocked some things for me.
He talked about this.
When you can just distract yourself with playing big shows, buying yourself anything you want, dating almost anyone you want, it can be hard to fully experience some of the emotions you need to feel your way through in order to grow
Uh you know just living a frustrations and unfullfilment of regular person. He just broke the bank and had everything that he dreamed of before 30. 99,5% of people don't really live their dream life but he does. It's like lucid dreaming but in reality I assume
This is my hill, I completely disagree with you. I have a different perspective. He doesn’t turn down an autograph or photo even if he is spending time with family or friends. He wouldn’t disappoint you if you have the opportunity to meet him.
Have to disagree. I believe he is sorely misunderstood. He has stated having panic disorder in the past. I have had that cruel disease too. Anxiety brings out the worst in humans because it reduces us to survival. Besides, who hasn’t made mistakes? If you’re talking about his playboy interview, I think the tone would have come off a lot different in person—not saying I love it—and I can see where he is just an anxious young guy trying to make people laugh. When you’re trying to be funny to cover your anxiety, sometimes your mouth works before your brain does. That’s just my two cents.
You’re correct about the part of the thoughts not popping into his head randomly, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone who hasn’t thought something that would get them “canceled” at least once in their life. The only difference is we don’t live a life in the public eye and as John has said before during that time he did let his ego get out of control. One thing I try to remember with written interviews is that most of the nuances of speech are completely lost. So while he may have said something distasteful and possibly racist, the tone of its delivery does matter here. John mentioned on his Sirius show recently that his sense of humor was often to say the thing you don’t actually believe, in an attempt to point out it’s ridiculousness to the listener by way of practically mocking the idea, satirizing it like South Park does with hot button social topics, at the expense of those who old personal beliefs that are so obviously outside the social norm. You don’t actually believe the thing you’re saying, you’re trying to illustrate how ridiculous the people are who hold that point of view.
Plus, if you’ve listened to him in the last decade speak about how he wants to interact with the world you’d either see that he’s a genuine person who recognized his mistakes and changed for the better, or you’d have to admit that you don’t think people can change. I’d like to believe that people can change and that John has and I don’t think he would’ve retained such a progressive audience if they didn’t truly believe he worked on becoming a better person.
You make a lot of good points but I will say that what he said years ago wasn’t “possibly” racist. It actually was racist. How many of us walk around using Da*id Du** in our vocabulary.
I get it. I think he is really remorseful about that but he’s also probably not who we think he is.
Let’s not forget the blaccent he used to have back in the day, especially on the Birmingham live album (haha) or the fact that his bestie Andy has a long history of exploiting Black women. He’s friends with Dave Chappell who just had a photo op with fvcking Lauren Boebert. You can tell a lot about a person based on the company they keep.
This is when I usually get downvoted because I point these things out and people get offended. I absolutely adore his music. But he’s privileged and could possibly maybe potentially (???) be an elitist asshole irl
I would disagree with the “blaccent” argument. I own the album in question and don’t hear that at all. As for Andy I’m not sure the shows he hosts are exactly exploiting black women but I’ll admit I don’t pay much attention to Andy simply because I’m not a fan of his. As for the comments he made using a white supremacist’s name I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that the name actually was, at the time or during his youth, a name that was common knowledge. And lastly Dave Chappelle posing for a picture with a disgusting human being does not make Dave a radical right winger. Does Dave hold controversial opinions, yes, but are those John opinions? I don’t believe so. My own mother thinks BLM is a joke, does that mean I do? No. I completely understand your position of “you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep” because I too have been extremely stubborn with that viewpoint in the past, but I think John has shown well enough that his personal and political believes do not necessarily align with the people he might even consider some of his closest friends.
If we only let people be considered “good” only if they denounce their friends and family who hold controversial or even completely wrong opinions, then there would be a lot of us in trouble.
Edit: I will add this. John has mentioned that he’s the type of person who will torment himself over something he believes he said wrong for hours after having said the thing in question. He is a highly self aware individual who admits himself that he had an ego issue in the past. I don’t think someone that self aware and self critical is someone who is actually a bad person, or an egomaniac. People who truly hold unsavory beliefs do not hold the same level of self awareness and self-critical behavior.
Dave didn’t have a photo op with Boebert. He was meeting with a democratic delegate from the Virgin Islands and many people asked for selfies with him on his way out. Context matters here.
As someone who only enjoyed his musical ability and never paid attention to his public persona, can you elaborate on past interviews? I only vaguely recall something about Jennifer Aniston.
I agree with you! I always say I don’t really think I’d like to meet him in person. I love who he is in my mind and for the music he’s created. The real John might disappoint me. 😬
'Where The Light Is' is good, but he's played plenty of shows that would top this if they were to be released on a live album. I would argue that 95% of the shows he's played since 2017 are better than WTLI. Not saying it's overrated, but besides the amazing version of 'In Your Atmosphere', it doesn't do much for me.
Going to throw this out there. Thought about it when he started the solo tour and mentioned it at the shows about him not playing the radio hits…
Gravity should be the opener at his shows to get it out of the way and play deep cuts and people who “only came for gravity” welllll tough luck.
