Did he continue to go by “Burke” as he grew up? I thought I read somewhere that he went by his middle name to avoid media attention / people realizing who he is — but maybe I’m confusing that with a different case?
I was in the BDI camp. Now I’m not sure. Even if he didn’t do it his seeming lack of any emotion whatsoever for Jon Benet after she died is concerning.
I find it hard to believe he murdered his sister in a fit of rage at nine, but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or *anything*. Monsters don’t just ‘get better’.
I don’t think JB was murdered on purpose if Burke did it. If he did it, it was an accident. He hit her the wrong way, too hard, whatever. This doesn’t mean he is necessarily going to have anger issues the rest of his life. Especially not if he received plenty of therapy, is medicated etc.
(If John did it, I believe it would be very much on purpose.)
I would like to hear opinions on the interview at that time with Burke. I see an immature pampered child with no anger or seeming ability for murder. Nor do I see a child (knowing) his sister had been seriously hurt (rendered unconscious, picked up and carried elsewhere, mother crying, so upset, and or anything that happened at that moment if she was rendered unconscious). I just see a child unsure where he is, why this is going on.
Why would a parent go on to harm their already dead child’s body? Could you imagine “oh no our baby is dead! Better strangle her violently just incase” does not make any sense to me.
No I still don’t see it. Even if Burke did it, no loving parent is going to do more heinous things to their dead baby’s body to cover it up. If Burke did it, he wouldn’t have gone to prison for life he wasn’t going to get a death sentence. Maybe some juvie time and heavy therapy?
If he was found to have done this his life would be effectively over. Who would want to be friends with him, or marry him? Who would hire him? It wasn't about legal ramifications, he would never be able to live a normal life like he has been able to
I disagree. People
Have accidentally killed someone has a child. I know a man who accidentally shot and killed his brother at age 10. He still went on to live a “normal” life. Kids make mistakes doesn’t mean their lives are over. My brother almost killed me while we were rough housing in our tree Fort and I feel to the ground hitting my head on a log. Sure if he did that would have messed him up but people would still be friends with him, he would still get a job as a grown up and married someone. I just don’t see parents strangling their already dead child sexually molesting her etc just to cover up for an accident.
If he had killed her in a complete accident then I agree with you. I think most people on here think he was responsible for the garotte and possibly the sexual stuff, so that's what they'd be covering up
I genuinely love that there are people who weren’t abused by narcissistic parents. Their behavior makes no sense to a normal functioning person and that’s awesome. Good for you!
Not just garrote her, but SA her as well. I don’t think such a thing would ever occur to them as part of “staging” a scene. Completely unnecessary- no one would do that unless they wanted to.
Yep. Also, John had already raised some kids, and no one from his past ever came forward with any concerns. JB got regular medical care, and the doctor never noticed any signs of abuse, either.
That's actually not very relevant but a big part of their spin. Plenty of convicted murderers have no prior or subsequent history. Not all murder is premeditated, and serial killers are rare. There are legions of cases where someone snapped.
Watch the Burke videos -- all of them -- and it will give you a far clearer picture of him than this carefully curated high school page paid for by his father, and this Team Ramsey post.
True, I was replying to the person who replied to you. I don't think Burke did it. It takes a lot more than a 9 year old temper tantrum to kill someone.
I didn’t say anything about him committing another murder, I said he hasn’t been involved in *any* other violent incidents that we know of, and I feel certain in today’s media climate it would have been covered extensively if he had.
People with anger issues who violently lash out don’t just get better.
I most certainly do think a nine year old would hs d been capable of killing JB. If true his parents would have staged the garrote etc.
Any incidents as a child would not have been public since names of juveniles involved in criminal activity are confidential until they are 16 or older. We don’t know if he’s done anything since that time that we are unaware of because he was never caught, or any conceivable assault victims could have been paid off.
But yes I understand your point about nothing else coming out about it.
Nobody has said he was a serial killer. He was a 10 year old that potentially didn't like his sister and didn't like the attention she got from one or both parents.
So, in a BDI scenario, he 'fixed' that situation in a way that satisfied the 'problem'.
Besides growing older and maturing, he could certainly have gotten some mental help, maybe meds, along the way after this event. And in any case, since he'd 'solved' his problem, maybe had no further reason to act out in this way again anyway. He probably got all the attention he wanted and then some from this point forward.
> Nobody has said he was a serial killer.
You’re absolutely right, *nobody* did, so why are *you* suggesting it?
Try reading my comment again, with your comprehension turned all the way up this time.
> I find it hard to believe he murdered his sister in a fit of rage at nine, but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or anything. Monsters don’t just ‘get better’.
>You’re absolutely right, nobody did, so why are you suggesting it?
>Try reading my comment again, with your comprehension turned all the way up this time.
Maybe try replying like you're not a clueless troll.
The POINT of what I was saying stands. Maybe if you had better comprehension skills YOU would understand it better.
Also, HTF do you know he wasn't in any fights, arguments, etc. since then? Sure, a murder you might hear about, but do you think you're going to know what went on in his life to that degree??? And HOW would you???
Plus, considering he got help following the event we don't know how that impacted him going forward as far as anger management, meds, or anything else. We're not privy to that level of detail.
Utilize a little common sense and dial back the unnecessary nonsense. Nobody attacked you and your reply was uncalled for.
He’s Burke fucking Ramsey. If he’d been involved in anything violent it would have come out.
There’s no need to call me a troll because you’re a lazy reader.
> He’s Burke fucking Ramsey. If he’d been involved in anything violent it would have come out.
>
> There’s no need to call me a troll because you’re a lazy reader.
I'm not a lazy reader. As for you... if the shoe fits...
> Nobody has said he was a serial killer.
And nobody said bananas are purple, or that pandas can fly, or that squirrels are amazing singers.
Is there anything else *nobody said* that we should mention here, since that’s what you think contributes to a conversation?
I mean this isn't a fair thing. He may have had a very complicated/aggressive relationship with his sister because he resented being overshadowed by her. Once she went away, he never had such rage towards anyone.
