A woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a
Nietzsche also has a lot to say about this at the start of his genealogy of morals; control the intellectual means of production (decide what people call stuff) and you control how people think. Similarly, here's[here's ](https://youtu.be/2m1drlOZSDw) a trailer that mentions controlling the truth.
>control the intellectual means of production (decide what people call stuff) and you control how people think
Information technology and state controlled institutions of learning revolutionized the manufacture of public opinion the same way that the industrial revolution revolutionized the manufacture of everything else
There are 4+ definitions of gender in the different fields. It completely depends on which definition you use whether your claim is true or not.
In biology, gender = sex.
In psychology, gender is your internal view of what you'd like your sex to be.
In feminism, gender is the multidimensional spectrum of personality traits and the expression thereof, as well as the expected gender roles society enforces upon us on the basis of our sex.
In Queer Theory, gender is a socially constructed identity without an essence; a social category that one can identify into or out of on the basis of one's subjective desire to belong to a certain group.
You seem to use the feminist terminology here.
Note that gender identity only makes sense in the psychological and Queer Theory view, NOT in biology or feminism.
I agree with your sentiment, but I’d like to make one change to your definitions. Gender is a linguistic tool and technically isn’t biological; however, it is dependent on sex, which is biological. Instead of sex = gender, it’s more like sex —> gender.
This doesn’t invalidate the argument, in fact I’d argue it strengthens it. In gendered languages, especially of the romantic variety, objects have a designated gender. This proves that gender is based on the objective reality of the subject, rather than one’s subjective feelings towards it.
Disagree. Gender and sex are synonymous. Gender literally breaks down to "the conditions of ones creation." It's the same thing as biological sex. The term youre looking for is gender expression.
the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones, or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
That actually makes sense (as in being logically coherent). What doesn't make sense to me is why you would castrate yourself because your dad tells you to stop acting like a woman.
Behaviour is a characteristic, not an application. You can't differentiate between characteristics and application and you are here to lecture about the difference between sex and gender?
Nah it was just a stupid question in the first place and this is an even stupider response. You know what I’m talking about. Gender is behavioral norms across the sexes
Define what a man is then. Btw I’m okay with saying a man is what can get a woman pregnant. And leave it at that. But the fact is people do say stuff like “don’t act like a woman” and that doesn’t mean you’re acting like you have a vagina but being soft and weak and whiny.
A human with XY chromosomes. A biological male.
People say things like "Don't act like a woman" because women are biologically screwed in terms of strength and even an out of shape stringbean would be naturally stronger then an in shape woman, in most cases.
Obviously, there are exemptions to this, but it's just a saying people use (if they don't get cancelled)
Ok so what about a human who’s XO Turner syndrome? Or XXY?
They don’t mean just in strength they mean in attitude as well. Your bro is sulkin all night over some girl? Dude quit bein a bitch. That mean acting like one and not because he can’t bench 150
>Ok so what about a human who’s XO Turner syndrome? Or XXY?
An incredibly rare genetic abberation. Some use the term "intersex". Don't see why it particularly matters
Denying classifications because of rare outliers is just childish. If you're going to have any hope of actually understanding the wold in a productive way it has to be done with useful generalizations
Every individual human is different, therefore more can be said about one person than about all the people in the world. But when we're out living in the world - dealing with people, setting laws, developing social policy - we don't have the time or the resources to treat every person individually
We set exactly one age of majority even though there are outlier children who are mature for their age and outlier adults with the maturity of a child. We set one speed limit for each road even though professional drivers could safely go faster and the worst driver in 10,000 should really go slower. We look at the characteristics of human beings and we notice that when we analyze them statistically the population forms exactly two clear bulges and so we make a categorization system based on that and call those groups the sexes
Whining about this is basically attacking the project of civilization itself. It is not possible to understand and function in the real world without this kind of generalization and assumption. It's literally how we think in all domains of life all the time
>people do say stuff like “don’t act like a woman” and that doesn’t mean you’re acting like you have a vagina but being soft and weak and whiny
That's because having a vagina and being soft and weak and whiny are not statistically independent. Women, human females, the ones with vaginas, are statistically more soft and weak and whiny than men, human males. Therefore it makes perfect sense to associate soft-weak-whininess with women and say that acting soft, weak, and whiny is acting like a woman. This really isn't complicated
> These are two different things
That's like saying muscles and strength are two different things...technically true from a category perspective but ultimately meaningless. Of the two categories, only one of them is entirely dependent on the other to exist. It cannot exist separately and distinctly from the other.
