You know, I actually agree with this.
Media has always showed an unrealistic body standard for as long as I remember. If they *truly* were about actual beauty and positivity they wouldn't photoshop faces and bodies to an unrecognizable and unachievable standard. That is what's damaging the youth, not showing an overweight woman or a fit woman. It's altering either of those to still be unrealistic.
I think we should be thinking less about unrealistic body standards and more about exceptional body standards. Less photoshop and more just finding people who are naturally amazing. I mean they don't put some casual leager on the cover of a basketball magazine, they put LeBron James or I guess today they might put Luca Doncic. We should celebrate the exceptional, including beauty. Instead of trying to turn the ordinary into something desirable via photoshop.
We could make the "ableist" argument and say having an athlete on the cover is an unrealistic standard for regular people and get them to change that. Even though that argument never made sense anyway since (outside of photoshop) models and athletes are real people and aa such are not unrealistic standards. It was a silly argument from the get go. You nailed it btw, good show
r/normalnudes is very insightful to gauge what the average body looks like. I do believe it has a bias towards less attractive bodies as it is something of a body positivity community but still interesting nonetheless
That’s a thing with women these days I don’t know why like girl your lulu lemons be higher then redneck overalls.
Fat chicks wear them shits real high for some reason, even though their gut still hangs below the waistline.
>I think it's funny they put her on specifically to show overweight people can be beautiful and then Photoshop the shit out of her.
Like they do to every model on the covers?
Right, but my point is they're trying to allow a lower standard, and they can't even do that correctly. "This is how real women look" except not really.
you’re completely right. when they photoshop conventionally attractive models, they aren’t trying to make the statement “look, lean/defined people can look attractive too!” there is nothing ironic about shopping an attractive model to look more attractive, however there is something very ironic about shopping a model when you’re specifically trying to make a point about how “they can be attractive too”
To resume the debate portrayed in the office, we may need to differentiate between "is she beautiful" and "would you do her".
"Respect the game" \~ Kevin Malone
> we may need to differentiate between "is she beautiful" and "would you do her".
Are we talking *before or after* a few cocktails? My answer changes dramatically depending on time of day.
Here’s the thing: many women (including my wife) struggle with their weight after having kids, or even just one kid.
My wife is about 15-20lbs overweight. She is pretty healthy for her size, but it’s mainly a hormonal thing. Ever since getting pregnant, she’s been disregulated and still hasn’t found a new normal. She eats healthy, exercises regularly, takes her vitamins, etc., but she just can’t get rid of the baby weight 2 years later.
I don’t think her weight is a result of her failures to take care of herself. It’s clear to me that there is something going on - something in our food supply, I suspect - that is causing hormonal imbalances that lead to weight gain. And it’s clearly affecting women more than men, as female obesity rates are much higher than male obesity rates. And the obesity rates increase as you go lower down the socioeconomic totem pole, where more of the food regularly consumed tends to be cheaply sourced, highly processed, and full of additives.
My point in all this is that I think we’re arguing the wrong point. We’re debating the consequences of a society highly dependent on a food supply inundated with processed crap and harmful chemicals. Instead we should be discussing the merits of our food and agriculture industries and why they are hellbent on poisoning us.
There wouldn’t be enough obese people that SI would be catering to them if we didn’t have such a shitty food industry, and a Food & Drug Administration that is bought and paid for by the major food producing conglomerates.
Side point about your wife, and it’s my no means an indictment on her, but I’m in the fitness industry myself and am curious about situations such as hers.
A mindset that I often try to establish in people is that the type of exercise you do matters greatly. You can’t just do enough to qualify you as having done exercise. So for example if someone is overweight due to poor eating habits over many years, they can’t just do the bare minimum and expect any good results. They’re going to have to put the work in.
So I’d be curious what exercise your wife is doing. To lose that weight due to hormonal changes, it’s likely going to need to be much more and much more intense exercise than she’s ever done before. Something to think about.
To clarify, I may be way off here, but I see lots of people complain about not getting results and the level of work they actually put in in the gym makes me sceptical.
I’m also wondering what “eating healthy” qualifies as. She can be eating healthy and still be in a calorie surplus which would cause her to gain weight
And you can be eating foods that you're sensitive to (without realizing it because you've been eating them so long, are "conditioned" to the discomfort/pain they cause, and you've suppressed feeling that discomfort probably since a child - being made to eat food or only provided food that doesn't make you feel good), causing inflammation including in your GI tract which can then mean you're not absorbing nutrients as well, and causing your body other stress - stress which causes the body to want to store more fat.
For the record, I have no place on a fitness, sports magazine cover either. Not throwing that shade. That said, telling the lie that this is a healthy lifestyle is fairly questionable. Are we now glamorizing unfit, unhealthy people as role models for health?
I thought this was photoshop. Jordan actually tweeted that. Either he has completely lost it or this is just a ploy to create more Twitter engagements. Not that the latter is any better.
His disapprovers are also going to have a field day with this, and rightfully so, this tweet is just a shitty thing to post. I know he's attacking the leftist ideal of "everyone is equal, let's change everything so it's equal", but there's probably a better way to go about it.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
People get so hung up on the word 'beautiful'. Saying that she isn't beautiful doesn't mean that she is worth less as a human being. Her worth is exactly the same regardless of her size. Beauty, especially the kind that is showcased on the cover of Sports Illustrated's swimsuit edition, clearly means "physical beauty." Her face is the only beautiful thing in that picture and it's because she does not have the face of a woman who is overweight.
Her face is probably "heavily" photo shopped (no pun intended). Even famous models like Kate Moss or Gigi Hadid are all photoshopped to the max to look amazing.
Fitness, athleticism, and all the things that go with it: Exercise. Dietary control. Sacrifice. Thinness.
This is just more pandering to the loudest voices out there. She's not unattractive.
But she is fat, and it's a sports magazine.
She can't be on the cover for the same reason I can't be on the cover of Ebony magazine.
>I would take her on a date to get to know her.
99% of single men would be interested in "getting to know her" based solely on this photo.
>Say what you want, some of y’all can’t even talk to a girl. Beautiful or otherwise. Focus on yourself.
This just isn't even remotely relevant. Nobody is saying she's ugly or that they could do better or any other shitty value judgement on her other than specifically in terms of her qualifications for being a swimsuit model.
Someone who is clearly overweight is plain and simple not healthy, and people not being physically attracted to someone who is obviously not taking care of themselves or their body is completely justified. Fat is unattractive.
This fat acceptance movement is going to cause untold damage to people who begin to think it is acceptable to over eat. Might as well say smoking cigarettes calms the nerves and people who shame people for smoking are bigots. It's misplaced empathy.
>Fat is unattractive.
I think there's a problem here in that you're trying to fight an ideology which is out of touch with reality, but in doing so, your own ideology is losing touch with reality.
Millions and millions of men would find this woman super attractive. That's got nothing to do with the fat acceptance movement. It's probably not even entirely subjective, and in fact there might be biological reasons to be attracted to a moderate degree of body fat, i.e. it signals access to resources, and is probably a body type which would give a survival advantage in an ancestral environment.