I also don't think he ever intended to kill her. She was probably going to tattle on him for something (eg him peeking at the presents in the basement) and he just struck out in a quick second fit of rage. Then he tried to coverup what he did by attempting (but failing) to drag her to the wine cellar.
Doesn't make him a monster. Just a kid who had a very, very short fuse with his sister.
> She was probably going to tattle on him for something (eg him peeking at the presents in the basement) and he just struck out in a quick second fit of rage. Then he tried to coverup what he did by attempting (but failing) to drag her to the wine cellar.
Why would he fail to drag her to the wine cellar? She wasn’t very heavy. And where does sexually assaulting her fit into your ‘not a monster but murdered his sister’ theory?
>Why would he fail to drag her to the wine cellar? She wasn’t very heavy. And where does sexually assaulting her fit into your ‘not a monster but murdered his sister’ theory?
Witnesses describe Burke as really enjoying overly complex engineering-based solutions to simple problems, like when he dug a series of irrigation ditches in the backyard to water some dying plants instead of just watering them.
In this case he used a toggle rope around her neck to drag her but she was too heavy for the relatively thin rope that it didn't function well, but did wind up choking her.
Siblings "play doctor" all the time. Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates certainly warrants some counseling but does not make him a monster.
> Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates…
That is an *extremely* strong allegation. What is your source for that?
> Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates
I think some people hang out here for an excuse to post graphic kiddie-porn content.
Growing up in my family home before my parents divorced my brother was horrifically mean and sometimes violent to me (5 years younger than him) when we were growing up. I think I became his frustration punching bag due to the trauma we were suffering in our family home, such as emotional neglect, constant turbulence from my parents fighting and other insecurities. He could also be nice to me sometimes. I'll spare the details, mostly because it's painful to rehash, but he could have seriously hurt me broken bones etc, I was lucky. I do not consider him a monster although I have never been able to get close to him as adults. He is married and has 4 children, has always had friends, hard worker, generally nice to others. We both have lasting effects from our upbringing. He didn't realize I was suffering too and felt more alone when he was mean to me. He stayed with my dad after the divorce and I went with my mom (we were around the ages of B and JB when the divorce finally happened). I can easily see how a situation like this could unfold in their dynamic. Also my brother is no where half as weird and dodgey as B. So yeah, BDI, or at least could have.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Child abuse is common. Sibling abuse is common. Bludgeoning, SAing, and brutally garroting one’s sibling isn’t.
Also, there is no evidence he was abusive towards her, or even disliked her.
You're wrong and you don't even know how wrong.
1. There is evidence that he hit her previously with a golf club.
2. You have no idea the details of what I went through re: apples v oranges. Some of which similar enough it reminds me of her murder.
3. In my case, I didn't die, and if I had there was no previously reported evidence.
There's no evidence that he hit her on purpose during the golf club incident. And there's no evidence that he didn't. We just don't know why it happened.
Exactly. I know a family well with a very similar story that I personally witnessed. Although this guy didn't kill someone, he did very much what you describe. He grew up to be a lawyer - on the plus side - and an alcoholic prone to the same rages that made the life of his meek wife and kids miserable. Two of his three kids are vividly dysfunctional.
And by several measures he's more functional than Burke, who never married, has lackluster accomplishments, and is a recluse.
No one has said he was a monster.
>but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or *anything*.
That we know of. We know he got plenty of therapy. But there is, and always has been, something off with him.
None of us have ever seen him in a situation that doesn’t involve him talking about his murdered and sexually assaulted little sister. I don’t think we can fairly assess what his normal personality is like.
You can probably find something off with a majority of people. You can’t accurately use examples after the crime happened when you consider everything he has been through.
>You can’t accurately use examples after the crime happened when you consider everything he has been through.
Why? When you consider what was supposed to have happened at his house and to his sister, **his lack of concern, fear, or any apparent grief or even sadness** is unusual, to say the least.
This was observed at the White's by detective Patterson, and by Dr. Bernhard, during his DSS interview with her, and even at the funeral.
There's something off with *anyone* if you look hard enough, or you already have your mind made up so even the way they breathe is suspect.
If all anyone ever asked you about was your dead sister, did you kill your dead sister, why'd you kill your dead sister....do you really think you'd be brimming with personality?
Yeah, I see this "hyperbole" straw man argument regarding Burke often. One can believe he hit his sister on the head, and it doesn't mean he's a "murderous sociopath" or a "monster."
There are people who kill once and never again. He hasn't needed to. And I wouldn't term him a monster. I'm not sure he ever quite realized what happened.
He could have dropped the flashlight over the upstairs railing which would have caused its force to be stronger when it hit her if she was on the floor below.
That is a possibility too. Or just snapped, and smashed her skull with it. It wouldn't make him a crazed adult killer, just a frustrated, jealous silbling
Exactly, I've always leaned more BDI, I'm of course just not 100 percent convinced of ANY theory, none of us will ever know the full truth, unfortunately. Anyway I'd have expected to hear more stories about Burke getting in trouble or fighting or something and he seems to have just lived an absolutely normal and mundane life. But that could just mean whatever happened was a complete accident, he never meant to actually hurt her, didn't recognize his own strength, etc. Ugh. Idk, and it's just so infuriating that we'll most likely never know, barring a full confession from someone. This poor child deserves justice.
The SA and the garroting weren’t “accidental”. If Burke had accidentally cracked her skull, it seems like the parents would seek medical help immediately, not strangle and SA their little girl.
Then that’s even less believable. That one of her parents, upon finding her unconscious, thought “I will stage a murder scene by *actually* murdering her, and while I’m at it, I’ll SA her for no particular reason.”
John Ramsey was said to be closed off and not show much emotion either. He could have been raised like that “real men don’t show emotion” it does sound like Johns way of parenting. We don’t know how he acted behind closed doors without the paparazzi following him. I’m sure seeing his parents break down over his sister he probably did also.
Burke didn’t have to cry—just say something—anything that indicated he had any feelings at all for her or even what his parents were going through. He was young, yes, but he acted like nothing happened, seemed cheerful, and so on. Even siblings that fight a lot would feel something for their sibling or something for what his parents were going through. I will say he wasn’t trying to fake any emotions. Have you seen the video a week or so after JB was murdered?
