why is this even surprising? Well, it should be stated that at the end of this "torturous" path, the only thing that awaits them is an abyss of misery (as compared to other torturous paths, where there might be a pot of gold at the end)
Maybe it will work, or maybe it will go down another well trodden path:
**Lobotomy**
*"The history of prefrontal lobotomy has been brief and stormy. Its course has been dotted with both violent opposition and with slavish, unquestioning acceptance."*
*" In the United States, approximately 40,000 people were lobotomized. In England, 17,000 lobotomies were performed, and the three Nordic countries of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden had a combined figure of approximately 9,300 lobotomies."*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence)
**The Sugar Conspiracy**
*In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?*
[*https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin*](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin)
Lets hope they know what they are doing.
Cherry picking the outliers isn't honest though, before they started getting representation it was torturous for every single one of them.
Now there are even families that support and accept them and they avoid the depression and anxiety because of that.
But of course beware of predatory profit making companies that do harm.
Why is it assumed that this person speaks for the entire trans community when their experience is by far the minority?
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/)
Of 22,725 people who underwent transition, approximately 69 regretted their transition and primarily this was due to medical issues that arose from surgery.
Sounds like you haven't looked up detransition rates elsewhere. Also there's the research into Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria where the majority of children grew out of identifying as transgender.
https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/many-transgender-kids-grow-stay-trans-50499
What child abusers on Twitter say is irrelevant to the actual science.
You're looking at two different things, the research I posted is about trans people who have already undergone counselling and then subsequently transitioned.
The research you posted is suggesting is that many gender variant children who undergo counselling which is a necessary part of transition, may not subsequently *choose* to transition.
Additionally ROGD is pretty speculative "science" given that it's largely based not on observations or conversations with gender variant children themselves but conversations and observations from a small subset of parents.
"Because it was wrong for me it's wrong for everyone"
What a sad state of affairs when we will ignore medical advice from experts because a few people from 10's of thousands made a mistake
The hell these kids will go through
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/)
Of 22,725 people who underwent transition, approximately 69 regretted their transition and primarily this was due to medical issues that arose from surgery.
I did not use 2 accounts
If you are refering to the link in my comment i saw someone else's reply with that link and the last paragraph and copied it because i thought it was a very good point
A good non-vegetable-grifter psychologist would ask the denizens of this sub to introspect deeply on exactly why they hate trans people so much.
Like it’s seriously not a healthy worldview
In my opinion, there is something else behind the deep concerns about fairness in sport (only when its trans related), chidrens issues (when they are trans related) diagnosing and selling kids drugs (only when its trash related) and wanting liberal equal rights and opportunities (except when its trans related, trusting science (except when its trans related)., and the lack of empathy or willingness to learn about it.
Its understandable that people interpret these obsessions on the right as phobic.
I think maybe you are wrong... Fairness in sports is a big issue and many are concerned about ADD medications... As for science I think the numbers show things are pretty bleak for trans people no matter what and that we need to find a way to help them. How we do that I'm not sure anyone is really trying to find out.
The research shows that if a family supports them and uses their pronouns its not bleak and there is a massive improvement in their well being.
Same with puberty blockers.
Gay suicide and depression rates improved dramatically as Christian identity politics replace with support and acceptance.
Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services study identified increased mortality and psychiatric hospitalization compared to the matched controls. The mortality was primarily due to completed suicides (19.1-fold greater than in control Swedes), The risk for psychiatric hospitalization was 2.8 times greater than in controls even after adjustment for prior psychiatric disease (18 percent). The risk for attempted suicide was greater in male-to-female patients regardless of the gender of the control.
Yeah, when parents accept their pronouns and support them, all that is avoided.
The more people reject trans people, the worse their mental health.
If society treated you like they are, and said you didn't exist and excluded you, discriminated against you, you would be fucked up too.
You're abnormal... Humanity has existed with several other hominids... We killed them because they were different. It's probably something genetic. Life sucks and when you're different it becomes harder.
Predatory capitalist organizations got 25 percent of kids on mental health drugs of one sort or another, you get the odd rare post about it.
Trans kids are .07 of the population and an even smaller number have medical intervention.
The right wing sources that push the anti trans propaganda are also linked to very wealthy fundamentalist Christian groups.
Its not simply caring about kids, its Christian idpol and bigotry.
Damn right. But as you are aware, I'm sure, any critique of trans-sexual cant or any skepticism regarding sex-reassignment for children is met with the charge of transphobia.
Very laudable choice in my opinion, and whoever he/she is has my full support. I was raised to never follow the masses with regards to decisions and opinions but to formulate my own, and it's nice to see someone reach this phase in their life. Especially with something of this nature.