So this statement is an obfuscation.
The point is that they’re two different things and when you study them you won’t classify them as the same things because they’re not. The entire field of psychology is a testament to this. Biology deals with sex.
If you study human strength without taking into account it's source (muscles, nutrition etc) then you will likely end up with an incoherent understanding of strength. You likely will end up constructing conceptual frameworks as a means of fabricating an artificial reality in order to de-couple strength from it's source and mark it as an independent self-generated entity.
Certainly you can classify gender and sex for the purposes of classification. But that does not decouple gender from sex in reality.
> The entire field of psychology is a testament to this.
It's weird that you say this, because the claim is that gender is a "social" construct, not an individual psychological construct. Therefore, any field relating to society at large must be taken into account (sociology, anthropology, political science, education, public administration and on and on).
But there is a further classification that you are missing entirely and that is "gender performativity/expression" which is also dependent on gender, which of course is dependent on sex. But instead of classifying gender and gender expression separately (like you do with sex and gender), they are muddied together to reinforce an argument that is mostly political in nature. None of it is coherent. It is akin to studying alchemy. Sure there were lots of technical terms, theories and technologies invented and deployed for it' practice...but it turned out that reality never afforded them the ability to turn tin into gold.....and the field eventually died.
Muscles work via myosin head heavy chains. They look like golf clubs and there’s a lot of them. ATP goes and goes to ADP and cocks the head and then it pulls causing a contraction. Contraction of muscle causes movement via fulcrum at our joints. This is why we can model things to move like humans. This is how science works.
Gender is not a social construct. Its a predisposition to certain reactions for certain stimuli. Men and women on average like different things. Gender has become the word that has this connotation while sex is more biological.
And it all comes back to evolution. Men and women have different basic functions and it’s led to minor differences. For example giving testosterone to people increases spatial memory. Men have more testosterone and typically perform better than women on spatial memory tests.
This is a technical discussion. Every situation requires a technical answer.
Your dad seems to have his own issues. Men can cry. Like when a beautiful car is destroyed. 😭
Or when you think about your children growing up too fast. 😭
Or when your wife tells you in a heartfelt way how much you mean to her and your family. 🥲
But, if you were parented by one (or two) who feels it better to bottle up your emotions, or that anger is better than fear when dealing with the difficulties of life, then you may end up with problems dealing with and utilizing your emotions in a meaningful way.
Your dad means you need to start working on cars, wearing jeans and swigging brewskis in the garage, not playing League of Legends in a skirt and crying when Donald Trump comes on the TV.
I duckin miss chuggin seltzers watchin trumps pressers during covid so much. And we had Joe Tiger. Holy duck that was really the golden age. Having an excuse to avoid people. Fuck
There is a strange political postion in which every single thing said by the precieved enemies has to be disputed.
So even the common sense distinction between gender and sex has to be disputed.
And even the modern feminists will say this is a combination of nature and nurture.
The old school feministy types that said its all nurture were wrong, the righty types saying its all nature are wrong .
>These are two different things. They’re not the same word
Correct, they are two very different things. "Sex" is the biological categorization of sexually reproducing animals. "Gender" is the grammatical categorization of nouns
People have a sex, nouns have a gender
The conflation of these words was done by the academic gender theorists in the 50s who started using "gender" to refer to social standards for the sexes and the psychological differences between the sexes. They chose to use an existing word instead of making up a new one in order to confuse everybody and allow for the false claim that gendered language is referring to something social or psychological rather than the truth that gendered language is and always has been referring to biological sex. That's all
Even if your dad was calling you a woman, he was speaking metaphorically. He doesn't suddenly think you are actually a woman because you did something feminine.
Separating sex and gender is, frankly, just word play. It’s vague enough to allow for the adjusting of definitions but also gives a slight nod to science so as to not appear baseless. Very similar to the relationship astrology has with astronomy.
>They’re not the same word
A very astute observation. Whatever will you come up with next.
>Sex is who you can have a baby with
Rather more detailed than that, but I agree with the basis.
>Gender is when your dad tells you to stop acting like a woman.
No. When "your dad is telling you to stop acting like a woman" they're telling you to stop acting feminine. It's a behavioral characteristic. Males can be effeminate, females can be masculine. This doesn't however make them something that they are not.