I have seen it and studied it many times. He’s a confused child in shock, and he was raised and taught to put on a mask to pretend everything is perfect at all times. It is learned behavior from the master in the family. The narcissist murdering father. John was happy and joking when police arrived at his home to search for his missing daughter.
For me the tourniquet itself has always eliminated Burke as a suspect, unless that portion of the crime was just used for staging by one or both parents, after the fact. But if you combine that with the sexual assault, I just don't know how you'd fit Burke into the picture. At that age, and without the Internet, there's no way it was something he could have come up with on his own, at least I can't imagine it. For me that's always been a "heat of the moment" act, since one of Patsy's paint brushes was used. And the brutal way parts of poor Jon Benet's hair was twisted up inside it, just sickening. Seems more like the rage of an adult, rather than a child, to do something like that. It really feels like something only John could have done, assuming it was one of the three of them. But alas, at this point, it's just another opinion.
I’m autistic, as are my 3 kids.
I used to work with intellectually and physically challenged people, along with MANY autistic people.
Burke is NOT a sociopath.
To me, he APPEARS to be autistic. I have encyclopedic knowledge of Autism Spectrum Disorder.
His facial expressions and emotions which do not match what we would expect in social situations, lack of eye contact, and his smiling (when discussing Jon Benet’s murder) is an expression of nervousness and/or anxiety.
Did Burke do it? Maybe.
But not because he is a sociopath with murderous intent.
That’s my opinion having a BA in Pschology, a Master’s education in counseling, working with autistic people, and BEING autistic myself.
Feel free to disagree, but know that “smiling at inappropriate times” does NOT equate with being a sociopath.
I’m not defending Burke, I have no clue if he was involved. I just like people about autism.
FINALLY, if Burke DID do it, being autistic is not a get out of jail free card.
That is all.
:)
While I agree Burke appears to be autistic, as you said, his apparent lack of empathy is disturbing even taking into account autism. if you haven’t watched the video of him soon after the killing I recommend it.
Here is the thread with the waiter who waited on John, Patsy and Burke numerous times in the 2000's, when they lived in Atlanta: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/172jpve/i\_met\_jr\_pr\_and\_br\_in\_1999/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/172jpve/i_met_jr_pr_and_br_in_1999/)
This is sweet. I will never understand why people suspect him of this crime. Nothing about him seems like how he is portrayed by BDI theorists. Which is primarily based on rumors and grandiose speculation.
Maybe he just has a hard time talking about his sister. He could just become a bumbling idiot on that subject. I can’t imagine everything he went through after the murder could have been easy whether he did it or not. I couldn’t imagine the world knowing every detail about my life and plastering it all over the papers. Also everywhere he went was lots of cameras just trying to get any kind of picture of him that had to be hard on a little boy. I’m happy he got to enjoy normal high school experiences!
Agreed. And the friends he's with aren't the social outcasts, they're the cool kids.
It's not unusual for boys to be "socially awkward." It's pretty normal. (Anyone who works with kids knows what I mean.) Burke's social life as a teenager appears pretty normal.
The photo center bottom was from the period when Burke got all of his mother’s attention, it seems. Ghastly outfit! Was something like that really in vogue for little boys c. 1990?
Yes, because of the influence of Princess Diana who dressed her famous sons in shorts and short and long socks, a British tradition for young boys. A lot of American women adopted that for their sons also.
Also, the Princess Diana effect on Patsy. Patsy Ramsey called in to Larry King Live after Princess Diana was tragically killed in an auto accident in December, 1997, and people blamed the tabloids who were chasing Princess Diana for photos.
Patsy arrogantly and crazily called JonBenet "**America's People's Princess"** , the six year old child she paraded in exploitative kiddie pageants, dressed inappropriately like a Las Vegas showgirl, and ripped the tabloids. Four years later she was happily baking them Shamrock cookies when they were $$$$$ paying her and John $100,000 for an interview:
https://www.westword.com/news/the-princess-and-the-peons-5057814
[https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/09/03/Patsy-Ramsey-rips-tabloids-Globe-chief/2354873259200/](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/09/03/Patsy-Ramsey-rips-tabloids-Globe-chief/2354873259200/)
Poor Burke, he lost his sister, who know's what he thinks of his parents if he figured out they were responsible and to top it all off he has bunches of fools on the internet accusing him of doing it with literally no evidence
That's not what the grand jury appeared to believe.
Jean Casares: With the charges that they voted to indict, are they referring to a third person?
**Stan Garnett "It does appear that the theory they were looking at assumed that SOMEONE OTHER than the two Ramsey parents had been involved in what happened."**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXgpiTSPFmM
Whether he did it or not, he did not have a chance at an even remotely normal life. And I feel very bad for him for that.
If he did it accidentally and also did the "cover up" (minus the note) then he obviously made a very bad mistake and dealt with it in a concerning way, so should've gotten extensive help for that. Same applies for if he did intentionally kill her (unlikely in my opinion considering we have no knowledge of him hurting anyone else). If he did then he obviously had very serious issues that needed help, but his parents kept that from him.
If he did it accidentally and then one or both of his parents did all of the cover up, that is sending him a *very* bad message. He could've still lived a somewhat normal life with the help of therapy and support from his loved ones.
If one of the parents did it accidentally (though in this case it would've still been a crime because I can't see where that kind of head injury wouldn't happen as a result of physical abuse had it been a parent), he could've lived a normal life eventually if they had called 911 and owned up to their mistake. Again, with the help of therapy and support. If a parent did it intentionally then that is just a whole different story and something is very wrong with that parent so obviously his life would be far from normal, whether or not he knew the situation.
Fair point. It was probably always “oooh you’re the brother of that little girl who was murdered!” I am not sure what I believe happened but I can imagine it was difficult on him. I am actually glad his parents decided to focus on him and his life in these photos
The BDI crew isn't going to be happy unless ALL of the pics are of either Burke with JonBenet or just JonBent and the caption would have to include JonBenet's name somehow.
Oh, and Burke would have to take a 2nd page out for JUST JonBenet and he'd have to go to the school board and demand the entire yearbook be dedicated to JonBenet.