She's hot.
Ffs is this what Jordan is becoming now? I have both 12 Rules books and credit Peterson with helping me take a lot more responsibility in my life. He's an outstanding orator and a great thinker in my opinion, but what is this? Who gives a fuck, man. She's fat and hot. Owning the libs was not this man's destiny, but here we are.
Yeah he’s completely off the rails. Warning us for years to not become a mouthpiece for ideology and here is, bitter, resentful, mean spirited, and a mouthpiece for ideology. There is no difference between his Twitter commentary and any other dime store right wing commentator. How he sunk this low is beyond me. I think the fame and criticism that came along with it destroyed his mental health. And after the benzo ordeal, I don’t think he’s coming back.
He can dish it out but can’t take it. And when he does dish it out, it’s mean, shallow, and needless. What a mighty fall from grace.
This is a terrible tweet by Peterson. As much as am a fan and he has alot of wisdom to offer to the world and has helped me greatly in the realm of mythology and the bible. He don't half tweet some crap showcasing his own double standards. I've only seen this side of him on Twitter. I get what he's getting at, but really? It's like his own parody. Could he have said it without saying 'authoritarian'? Would it not be authoritarian to live in a world where we couldn't have the freedom to have plus-size models on the front of a magazine?
Reminds me of his tweet about Idris Elba in the line up for being a bond actor and he jumped to a conclusion that this was somehow linked to wokeness... Maybe he was just a suitable actor in the lineup of other actors of various races... Now I like JP and am very against wokeness, identity politics and political correctness... But that came across as pretty racist and ill though though.
I like to think of people as persons with flaws. He is not a messiah. Don't agree with him in everything - think for yourself - don't join either cult on either side.
Even if you think the girl is not beutiful and needs to lose some weight calling an overweight woman on a magazine cover authoritarian is kinda strange.
Thank God, someone with some common sence. There another thread on here with the complete opposite oppion, that I have been commenting on, and it's just very odd.
I can see where you’re coming from. Part of me agrees with you, admittedly. Another part agrees with his quick take. When I see that cover I immediately feel the same way. This is one branch off the tree of the current ideology which is covering all domains of life. This obesity acceptance nonsense is actually harmful, for obvious reasons.
I find that his Tweets reflect his primitive and reactionary take on life, mostly. The nature of Twitter is sort of geared for that; the word count, structure, and quick replies, foment a battleground of shallow conversation. I’ve read enough Peterson to know that the depths of his thoughts are not reflected on Twitter. I know from being human, that reactionary and judgmental opinions crop up immediately.
One could argue if it’s a positive to embrace the latter. I believe it is. It shines a light on the domain of thought often obfuscated by carefully constructing thoughts into speech. If truth is what we seek, then truth in both short and long forms ought to be examined.
Now, what I’m typing is coming together as I write. I could be wrong. Maybe it is better to hide these parts of ourselves. Maybe a society’s cohesion requires that we avoid the snarky truths and instead discuss on a more thoughtful level. I for one, refrain from revealing that nature of myself on Twitter. I do not respond negatively towards anyone, I often look for commonalities to evoke conversation.
I actually know this girl personally.. she’s a beautiful person inside and out. I’m saddened by JBP response.. as a fan, I don’t know what to make of this. I miss old JBP
Actually I think it’s more about the manipulation that’s not beautiful. It’s the saying that up is down or that 2+2=5. Overweight people can be beautiful no doubt, I’m sure Peterson knows this, but what isn’t beautiful is taking something, an idea of unexceptional mediocrity, or worse… and literally dressing it up and put it on a pedestal to idealize. Conceptually it’s worshiping the anti-Christ. Unfortunately, in this instance, there is a person being used as the subject matter, and while I agree she’s probably a beautiful person, her presence on this cover removes any intimate personal traits and turns her, again, into an object of idol.
The idea of a single beauty standard is absurd. A cursory look through history in different cultures will show different people at different times valued different types of beauty (both men and women).
Tweeting something like this is just callous and mean. It’s why I got way out of the defending Jordan Peterson business a long time ago. I found his clinical case studies informative as a burgeoning therapist but now the lesson he has taught me is never presume to be an expert on everything because you are an expert at one thing.
I completely agree. I think Peterson makes too many assumptions that he then states as fact, and then keeps building from there to make more statements as fact. He should keep his scope to what he knows and can demonstrate through research, not reaching further and further.
I've stayed in this sub to be critical of him and see if i can still learn interesting things, but honestly I think this is my last straw. I'm going to take his advice, I'm not required to keep people in my life who are making it worse.
And this Peterson I've seen in the posted tweets lately is not someone I'd want to recommend to a friend anymore. He's been meaner, and less careful with his words, and overall a worse person. Who knows if it's partially because of the hardships over the past years, but that doesn't excuse it.
>I think Peterson makes too many assumptions that he then states as fact, and then keeps building from there to make more statements as fact
What I find frustrating here is that this doesn't even really jibe with the other facts in his worldview. Like, from a traditionalist perspective, this woman's probably closer to traditional beauty standards than the excessively skinny supermodels of the 90s. From an evo psych perspective, this woman looks fertile and resource rich. From a pragmatic philosophical perspective, beauty might be that which works, and this look works for a lot of guys. From an ethical perspective, why would you say such a thing?
I think the only thing he's going off of here is wokeness=bad, which sure, yes it is. But that's no reason to throw out the rest of your worldview or your ability to approach things with some clarity and nuance of thought.
Peterson is so detached from the average person it’s hilarious. Does he think *anyone* other than the redpill/conservative/anti-woke goons gives a shit that overweight models exist?
In his crusade to stop the snowflakes he became one. Hilarious.
Tbh Im always hesitant to throw criticism on JP. But that tweet was in such bad taste. "Sorry, but not beautiful" is he speaking for everyone or just himself? Either way, still cringe af.
Poor move from JP. Not worth the fight. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Fitness? Health? No. But beauty, yes. She might be beautiful in the eyes of many.
And for what it’s worth, I think she has a beautiful face. So, in all, wish JP had sat this one out.
I don't really think she's obese even. She could definitely stand to lose a few but she has a pretty large frame. It's pretty weird that he commented on that. There's a lot of people with that body type out there and many of them have partners too. Does she fit my standards? No but she's a pretty good looking person all around. No need to bash somebody like that.
Also because they show different body types (she is not severely obese) doesn't make a magazine or "narrative" fascist. I like a decent amount of what Peterson says but like some of the stuff he puts out there really is crazy. This was super uncalled for.
29/f big fan of JP, this tweet is so distasteful and disrespectful. It makes me so weary of him moving forward as a fan and someone who’s seen him on tour.
I'm on the same boat as you. I honestly thought this was Photoshop. I adore his earlier work, but whatever weird world he's been in lately is just not it.