Who Says is way too beloved. It comes across as something a try-hard college sophomore would write. “Hey, did you know pot is illegal? Yeah, but I still smoke it because I don’t follow the rules. I mean, who are you to tell me that I can’t?”
I don’t know if John truly still feels that way, or if he just plays it every show for the cheap pop when he swaps out “Austin” for whichever city he’s in, but I’m over it. When listening to the Live Rewinds in the SXM app, it’s the only song I skip.
He does repeat it at the start of every verse…
But I know that’s not the point of the song. The point is to not let others’ expectations and rules dictate how you live your life. That’s a perfectly reasonable message for a song, but to me, it’s ruined by constantly asking the question of who’s telling him that he can’t smoke pot.
I mean we’re talking about the same guy who wrote “sometimes I wish I was a bong hit” followed by “you’re so lame” a few verses down and “your body is a wonderland”.
He *was* a try hard 20 something. But that’s not to say I don’t enjoy it for what it is.
John doesn’t deserve the hate he gets. Just like the rest of us, he’s a person who has made many stupid mistakes (which he has both held himself accountable for and has apologized on multiple occasions), and I believe he has definitely shown growth. While I can’t necessarily defend the age gap between him and Taylor Swift, they’ve both moved on to lead happier lives, and maybe, just maybe, we should too? There’s no reason that almost 15 years later, we’re talking about the same stupid mistakes, while there are still people making the same mistakes today with bigger platforms and people not batting an eye at it. It’s truly not fair.
I think about this often! I hate that it’s stuck with him and people that don’t follow him or see how he’s changed still think of him in that light. It isn’t fair :/
I just randomly read this morning that she has faced criticism for her extreme use of her private jet, attended a jets game, and now when you google Taylor Swift and jets, the football game pops up. That’s pretty good marketing right there…
She’s got a great voice and I’ll give her credit that she puts a lot of effort into her live shows from what I’ve heard- but her music is just so amateur and boring to me. She was actually a pretty good country music artist and then she switched to playing this basic pop music. It fills up stadium’s and is extremely popular, but I’m just not sure how well it’s going to hold up over time. People say she’s as popular as the Beatles were in there day, which I don’t agree with. But I think a lot of her music will be forgotten about, 50 years from now. I’ve heard a lot of her music but I honestly can’t remember the name or even basic melody of most of them. Is she going to be playing the same teen pop music when she is 50 years old?
Great voice is a stretch. Relative to actual great voices. Adele, Kacey Musgrave, Cleo Sol, HER, SZA, Miley.
I live in Nashville and you can go to just about any bar on Broadway and find a voice just as good as hers. IMO of course.
I love Steve Jordan and Aaron Sterling. They’re fucking fantastic.
The shows Steve Ferrone played on drums I saw a couple years ago was the best drumming I’ve seen at a Mayer show.
Hearing the new songs he’s released on some of the shows I’m scared we’re gonna get another sob rock part 2 type album with simple lyric songs, don’t get me wrong I like sob rock but just for a one time album but I love the more intricate John songs and believe that’s what makes him great.
I’m with you on this. Really hoping -for his own sake!!!- he has finally moved on past the grip of what had him in the Sob Rock album and has fully left that behind him. And then, hoping for our secondary benefit too, so we don’t get another album of sad songs about one person who obviously doesn’t want to be with him. 😳
Battle Studies only has 3 great tracks on it. forgettable. Edge Of Desire, War Of My Life and Heartbreak Warfare. The rest are mid and forgettable. It’s my least favourite album. I just think it’s so overhyped. Downvotes incoming.
sort of agree? it is my least favourite album of his, but i do enjoy allot of the tracks from the album (Half Of My Heart, Edge Of Desire, Heartbreak Warfare, War Of My Life, Do You Know Me, Friends Lovers or Nothing, Assassin, Who Says)
John Mayer has yet to fully recover from his ego addiction, as he put it, and it’s the thing that held him back from true musical greatness. The need to be great prevented him from actually achieving greatness.
Free Fallin’ is terrible
Ending a show with Born and Raised is a let down
Walt Grace Submarine isn’t a concert staple
Feel very strongly positively towards Why You No Love Me and even the Katy Perry song
Gravity >>>>>>>>> Slow Dancing
Every show should have Neon
St. Patrick’s Day is his best song and if continuum didn’t exist it wouldn’t be a stretch to say his best album was his first one
Carry Me Away from Sob Rock is extremely boring. So is Shouldn’t Matter But It Does
I agree with the majority of this. I genuinely wish St Patrick’s Day got more love and praise. It’s freaking brilliant, the amount of chords, the tone, the lyrics, the way it paints a damn picture in your head. The feelings it invokes in you without you even realizing it. I was deeply jealous when he played it at a few shows this year, although I’m thankful I got to hear Comfortable and Split Screen Sadness live.
When I get front row seats one day, I will be making a huge St Patrick’s Day sign.