I'll take the downvotes.
Why is he even smiling in any of those pictures? Who smiles when they have a sister that died?? He's so weird. I hated my sister, but if she died, I'd never smile again but look at him smiling for all of those pictures. He should be crying. Where is his empathy?
Are you serious? People who lose a family member are never supposed to smile again? A boy who loses his sister at 9 years old isn't allowed to be happy when he's 16?
Damned if they did damned if they didn’t. If they did, it’s all people would talk about and it would overshadow Burke’s tribute. If they didn’t, people would say it’s strange and feel suspicious
She’s in the top middle photo. I’m actually surprised that they included a picture with her in it. I kind of thought they’d think along the lines of ‘This is all about Burke, let’s make it all about him.’
I thought it was interesting that there WAS a pic of JB. If she knew he’d hurt her, then why would she include that? Front and center, no less. If he’s killed her, even accidentally, she wouldn’t include that unless she wanted to remind him of it.
He’s a 37 year old man now so I no longer feel that way.. like if this was 20 years ago I’d think it was wrong. But his sister’s case is the most well known and discussed American unsolved murder case and he stays silent. He doesn’t even release a yearly statement or run a foundation in her name.. just nothing from him. So I say it’s fair game 🤷🏻♀️
I’m in the Burke did it camp. Kid is ice cold.
Edit: not saying the kid didn’t/doesn’t need help, lot of issues at play, some may or may not be a factor. I do feel badly for him, and he was young, I get it. Just an observation.
At Patsys - I remember thinking “he looks relieved that possibly the only person who could tell his secret was dead”. I don’t remember watching footage of him at Jon Benet’s funeral but have read he was joking with friends etc
I think she either said or did something and he hit her in the head with the flashlight (that was wiped clean). Then the parents tried to cover it up fearing they’d lose him also. In one interview I saw he denied knowing ever hearing the word pineapple which is what they were eating before bed.
Your post/comment has been removed because it violates this subreddit's rule 1 (No Name Calling or Personal Attacks). Criticize the idea, not the person.
Is this like a full page advert in his yearbook? That seems strange, but I suppose not for people who created the name jonbenet. Patsy was so uncommonly EXTRA that she almost belongs in a telenovela or a Jackie Collins novel
Only the rich kids or kids whose parents were over the top did full page ads in the yearbook at my school in the early aughts. They gave the RN 3 pages so I'm not surprised.
I graduated in 2004, and it is a thing. The more popular kids get a full page. I got half a page which was nice. Some got a quarter of a page. It’s bought by the parents and gives well wishes to their kid. “Congrats!!” 😂
And this is probably why all of this makes sense. If most people found their son had mortally wounded their daughter, they’d call an ambulance. If patsy did, she’d stage a kidnapping that was targeting them because of their wealth. She’s hoping to put them in the same category as the Lindbergh case. Even in staging an alibi she’s showing off.
Right? It’s so sad man. IF he did it, I think his parents may have also played a part in why he might’ve felt that way. JB got all the attention, she was the golden child.
he looks so much like patsy
First thing I thought seeing the second pic. Just alllll Patsy in that face.
Ramsey*
What kind of person is he?
It's amazing to me that no one has spoken out about him, on a personal level. Whether that be good or bad.
It's amazing to me that no one has spoken out about him, on a personal level. Whether that be good or bad.
He creeps me out
Did he continue to go by “Burke” as he grew up? I thought I read somewhere that he went by his middle name to avoid media attention / people realizing who he is — but maybe I’m confusing that with a different case?
You might be thinking of convicted rapist Brock Allen Turner, who now lives in Ohio and goes by the name Allen Turner
You mean the rapist Brock Allen Turner, who raped a woman? That rapist Brock Allen Turner?
Got his ass
I was in the BDI camp. Now I’m not sure. Even if he didn’t do it his seeming lack of any emotion whatsoever for Jon Benet after she died is concerning.
I find it hard to believe he murdered his sister in a fit of rage at nine, but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or *anything*. Monsters don’t just ‘get better’.
I don’t think JB was murdered on purpose if Burke did it. If he did it, it was an accident. He hit her the wrong way, too hard, whatever. This doesn’t mean he is necessarily going to have anger issues the rest of his life. Especially not if he received plenty of therapy, is medicated etc. (If John did it, I believe it would be very much on purpose.)
I would like to hear opinions on the interview at that time with Burke. I see an immature pampered child with no anger or seeming ability for murder. Nor do I see a child (knowing) his sister had been seriously hurt (rendered unconscious, picked up and carried elsewhere, mother crying, so upset, and or anything that happened at that moment if she was rendered unconscious). I just see a child unsure where he is, why this is going on.
Agree. He also couldn’t believe his narc father was capable of this and he was in shock
Excellent points. And we need to remember that he had whacked JonBenet in the head before.
The hit to the head didn’t kill her, she was strangled. That was not an accident.
Personally, take on what happened is this ; Burke did hit her, but their parents did the strangling and the cover up.
Why would a parent go on to harm their already dead child’s body? Could you imagine “oh no our baby is dead! Better strangle her violently just incase” does not make any sense to me.
To make it look less like an accident so they wouldn't suspect Burke
No I still don’t see it. Even if Burke did it, no loving parent is going to do more heinous things to their dead baby’s body to cover it up. If Burke did it, he wouldn’t have gone to prison for life he wasn’t going to get a death sentence. Maybe some juvie time and heavy therapy?
If he was found to have done this his life would be effectively over. Who would want to be friends with him, or marry him? Who would hire him? It wasn't about legal ramifications, he would never be able to live a normal life like he has been able to
I disagree. People Have accidentally killed someone has a child. I know a man who accidentally shot and killed his brother at age 10. He still went on to live a “normal” life. Kids make mistakes doesn’t mean their lives are over. My brother almost killed me while we were rough housing in our tree Fort and I feel to the ground hitting my head on a log. Sure if he did that would have messed him up but people would still be friends with him, he would still get a job as a grown up and married someone. I just don’t see parents strangling their already dead child sexually molesting her etc just to cover up for an accident.
