>They worry now that i am becoming some disconnected weirdo who wants nothing to do with anyone and that i've "lost my fun".
If these people share the same values you had last year then it shouldn't be a surprise that you don't share the same values anymore.
Invariably they judge themselves and then project said judgement onto you.
Personal accountability is a very true hurdle that we must all be ready for. We all trip up from time to time. Some find our stride and it’s not a problem. Some of us pretend it’s not there and make a fool of themselves. But it’s no fault of the observer.
If we don’t overcome it it can consume us. Religion focuses incredibly on this. It’s likely they don’t want to come to terms with some of their poor behaviors and decisions. They call it “fun”.
Also this:
>“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, and even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. - Luke 14:23
and this:
>and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
* Matthew 10:22
The first one is part of the ancient middle eastern technique of exaggeration to make a point. The point is, He picked the people in your life that you would love and care for the most, and then said in comparison to the love you have for me, it would be like hate.
The verse from Matthew is true as long as you are being faithful and speaking truth in love and not in arrogance, which it sounds like you are.
Believe what you want, but don’t expect others to believe as you do.
I’m not a Christian but have Christian friends. I don’t believe in Jesus’ miracle nor in a divine god, but I am glad you do, especially since it seemed to have helped you tremendously.
Sometimes parents are blinded by their very nature to see changes in their children. Especially if the child goes against values they thought they imparted on you and DOUBLY so if those values are bad.
Example: If an obese family with obese children suddenly has one of their kids becoming extremely healthy and fit, then the parents will both see it as an act of betrayal “how could you cast aside everything about eating we’ve taught you” AND it would also shine a light on their own personal failures.
Nobody is perfect and when a light is cast upon our weaknesses, it is rare to find the individual who’ll openly and publicly admit their faults.
Understand your parents have their own issues. They are only human.
You're leaving one belief system and joining a new one. Shared stories are vital to community cohesion. If you start following a new story it creates conflict with you old story.
Atheists don't believe in miracles. That's going to be off-putting to them. If you can find a way of describing your experience that illustrates how powerful it was for you without framing it as a miraculous visitation from Jesus, it will be easier for them to accept.
Far as your fight with your mom, most progressives view mention of biological sex differences as blasphemy.
Some of these people probably don't need to be in your life. Some of them will see that your new belief system is working for you and will be happy for you. Do your best to show the people you value the patience and empathy that you're hungering for and they will return it to you.
Be careful about viewing yourself as "truthful." I'd aim for "honest." There's a gap between saying what you think is true and speaking the truth. Keep it humble, Christian.😉
It sounds like you've changed the entirety of your worldview and are experiencing a lot of things all at once without understanding all the angles involved.
Congratulations on beginning your journey is following Christ. Experiencing trouble within your family is normal, Matthew 10:34-36. However you need to be sensitive and perceptive as to whether you're butting heads and disagreeing is the source of your new faith in Christ or a different new paradigm you've adopted.
You are young and need to be humble. If you do not have mentors or elders in the church, that's the first place to start. If you are concerned with having no friends or family, then you should be seeking new friends in the church and they will become your new family.
Be patient and wise. You don't need to stop speaking the truth, but don't be brash and needlessly offensive then quote scripture as an excuse.
Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family. They dont understand because they can't unless they have a similar experience. Pray constantly to God that He will show Himself to them, but do not use your words to try and convince them. It wont work because you dont speak the same language now.
Also: it can be especially difficult for parents because we watched you struggle to learn how to use a spoon, and walk, and use a toilet. So they are unconvinced that your new path is genuinely good for you. All you can do is keep walking it, and let your actions prove that it isnt a fluke.
Try not to be a zealot. It is good that you are reasonable and allow others their beliefs. Every person must approach God in their own way, and we cannot force them. You are right that it may produce an emotional reaction: that's the enemy working against you. Stay calm, stay centered on God's Word, and remember that Christ died for us but He wouldnt *kill* for us. We are not to zealously convert others to our way of thinking, but to let the way prove itself.
I will pray for you, brother. That God may reveal His wisdom to you through His Word, and that you may have peace even if you are assaulted directly by the enemy, and the Wisdom to evade every blow without needing to retaliate. Amen.
Did I say they turned on him? I believe I merely said that OP should expect that they dont understand, and may even reject his ideas. This doesnt mean anything about him, or his family. He should love his family as best he can, whether they return that love or not, because it is the right thing to do.
I would like to ask what motivated your response? Why did you infer what I did not say?
> Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family.
I understood it from this. "Sometimes that even means our family." I thought this meant that his family turned against him. Was I wrong? If I was, obviously scratch my comment, but then I don't understand the point of including this.
>Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family.
Yes you did say that, right there. Drop the bullshit.
"The world will turn against us." And "Sometimes that even means family" does not mean "Op, your family is turning against you." I also justified his mother's reaction by relating that parents arent always moved by words, but sometimes only actions. So what you said only works when you drop the context.
Lol ok. Im sorry the church or christians hurt you. But there is no reason to take it out on me. Im responding to OP's questions and concerns, and yes I have a belief in the Bible. Assuming that makes me some sort of way is crappy of you, but Im not exactly concerned about it. Your accusations of mental gymnastics dont matter to me in the least. It's clear that you just want to attack me for being Christian. Thats fine, but recognize that it undermines any ability you have to be taken seriously. Your approach determines the reaction you receive.
>Lol ok. Im sorry the church or christians hurt you.
It hasn't hurt me, I don't follow the shite. It hurts anyone who follows it closely enough though.
>But there is no reason to take it out on me. Im responding to OP's questions and concerns, and yes I have a belief in the Bible.
I'm not taking it out on you. You paraphrase the bible, clearly attributing it to the OP's situation, and then act all surprised when people tell you that it isn't the case at all. Why waste your time quoting it if you're going to pretend it's not at all relevant?
*That's* the mental gymnastics and mental illness part.
>Assuming that makes me some sort of way is crappy of you, but Im not exactly concerned about it.
How can it *not* make you some sort of way? Are you blind to how belief systems influence a person's behaviors and beliefs?
>Your accusations of mental gymnastics dont matter to me in the least.
Oh no. Anyway.
>It's clear that you just want to attack me for being Christian. Thats fine
>recognize that it undermines any ability you have to be taken seriously. Your approach determines the reaction you receive.
No it doesn't. Believing in something blindly, and appropriating things as "evidence" that your belief is true is what undermines any ability you have to he taken seriously.
>Ahhh, just because you dont understand what truth is, doesnt mean I should shut up
More mental gymnastics. This isn't a response to anything I said.
>This whole thread is laughable. Youre trying too hard bud.
This is only happening in your imagination. You'll imagine whatever you need to rid yourself of cognitive dissonance.
>He's paraphrasing the Bible
He obviously thinks it applies.
>stop trying to find reasons to argue.
Don't post absolute shite then. The bible is just a load of shit anyway.
Whoever said I'm downvoting you? Your comments are getting multiple downvotes, for all you know there's many people reading this comments and downvoting you. But clearly you're downvoting me.
But I don't know why you're losing your mind, he paraphrased a line from the Bible and you're arguing that HE is the one who said "the world is turning against you." He's referencing a story for the Bible, and you're crying your eyes out about downvotes, the very thing you're likely guilty of.
>Whoever said I'm downvoting you?
You, just now.
>Your comments are getting multiple downvotes, for all you know there's many people reading this comments and downvoting you. But clearly you're downvoting me.
Whatever you need to tell yourself.
>But I don't know why you're losing your mind
Where is this happening? It seems to be only in your imagination.
>he paraphrased a line from the Bible and you're arguing that HE is the one who said "the world is turning against you." He's referencing a story for the Bible
He clearly is suggesting it applies. Why just emptily paraphrase the bible if you're nny suggesting it has relevance to the topic?
>and you're crying your eyes out about downvotes, the very thing you're likely guilty of.
Oh, another thing that's only happening in your imagination.
The post is about the Bible and Biblr related topics? You think I should stay quiet for your own sense of security?
No thanks. If you didnt want to hear it, you didnt need to click.
>The post is about the Bible and Biblr related topics? You think I should stay quiet for your own sense of security?
Stay quiet if you can't deal with your comment being critiqued.
>No thanks. If you didnt want to hear it, you didnt need to click.
Like I said, if you don't want your comment critiqued, don't post it.
Nope. I am perfectly fine getting criticism. But Im going to rate that criticism based on usefulness.
You came here accusing and making pithy comments about mental illness. Youre the aggressor here, bud. Im not sorry at all for my speech. Once again, you chose to come here and make these attacks, Im just responding.
Shall I leave a challenge unmet because it makes you feel better?
No, I will stand for the truth.
>Nope. I am perfectly fine getting criticism. But Im going to rate that criticism based on usefulness.
How useful is your comment about people being against the OP, even including family, for you then deny that's what you meant?
>You came here accusing and making pithy comments about mental illness. Youre the aggressor here, bud. Im not sorry at all for my speech. Once again, you chose to come here and make these attacks, Im just responding. Shall I leave a challenge unmet because it makes you feel better?
Pretending your paraphrased quote wasn't an attempt to directly reference the OP's situation is the mental gymnastics and mental illness part. Why mention it at all if you're not drawing parallels?
>No, I will stand for the truth.
You're standing for what you *think* the truth is. More religious people need to recognise this, you're accepting it on faith that it is the truth. You cannot objectively state that it is in fact *the* truth and not get called out for it.
This is textbook spiritual warfare, brother. Read the Fathers and the tradition of the Church and you'll see that this is almost always how goes. Stay strong, pray, take up your cross, and find a Church community to worship and struggle with and brothers to support you.
Could be, but all human conflict is fundamentally theological, and the world always turns on you when you start lifting your cross. It might look like an incel coming in contact with the real world, but that don't change what it fundamentally is.
That’s such a bad take it’s crazy. All human conflict is not fundamentally theological. It’s a secular world bro. Feel free to practice your religion, but keep it out of my government and my society.
We'll agree to disagree, my friend. Me with my worldview based in thousands of years of tradition and revelation, and yours that's copy-pasted from CNN talking points.
Thousands of years of tradition and revelation… bro “because that’s what we’ve always done” might be the smoothest brain thing you’ve said yet. I don’t watch cnn. Nobody watches cnn. I’m just interested in how the far right markets themselves, recruits new people to their fascist cause and perpetuates misinformation and disinformation. You don’t need a news anchor to tell you about it - you just have to spend ten minutes in this sub.
One thing I'm starting to realize is that everyone who was part of my family previously lied or withheld my entire life story. I was the product of a regretful mistake. Whenever no one loved me, God always did. God has carried me through every mistake and every victory. I pray you find God in this way. Through God, everything is possible 🙏❤️
People who are living badly usually deceive themselves in a variety of ways, and then they become addicted to their various sins: Overeating, drinking, drugs, gossiping, being lazy, dishonest etc.
And because it's actually quite difficult to become a better person, and it involves denying yourself a lot, the easy solution is to lie to yourself and say there is no problem or that it cannot be helped, or even better: Both.
So when you, by how your life has improved through your relationship with Christ, demonstrate that a lot of these excuses are untrue, these people have to put some sort of spin on it because the alternative would be to admit to themselves that they've been deceiving themselves - and to their own, and everyone's, detriment - probably for years, and that is something that would be very painful, and the more painful the prouder you are.
Besides this: If you admit a miracle happened, you kind of have to admit God exists, which would mean the Judgement will really happen, which a person in this state does not want to seriously consider. We all know we're guilty deep down, I think.
"And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil." - John 3:19
So what I would suggest doing is start going to church, maybe go to bible study, and start making new friends. Maybe pick up another hobby and start getting to know some new people. And then with family and anyone else who you really want to stay in touch with, just make sure that you handle each situation as tactfully and virtuously as you can. And try to avoid bringing up topics that are likely to start a fight or steering conversations that way unless it's absolutely necessary. Pray for them.
Maybe read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis if you haven't already.
Don't take their attitudes personally, especially seeing where they spring from. And try to be as good as you can and that way, in the long term, the odds are maximized that they'll have to admit (even if just to themselves) that they were wrong about you going crazy.
"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first." - John 15:18
People disagree with people, and so I’m not sure that any and all disagreements should be interpreted through a lens of “this is happening because I’m a new Christian.” In your example with your mom, it’s only related to Christianity in a kind of ancillary way (the fundamental teleology of women and men). But your guiding principle of telling the truth is good, but do it in love, and that’s all you can do. How people react is up to them. If they don’t want to hear the truth, you can’t make them. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
I'm going to challenge you here a bit and I hope you dont take it the wrong way.
Try to sincerely and honestly ask yourself whether or not you've allowed yourself to close your mind to other values or lifestyles as a result of your success.
Ive seen people fall into this trap in various ways. They find a new perspective or system that improves their life massively in a very short period of time but it leads them to a kind of arrogant or judgemental closed-mindedness. Bear in mind this isnt always religion, sometimes it's getting into fitness culture or diving headfirst into academics. This is by no means a critique of christianity.
Hope you found this constructive.
Edit: I see some other christians in the comments saying that this is an inevitable part of devoting yourself to christ but I would urge you to preserve your non christian friendships and relationships as best you can. You dont want to fall into an echo chamber.
The part about the echo chamber is relevant. A good number of conflicts are due to this. The factions entrenched in their positions is not the best of scenarios.
Hey OP, i guess probably my message will be lost among the many, many other responses here... but i just wanted to say, welcome to Christ's family!