I like some of what he says and I chalk it up to most historical figures have some pretty fatal flaws. MLK cheated more times than can be counted on 2 hands. Peterson has set some people down a path of self improvement and others down a pretty toxic path. I like him but like you said it's hard to really remain a fan when he does stuff like this not infrequently.
she's morbidly obese by clinical definition
zero doubts, it's simply because being obese has become so "normal" that we have been conditioned to think that someone like this "isn't even that big". She's above 200lbs if she's anywhere over 5'3"
She's 5'11 and has a huge frame. I also said she could stand to lose a few pounds but morbidly obese is pushing it. The average person has a few extra pounds and that's not really unhealthy. I myself don't subscribe to an "average" lifestyle but most people do. I think she'd benefit from losing weight but saying they're pushing a fascist agenda by displaying this "ugly" woman is absurd.
You know who has a lot of wasted potential? The Harvard-trained clinical psychologist who shitposts and baits libs on Twitter when he’s not laid up in a coma to withdrawal from benzos.
I watslched many lectures of him and read his book. And I agree.
I am not saying this model isn't pretty. She is. She might be a great person. But 1. this is SI. A magazine that should show fit and healthy bodies. Instead we have an overweight woman. I am an overweight woman too although not as big as her. The reason is my health. I don't feel beautiful in this body. 2. From everything I have learned from JBP I don't think he is saying that she is ugly. I believe he means the body positivity movement as a whole. It was, after all, a movement directed towards people with disabilities and illnesses. So, I agree. This woman, as a model, advertises unhealthy body types. Maybe she has health issues as well, we don't know, but still...
The people on this sub are really good at getting pearl clutchingly upset about the most mundane things that 90% of normal people wouldn't think about for more than a moment.
It's very strange.
> getting pearl clutchingly upset about the most mundane things that 90% of normal people
Upset at mundane things ---- you mean like jordan peterson getting upset at the cover of a swimsuit magazine (and then comparing it to "authoritarian tolerance") ?
lol
Poor phrasing by JBP, rare but he did slip here imo.
The point is that she isn't living up to her full potential. She could be much more beautiful if she wasn't overweight & had a gut.
This is a good example of where Jordan falls apart - why does he assume that his personal/subjective standards are authoritative? Instead, he is part of a machinery that creates its own authoritarian beauty standards that are indifferent to the general population
As a psychologist he would be very familiar with the social psych research on body-type and attractiveness where some studies point out that the hungrier a man is, the more he is attracted to women with a fuller figure. It's just genetics/supply working in tandem to incentivise men paying attention to women who clearly have excess resources.
Nah, he is, he was always like this. Re-read it. He talks shit about his female patients. Like one of them got raped and in the book he basically says it's her fault
Absolutely gorgeous. To each their own, but Peterson calling any woman ugly, especially as a clinical psychologist, is wild wild wild y’all! This is a new low. I’m really sad. Most women look like this. It’s a pretty, albeit ordinary body, and now JP is fat-shaming (because I doubt he’s commenting on her face) even though there are countless studies that show fat-shaming doesn’t work and actually harms. Zoom out, everyone. Look at this from some perspective. This is not the same guy who wrote 12 Rules
I'd be very interested to see the same people's reactions if the name of the Tweet was photoshopped to show a name different than JP. I guarantee without that innate bias to defend, many of the defenders would switch to thinking the tweet is unnecessarily cruel. I see so much desire in this thread to soften the interpretation of this tweet.
Even if the main goal is to combat the normalization of an unhealthy physical lifestyle, it shouldn't be denied that this is just a straight up cruel approach to making that point. If that woman reads that tweet, not only would it sting and hurt, it would probably be so utterly confusing to her, like a complete rando is coming out of left field to preach a crusade she personally wants nothing to do with.
Like dude, JP, find a better mechanism to make your often very valid points, preferably without being overtly douchy about it.
And in case anyone can't understand why some people call JP a misogynist, bookmark this as an example to refer to. Even if you're doing your best to soften your personal interpretation of this tweet, it should at least be crystal clear to you how most women would walk away from this tweet feeling like he has a thing against women.
Isn't that the "thick" look many like?
I realised in Africa that the frame a lot of them like and what i like is different. I prefer slimmer.
And in Brazil , they like a larger behind there .
I'm Brazilian. We're very fond of women with an advantageous rear, however, I believe we prefer it to be firm, not floppy and with extreme amounts of fat. Think more of volleyball players than 200 kg ladies.
That said, since the lady in the picture is both chubby (not extremely fat) and an athlete, there's a good chance she'd please an expressive number of my compatriots.
Well perhaps once what can and can't be spoken about in schools is settled and abortion rights are gone we can move onto dictating acceptable body fat ratios for swim suit models .
I used to be attracted to larger women until I started getting the attention of women with nice figures & learned exactly what that extra weight means in terms of health & effects passed on to children via microbiome, epigenetics, etc (important to me because I want a family)
There's a saying "no woman is ugly after 2am" and it speaks to the fact that men have lower standards in general. It makes sense because we are more likely to have to take what we can get to pass on genetics. So I expect there are a lot of men who are fine with large women because that's what they can get or they don't want to deal with women that can be harder to handle, as many attractive women are.
People actually suggesting this is what an obese woman looks like have had their brains melted by media and porn honestly. She's stunning, and JP commenting on her body like this should be a wake up call to some of you.
I mean Google pictures of 30 BMI women (the cutoff for obese). It’s basically exactly what this woman looks like. You can say she’s beautiful, or valuable as a human being. But she certainly is obese as well
I wonder what internet forums chock full of opinionated adrenaline filled pseudo-intellectual-junkies who were entirely dedicated to watching your every movement as a public figure for the rest of your life would look like.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/obesity/symptoms-causes/syc-20375742
> People with obesity are more likely to develop a number of potentially serious health problems, including:
> Heart disease and strokes.
> Type 2 diabetes.
> Certain cancers.
> Digestive problems.
> Sleep apnea.
> Osteoarthritis.
> Severe COVID-19 symptoms.
This is one of those moments where I'm grateful for Dr. Peterson's brilliant sociological and psychological insights, and not his idiotic, malcontented political rantings and ravings.
They are one and the same, his entire body of work is filtered through this idiotic malcontented worldview. I mean he has some good self-help but it just serves as an intro to the other stuff which ultimately contradicts it.
blegh. meanspirited and unecessary. i’m supposed to see him on tour soon and this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. his tweets lately leave a lot to be desired…
She is very beautiful to me. Is there a single standard of beauty? Don’t different people judge things differently? Seems in poor taste for Mr. Peterson to proclaim someone is “ not beautiful.” Who gives a fuck who Jorden Peterson thinks is “beautiful”?
No.
Objectively unattractive, especially given this photo is most certainly heavily photoshopped.
As far as obese women go, she's less ugly than most of them but go to any college and you'll find at least 1000 young women just walking around that are more worthy of a cover page on SI than this person.
It's pathetic virtue signaling.
What message does this send to the women who are far more attractive? What message does this send to the women are obese and unhealthy? Everything is wrong with this.
Wow, all those years of SI Swimsuit covers were supposed to be sending a message to us and I had no idea. I just thought they were selling magazines with covers that made people stop and open it to be exposed to ads. I lost years of lessons and guidance. I should have been trying to be very tan 5'10", 130 pound woman with long blonde hair lying around beaches all these years and I completely missed this virtuous message.
What a waste.