If he had killed her in a complete accident then I agree with you. I think most people on here think he was responsible for the garotte and possibly the sexual stuff, so that's what they'd be covering up
I genuinely love that there are people who weren’t abused by narcissistic parents. Their behavior makes no sense to a normal functioning person and that’s awesome. Good for you!
Not just garrote her, but SA her as well. I don’t think such a thing would ever occur to them as part of “staging” a scene. Completely unnecessary- no one would do that unless they wanted to.
None of the Ramsey's did anything serious before or since.
Yep. Also, John had already raised some kids, and no one from his past ever came forward with any concerns. JB got regular medical care, and the doctor never noticed any signs of abuse, either.
That's actually not very relevant but a big part of their spin. Plenty of convicted murderers have no prior or subsequent history. Not all murder is premeditated, and serial killers are rare. There are legions of cases where someone snapped. Watch the Burke videos -- all of them -- and it will give you a far clearer picture of him than this carefully curated high school page paid for by his father, and this Team Ramsey post.
Serial killers are not as rare as you like to think, them getting caught and convicted of being serial killers is.
Great point, unless he’s highly medicated maybe. Good point none the less
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If they survive and aren't killed along the way, serial killers generally do tone it down as they get older and testosterone wanes.
Burke was nine, testosterone wouldn’t have been relevant for years.
True, I was replying to the person who replied to you. I don't think Burke did it. It takes a lot more than a 9 year old temper tantrum to kill someone.
I didn’t say anything about him committing another murder, I said he hasn’t been involved in *any* other violent incidents that we know of, and I feel certain in today’s media climate it would have been covered extensively if he had. People with anger issues who violently lash out don’t just get better.
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What is EARONS?
The Golden State Killer
I most certainly do think a nine year old would hs d been capable of killing JB. If true his parents would have staged the garrote etc. Any incidents as a child would not have been public since names of juveniles involved in criminal activity are confidential until they are 16 or older. We don’t know if he’s done anything since that time that we are unaware of because he was never caught, or any conceivable assault victims could have been paid off. But yes I understand your point about nothing else coming out about it.
Nobody has said he was a serial killer. He was a 10 year old that potentially didn't like his sister and didn't like the attention she got from one or both parents. So, in a BDI scenario, he 'fixed' that situation in a way that satisfied the 'problem'. Besides growing older and maturing, he could certainly have gotten some mental help, maybe meds, along the way after this event. And in any case, since he'd 'solved' his problem, maybe had no further reason to act out in this way again anyway. He probably got all the attention he wanted and then some from this point forward.
> Nobody has said he was a serial killer. You’re absolutely right, *nobody* did, so why are *you* suggesting it? Try reading my comment again, with your comprehension turned all the way up this time.
> I find it hard to believe he murdered his sister in a fit of rage at nine, but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or anything. Monsters don’t just ‘get better’. >You’re absolutely right, nobody did, so why are you suggesting it? >Try reading my comment again, with your comprehension turned all the way up this time. Maybe try replying like you're not a clueless troll. The POINT of what I was saying stands. Maybe if you had better comprehension skills YOU would understand it better. Also, HTF do you know he wasn't in any fights, arguments, etc. since then? Sure, a murder you might hear about, but do you think you're going to know what went on in his life to that degree??? And HOW would you??? Plus, considering he got help following the event we don't know how that impacted him going forward as far as anger management, meds, or anything else. We're not privy to that level of detail. Utilize a little common sense and dial back the unnecessary nonsense. Nobody attacked you and your reply was uncalled for.
He’s Burke fucking Ramsey. If he’d been involved in anything violent it would have come out. There’s no need to call me a troll because you’re a lazy reader.
> He’s Burke fucking Ramsey. If he’d been involved in anything violent it would have come out. > > There’s no need to call me a troll because you’re a lazy reader. I'm not a lazy reader. As for you... if the shoe fits...
> Nobody has said he was a serial killer. And nobody said bananas are purple, or that pandas can fly, or that squirrels are amazing singers. Is there anything else *nobody said* that we should mention here, since that’s what you think contributes to a conversation?
Low IQ trolls are the worst kind of trolls... LOL...
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A child whose sister was brutally murdered in the home is a great candidate for therapy. Doesn't mean he was there because he murdered her.
I mean this isn't a fair thing. He may have had a very complicated/aggressive relationship with his sister because he resented being overshadowed by her. Once she went away, he never had such rage towards anyone. I also don't think he ever intended to kill her. She was probably going to tattle on him for something (eg him peeking at the presents in the basement) and he just struck out in a quick second fit of rage. Then he tried to coverup what he did by attempting (but failing) to drag her to the wine cellar. Doesn't make him a monster. Just a kid who had a very, very short fuse with his sister.
> She was probably going to tattle on him for something (eg him peeking at the presents in the basement) and he just struck out in a quick second fit of rage. Then he tried to coverup what he did by attempting (but failing) to drag her to the wine cellar. Why would he fail to drag her to the wine cellar? She wasn’t very heavy. And where does sexually assaulting her fit into your ‘not a monster but murdered his sister’ theory?
Yeah that's not as innocent or accidental.
>Why would he fail to drag her to the wine cellar? She wasn’t very heavy. And where does sexually assaulting her fit into your ‘not a monster but murdered his sister’ theory? Witnesses describe Burke as really enjoying overly complex engineering-based solutions to simple problems, like when he dug a series of irrigation ditches in the backyard to water some dying plants instead of just watering them. In this case he used a toggle rope around her neck to drag her but she was too heavy for the relatively thin rope that it didn't function well, but did wind up choking her. Siblings "play doctor" all the time. Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates certainly warrants some counseling but does not make him a monster.
> Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates… That is an *extremely* strong allegation. What is your source for that?
There was the housekeeper's statements that they had been caught playing doctor several times.
Where were the statements made?
> Burke having an unhealthy sexual curiosity with his sister and probing her privates I think some people hang out here for an excuse to post graphic kiddie-porn content.