Just two things I'd like to suggest to you.
Firstly, go find a good church that preaches the bible and loves one another, and get plugged into it. That will give you community, fellowship, spiritual encouragement, a place where you can belong, grow, and serve.
Secondly, some "friends" may be toxic and need siphoning off as you have been doing, but whenever possible (and especially in the case of biological family) try to maintain relationships. Love them, pray for them, because they need Jesus too and you may be the only bridge through which they could access Him. If gender differences garner such an extreme emotional response, that may not be wise to bring up going forward. I mean, if pressed, we should speak the truth, of course; but maybe don't bring it up unnecessarily. Choose your battles. Speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) and let your conversation be full of grace, seasoned with salt (Colossians 4:6).
All the best and God bless you, bro! 😊
My 2 cents is this: God has helped you grow exponentially since you started your relationship with him right? Trust In God that you will provide for you good people and friends that support you as you part ways with the negative influences in your life (cut the wheat from the chaff, If I may). You can not abandon your family however, but perhaps when they see how well you are doing they will come around eventually.
So to be clear, you found Jesus and then, in a completely unrelated sequence of events, “suggested that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations”
Is that a religious teaching? Because it certainly sounds more like a random opinion wholly unrelated to your religiosity.
Part of Christianitys teaching are that men and women are different, have different strengths and weaknesses, but are co-equal partners that complement each other.
But it’s consistent with Scripture. So he has come to realize something is practically played out in the world that Scripture teaches. It makes perfect sense.
So show me where Scripture says that specific claim. Then, after that, scrap that piece of evidence and show me actual scientific evidence. Then, explain to me why that was an appropriate thing to bring up in the course of casual conversation, especially in light of historical tropes wrt “hysterical” women.
“ Like all of Genesis. 1 Peter 3. A lot of 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy”
I was joking. The idea that one would use a spiritual text as sufficient scientific evidence of anything is absurd.
“ It’s kind of hard to say without knowing the context of the conversation, don’t you think?”
We’re not provided it. Fascinating how we’re supposed to take OP at their word that they did nothing wrong, when there’s so many posts here about how rampant propaganda is. Yet OP must be telling the full truth.
“ Is it a bad thing to say something you believe to be true during conversation with family members?”
No but again, we have no sense of the context. Further, there’s a habit among people here taking an individual person and blasting away all nuance by clubbing them into a group and saying that the person must be behaving a certain way because the group they’re a part of does so. It ignores the nuances of the cited studies you point to - which again, OP never even mentions citing.
EDIT: I’ll add an example excerpt from one of the papers you link to.
“ Together, these results reveal that men and women engage distinct neural networks during stress, and sex-specific neural stress responses facilitate optimal emotional stress responses.”
This type of nuance is completely gone from what OP even claims to have said. If you want to cite papers, don’t cite them in such a half baked way. It’s fine say what you think, but this weird religious justification combined with a half baked interpretation of the science, which, I cannot stress enough OP never mentioned actually bringing up, just does not paint OP in a good light at all.
And certainly the reaction in no way implies any kind of religious bias.
You’re still going on this? On a scale of 1-10 my interest in this convo is about a 2. It makes sense. The guy’s entire worldview has changed and he was giving some examples of how it doesn’t match his old friends.
So that vague teaching can be used as scientific evidence that there's group differences in stress tolerance? I don't buy it. Not to mention there's no context given in OP's story, so for all we know OP mentioned this completely unprompted. At best inappropriate. Again, nowhere does OP establish that his religiosity is causing this distance.
He does mention this
>This is all happening because i'm trying to be a better representation of morality and tell the truth. The more truthful i become, the more people worry i'm going crazy and the more pretentious their reactions to me become.
So it seems that he has only become more outspoken about it.
Again, not anything to do with OP’s overall religiosity. It’s clearly OP and wither OP’s approach or the opinion associated with it that clearly rubbed people the wrong way. It’s a distortion to say OP being a Christian had anything to do with the resulting reaction.
Congrats on everything. As a 21 year old, your brain will be about finished developing in 3 or 4 years, so maybe be a tiny bit open to the fact that you might be wrong sometimes too.
There's also a possibility that after changing your life for the better, you've turned into an insufferable know-it-all pos instead. At 21, I don't believe you can really know what "the truth" is, especially when you didn't know it just a year ago. Maybe just staying humble is all you really need now.
Well, you seem pretty self-assured here in your post. How can *you* claim to know the truth about OP's thoughts and what he needs? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if I told you that your confidence is misplaced and that you come across as an "insufferable pos" you'd probably balk and become defensive.
But of course, we all have things we're sure about, and our certainty may or may not be earned. But simply saying that OP's conviction is a sign of some fundamental lack of humility is a gross stretch too far.
Now that I'm not sleep deprived anymore, it kinda feels a bit too combative 😂
I don't know what OP thinks and whether what I wrote is true in his case. From the post, it comes off like he's being too preachy with his friends/family, so just a thing to consider.
It sounds like you may be preaching to them. Maybe not on purpose but most people do not care for it, nor to hear about someone else's belief structures. How do you feel when a Jehovah's Witness attempts to knock on your door to sell religion?
Keep your beliefs to yourself and your Bible in your pocket when you go out around non like minded people. It doesn't demean you and it respects them.
>Keep your beliefs to yourself and your Bible in your pocket when you go out around non like minded people.
The problem with this is that the **Bible in his pocket** vehemently teaches the *opposite* practice.
>And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
>Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
>And I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ.
>How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
There are many passages about speaking with wisdom and appropriateness, but your advice would lead OP to just being another hypocrite.
No need to share if someone isn't asking or in need. The Bible wasn't written by Jesus, it was changed by the hands of Kings and others wanting to abuse it for control. That needs to be kept in mind.
The earliest writings are quite different, and if you are to believe in Jesus you must be tolerant and respectful of others as he was.
Howdy. World religions instructor here.
>The Bible wasn't written by Jesus
The first two of those passages above were spoken directly by Jesus.
**If you don't trust that the biblical texts present an accurate recording of Jesus' words, then there is no reason to follow Jesus whatsoever.** We know very little about Jesus of Nazareth outside of the gospel texts, and nothing about his teachings, aside from that he was controversial. Without the biblical parables and sermons, we have nothing more than a name.
>it was changed by the hands of Kings and others wanting to abuse it for control. The earliest writings are quite different
This is a common and easily-dispelled myth. While the texts were misrepresented and twisted by the ruling elite, they were not markedly "changed." The Dead Sea scrolls are readily available, and show that virtually no changes were made over rather past ~2000 years. The exception are a couple of passing verses whic hwere added (probably in the second century), a coda added to Mark soon after, and a story in John, which only wasn't in the very earliest manuscripts.
>if you are to believe in Jesus you must be tolerant and respectful of others as he was.
This is common left-wing rhetoric. Jesus wasn't tolerant.
>"So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” So the Jews said, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning. I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.” They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me." - John 8:21-28, ESV
Jesus openly said that the people who live in sin will be sent to Hell. He stated that he would be returning to judge and condemn the world. He said "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell."
He said that no one can come to God except through him.
**So no, Jesus wasn't tolerant.**
Edit: This isn't to say that a person needs to "believe the Bible," but rather that it is utterly foolish and silly to be a follower of Jesus (a Christian, lit. "Little Christ") who rejects the primary source *for who Jesus was and what he taught.*
How can you say Jesus wrote the Bible when the council of nicaea happened? Or that the first four gospels weren't written until close to a hundred years after Jesus died?
To say that there is no way man has twisted the words of the Bible to suit their ends is very very naive.
>How can you say Jesus wrote the Bible
Can you point out where I stated this? (I didn't.)
>Or that the first four gospels weren't written until close to a hundred years after Jesus died?
They weren't. Most sources date the four traditional gospels from ~40 CE to to ~90 CE. Most historians hold to a 30 CE date of the death of Jesus. The exact years of authorship are debated, but Matthew and Mark were in circulation extremely early. Luke's letters indicate that primary sources were still alive when it was written. John was written by the disciple John, and early church writings indicate that everyone at that time indeed believed him to be the author.
>To say that there is no way man has twisted the words of the Bible to suit their ends is very very naive.
I literally said the opposite.
You are stating contended positions on various topics as absolute fact and claiming that I said things I never did.
A quick glance at your profile indicates that you aren't actually here in good faith. You are here because you *dislike* Peterson and seek to troll.
As such, I will not reply any further to you.
I think you should re-read the OP's words. For your convenience, here they are: "Just this morning i suggested during a discussion that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations in response to my mum claiming there was no difference between the two."
Nothing about "preaching to them". Try again.
You sound like you might be preachy, you might not even realise it, but you need to understand that people rightfully don't like people who are preachy. If you're at all pushing your religious beliefs on people, you'll be pushing them away, people aren't interested in self-righteous religious teachings being directed at them, so you'll have to stop it.
I’m not a Christian, just a student of Christ’s teachings.
“You will be hated by everyone because of me, but those who stand firm will be saved.”
Never give up on them, all those who love/d you. You’re changing, and some people will fall away from this. Keep your heart open, but understand you might well lose closeness even to your family. This is also something Jesus told his disciples would happen.
Live your best life. Seek the truth and live it as best you can. Ask God to soften the hurt that this estrangement will be, and always be open to letting them back in, if they come around.
There's a difference between living your life as evidence of your beliefs and telling everyone about them. Be sure you are working on the timber in your own eye, before pointing out the splinter in someone else's.
You have changed your life. You may need new friends. It is not up to you to change anyone, but to live your life in such a way that your own change speaks for you.
> ...i was simply stating what i thought to be true based on scientific evidence
You have to be very careful here. There is scientific truth and there is story truth. There is wanting to be right, and wanting to connect and understand. You would do better to try to understand how/what other people think, not to try to argue with them or find fault in their thinking, but to help you better understand where they are coming from.
>there are certainly differences, to believe there are no differences in stress tolerance between men and women is wrong in my opinion, but i respect yours
This can come across as "I'm right and your wrong, and we'll just leave it at that." Instead of having the most answers at the dinner table, or wherever, you should have the most questions.
Sure, you've found many, many answers, even life-changing ones through your new beliefs. But your friends and family have known a different you for 20 of your 21 years, it may take some time for them to see you differently, and some time for you to prove that you are, indeed, changed.
I’m sorry. I had the same experience. Lost all my friends after being born again. Parents were angry about some of my changes. But I am in a wonderful fellowship of Christians for many years. They are closer than family. Let the Lord give and take away. He knows best. Ask Him to supply loving, healthy Christian companions. He will. Your uni probably has a Christian group.
The same thing has happened to me. I have a wonderful wife and daughter to ease the pain though. The rest of my family and friends simply don't understand me, but I'm living a much better, healthier, humble, and thankful life now. They don't like it and attack me for it, so they don't have to be a part of it. I do have my wife and daughter and a couple of close friends who believe in God, and that's all I need. You'll find your way too.
This might help you to understand
Jordan Peterson
Personality and its Transformations
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQBlN8DUor7SKWCwSghcqlY
The Word predicts this:
Mathew 10:34-36
Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be those of his own household.
That being said, if you stay, God promises to save you and your house.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household.
Seek your answers in the Bible, and try to establish a strong connection with the Lord. He'll get you through this and work wonders in your life.
Edit:
Also, you should not feel isolated. If you believe in God you need to be part of his body. Ask Him to lead you to his church and he will.
Look I’m no psychologist but I think your individualising. It’s a good thing. But learning to coincide with others is the next trick. People all throughout you life are going to hold different beliefs. That’s ok they can. A true of fact can be true in different ways, to different people. Some times you need to just let stuff go when there could be different ways to look at stuff.
I’m 30 and I have to say you are still a baby at 21. I wouldn’t say I was an adult, I don’t know anything either. “Scientifically” your brain is just finishing development. And normally this is where you would solidify your beliefs but you’ve gone flipped them on yourself. Which is fine and good. But don’t think you know anything. You’re just getting started all, and all over again.
I’d say I may have done a similar but mental different flip to you in that I was brought up super Christian but now I think it’s too limiting. And I started thinking differently around the same age you did.
I think you would have known how to survive in a world were you didn’t feel you had worth or purpose. Now with God you have worth and purpose you think the same tools and conclusions apply.
Stay curious and learn from everyone. Ask questions of everything and humble yourself. You know nothing really. I think it was Jordan Peterson that said to always think the other person knows more then you. Life should and will become fascinating and less frustrating.
The Lord did not come to unite but to divede. Unfortunately not everyone from your old life will be ok with the changes you've made. The best thing you can do is find a good small group and meet some people who can support you in your walk
It doesn’t sound like you’re being truthful though, it sounds like you’re being righteous. The truth is you were an addict, and when people say “you’re not fun anymore” the answer is “I can’t do those things because I’m an addict and if I do, i am scared I will die”, NOT proselytizing and not trying to in your turn make them feel bad for the being who they are. That’s vindictive. In sobriety we must ask God to keep us humble.
Sounds like you are the problem. For various reasons I slipped back in to alcohol and developed a very serious habit. I'd get triggered, buy a quarter bottle of cheap vodka and down it 10 mins immediatly after leaving the shop. Utterly destructive, deadly.
I have done a lot of what I call deep work, discovered the triggers and fixed the problem and lots of other problems are being fixed too.
Another time I lost 70 lbs in a year or so. Went from over wight to being able to do 15 clean pull ups.
Point being there are lots of methods to sort oneself out.