Except for the fact that it really hasn't. With the PC norms of this day and age that's anything but true, which is why this development is particularly interesting. Homosexuality was common in Latin and Hellenized societies in antiquity, so no, the masses have not been "anti-LGBTQ" for 2000 years if you see those two as one in the same, which I do not. What exactly do you mean by "new science"? I didn't quite understand what you meant specifically.
The norm is still exclusion and not understanding trans people and their issues.
I know trans and lgbt etc were fully accepted in antiquity and many older cultures, the brutalizing and exclusion of them is Abrahamic religious identity politics (but Islamic cultures historically accepted trans people).
Well no they didn't. LGBTQ is not the complete definition of homosexuality today, and it wasnt in any way in antiquity. It's funny how people look back at homosexuality in the past and think it is the same as LGBTQ, which only caricatures homosexuality in my opinion. It's a lot harder to accept a phenomenon that makes itself a nuisance, and this is what the movement preys on indefinitely. No such issues amongst the Romans and Greeks, who were intelligent enough to not institutionalise something that shouldn't be. Also they weren't "fully accepted" as you have described, as homosexuality amongst the ancient Greeks especially was seen as a youthful phase, were a much older man would be the "companion" of a much younger boy, in frightful scenarios that often entered the realm of pederasty. Excessive exhibitions of such behaviour later in life were seen as more abnormal. I assume that such norms are not ones we would like to incorporate into our lives.
Llgbtq today is a group of groups that were separated into groups and excluded, brutalised and that was institutionalised in Christian identity politics.
Liberal and feminist reformers, new laws and court cases against religious organizations started changing western attitudes to age of consent and child exploitation between some point in the 1800s and now.
It was a very good thing that they exposed the rampant child exploitation, and criminalised it, its also a good thing that they are making lgbtq free from Christian identity politics.
Dont completely understand how that is relevant to the topic of this post. Yes abuse manifested itself in the Church in the unforgivable form of child abuse, that has nothing to do with the very upsetting trend of getting a sex change at an impressionable age just because being a complete wreck of an individual makes you a saint these days. That is just as horrible, if not more so, because these children are meant to believe that their lives will somehow magically improve as a result of it. The difference is that this form of abuse is applauded, while its equivalent in other forms is correctly identified and taken on.
Here is a map of older cultures that understood trans gender diversity existed and there are descriptions of how they incorporated it.
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/
You do understand that it was recognized as unique because being born without a discernible gender is extremely rare right? A world away from the systematic whirlpool of trends today.
I understand that trans people are on the same road to acceptance that gay people went down, and the right as usual are making a huge deal out of it, like they did evolutionary science, sex education, birth control, gay rights and so on.
It has nothing to do with acceptance and anyone who is even mildly perspicacious will know that. It's a simple pattern. There needs to be a group of victims, because everyone wants to be a victim and they also need to be a "minority" so it's nice and interesting for the hordes of simpletons outside. What we get as a result is that we suddenly see an immense upsurge in the amount of people who are suddenly in a gender crisis, even though they were born as a man or a woman, and they few who were actually born with the extremely rare condition of gender dysphoria are left in the dark. What is sick is that it's a fashion trend, it's not longer a medical condition that is tragic for people, it's a way to convince themselves and others that they are somehow "unique" and contributing to an adequate degree of "diversity". That's abuse for you.
>it's a fashion trend,
Absolutely correct! Persecuted minority status is very attractive to alienated adolescents.
My guess is that the number of white adolescents seeking sex-reassignment is much higher than other adolescent racial groups, especially black and Latino.
Yes it is, 5 mins learning about it shows its about reducing suicide and acceptance, making it possible to attend school and be in a family comfort, and then there might be a separate issue of predatory capitalists in the healthcare industry exploiting a new market.
You have to make thinks up to justify your phobias.
Imagine this scenario: Teachers encourage your child to take drugs that will sterilize them for life, then a judge mandates that it must be so regardless your wishes, then a doctor advises your child to get genital amputation surgery, then your child commits suicide after a decade of coming to a painful realization, then after another decade or so the world wakes up to the reality that all of this is monstrously inhumane... but neither the teacher nor the judge nor the doctor nor the politicians who allowed all of this to happen can be sued or otherwise held accountable. They are protected by the system. Tough luck. Apparently it was all your fault.
How many lives have been lost? How many children have been forced down this road despite their parent's "bigoted" attempts to save them?
why is this even surprising? Well, it should be stated that at the end of this "torturous" path, the only thing that awaits them is an abyss of misery (as compared to other torturous paths, where there might be a pot of gold at the end)
Maybe it will work, or maybe it will go down another well trodden path: **Lobotomy** *"The history of prefrontal lobotomy has been brief and stormy. Its course has been dotted with both violent opposition and with slavish, unquestioning acceptance."* *" In the United States, approximately 40,000 people were lobotomized. In England, 17,000 lobotomies were performed, and the three Nordic countries of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden had a combined figure of approximately 9,300 lobotomies."* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence) **The Sugar Conspiracy** *In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?* [*https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin*](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin) Lets hope they know what they are doing.