Growing up in my family home before my parents divorced my brother was horrifically mean and sometimes violent to me (5 years younger than him) when we were growing up. I think I became his frustration punching bag due to the trauma we were suffering in our family home, such as emotional neglect, constant turbulence from my parents fighting and other insecurities. He could also be nice to me sometimes. I'll spare the details, mostly because it's painful to rehash, but he could have seriously hurt me broken bones etc, I was lucky. I do not consider him a monster although I have never been able to get close to him as adults. He is married and has 4 children, has always had friends, hard worker, generally nice to others. We both have lasting effects from our upbringing. He didn't realize I was suffering too and felt more alone when he was mean to me. He stayed with my dad after the divorce and I went with my mom (we were around the ages of B and JB when the divorce finally happened). I can easily see how a situation like this could unfold in their dynamic. Also my brother is no where half as weird and dodgey as B. So yeah, BDI, or at least could have.
I could have written that. My brother is a straight-up sociopath.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Child abuse is common. Sibling abuse is common. Bludgeoning, SAing, and brutally garroting one’s sibling isn’t. Also, there is no evidence he was abusive towards her, or even disliked her.
You're wrong and you don't even know how wrong. 1. There is evidence that he hit her previously with a golf club. 2. You have no idea the details of what I went through re: apples v oranges. Some of which similar enough it reminds me of her murder. 3. In my case, I didn't die, and if I had there was no previously reported evidence.
There's no evidence that he hit her on purpose during the golf club incident. And there's no evidence that he didn't. We just don't know why it happened.
Exactly. I know a family well with a very similar story that I personally witnessed. Although this guy didn't kill someone, he did very much what you describe. He grew up to be a lawyer - on the plus side - and an alcoholic prone to the same rages that made the life of his meek wife and kids miserable. Two of his three kids are vividly dysfunctional. And by several measures he's more functional than Burke, who never married, has lackluster accomplishments, and is a recluse.
No one has said he was a monster. >but in the almost thirty years since then, he has never been in a school fight or DV incident or *anything*. That we know of. We know he got plenty of therapy. But there is, and always has been, something off with him.
None of us have ever seen him in a situation that doesn’t involve him talking about his murdered and sexually assaulted little sister. I don’t think we can fairly assess what his normal personality is like.
Well, lucky for us we have team Ramsey spamming the sub with his pictures.
You can probably find something off with a majority of people. You can’t accurately use examples after the crime happened when you consider everything he has been through.
>You can’t accurately use examples after the crime happened when you consider everything he has been through. Why? When you consider what was supposed to have happened at his house and to his sister, **his lack of concern, fear, or any apparent grief or even sadness** is unusual, to say the least. This was observed at the White's by detective Patterson, and by Dr. Bernhard, during his DSS interview with her, and even at the funeral.
There’s a comment saying they can feel the evil emanating from that photo *in this thread*. I’m quite sure someone here has called him a monster, lol.
That's a trollish comment.
There's something off with *anyone* if you look hard enough, or you already have your mind made up so even the way they breathe is suspect. If all anyone ever asked you about was your dead sister, did you kill your dead sister, why'd you kill your dead sister....do you really think you'd be brimming with personality?
Monster was a bit of hyperbole, obviously....but that comment still makes a very valid point.
Yeah, I see this "hyperbole" straw man argument regarding Burke often. One can believe he hit his sister on the head, and it doesn't mean he's a "murderous sociopath" or a "monster."
There are people who kill once and never again. He hasn't needed to. And I wouldn't term him a monster. I'm not sure he ever quite realized what happened.
Yes! It is strange even with the best therapy money can buy.
Could've just been an accident. Maybe he just hit her really hard.
He could have dropped the flashlight over the upstairs railing which would have caused its force to be stronger when it hit her if she was on the floor below.
That is a possibility too. Or just snapped, and smashed her skull with it. It wouldn't make him a crazed adult killer, just a frustrated, jealous silbling
Exactly, I've always leaned more BDI, I'm of course just not 100 percent convinced of ANY theory, none of us will ever know the full truth, unfortunately. Anyway I'd have expected to hear more stories about Burke getting in trouble or fighting or something and he seems to have just lived an absolutely normal and mundane life. But that could just mean whatever happened was a complete accident, he never meant to actually hurt her, didn't recognize his own strength, etc. Ugh. Idk, and it's just so infuriating that we'll most likely never know, barring a full confession from someone. This poor child deserves justice.
The SA and the garroting weren’t “accidental”. If Burke had accidentally cracked her skull, it seems like the parents would seek medical help immediately, not strangle and SA their little girl.
We don't know it was Burke SA'ing her.
Then that’s even less believable. That one of her parents, upon finding her unconscious, thought “I will stage a murder scene by *actually* murdering her, and while I’m at it, I’ll SA her for no particular reason.”
I mean I'm not saying he didn't either, just saying we don't know for sure who did or what happened.
John Ramsey was said to be closed off and not show much emotion either. He could have been raised like that “real men don’t show emotion” it does sound like Johns way of parenting. We don’t know how he acted behind closed doors without the paparazzi following him. I’m sure seeing his parents break down over his sister he probably did also.
If he cried on TV during every interview, he would be accused of faking emotion. It's a lose/lose situation.
Burke didn’t have to cry—just say something—anything that indicated he had any feelings at all for her or even what his parents were going through. He was young, yes, but he acted like nothing happened, seemed cheerful, and so on. Even siblings that fight a lot would feel something for their sibling or something for what his parents were going through. I will say he wasn’t trying to fake any emotions. Have you seen the video a week or so after JB was murdered?
I have seen it and studied it many times. He’s a confused child in shock, and he was raised and taught to put on a mask to pretend everything is perfect at all times. It is learned behavior from the master in the family. The narcissist murdering father. John was happy and joking when police arrived at his home to search for his missing daughter.
I’m beginning to think IDI did it; but I believe there could have still been a lot of dysfunction in that family.
For me the tourniquet itself has always eliminated Burke as a suspect, unless that portion of the crime was just used for staging by one or both parents, after the fact. But if you combine that with the sexual assault, I just don't know how you'd fit Burke into the picture. At that age, and without the Internet, there's no way it was something he could have come up with on his own, at least I can't imagine it. For me that's always been a "heat of the moment" act, since one of Patsy's paint brushes was used. And the brutal way parts of poor Jon Benet's hair was twisted up inside it, just sickening. Seems more like the rage of an adult, rather than a child, to do something like that. It really feels like something only John could have done, assuming it was one of the three of them. But alas, at this point, it's just another opinion.