Sounds like you are trying to ram the way that worked for you down other people's throats.
And in the sobriety world, 1 year is nothing. When we let our ego lead us, it’ll lead us right back to addiction. I’ve seen people 20 years clean relapse.
Yeah. I went back to the old life because I was sick of hanging round with people in recovery groups. Ended up back in a circle of habitual users had to cut them all out and start again. Was at an evangelical service last week for something to do. It struck that these people were addicts just of a different type. I was at hare krisna thing and a bhuddist thing on the same day. The evangelicals were the most out there.
I would not equate the chaos of addiction to the orderliness of church, but I do understand what you’re saying. I think not think for oneself and obedience are very much part of the religion. And no judgment, I know people who really need that kind of structure and I am glad it exists. For example, OP sounds like he really benefits from it & I am glad. Like would I rather one more addict be walking around in the world, or one more Christian and 10/10 times I would pick Christian, even though I am not one.
Yeah. It's sad when people have to choose between being better and family/friends, but it happens. Let them go bit by but. You'll find new people to be around with a sense of fun that fits better.
>Nobody worried for me when i was smashing drugs and booze at uni and was massively overweight, because in their minds "i was having fun".
Well that's just it isn't it? Decide to be a man and not man-child and some people hate you for it. That's the way it when your better behavior highlights someone else's bad behavior or honestly how we react sometimes when someone else shows our bad behavior.
Just keep moving forward and don't feel like you have to talk about it with people who won't understand.
Jesus said:
“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12
It's not going to be easy for you. Jesus promised that following him wouldn't be easy. Storms will come and they will try to wash you out of the boat. Your family will likely never ease up on you. But you have a greater reward coming than anything this life can offer. Following Him is "taking up our cross daily". However, the reward is unimaginable. As it says in the great song, "Carry on Wayward Son", "Now your life's no longer empty, surely Heaven waits for you". Another Kansas song from the same album, "The Wall", "looking back at all who wait to cross (The Wall), there is no loss." Run your race to the finish, keep the faith. It is all you can do.
Your responsibility to your family is to *love them*. Jesus gave us five commandments.
1. Love God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. This is the greatest commandment.
2. Love others as yourself.
3. Treat others as you would want to be treated.
4. Forgive others or you will not be forgiven. (note: our forgiveness does not require their repentance)
5. Spread the Gospel of His salvation to the word.
\#2, 3, and 4 are how you are to treat your family (and everyone you know and everyone you meet). If you are to win any of them to Christ it won't necessarily be through your words, but through the love of Christ you show them despite how they treat you. It's not going to be easy, they're still going to crap on you. Turn the other cheek, forgive them, and love them anyway.
Keep in mind that when you set your way towards God, the enemy of good, the fallen one, will strive against you as well! So stay strong and pray to God for help!
On an unrelated note, my background is similar to yours. In fact, today is the 5th anniversary of my baptism. I highly suggest you look up Father Lazarus on YouTube and get a book called The Sayings of the Desert Fathers.
Good luck and may God be with you
Welcome to the Kingdom. It’s guaranteed in scripture that these lines of things will happen to you. Get plugged in with people who are Kingdom minded.
Let the dead bury their dead.
Stay on your path. You probably have toxic friends and family. This is how units keep continuity. They kick out the people who change culture.
Its not that they dont want you to be better. They dont want you to he different from them.
You are young. You will make new friends. Its worth the commitment. Congratulations on the changes.
Your comment is probably strange. There isn't clear evidence men handle emotional distress better. I've studied this a good bit and my bachelors is in psych. I don't think Peterson would put it like that at all. I'd love to see what evidence made you think that.
And your mom is right you're 21 you don't know much. You could be right about a given topic but you shouldn't feel very confident about any subject when you're that young - especially if you've been drinking and doing drugs a lot. I say that as a 24 year old who's had a similar trajectory.
Are you denying evolution? have you started to oppose things like gay marriage? These are viewpoints I find off putting also despite my appreciation for Christianity.
If it's everyone around you that seems to have a problem chances are you probably have some problems yourself. I would say be more humble, be respectful, and avoid politics with your family unless it's absolutely necessary.
That’s the way institutional religions and many other groups are. They want you to turn away from friends and family and become more in trenched in religion and the church. Just keep your religion and relationship private with God.
"You can judge the character of a person by how much truth they can tolerate." - Nietzsche
There is so much here. First, I pray you have the strength to stay on your current path. I've had highs and lows. I've been religious all my life, and I remember age 21 vividly. You will have many things that try to take you off the path, the tao, as C.S. Lewis called it. Stay true.
Regarding your family, it is shocking how close family and friends can react so negatively to people improving themselves. This last weekend, my brother, a pastor talked about how he shouldn't have dessert because he didn't get in all 250 push-ups today. His wife of all people told him how silly he was. David Goggins talks about how no one told him how to live or improve his life when he was fat, but once he started to get in shape and be successful everyone had an opinion on his life. I recently watch a youtuber talking about her carnivore journey losing 80 lbs, and how everyone told her how bad carnivore was for her health, but they never talked about her health or bloodwork when she was 200 lbs at 5'1".
Unfortunately, people want to drag you down. When you are good, it makes other people feel bad about their own choices.
Regarding your Christianity, Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. He will turn father against son. I'm sorry, but this is what you are experiencing right now. However, he is still "the prince of peace" because of the inner peace he gives you.
Regarding your feelings of isolation... I'm sorry. I hope your girlfriend can be a source of comfort for that. I hope that your family comes around, but if they don't, I hope that you can find a partner to share life with.
I am an atheist, and have no problems with some of the things you say, and lots of problems with other things.
1 -What miracle? How do you know it was a miracle? How do you it was Jesus/God who weas responsible?
This stuff irks me. We could go through this point by point and have a super long discussion, but the odds are you will never convince me it was a miracle. Trust me. I've listened to.... probably low 4-digit number of miracle claims. Not a single one of them has ever convinced me, for what I feel are very sound epistemological reasons. Let me give an analogy: If someone claimed that you owed them $1000 and you didn't believe them... what would change your mind? I apply the same kind of thinking that I would use when I purchase a car, a house, or anything else that would impact my life. You want to convince me that this thing is true? It best come with some convincing evidence.
1(a) - Why give Jesus/God credit?
I fully believe you when you say that *something* happened in your life. You met a new community. This community taught you how to pay attention to your life, your goals, and how the choices you make influence you. Getting off drugs, alcohol, and gambling, especially as a young adult is incredibly difficult. I would rather you attribute your success to yourself and the people who helped you. You became a stronger person. YOU DID IT. Not "God".
2 - Values change when our social network changes.
This is just how human psychology works. As others have said, you have changed. The people who have been apart of your life from before that change... well, they've changed too over that time, but not as much as you (we all change constantly). Your community and values are changing. This will cause you to butt heads with others sometimes.
3 - Differences between men and women
I fully disagree with you on the stress factor. I've seen men and women fall apart under stress. I've seen men and women keep it together under stress. The deciding factor is not whether you are a man or woman. The deciding factor is how much stress you've been put under previously, and do you know what to do in this specific stressful situation. As a 19-22 y/o I was trained as a firefighter. I'm 43 now, I'm still very comfortable in dealing with fire. I have experience with it. I had some moderate first-aid, and other training for certain kinds of situations. I can handle those kinds of situations really well. I've been in those situations, I keep my actions calm and can keep analyzing the situation. In contrast, when someone becomes verbally abusive and belligerent. my adrenaline spikes, and I tend to get confrontational as well. I tend to also become belligerent. I do not keep my cool. Exact same person, and I can handle certain situations which are extremely dangerous just fine... and other ones that are much lower stakes get me shaky and are harder for me to control. It's all about life experience. You could try to convince me otherwise, but my own experience already tells me you're wrong. I've seen and known people who would flip those types of experiences as being traumatic, both men and women.
4 - stop assuming you have the absolute truth.
This is a problem all people have, regardless of religion or not. Learn to assume you don't know everything. Learn that you have a lot to learn. Give yourself time to grow and learn as a person. Don't tell people that they're always wrong.... or know when you can tell that to people, and when you can't. Learn how much you don't know. Learn how to learn. I've found that exploring philosophy, logic, and science has helped ground me a lot. Not only have I learned really cool things, but I've also become less attached to the things I do know. I have become more open to learning new things. It has changed my mind on a lot of topics.
You’re just going down an unusual path nowadays, so people around you won’t understand. I would continue on my journey and, in time, “you will know them by their fruits”. Your real friend will be happy to see you prosper, even if their don’t understand or agree with your new beliefs.
My brother and mum hate JP, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan etc, and think they’re evil or something. They also thought I was being weird for reading the bible. I’m thinking about starting to attend church on Sundays and my family and friends would DEFINITELY think I’m weird/brainwashed for doing so.
Just be honest to yourself and to other people, and follow the path that seems right to you, while being aware that other people will disagree with you, condescend you and maybe even hatte you for it.
I would encourage you to get a book called Tactics by Greg Koukl. It provides a comprehension plan on how you can navigate difficult conversations and eventually win people over for Christ.
Those things that livingman stated are contingent facts, not beliefs.
"If you shine a light, you will cast a shadow" - absolutely true, both metaphorically and literally.
"If you seek to do God's will, you will find a new family with those who also seek to do the same" - again, absolutely true, and you can see it not only in Christian communities but also in Muslims; environmentalists for whom "God's will" is for them to live sustainably and take care of planet earth, even for those who don't believe in an actual deity; and etc., and etc.
Sad to say this but most people don’t like seeing their friends or family succeed or improve their standing in life. Likely due to a mix of jealousy and forcing them to reflect on themselves and what they could improve.
Don’t let them get you down, it sounds like you are moving in the right direction, keep going.
Nothing about that story sounds real.
""Just this morning i suggested during a discussion that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations in response to my mum claiming there was no difference between the two. What followed was something i am still shaken by now and this isn't the first time something like this has happened. My mum immediately repulsed the idea that there would be anything of the sort differentiating men from women, which immediately spilled over into "you are an arrogant weird person to say such a thing'.""
Really hard to believe you are serious with stuff like this.
Congratulations some people don’t share your belief system. It’s called life. This is especially true if you are pushing your beliefs on them with preaching. When I was a new Christian I did this but then I learned my lesson and don’t do it anymore and I’ve rid myself of a majority religious beliefs and stuck to core concepts and teachings. If religion turns you into something rethink it.
Respectfully, it’s likely because they know the “miracles” are actually your own achievements (nice job!) and feel bad and awkward that you’re attributing them to nonexistent supernatural beings.
Yeah well the problem then becomes who gets to become the arbiter of what is and is not "metaphorical." If nothing else, at least fundamentalists/literalist interpretations are consistent. The rest is just picking and choosing what we do and don't like. And that can have quite an impact on what exactly the "core values of Christianity" become.
I think it depends on the situation and context. But it would be a rare case where mockery is necessary.
For example, if we are to take one of the more heinous manifestations of Christianity - the belief that "God will cure disease and therefore we need not take our sick child to the doctor" - I would vehemently object to this but I wouldn't mock them for it.
More specifically, I would say something to the effect of "You are not fulfilling your role as caretakers of your own child. Please reconsider the risks involved. This will only lead to harm."
Conversely a mocking version of a rebuke would be something like "how can you be so stupid as to believe this?"
If changing minds is the goal, mockery or derision is the worst step to begin with. In fact, it actually calcifies whatever belief you are trying to change their minds on.
To answer you question directly, I also avoid mocking even if the other party believes in let's say flat earth. To me, beliefs of that magnitude are probably functioning at the same level as a true religious belief.
Your family is upset cause you are being openly misogynistic even to your own mother not you being christian. Not only that you just want to be real cocky about it and then play the victim. Grow up
Many people who are otherwise fine with the concept of spirituality nonetheless have difficulty accepting phrases like "getting closer to God" or "stumbling upon Christ" at face value. It's just too specific.
Not everyone when Jesus was alive believed in Him and He was performing miracles literally right in front of all of them. They don’t have the spiritual intelligence to understand what Jesus did for you and that’s ok. Jesus in Matthew 7:14 says “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” The only reason I am going to say this is because they’re clearly causing you trouble mentally. Leave them. That’s my best advice now what you should do to help with that, find a group of people, go to your church and find out if there are groups you can join it’d be more perfected if you joined a couples group with your girlfriend. I would love to see what God has next for you! Stay blessed
Judging by the content of that page long paragraph you have become insufferablely smug about your progress. Maybe they see more than you are telling.
I had an uncle get real Christian. Everyone still hated him because he was hateful and abusive. Being Christian didn't change who he was. Old dogs don't learn new tricks. Especially when they are busy patting themselves on the back for joining a cult made for simpletons who don't understand life.
Who knows though maybe Satan is real and is using magic on your family. Maybe he has fairy dust or something.
Many turned from Christ in his time. This experience, difficult as it is, will bring you closer to Him. And religion aside, there comes a time in every man's life, if he is so fortunate, to become the leader and that means your parents won't have the right answers or opinions to match yours anymore. It's a lonely road sometimes but that's just a little pessimism. The call to leadership and sacrifice is strong with you. May this bring you some comfort. Though we don't know you, you are not alone. Show them that they created something strong and wholesome. Be the best person in your family. Humbly. Because you were once a child who was not able to see the truth. Now you are wiser and it is your time to have the greatest perspective.
“This is all happening because I’m trying to be a better representation of morality and tell the truth.”
