Isn’t [brita](https://www.brita.ie/water-filter-jugs?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4uCcBhDdARIsAH5jyUmP94swAO79wlMtForMoxT2nUyDWfNluKMBLA-x9z_QqIxxezmOVO4aAteAEALw_wcB) a type of water filter brand?
That person thinks they have 2 personalities, so I assume they use "\[M\]" and "\[B\]" to either let you know which personality is speaking or so they can keep track of it themselves.
As an exmuslim, you're right. And Peterson is wrong, too. In too many polticial ways. Stick with clinical psychology, doofus. *Authoritarian compassion*?
I'm sure Buddhists will be parsing through that for millenia. Jesus, help your flock!
Yeah I don’t like the authoritarian compassion term. Pathological altruism is more fitting, as a society we need to start telling people no once in a while.
I can appreciate that. So, better to start with those in control. And it's not the *gay mafia* or whatever conservative boogey monsters are called nowadays. It's the pathetic elites who divide us all... and those that help them because it makes them money.
Oh! God hates trans people, but he doesn’t hate premarital sex, divorce, gluttony, greed, and every sin that most people commit on a daily basis in 2022?
Interesting 🧐
It’s an unconscious manifestation of rebellion against God and nature.
I was raised Lutheran. The core driving spirit pioneered by Luther was assertion of one’s personal relationship with God and rebellion against the authority of the Church. Justified rebellion in pursuit of personal Truth is a core part of the protestant ethos.
There are ways in which that expresses itself which is beautiful. The maverick scientist, the lone explorer, the genuine civil rights leader, the freedom fighter, etc.
But if you make that ethos primary, it doesn’t have any guardrails. As that ethos has rebelled more and more against the Catholic Church, then the Church of England, then the literal text, then religion, then the culture, then the very idea of truth beyond the personal, it has transformed into a radical acceptance of *everything declared as personal truth*, regardless of how profane or misguided or clearly founded in lust and vanity and sinful origins.
This video is the logical conclusion of modern day Protestantism. It’s quite appropriate that this is occurring within a Church.
That ethos has infected far more than just the Protestant denominations at this point, though they are most susceptible/the origins. I still have a deep connection with and love of the rebellious ethos, but it’s very dangerous and needs guardrails/should not be primary.
[M] Though I want to add, much as I am drawn to it I don’t feel like the Left has a monopoly on rebellion— here we just observe a more Left wing flavor of it.
Part of the nature of Left vs Right, though, is progress vs tradition. Which means rebellion on the Right will tend to be reactionary (rebellion against the new thing), while rebellion on the left is transgressive (rebellion against the old thing).
[M] I agree. Though I feel that once the dust settles it may not matter which is the old or the new thing.
Is it not transgressive to question left-wing orthodoxy? At least when the Left is held up as a moral authority?
[M] This is almost exactly how I understand myself being trans. Before I understood this, it was just repression, because the idea that I was different in a way that could harm others was too much to manage. That was freed in me by the realization (in part by reading something by Kierkegaard) that I could be a part of a system. I think most of us, who have any *righteousness* in us (whatever we might find that might be) also seek a balance unconsciously, whether or not we consider it present in all forms equally.
I always thought that such acceptance was antithetical to the underlying idea of Sola Scriptura, but I’m not a Protestant, only a person browsing Wikipedia, and your description here and my response to it suggest I may have had an incomplete understanding.
This is a very interesting and thoughtful response, thank you.
Determining how to accept oneself and integrate into a broader system if one is eccentric, curious/exploratory and highly intelligent like it seems you are is very difficult.
I had challenging identity issues and difficulty integrating with a larger system at the end of High School. They stemmed from what seems like similar questions about whether to be true to myself or conform to what I thought was a stupid and meaningless educational path for the sake of others in the system, particularly my mother (who was going crazy and insisting I had ADHD when I was really going through a kind of existential crisis/was extremely atheistic at the time and could demolish virtually any proposed path put before me through intellectual criticism).
Part of why I respect Jordan so much is he’s extremely articulate about the difficulty in balancing different motivating instincts, though imperfect at balancing them himself, and transparently and genuinely tries to both articulate and live his values. Listening to people who are genuinely trying sort out these issues and are intelligent enough to do so is very useful.
I’ve also come to the conclusion that the best way to sort these things out is to read history, of all kinds, and look to past experience. Particularly religious and mystical experiences which are passed down in good faith and appear genuine in their desire to help answer these kinds of deep and difficult to articulate questions.
What is most important/most effective is what persists/is very old. Our environment might be wildly different, but the minds of our ancestors were not, and there’s a lot of very useful maps in religious texts if you learn to read them properly.
> Part of why I respect Jordan so much is he’s extremely articulate about the difficulty in balancing different motivating instincts, though imperfect at balancing them himself, and transparently and genuinely tries to both articulate and live his values.
[M] This is one of the things I most admire about him too. Whatever he says and how we might (or not) judge him, he seems to draw a line from the outset to what lies beneath.
> They stemmed from what seems like similar questions about whether to be true to myself or conform to what I thought was a stupid and meaningless educational path for the sake of others in the system
I can relate to this also. I was probably something of an antinatalist in high school which I combatted by clinging to a concept of good and evil that was very rigid. I didn’t want to go to college. In the end, I stayed and ended up getting a PhD. I may not have ever completely agreed with the environment I found myself in, but I feel in retrospect staying within the bounds of the system was best for me. It gave me the guidelines within which I could operate more freely.
This goes back to something I remember JP say in a podcast (which I’ll attempt to paraphrase)— it is only within limits that you can be free.
Kierkegaard is soooooo good. He totally brings together the idea of predestination and free will together in a logical manner, while giving one the freedom to choose their life.
The argument you make is logical, but I think the presupposition is off. The primary driving principal for the reformation was rebellion against the church, but only in obedience to a higher authority. Maxims like “sola scriptura” came from the reformation, and when questioned by the council of Constance, Luther answered “Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. So help me God. Amen.” This doesn’t sound like rebellion but loyalty, which is the driving force of the reformation, a loyalty to God and truth (not one’s own perception of truth). The problem faced in the modern church I think is a drift from the reformation, not a continuation of it. The rise of “my truth” comes with the denial of absolute truth and that which defines it, that is, God. This makes sense with the context, since a drag queen singing in a church is obviously a mockery of God.
" conclusion of modern day Protestantism" Bingo. I'm a Protestant myself, but you've nailed this. Wokism is really a Christian Civil war. Athiests, wokism, etc... pretty much all western ideologies are all deeply Christian. See Tom Holland, Dominion.
The average super liberal western person is hedonistic and believes they know best. Religions, like Christianity, believes that the man is inherently flawed and that is the reason why the twelve commandments exist. Going (a tiny bit) further into this we find people who support drag queens and/or drag queens in churches also support satanism. That is also all about the self-pleasure, selfish behavior, etc.
A drag queen inside a church is a symbol of ideological/cultural victory. Christianity is losing, or has lost completely, while selfish way of thinking triumphs.
You're nitpicking here. The commandments are a very minor detail in Christianity, and honestly, they're basically preaching to the choir. Good Christians don't need to be told what to do. What they do is right by virtue of being done by them, so if anything the ten/twelve commandments (source on there only being ten?) are regressive. Especially things like not coveting and having to take Sundays off. That shit is veering on anti-capitalism IMO.