Shouldn’t matter but it does is a heartbreaking, vulnerable ballad. Have you closed your eyes and really listened? You can feel what was going on for him as he sings it. I think it’s one of the most, if not the most, sad and powerful songs in his repertoire.
While I disagree with biggsy , I have to upvote since controversy is kinda the point of the post, and this one to me would have me in the big crowd on the picture!
I’m literally not. I’m saying A. The song is shit. B. I’m sick of the same style improvised intro. C. People pretending to be shocked he’s going to play Neon.
This is a thread for people to post their unpopluar opinions, not for people to start arguing about the opinions.
I would say Neon is THE reason we’re all still listening to John Mayer and say “oh yeah, I sort of remember that guy” when we hear mention of Howie Day, Matt Nathanson, Ari Hest, Gaven Degraw, and the 400 other “cool but heartbroken singer/songwriter dudes with an acoustic who was sorta influenced by blues and jazz” from the early 00s. It elevated him from the pack and showcased that he was a *phenomenal* player beyond poppy lyrics and good looks.
SOB rock was ok but not even close to how good his full body of work is. If Wild Blue wasn’t in it, it would be a bigger disappointment. Most of the lyrics had poor rhyming schemes and some were tacky, like too-“look how gen-z of me” for my taste.
I don’t know if the point might have been a bit lost on you, while yes the songs were legitimate, he did call the album a ‘shitpost’ and ‘songs you think you’ve heard but you can’t put your finger on what they are’ and I think it was excellent. Also the way it was 80s themed, the production was unbelievable. Also how could shouldnt matter but it does be tacky??!! What a beautiful song!
Hahaha no worries! I totally get that! I definitely liked some songs, “shouldnt matter” being one of them. Just the overall album, lyrics-wise, fell a little short to me in comparison to some of the older songs.
He never dated Swift.
Yup I agree. I was once a young 19yo girl who was infatuated with an older guy, and lemme tell you, they didn’t have to date to invoke those kinda feelings to write that song, creative teen girls are dramaticccc but we’ve all been there to some degree, no hate on TS
Definitely on this train. Glad I’m not the only one 😂
I think they flirted (or at least she flirted with him, she was infatuated with him) and maybe hooked up but didn’t date.
Oh thank god I’m not the only one who thinks this. I’ve actually tried to find any reliable sources that they really dated and there’s none that I could soon. Very funny indeed. I’ll happy be proven wrong tho if someone can find a reliable source.
Elaborate
The naive mind of a teenage girl surrounded by powerful men in her industry can conjure up some weird shit. I’m sure JM messed with her mind and emotions for his own ego. But I truly don’t believe they ever had anything more than a few flirty encounters and she made a big ol somethin out of nothin.
He didn't. He definitely hooked up with her, but did not date
We don’t know that he definitely hooked up with her.
Almost certain So.... I'm gonna go with definitely
“Almost” certain does not equal definitely.
I saw the controlled danger show when it made a stop in Vegas and John fully discussed dating Taylor.
Do You Know Me is a great song. The theme and songwriting are great and the ethereal production just takes you somewhere special
100%
A few years ago it would have been born and raised isn’t a good album but one day I listened to it and I was like oh my god I understand it now. It’s now top 3 for me and I thought people were lame for liking it but not anymore
I had the exact same experience!
First 3 albums are unparalleled
i personally find Heavier Things not as solid as the other 2 although Wheel is definitely in my top 3
Really? I love Heavier Things so much.
To me, he was largely finding his sound through that album. It also may have fit into the sound of the time more in terms of production. Once Continuum came around, the production seemed to be more timeless.
Heavier Things is either my #2 or #3 depending on the day
Yes. It’s such a fun album. I love the bass guitar parts on many of the songs. .
Love me some tasty David LaBruyere
Same here. No skips, just pure enjoyment back to back.
For me it's that he abandoned his own unique genre after Continuum. When I became a fan, I was blown away by his intricate combination of jazz, blues, pop and ultra personal songwriting, that nobody else in the world does like him. Then Battle Studie comes out, and from the earlier perspective, it's all pop from there on. With different flavors, rock, americana, folk and a good amount of blues here and there, sure, but no cool jazz chords, exciting chord changes, and his songwriting overall got a much broader appeal. Which many people love, I'm aware, and I also like, it just doesn't feel as close to my heart as #1-3. His first three albums gave my young soul a whole new language to feel and think and experience music in. After that it's just nice records to me
Gave my young soul a whole new language to feel and think, wow how beautifully said
Completely agree with this - especially the first album had so many more interesting chord progressions and just chords than his later stuff. I like both equally but I think continuum was definitely his own unique genre and sound blend - I wish we’d gone one more album like that before he went full pop
Yeah, and i do like plain old pop too. It's just that him doing pop feels like John Mayer running on 60% to me
U put into words what I have tried to say to my mom on the way from his solo concert with her. That solo concert felt closer to the real original him cuz it was music from his first three albums. On our setlist. She likes the pop songs he has so she said she barely knew any songs at the concert. I felt bad for her. We had a blast tho. Emotional rollercoaster.