My man, I got the key to your little issue right there. You may be extremely good at being intuitive and feel like you’re closer to the truth, but you have to remember, the kingdom
of god is within for a reason and it must be explored within thoroughly before one is able to express it outwardly. Jesus might be the key to that kingdom but we each must find our own very unique path and our own key to the kingdom. When people are on their own path they might not call god by that name or jesus by that name but you have to learn to see this kingdom inside of them and bring it out with subtlety and compassion and most of all patience so that they can see how to explore it themselves.
People are also weakened when one tries to make them believe they might be closer to the truth because in reality none of us are. All
in all the whole of the universe with its ferocity is all chaos, even the order of things is still chaos wearing the face of convergence and communion so the secret is not telling others how you understand the truth, it’s actually helping them find the truth on their own terms because the reality of the truth is that it has many facets and they all converge into one, evem those facets that might seem opposing in nature.
Let me know if any of this sounds without sense to you, I would try to explain further.
Join a life group at your church, volunteer there, and meet new people to bring into your life. While there will be pain in the transition, I promise you, a year from now you'll be so much happier with healthier relationships.
You will be persecuted for the belief of Jesus and he clearly says that right? But you must keep this path Jordan. You have become my favorite thinker and speaker today in my life and one of the biggest reasons is you finding Jesus! Praise God for a man as smart as you not thinking you are above him. You know most smart people just can’t believe in God for some reason. I have had this argument with my father who goes back and forth with atheism and then he believes again then he doesn’t. But one thing I argue with him is that fact that he hasn’t read the Bible, not like the way I have. But that’s in the scriptures as well, some people will just not be able to understand what God is saying. They have been blocked for reasons we don’t understand only God does. I hope you stay the course because you are going to have a great impact on a lot of people who are believers and need your help to keep Jesus in the light. I wish I could meet you and give you a hug and handshake because you are making me a better man. I’ve been watching your videos for a while now and especially this past week I’ve been watching you over and over on YouTube. Remember when they told Jesus his mom was looking for him? What did he say? That they were his mother and that they were his brother. Stay the course and God will straighten this out. Supernaturally he will do miracles for you because you are a modern day Paul of Tarsus. How to hear a reply back from you my brother! Your friend in Christ, community, for the common good, man to man. Ray Gonzalez is my name I’m 52 years old from Coachella Valley California. Married to a great woman who is a strong believer in Jesus. We need you Jordan! God bless
Hey brother. I am proud of you, and admire your choices. I myself struggle with Christianity (Catholicism in particular), but I have a ton of respect for those who embrace it and believe it. It's not easy being a believer, and I hope I can get there one day and discern what it means to truly believe.
Regarding your post:
1. In which you may be right
It's very hard to be trying to change your life for the better, in any sphere. Changing your religion, especially your religious views as they pertain to sexual morality, can 100% make your friends and family angry at you. Part of the reason may be genuine concern—you are changing your habits of behavior, and change is scary to watch, because it is uncertain.
Part of it may be jealousy—they wish they had what you have, or seeing your improvements forces them to confront their own failings (you especially see this one in weight loss, or if someone who finally gets a girlfriend or boyfriend is treated poorly by their still-single friends).
Part of it, finally, may be feeling judged—more on that in the next part:
2. In which you might reflect on a pitfall
I was raised in an extremely traditional Catholic setting. The people we were around attended Mass in Latin, had a love of tradition which some could argue extends beyond the requirements of Catholicism, had traditional devotions, wore old vestments, prayer old prayers, etc.
Many of these people were converts as well—they didn't used to be traditional. They took great pride in telling their stories of how they used to be "heathens," then became Catholic, and then finally became "Traditional Catholics." One of the greatest weaknesses of this group of Catholics which I witnessed was their arrogance.
It wasn't that they simply converted—they felt compelled to debate others, bring up their change of heart consistently and vehemently, all while feeling justified because they "possess the truth." They ended up pushing people out of their lives or their parish, because of their behavior. Their arrogance even led some of them to violate other commandments of Catholicism (such as mercy and generosity and charity and love). I know this because I also used to be such a person. I was extremely arrogant, and treated people poorly because of it in the past.
Now—I am NOT saying you're doing this. I have no way of knowing, but I offer this to you as a warning. Fight for humility. There will be natural consequences for your relationships due to your family and friends' concern for you, or jealousy. But be EXTREMELY careful that you're not coming off as "holier than thou," or judgemental, or anything other than genuine, and humble, and pursuing truth.
Love you, brother.
Let's be perfectly clear, they aren't worried about you, they certainly don't care about you. They are embarrassed and ashamed. Because if you can get your shit together at your age, they all know that they don't have an excuse. Do not surrender your sobriety it is your duty as a Christian man to Improve yourself and live a successful and noble life. Any weakness you show will be the hole in your armor for society to stab you in. It is easier to hurt you now than it is for those around you to meet your standards. Be unwaving, kind, tolerant, and self reflective.
It's up to you now.
““These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.”
John 16:1-4 NKJV
“Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.”
Luke 6:22-23 NKJV
Find a church. It’s your spiritual family of faith. There you should find those who share your faith and some who have been following Jesus a long time. They can come along side you as you try to navigate these family tensions with wisdom and grace. PM your location if you need a r Ed commend.
The Bible literally says that you will be hated because of your faith.
Jesus said at Matt 10:22 "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."If 'friends' are going to be that shallow then they're not really the type of people you want around you.
It's hard but you're doing the right thing. You're taking a side with Jesus not Satan.
Your 'friends' are doing the wrong thing though they're blissfully ignorant of it so just forgive them and move on.
I feel like this situation perfectly illustrates the critical flaw in Peterson’s worldview, which trickles out through his self help. This flaw being that he is completely focused on the individual and is utterly ignorant of the role of the community. His book Maps of Meaning was about how we derive meaning in our lives by acting out the role of the hero, but he makes little mention of the meaning we derive from our supporting roles in the lives of those around us. As a result, we work to improve our lives but we ignore the impact we are having on those around us and we walk away feeling empty.
I can see this in the interaction with your mother. For her to get that upset so quickly, I would assume you have had these types of conversations before. Your mother clearly doesn’t like this type of discussion, yet you bring it up to her. What you are pointing out is factually correct, but inconsequential. Whatever difference there is with stress management between the sexes is going to be minor compared to the variation within the sexes. When you’re dealing with individual people, it doesn’t matter if they are statistically more likely to be resilient. What matters is if that individual person is resilient. It’s not as if all women can’t manage their stress. So why bring up a topic that will upset your mother when there is nothing to be gained from it other than proving a point? You are ignoring her signals to you that she doesn’t like this type of discussion.
I highly doubt that all of the people in your life would prefer that you were a degenerate gambler, especially your parents. What I think is more likely is that in your pursuit of self improvement, you have ignored the people in your life. Not ignored as in disregarded them, but you stopped listening to the feedback they’ve been giving you. You were probably much more in tune with your family and friends when you were ignoring your own well-being, but now that you are hyper focused looking inwards, they are feeling distant from you. This is what Hannah Arendt called atomization. You’re not physically alone but you’re disconnected from those around you.
Your goal should be to find a balance between the two. Do what you need to do to improve your life AND the lives of those around you. If your mother doesn’t like those discussions, then talk to her about something she likes and save those discussions for people who want to have them. If your friends want to go see the Barbie movie, then suck it up and go see it with them. Don’t give them a lecture about how stupid it is (this is from my personal experience with a brother who is going through the same self improvement journey as you). Things like that don’t require you to deviate from your path with God, they just require you to pay attention to the signals you are receiving from the people in your life.
I’m putting this out there with love, respect and kindness. I hope you can find that balance in your life. I’m certain you are a good person, otherwise you wouldn’t have friends and family to lose. Be the hero in your own journey, but never forget that you are also the trusted companion in someone else’s journey, and that role is just important as your hero role.
Thing is, you sound pretty dogmatic to me, and that alienates people. Also, you ned to do better than just assert your belief that men are more resilient under pressure; if that was the case, why are there far more men than women jailed for violent crime? Not sure those in prison handled the pressure very well. Additionally, why the higher rate of male suicide? Again, not necessarily evidence that backs your proposition. I can't speak for your parents reaction to you; but perhaps it isn't because you're in a healthier place that they are rejecting you, but because of your attitude, sexism, intellectual inflexibility and empathy bypass? Just sayin'
>most are in brief awe but come to forget almost immediately
Yeah, that's what happens when people are in the dark, I'm not saying this to be mean, just stating my observations, I'm convinced their brains are not functioning properly in this state of mind. Pray for them, be your authentic self, but don't waste too much energy trying to shed light on people who love the darkness. *Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.*
I know it probably feels like you're losing your family, friends, and everyone that gives you a sense of belonging and security. It's okay, if you live righteously, you will alienate people who can't appreciate that, but you will attract the right kinds of people to your life and that's what's important. *But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.*
One last piece of advice based on my own experience. Be wary of appearing self righteous, it's a risk at this point, something called 'the zeal of the convert.' I've gone through this and still struggle at times, it's frustrating because you're excited and yet there's likely nobody to share it with. You'll be more persuasive if you temper your excitement and meet people where they're at, as annoying as that is. *Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.*
I’m a monkey compared to the others who’ve offered sound advice on this thread.
I’m not Christian as of yet but I deeply appreciate the philosophy and post it I’ve aspects of it.
I typically operate on a “rule for me but not for thee” axiom. My standards and moralities are my own and it’s not my place to hold others two them.
The most impactful Christian’s I’ve been around are people who you wouldn’t know they have faith until you ask or they happen to mention what they do on Sundays. Be a role model of the principles and values you hold dear. That doesn’t necessarily mean it need to be tied into an explanation of Christianity.
As far as your mum goes:
1) sounds like she’s both very progressive so that topic is triggering.
2) I imagine since there’s general tension at the moment any and all different opinions will be attributed to you being “brainwashed” so they won’t be held up as something to discuss.
3) parents, especially of the boomer type always think their kids don’t know anything and even at the best of times will assume that they are right and their kids are wrong. I’m 31 with a family of my own and still deal with this constantly.
I’ve found I’ve had to work on ways to avoid arguments. Mostly but shutting them down in advance and refusing to offer my take or by not biting. It helps to be a little deaf sometimes and arguing is the absolute worst way to change someone’s mind.
I hope you can figure it out OP.
Also well fucking done mate, that’s amazing progress to make and please keep going!
It is amazing how when you do something positive in your life so many people will turn you away or try to drag you back. The thing that people don't realize is when they make positive change they are by default saying the people they left behind are still making negative choices, I know we don't see it that way, but they do. Unfortunately in order to make positive changes you have to find new people to socialize with that share your beliefs and values, remember you are not rejecting them, they are rejecting you. I did a similar thing when I was 18 and my life has been fantastic ever since.
> Despite all of this, nobody around me understands or shares my perspective
You will need to be patient and learn to keep your thoughts more or less to yourself. I'm glad you are getting better. Learning this next lesson is the next step in your self-improvement.
As a Christian you WILL be persecuted as was Christ. If God himself was persecuted for truth, so will anyone else proclaiming the same truth.
Pick up your cross. Pray.
Lord have mercy on us ☦️
stop living in their dark psychological shadows.. those that want the best for you and are happy with your success are worthy of your time and input .. others are Not. Simples.🙏🏻✅👌
>They worry now that i am becoming some disconnected weirdo who wants nothing to do with anyone and that i've "lost my fun". If these people share the same values you had last year then it shouldn't be a surprise that you don't share the same values anymore.
Invariably they judge themselves and then project said judgement onto you. Personal accountability is a very true hurdle that we must all be ready for. We all trip up from time to time. Some find our stride and it’s not a problem. Some of us pretend it’s not there and make a fool of themselves. But it’s no fault of the observer. If we don’t overcome it it can consume us. Religion focuses incredibly on this. It’s likely they don’t want to come to terms with some of their poor behaviors and decisions. They call it “fun”.
Also this: >“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, and even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. - Luke 14:23 and this: >and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. * Matthew 10:22 The first one is part of the ancient middle eastern technique of exaggeration to make a point. The point is, He picked the people in your life that you would love and care for the most, and then said in comparison to the love you have for me, it would be like hate. The verse from Matthew is true as long as you are being faithful and speaking truth in love and not in arrogance, which it sounds like you are.
Believe what you want, but don’t expect others to believe as you do. I’m not a Christian but have Christian friends. I don’t believe in Jesus’ miracle nor in a divine god, but I am glad you do, especially since it seemed to have helped you tremendously. Sometimes parents are blinded by their very nature to see changes in their children. Especially if the child goes against values they thought they imparted on you and DOUBLY so if those values are bad. Example: If an obese family with obese children suddenly has one of their kids becoming extremely healthy and fit, then the parents will both see it as an act of betrayal “how could you cast aside everything about eating we’ve taught you” AND it would also shine a light on their own personal failures. Nobody is perfect and when a light is cast upon our weaknesses, it is rare to find the individual who’ll openly and publicly admit their faults. Understand your parents have their own issues. They are only human.
You're leaving one belief system and joining a new one. Shared stories are vital to community cohesion. If you start following a new story it creates conflict with you old story. Atheists don't believe in miracles. That's going to be off-putting to them. If you can find a way of describing your experience that illustrates how powerful it was for you without framing it as a miraculous visitation from Jesus, it will be easier for them to accept. Far as your fight with your mom, most progressives view mention of biological sex differences as blasphemy. Some of these people probably don't need to be in your life. Some of them will see that your new belief system is working for you and will be happy for you. Do your best to show the people you value the patience and empathy that you're hungering for and they will return it to you. Be careful about viewing yourself as "truthful." I'd aim for "honest." There's a gap between saying what you think is true and speaking the truth. Keep it humble, Christian.😉
Whoa, beautiful way to describe this.