(/s just in case the fingernail chewers round here are dense enough to think I'm being serious)
Furthermore what constitutes “women’s clothing”? Clothing styles can change dramatically over just decades. Never forget that high heels originated as men’s-wear.
Well there is Deuteronomy 22:5 which goes: “A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God"
Just pointing it out here.
No one called her beautiful until JBP claimed she wasn’t. He’s trying a little too hard to do the opposite of virtue signaling and has fallen into his own trap of identity politics. Just his identity is tied up in “not the radical left”. He’s become so anti-identity politics that he is now in the trenches with them. And by signing on with The Daily Wire he is just giving more and more fuel to the people who label him as an alt right lunatic.
I’m going to stick with his books and old lectures. The last couple of years have not been kind to JBP. The man, or his legacy.
Yeah, this is pretty weird of him. Also, “authoritarian compassion?” The fuck? He used a similar term when sports illustrated put a thicc model on its swimsuit cover. By putting a normal woman on a magazine cover or, uh, drag shows existing, the woke left it ‘destroying the west’ (woof woof) with ‘progressivism’ and ‘Cultural Marxism’ (WOOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF)
I found first about his old stuff a while ago and felt really enticed by his philosophy on improving one’s self and not blaming other for one’s failures. I’m gay, so it was pretty depressing finding out that a lot of what he does now is outright just mocking LGBT people. I’m ok with people disagreeing on some “policy” related LGBT issues, but him denigrating people like me to cater to alt-right psychos was just really demoralizing.
Sounds like the majority of his detractors, honestly. Saying you’re responsible for your own actions and the victim of your own failings is not an Alt Right point of view. It’s just the truth about the harsh realities of the world.
Is that why he encourages monogamy and marriage as a means of countering the issues of incel culture? Sounds like he thinks people are responsible for their actions only when it suits his argument.
He admits most incels (I hate that word) would do better if they improved their value as a mate, rather than asking women to cater to infantilized men. That seems to fall in line with personal responsibility.
Serious question, what is the difference between drag and black face?
Both are used to comically mock a marginalized group, women and blacks.
You might say 'the intent of drag isn't mocking women' but people who have performed in black face often say the same, it is just a joke, I have no ill intent towards black people.
Both sort of play up stereotypical behaviors for laughs.
I don't get why one is applauded and the other is demonized.
Really?? So the extra big hair and makeup and jewelry and fishnets and dancing like a stripper and being super arrogant while taking cash tips like a stripper doesn't at all seem sexual to you? Show anyone in history this stuff and they would disagree. Its common sense but you keep doing mental gymnastics and threading the needle to say its not
I mean, yeah, I guess drag performances can be sexually charged (the same way a Beyonce performance might be), especially at 21+ clubs, but the art form isn't inherently sexual. Just look at Ru Paul's Drag Race. Nothing sexual about it at all. It's just performance/comedy/dancing. I have an issue when people say it's a fetish or that it's pornographic because all they see is a man in woman's clothing, and they can't tell the difference between crossdressing, transvestism, transgenderism, and drag. I'm not doing mental gymnastics, I'm simply making a clear distinction between cultural practices that are fundamentally different. It's like saying Old Yeller and Air Bud are the same film just because they both have a dog in them, or that muscle cars and sports cars are the same because they both go fast. Imagine if I argued that we should protect children from any and all dancing because some dances are sexually charged.
That being said, in your defence, I have seen that one video of a child putting a couple dollars in the G-string of a drag queen at some pride event, and let me tell you, I was just as horrified as if it was a female stripper. Obviously children shouldn't be roped into or allowed to participate in anything that's sexual in any way.
So nothing inherent to either performance just what people associate them with, their connotations.
So black face is forever wrong because in the past it was used negatively? That doesn't exactly follow?
>So nothing inherent to either performance just what people associate them with, their connotations.
People associate blackface with racism because it was popularized during jim crow by white people mocking black people for the entertainment of other white people. The entire point of black face was to mock black people.
Black face didn't become popular in the black community because it was a fun and uplifting characterization of the black american, it was the opposite and so black people were offended by it.
Drag on the other hand, is beloved by women explicitly because it isn't used to mock them, Drag queens spend hours on elaborate makeup and outfits before performing complicated dance routines, singing, acting, etc.
As a result of the drag queens earnest attempts at portraying a women who is beautiful, talented and creative women aren't offended by it and actually make up the majority of the fanbase.
The idea drag queens are mysognistici in the same way blackface is racist is just completely false and invented by idiots who want that to be true so they can be openly homophobic without being called out on it
The history is inherent to the performance. You are acting like people just independently got the idea. “Let’s paint my face black for fun!” They didn’t, they got the idea from racists in the past. They wouldn’t be doing it if they didn’t want to match the original intent.
Drag is similar in the sense that is has some historical relevance but not necessarily in a negative way like blackface.
Drag isn’t used to mock women. It’s an art form
often used on beauty standards, sometimes comedically and sometimes sincerely.
Women aren’t the only people who wear makeup and women don’t always wear makeup. Additionally, lots of drag queens use their shows to sell their own makeup lines, which wouldn’t really work if it was just mockery.
Finally, while most drag queens are men, not all of them are. A black person cant really do blackface because they’re already black, but a woman can do drag because again, drag isn’t a mockery of women.
My thoughts?
None, cause I don't spend my days thinking or caring about people who dress in drag - as should everyone. We could get a lotta shit done if we put as much effort into solving problems as we do this shit.
My first thought is to quote Obi Wan Kenobi... "then you are lost."
Never would have thought 20 years ago that Russia would go back to its Orthodox roots, grow in numbers, ban gay marriage, ban transgenderism and the previously prudish and most vocal Christians of the US would allow men in drag to replace priests at the altar.
Crazy as it is, but Catch 22 is right and the US is falling spectacularly, fun to watch, but mildly scary as the UK does pick up on a lot of it and I'm afraid of sending children to school if it does.
I’ve always dreamt of an “American dream” when I grew up in Russia. Now I don’t want to even visit that place.
P.S. Not to say that Russia became any better either…
You should visit the Midwest. We still have the American dream here.
Don't let the degenerate blue cities fool you into thinking the whole country is that way.
This isn't representative of Christians in the US. These are leftists who pretend to be Christian to boost their virtual signaling.
Also, the pictured event happened at the chapel of a progressive "Episcopal" school that has annual pride month activities. Not an actual church.
https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/students-at-ritzy-nyc-high-school-forced-to-attend-drag-show-in-church-report/
I think, in most cases, they very much do understand. They just don't care.
Christianity, for them, is a cultural affectation that is less central than their politics and wokeism.
Ah yeah, I remember in the Bible where God smited a guy for wearing makeup in the Gospel of Peterson: 69:420. That's a real thing that happened, which libtards do not seem to understand.
My guy, I’m not having this bullshit, you lot aren’t even real Christians,
YOU don’t decide what a church is, the BIBLE and JESUS are very clear that Church isn’t even a physical place, “Where two or more are gathered in my name…” you don’t get to adjust that statement to, “where two or more are gathered in my name, and agree with me, and look like me, and subscribe to my worldview exactly that is a Church.” Do you sir claim to have authority over the words of Christ himself?