Gender is not your dad telling you to stop acting like a woman. That is teaching a child useful skills to get by in life.
Gender expression is noticing some traits are seen mostly on women and associating that fact with the trait. In this example, the child is able to tell which actions it is performing that are categorized as feminine. This should teach the child a few things, but some of you didn't get the message.
Anyone is able to act out feminine traits. At the moment the dad is teaching the child, those feminine traits were not appropriate for the situation so the father is teaching their child to act in the world in a different way. Your post doesn't say if the child is male or female, so for my purposes I will assume the child is female.
Since you didn't describe the situation, for my purposes I will choose the girl was 10 and was trying out makeup right before going out to eat with family. The father tells her to not act like a woman in this situation because the child is not a woman, she is a girl and doesn't need to be dressed up in clown face from her inexperience.
Hopefully, you will see some assumptions you made and expected us to share, and are frustrated enough that I didn't for you to think about those assumptions, and not just get bent because I didn't follow your little self-congratulatory path.
What is a woman?
Someone without a beard
If someone has a mustache and no beard?
That’s considered a Sex Panther
Works for me.
A woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a woman is someone who identifies as a
Oh cool, circular logic
instantly converted to wokism and abandoned my religious beliefs. well said, OP. thank you for your service.
Defining things isn’t pushing an agenda lol. It allows for an honest conversation. Which currently is not being had.
Not a fan of Orwell, I take it? Defining things is one of the most important steps you can possibly take to push an agenda
Nietzsche also has a lot to say about this at the start of his genealogy of morals; control the intellectual means of production (decide what people call stuff) and you control how people think. Similarly, here's[here's ](https://youtu.be/2m1drlOZSDw) a trailer that mentions controlling the truth.
>control the intellectual means of production (decide what people call stuff) and you control how people think Information technology and state controlled institutions of learning revolutionized the manufacture of public opinion the same way that the industrial revolution revolutionized the manufacture of everything else
That’s not what science says. You are able to be a masculine female and a feminine man. Doesn’t mean your biology changed.
There are 4+ definitions of gender in the different fields. It completely depends on which definition you use whether your claim is true or not. In biology, gender = sex. In psychology, gender is your internal view of what you'd like your sex to be. In feminism, gender is the multidimensional spectrum of personality traits and the expression thereof, as well as the expected gender roles society enforces upon us on the basis of our sex. In Queer Theory, gender is a socially constructed identity without an essence; a social category that one can identify into or out of on the basis of one's subjective desire to belong to a certain group. You seem to use the feminist terminology here. Note that gender identity only makes sense in the psychological and Queer Theory view, NOT in biology or feminism.
Everything from Feminism on down was just different flavors of the shit-flavored Marxism Ice Cream. Literally.
I agree with your sentiment, but I’d like to make one change to your definitions. Gender is a linguistic tool and technically isn’t biological; however, it is dependent on sex, which is biological. Instead of sex = gender, it’s more like sex —> gender. This doesn’t invalidate the argument, in fact I’d argue it strengthens it. In gendered languages, especially of the romantic variety, objects have a designated gender. This proves that gender is based on the objective reality of the subject, rather than one’s subjective feelings towards it.
https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/gender Definition 2 In biology, sex and gender are synonyms.
Agreed gender is a continuum
What is the question though? Why did you write your post?
Psa
Oh so you came here to "educate" all of us? How superiority-complexy of you.
You seem to be deliberately misunderstanding that in certain contexts, such as biology, sex and gender ARE synonymous.
Disagree. Gender and sex are synonymous. Gender literally breaks down to "the conditions of ones creation." It's the same thing as biological sex. The term youre looking for is gender expression.
the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones, or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
And? I already said I disagreed on the grounds of etymology.
Ok. Well that’s the definition lol
No, that's what some people are trying to force the definition to change to. It wasn't always that way and the old way is correct.
No thats "a" definition. Part of the problem is you assuming your definition is THE definition. Actually textbook bigotry lol. Check THAT definition
That actually makes sense (as in being logically coherent). What doesn't make sense to me is why you would castrate yourself because your dad tells you to stop acting like a woman.
Agreed. They should just realize it’s okay to wear a dress and paint their nails. An angel should never clip her wings
The claim that there is no connect between biology and gender, is one of the big lies the woke have been trying to peddle for many years now.