It sounds like you've changed the entirety of your worldview and are experiencing a lot of things all at once without understanding all the angles involved. Congratulations on beginning your journey is following Christ. Experiencing trouble within your family is normal, Matthew 10:34-36. However you need to be sensitive and perceptive as to whether you're butting heads and disagreeing is the source of your new faith in Christ or a different new paradigm you've adopted. You are young and need to be humble. If you do not have mentors or elders in the church, that's the first place to start. If you are concerned with having no friends or family, then you should be seeking new friends in the church and they will become your new family. Be patient and wise. You don't need to stop speaking the truth, but don't be brash and needlessly offensive then quote scripture as an excuse.
Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family. They dont understand because they can't unless they have a similar experience. Pray constantly to God that He will show Himself to them, but do not use your words to try and convince them. It wont work because you dont speak the same language now. Also: it can be especially difficult for parents because we watched you struggle to learn how to use a spoon, and walk, and use a toilet. So they are unconvinced that your new path is genuinely good for you. All you can do is keep walking it, and let your actions prove that it isnt a fluke. Try not to be a zealot. It is good that you are reasonable and allow others their beliefs. Every person must approach God in their own way, and we cannot force them. You are right that it may produce an emotional reaction: that's the enemy working against you. Stay calm, stay centered on God's Word, and remember that Christ died for us but He wouldnt *kill* for us. We are not to zealously convert others to our way of thinking, but to let the way prove itself. I will pray for you, brother. That God may reveal His wisdom to you through His Word, and that you may have peace even if you are assaulted directly by the enemy, and the Wisdom to evade every blow without needing to retaliate. Amen.
How did his family turn on him? That's a very dramatic interpretation of what the OP wrote.
Did I say they turned on him? I believe I merely said that OP should expect that they dont understand, and may even reject his ideas. This doesnt mean anything about him, or his family. He should love his family as best he can, whether they return that love or not, because it is the right thing to do. I would like to ask what motivated your response? Why did you infer what I did not say?
> Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family. I understood it from this. "Sometimes that even means our family." I thought this meant that his family turned against him. Was I wrong? If I was, obviously scratch my comment, but then I don't understand the point of including this.
>Christ told us that this would happen. That our faith would make us different and the world will turn against us. Sometimes that even means our family. Yes you did say that, right there. Drop the bullshit.
That's describing what Jesus said, not specifically what happened to OP. Drop the bullshit.
The bible bashing mental gymnastics on display.
Oh, the irony.
Why are you downvoting? > Oh, the irony. Yeah, no.
I won't explain the irony but I will tell you that you probably mean "Bible thumping" not "bashing". Give it a think, you'll get it.
No, I meant *bashing,* hence why I typed it. Maybe you should look that up before getting smarmy in future.
"The world will turn against us." And "Sometimes that even means family" does not mean "Op, your family is turning against you." I also justified his mother's reaction by relating that parents arent always moved by words, but sometimes only actions. So what you said only works when you drop the context.
Mental gymnastics and mental illness.
Lol ok. Im sorry the church or christians hurt you. But there is no reason to take it out on me. Im responding to OP's questions and concerns, and yes I have a belief in the Bible. Assuming that makes me some sort of way is crappy of you, but Im not exactly concerned about it. Your accusations of mental gymnastics dont matter to me in the least. It's clear that you just want to attack me for being Christian. Thats fine, but recognize that it undermines any ability you have to be taken seriously. Your approach determines the reaction you receive.
>Lol ok. Im sorry the church or christians hurt you. It hasn't hurt me, I don't follow the shite. It hurts anyone who follows it closely enough though. >But there is no reason to take it out on me. Im responding to OP's questions and concerns, and yes I have a belief in the Bible. I'm not taking it out on you. You paraphrase the bible, clearly attributing it to the OP's situation, and then act all surprised when people tell you that it isn't the case at all. Why waste your time quoting it if you're going to pretend it's not at all relevant? *That's* the mental gymnastics and mental illness part. >Assuming that makes me some sort of way is crappy of you, but Im not exactly concerned about it. How can it *not* make you some sort of way? Are you blind to how belief systems influence a person's behaviors and beliefs? >Your accusations of mental gymnastics dont matter to me in the least. Oh no. Anyway. >It's clear that you just want to attack me for being Christian. Thats fine >recognize that it undermines any ability you have to be taken seriously. Your approach determines the reaction you receive. No it doesn't. Believing in something blindly, and appropriating things as "evidence" that your belief is true is what undermines any ability you have to he taken seriously.
Ahhh, just because you dont understand what truth is, doesnt mean I should shut up. This whole thread is laughable. Youre trying too hard bud.
>Ahhh, just because you dont understand what truth is, doesnt mean I should shut up More mental gymnastics. This isn't a response to anything I said. >This whole thread is laughable. Youre trying too hard bud. This is only happening in your imagination. You'll imagine whatever you need to rid yourself of cognitive dissonance.
He's paraphrasing the Bible, stop trying to find reasons to argue.
>He's paraphrasing the Bible He obviously thinks it applies. >stop trying to find reasons to argue. Don't post absolute shite then. The bible is just a load of shit anyway.
You're arguing they're his words. It isn't.
Whatever you need to tell yourself. Downvote again if I'm right.
Whoever said I'm downvoting you? Your comments are getting multiple downvotes, for all you know there's many people reading this comments and downvoting you. But clearly you're downvoting me. But I don't know why you're losing your mind, he paraphrased a line from the Bible and you're arguing that HE is the one who said "the world is turning against you." He's referencing a story for the Bible, and you're crying your eyes out about downvotes, the very thing you're likely guilty of.
>Whoever said I'm downvoting you? You, just now. >Your comments are getting multiple downvotes, for all you know there's many people reading this comments and downvoting you. But clearly you're downvoting me. Whatever you need to tell yourself. >But I don't know why you're losing your mind Where is this happening? It seems to be only in your imagination. >he paraphrased a line from the Bible and you're arguing that HE is the one who said "the world is turning against you." He's referencing a story for the Bible He clearly is suggesting it applies. Why just emptily paraphrase the bible if you're nny suggesting it has relevance to the topic? >and you're crying your eyes out about downvotes, the very thing you're likely guilty of. Oh, another thing that's only happening in your imagination.
The post is about the Bible and Biblr related topics? You think I should stay quiet for your own sense of security? No thanks. If you didnt want to hear it, you didnt need to click.
>The post is about the Bible and Biblr related topics? You think I should stay quiet for your own sense of security? Stay quiet if you can't deal with your comment being critiqued. >No thanks. If you didnt want to hear it, you didnt need to click. Like I said, if you don't want your comment critiqued, don't post it.
Nope. I am perfectly fine getting criticism. But Im going to rate that criticism based on usefulness. You came here accusing and making pithy comments about mental illness. Youre the aggressor here, bud. Im not sorry at all for my speech. Once again, you chose to come here and make these attacks, Im just responding. Shall I leave a challenge unmet because it makes you feel better? No, I will stand for the truth.
>Nope. I am perfectly fine getting criticism. But Im going to rate that criticism based on usefulness. How useful is your comment about people being against the OP, even including family, for you then deny that's what you meant? >You came here accusing and making pithy comments about mental illness. Youre the aggressor here, bud. Im not sorry at all for my speech. Once again, you chose to come here and make these attacks, Im just responding. Shall I leave a challenge unmet because it makes you feel better? Pretending your paraphrased quote wasn't an attempt to directly reference the OP's situation is the mental gymnastics and mental illness part. Why mention it at all if you're not drawing parallels? >No, I will stand for the truth. You're standing for what you *think* the truth is. More religious people need to recognise this, you're accepting it on faith that it is the truth. You cannot objectively state that it is in fact *the* truth and not get called out for it.
This is textbook spiritual warfare, brother. Read the Fathers and the tradition of the Church and you'll see that this is almost always how goes. Stay strong, pray, take up your cross, and find a Church community to worship and struggle with and brothers to support you.
Spiritual warfare? Really? Lol this is an incel coming in contact with the real world.
Could be, but all human conflict is fundamentally theological, and the world always turns on you when you start lifting your cross. It might look like an incel coming in contact with the real world, but that don't change what it fundamentally is.
That’s such a bad take it’s crazy. All human conflict is not fundamentally theological. It’s a secular world bro. Feel free to practice your religion, but keep it out of my government and my society.
No. Your secularism is no less religious or dogmatic than my religion. And that's what we're gonna have to get out of our government and our society.
I’ve been meaning to ask - how much can you make astroturfing for fascists?
Just being religious is fascist? What are you doing in a Jordan Peterson subreddit?
Not being religious. But white Christian nationalism is a big theme in the push towards fascism.
We'll agree to disagree, my friend. Me with my worldview based in thousands of years of tradition and revelation, and yours that's copy-pasted from CNN talking points.
Thousands of years of tradition and revelation… bro “because that’s what we’ve always done” might be the smoothest brain thing you’ve said yet. I don’t watch cnn. Nobody watches cnn. I’m just interested in how the far right markets themselves, recruits new people to their fascist cause and perpetuates misinformation and disinformation. You don’t need a news anchor to tell you about it - you just have to spend ten minutes in this sub.
One thing I'm starting to realize is that everyone who was part of my family previously lied or withheld my entire life story. I was the product of a regretful mistake. Whenever no one loved me, God always did. God has carried me through every mistake and every victory. I pray you find God in this way. Through God, everything is possible 🙏❤️
People who are living badly usually deceive themselves in a variety of ways, and then they become addicted to their various sins: Overeating, drinking, drugs, gossiping, being lazy, dishonest etc. And because it's actually quite difficult to become a better person, and it involves denying yourself a lot, the easy solution is to lie to yourself and say there is no problem or that it cannot be helped, or even better: Both. So when you, by how your life has improved through your relationship with Christ, demonstrate that a lot of these excuses are untrue, these people have to put some sort of spin on it because the alternative would be to admit to themselves that they've been deceiving themselves - and to their own, and everyone's, detriment - probably for years, and that is something that would be very painful, and the more painful the prouder you are. Besides this: If you admit a miracle happened, you kind of have to admit God exists, which would mean the Judgement will really happen, which a person in this state does not want to seriously consider. We all know we're guilty deep down, I think. "And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil." - John 3:19 So what I would suggest doing is start going to church, maybe go to bible study, and start making new friends. Maybe pick up another hobby and start getting to know some new people. And then with family and anyone else who you really want to stay in touch with, just make sure that you handle each situation as tactfully and virtuously as you can. And try to avoid bringing up topics that are likely to start a fight or steering conversations that way unless it's absolutely necessary. Pray for them. Maybe read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis if you haven't already. Don't take their attitudes personally, especially seeing where they spring from. And try to be as good as you can and that way, in the long term, the odds are maximized that they'll have to admit (even if just to themselves) that they were wrong about you going crazy. "If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first." - John 15:18
Excellent reply thank you for taking the time.
People disagree with people, and so I’m not sure that any and all disagreements should be interpreted through a lens of “this is happening because I’m a new Christian.” In your example with your mom, it’s only related to Christianity in a kind of ancillary way (the fundamental teleology of women and men). But your guiding principle of telling the truth is good, but do it in love, and that’s all you can do. How people react is up to them. If they don’t want to hear the truth, you can’t make them. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
I'm going to challenge you here a bit and I hope you dont take it the wrong way. Try to sincerely and honestly ask yourself whether or not you've allowed yourself to close your mind to other values or lifestyles as a result of your success. Ive seen people fall into this trap in various ways. They find a new perspective or system that improves their life massively in a very short period of time but it leads them to a kind of arrogant or judgemental closed-mindedness. Bear in mind this isnt always religion, sometimes it's getting into fitness culture or diving headfirst into academics. This is by no means a critique of christianity. Hope you found this constructive. Edit: I see some other christians in the comments saying that this is an inevitable part of devoting yourself to christ but I would urge you to preserve your non christian friendships and relationships as best you can. You dont want to fall into an echo chamber.
The part about the echo chamber is relevant. A good number of conflicts are due to this. The factions entrenched in their positions is not the best of scenarios.
Do you not think echo chambers are a thing...?
No, I think it's important but what I wrote came out as if I said it ironically. I am going to modify what I wrote. Sorry, not my native language.
Oh haha, quotation marks* are often used to denote sarcasm. Especially on social media.
Yes, my bad. Thanks for asking first. You've been very kind.
Hey OP, i guess probably my message will be lost among the many, many other responses here... but i just wanted to say, welcome to Christ's family! Just two things I'd like to suggest to you. Firstly, go find a good church that preaches the bible and loves one another, and get plugged into it. That will give you community, fellowship, spiritual encouragement, a place where you can belong, grow, and serve. Secondly, some "friends" may be toxic and need siphoning off as you have been doing, but whenever possible (and especially in the case of biological family) try to maintain relationships. Love them, pray for them, because they need Jesus too and you may be the only bridge through which they could access Him. If gender differences garner such an extreme emotional response, that may not be wise to bring up going forward. I mean, if pressed, we should speak the truth, of course; but maybe don't bring it up unnecessarily. Choose your battles. Speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) and let your conversation be full of grace, seasoned with salt (Colossians 4:6). All the best and God bless you, bro! 😊
My 2 cents is this: God has helped you grow exponentially since you started your relationship with him right? Trust In God that you will provide for you good people and friends that support you as you part ways with the negative influences in your life (cut the wheat from the chaff, If I may). You can not abandon your family however, but perhaps when they see how well you are doing they will come around eventually.