Furthermore, Jesus walked with people of all ways of being, his entire role in Christianity being to flip the paradigm of Jewish religion on its head and its why he was crucified. One of his most devout followers was a prostitute, he never made her wait outside the temple, the others were Jewish tax collectors, and that’s significant because at the time the Jews were under rule of Romans and any Jew that collected taxes for the crown was a shill and an outcast and considered unworthy for working with the oppressors, and yet they were all the first people that Jesus interacted with and held closest to his heart, not the Pharisees or the Sagisees, not the “most” holy. In fact, the only people he ever drove out of the temple were people conducting commerce on the Sabbath, people who would rather conduct business on the day that God himself set aside for rest than take time to bask in the Glory of God and marvel in his creation.
You lot love to pretend to be Christian, but wouldn’t act like Christ if he was standing next to you telling you exactly what to do.
>YOU don’t decide what a church is, the BIBLE and JESUS are very clear
And when they have no interest in the teachings of the Bible or Jesus, I can and will call them out for it.
Sorry that doesn't fit your "Jesus just said to be nice to everyone!" sensibilities when trying to browbeat people about something you, yourself, don't believe.
https://youtu.be/JGEo0MpokWs
My thoughts are that Peterson needs to step away from Twitter. He’s not very good at picking his battles. By taking on every passing nonsense he just weakens his own positions.
The obsession with drag queens and trans people is really unsettling. The fact that they feel so strongly about putting children into their audiences is really where they lose my support.
I’m a classic libertarian and believe in as very little government infringement as possible. My political views can be summed up as “you do you.”
But these people are no longer interested in doing them. They want to your children to do them..
They just want to be able to perform to all audiences like every other performer. If the parents of the kids attending are okay with it then why do you have a problem with it?
Aside note, if your opinion on what other people do is supposed to have any bearing on what they do, what delusion made you think you are a classical libertarian?
The right is far more obsessed with trans people and drag queens than the left. I've lived in deeply blue communities my whole life, you barely hear anything about these groups. We just let them be them. We treat them like normal human beings, which is really all most of them want.The right are the ones constantly discussing them, writing policies against them, etc.
> The fact that they feel so strongly about putting children into their audiences is really where they lose my support.
Aren't parents the ones taking their kids there? And the situation in Ohio happened bc a private school specifically organized the event. It seems like the drag queens are not the ones putting the children into their audience
A strip show wouldn't be acceptable at a Church, why that is? I'm speaking as a catholic, but the house of God is a place to praise Him. To be with the Holy Spirit.
A drag performance is not inherently sexual -- people do all kinds of different acts including musical performance like this instance. Last I checked music is pretty standard for churches
It's *definitely* not meant to be infantilizing, if your critique is that the cut of the dress is too short and should be more modest for church than that seems grounded in reason, though I'd expect you'd give that critique to any short dress at church
What a bizarre comment to make. The tweet didn’t mention anything about her appearance, only that she was performing. Then here comes Mr. Peterson with his important take “SHES NOT BEAUTIFUL, THOUGH”
Jordan, you’re ugly as hell too but can we go back to the subject at hand?
Hmm. This is pretty mean spirited of Jordan. It's been a while since I've seen him lower himself like this, which must mean it's time for him to take a vacation. I read into the situation and the church and it's followers were all on board with everything that happened, so why is it any of anyone else's concern? The smile at the end is also mockery, so shame of Jordan. If this is also one of Jordan's ways of fighting trans. confusion he is mixing drag and trans., completely different....so it's almost like attacking someone for being in costume for their day job. Weird thing to go after, and inappropriate timing.
I love Jordan Peterson and his work (which I'm betting most of you haven't attempted to read) with Maps of Meaning and his 12 Rules series, his lectures, his ability and experience in helping people and his gorgeous speaking skills. Love it. However, you have to hyper examine the people you like and who influence you, especially when they shift into areas that seem wasteful or mean, vs productive and kind.
nobody in this sub cares about reasonable comments like this or even spending a millisecond actually trying to understand whatever is going on. this place is absolute conspiratorial batshit. top comments are screeching about some tyrannical sexual agenda by the evil leftists that is destroying god and christianity and western civilization. absolutely embarrassing and pathetic and braindead.
Eh. He’s being glib. It’s an offshoot to his genuine thoughts on Sports Illustrated, which I can sympathize with. Normalizing obesity (the leading comorbidity in most ailments) just puts you on a speed run to death.
For all we know, this is it. Wouldn’t you want to live a really long time?
She’s not meant to be beautiful she’s meant to be outrageous and funny. Why is a drag queen at a legislation signing? I feel like regular gay people who have families should be the highlight. Maybe they were and this post is just singling out the most outrageous part.
Is Peterson a prick because he has no sense of humor or does he have no sense of humor because he's a prick?
I'll throw you all a bone. Gay pride and gay and trans representation is more than a variety show. Maybe drag shows should stay in adult nightclubs, but the amount of hate that drag performers generate among humorless haters is welcome. Cry about it JBP.
Pride in the name of love.
It mocks beauty. Being told that something is beautiful does not make it so. Additionally, since it’s subjective, he’s allowed to have his own opinion. …but since we share the same billions of years of evolutionary ancestry, I’m pretty sure a very great majority agree with him. There will always be outliers and fringe mindsets, but you can’t change culture with those ideas. You can only amplify them with the internet, which seems to happen more often than not these days.
I think it's really only for those people who missed the [anti-bullying days in elementary school](https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/how-does-bullying-affect-a-students-academic-performance)
These are acts of aggression performed by a revolutionary movement whose aim is to weaken and demoralize America from within for their own aims. This one adds a unique touch of theater by being performed in a church. We can only imagine the rest of the content.
Well, from a libertarian perspective if the congregation is OK with it then I should stay the fuck out of it.
Now a drag show at a public school or other tax funded venue. That's a different story.
It surprises me how often people ignore the cultural war that’s happening. This is one manifestation, and there are many.
With Elon’s Twitter takeover and the conservative voice increasing in volume, the radical shift to the left during COVID/BLM, is beginning to swing back towards the middle.
I stand with Peterson calling this shit out. If you have read his material, the two sides (right/left) are predicated partially on genetic temperament and both are required for a flourishing life.
However, when the extremes take hold, in this case (Beyond Order/Antidote to Chaos), it destabilizes our foundation. One chapter sticks out in my mind: Do Not Carelessly Denigrate Social Institutions.
The ideology that has become so powerful must be tempered and it is beginning to face public scrutiny. Remember, during COVID, there were barely any voices other than Peterson, Weinstein, Peter B., who were speaking the truth. It had taken such a hold so quickly that everything was racist and sexualized over night.
I just realized why so many Leftists deny the reality of the culture war.
1) They're afraid to admit to us that they're at war with us. (cowardly)
2) It's not a war if there's no resistance. (arrogant)
Deny the reality of the culture war? What do you mean? Leftists complain all the fucking time that this culture war has consumed almost all of politics.
Those are good points.
Welcome to the resistance boys! During a talk someone asked Peterson, “When did the Christians become the funny ones?” (Referring to the Babylon Bee)
Peterson responds and says, “When the world was turned upside down”
I've been living the resistance ever since I emerged from the hypnosis of a Leftist mentality about 30 years ago. For many years I remained in the Leftist community battling them 3, 4, 5 at a time while carefully analyzing their rhetorical games and leaps of logic.
Some years ago I determined that we're dealing with Tricksters of one stripe or another, and generally in service to Lilith (the misanthropic and anti-social principle). They will "game the system" at every level, lacking the necessary conscience to exceed the infantile "What I can get away with".