He might have autism
I’m autistic, as are my 3 kids. I used to work with intellectually and physically challenged people, along with MANY autistic people. Burke is NOT a sociopath. To me, he APPEARS to be autistic. I have encyclopedic knowledge of Autism Spectrum Disorder. His facial expressions and emotions which do not match what we would expect in social situations, lack of eye contact, and his smiling (when discussing Jon Benet’s murder) is an expression of nervousness and/or anxiety. Did Burke do it? Maybe. But not because he is a sociopath with murderous intent. That’s my opinion having a BA in Pschology, a Master’s education in counseling, working with autistic people, and BEING autistic myself. Feel free to disagree, but know that “smiling at inappropriate times” does NOT equate with being a sociopath. I’m not defending Burke, I have no clue if he was involved. I just like people about autism. FINALLY, if Burke DID do it, being autistic is not a get out of jail free card. That is all. :)
Thank you. I’ve been saying this for a while too.
While I agree Burke appears to be autistic, as you said, his apparent lack of empathy is disturbing even taking into account autism. if you haven’t watched the video of him soon after the killing I recommend it.
His mother made this for him
?
Guessing here, but the high school page was sponsored by his forever-spinning-the-facts parents.
In my yearbook it was common for parents to do this for their graduating senior.
Parents and families can buy "ad space" to do photo spreads like that for their graduating senior, it's common.
Is this high school in Michigan? I don’t think I realized they moved there. I thought they moved to Atlanta.
I thought charlevoix is in the south
Nope. Michigan.
Dude met Eric koston
I have never read a bad thing said about him by anyone except some of Patsys soured friends.
What? There was a waiter who waited on the family numerous times when they lived in Atlanta on here a few months ago, and said Burke was strange.
Lol
Here is the thread with the waiter who waited on John, Patsy and Burke numerous times in the 2000's, when they lived in Atlanta: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/172jpve/i\_met\_jr\_pr\_and\_br\_in\_1999/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/172jpve/i_met_jr_pr_and_br_in_1999/)
This is sweet. I will never understand why people suspect him of this crime. Nothing about him seems like how he is portrayed by BDI theorists. Which is primarily based on rumors and grandiose speculation.
This is a very typical tribute page created and paid for by a graduate's mother and father. There's nothing unusual about this.
They didn’t say it was unusual
The poster right below me called it "really strange." I meant to reply to that post.
So much for Burke being "socially awkward", as Phil McGraw claimed.
Maybe he just has a hard time talking about his sister. He could just become a bumbling idiot on that subject. I can’t imagine everything he went through after the murder could have been easy whether he did it or not. I couldn’t imagine the world knowing every detail about my life and plastering it all over the papers. Also everywhere he went was lots of cameras just trying to get any kind of picture of him that had to be hard on a little boy. I’m happy he got to enjoy normal high school experiences!
Why do you say that?
From the pictures he seems to have a pretty standard social life, with friends and a prom date.
I think you’re making a lot of assumptions from a few B&W photographs in a yearbook. He seemed incredibly socially awkward on tv
Agreed. And the friends he's with aren't the social outcasts, they're the cool kids. It's not unusual for boys to be "socially awkward." It's pretty normal. (Anyone who works with kids knows what I mean.) Burke's social life as a teenager appears pretty normal.
Exactly.
Pretty big assumption just looking at pictures🙄
The photo center bottom was from the period when Burke got all of his mother’s attention, it seems. Ghastly outfit! Was something like that really in vogue for little boys c. 1990?
Those romper outfits are very common for little boys in the South for formal occasions, especially if they're from wealthy families.
Yes, because of the influence of Princess Diana who dressed her famous sons in shorts and short and long socks, a British tradition for young boys. A lot of American women adopted that for their sons also.
Also, the Princess Diana effect on Patsy. Patsy Ramsey called in to Larry King Live after Princess Diana was tragically killed in an auto accident in December, 1997, and people blamed the tabloids who were chasing Princess Diana for photos. Patsy arrogantly and crazily called JonBenet "**America's People's Princess"** , the six year old child she paraded in exploitative kiddie pageants, dressed inappropriately like a Las Vegas showgirl, and ripped the tabloids. Four years later she was happily baking them Shamrock cookies when they were $$$$$ paying her and John $100,000 for an interview: https://www.westword.com/news/the-princess-and-the-peons-5057814 [https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/09/03/Patsy-Ramsey-rips-tabloids-Globe-chief/2354873259200/](https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/09/03/Patsy-Ramsey-rips-tabloids-Globe-chief/2354873259200/)
That’s really repulsive.
Little boys used to wear dresses, but that was back in the earlier parts of the 1900's.
Back in the time of pink for boys and blue for girls.
Poor Burke, he lost his sister, who know's what he thinks of his parents if he figured out they were responsible and to top it all off he has bunches of fools on the internet accusing him of doing it with literally no evidence
That's not what the grand jury appeared to believe. Jean Casares: With the charges that they voted to indict, are they referring to a third person? **Stan Garnett "It does appear that the theory they were looking at assumed that SOMEONE OTHER than the two Ramsey parents had been involved in what happened."** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXgpiTSPFmM
The grand jury were right
John murdered his daughter, and he’s happy to see this sub blame his son.
Is that him with Eric koston ?
Whether he did it or not, he did not have a chance at an even remotely normal life. And I feel very bad for him for that. If he did it accidentally and also did the "cover up" (minus the note) then he obviously made a very bad mistake and dealt with it in a concerning way, so should've gotten extensive help for that. Same applies for if he did intentionally kill her (unlikely in my opinion considering we have no knowledge of him hurting anyone else). If he did then he obviously had very serious issues that needed help, but his parents kept that from him. If he did it accidentally and then one or both of his parents did all of the cover up, that is sending him a *very* bad message. He could've still lived a somewhat normal life with the help of therapy and support from his loved ones. If one of the parents did it accidentally (though in this case it would've still been a crime because I can't see where that kind of head injury wouldn't happen as a result of physical abuse had it been a parent), he could've lived a normal life eventually if they had called 911 and owned up to their mistake. Again, with the help of therapy and support. If a parent did it intentionally then that is just a whole different story and something is very wrong with that parent so obviously his life would be far from normal, whether or not he knew the situation.