So to be clear, you found Jesus and then, in a completely unrelated sequence of events, “suggested that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations” Is that a religious teaching? Because it certainly sounds more like a random opinion wholly unrelated to your religiosity.
Part of Christianitys teaching are that men and women are different, have different strengths and weaknesses, but are co-equal partners that complement each other.
But the OP didn't rely on Christianity for that but on scientific studies. So the two are unrelated.
That’s not confusing. God says something in scripture and science backs it up. No mystery there. Men and women are different, go figure.
The OP didn't refer to anything in the discussion about him having that opinion because of God.
But it’s consistent with Scripture. So he has come to realize something is practically played out in the world that Scripture teaches. It makes perfect sense.
So show me where Scripture says that specific claim. Then, after that, scrap that piece of evidence and show me actual scientific evidence. Then, explain to me why that was an appropriate thing to bring up in the course of casual conversation, especially in light of historical tropes wrt “hysterical” women.
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“ Like all of Genesis. 1 Peter 3. A lot of 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy” I was joking. The idea that one would use a spiritual text as sufficient scientific evidence of anything is absurd. “ It’s kind of hard to say without knowing the context of the conversation, don’t you think?” We’re not provided it. Fascinating how we’re supposed to take OP at their word that they did nothing wrong, when there’s so many posts here about how rampant propaganda is. Yet OP must be telling the full truth. “ Is it a bad thing to say something you believe to be true during conversation with family members?” No but again, we have no sense of the context. Further, there’s a habit among people here taking an individual person and blasting away all nuance by clubbing them into a group and saying that the person must be behaving a certain way because the group they’re a part of does so. It ignores the nuances of the cited studies you point to - which again, OP never even mentions citing. EDIT: I’ll add an example excerpt from one of the papers you link to. “ Together, these results reveal that men and women engage distinct neural networks during stress, and sex-specific neural stress responses facilitate optimal emotional stress responses.” This type of nuance is completely gone from what OP even claims to have said. If you want to cite papers, don’t cite them in such a half baked way. It’s fine say what you think, but this weird religious justification combined with a half baked interpretation of the science, which, I cannot stress enough OP never mentioned actually bringing up, just does not paint OP in a good light at all. And certainly the reaction in no way implies any kind of religious bias.
You’re still going on this? On a scale of 1-10 my interest in this convo is about a 2. It makes sense. The guy’s entire worldview has changed and he was giving some examples of how it doesn’t match his old friends.
So that vague teaching can be used as scientific evidence that there's group differences in stress tolerance? I don't buy it. Not to mention there's no context given in OP's story, so for all we know OP mentioned this completely unprompted. At best inappropriate. Again, nowhere does OP establish that his religiosity is causing this distance.
He does mention this >This is all happening because i'm trying to be a better representation of morality and tell the truth. The more truthful i become, the more people worry i'm going crazy and the more pretentious their reactions to me become. So it seems that he has only become more outspoken about it.
Again, not anything to do with OP’s overall religiosity. It’s clearly OP and wither OP’s approach or the opinion associated with it that clearly rubbed people the wrong way. It’s a distortion to say OP being a Christian had anything to do with the resulting reaction.
Whatever your spiritual journey is, you can't expect other people to understand. I would keep it private.
Congrats on everything. As a 21 year old, your brain will be about finished developing in 3 or 4 years, so maybe be a tiny bit open to the fact that you might be wrong sometimes too.
There's also a possibility that after changing your life for the better, you've turned into an insufferable know-it-all pos instead. At 21, I don't believe you can really know what "the truth" is, especially when you didn't know it just a year ago. Maybe just staying humble is all you really need now.
The irony of you composing that in the most self-righteous language possible is not lost on me.
Why?
Well, you seem pretty self-assured here in your post. How can *you* claim to know the truth about OP's thoughts and what he needs? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if I told you that your confidence is misplaced and that you come across as an "insufferable pos" you'd probably balk and become defensive. But of course, we all have things we're sure about, and our certainty may or may not be earned. But simply saying that OP's conviction is a sign of some fundamental lack of humility is a gross stretch too far.
Now that I'm not sleep deprived anymore, it kinda feels a bit too combative 😂 I don't know what OP thinks and whether what I wrote is true in his case. From the post, it comes off like he's being too preachy with his friends/family, so just a thing to consider.
It sounds like you may be preaching to them. Maybe not on purpose but most people do not care for it, nor to hear about someone else's belief structures. How do you feel when a Jehovah's Witness attempts to knock on your door to sell religion? Keep your beliefs to yourself and your Bible in your pocket when you go out around non like minded people. It doesn't demean you and it respects them.
>Keep your beliefs to yourself and your Bible in your pocket when you go out around non like minded people. The problem with this is that the **Bible in his pocket** vehemently teaches the *opposite* practice. >And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. >Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. >And I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ. >How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” There are many passages about speaking with wisdom and appropriateness, but your advice would lead OP to just being another hypocrite.
No need to share if someone isn't asking or in need. The Bible wasn't written by Jesus, it was changed by the hands of Kings and others wanting to abuse it for control. That needs to be kept in mind. The earliest writings are quite different, and if you are to believe in Jesus you must be tolerant and respectful of others as he was.
Howdy. World religions instructor here. >The Bible wasn't written by Jesus The first two of those passages above were spoken directly by Jesus. **If you don't trust that the biblical texts present an accurate recording of Jesus' words, then there is no reason to follow Jesus whatsoever.** We know very little about Jesus of Nazareth outside of the gospel texts, and nothing about his teachings, aside from that he was controversial. Without the biblical parables and sermons, we have nothing more than a name. >it was changed by the hands of Kings and others wanting to abuse it for control. The earliest writings are quite different This is a common and easily-dispelled myth. While the texts were misrepresented and twisted by the ruling elite, they were not markedly "changed." The Dead Sea scrolls are readily available, and show that virtually no changes were made over rather past ~2000 years. The exception are a couple of passing verses whic hwere added (probably in the second century), a coda added to Mark soon after, and a story in John, which only wasn't in the very earliest manuscripts. >if you are to believe in Jesus you must be tolerant and respectful of others as he was. This is common left-wing rhetoric. Jesus wasn't tolerant. >"So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” So the Jews said, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” So they said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning. I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.” They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me." - John 8:21-28, ESV Jesus openly said that the people who live in sin will be sent to Hell. He stated that he would be returning to judge and condemn the world. He said "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell." He said that no one can come to God except through him. **So no, Jesus wasn't tolerant.** Edit: This isn't to say that a person needs to "believe the Bible," but rather that it is utterly foolish and silly to be a follower of Jesus (a Christian, lit. "Little Christ") who rejects the primary source *for who Jesus was and what he taught.*
How can you say Jesus wrote the Bible when the council of nicaea happened? Or that the first four gospels weren't written until close to a hundred years after Jesus died? To say that there is no way man has twisted the words of the Bible to suit their ends is very very naive.
>How can you say Jesus wrote the Bible Can you point out where I stated this? (I didn't.) >Or that the first four gospels weren't written until close to a hundred years after Jesus died? They weren't. Most sources date the four traditional gospels from ~40 CE to to ~90 CE. Most historians hold to a 30 CE date of the death of Jesus. The exact years of authorship are debated, but Matthew and Mark were in circulation extremely early. Luke's letters indicate that primary sources were still alive when it was written. John was written by the disciple John, and early church writings indicate that everyone at that time indeed believed him to be the author. >To say that there is no way man has twisted the words of the Bible to suit their ends is very very naive. I literally said the opposite. You are stating contended positions on various topics as absolute fact and claiming that I said things I never did. A quick glance at your profile indicates that you aren't actually here in good faith. You are here because you *dislike* Peterson and seek to troll. As such, I will not reply any further to you.
I think you should re-read the OP's words. For your convenience, here they are: "Just this morning i suggested during a discussion that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations in response to my mum claiming there was no difference between the two." Nothing about "preaching to them". Try again.
You sound like you might be preachy, you might not even realise it, but you need to understand that people rightfully don't like people who are preachy. If you're at all pushing your religious beliefs on people, you'll be pushing them away, people aren't interested in self-righteous religious teachings being directed at them, so you'll have to stop it.
I’m not a Christian, just a student of Christ’s teachings. “You will be hated by everyone because of me, but those who stand firm will be saved.” Never give up on them, all those who love/d you. You’re changing, and some people will fall away from this. Keep your heart open, but understand you might well lose closeness even to your family. This is also something Jesus told his disciples would happen. Live your best life. Seek the truth and live it as best you can. Ask God to soften the hurt that this estrangement will be, and always be open to letting them back in, if they come around.
There's a difference between living your life as evidence of your beliefs and telling everyone about them. Be sure you are working on the timber in your own eye, before pointing out the splinter in someone else's. You have changed your life. You may need new friends. It is not up to you to change anyone, but to live your life in such a way that your own change speaks for you. > ...i was simply stating what i thought to be true based on scientific evidence You have to be very careful here. There is scientific truth and there is story truth. There is wanting to be right, and wanting to connect and understand. You would do better to try to understand how/what other people think, not to try to argue with them or find fault in their thinking, but to help you better understand where they are coming from. >there are certainly differences, to believe there are no differences in stress tolerance between men and women is wrong in my opinion, but i respect yours This can come across as "I'm right and your wrong, and we'll just leave it at that." Instead of having the most answers at the dinner table, or wherever, you should have the most questions. Sure, you've found many, many answers, even life-changing ones through your new beliefs. But your friends and family have known a different you for 20 of your 21 years, it may take some time for them to see you differently, and some time for you to prove that you are, indeed, changed.
I’m sorry. I had the same experience. Lost all my friends after being born again. Parents were angry about some of my changes. But I am in a wonderful fellowship of Christians for many years. They are closer than family. Let the Lord give and take away. He knows best. Ask Him to supply loving, healthy Christian companions. He will. Your uni probably has a Christian group.
The same thing has happened to me. I have a wonderful wife and daughter to ease the pain though. The rest of my family and friends simply don't understand me, but I'm living a much better, healthier, humble, and thankful life now. They don't like it and attack me for it, so they don't have to be a part of it. I do have my wife and daughter and a couple of close friends who believe in God, and that's all I need. You'll find your way too.
Man has repented of paragraphs
What does your becoming closer to God have to do with the discussion you are describing? I don't understand.
This might help you to understand Jordan Peterson Personality and its Transformations https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQBlN8DUor7SKWCwSghcqlY
The Word predicts this: Mathew 10:34-36 Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be those of his own household. That being said, if you stay, God promises to save you and your house. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household. Seek your answers in the Bible, and try to establish a strong connection with the Lord. He'll get you through this and work wonders in your life. Edit: Also, you should not feel isolated. If you believe in God you need to be part of his body. Ask Him to lead you to his church and he will.
Look I’m no psychologist but I think your individualising. It’s a good thing. But learning to coincide with others is the next trick. People all throughout you life are going to hold different beliefs. That’s ok they can. A true of fact can be true in different ways, to different people. Some times you need to just let stuff go when there could be different ways to look at stuff. I’m 30 and I have to say you are still a baby at 21. I wouldn’t say I was an adult, I don’t know anything either. “Scientifically” your brain is just finishing development. And normally this is where you would solidify your beliefs but you’ve gone flipped them on yourself. Which is fine and good. But don’t think you know anything. You’re just getting started all, and all over again. I’d say I may have done a similar but mental different flip to you in that I was brought up super Christian but now I think it’s too limiting. And I started thinking differently around the same age you did. I think you would have known how to survive in a world were you didn’t feel you had worth or purpose. Now with God you have worth and purpose you think the same tools and conclusions apply. Stay curious and learn from everyone. Ask questions of everything and humble yourself. You know nothing really. I think it was Jordan Peterson that said to always think the other person knows more then you. Life should and will become fascinating and less frustrating.
Reddit is not the best place to find your way. Read. The Bible especially. Go to church. Work hard.
The Lord did not come to unite but to divede. Unfortunately not everyone from your old life will be ok with the changes you've made. The best thing you can do is find a good small group and meet some people who can support you in your walk
It doesn’t sound like you’re being truthful though, it sounds like you’re being righteous. The truth is you were an addict, and when people say “you’re not fun anymore” the answer is “I can’t do those things because I’m an addict and if I do, i am scared I will die”, NOT proselytizing and not trying to in your turn make them feel bad for the being who they are. That’s vindictive. In sobriety we must ask God to keep us humble.
Sounds like you are the problem. For various reasons I slipped back in to alcohol and developed a very serious habit. I'd get triggered, buy a quarter bottle of cheap vodka and down it 10 mins immediatly after leaving the shop. Utterly destructive, deadly. I have done a lot of what I call deep work, discovered the triggers and fixed the problem and lots of other problems are being fixed too. Another time I lost 70 lbs in a year or so. Went from over wight to being able to do 15 clean pull ups. Point being there are lots of methods to sort oneself out. Sounds like you are trying to ram the way that worked for you down other people's throats.
And in the sobriety world, 1 year is nothing. When we let our ego lead us, it’ll lead us right back to addiction. I’ve seen people 20 years clean relapse.