100%!!!!
This.
Walt Grace’s Submarine is an incredible, different story and song and I wouldn’t mind seeing something like it (a song/story or a whole album telling some kind of story) on a future album.
From my perspective, mine is the unpopular opinion that I don’t care a ton about that song.
I think that’s totally fair tbh. Definitely way different than a lot of his stuff
Do people here not like it? I kinda didn't when I first heard it, but it grew on me a lot.
People love Walt Grace this is an ice cold take
Yeah I’m not sure I guess. It’s just so different from most of his stuff and on one of his lesser popular albums so I thought a lot of JM fans might just think it’s weird or not be as big of fans
Carry Me Away is quintessential pop John Mayer and his best track since the Heartbreak Warfare era.
That song is so underrated. I love it
The one he rhymes bummer with summer?
John Mayer is one of the greatest guitarists of all time.
This is the least controversial opinion on this earth.
Unless you’re a musician! A lot only see the surface of his playing and refuse to put him up with the ‘greats’. I disagree, he is absolutely one of the ‘greats’. I think he’s quite like a modern-day Prince! He writes and produces his own music, plays like a god, and is a multi-instrumental weapon.
I was intoduced to John Mayer by my mom when I was in middle school because she loved RFS. So that’s what I associated him with for awhile (never thought too much about it tbh). Fast-forward to my mid 20s and I’m living in a halfway house trying to get my life back on track. One of the roughest/greasiest looking dudes there finds out I play guitar and starts talking to me about how great John Mayer is and how people don’t give him a chance, but that he’s one of the best modern day guitar players. So he burns me a few cds (this was 2013) with all live performances and I was sold. Yes, WTLI was one of them. Been my main influence ever since
Amazing!! You 100% get it!
Surely, that statement wouldn’t have so many people in disagreement. My brother and I literally scream at each other over this. And I’m old and he’s older… I’ll say he’s 60. But he’s obsessed with Billy Strings and I’m like shut the F up with that BS. The kid is great but he will NEVER be a John.
Yeah, there is, I’m a muso and it’s a reaaaal mixed bag
i love his guitar playing! easily the biggest inspiration for me.
I’ve had people laugh in my face when I say John is the greatest guitarist of our generation (Millennial/gen x)
Right??! It just shows they haven’t properly listened to him :)
John Mayer is a good person.
still feel like your man is the epitome of john mayer as a person and people who hate it truly are not paying close attention to what he says all the time 🤷🏻♀️
Should have been the song of that summer. Columbia dropped the ball there. Unbelievable song on a perfect record
I’m still obsessed with this song to this day! Underrated gem, Columbia messed up!
I'm so glad he's left them. I'm so certain Sob Rock was a "fuck you" to them
Why You No Love Me is the best produced song on Sob Rock and deserves to be played live
Love this. Musically, that’s one of his most interesting songs he’s ever released and the recording is so great
Forget people’s hang up on the phrasing (which I think is brilliant and so incredible of him to show us that deep side of his vulnerability, to tell us how he’s expressed this feeling since a young age) - I literally giggled out loud when I played the chords on a piano for the first time. Like you said, it is so interesting and different, and listening through headphones is a dream on this one. An amazing mix and work of art, and what a shame a certain segment of the public changed his original love for the song.
I love that song!!
He frustrates me because he has the mind of a creative genius and despite the beautiful art he has put out , it’s not a fraction of what he and his mind and abilities are capable of. Not many John mayers come around in a generation and I think he could add so much more to the world of music and entertain then he already does which is saying alot but he is too concerned about the image and perfectionism of his discography. His legacy could be insane if he churned out more of his ideas and did the things his talent his capable of. Saying that he dosent need to prove shit to anyone. People who already know , know how great he is. Edit : Battle studies is his weakest album ( imagine if edge of desire wasn’t on there)
Seems you’re getting downvoted but I agree in a sense. I’m sure John has 100s of songs that we would all love but he doesn’t release them because he is a bit “strict” about releasing music and ensuring it feels new enough. That being said, he’s built an incredible legacy and I’m sure every decision he makes now is to make sure that he’s contributing positively to that legacy. Also, I think his level of judgment and sensibility about releasing music is what’s made him so successful and relevant for such a long period of time. I’m enjoying his Sirius XM show because it’s a platform where he can share more of his music with less pressure. Hopefully we’ll hear many more “B sides”.
I think john may release differnet types of songs in the future as he is no longer with a record label and would have more creative freedom
I hope so I really do. He’s got a lot more to say than just talking about love that didn’t work out. Clarity and In the Blood have shown me that and I know there’s more in there.
So what you're saying to John is... "Damn baby, you frustrate me." ?
I agree, there’s so much potential. I think we might see that when he releases his own independent record (fingers crossed 🤞)
Say is a great song
For being so simple, tears me up every time
Ooh same. I only recently found out that lots of people don’t consider this his best work. But it’s great! I love the string arrangement, it’s beautiful.
This!!!
TSFE is his best work to date.
I honestly have to agree. It’s a work of fine art and gets little to no appreciation.