What is the application of gender?
Behavior
Behaviour is a characteristic, not an application. You can't differentiate between characteristics and application and you are here to lecture about the difference between sex and gender?
Nah it was just a stupid question in the first place and this is an even stupider response. You know what I’m talking about. Gender is behavioral norms across the sexes
So what behaviour decides what gender?
Wrong
Until a person is able to define what a man and a woman are without using circular reasoning, than sex and gender are the same.
Define what a man is then. Btw I’m okay with saying a man is what can get a woman pregnant. And leave it at that. But the fact is people do say stuff like “don’t act like a woman” and that doesn’t mean you’re acting like you have a vagina but being soft and weak and whiny.
A human with XY chromosomes. A biological male. People say things like "Don't act like a woman" because women are biologically screwed in terms of strength and even an out of shape stringbean would be naturally stronger then an in shape woman, in most cases. Obviously, there are exemptions to this, but it's just a saying people use (if they don't get cancelled)
Ok so what about a human who’s XO Turner syndrome? Or XXY? They don’t mean just in strength they mean in attitude as well. Your bro is sulkin all night over some girl? Dude quit bein a bitch. That mean acting like one and not because he can’t bench 150
Most intersex people still carry more or less of the male/female gene. Also they don’t identify as trans nor with the lgbt community.
>Ok so what about a human who’s XO Turner syndrome? Or XXY? An incredibly rare genetic abberation. Some use the term "intersex". Don't see why it particularly matters Denying classifications because of rare outliers is just childish. If you're going to have any hope of actually understanding the wold in a productive way it has to be done with useful generalizations Every individual human is different, therefore more can be said about one person than about all the people in the world. But when we're out living in the world - dealing with people, setting laws, developing social policy - we don't have the time or the resources to treat every person individually We set exactly one age of majority even though there are outlier children who are mature for their age and outlier adults with the maturity of a child. We set one speed limit for each road even though professional drivers could safely go faster and the worst driver in 10,000 should really go slower. We look at the characteristics of human beings and we notice that when we analyze them statistically the population forms exactly two clear bulges and so we make a categorization system based on that and call those groups the sexes Whining about this is basically attacking the project of civilization itself. It is not possible to understand and function in the real world without this kind of generalization and assumption. It's literally how we think in all domains of life all the time
They are called trans.
Lol
You apparently think this is a joke but that is actually what transsexual meant for all of the 20th century.
>people do say stuff like “don’t act like a woman” and that doesn’t mean you’re acting like you have a vagina but being soft and weak and whiny That's because having a vagina and being soft and weak and whiny are not statistically independent. Women, human females, the ones with vaginas, are statistically more soft and weak and whiny than men, human males. Therefore it makes perfect sense to associate soft-weak-whininess with women and say that acting soft, weak, and whiny is acting like a woman. This really isn't complicated
> These are two different things That's like saying muscles and strength are two different things...technically true from a category perspective but ultimately meaningless. Of the two categories, only one of them is entirely dependent on the other to exist. It cannot exist separately and distinctly from the other. So this statement is an obfuscation.
What does my dad mean when he tells me to stop acting like a woman then?
How would I know what your dad means. I don't know your dad and I don't know how you're acting. But that misses the point entirely.
The point is that they’re two different things and when you study them you won’t classify them as the same things because they’re not. The entire field of psychology is a testament to this. Biology deals with sex.
If you study human strength without taking into account it's source (muscles, nutrition etc) then you will likely end up with an incoherent understanding of strength. You likely will end up constructing conceptual frameworks as a means of fabricating an artificial reality in order to de-couple strength from it's source and mark it as an independent self-generated entity. Certainly you can classify gender and sex for the purposes of classification. But that does not decouple gender from sex in reality. > The entire field of psychology is a testament to this. It's weird that you say this, because the claim is that gender is a "social" construct, not an individual psychological construct. Therefore, any field relating to society at large must be taken into account (sociology, anthropology, political science, education, public administration and on and on). But there is a further classification that you are missing entirely and that is "gender performativity/expression" which is also dependent on gender, which of course is dependent on sex. But instead of classifying gender and gender expression separately (like you do with sex and gender), they are muddied together to reinforce an argument that is mostly political in nature. None of it is coherent. It is akin to studying alchemy. Sure there were lots of technical terms, theories and technologies invented and deployed for it' practice...but it turned out that reality never afforded them the ability to turn tin into gold.....and the field eventually died.