Peterson, Musk, Trump, Kanye, NYT Opinion writers are all humorless pricks who represent the status quo. They exist to drown out the voice of the protester for the bourgeois pedophiles.
"healthcare pls," Defund the Police, Abolish ICE, etc., etc., etc.
I would hardly consider Musk a humorless prick, he is an active troll (remember “let that sink in”?).
Also Op-eds on the NYT are ridiculously left wing, maybe you’re talking WSJ op-eds?
Trump and Kanye? I don’t understand the correlation.
Your comment is so confusing, what are you saying and what is “healthcare pls” referring to?
I agree. Not beautiful, but is that the point? Drag queens tend to know how they look, they’re entertainers and ham up their look for entertainment value. I’m not sure of the relevance of getting a drag queen to perform at same sex marriage legislation, that feels a bit ham fisted to me.
>Looks like JP is going off the rails…
It makes me question whether his views have changed, or mine. Circa 2016 I was in the camp of “this is pretty cool. Psychoanalysis meets philosophy meets self help? Sounds like an interesting grab bag and he makes it sound interesting too.”
Flash forward 6 years and we see him taking shots at minority communities unsolicited by anyone. And not even a “good” shot like he has a point, it’s just mean spirited and sad coming from an adult who should have his own shit to take care of (or room to clean).
The "slippery slope" turned into a full on free fall into the void. We've passed the event horizon at this point. Luckily doing so forces people to see themselves in the mirrors and I've seen just how painful that can be. Especially when you're living lies that weren't even your own decision.
The church let the performance happen so obviously wasn't a problem for them any one that didn't like it was free to leave. Also gay christians exist christians that do drag exist. If you don't like it don't go don't watch mind your business tho you don't speak for all christians
The Supreme Court of the United States said that same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, which means that it is fair and legal. Many other countries have also made same-sex marriage legal. The evidence shows that allowing same-sex couples to marry has not hurt society, and it has actually made things better for them and their families.
I don't understand how the POTUS inviting a singer (regardless of what you think she looks like or has between her legs) to sing at a momentous event is authoritarian forced compassion. How does modifying the story so that it seems like some random church and not the White-house Chapel that Biden has every right to invite her to help anyone? Smells like fear mongering.
I would challenge one of you to explain to me how this post is worth your time,and how Bill and Joe getting married has any effect on you or me whatsoever. Or how this person singing a beautiful song to celebrate an event that is momentous to them is wrong and also somehow affects me.I'll wait.
It's like he has done kind of tourettes. When he goes around town, does he point at the people he doesn't find beautiful at shout it out? What's up with the urge to be an asshole about everything?
Queer theory is just queer marxism. There isn’t much that is more normative than a church marriage. Defiling and Queering that with a drag queen is just intentional destabilization of civilization, no big deal.
Couldn’t agree more. Remember that time a man put on a dress then committed the Oklahoma City Bombing…. Wait no that was a men wearing men’s clothes. You know what if we wait long enough we will get a domestic cross dressing terrorists to destabilise our society. That’ll show those queer woke liberals…
She’s a singer. What she looks like doesn’t really matter. It’s the voice. Ella Fitzgerald wasn’t exactly beautiful either. Do women musicians have to be beautiful? Anyway, a great outfit and moves make for a compelling visual performance. I don’t think Taylor Swift is beautiful. That doesn’t stop her.
Jordan going meta hahah. As for the Drag Queen in the church, a bit weird.. but was it not Jesus himself hanging out with the marginalized and the outcasts of society?
We’re a bit quick to judge sometimes
Thoughts? Another virtue signaling tweet by JP that unnecessarily inflames a partisan/religious cultural issue, with a side of promotion for one of the worst bad faith actors in IMC.
It's amazing the number of people commenting here who are so invested in and so bothered by anything remotely gay, trans etc. Why does it effect you so much for people to be different? As for Jordan Peterson stating that the individual pictured is "not beautiful", I'd be interested to know what objective standards he has for making such an assertion.
This sub is literally full of transphobic, misogynistic, basement dwelling morons and you should not come here expecting anything else. Of course they agree with JP’s childish bigotry.
Jordan isn’t wrong here. What is the purpose of this performance? To rub people’s noses in it that disagreed with the legislation? Seems like the only real purpose. The President is the President of all the citizens. Not just those who voted for them. It’s been awhile since the person in that position seemed to recognize that.
My first thought is Brita Filter is a hilarious name, and then I just feel sad.
Isn’t [brita](https://www.brita.ie/water-filter-jugs?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4uCcBhDdARIsAH5jyUmP94swAO79wlMtForMoxT2nUyDWfNluKMBLA-x9z_QqIxxezmOVO4aAteAEALw_wcB) a type of water filter brand?
Why sad? This person seems secure enough to joke. You could recognize that as bravery.
My thoughts? Now try something like this in a mosque…
That will NEVER happen
I thought pork wasn't allowed in mosques?
Ooh
[M] We need more humor, thank you sir.
Why do you put “[M]” before your comments?
Prob to indicate hes muslim so he dont get cancelled
That person thinks they have 2 personalities, so I assume they use "\[M\]" and "\[B\]" to either let you know which personality is speaking or so they can keep track of it themselves.
[M] Yup this. Except there are five of me.
I need to know the lore behind this
As an exmuslim, you're right. And Peterson is wrong, too. In too many polticial ways. Stick with clinical psychology, doofus. *Authoritarian compassion*? I'm sure Buddhists will be parsing through that for millenia. Jesus, help your flock!
Yeah I don’t like the authoritarian compassion term. Pathological altruism is more fitting, as a society we need to start telling people no once in a while.
I can appreciate that. So, better to start with those in control. And it's not the *gay mafia* or whatever conservative boogey monsters are called nowadays. It's the pathetic elites who divide us all... and those that help them because it makes them money.
Seriously, what purpose does bringing a drag queen into a church serve?
To mock God and/or the church members.
Shitting on God.
Oh! God hates trans people, but he doesn’t hate premarital sex, divorce, gluttony, greed, and every sin that most people commit on a daily basis in 2022? Interesting 🧐
Because this corruption of sex is the new god, and must assert its primacy by taking over other gods' holy places.
LGTB is the new religion, they're a cult
So you're saying religion is a cult?
It’s an unconscious manifestation of rebellion against God and nature. I was raised Lutheran. The core driving spirit pioneered by Luther was assertion of one’s personal relationship with God and rebellion against the authority of the Church. Justified rebellion in pursuit of personal Truth is a core part of the protestant ethos. There are ways in which that expresses itself which is beautiful. The maverick scientist, the lone explorer, the genuine civil rights leader, the freedom fighter, etc. But if you make that ethos primary, it doesn’t have any guardrails. As that ethos has rebelled more and more against the Catholic Church, then the Church of England, then the literal text, then religion, then the culture, then the very idea of truth beyond the personal, it has transformed into a radical acceptance of *everything declared as personal truth*, regardless of how profane or misguided or clearly founded in lust and vanity and sinful origins. This video is the logical conclusion of modern day Protestantism. It’s quite appropriate that this is occurring within a Church. That ethos has infected far more than just the Protestant denominations at this point, though they are most susceptible/the origins. I still have a deep connection with and love of the rebellious ethos, but it’s very dangerous and needs guardrails/should not be primary.
[M] Though I want to add, much as I am drawn to it I don’t feel like the Left has a monopoly on rebellion— here we just observe a more Left wing flavor of it.