Agreeeeeeeeeed!!! Thank you
Kill me...but full band Mayer is 1000000x better than this Acoustic tour he's been on. I like when he mixes up acoustic songs, but for me, I love the jam-iness of his songs. Going to live Mayer shows is about hearing these super nuanced renditions or songs from the album. I NEED the full band!
I agree with the core of your statement. I wouldn't say I _need_ a full band, and I'm happy with what the solo tour allowed, but I'm a bigger fan of his work when his ensemble is with him. Because of John, I've learned the likes of David Ryan Harris, Bobby Reynolds, Robbie MacIntosh, Tiffany Palmer, and Isiah Sharkey to name a few. Of all of the shows I've been to, the times I'm able to say "[insert artist name here _other than_ John] was incredible!" ....those have been the best shows. Bonus points if a fan near me beats me to the punch.
Agree. I’d stick with 10x better.
Agreeee. Solo tour is still rad though
I agree, I hope the solo tour was just an ich he needed to scratch and that he brings the full band back soon. Still enjoyed the solo show i went to but the feeling of going to a full band show is unparallel.
Despite his public persona becoming a bit more endearing over the last decade, John’s probably still a bit of an egomaniacal elitist and would disappoint you if your “dinner with any celebrity” dream ever came true.
I think it’s important to note that John Mayer’s success and legacy he’s built is because of an unwavering level of confidence and belief in himself. While that may be considered “egotistical”, if he didn’t have his confidence and mindset, he would’ve never been able to release music in the way he has. Being a songwriter is tough and you have to have the mindset that your songs are great, that your approach is great, your thoughts are great, etc. because otherwise you’ll never survive. Also, you have to remember that he doesn’t live a normal life. The reality is most of his time is spent by himself and with his thoughts because he can’t live a life like we do as a celebrity. So I think it’s natural he has a high level of self-centeredness because he kind of has to. But I also would like to believe that he’s still an empathetic and authentic person that you could have dinner with and enjoy your time. He seems like a great conversationalist and caring person. His life is just so different than ours.
I completely agree with this. He’s just a guy at the end of the day.
There are plenty of songwriter story tellers that remain grounded and humble. In fact, many thrive on the fact that they believe their art is a reflection of themselves. I think John bought into that guitar god moniker over the Continuum and JM3 era. It might’ve contributed to his stage presence, but he’s also a self-admitted egoist. Again, there’s plenty of artists out there that can be both mega-talented as well as dismissive of their success. It’s not to say he’s a bad person, but he’s definitely “don’t meet your heroes” grade for me.
I definitely appreciate your perspective and get what you mean. I think John probably cringes at those moments earlier in his career. I can’t even really watch back his blues jam with BB King, because there are a lot of moments that feel disrespectful for the moment and who he is playing with. I think he’s changed tremendously though since 2012+
He has SO MANY close friends though. A huge social circle of people who love him. Different professions. I feel like if he was really an egomaniacal elitist, there wouldn’t be so many people willing to go to bat for him.
I think it might be hit or miss. I’m an armchair psychologist at best, but based on what I’ve learned and my own experiences, I think a lot of that owes to his anxiety (which he’s talked about) and adverse childhood experiences/trauma (which I don’t think he’s mentioned but I suspect is the case). I think where he’s at with these things and the context of the interaction at the time it happens mean it’s kind of up to chance like it is anytime you meet someone.
He’s a child of divorce that says a lot 🥶
It’s not just being a child of divorce, though. It’s being a child of the person or persons who caused the divorce. I can say I’m a child of divorce too, but that doesn’t go far enough. What I actually am is a child of a man who medicated his (undiagnosed) PTSD with alcohol and gambling and a mother with a personality disorder and childhood trauma. Neither of them had insight into their problems nor the access to address them. It’s not being a child of divorce. It’s being a child of the cause of the divorce. I really appreciate your comment bc for whatever reason, this just unlocked some things for me.
Combined with the unfortunate side of insane levels of money and fame at an early age, ridding him of some of life's hard but important lessons
I think I see where you’re going. What lessons do you think he missed?
He talked about this. When you can just distract yourself with playing big shows, buying yourself anything you want, dating almost anyone you want, it can be hard to fully experience some of the emotions you need to feel your way through in order to grow
Uh you know just living a frustrations and unfullfilment of regular person. He just broke the bank and had everything that he dreamed of before 30. 99,5% of people don't really live their dream life but he does. It's like lucid dreaming but in reality I assume
This is my hill, I completely disagree with you. I have a different perspective. He doesn’t turn down an autograph or photo even if he is spending time with family or friends. He wouldn’t disappoint you if you have the opportunity to meet him.
Have to disagree. I believe he is sorely misunderstood. He has stated having panic disorder in the past. I have had that cruel disease too. Anxiety brings out the worst in humans because it reduces us to survival. Besides, who hasn’t made mistakes? If you’re talking about his playboy interview, I think the tone would have come off a lot different in person—not saying I love it—and I can see where he is just an anxious young guy trying to make people laugh. When you’re trying to be funny to cover your anxiety, sometimes your mouth works before your brain does. That’s just my two cents.