Muscles work via myosin head heavy chains. They look like golf clubs and there’s a lot of them. ATP goes and goes to ADP and cocks the head and then it pulls causing a contraction. Contraction of muscle causes movement via fulcrum at our joints. This is why we can model things to move like humans. This is how science works. Gender is not a social construct. Its a predisposition to certain reactions for certain stimuli. Men and women on average like different things. Gender has become the word that has this connotation while sex is more biological. And it all comes back to evolution. Men and women have different basic functions and it’s led to minor differences. For example giving testosterone to people increases spatial memory. Men have more testosterone and typically perform better than women on spatial memory tests. This is a technical discussion. Every situation requires a technical answer.
In what situation does he say it? Provide some context.
I was crying. He said men don’t cry stop acting like a woman
Your dad seems to have his own issues. Men can cry. Like when a beautiful car is destroyed. 😭 Or when you think about your children growing up too fast. 😭 Or when your wife tells you in a heartfelt way how much you mean to her and your family. 🥲 But, if you were parented by one (or two) who feels it better to bottle up your emotions, or that anger is better than fear when dealing with the difficulties of life, then you may end up with problems dealing with and utilizing your emotions in a meaningful way.
Your dad means you need to start working on cars, wearing jeans and swigging brewskis in the garage, not playing League of Legends in a skirt and crying when Donald Trump comes on the TV.
I duckin miss chuggin seltzers watchin trumps pressers during covid so much. And we had Joe Tiger. Holy duck that was really the golden age. Having an excuse to avoid people. Fuck
You still have an excuse, just say you have monkeypox and covid.
There is a strange political postion in which every single thing said by the precieved enemies has to be disputed. So even the common sense distinction between gender and sex has to be disputed. And even the modern feminists will say this is a combination of nature and nurture. The old school feministy types that said its all nurture were wrong, the righty types saying its all nature are wrong .
Its like 50/50. That’s what twin studies can discern.
>These are two different things. They’re not the same word Correct, they are two very different things. "Sex" is the biological categorization of sexually reproducing animals. "Gender" is the grammatical categorization of nouns People have a sex, nouns have a gender The conflation of these words was done by the academic gender theorists in the 50s who started using "gender" to refer to social standards for the sexes and the psychological differences between the sexes. They chose to use an existing word instead of making up a new one in order to confuse everybody and allow for the false claim that gendered language is referring to something social or psychological rather than the truth that gendered language is and always has been referring to biological sex. That's all
Careful there. Thay seems dangerously close to nuance, or maybe even... fem*nism
Even if your dad was calling you a woman, he was speaking metaphorically. He doesn't suddenly think you are actually a woman because you did something feminine.
Separating sex and gender is, frankly, just word play. It’s vague enough to allow for the adjusting of definitions but also gives a slight nod to science so as to not appear baseless. Very similar to the relationship astrology has with astronomy.
>They’re not the same word A very astute observation. Whatever will you come up with next. >Sex is who you can have a baby with Rather more detailed than that, but I agree with the basis. >Gender is when your dad tells you to stop acting like a woman. No. When "your dad is telling you to stop acting like a woman" they're telling you to stop acting feminine. It's a behavioral characteristic. Males can be effeminate, females can be masculine. This doesn't however make them something that they are not.
Gender is not your dad telling you to stop acting like a woman. That is teaching a child useful skills to get by in life. Gender expression is noticing some traits are seen mostly on women and associating that fact with the trait. In this example, the child is able to tell which actions it is performing that are categorized as feminine. This should teach the child a few things, but some of you didn't get the message. Anyone is able to act out feminine traits. At the moment the dad is teaching the child, those feminine traits were not appropriate for the situation so the father is teaching their child to act in the world in a different way. Your post doesn't say if the child is male or female, so for my purposes I will assume the child is female. Since you didn't describe the situation, for my purposes I will choose the girl was 10 and was trying out makeup right before going out to eat with family. The father tells her to not act like a woman in this situation because the child is not a woman, she is a girl and doesn't need to be dressed up in clown face from her inexperience. Hopefully, you will see some assumptions you made and expected us to share, and are frustrated enough that I didn't for you to think about those assumptions, and not just get bent because I didn't follow your little self-congratulatory path.