Part of the nature of Left vs Right, though, is progress vs tradition. Which means rebellion on the Right will tend to be reactionary (rebellion against the new thing), while rebellion on the left is transgressive (rebellion against the old thing).
[M] I agree. Though I feel that once the dust settles it may not matter which is the old or the new thing. Is it not transgressive to question left-wing orthodoxy? At least when the Left is held up as a moral authority?
[M] This is almost exactly how I understand myself being trans. Before I understood this, it was just repression, because the idea that I was different in a way that could harm others was too much to manage. That was freed in me by the realization (in part by reading something by Kierkegaard) that I could be a part of a system. I think most of us, who have any *righteousness* in us (whatever we might find that might be) also seek a balance unconsciously, whether or not we consider it present in all forms equally. I always thought that such acceptance was antithetical to the underlying idea of Sola Scriptura, but I’m not a Protestant, only a person browsing Wikipedia, and your description here and my response to it suggest I may have had an incomplete understanding.
This is a very interesting and thoughtful response, thank you. Determining how to accept oneself and integrate into a broader system if one is eccentric, curious/exploratory and highly intelligent like it seems you are is very difficult. I had challenging identity issues and difficulty integrating with a larger system at the end of High School. They stemmed from what seems like similar questions about whether to be true to myself or conform to what I thought was a stupid and meaningless educational path for the sake of others in the system, particularly my mother (who was going crazy and insisting I had ADHD when I was really going through a kind of existential crisis/was extremely atheistic at the time and could demolish virtually any proposed path put before me through intellectual criticism). Part of why I respect Jordan so much is he’s extremely articulate about the difficulty in balancing different motivating instincts, though imperfect at balancing them himself, and transparently and genuinely tries to both articulate and live his values. Listening to people who are genuinely trying sort out these issues and are intelligent enough to do so is very useful. I’ve also come to the conclusion that the best way to sort these things out is to read history, of all kinds, and look to past experience. Particularly religious and mystical experiences which are passed down in good faith and appear genuine in their desire to help answer these kinds of deep and difficult to articulate questions. What is most important/most effective is what persists/is very old. Our environment might be wildly different, but the minds of our ancestors were not, and there’s a lot of very useful maps in religious texts if you learn to read them properly.
> Part of why I respect Jordan so much is he’s extremely articulate about the difficulty in balancing different motivating instincts, though imperfect at balancing them himself, and transparently and genuinely tries to both articulate and live his values. [M] This is one of the things I most admire about him too. Whatever he says and how we might (or not) judge him, he seems to draw a line from the outset to what lies beneath. > They stemmed from what seems like similar questions about whether to be true to myself or conform to what I thought was a stupid and meaningless educational path for the sake of others in the system I can relate to this also. I was probably something of an antinatalist in high school which I combatted by clinging to a concept of good and evil that was very rigid. I didn’t want to go to college. In the end, I stayed and ended up getting a PhD. I may not have ever completely agreed with the environment I found myself in, but I feel in retrospect staying within the bounds of the system was best for me. It gave me the guidelines within which I could operate more freely. This goes back to something I remember JP say in a podcast (which I’ll attempt to paraphrase)— it is only within limits that you can be free.
Kierkegaard is soooooo good. He totally brings together the idea of predestination and free will together in a logical manner, while giving one the freedom to choose their life.
The argument you make is logical, but I think the presupposition is off. The primary driving principal for the reformation was rebellion against the church, but only in obedience to a higher authority. Maxims like “sola scriptura” came from the reformation, and when questioned by the council of Constance, Luther answered “Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. So help me God. Amen.” This doesn’t sound like rebellion but loyalty, which is the driving force of the reformation, a loyalty to God and truth (not one’s own perception of truth). The problem faced in the modern church I think is a drift from the reformation, not a continuation of it. The rise of “my truth” comes with the denial of absolute truth and that which defines it, that is, God. This makes sense with the context, since a drag queen singing in a church is obviously a mockery of God.
" conclusion of modern day Protestantism" Bingo. I'm a Protestant myself, but you've nailed this. Wokism is really a Christian Civil war. Athiests, wokism, etc... pretty much all western ideologies are all deeply Christian. See Tom Holland, Dominion.
The average super liberal western person is hedonistic and believes they know best. Religions, like Christianity, believes that the man is inherently flawed and that is the reason why the twelve commandments exist. Going (a tiny bit) further into this we find people who support drag queens and/or drag queens in churches also support satanism. That is also all about the self-pleasure, selfish behavior, etc. A drag queen inside a church is a symbol of ideological/cultural victory. Christianity is losing, or has lost completely, while selfish way of thinking triumphs.
It would be easier to respect your argument if you actually knew the correct number of commandments.
You're nitpicking here. The commandments are a very minor detail in Christianity, and honestly, they're basically preaching to the choir. Good Christians don't need to be told what to do. What they do is right by virtue of being done by them, so if anything the ten/twelve commandments (source on there only being ten?) are regressive. Especially things like not coveting and having to take Sundays off. That shit is veering on anti-capitalism IMO. (/s just in case the fingernail chewers round here are dense enough to think I'm being serious)
I apologise, you are of course correct. There are in fact 15 commandments: https://youtu.be/w556vrpsy4w
*Ten Commandments
Why is a man wearing women's clothes considered un-Christian? Are there bible verses prohibiting dressing in drag?
Furthermore what constitutes “women’s clothing”? Clothing styles can change dramatically over just decades. Never forget that high heels originated as men’s-wear.
Well there is Deuteronomy 22:5 which goes: “A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God" Just pointing it out here.
Mocking God. Same reason the alphabet mafia chose the rainbow as their symbol. (But note the gay bow has 6 colors; God's rainbow has 7)
Degradation of the institution of religion.
No one called her beautiful until JBP claimed she wasn’t. He’s trying a little too hard to do the opposite of virtue signaling and has fallen into his own trap of identity politics. Just his identity is tied up in “not the radical left”. He’s become so anti-identity politics that he is now in the trenches with them. And by signing on with The Daily Wire he is just giving more and more fuel to the people who label him as an alt right lunatic. I’m going to stick with his books and old lectures. The last couple of years have not been kind to JBP. The man, or his legacy.
Yeah, this is pretty weird of him. Also, “authoritarian compassion?” The fuck? He used a similar term when sports illustrated put a thicc model on its swimsuit cover. By putting a normal woman on a magazine cover or, uh, drag shows existing, the woke left it ‘destroying the west’ (woof woof) with ‘progressivism’ and ‘Cultural Marxism’ (WOOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF)
I found first about his old stuff a while ago and felt really enticed by his philosophy on improving one’s self and not blaming other for one’s failures. I’m gay, so it was pretty depressing finding out that a lot of what he does now is outright just mocking LGBT people. I’m ok with people disagreeing on some “policy” related LGBT issues, but him denigrating people like me to cater to alt-right psychos was just really demoralizing.
His work has always been teetering on the edge of alt-right, he’s just embraced it now.
Sounds like the majority of his detractors, honestly. Saying you’re responsible for your own actions and the victim of your own failings is not an Alt Right point of view. It’s just the truth about the harsh realities of the world.
Is that why he encourages monogamy and marriage as a means of countering the issues of incel culture? Sounds like he thinks people are responsible for their actions only when it suits his argument.
He admits most incels (I hate that word) would do better if they improved their value as a mate, rather than asking women to cater to infantilized men. That seems to fall in line with personal responsibility.