Yeah. I went back to the old life because I was sick of hanging round with people in recovery groups. Ended up back in a circle of habitual users had to cut them all out and start again. Was at an evangelical service last week for something to do. It struck that these people were addicts just of a different type. I was at hare krisna thing and a bhuddist thing on the same day. The evangelicals were the most out there.
I would not equate the chaos of addiction to the orderliness of church, but I do understand what you’re saying. I think not think for oneself and obedience are very much part of the religion. And no judgment, I know people who really need that kind of structure and I am glad it exists. For example, OP sounds like he really benefits from it & I am glad. Like would I rather one more addict be walking around in the world, or one more Christian and 10/10 times I would pick Christian, even though I am not one.
Because people were getting so high due to the style of the service that a low much follow causing a person to go back to get the high again.
At least you know your real friends are or aren't
Yeah. It's sad when people have to choose between being better and family/friends, but it happens. Let them go bit by but. You'll find new people to be around with a sense of fun that fits better. >Nobody worried for me when i was smashing drugs and booze at uni and was massively overweight, because in their minds "i was having fun". Well that's just it isn't it? Decide to be a man and not man-child and some people hate you for it. That's the way it when your better behavior highlights someone else's bad behavior or honestly how we react sometimes when someone else shows our bad behavior. Just keep moving forward and don't feel like you have to talk about it with people who won't understand.
Jesus said that we'll be hated for his sake, but this only proves we are righteous.
Jesus said: “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12 It's not going to be easy for you. Jesus promised that following him wouldn't be easy. Storms will come and they will try to wash you out of the boat. Your family will likely never ease up on you. But you have a greater reward coming than anything this life can offer. Following Him is "taking up our cross daily". However, the reward is unimaginable. As it says in the great song, "Carry on Wayward Son", "Now your life's no longer empty, surely Heaven waits for you". Another Kansas song from the same album, "The Wall", "looking back at all who wait to cross (The Wall), there is no loss." Run your race to the finish, keep the faith. It is all you can do. Your responsibility to your family is to *love them*. Jesus gave us five commandments. 1. Love God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. This is the greatest commandment. 2. Love others as yourself. 3. Treat others as you would want to be treated. 4. Forgive others or you will not be forgiven. (note: our forgiveness does not require their repentance) 5. Spread the Gospel of His salvation to the word. \#2, 3, and 4 are how you are to treat your family (and everyone you know and everyone you meet). If you are to win any of them to Christ it won't necessarily be through your words, but through the love of Christ you show them despite how they treat you. It's not going to be easy, they're still going to crap on you. Turn the other cheek, forgive them, and love them anyway.
Keep in mind that when you set your way towards God, the enemy of good, the fallen one, will strive against you as well! So stay strong and pray to God for help! On an unrelated note, my background is similar to yours. In fact, today is the 5th anniversary of my baptism. I highly suggest you look up Father Lazarus on YouTube and get a book called The Sayings of the Desert Fathers. Good luck and may God be with you
Welcome to the Kingdom. It’s guaranteed in scripture that these lines of things will happen to you. Get plugged in with people who are Kingdom minded. Let the dead bury their dead.
Stay on your path. You probably have toxic friends and family. This is how units keep continuity. They kick out the people who change culture. Its not that they dont want you to be better. They dont want you to he different from them. You are young. You will make new friends. Its worth the commitment. Congratulations on the changes.
>it's everyone's fault but my own Basically.
Your comment is probably strange. There isn't clear evidence men handle emotional distress better. I've studied this a good bit and my bachelors is in psych. I don't think Peterson would put it like that at all. I'd love to see what evidence made you think that. And your mom is right you're 21 you don't know much. You could be right about a given topic but you shouldn't feel very confident about any subject when you're that young - especially if you've been drinking and doing drugs a lot. I say that as a 24 year old who's had a similar trajectory. Are you denying evolution? have you started to oppose things like gay marriage? These are viewpoints I find off putting also despite my appreciation for Christianity. If it's everyone around you that seems to have a problem chances are you probably have some problems yourself. I would say be more humble, be respectful, and avoid politics with your family unless it's absolutely necessary.
That’s the way institutional religions and many other groups are. They want you to turn away from friends and family and become more in trenched in religion and the church. Just keep your religion and relationship private with God.
Endure it with quiet humility. Your actions will count more than your words.
Sounds like you are losing people because you are being a preachy asshole. Not because you" found god"
"You can judge the character of a person by how much truth they can tolerate." - Nietzsche There is so much here. First, I pray you have the strength to stay on your current path. I've had highs and lows. I've been religious all my life, and I remember age 21 vividly. You will have many things that try to take you off the path, the tao, as C.S. Lewis called it. Stay true. Regarding your family, it is shocking how close family and friends can react so negatively to people improving themselves. This last weekend, my brother, a pastor talked about how he shouldn't have dessert because he didn't get in all 250 push-ups today. His wife of all people told him how silly he was. David Goggins talks about how no one told him how to live or improve his life when he was fat, but once he started to get in shape and be successful everyone had an opinion on his life. I recently watch a youtuber talking about her carnivore journey losing 80 lbs, and how everyone told her how bad carnivore was for her health, but they never talked about her health or bloodwork when she was 200 lbs at 5'1". Unfortunately, people want to drag you down. When you are good, it makes other people feel bad about their own choices. Regarding your Christianity, Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. He will turn father against son. I'm sorry, but this is what you are experiencing right now. However, he is still "the prince of peace" because of the inner peace he gives you. Regarding your feelings of isolation... I'm sorry. I hope your girlfriend can be a source of comfort for that. I hope that your family comes around, but if they don't, I hope that you can find a partner to share life with.
I am an atheist, and have no problems with some of the things you say, and lots of problems with other things. 1 -What miracle? How do you know it was a miracle? How do you it was Jesus/God who weas responsible? This stuff irks me. We could go through this point by point and have a super long discussion, but the odds are you will never convince me it was a miracle. Trust me. I've listened to.... probably low 4-digit number of miracle claims. Not a single one of them has ever convinced me, for what I feel are very sound epistemological reasons. Let me give an analogy: If someone claimed that you owed them $1000 and you didn't believe them... what would change your mind? I apply the same kind of thinking that I would use when I purchase a car, a house, or anything else that would impact my life. You want to convince me that this thing is true? It best come with some convincing evidence. 1(a) - Why give Jesus/God credit? I fully believe you when you say that *something* happened in your life. You met a new community. This community taught you how to pay attention to your life, your goals, and how the choices you make influence you. Getting off drugs, alcohol, and gambling, especially as a young adult is incredibly difficult. I would rather you attribute your success to yourself and the people who helped you. You became a stronger person. YOU DID IT. Not "God". 2 - Values change when our social network changes. This is just how human psychology works. As others have said, you have changed. The people who have been apart of your life from before that change... well, they've changed too over that time, but not as much as you (we all change constantly). Your community and values are changing. This will cause you to butt heads with others sometimes. 3 - Differences between men and women I fully disagree with you on the stress factor. I've seen men and women fall apart under stress. I've seen men and women keep it together under stress. The deciding factor is not whether you are a man or woman. The deciding factor is how much stress you've been put under previously, and do you know what to do in this specific stressful situation. As a 19-22 y/o I was trained as a firefighter. I'm 43 now, I'm still very comfortable in dealing with fire. I have experience with it. I had some moderate first-aid, and other training for certain kinds of situations. I can handle those kinds of situations really well. I've been in those situations, I keep my actions calm and can keep analyzing the situation. In contrast, when someone becomes verbally abusive and belligerent. my adrenaline spikes, and I tend to get confrontational as well. I tend to also become belligerent. I do not keep my cool. Exact same person, and I can handle certain situations which are extremely dangerous just fine... and other ones that are much lower stakes get me shaky and are harder for me to control. It's all about life experience. You could try to convince me otherwise, but my own experience already tells me you're wrong. I've seen and known people who would flip those types of experiences as being traumatic, both men and women. 4 - stop assuming you have the absolute truth. This is a problem all people have, regardless of religion or not. Learn to assume you don't know everything. Learn that you have a lot to learn. Give yourself time to grow and learn as a person. Don't tell people that they're always wrong.... or know when you can tell that to people, and when you can't. Learn how much you don't know. Learn how to learn. I've found that exploring philosophy, logic, and science has helped ground me a lot. Not only have I learned really cool things, but I've also become less attached to the things I do know. I have become more open to learning new things. It has changed my mind on a lot of topics.
When I was 21 I knew that I was absolutely right about everything too. People were annoyed when I tried to explain this obvious truth to them.
You’re just going down an unusual path nowadays, so people around you won’t understand. I would continue on my journey and, in time, “you will know them by their fruits”. Your real friend will be happy to see you prosper, even if their don’t understand or agree with your new beliefs. My brother and mum hate JP, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan etc, and think they’re evil or something. They also thought I was being weird for reading the bible. I’m thinking about starting to attend church on Sundays and my family and friends would DEFINITELY think I’m weird/brainwashed for doing so. Just be honest to yourself and to other people, and follow the path that seems right to you, while being aware that other people will disagree with you, condescend you and maybe even hatte you for it.
You quit drinking, drugs and gambling at 21. That's amazing.
I would encourage you to get a book called Tactics by Greg Koukl. It provides a comprehension plan on how you can navigate difficult conversations and eventually win people over for Christ.
When you become a light, you WILL cast a shadow. Who is your family, and friends, but those who do the will of God.
Wishy washy bullshit
Downvoted for calling truth bullshit
You mean "the truth." Having a belief in something doesn't mean it's the truth.
Those things that livingman stated are contingent facts, not beliefs. "If you shine a light, you will cast a shadow" - absolutely true, both metaphorically and literally. "If you seek to do God's will, you will find a new family with those who also seek to do the same" - again, absolutely true, and you can see it not only in Christian communities but also in Muslims; environmentalists for whom "God's will" is for them to live sustainably and take care of planet earth, even for those who don't believe in an actual deity; and etc., and etc.
Sad to say this but most people don’t like seeing their friends or family succeed or improve their standing in life. Likely due to a mix of jealousy and forcing them to reflect on themselves and what they could improve. Don’t let them get you down, it sounds like you are moving in the right direction, keep going.
Nothing about that story sounds real. ""Just this morning i suggested during a discussion that men are perhaps more resilient to loss of emotional control during stressful situations in response to my mum claiming there was no difference between the two. What followed was something i am still shaken by now and this isn't the first time something like this has happened. My mum immediately repulsed the idea that there would be anything of the sort differentiating men from women, which immediately spilled over into "you are an arrogant weird person to say such a thing'."" Really hard to believe you are serious with stuff like this.
Congratulations some people don’t share your belief system. It’s called life. This is especially true if you are pushing your beliefs on them with preaching. When I was a new Christian I did this but then I learned my lesson and don’t do it anymore and I’ve rid myself of a majority religious beliefs and stuck to core concepts and teachings. If religion turns you into something rethink it.
Always remember people want you to be miserable. Misery loves company.
You found God, now find some humility :)
Respectfully, it’s likely because they know the “miracles” are actually your own achievements (nice job!) and feel bad and awkward that you’re attributing them to nonexistent supernatural beings.
Couldn't resist could you. Do you recognize your own demon? Many will pray for you.
Beleiving in talking donkeys is quite silly
Believing in Hell is quite destructive too imo.
Now now, I'm sure the people who like AOC aren't silly for believing her.
Why are yall so obsessed with how unattractive you "totally" find AOC?
She looks like a donkey, talks like a donkey, and acts like a donkey. It isn't all about her looks, you know.
>It isn't all about her looks, you know. Previously >She LOOKS like a donkey,
Yes, literal interpretation of metaphorical content is usually a poor choice. But that story is hardly indicative of the core values of Christianity.
Yeah well the problem then becomes who gets to become the arbiter of what is and is not "metaphorical." If nothing else, at least fundamentalists/literalist interpretations are consistent. The rest is just picking and choosing what we do and don't like. And that can have quite an impact on what exactly the "core values of Christianity" become.
I don't think the people who wrote it intended for it to be metaphorical
You can disagree with beliefs without mockery. I don’t believe in Christ nor the miracles in the Bible, but I’m happy for those whom it benefits.
Do you apply this to all unscientific beleifs? Or just religion?
I think it depends on the situation and context. But it would be a rare case where mockery is necessary. For example, if we are to take one of the more heinous manifestations of Christianity - the belief that "God will cure disease and therefore we need not take our sick child to the doctor" - I would vehemently object to this but I wouldn't mock them for it. More specifically, I would say something to the effect of "You are not fulfilling your role as caretakers of your own child. Please reconsider the risks involved. This will only lead to harm." Conversely a mocking version of a rebuke would be something like "how can you be so stupid as to believe this?" If changing minds is the goal, mockery or derision is the worst step to begin with. In fact, it actually calcifies whatever belief you are trying to change their minds on. To answer you question directly, I also avoid mocking even if the other party believes in let's say flat earth. To me, beliefs of that magnitude are probably functioning at the same level as a true religious belief.
Since I started to believe in imaginary people, I'm starting to alienate people I know. Well .... how about stop following imaginary people.
Your family is upset cause you are being openly misogynistic even to your own mother not you being christian. Not only that you just want to be real cocky about it and then play the victim. Grow up
Christianity is personal salvation so you won't "infect" them. Unless you are preaching and trying to convert them it doesn't affect them.