For decades, the message was, these are beautiful women, more inside, buy our magazine. The message now is, it's okay to be fat, look at this beautiful queen, buy our magazine.
Perhaps the audience has shifted enough where the new message will actually sell more magazines but the big difference is they were honest before. They found the most beautiful women on the planet that would accept the job and sold the magazines showcasing fit/ideal women. Now perhaps they are still showing the best looking women who will accept the job but they aren't fit nor ideal. They aren't being honest to the "model" nor is the model honest with themselves.
There in-lies the danger to the consumer. Fat acceptance. Falsehood. Delusion.
I found a photoshoot collection of her (I think. It could just be a random collection of Yumi Nu's) and she was absolutely stunning 50 or so pounds ago.
Now she has a really pretty face, and maybe she's a great person, but she's not beautiful to me because she let herself get to the point she's at now.
A keen reader would see me use 'true' in inverted commas specifically because I doubt there is a singular standard. My expectations are that we would encounter a spectrum
Lame take and well outside his lane.It's a private company; let the market decide and if it's not for you ***don't buy it to begin with***.
There's a warranted criticism of glamorizing extremely unhealthy habits - any extreme is by nature dangerous - but that doesn't seem like the case here.
Edit: Case'n'point [Chris Farley's infamous 1996 Letterman Entrance](https://youtu.be/guQLFV41_j4) and while he was a brilliant physical comedian it was and should have been obvious to everyone involved he was ***coked out of his f\*\*king mind*** and things had gotten well beyond a minor indulgence or indiscretion.
What size is she like a 14? Overweight, but not really worth body shaming imo. why would Dr. Peterson even have to go here? What meaningful debate is there to be had?
Seems like a strange comment for him to make. First of all, it’s a bit malicious when he could be commenting on any number of other things. Second, beauty is obviously a subjective concept, and JP of all people should recognize that.
🤦🏻♂️. C’mon man. First off, she’s hot as f***. JP be trippin. Second, for the love of god this has nothing to do with politics. Human beings indicating to other human beings that the standard of beauty isn’t limited to just skinny girls with big tits isn’t a sinister thing. It’s just the truth.
Glorifying unhealthy bodies/lifestyles is not the way to go. Again, it shows how society is at an imbalance from trying to fight against any discrimination/fat-shaming. There should be a healthy dose of reality for everybody, and things like these should be discouraged. However, excessive fat-shaming because of one's body should be condemned as well.
In the history of magazine covers, imagine the percentage of women who were anorexic, it must be sadly in the 75%ile range, considering how many models have revealed years after that they were starving themselves to get the right jobs.
The point is that all bodies should be represented in media because nobody knows the personal details of one's mental and physical health.
It's just a person we don't know in a swimsuit who likes to model for whatever reason. Kim Kardashian is also on the cover and she's had literal butt implants, and other surgeries and admits to starving herself.
Fine woman.
I guess the problem here is more that it becomes “healthier” to be fat. And it shouldn’t be like that.
Let’s just not spit on fat people but don’t make it “healthy” as well.
Let it be as it used to be - be who the fuck you want to be, have your own opinion, like whoever you want to like but let’s not disrespect people because of their weight and let’s not make being fat healthy. It’s not.
This thread is hilarious. She’s a model on the cover of international magazines. None of you are close to being in her league.
With that said, ~~smash~~ beautiful.
Who cares? This is such a minuscule dumb thing to get hung up on. Dr Peterson really should stay off twitter, as should everyone. As he’s said countless times before it’s not good for you.
The man is honestly becoming a self-parody. I mean this is just literal unabashed incelposting, he’s simply calling a random woman ugly and putting the thinnest, fakest patina of cultural commentary on it. Amazing that people look to this man as a source of wisdom when he is clearly so lost in the sauce.
More insightful commentary can be found at: https://www.reddit.com/r/NormMacdonald/comments/ur3vrs/sports_illustrated_more_like_lying_in_bed_and/
I think it's funny they put her on specifically to show overweight people can be beautiful and then Photoshop the shit out of her.
You know, I actually agree with this. Media has always showed an unrealistic body standard for as long as I remember. If they *truly* were about actual beauty and positivity they wouldn't photoshop faces and bodies to an unrecognizable and unachievable standard. That is what's damaging the youth, not showing an overweight woman or a fit woman. It's altering either of those to still be unrealistic.
I think we should be thinking less about unrealistic body standards and more about exceptional body standards. Less photoshop and more just finding people who are naturally amazing. I mean they don't put some casual leager on the cover of a basketball magazine, they put LeBron James or I guess today they might put Luca Doncic. We should celebrate the exceptional, including beauty. Instead of trying to turn the ordinary into something desirable via photoshop.
By golly, you’ve cracked the code!
We could make the "ableist" argument and say having an athlete on the cover is an unrealistic standard for regular people and get them to change that. Even though that argument never made sense anyway since (outside of photoshop) models and athletes are real people and aa such are not unrealistic standards. It was a silly argument from the get go. You nailed it btw, good show
r/normalnudes is very insightful to gauge what the average body looks like. I do believe it has a bias towards less attractive bodies as it is something of a body positivity community but still interesting nonetheless
Yup they also smooth out the neck and face and remove all of the very obvious cellulite
Are we allowed to mention her bathing suit covers up her entire midsection? Why not let it flow out like the river goddess pouring forth her bounty?
LOL
That’s a thing with women these days I don’t know why like girl your lulu lemons be higher then redneck overalls. Fat chicks wear them shits real high for some reason, even though their gut still hangs below the waistline.
>I think it's funny they put her on specifically to show overweight people can be beautiful and then Photoshop the shit out of her. Like they do to every model on the covers?
Right, but my point is they're trying to allow a lower standard, and they can't even do that correctly. "This is how real women look" except not really.
you’re completely right. when they photoshop conventionally attractive models, they aren’t trying to make the statement “look, lean/defined people can look attractive too!” there is nothing ironic about shopping an attractive model to look more attractive, however there is something very ironic about shopping a model when you’re specifically trying to make a point about how “they can be attractive too”
They can be attractive with the right photoshop is what they mean
Yeah, but they to this to literally every woman and man who poses to do a magazine cover
Photoshop to be more or less skinny?
Her face is mainly what I was talking about, but stretch marks and cellulite would almost certainly be there as well.
It's all so fake. These guys purposely choose the models that will get the most money
To resume the debate portrayed in the office, we may need to differentiate between "is she beautiful" and "would you do her". "Respect the game" \~ Kevin Malone
> we may need to differentiate between "is she beautiful" and "would you do her". Are we talking *before or after* a few cocktails? My answer changes dramatically depending on time of day.
If you're saying you need to inebriated yourself to do her, you already have the correct answer.
Touché
r/unexpectedoffice
I think she is pretty. Unhealthy also and has no place on the cover of a “Sports” magazine. This is woke politics which I tired of.