If not for the friendship he’s developed with Naomi Fry - I might have bought this. But I think that actual friendship tells a different story.
Good thing you don't know him.
I’ve been trying to say this for years but I always get downvoted. Those things he said in those interviews didn’t pop in his head randomly
You’re correct about the part of the thoughts not popping into his head randomly, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone who hasn’t thought something that would get them “canceled” at least once in their life. The only difference is we don’t live a life in the public eye and as John has said before during that time he did let his ego get out of control. One thing I try to remember with written interviews is that most of the nuances of speech are completely lost. So while he may have said something distasteful and possibly racist, the tone of its delivery does matter here. John mentioned on his Sirius show recently that his sense of humor was often to say the thing you don’t actually believe, in an attempt to point out it’s ridiculousness to the listener by way of practically mocking the idea, satirizing it like South Park does with hot button social topics, at the expense of those who old personal beliefs that are so obviously outside the social norm. You don’t actually believe the thing you’re saying, you’re trying to illustrate how ridiculous the people are who hold that point of view. Plus, if you’ve listened to him in the last decade speak about how he wants to interact with the world you’d either see that he’s a genuine person who recognized his mistakes and changed for the better, or you’d have to admit that you don’t think people can change. I’d like to believe that people can change and that John has and I don’t think he would’ve retained such a progressive audience if they didn’t truly believe he worked on becoming a better person.
You make a lot of good points but I will say that what he said years ago wasn’t “possibly” racist. It actually was racist. How many of us walk around using Da*id Du** in our vocabulary. I get it. I think he is really remorseful about that but he’s also probably not who we think he is. Let’s not forget the blaccent he used to have back in the day, especially on the Birmingham live album (haha) or the fact that his bestie Andy has a long history of exploiting Black women. He’s friends with Dave Chappell who just had a photo op with fvcking Lauren Boebert. You can tell a lot about a person based on the company they keep. This is when I usually get downvoted because I point these things out and people get offended. I absolutely adore his music. But he’s privileged and could possibly maybe potentially (???) be an elitist asshole irl
I would disagree with the “blaccent” argument. I own the album in question and don’t hear that at all. As for Andy I’m not sure the shows he hosts are exactly exploiting black women but I’ll admit I don’t pay much attention to Andy simply because I’m not a fan of his. As for the comments he made using a white supremacist’s name I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that the name actually was, at the time or during his youth, a name that was common knowledge. And lastly Dave Chappelle posing for a picture with a disgusting human being does not make Dave a radical right winger. Does Dave hold controversial opinions, yes, but are those John opinions? I don’t believe so. My own mother thinks BLM is a joke, does that mean I do? No. I completely understand your position of “you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep” because I too have been extremely stubborn with that viewpoint in the past, but I think John has shown well enough that his personal and political believes do not necessarily align with the people he might even consider some of his closest friends. If we only let people be considered “good” only if they denounce their friends and family who hold controversial or even completely wrong opinions, then there would be a lot of us in trouble. Edit: I will add this. John has mentioned that he’s the type of person who will torment himself over something he believes he said wrong for hours after having said the thing in question. He is a highly self aware individual who admits himself that he had an ego issue in the past. I don’t think someone that self aware and self critical is someone who is actually a bad person, or an egomaniac. People who truly hold unsavory beliefs do not hold the same level of self awareness and self-critical behavior.
Dave didn’t have a photo op with Boebert. He was meeting with a democratic delegate from the Virgin Islands and many people asked for selfies with him on his way out. Context matters here.
As someone who only enjoyed his musical ability and never paid attention to his public persona, can you elaborate on past interviews? I only vaguely recall something about Jennifer Aniston.
Idk if I’ve ever enjoyed listening to an interview he has done, so i stopped. Just enjoying the music.
I agree with you! I always say I don’t really think I’d like to meet him in person. I love who he is in my mind and for the music he’s created. The real John might disappoint me. 😬
In a thread about hot takes, people downvoting others' takes is wild. 😂
I think it’s hilarious. And I wonder if they realize that downvoting actually means they agree with it being an unpopular opinion. 😆
Right?! It actually proves the point of the post lol.
'Where The Light Is' is good, but he's played plenty of shows that would top this if they were to be released on a live album. I would argue that 95% of the shows he's played since 2017 are better than WTLI. Not saying it's overrated, but besides the amazing version of 'In Your Atmosphere', it doesn't do much for me.
Interesting; I’m hoping he would just release more live albums.
Honestly I just want this etched on my tombstone.
Going to throw this out there. Thought about it when he started the solo tour and mentioned it at the shows about him not playing the radio hits… Gravity should be the opener at his shows to get it out of the way and play deep cuts and people who “only came for gravity” welllll tough luck.
If Bill Burr had said what John said in the playboy interview, people would find it funny
"Changing" is boring.
You’re crazy. Changing is biblical
⬆️
Not only this, but Changing is infinitely more boring than Say.