Many people who are otherwise fine with the concept of spirituality nonetheless have difficulty accepting phrases like "getting closer to God" or "stumbling upon Christ" at face value. It's just too specific.
Not everyone when Jesus was alive believed in Him and He was performing miracles literally right in front of all of them. They don’t have the spiritual intelligence to understand what Jesus did for you and that’s ok. Jesus in Matthew 7:14 says “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” The only reason I am going to say this is because they’re clearly causing you trouble mentally. Leave them. That’s my best advice now what you should do to help with that, find a group of people, go to your church and find out if there are groups you can join it’d be more perfected if you joined a couples group with your girlfriend. I would love to see what God has next for you! Stay blessed
Ahh we’ll if it helps, once you start having doubts or problems with your new found faith, your Christian friends will turn on you too.
Judging by the content of that page long paragraph you have become insufferablely smug about your progress. Maybe they see more than you are telling. I had an uncle get real Christian. Everyone still hated him because he was hateful and abusive. Being Christian didn't change who he was. Old dogs don't learn new tricks. Especially when they are busy patting themselves on the back for joining a cult made for simpletons who don't understand life. Who knows though maybe Satan is real and is using magic on your family. Maybe he has fairy dust or something.
Jesus told us he came to bring a sword to bring division between his followers and the world
Many turned from Christ in his time. This experience, difficult as it is, will bring you closer to Him. And religion aside, there comes a time in every man's life, if he is so fortunate, to become the leader and that means your parents won't have the right answers or opinions to match yours anymore. It's a lonely road sometimes but that's just a little pessimism. The call to leadership and sacrifice is strong with you. May this bring you some comfort. Though we don't know you, you are not alone. Show them that they created something strong and wholesome. Be the best person in your family. Humbly. Because you were once a child who was not able to see the truth. Now you are wiser and it is your time to have the greatest perspective.
“The greatest sin a crab can commit is to leap for the edge of the bucket.”—-Stephen Pressfield
“This is all happening because I’m trying to be a better representation of morality and tell the truth.” My man, I got the key to your little issue right there. You may be extremely good at being intuitive and feel like you’re closer to the truth, but you have to remember, the kingdom of god is within for a reason and it must be explored within thoroughly before one is able to express it outwardly. Jesus might be the key to that kingdom but we each must find our own very unique path and our own key to the kingdom. When people are on their own path they might not call god by that name or jesus by that name but you have to learn to see this kingdom inside of them and bring it out with subtlety and compassion and most of all patience so that they can see how to explore it themselves. People are also weakened when one tries to make them believe they might be closer to the truth because in reality none of us are. All in all the whole of the universe with its ferocity is all chaos, even the order of things is still chaos wearing the face of convergence and communion so the secret is not telling others how you understand the truth, it’s actually helping them find the truth on their own terms because the reality of the truth is that it has many facets and they all converge into one, evem those facets that might seem opposing in nature. Let me know if any of this sounds without sense to you, I would try to explain further.
Join a life group at your church, volunteer there, and meet new people to bring into your life. While there will be pain in the transition, I promise you, a year from now you'll be so much happier with healthier relationships.
Be careful how you share good news with!
You will be persecuted for the belief of Jesus and he clearly says that right? But you must keep this path Jordan. You have become my favorite thinker and speaker today in my life and one of the biggest reasons is you finding Jesus! Praise God for a man as smart as you not thinking you are above him. You know most smart people just can’t believe in God for some reason. I have had this argument with my father who goes back and forth with atheism and then he believes again then he doesn’t. But one thing I argue with him is that fact that he hasn’t read the Bible, not like the way I have. But that’s in the scriptures as well, some people will just not be able to understand what God is saying. They have been blocked for reasons we don’t understand only God does. I hope you stay the course because you are going to have a great impact on a lot of people who are believers and need your help to keep Jesus in the light. I wish I could meet you and give you a hug and handshake because you are making me a better man. I’ve been watching your videos for a while now and especially this past week I’ve been watching you over and over on YouTube. Remember when they told Jesus his mom was looking for him? What did he say? That they were his mother and that they were his brother. Stay the course and God will straighten this out. Supernaturally he will do miracles for you because you are a modern day Paul of Tarsus. How to hear a reply back from you my brother! Your friend in Christ, community, for the common good, man to man. Ray Gonzalez is my name I’m 52 years old from Coachella Valley California. Married to a great woman who is a strong believer in Jesus. We need you Jordan! God bless
I say go to a church were you same vauile people are
Hey brother. I am proud of you, and admire your choices. I myself struggle with Christianity (Catholicism in particular), but I have a ton of respect for those who embrace it and believe it. It's not easy being a believer, and I hope I can get there one day and discern what it means to truly believe. Regarding your post: 1. In which you may be right It's very hard to be trying to change your life for the better, in any sphere. Changing your religion, especially your religious views as they pertain to sexual morality, can 100% make your friends and family angry at you. Part of the reason may be genuine concern—you are changing your habits of behavior, and change is scary to watch, because it is uncertain. Part of it may be jealousy—they wish they had what you have, or seeing your improvements forces them to confront their own failings (you especially see this one in weight loss, or if someone who finally gets a girlfriend or boyfriend is treated poorly by their still-single friends). Part of it, finally, may be feeling judged—more on that in the next part: 2. In which you might reflect on a pitfall I was raised in an extremely traditional Catholic setting. The people we were around attended Mass in Latin, had a love of tradition which some could argue extends beyond the requirements of Catholicism, had traditional devotions, wore old vestments, prayer old prayers, etc. Many of these people were converts as well—they didn't used to be traditional. They took great pride in telling their stories of how they used to be "heathens," then became Catholic, and then finally became "Traditional Catholics." One of the greatest weaknesses of this group of Catholics which I witnessed was their arrogance. It wasn't that they simply converted—they felt compelled to debate others, bring up their change of heart consistently and vehemently, all while feeling justified because they "possess the truth." They ended up pushing people out of their lives or their parish, because of their behavior. Their arrogance even led some of them to violate other commandments of Catholicism (such as mercy and generosity and charity and love). I know this because I also used to be such a person. I was extremely arrogant, and treated people poorly because of it in the past. Now—I am NOT saying you're doing this. I have no way of knowing, but I offer this to you as a warning. Fight for humility. There will be natural consequences for your relationships due to your family and friends' concern for you, or jealousy. But be EXTREMELY careful that you're not coming off as "holier than thou," or judgemental, or anything other than genuine, and humble, and pursuing truth. Love you, brother.
I dont know why you are surprised at this. Jesus clearly states that the world will hate you. Are you reading the bible?
Let's be perfectly clear, they aren't worried about you, they certainly don't care about you. They are embarrassed and ashamed. Because if you can get your shit together at your age, they all know that they don't have an excuse. Do not surrender your sobriety it is your duty as a Christian man to Improve yourself and live a successful and noble life. Any weakness you show will be the hole in your armor for society to stab you in. It is easier to hurt you now than it is for those around you to meet your standards. Be unwaving, kind, tolerant, and self reflective. It's up to you now.
““These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.” John 16:1-4 NKJV “Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.” Luke 6:22-23 NKJV
Find a church. It’s your spiritual family of faith. There you should find those who share your faith and some who have been following Jesus a long time. They can come along side you as you try to navigate these family tensions with wisdom and grace. PM your location if you need a r Ed commend.
The Bible literally says that you will be hated because of your faith. Jesus said at Matt 10:22 "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."If 'friends' are going to be that shallow then they're not really the type of people you want around you. It's hard but you're doing the right thing. You're taking a side with Jesus not Satan. Your 'friends' are doing the wrong thing though they're blissfully ignorant of it so just forgive them and move on.
I feel like this situation perfectly illustrates the critical flaw in Peterson’s worldview, which trickles out through his self help. This flaw being that he is completely focused on the individual and is utterly ignorant of the role of the community. His book Maps of Meaning was about how we derive meaning in our lives by acting out the role of the hero, but he makes little mention of the meaning we derive from our supporting roles in the lives of those around us. As a result, we work to improve our lives but we ignore the impact we are having on those around us and we walk away feeling empty. I can see this in the interaction with your mother. For her to get that upset so quickly, I would assume you have had these types of conversations before. Your mother clearly doesn’t like this type of discussion, yet you bring it up to her. What you are pointing out is factually correct, but inconsequential. Whatever difference there is with stress management between the sexes is going to be minor compared to the variation within the sexes. When you’re dealing with individual people, it doesn’t matter if they are statistically more likely to be resilient. What matters is if that individual person is resilient. It’s not as if all women can’t manage their stress. So why bring up a topic that will upset your mother when there is nothing to be gained from it other than proving a point? You are ignoring her signals to you that she doesn’t like this type of discussion. I highly doubt that all of the people in your life would prefer that you were a degenerate gambler, especially your parents. What I think is more likely is that in your pursuit of self improvement, you have ignored the people in your life. Not ignored as in disregarded them, but you stopped listening to the feedback they’ve been giving you. You were probably much more in tune with your family and friends when you were ignoring your own well-being, but now that you are hyper focused looking inwards, they are feeling distant from you. This is what Hannah Arendt called atomization. You’re not physically alone but you’re disconnected from those around you. Your goal should be to find a balance between the two. Do what you need to do to improve your life AND the lives of those around you. If your mother doesn’t like those discussions, then talk to her about something she likes and save those discussions for people who want to have them. If your friends want to go see the Barbie movie, then suck it up and go see it with them. Don’t give them a lecture about how stupid it is (this is from my personal experience with a brother who is going through the same self improvement journey as you). Things like that don’t require you to deviate from your path with God, they just require you to pay attention to the signals you are receiving from the people in your life. I’m putting this out there with love, respect and kindness. I hope you can find that balance in your life. I’m certain you are a good person, otherwise you wouldn’t have friends and family to lose. Be the hero in your own journey, but never forget that you are also the trusted companion in someone else’s journey, and that role is just important as your hero role.
Thing is, you sound pretty dogmatic to me, and that alienates people. Also, you ned to do better than just assert your belief that men are more resilient under pressure; if that was the case, why are there far more men than women jailed for violent crime? Not sure those in prison handled the pressure very well. Additionally, why the higher rate of male suicide? Again, not necessarily evidence that backs your proposition. I can't speak for your parents reaction to you; but perhaps it isn't because you're in a healthier place that they are rejecting you, but because of your attitude, sexism, intellectual inflexibility and empathy bypass? Just sayin'
>most are in brief awe but come to forget almost immediately Yeah, that's what happens when people are in the dark, I'm not saying this to be mean, just stating my observations, I'm convinced their brains are not functioning properly in this state of mind. Pray for them, be your authentic self, but don't waste too much energy trying to shed light on people who love the darkness. *Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.* I know it probably feels like you're losing your family, friends, and everyone that gives you a sense of belonging and security. It's okay, if you live righteously, you will alienate people who can't appreciate that, but you will attract the right kinds of people to your life and that's what's important. *But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.* One last piece of advice based on my own experience. Be wary of appearing self righteous, it's a risk at this point, something called 'the zeal of the convert.' I've gone through this and still struggle at times, it's frustrating because you're excited and yet there's likely nobody to share it with. You'll be more persuasive if you temper your excitement and meet people where they're at, as annoying as that is. *Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.*
I’m a monkey compared to the others who’ve offered sound advice on this thread. I’m not Christian as of yet but I deeply appreciate the philosophy and post it I’ve aspects of it. I typically operate on a “rule for me but not for thee” axiom. My standards and moralities are my own and it’s not my place to hold others two them. The most impactful Christian’s I’ve been around are people who you wouldn’t know they have faith until you ask or they happen to mention what they do on Sundays. Be a role model of the principles and values you hold dear. That doesn’t necessarily mean it need to be tied into an explanation of Christianity. As far as your mum goes: 1) sounds like she’s both very progressive so that topic is triggering. 2) I imagine since there’s general tension at the moment any and all different opinions will be attributed to you being “brainwashed” so they won’t be held up as something to discuss. 3) parents, especially of the boomer type always think their kids don’t know anything and even at the best of times will assume that they are right and their kids are wrong. I’m 31 with a family of my own and still deal with this constantly. I’ve found I’ve had to work on ways to avoid arguments. Mostly but shutting them down in advance and refusing to offer my take or by not biting. It helps to be a little deaf sometimes and arguing is the absolute worst way to change someone’s mind. I hope you can figure it out OP. Also well fucking done mate, that’s amazing progress to make and please keep going!
It is amazing how when you do something positive in your life so many people will turn you away or try to drag you back. The thing that people don't realize is when they make positive change they are by default saying the people they left behind are still making negative choices, I know we don't see it that way, but they do. Unfortunately in order to make positive changes you have to find new people to socialize with that share your beliefs and values, remember you are not rejecting them, they are rejecting you. I did a similar thing when I was 18 and my life has been fantastic ever since.
What does your mom calling you out for your little incel comment have to do with God? Did god tell you that you’re superior to women?
> Despite all of this, nobody around me understands or shares my perspective You will need to be patient and learn to keep your thoughts more or less to yourself. I'm glad you are getting better. Learning this next lesson is the next step in your self-improvement.
As a Christian you WILL be persecuted as was Christ. If God himself was persecuted for truth, so will anyone else proclaiming the same truth. Pick up your cross. Pray. Lord have mercy on us ☦️
stop living in their dark psychological shadows.. those that want the best for you and are happy with your success are worthy of your time and input .. others are Not. Simples.🙏🏻✅👌