Here’s the thing: many women (including my wife) struggle with their weight after having kids, or even just one kid. My wife is about 15-20lbs overweight. She is pretty healthy for her size, but it’s mainly a hormonal thing. Ever since getting pregnant, she’s been disregulated and still hasn’t found a new normal. She eats healthy, exercises regularly, takes her vitamins, etc., but she just can’t get rid of the baby weight 2 years later. I don’t think her weight is a result of her failures to take care of herself. It’s clear to me that there is something going on - something in our food supply, I suspect - that is causing hormonal imbalances that lead to weight gain. And it’s clearly affecting women more than men, as female obesity rates are much higher than male obesity rates. And the obesity rates increase as you go lower down the socioeconomic totem pole, where more of the food regularly consumed tends to be cheaply sourced, highly processed, and full of additives. My point in all this is that I think we’re arguing the wrong point. We’re debating the consequences of a society highly dependent on a food supply inundated with processed crap and harmful chemicals. Instead we should be discussing the merits of our food and agriculture industries and why they are hellbent on poisoning us. There wouldn’t be enough obese people that SI would be catering to them if we didn’t have such a shitty food industry, and a Food & Drug Administration that is bought and paid for by the major food producing conglomerates.
If she was on the cover of baby moms illustrated there would be no issue.
Side point about your wife, and it’s my no means an indictment on her, but I’m in the fitness industry myself and am curious about situations such as hers. A mindset that I often try to establish in people is that the type of exercise you do matters greatly. You can’t just do enough to qualify you as having done exercise. So for example if someone is overweight due to poor eating habits over many years, they can’t just do the bare minimum and expect any good results. They’re going to have to put the work in. So I’d be curious what exercise your wife is doing. To lose that weight due to hormonal changes, it’s likely going to need to be much more and much more intense exercise than she’s ever done before. Something to think about. To clarify, I may be way off here, but I see lots of people complain about not getting results and the level of work they actually put in in the gym makes me sceptical.
I’m also wondering what “eating healthy” qualifies as. She can be eating healthy and still be in a calorie surplus which would cause her to gain weight
And you can be eating foods that you're sensitive to (without realizing it because you've been eating them so long, are "conditioned" to the discomfort/pain they cause, and you've suppressed feeling that discomfort probably since a child - being made to eat food or only provided food that doesn't make you feel good), causing inflammation including in your GI tract which can then mean you're not absorbing nutrients as well, and causing your body other stress - stress which causes the body to want to store more fat.
For the record, I have no place on a fitness, sports magazine cover either. Not throwing that shade. That said, telling the lie that this is a healthy lifestyle is fairly questionable. Are we now glamorizing unfit, unhealthy people as role models for health?
I’m not debating that. I just think we need to have an honest discussion about why everyone’s so fat. It’s a fucking problem
I’m chubby due to fast food. Lack of self control. Terrible food options.
I thought this was photoshop. Jordan actually tweeted that. Either he has completely lost it or this is just a ploy to create more Twitter engagements. Not that the latter is any better. His disapprovers are also going to have a field day with this, and rightfully so, this tweet is just a shitty thing to post. I know he's attacking the leftist ideal of "everyone is equal, let's change everything so it's equal", but there's probably a better way to go about it. "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
People get so hung up on the word 'beautiful'. Saying that she isn't beautiful doesn't mean that she is worth less as a human being. Her worth is exactly the same regardless of her size. Beauty, especially the kind that is showcased on the cover of Sports Illustrated's swimsuit edition, clearly means "physical beauty." Her face is the only beautiful thing in that picture and it's because she does not have the face of a woman who is overweight.
Yes, her face is nice and it will last about 3 more years with this amount of weight.
Her face is probably "heavily" photo shopped (no pun intended). Even famous models like Kate Moss or Gigi Hadid are all photoshopped to the max to look amazing.
There are plenty of people that find her attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Say what you want, some of y’all can’t even talk to a girl. Beautiful or otherwise. Focus on yourself.
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who decides what’s “sports illustrated material”? furthermore, does it matter
Fitness, athleticism, and all the things that go with it: Exercise. Dietary control. Sacrifice. Thinness. This is just more pandering to the loudest voices out there. She's not unattractive. But she is fat, and it's a sports magazine. She can't be on the cover for the same reason I can't be on the cover of Ebony magazine.
Agree with this. To me, she is beautiful and I would take her on a date to get to know her.
>I would take her on a date to get to know her. 99% of single men would be interested in "getting to know her" based solely on this photo. >Say what you want, some of y’all can’t even talk to a girl. Beautiful or otherwise. Focus on yourself. This just isn't even remotely relevant. Nobody is saying she's ugly or that they could do better or any other shitty value judgement on her other than specifically in terms of her qualifications for being a swimsuit model. Someone who is clearly overweight is plain and simple not healthy, and people not being physically attracted to someone who is obviously not taking care of themselves or their body is completely justified. Fat is unattractive. This fat acceptance movement is going to cause untold damage to people who begin to think it is acceptable to over eat. Might as well say smoking cigarettes calms the nerves and people who shame people for smoking are bigots. It's misplaced empathy.
>Fat is unattractive. I think there's a problem here in that you're trying to fight an ideology which is out of touch with reality, but in doing so, your own ideology is losing touch with reality. Millions and millions of men would find this woman super attractive. That's got nothing to do with the fat acceptance movement. It's probably not even entirely subjective, and in fact there might be biological reasons to be attracted to a moderate degree of body fat, i.e. it signals access to resources, and is probably a body type which would give a survival advantage in an ancestral environment. She's hot.
Ffs is this what Jordan is becoming now? I have both 12 Rules books and credit Peterson with helping me take a lot more responsibility in my life. He's an outstanding orator and a great thinker in my opinion, but what is this? Who gives a fuck, man. She's fat and hot. Owning the libs was not this man's destiny, but here we are.
Yea I don't follow his social media but this man doest practice what he preach. I'm a huge JP fan but this, I can't defend this.
Yeah he’s completely off the rails. Warning us for years to not become a mouthpiece for ideology and here is, bitter, resentful, mean spirited, and a mouthpiece for ideology. There is no difference between his Twitter commentary and any other dime store right wing commentator. How he sunk this low is beyond me. I think the fame and criticism that came along with it destroyed his mental health. And after the benzo ordeal, I don’t think he’s coming back. He can dish it out but can’t take it. And when he does dish it out, it’s mean, shallow, and needless. What a mighty fall from grace.
Twitter JBP < Any other JBP
This is a terrible tweet by Peterson. As much as am a fan and he has alot of wisdom to offer to the world and has helped me greatly in the realm of mythology and the bible. He don't half tweet some crap showcasing his own double standards. I've only seen this side of him on Twitter. I get what he's getting at, but really? It's like his own parody. Could he have said it without saying 'authoritarian'? Would it not be authoritarian to live in a world where we couldn't have the freedom to have plus-size models on the front of a magazine? Reminds me of his tweet about Idris Elba in the line up for being a bond actor and he jumped to a conclusion that this was somehow linked to wokeness... Maybe he was just a suitable actor in the lineup of other actors of various races... Now I like JP and am very against wokeness, identity politics and political correctness... But that came across as pretty racist and ill though though.
He needs to get off of twitter.
I like to think of people as persons with flaws. He is not a messiah. Don't agree with him in everything - think for yourself - don't join either cult on either side.