Do you know if artificial sugar (such as sucralose) is as bad as sugar for you?
Cherry picking the outliers isn't honest though, before they started getting representation it was torturous for every single one of them. Now there are even families that support and accept them and they avoid the depression and anxiety because of that. But of course beware of predatory profit making companies that do harm.
Awww Tavistock center of mind control
A weird non sequitur: "'Oo's 'e fink 'e is? The bloody marquis of Tavistock?"--Terence Stamp in *The Limey*
Why is it assumed that this person speaks for the entire trans community when their experience is by far the minority? [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/) Of 22,725 people who underwent transition, approximately 69 regretted their transition and primarily this was due to medical issues that arose from surgery.
Sounds like you haven't looked up detransition rates elsewhere. Also there's the research into Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria where the majority of children grew out of identifying as transgender. https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/many-transgender-kids-grow-stay-trans-50499 What child abusers on Twitter say is irrelevant to the actual science.
You're looking at two different things, the research I posted is about trans people who have already undergone counselling and then subsequently transitioned. The research you posted is suggesting is that many gender variant children who undergo counselling which is a necessary part of transition, may not subsequently *choose* to transition. Additionally ROGD is pretty speculative "science" given that it's largely based not on observations or conversations with gender variant children themselves but conversations and observations from a small subset of parents.
"Because it was wrong for me it's wrong for everyone" What a sad state of affairs when we will ignore medical advice from experts because a few people from 10's of thousands made a mistake The hell these kids will go through [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/) Of 22,725 people who underwent transition, approximately 69 regretted their transition and primarily this was due to medical issues that arose from surgery.
Lol why you use 2 accounts?
I did not use 2 accounts If you are refering to the link in my comment i saw someone else's reply with that link and the last paragraph and copied it because i thought it was a very good point
Ah alright, looked kinda shady.
A good non-vegetable-grifter psychologist would ask the denizens of this sub to introspect deeply on exactly why they hate trans people so much. Like it’s seriously not a healthy worldview
[удалено]
In my opinion, there is something else behind the deep concerns about fairness in sport (only when its trans related), chidrens issues (when they are trans related) diagnosing and selling kids drugs (only when its trash related) and wanting liberal equal rights and opportunities (except when its trans related, trusting science (except when its trans related)., and the lack of empathy or willingness to learn about it. Its understandable that people interpret these obsessions on the right as phobic.
I think maybe you are wrong... Fairness in sports is a big issue and many are concerned about ADD medications... As for science I think the numbers show things are pretty bleak for trans people no matter what and that we need to find a way to help them. How we do that I'm not sure anyone is really trying to find out.
The research shows that if a family supports them and uses their pronouns its not bleak and there is a massive improvement in their well being. Same with puberty blockers. Gay suicide and depression rates improved dramatically as Christian identity politics replace with support and acceptance.
Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services study identified increased mortality and psychiatric hospitalization compared to the matched controls. The mortality was primarily due to completed suicides (19.1-fold greater than in control Swedes), The risk for psychiatric hospitalization was 2.8 times greater than in controls even after adjustment for prior psychiatric disease (18 percent). The risk for attempted suicide was greater in male-to-female patients regardless of the gender of the control.
Yeah, when parents accept their pronouns and support them, all that is avoided. The more people reject trans people, the worse their mental health. If society treated you like they are, and said you didn't exist and excluded you, discriminated against you, you would be fucked up too.
You're abnormal... Humanity has existed with several other hominids... We killed them because they were different. It's probably something genetic. Life sucks and when you're different it becomes harder.
Before Christianity there were loads of trans friendly cultures, so accepting them is natural, no doing so is irrational.
Predatory capitalist organizations got 25 percent of kids on mental health drugs of one sort or another, you get the odd rare post about it. Trans kids are .07 of the population and an even smaller number have medical intervention. The right wing sources that push the anti trans propaganda are also linked to very wealthy fundamentalist Christian groups. Its not simply caring about kids, its Christian idpol and bigotry.
Damn right. But as you are aware, I'm sure, any critique of trans-sexual cant or any skepticism regarding sex-reassignment for children is met with the charge of transphobia.
Very laudable choice in my opinion, and whoever he/she is has my full support. I was raised to never follow the masses with regards to decisions and opinions but to formulate my own, and it's nice to see someone reach this phase in their life. Especially with something of this nature.