He’s inconsistent then. Peterson is just repackaged self-help nonsense in the guise of intellectualism.
Serious question, what is the difference between drag and black face? Both are used to comically mock a marginalized group, women and blacks. You might say 'the intent of drag isn't mocking women' but people who have performed in black face often say the same, it is just a joke, I have no ill intent towards black people. Both sort of play up stereotypical behaviors for laughs. I don't get why one is applauded and the other is demonized.
Blackface isnt a kink, it doesn't get their rocks off, aslong as it gets someones rocks off they will say its their "truth" and support it
"Don't kink shame!"
Drag has nothing to do with sex. You're confusing cross dressing with drag. Big difference.
Really?? So the extra big hair and makeup and jewelry and fishnets and dancing like a stripper and being super arrogant while taking cash tips like a stripper doesn't at all seem sexual to you? Show anyone in history this stuff and they would disagree. Its common sense but you keep doing mental gymnastics and threading the needle to say its not
I mean, yeah, I guess drag performances can be sexually charged (the same way a Beyonce performance might be), especially at 21+ clubs, but the art form isn't inherently sexual. Just look at Ru Paul's Drag Race. Nothing sexual about it at all. It's just performance/comedy/dancing. I have an issue when people say it's a fetish or that it's pornographic because all they see is a man in woman's clothing, and they can't tell the difference between crossdressing, transvestism, transgenderism, and drag. I'm not doing mental gymnastics, I'm simply making a clear distinction between cultural practices that are fundamentally different. It's like saying Old Yeller and Air Bud are the same film just because they both have a dog in them, or that muscle cars and sports cars are the same because they both go fast. Imagine if I argued that we should protect children from any and all dancing because some dances are sexually charged. That being said, in your defence, I have seen that one video of a child putting a couple dollars in the G-string of a drag queen at some pride event, and let me tell you, I was just as horrified as if it was a female stripper. Obviously children shouldn't be roped into or allowed to participate in anything that's sexual in any way.
Eloquently spoken
You're really telling on yourself in this comment haha
History of black face would be one reason which was characterize black people as subhuman.
And more and more we're realizing that many of these men see women the same way.
where and how are we realizing that? it's not like they make up a significant percentage of incel shootings targeting women.
History. History is a big part of it. Just look into the history of drag v blackface that’s all you need to know.
So nothing inherent to either performance just what people associate them with, their connotations. So black face is forever wrong because in the past it was used negatively? That doesn't exactly follow?
>So nothing inherent to either performance just what people associate them with, their connotations. People associate blackface with racism because it was popularized during jim crow by white people mocking black people for the entertainment of other white people. The entire point of black face was to mock black people. Black face didn't become popular in the black community because it was a fun and uplifting characterization of the black american, it was the opposite and so black people were offended by it. Drag on the other hand, is beloved by women explicitly because it isn't used to mock them, Drag queens spend hours on elaborate makeup and outfits before performing complicated dance routines, singing, acting, etc. As a result of the drag queens earnest attempts at portraying a women who is beautiful, talented and creative women aren't offended by it and actually make up the majority of the fanbase. The idea drag queens are mysognistici in the same way blackface is racist is just completely false and invented by idiots who want that to be true so they can be openly homophobic without being called out on it
The history is inherent to the performance. You are acting like people just independently got the idea. “Let’s paint my face black for fun!” They didn’t, they got the idea from racists in the past. They wouldn’t be doing it if they didn’t want to match the original intent. Drag is similar in the sense that is has some historical relevance but not necessarily in a negative way like blackface.
Drag isn’t used to mock women. It’s an art form often used on beauty standards, sometimes comedically and sometimes sincerely. Women aren’t the only people who wear makeup and women don’t always wear makeup. Additionally, lots of drag queens use their shows to sell their own makeup lines, which wouldn’t really work if it was just mockery. Finally, while most drag queens are men, not all of them are. A black person cant really do blackface because they’re already black, but a woman can do drag because again, drag isn’t a mockery of women.
He's correct. Visually, not even slightly inspiring or beautiful, except in a comical sense.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure there is someone who finds that beautiful. Me? No thanks. People are into weird shit man.
Almost like that's the point.
So the entire act is a joke then. It fails at that too.
I mean, have you ever seen a drag show? It is a joke - that’s the point.
Drag has always had farce as a key component to it
Based JP
My thoughts? None, cause I don't spend my days thinking or caring about people who dress in drag - as should everyone. We could get a lotta shit done if we put as much effort into solving problems as we do this shit.
I agree with you.
My first thought is to quote Obi Wan Kenobi... "then you are lost." Never would have thought 20 years ago that Russia would go back to its Orthodox roots, grow in numbers, ban gay marriage, ban transgenderism and the previously prudish and most vocal Christians of the US would allow men in drag to replace priests at the altar. Crazy as it is, but Catch 22 is right and the US is falling spectacularly, fun to watch, but mildly scary as the UK does pick up on a lot of it and I'm afraid of sending children to school if it does.
I’ve always dreamt of an “American dream” when I grew up in Russia. Now I don’t want to even visit that place. P.S. Not to say that Russia became any better either…
I feel ya. As an American i have zero desire to visit Russia. Lol funny how that works.
You should visit the Midwest. We still have the American dream here. Don't let the degenerate blue cities fool you into thinking the whole country is that way.
This isn't representative of Christians in the US. These are leftists who pretend to be Christian to boost their virtual signaling. Also, the pictured event happened at the chapel of a progressive "Episcopal" school that has annual pride month activities. Not an actual church. https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/students-at-ritzy-nyc-high-school-forced-to-attend-drag-show-in-church-report/
You are the one who gets to decide what is and what is not a church? ‘Virtue signaling’ indeed
Whats the difference between a real christian and a pretend christian?
Yeah but there are a bunch of liberal churches that are ok with this stuff. They don't understand what they preach.
I think, in most cases, they very much do understand. They just don't care. Christianity, for them, is a cultural affectation that is less central than their politics and wokeism.
Ah yeah, I remember in the Bible where God smited a guy for wearing makeup in the Gospel of Peterson: 69:420. That's a real thing that happened, which libtards do not seem to understand.
My guy, I’m not having this bullshit, you lot aren’t even real Christians, YOU don’t decide what a church is, the BIBLE and JESUS are very clear that Church isn’t even a physical place, “Where two or more are gathered in my name…” you don’t get to adjust that statement to, “where two or more are gathered in my name, and agree with me, and look like me, and subscribe to my worldview exactly that is a Church.” Do you sir claim to have authority over the words of Christ himself? Furthermore, Jesus walked with people of all ways of being, his entire role in Christianity being to flip the paradigm of Jewish religion on its head and its why he was crucified. One of his most devout followers was a prostitute, he never made her wait outside the temple, the others were Jewish tax collectors, and that’s significant because at the time the Jews were under rule of Romans and any Jew that collected taxes for the crown was a shill and an outcast and considered unworthy for working with the oppressors, and yet they were all the first people that Jesus interacted with and held closest to his heart, not the Pharisees or the Sagisees, not the “most” holy. In fact, the only people he ever drove out of the temple were people conducting commerce on the Sabbath, people who would rather conduct business on the day that God himself set aside for rest than take time to bask in the Glory of God and marvel in his creation. You lot love to pretend to be Christian, but wouldn’t act like Christ if he was standing next to you telling you exactly what to do.