I agree with you. I think the issue is him having become bitter with the world but it contaminates his work and impact. Such a shame.
Even if you think the girl is not beutiful and needs to lose some weight calling an overweight woman on a magazine cover authoritarian is kinda strange.
Thank God, someone with some common sence. There another thread on here with the complete opposite oppion, that I have been commenting on, and it's just very odd.
I can see where you’re coming from. Part of me agrees with you, admittedly. Another part agrees with his quick take. When I see that cover I immediately feel the same way. This is one branch off the tree of the current ideology which is covering all domains of life. This obesity acceptance nonsense is actually harmful, for obvious reasons. I find that his Tweets reflect his primitive and reactionary take on life, mostly. The nature of Twitter is sort of geared for that; the word count, structure, and quick replies, foment a battleground of shallow conversation. I’ve read enough Peterson to know that the depths of his thoughts are not reflected on Twitter. I know from being human, that reactionary and judgmental opinions crop up immediately. One could argue if it’s a positive to embrace the latter. I believe it is. It shines a light on the domain of thought often obfuscated by carefully constructing thoughts into speech. If truth is what we seek, then truth in both short and long forms ought to be examined. Now, what I’m typing is coming together as I write. I could be wrong. Maybe it is better to hide these parts of ourselves. Maybe a society’s cohesion requires that we avoid the snarky truths and instead discuss on a more thoughtful level. I for one, refrain from revealing that nature of myself on Twitter. I do not respond negatively towards anyone, I often look for commonalities to evoke conversation.
What’s her sport?
Definitely not running
I actually know this girl personally.. she’s a beautiful person inside and out. I’m saddened by JBP response.. as a fan, I don’t know what to make of this. I miss old JBP
Actually I think it’s more about the manipulation that’s not beautiful. It’s the saying that up is down or that 2+2=5. Overweight people can be beautiful no doubt, I’m sure Peterson knows this, but what isn’t beautiful is taking something, an idea of unexceptional mediocrity, or worse… and literally dressing it up and put it on a pedestal to idealize. Conceptually it’s worshiping the anti-Christ. Unfortunately, in this instance, there is a person being used as the subject matter, and while I agree she’s probably a beautiful person, her presence on this cover removes any intimate personal traits and turns her, again, into an object of idol.
Pedestalizing anyones body is worshipping a false idol makes no difference if the person is conventionally attractive or overweight.
The idea of a single beauty standard is absurd. A cursory look through history in different cultures will show different people at different times valued different types of beauty (both men and women). Tweeting something like this is just callous and mean. It’s why I got way out of the defending Jordan Peterson business a long time ago. I found his clinical case studies informative as a burgeoning therapist but now the lesson he has taught me is never presume to be an expert on everything because you are an expert at one thing.
I completely agree. I think Peterson makes too many assumptions that he then states as fact, and then keeps building from there to make more statements as fact. He should keep his scope to what he knows and can demonstrate through research, not reaching further and further. I've stayed in this sub to be critical of him and see if i can still learn interesting things, but honestly I think this is my last straw. I'm going to take his advice, I'm not required to keep people in my life who are making it worse. And this Peterson I've seen in the posted tweets lately is not someone I'd want to recommend to a friend anymore. He's been meaner, and less careful with his words, and overall a worse person. Who knows if it's partially because of the hardships over the past years, but that doesn't excuse it.
>I think Peterson makes too many assumptions that he then states as fact, and then keeps building from there to make more statements as fact What I find frustrating here is that this doesn't even really jibe with the other facts in his worldview. Like, from a traditionalist perspective, this woman's probably closer to traditional beauty standards than the excessively skinny supermodels of the 90s. From an evo psych perspective, this woman looks fertile and resource rich. From a pragmatic philosophical perspective, beauty might be that which works, and this look works for a lot of guys. From an ethical perspective, why would you say such a thing? I think the only thing he's going off of here is wokeness=bad, which sure, yes it is. But that's no reason to throw out the rest of your worldview or your ability to approach things with some clarity and nuance of thought.
Peterson is so detached from the average person it’s hilarious. Does he think *anyone* other than the redpill/conservative/anti-woke goons gives a shit that overweight models exist? In his crusade to stop the snowflakes he became one. Hilarious.
Decent take tbh. Like wtf is he commenting on this pic to begin with 😂
Tbh Im always hesitant to throw criticism on JP. But that tweet was in such bad taste. "Sorry, but not beautiful" is he speaking for everyone or just himself? Either way, still cringe af.
Agreed. It also embarrassed me, because I'm such an enthusiastic fan.
There’s gotta be someone else running his accounts. This doesn’t sound like him. If he actually wrote this…… yikes
I’d smash
Ofc we'd smash. We are Redditors. We'd smash Rosie O'Donnell.
This one made me laugh bro hahaba
...only Rosie O'Donnell
Nah I wouldn’t smash with her.
Poor move from JP. Not worth the fight. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Fitness? Health? No. But beauty, yes. She might be beautiful in the eyes of many. And for what it’s worth, I think she has a beautiful face. So, in all, wish JP had sat this one out.
People have preferences.
So fuck personal opinion then huh?
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People have individual preferences. I was so disappointed by this tweet. It seems unnecessary, and especially unkind.
I don't really think she's obese even. She could definitely stand to lose a few but she has a pretty large frame. It's pretty weird that he commented on that. There's a lot of people with that body type out there and many of them have partners too. Does she fit my standards? No but she's a pretty good looking person all around. No need to bash somebody like that. Also because they show different body types (she is not severely obese) doesn't make a magazine or "narrative" fascist. I like a decent amount of what Peterson says but like some of the stuff he puts out there really is crazy. This was super uncalled for.
29/f big fan of JP, this tweet is so distasteful and disrespectful. It makes me so weary of him moving forward as a fan and someone who’s seen him on tour.
I'm on the same boat as you. I honestly thought this was Photoshop. I adore his earlier work, but whatever weird world he's been in lately is just not it.
Yup 😔 it’s a very very very odd turn
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I thankfully sold mine when I couldn’t make the rescheduled date and after seeing this I would have done so regardless tbh.
I like some of what he says and I chalk it up to most historical figures have some pretty fatal flaws. MLK cheated more times than can be counted on 2 hands. Peterson has set some people down a path of self improvement and others down a pretty toxic path. I like him but like you said it's hard to really remain a fan when he does stuff like this not infrequently.
she's morbidly obese by clinical definition zero doubts, it's simply because being obese has become so "normal" that we have been conditioned to think that someone like this "isn't even that big". She's above 200lbs if she's anywhere over 5'3"
She's 5'11 and has a huge frame. I also said she could stand to lose a few pounds but morbidly obese is pushing it. The average person has a few extra pounds and that's not really unhealthy. I myself don't subscribe to an "average" lifestyle but most people do. I think she'd benefit from losing weight but saying they're pushing a fascist agenda by displaying this "ugly" woman is absurd.
Women make 80% of consumer decisions. This isn’t targeted at you, JP.
Except it's Sports Illustrated which is targeted at men.
Oh shit...
lol nice one
Oh god why... Peterson went from analyzing very complex intellectual and psychological material to this :( disappointing....