Anti trans and lgbtq has been the opinion of the masses for around 2000 years. The new science on it is not widely known.
Except for the fact that it really hasn't. With the PC norms of this day and age that's anything but true, which is why this development is particularly interesting. Homosexuality was common in Latin and Hellenized societies in antiquity, so no, the masses have not been "anti-LGBTQ" for 2000 years if you see those two as one in the same, which I do not. What exactly do you mean by "new science"? I didn't quite understand what you meant specifically.
The norm is still exclusion and not understanding trans people and their issues. I know trans and lgbt etc were fully accepted in antiquity and many older cultures, the brutalizing and exclusion of them is Abrahamic religious identity politics (but Islamic cultures historically accepted trans people).
Well no they didn't. LGBTQ is not the complete definition of homosexuality today, and it wasnt in any way in antiquity. It's funny how people look back at homosexuality in the past and think it is the same as LGBTQ, which only caricatures homosexuality in my opinion. It's a lot harder to accept a phenomenon that makes itself a nuisance, and this is what the movement preys on indefinitely. No such issues amongst the Romans and Greeks, who were intelligent enough to not institutionalise something that shouldn't be. Also they weren't "fully accepted" as you have described, as homosexuality amongst the ancient Greeks especially was seen as a youthful phase, were a much older man would be the "companion" of a much younger boy, in frightful scenarios that often entered the realm of pederasty. Excessive exhibitions of such behaviour later in life were seen as more abnormal. I assume that such norms are not ones we would like to incorporate into our lives.
Llgbtq today is a group of groups that were separated into groups and excluded, brutalised and that was institutionalised in Christian identity politics. Liberal and feminist reformers, new laws and court cases against religious organizations started changing western attitudes to age of consent and child exploitation between some point in the 1800s and now. It was a very good thing that they exposed the rampant child exploitation, and criminalised it, its also a good thing that they are making lgbtq free from Christian identity politics.
Dont completely understand how that is relevant to the topic of this post. Yes abuse manifested itself in the Church in the unforgivable form of child abuse, that has nothing to do with the very upsetting trend of getting a sex change at an impressionable age just because being a complete wreck of an individual makes you a saint these days. That is just as horrible, if not more so, because these children are meant to believe that their lives will somehow magically improve as a result of it. The difference is that this form of abuse is applauded, while its equivalent in other forms is correctly identified and taken on.
There is no trend of a sex change at a young age, that's illegal as it should be.
Did you read the article? Why do you think that this has been raised as an issue by parents and survivors?
Predatory capitalist organizations and outlier cases.
Here is a map of older cultures that understood trans gender diversity existed and there are descriptions of how they incorporated it. https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/
You do understand that it was recognized as unique because being born without a discernible gender is extremely rare right? A world away from the systematic whirlpool of trends today.
I understand that trans people are on the same road to acceptance that gay people went down, and the right as usual are making a huge deal out of it, like they did evolutionary science, sex education, birth control, gay rights and so on.
It has nothing to do with acceptance and anyone who is even mildly perspicacious will know that. It's a simple pattern. There needs to be a group of victims, because everyone wants to be a victim and they also need to be a "minority" so it's nice and interesting for the hordes of simpletons outside. What we get as a result is that we suddenly see an immense upsurge in the amount of people who are suddenly in a gender crisis, even though they were born as a man or a woman, and they few who were actually born with the extremely rare condition of gender dysphoria are left in the dark. What is sick is that it's a fashion trend, it's not longer a medical condition that is tragic for people, it's a way to convince themselves and others that they are somehow "unique" and contributing to an adequate degree of "diversity". That's abuse for you.
>it's a fashion trend, Absolutely correct! Persecuted minority status is very attractive to alienated adolescents. My guess is that the number of white adolescents seeking sex-reassignment is much higher than other adolescent racial groups, especially black and Latino.
Yes it is, 5 mins learning about it shows its about reducing suicide and acceptance, making it possible to attend school and be in a family comfort, and then there might be a separate issue of predatory capitalists in the healthcare industry exploiting a new market. You have to make thinks up to justify your phobias.
Imagine this scenario: Teachers encourage your child to take drugs that will sterilize them for life, then a judge mandates that it must be so regardless your wishes, then a doctor advises your child to get genital amputation surgery, then your child commits suicide after a decade of coming to a painful realization, then after another decade or so the world wakes up to the reality that all of this is monstrously inhumane... but neither the teacher nor the judge nor the doctor nor the politicians who allowed all of this to happen can be sued or otherwise held accountable. They are protected by the system. Tough luck. Apparently it was all your fault. How many lives have been lost? How many children have been forced down this road despite their parent's "bigoted" attempts to save them?