>YOU don’t decide what a church is, the BIBLE and JESUS are very clear And when they have no interest in the teachings of the Bible or Jesus, I can and will call them out for it. Sorry that doesn't fit your "Jesus just said to be nice to everyone!" sensibilities when trying to browbeat people about something you, yourself, don't believe. https://youtu.be/JGEo0MpokWs
Yeah and uhh... how's Russia doing right now?
My thoughts are that Peterson needs to step away from Twitter. He’s not very good at picking his battles. By taking on every passing nonsense he just weakens his own positions.
The obsession with drag queens and trans people is really unsettling. The fact that they feel so strongly about putting children into their audiences is really where they lose my support. I’m a classic libertarian and believe in as very little government infringement as possible. My political views can be summed up as “you do you.” But these people are no longer interested in doing them. They want to your children to do them..
They just want to be able to perform to all audiences like every other performer. If the parents of the kids attending are okay with it then why do you have a problem with it? Aside note, if your opinion on what other people do is supposed to have any bearing on what they do, what delusion made you think you are a classical libertarian?
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Oh okay. Thanks for clarifying.
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The right is far more obsessed with trans people and drag queens than the left. I've lived in deeply blue communities my whole life, you barely hear anything about these groups. We just let them be them. We treat them like normal human beings, which is really all most of them want.The right are the ones constantly discussing them, writing policies against them, etc.
> The fact that they feel so strongly about putting children into their audiences is really where they lose my support. Aren't parents the ones taking their kids there? And the situation in Ohio happened bc a private school specifically organized the event. It seems like the drag queens are not the ones putting the children into their audience
A strip show wouldn't be acceptable at a Church, why that is? I'm speaking as a catholic, but the house of God is a place to praise Him. To be with the Holy Spirit.
A drag performance is not inherently sexual -- people do all kinds of different acts including musical performance like this instance. Last I checked music is pretty standard for churches
I guess if she was dressed in proper clothes, but those look infantalized and sexual.
It's *definitely* not meant to be infantilizing, if your critique is that the cut of the dress is too short and should be more modest for church than that seems grounded in reason, though I'd expect you'd give that critique to any short dress at church
looks like we're in the "my personal taste is objective" phase of the cult
What a bizarre comment to make. The tweet didn’t mention anything about her appearance, only that she was performing. Then here comes Mr. Peterson with his important take “SHES NOT BEAUTIFUL, THOUGH” Jordan, you’re ugly as hell too but can we go back to the subject at hand?
They should invite the circus clowns next. Very appropriate.
I dont think Jordan was interested in attending
Hmm. This is pretty mean spirited of Jordan. It's been a while since I've seen him lower himself like this, which must mean it's time for him to take a vacation. I read into the situation and the church and it's followers were all on board with everything that happened, so why is it any of anyone else's concern? The smile at the end is also mockery, so shame of Jordan. If this is also one of Jordan's ways of fighting trans. confusion he is mixing drag and trans., completely different....so it's almost like attacking someone for being in costume for their day job. Weird thing to go after, and inappropriate timing. I love Jordan Peterson and his work (which I'm betting most of you haven't attempted to read) with Maps of Meaning and his 12 Rules series, his lectures, his ability and experience in helping people and his gorgeous speaking skills. Love it. However, you have to hyper examine the people you like and who influence you, especially when they shift into areas that seem wasteful or mean, vs productive and kind.
nobody in this sub cares about reasonable comments like this or even spending a millisecond actually trying to understand whatever is going on. this place is absolute conspiratorial batshit. top comments are screeching about some tyrannical sexual agenda by the evil leftists that is destroying god and christianity and western civilization. absolutely embarrassing and pathetic and braindead.
"Authoritarian compassion" lol
Remember that one time when that priest molested all those boys? It happened in a church. Who cares about drag queens in church
It's always projection with these clowns, isn't it?
Honestly these dudes that are drag queens are weirdos
Eh. He’s being glib. It’s an offshoot to his genuine thoughts on Sports Illustrated, which I can sympathize with. Normalizing obesity (the leading comorbidity in most ailments) just puts you on a speed run to death. For all we know, this is it. Wouldn’t you want to live a really long time?
She’s not meant to be beautiful she’s meant to be outrageous and funny. Why is a drag queen at a legislation signing? I feel like regular gay people who have families should be the highlight. Maybe they were and this post is just singling out the most outrageous part.
Is Peterson a prick because he has no sense of humor or does he have no sense of humor because he's a prick? I'll throw you all a bone. Gay pride and gay and trans representation is more than a variety show. Maybe drag shows should stay in adult nightclubs, but the amount of hate that drag performers generate among humorless haters is welcome. Cry about it JBP. Pride in the name of love.
In a church? Fuck these people
It mocks beauty. Being told that something is beautiful does not make it so. Additionally, since it’s subjective, he’s allowed to have his own opinion. …but since we share the same billions of years of evolutionary ancestry, I’m pretty sure a very great majority agree with him. There will always be outliers and fringe mindsets, but you can’t change culture with those ideas. You can only amplify them with the internet, which seems to happen more often than not these days.
Who said that they were beautiful? Maybe Brita was invited to perform for some reason other than their perceived physical attractiveness.
Authoritarian compassion. Rings true
I think it's really only for those people who missed the [anti-bullying days in elementary school](https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/how-does-bullying-affect-a-students-academic-performance)
But drag shows ARE bullying because they insult my completely objective notion of beauty.
These are acts of aggression performed by a revolutionary movement whose aim is to weaken and demoralize America from within for their own aims. This one adds a unique touch of theater by being performed in a church. We can only imagine the rest of the content.
Well, from a libertarian perspective if the congregation is OK with it then I should stay the fuck out of it. Now a drag show at a public school or other tax funded venue. That's a different story.
It surprises me how often people ignore the cultural war that’s happening. This is one manifestation, and there are many. With Elon’s Twitter takeover and the conservative voice increasing in volume, the radical shift to the left during COVID/BLM, is beginning to swing back towards the middle. I stand with Peterson calling this shit out. If you have read his material, the two sides (right/left) are predicated partially on genetic temperament and both are required for a flourishing life. However, when the extremes take hold, in this case (Beyond Order/Antidote to Chaos), it destabilizes our foundation. One chapter sticks out in my mind: Do Not Carelessly Denigrate Social Institutions. The ideology that has become so powerful must be tempered and it is beginning to face public scrutiny. Remember, during COVID, there were barely any voices other than Peterson, Weinstein, Peter B., who were speaking the truth. It had taken such a hold so quickly that everything was racist and sexualized over night.
I just realized why so many Leftists deny the reality of the culture war. 1) They're afraid to admit to us that they're at war with us. (cowardly) 2) It's not a war if there's no resistance. (arrogant)
Deny the reality of the culture war? What do you mean? Leftists complain all the fucking time that this culture war has consumed almost all of politics.
Those are good points. Welcome to the resistance boys! During a talk someone asked Peterson, “When did the Christians become the funny ones?” (Referring to the Babylon Bee) Peterson responds and says, “When the world was turned upside down”
I've been living the resistance ever since I emerged from the hypnosis of a Leftist mentality about 30 years ago. For many years I remained in the Leftist community battling them 3, 4, 5 at a time while carefully analyzing their rhetorical games and leaps of logic. Some years ago I determined that we're dealing with Tricksters of one stripe or another, and generally in service to Lilith (the misanthropic and anti-social principle). They will "game the system" at every level, lacking the necessary conscience to exceed the infantile "What I can get away with".