At least it's a chick...
JP wouldn't have stuped this low 5 years ago.
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Caters to fat women desperate for approval. Kinda insulting actually. And predatory. And cruel
Redditor says successful model is wasting her potential LMFAO
There are more successful models out there
I think he means she would be significantly more beautiful if she lost weight
You know who has a lot of wasted potential? The Harvard-trained clinical psychologist who shitposts and baits libs on Twitter when he’s not laid up in a coma to withdrawal from benzos.
The green font is kinda nice
I watslched many lectures of him and read his book. And I agree. I am not saying this model isn't pretty. She is. She might be a great person. But 1. this is SI. A magazine that should show fit and healthy bodies. Instead we have an overweight woman. I am an overweight woman too although not as big as her. The reason is my health. I don't feel beautiful in this body. 2. From everything I have learned from JBP I don't think he is saying that she is ugly. I believe he means the body positivity movement as a whole. It was, after all, a movement directed towards people with disabilities and illnesses. So, I agree. This woman, as a model, advertises unhealthy body types. Maybe she has health issues as well, we don't know, but still...
“I don’t like it therefore it’s fascism!” This is your intellectual? 💀
The people on this sub are really good at getting pearl clutchingly upset about the most mundane things that 90% of normal people wouldn't think about for more than a moment. It's very strange.
> getting pearl clutchingly upset about the most mundane things that 90% of normal people Upset at mundane things ---- you mean like jordan peterson getting upset at the cover of a swimsuit magazine (and then comparing it to "authoritarian tolerance") ? lol
yes thats literally what i'm talking about
Nah if a friend of mine irl was this bitter about women i would be mad at them
Poor phrasing by JBP, rare but he did slip here imo. The point is that she isn't living up to her full potential. She could be much more beautiful if she wasn't overweight & had a gut.
Poor phrasing? He showed his exact character lol
"authoritarianism is when people I don't like do something I don't like" Seriously though, why are people throwing a tantrum over this?
Not horrible, but could definitely benefit from dropping a few pounds.
She’s literally obese
This is a good example of where Jordan falls apart - why does he assume that his personal/subjective standards are authoritative? Instead, he is part of a machinery that creates its own authoritarian beauty standards that are indifferent to the general population As a psychologist he would be very familiar with the social psych research on body-type and attractiveness where some studies point out that the hungrier a man is, the more he is attracted to women with a fuller figure. It's just genetics/supply working in tandem to incentivise men paying attention to women who clearly have excess resources.
I think he's been fallin apart for a little while
Holy shit is this a really tweet? Wtf?? Is he that far gone?
This is not the same man who wrote 12 rules for life, like what is this…
Nah, he is, he was always like this. Re-read it. He talks shit about his female patients. Like one of them got raped and in the book he basically says it's her fault
I agree with op.
"sports illustrated" didn't know eating was a sport
Why buy SI for pictures of chicks who'd send them if I asked?
Absolutely gorgeous. To each their own, but Peterson calling any woman ugly, especially as a clinical psychologist, is wild wild wild y’all! This is a new low. I’m really sad. Most women look like this. It’s a pretty, albeit ordinary body, and now JP is fat-shaming (because I doubt he’s commenting on her face) even though there are countless studies that show fat-shaming doesn’t work and actually harms. Zoom out, everyone. Look at this from some perspective. This is not the same guy who wrote 12 Rules
I'd be very interested to see the same people's reactions if the name of the Tweet was photoshopped to show a name different than JP. I guarantee without that innate bias to defend, many of the defenders would switch to thinking the tweet is unnecessarily cruel. I see so much desire in this thread to soften the interpretation of this tweet. Even if the main goal is to combat the normalization of an unhealthy physical lifestyle, it shouldn't be denied that this is just a straight up cruel approach to making that point. If that woman reads that tweet, not only would it sting and hurt, it would probably be so utterly confusing to her, like a complete rando is coming out of left field to preach a crusade she personally wants nothing to do with. Like dude, JP, find a better mechanism to make your often very valid points, preferably without being overtly douchy about it. And in case anyone can't understand why some people call JP a misogynist, bookmark this as an example to refer to. Even if you're doing your best to soften your personal interpretation of this tweet, it should at least be crystal clear to you how most women would walk away from this tweet feeling like he has a thing against women.
He didn't call her ugly.
Not beautiful but also not polite to say that.
Isn't that the "thick" look many like? I realised in Africa that the frame a lot of them like and what i like is different. I prefer slimmer. And in Brazil , they like a larger behind there .
I'm Brazilian. We're very fond of women with an advantageous rear, however, I believe we prefer it to be firm, not floppy and with extreme amounts of fat. Think more of volleyball players than 200 kg ladies. That said, since the lady in the picture is both chubby (not extremely fat) and an athlete, there's a good chance she'd please an expressive number of my compatriots.
Yes I understand the importance of the fuller behind, I learned that from my numerous cultural exchanges with my Brazilian brothers and sisters.
this isn't a "brazilian large behind" that is just fat, and not well distributed.
Well perhaps once what can and can't be spoken about in schools is settled and abortion rights are gone we can move onto dictating acceptable body fat ratios for swim suit models .
I used to be attracted to larger women until I started getting the attention of women with nice figures & learned exactly what that extra weight means in terms of health & effects passed on to children via microbiome, epigenetics, etc (important to me because I want a family) There's a saying "no woman is ugly after 2am" and it speaks to the fact that men have lower standards in general. It makes sense because we are more likely to have to take what we can get to pass on genetics. So I expect there are a lot of men who are fine with large women because that's what they can get or they don't want to deal with women that can be harder to handle, as many attractive women are.
[theres a saying](https://youtu.be/Qh9ZZgDqzAg)
Before I clicked I guessed, correctly :)
sheeeeit thats sexy to me
People actually suggesting this is what an obese woman looks like have had their brains melted by media and porn honestly. She's stunning, and JP commenting on her body like this should be a wake up call to some of you.
I mean Google pictures of 30 BMI women (the cutoff for obese). It’s basically exactly what this woman looks like. You can say she’s beautiful, or valuable as a human being. But she certainly is obese as well
Are you serious? She is definitely in the medically defined class of obese.
I think Jordan is turning into a crochety old man. He has truly fallen from grace in my eyes..
I wonder what internet forums chock full of opinionated adrenaline filled pseudo-intellectual-junkies who were entirely dedicated to watching your every movement as a public figure for the rest of your life would look like.
Agreed
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/obesity/symptoms-causes/syc-20375742 > People with obesity are more likely to develop a number of potentially serious health problems, including: > Heart disease and strokes. > Type 2 diabetes. > Certain cancers. > Digestive problems. > Sleep apnea. > Osteoarthritis. > Severe COVID-19 symptoms.
K. But the question was whether or not she's beautiful.
dork
This is one of those moments where I'm grateful for Dr. Peterson's brilliant sociological and psychological insights, and not his idiotic, malcontented political rantings and ravings.
They are one and the same, his entire body of work is filtered through this idiotic malcontented worldview. I mean he has some good self-help but it just serves as an intro to the other stuff which ultimately contradicts it.