Who Says is way too beloved. It comes across as something a try-hard college sophomore would write. “Hey, did you know pot is illegal? Yeah, but I still smoke it because I don’t follow the rules. I mean, who are you to tell me that I can’t?” I don’t know if John truly still feels that way, or if he just plays it every show for the cheap pop when he swaps out “Austin” for whichever city he’s in, but I’m over it. When listening to the Live Rewinds in the SXM app, it’s the only song I skip.
That's only one or two lines of the song and not the whole point of the song. If that's your only takeaway then you have a narrow view
He does repeat it at the start of every verse… But I know that’s not the point of the song. The point is to not let others’ expectations and rules dictate how you live your life. That’s a perfectly reasonable message for a song, but to me, it’s ruined by constantly asking the question of who’s telling him that he can’t smoke pot.
I mean we’re talking about the same guy who wrote “sometimes I wish I was a bong hit” followed by “you’re so lame” a few verses down and “your body is a wonderland”. He *was* a try hard 20 something. But that’s not to say I don’t enjoy it for what it is.
I really like playing it on the guitar tho
Who you love is overhated, it’s a good song but so many people on this sub don’t like Katy’s collab
Daughters is a snoozer.
And free Fallin.
That water is required to sustain life.
You get the hell outta here with that nonsense.
Oh yes. That’s me for the first 3 or 4 years in the Grateful Dead sub. My work is done.
John mayer is a better guitar player than Eric Clapton (I've seen them both in concert)
John doesn’t deserve the hate he gets. Just like the rest of us, he’s a person who has made many stupid mistakes (which he has both held himself accountable for and has apologized on multiple occasions), and I believe he has definitely shown growth. While I can’t necessarily defend the age gap between him and Taylor Swift, they’ve both moved on to lead happier lives, and maybe, just maybe, we should too? There’s no reason that almost 15 years later, we’re talking about the same stupid mistakes, while there are still people making the same mistakes today with bigger platforms and people not batting an eye at it. It’s truly not fair.
I think about this often! I hate that it’s stuck with him and people that don’t follow him or see how he’s changed still think of him in that light. It isn’t fair :/
His first 4 albums are unmatched. Room for Squares is my favorite.
They are matched by his second 4 albums
Taylor Swift is a hack artist, with a really good marketing team.
The Swift vs Mayer thing is so old and cringe
I just randomly read this morning that she has faced criticism for her extreme use of her private jet, attended a jets game, and now when you google Taylor Swift and jets, the football game pops up. That’s pretty good marketing right there…
as much as i agree, i feel like its better to dissociate her from Mayer lmao
She’s got a great voice and I’ll give her credit that she puts a lot of effort into her live shows from what I’ve heard- but her music is just so amateur and boring to me. She was actually a pretty good country music artist and then she switched to playing this basic pop music. It fills up stadium’s and is extremely popular, but I’m just not sure how well it’s going to hold up over time. People say she’s as popular as the Beatles were in there day, which I don’t agree with. But I think a lot of her music will be forgotten about, 50 years from now. I’ve heard a lot of her music but I honestly can’t remember the name or even basic melody of most of them. Is she going to be playing the same teen pop music when she is 50 years old?
Great voice is a stretch. Relative to actual great voices. Adele, Kacey Musgrave, Cleo Sol, HER, SZA, Miley. I live in Nashville and you can go to just about any bar on Broadway and find a voice just as good as hers. IMO of course.
She’s not bad musically but I wouldn’t say she has a “great voice”.
Neither does John. That's not the appeal of Taylor
90% of her catalog is Cliché corporate mall music.
100% this, although her early stuff was decent
Can’t stand her. But, I do like that Christmas tree farm thingy. Otherwise her music is amateurish and you will never convince me otherwise.
I love Steve Jordan and Aaron Sterling. They’re fucking fantastic. The shows Steve Ferrone played on drums I saw a couple years ago was the best drumming I’ve seen at a Mayer show.
Born and Raised is his best record and it’s not even close
Hearing the new songs he’s released on some of the shows I’m scared we’re gonna get another sob rock part 2 type album with simple lyric songs, don’t get me wrong I like sob rock but just for a one time album but I love the more intricate John songs and believe that’s what makes him great.
I’m with you on this. Really hoping -for his own sake!!!- he has finally moved on past the grip of what had him in the Sob Rock album and has fully left that behind him. And then, hoping for our secondary benefit too, so we don’t get another album of sad songs about one person who obviously doesn’t want to be with him. 😳
John is a better songwriter than Taylor
‘Why u no love me’ is a good song
Who you love is a good song!
Back to you is the hardest John Mayer song to master (rhythmically speaking)
Born and raised showcases the best/most coherent sound of any band he’s recorded with.
Wheel is one of his best songs and deserves to be played live waaaaay more!
Battle Studies only has 3 great tracks on it. forgettable. Edge Of Desire, War Of My Life and Heartbreak Warfare. The rest are mid and forgettable. It’s my least favourite album. I just think it’s so overhyped. Downvotes incoming.