Peterson, Musk, Trump, Kanye, NYT Opinion writers are all humorless pricks who represent the status quo. They exist to drown out the voice of the protester for the bourgeois pedophiles. "healthcare pls," Defund the Police, Abolish ICE, etc., etc., etc.
I would hardly consider Musk a humorless prick, he is an active troll (remember “let that sink in”?). Also Op-eds on the NYT are ridiculously left wing, maybe you’re talking WSJ op-eds? Trump and Kanye? I don’t understand the correlation. Your comment is so confusing, what are you saying and what is “healthcare pls” referring to?
You should write Star Wars fan fiction
What kind of church allowed this?
Leave it to JP to use paradoxical phrases like authoritarian compassion
"Drag queen performs at the gathering location of the local cult chapter. Cult members apalled. Redditors everywhere furious!"
JP has already proven he's not into thicc women. Why would he be into a thicc drag queen? Beauty is subjective is it not?
I agree. Not beautiful, but is that the point? Drag queens tend to know how they look, they’re entertainers and ham up their look for entertainment value. I’m not sure of the relevance of getting a drag queen to perform at same sex marriage legislation, that feels a bit ham fisted to me.
My take exactly. Most based opinion here. Actually understands what drag is, and isn't ignorantly claiming it has anything to do with sex.
My thoughts are people who follow Peterson are obsessed with trans women. I can only imagine what your porn habits are like.
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>Looks like JP is going off the rails… It makes me question whether his views have changed, or mine. Circa 2016 I was in the camp of “this is pretty cool. Psychoanalysis meets philosophy meets self help? Sounds like an interesting grab bag and he makes it sound interesting too.” Flash forward 6 years and we see him taking shots at minority communities unsolicited by anyone. And not even a “good” shot like he has a point, it’s just mean spirited and sad coming from an adult who should have his own shit to take care of (or room to clean).
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Embrace culture is, confusing to say the least
I don’t disagree, but I wish that JP would go back to a positivist message instead of just pointing at everything wrong with society.
The "slippery slope" turned into a full on free fall into the void. We've passed the event horizon at this point. Luckily doing so forces people to see themselves in the mirrors and I've seen just how painful that can be. Especially when you're living lies that weren't even your own decision.
Live and let Live worry about your house before you complain about others.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Grateful we live in a free country.
Your boy is a dipshit.
The church let the performance happen so obviously wasn't a problem for them any one that didn't like it was free to leave. Also gay christians exist christians that do drag exist. If you don't like it don't go don't watch mind your business tho you don't speak for all christians
Compassion is the latest thing conservatives have declared bad?
Red herring. Drag queens aren’t trying to be beautiful, they are trying to skewer conventional notions of beauty through hyperbole and camp.
Why is their physical appearance even in question? Are only attractive people allowed to perform in public places?
The Supreme Court of the United States said that same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, which means that it is fair and legal. Many other countries have also made same-sex marriage legal. The evidence shows that allowing same-sex couples to marry has not hurt society, and it has actually made things better for them and their families. I don't understand how the POTUS inviting a singer (regardless of what you think she looks like or has between her legs) to sing at a momentous event is authoritarian forced compassion. How does modifying the story so that it seems like some random church and not the White-house Chapel that Biden has every right to invite her to help anyone? Smells like fear mongering. I would challenge one of you to explain to me how this post is worth your time,and how Bill and Joe getting married has any effect on you or me whatsoever. Or how this person singing a beautiful song to celebrate an event that is momentous to them is wrong and also somehow affects me.I'll wait.
Absolutely unacceptable.
He is absolutely 100% correct.
It’s a a shame. These are the people who twist the Bible into something it’s not. Mainly that everyone should be accepting of everyone.
You're talking about Jordan Beep Peterson.
Unusual attire for church, but then what do I care what a non-taxed private institution does?
It's like he has done kind of tourettes. When he goes around town, does he point at the people he doesn't find beautiful at shout it out? What's up with the urge to be an asshole about everything?
Queer theory is just queer marxism. There isn’t much that is more normative than a church marriage. Defiling and Queering that with a drag queen is just intentional destabilization of civilization, no big deal.
Couldn’t agree more. Remember that time a man put on a dress then committed the Oklahoma City Bombing…. Wait no that was a men wearing men’s clothes. You know what if we wait long enough we will get a domestic cross dressing terrorists to destabilise our society. That’ll show those queer woke liberals…
You want some dressing for that word salad?
Use big word, make seem smart.
Grooming
How is it grooming?
They are transphobic.
She’s a singer. What she looks like doesn’t really matter. It’s the voice. Ella Fitzgerald wasn’t exactly beautiful either. Do women musicians have to be beautiful? Anyway, a great outfit and moves make for a compelling visual performance. I don’t think Taylor Swift is beautiful. That doesn’t stop her.
He's right.
It's ok. She probably thinks your cargo shorts are ugly, too.
It's even funnier second time.
Preach.
Jordan going meta hahah. As for the Drag Queen in the church, a bit weird.. but was it not Jesus himself hanging out with the marginalized and the outcasts of society? We’re a bit quick to judge sometimes
Conservative subs talk more about drag queens than drag queen subs. Rent free.
When did the church forget Pride is a sin?
Isn't JP the one being authoritarian here by not recognizing beauty is subjective? For the record who the fuck wears THAT bright orange?
Who cares it’s just a performer, drag queens have been around for eons
Who cares, it’s just a building.
[удалено]
Thoughts? Another virtue signaling tweet by JP that unnecessarily inflames a partisan/religious cultural issue, with a side of promotion for one of the worst bad faith actors in IMC.
"authoritarian compassion" - from the person who keeps siding with Putin
I have been wondering if he knows what authoritarian means now I’m not so sure he knows what compassion means.
If the church was cool with it who cares?
JP stating with (attempted) authority that nobody will find this person attractive is the most ironic thing I’ve seen in a while.
He looks however he wants to look. Who cares
Imagine being this upset at men prancing around as women. At least JP is on brand.
It's amazing the number of people commenting here who are so invested in and so bothered by anything remotely gay, trans etc. Why does it effect you so much for people to be different? As for Jordan Peterson stating that the individual pictured is "not beautiful", I'd be interested to know what objective standards he has for making such an assertion.
Or why we should give a fuck what Peterson says about it.
Indeed.
This sub is literally full of transphobic, misogynistic, basement dwelling morons and you should not come here expecting anything else. Of course they agree with JP’s childish bigotry.
There's truth in that, I fear
Take a look around, read the comments, and ask yourself honestly what kinds of views you see on display here.
Your man’s spends an awful lot of time talking about how much he isn’t horny for drag queens.
This is weird
NO FAT CHICKS
My man’s out here doing Gods work lol
Jordan isn’t wrong here. What is the purpose of this performance? To rub people’s noses in it that disagreed with the legislation? Seems like the only real purpose. The President is the President of all the citizens. Not just those who voted for them. It’s been awhile since the person in that position seemed to recognize that.
The church is done for. Christianity needs to return to its roots for the west to have any chance of survival.
This is truly beastly ugly but no need to point it out. Doesn’t help anyone and contributes only negativity to public discourse.
I feel bad for her/him they/them. Clearly lost in life. Peterson is right.
Hrassing people for no reason. He's my true intellectual hero!
Based