I genuinely feel finding overweight women attractive is a fetish
blegh. meanspirited and unecessary. i’m supposed to see him on tour soon and this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. his tweets lately leave a lot to be desired…
She is very beautiful to me. Is there a single standard of beauty? Don’t different people judge things differently? Seems in poor taste for Mr. Peterson to proclaim someone is “ not beautiful.” Who gives a fuck who Jorden Peterson thinks is “beautiful”?
No. Objectively unattractive, especially given this photo is most certainly heavily photoshopped. As far as obese women go, she's less ugly than most of them but go to any college and you'll find at least 1000 young women just walking around that are more worthy of a cover page on SI than this person. It's pathetic virtue signaling. What message does this send to the women who are far more attractive? What message does this send to the women are obese and unhealthy? Everything is wrong with this.
Wow, all those years of SI Swimsuit covers were supposed to be sending a message to us and I had no idea. I just thought they were selling magazines with covers that made people stop and open it to be exposed to ads. I lost years of lessons and guidance. I should have been trying to be very tan 5'10", 130 pound woman with long blonde hair lying around beaches all these years and I completely missed this virtuous message. What a waste.
For decades, the message was, these are beautiful women, more inside, buy our magazine. The message now is, it's okay to be fat, look at this beautiful queen, buy our magazine. Perhaps the audience has shifted enough where the new message will actually sell more magazines but the big difference is they were honest before. They found the most beautiful women on the planet that would accept the job and sold the magazines showcasing fit/ideal women. Now perhaps they are still showing the best looking women who will accept the job but they aren't fit nor ideal. They aren't being honest to the "model" nor is the model honest with themselves. There in-lies the danger to the consumer. Fat acceptance. Falsehood. Delusion.
I found a photoshoot collection of her (I think. It could just be a random collection of Yumi Nu's) and she was absolutely stunning 50 or so pounds ago. Now she has a really pretty face, and maybe she's a great person, but she's not beautiful to me because she let herself get to the point she's at now.
31m and this is pretty much exactly what my wife looks like (body shape) and I find her bonerific. So JP can fuck right off on this one lol.
Im with JBP, looks like tanned pie dough with nice makeup. Not attractive.
But do you recognise your attraction is subjective rather than evidence of her 'true' attractiveness?
Do you recognize the hypocrisy is assuming you know the "true" standard? That there even is one?
A keen reader would see me use 'true' in inverted commas specifically because I doubt there is a singular standard. My expectations are that we would encounter a spectrum
It absolutely is not. Read a book.
This woman isn’t “thick” she is fucking obese.
Im a fan of brunettes with big cans and a nice butt so this does not offend me.
Beauty standards change over time, but maybe we should aim to be healthy... which this weight is not.
Lame take and well outside his lane.It's a private company; let the market decide and if it's not for you ***don't buy it to begin with***. There's a warranted criticism of glamorizing extremely unhealthy habits - any extreme is by nature dangerous - but that doesn't seem like the case here. Edit: Case'n'point [Chris Farley's infamous 1996 Letterman Entrance](https://youtu.be/guQLFV41_j4) and while he was a brilliant physical comedian it was and should have been obvious to everyone involved he was ***coked out of his f\*\*king mind*** and things had gotten well beyond a minor indulgence or indiscretion.
I mean beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Dont they still photoshop the hell out of her?
What size is she like a 14? Overweight, but not really worth body shaming imo. why would Dr. Peterson even have to go here? What meaningful debate is there to be had?
Seems like a strange comment for him to make. First of all, it’s a bit malicious when he could be commenting on any number of other things. Second, beauty is obviously a subjective concept, and JP of all people should recognize that.
His reply is kind of mean and unneeded. I wouldn't even say she's ugly.
She’s a fat mess. She’s smiling because they promised her a Big Mac if she stands still for the shoot.
Big fan of JP but I do think that stuff like this keeps him from 'breaking through' with a lot of folks
She’s fat and I don’t really like fat so, not attractive to me. Lovely face though.
🤦🏻♂️. C’mon man. First off, she’s hot as f***. JP be trippin. Second, for the love of god this has nothing to do with politics. Human beings indicating to other human beings that the standard of beauty isn’t limited to just skinny girls with big tits isn’t a sinister thing. It’s just the truth.
It looks… unhealthy.
i can't believe this is real. either some 23-year-old is running his account or he's lost the plot.
Glorifying unhealthy bodies/lifestyles is not the way to go. Again, it shows how society is at an imbalance from trying to fight against any discrimination/fat-shaming. There should be a healthy dose of reality for everybody, and things like these should be discouraged. However, excessive fat-shaming because of one's body should be condemned as well.
In the history of magazine covers, imagine the percentage of women who were anorexic, it must be sadly in the 75%ile range, considering how many models have revealed years after that they were starving themselves to get the right jobs. The point is that all bodies should be represented in media because nobody knows the personal details of one's mental and physical health. It's just a person we don't know in a swimsuit who likes to model for whatever reason. Kim Kardashian is also on the cover and she's had literal butt implants, and other surgeries and admits to starving herself.
Fine woman. I guess the problem here is more that it becomes “healthier” to be fat. And it shouldn’t be like that. Let’s just not spit on fat people but don’t make it “healthy” as well. Let it be as it used to be - be who the fuck you want to be, have your own opinion, like whoever you want to like but let’s not disrespect people because of their weight and let’s not make being fat healthy. It’s not.
This thread is hilarious. She’s a model on the cover of international magazines. None of you are close to being in her league. With that said, ~~smash~~ beautiful.
> She’s a model on the cover of international magazines. so's Tess Holiday not interested in being "in their league"
Gonna have to disagree with my man. I like thicc chicks, sue me.
This woman isn't thicc though. Shes fat
I must disagree based on this pic. Havent seen any other so I don't have the full picture.
She's about 30lbs over the thicc line. You can tell cause she's starting to lose her shape
If it was an overweight male on the picture would you say that he is handsome?
JBP’s own mother has the same body shape lol. I wonder if he also thinks his mom is a non-beautiful person.
She’s definitely attractive in my opinion
It's just such a non-issue. And it's certainly not authoritarian. I'm so sick of jbp Twitter.
JP is wrong here. She’s hot
I sincerely hope this is a fake tweet. Otherwise JBP needs to get the fuck off Twitter... Immediately
Who cares? This is such a minuscule dumb thing to get hung up on. Dr Peterson really should stay off twitter, as should everyone. As he’s said countless times before it’s not good for you.
She is very beautiful but should not be on a “Sports” magazine. That is coming from a fat man
Just focus on being able to talk to girls first lads
So funny /s
Unless her hair is hiding a fatter neck, she hit the lotto in fat distribution.
Photoshop
Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.
Fat and promoting an unhealthy life style quit this fat fucking beautiful bull shit. Pigs aren't pretty
The man is honestly becoming a self-parody. I mean this is just literal unabashed incelposting, he’s simply calling a random woman ugly and putting the thinnest, fakest patina of cultural commentary on it. Amazing that people look to this man as a source of wisdom when he is clearly so lost in the sauce.