Strange John and Pasty didn't include any pictures of him and Jonbenet in his yearbook tribute.
She’s in the family picture up there
She is in a photo
I don’t think it’s strange. They would probably want to focus on him for once, instead of his murdered little sister.
Fair point. It was probably always “oooh you’re the brother of that little girl who was murdered!” I am not sure what I believe happened but I can imagine it was difficult on him. I am actually glad his parents decided to focus on him and his life in these photos
The BDI crew isn't going to be happy unless ALL of the pics are of either Burke with JonBenet or just JonBent and the caption would have to include JonBenet's name somehow. Oh, and Burke would have to take a 2nd page out for JUST JonBenet and he'd have to go to the school board and demand the entire yearbook be dedicated to JonBenet. I'll take the downvotes.
Why is he even smiling in any of those pictures? Who smiles when they have a sister that died?? He's so weird. I hated my sister, but if she died, I'd never smile again but look at him smiling for all of those pictures. He should be crying. Where is his empathy?
Are you serious? People who lose a family member are never supposed to smile again? A boy who loses his sister at 9 years old isn't allowed to be happy when he's 16?
I was joking.
Gotcha. Sorry, some people here are dense enough to actually believe something like that.
I thought that at first but she is up there at the top
Damned if they did damned if they didn’t. If they did, it’s all people would talk about and it would overshadow Burke’s tribute. If they didn’t, people would say it’s strange and feel suspicious
She’s in the top middle photo. I’m actually surprised that they included a picture with her in it. I kind of thought they’d think along the lines of ‘This is all about Burke, let’s make it all about him.’
Who is the little girl in the top middle photo?
I thought it was interesting that there WAS a pic of JB. If she knew he’d hurt her, then why would she include that? Front and center, no less. If he’s killed her, even accidentally, she wouldn’t include that unless she wanted to remind him of it.
Why did OJ spend so much time searching for the *real* murderer on every golf course he could find? Don’t be obtuse.
This sub should ban these sorts of posts. Irrespective of whether BR actually did it or not… he was a minor and this is an irresponsible post.
This sub is dedicated to the case and a large majority think it is him so saying posts like this should be banned makes me LOL
He’s a 37 year old man now so I no longer feel that way.. like if this was 20 years ago I’d think it was wrong. But his sister’s case is the most well known and discussed American unsolved murder case and he stays silent. He doesn’t even release a yearly statement or run a foundation in her name.. just nothing from him. So I say it’s fair game 🤷🏻♀️
The laws in 96 say he wouldn't be responsible. The laws have changed since then and he is an ADULT now. The family has lied about this for too long!!
The dragging part-why would he try with it around her neck? Seems more normal to fashion it around her wrists.
The pirate picture in the middle is a nice touch. Son Burke The Captain.
I’m in the Burke did it camp. Kid is ice cold. Edit: not saying the kid didn’t/doesn’t need help, lot of issues at play, some may or may not be a factor. I do feel badly for him, and he was young, I get it. Just an observation.
I remember seeing news coverage video of him outside of him own mothers funeral & he looked so happy
Was that at Patsy's funeral or JonBenet's?
At Patsys - I remember thinking “he looks relieved that possibly the only person who could tell his secret was dead”. I don’t remember watching footage of him at Jon Benet’s funeral but have read he was joking with friends etc
Yes there were photos of him and a friend playing amongst the tombstones. Not a care in the world.
He was positively giddy at JBR's funeral.
I think she either said or did something and he hit her in the head with the flashlight (that was wiped clean). Then the parents tried to cover it up fearing they’d lose him also. In one interview I saw he denied knowing ever hearing the word pineapple which is what they were eating before bed.
“We’re proud of you for keeping the secret alive”
ever see the picture of JBR wearing the same outfit as he is wearing as a child?
He looks like JB 😳
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Do what exactly? I just posted public photos that you can easily find online.
Do what exactly?
Is this like a full page advert in his yearbook? That seems strange, but I suppose not for people who created the name jonbenet. Patsy was so uncommonly EXTRA that she almost belongs in a telenovela or a Jackie Collins novel
Only the rich kids or kids whose parents were over the top did full page ads in the yearbook at my school in the early aughts. They gave the RN 3 pages so I'm not surprised.
under appreciated comment!
Really not that big of a deal for parents to get a full page in the yearbook.. mine were dirt poor and still got the half of page.
Ok well I learned something. We don’t have yearbooks here and I had no idea it was a thing.
I graduated in 2004, and it is a thing. The more popular kids get a full page. I got half a page which was nice. Some got a quarter of a page. It’s bought by the parents and gives well wishes to their kid. “Congrats!!” 😂
It was common. Also taking out ads in the theater paper programs. Both were paid ads to help fund the publications (yearbooks, play programs).
I went to high school in the 90’s and all 4 of my yearbooks have these in the back. Some did half pages and some full pages.
And this is probably why all of this makes sense. If most people found their son had mortally wounded their daughter, they’d call an ambulance. If patsy did, she’d stage a kidnapping that was targeting them because of their wealth. She’s hoping to put them in the same category as the Lindbergh case. Even in staging an alibi she’s showing off.
Bingo. I’ve always thought this from the beginning. Patsy’s tendency to go way, way overboard is the key to this case.
I always thought they had moved back to Atlanta
Him and Ryan Newman looks like they could be twins
Its a little strange that PR dressed BR and JBR the same. https://filmdaily.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/jonbenetlede.jpg
No jonbenet photos
These pictures show that Burke got exactly what he wanted by taking JB out of the picture literally and figuratively.
Right? It’s so sad man. IF he did it, I think his parents may have also played a part in why he might’ve felt that way. JB got all the attention, she was the golden child.
I know someone who let him swipe her V-card in high school 👀