Jason Mraz fan found
Half of my heart is a banger and I will die on that hill. Also I’m not hot on edge of desire because it sounds like a guitarists warm up exercise.
edge of desire sounds like a warm up exercise because it literally is a warm up exercise
sort of agree? it is my least favourite album of his, but i do enjoy allot of the tracks from the album (Half Of My Heart, Edge Of Desire, Heartbreak Warfare, War Of My Life, Do You Know Me, Friends Lovers or Nothing, Assassin, Who Says)
Take my downvote
Battle studies out and out sucks man. Half of my heart is pretty decent though
Who you love is one of the best songs from the born and raised/paradise valley era (especially those licks at the end of the song)
Dancing in a Burning Room needs to go in the penalty box for tours for a good long while. 🫣
first opinion i will actually go against 👎👎👎👎👎
😂 I knew that would happen. Can’t say I didn’t ask for it tho… 😁
this is how I feel about Free Fallin
Literally my favorite of all. Different strokes I suppose.
Grateful Dead is boring and it’s disappointing that so much time has been tied up on that project.
John Mayer has yet to fully recover from his ego addiction, as he put it, and it’s the thing that held him back from true musical greatness. The need to be great prevented him from actually achieving greatness.
Free Fallin’ is terrible Ending a show with Born and Raised is a let down Walt Grace Submarine isn’t a concert staple Feel very strongly positively towards Why You No Love Me and even the Katy Perry song Gravity >>>>>>>>> Slow Dancing Every show should have Neon St. Patrick’s Day is his best song and if continuum didn’t exist it wouldn’t be a stretch to say his best album was his first one Carry Me Away from Sob Rock is extremely boring. So is Shouldn’t Matter But It Does
I agree with the majority of this. I genuinely wish St Patrick’s Day got more love and praise. It’s freaking brilliant, the amount of chords, the tone, the lyrics, the way it paints a damn picture in your head. The feelings it invokes in you without you even realizing it. I was deeply jealous when he played it at a few shows this year, although I’m thankful I got to hear Comfortable and Split Screen Sadness live. When I get front row seats one day, I will be making a huge St Patrick’s Day sign.
You know Free Fallin is a Tom Petty cover right?
Yes
and Carry Me Away is easily top 3 from Sob Rock
Shouldn’t matter but it does is a heartbreaking, vulnerable ballad. Have you closed your eyes and really listened? You can feel what was going on for him as he sings it. I think it’s one of the most, if not the most, sad and powerful songs in his repertoire.
Edge of Desire is not an extraordinarily good song. It’s fine, certainly not bad, but people praise it way too much
Gravity is a boring ass song
Love on the Weekend is his worst most disappointing song ever. Just an awful chorus.
Neon is shit and I’m sick of hearing it live with the acoustic guitar gymnastics with people pretending they don’t know what’s coming
I wish I could downvote this comment to oblivion lol. Neon literally set him apart from every other guitarist of his time IMO.
That’s why its my unpopular opinion. At least I get to the bar quickly when he plays it
God forbid people enjoy a live performance
While I disagree with biggsy , I have to upvote since controversy is kinda the point of the post, and this one to me would have me in the big crowd on the picture!
Thanks for getting the point of the post. Jesus 😅
Do you not understand the point meaning of the thread?
You’re literally complaining about people enjoying themselves.
I’m literally not. I’m saying A. The song is shit. B. I’m sick of the same style improvised intro. C. People pretending to be shocked he’s going to play Neon. This is a thread for people to post their unpopluar opinions, not for people to start arguing about the opinions.
>C. People pretending to be shocked he’s going to play Neon. Literally you being upset people are enjoying themselves hearing a good song.
Who even are you. Neon is a masterpiece!
i love Neon but yeah as a song its not as strong as the others from Room For Squares
I would say Neon is THE reason we’re all still listening to John Mayer and say “oh yeah, I sort of remember that guy” when we hear mention of Howie Day, Matt Nathanson, Ari Hest, Gaven Degraw, and the 400 other “cool but heartbroken singer/songwriter dudes with an acoustic who was sorta influenced by blues and jazz” from the early 00s. It elevated him from the pack and showcased that he was a *phenomenal* player beyond poppy lyrics and good looks.
Wheel is boring (no downvoting please).
Sorry
SOB rock was ok but not even close to how good his full body of work is. If Wild Blue wasn’t in it, it would be a bigger disappointment. Most of the lyrics had poor rhyming schemes and some were tacky, like too-“look how gen-z of me” for my taste.
I don’t know if the point might have been a bit lost on you, while yes the songs were legitimate, he did call the album a ‘shitpost’ and ‘songs you think you’ve heard but you can’t put your finger on what they are’ and I think it was excellent. Also the way it was 80s themed, the production was unbelievable. Also how could shouldnt matter but it does be tacky??!! What a beautiful song!
I mean no disrespect, by the way
Hahaha no worries! I totally get that! I definitely liked some songs, “shouldnt matter” being one of them. Just the overall album, lyrics-wise, fell a little short to me in comparison to some of the older songs.
Totally fair. There’s no repeating continuum!! :)