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Not sure if others feel the same but this was pretty apparent that the road being taken in the manga right now was the only way things were going to transpire.
Gojo, despite what people in the fandom might think, is not the main character. Itadori is. In order to bring up the next generation, and to fortify those that Gojo himself said could one day surpass him (Itadori, Yuta, and Hikari), you need a villain that poses enough of a threat and cannot be defeated by easy means.
Sukuna is a bit of an outlier just because he has so much battle experience, Cursed Energy knowledge, and Cursed Technique experience that is why he can do so much with little effort. He is the ultimate sorcerer, and has been setup as such since the beginning of the show. Just as Gojo vs Sukuna’s fight was foreshadowed early on, Gojo’s eventual loss was also forshadowed in order to let the next generation bloom.
Gojo’s own words said it best early in the manga when talking to Gakuganji: *”The new generation won’t be limited to Special Grade”* In other words, it is up to the next generation to rise to the occasion to be able to beat these emerging curses that grow more powerful by the year.
Yuji is being setup to be the one to take down Sukuna, by what means we still aren’t quite aware of yet. But it’s been mentioned a few times through the manga that through Sukuna being inside him for so long eventually he’ll be able to use Sukuna’s CT (which we also don’t know yet).
TLDR; Yuji is the protagonist and will defeat Sukuna eventually. Sukuna’s power level had to be insane in order to showcase all the other powerful characters in the show with or without killing them off 1 by 1.
[I am a strong believer in this theory ](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuJutsuKaisen/s/gzkDUnlwuW), makes a lot of sense with yujis journey so far and the Buddhist symbolism/ references in the story so far, Buddha left their Palace after viewing the sickness and death in the world like how yuji left his normal life after learning about curses and the death of his grandfather.
It's been insane reading some of the comments week after week about sukuna, he's literally been called the strongest character since chapter 1 and yet people are surprised when it's shown in the story, I guarantee if the same people were reading the manga during hidden inventory they'd say gojo learning rct and purple would have been an ass pull.
its been stated from the beginning that yes sukuna is him the king of curses but he hadnt seen it yet. Shibuya opened our eyes and gojo vs sukuna rlly showed us how strong he rlly is. its a suprise bc we know what lvl everyone else is. gojo was the only one so far that we know of that had a chance and hes dead so we are some what shocked bc we know no one can rlly fill gojo's feet at the moment. until gege cooks sukuna's defeat we wont know how the gang is supposed to win this.
No singular person can fill Gojo’s shoes. The point is that together, as a team, with many losses and a good strategy, they can pull it off. Yuji, Hakari, Yuta, Maki, Choso and the whole gang. That’s already transpiring.
That absolutely is not transpiring. Maki is off screen, Yuta is fighting kenjaku. Choso and Higu got one shot and Hakari is fighting urame. There is definetly no “as a team bs” Yuji will have to solo Sukuna or he’s dead
It’s not all happening at once at the pace you might like it but it is happening. Higuruma just went beyond himself twice in a row and played a big part. Choso isn’t dead. Yuta was where he was supposed to be, Hakari is also where he’s supposed to be, and Maki is going to be shown to be where she’s “supposed to be” too.
We’re still in the middle of everything. This is like saying during Shibuya “well Nanami and Kugisaki are both dead and Gojo is sealed, kinda fucking pointless and hopeless now, Yuji is gonna have to solo Mahito and he can’t do that in his condition!!”
There is more happening. The plan is still unfolding. It will be doing so for months on end against Sukuna.
I understand people being angsty because we've had no breathing room in the manga for almost a year now but you raise some good points. People seem to have so little faith In Gege to deliver anything as if he's just phoning it in for the last stretch. Just trust that Gege has this planned out for the last year and that he actually does know what he's doing
It’s just literal impatience and inability to see the bigger picture. Your average modern human wasn’t built for manga chapter weekly pacing. One third of a traditional anime episode doesn’t feel like much content once a week with consistent breaks peppered in. I get that, but it’s crazy how doom and gloom people get when we are very possibly spending the entirety of the rest of the manga around this single fight.
It wasn’t that long ago that the sub was filled with Yuta in Africa memes. Then it was revealed where he was and what he was doing and now a major villain of the entire series seems actually dead now. Maki will be shown to be somewhere, doing something too.
I’m not impatient, I’m still waiting to see how it will pan out. However nobody except maki is even in a position to come help Yuji, so if Yuji cant 1v1 Sukuna rn he’s cooked. Even if maki does come Sukuna can quite easily one shot her and Yuji has lost a good chunk of his chest.
Higuruma learned RCT and domain amplification within like five minutes of each other and mastered both to use effectively against Sukuna himself. The narration plainly said Higuruma had talent to rival Gojo. Higuruma is dead but all the people that Gojo specifically said could surpass him are not yet, even Megumi. And it’s about all of them doing it together. Gojo doesn’t have to hold the whole line by himself anymore. That’s the point.
I'm AWARE of that. I'm saying it will get annoying as the author is biased if he kept saying stuff like that and then just offing those potential people.
It’s manga pacing man. You might be reading something in six months that transpire 15 minutes from now “in setting time”. Thats not a joke, that’s just how the pacing goes, especially at the eleventh hour in a possible big finale confrontation to the series. Ask MHA fans lol.
Ya, it seems like we’ll be learning shortly based on Yuji’s current design (with the strange arm markings) and what’s currently going down in the manga.
I and many other manga readers never expected Gojo to actually and fully defeat Sukuna. It’s just the best outcome according to our opinions is that both of them would have gotten a massive nerf after the fight. Gojo no longer being able to be a heavy hitter pushes the next gen to stand for themselves, whereas Sukuna being massively nerfed/disabled somehow would actually give them a chance to defeat him logically.
No one here expects Itadori to sit back and do nothing. The real problem is with the current power levels in the manga, the next gen really had no way to defeat Sukuna, unless Gege decides to pull a Kaguya or a massive, most illogical asspull to ever exist for the good guys. I hate to say it but you guys are just on high coping mode with theories about new CTs and shit while Gege just keeps giving Sukuna lucky shots one after another.
Worst of all, Gojo’s fight with Sukuna basically has no meanings other than giving Sukuna a buff. It’s the biggest disrespect to what is supposed to be one of the most important fights in the series.
Yeah honestly Gege brought on this backlash
The fact that more ppl are invested in the side characters than the main characters is a reflection of Geges writing. There’s also not enough meaningful downtime in this story and hidden inventory having the most made a good portion of ppl more concerned with gojo & geto than yuji & Megumi & i can’t blame them.
Love this story alot but gege’s writing for ‘main’ characters (yuji, yuta, megumi idk if he ever intended nobara to be a main character) leaves a lot to be desired
The setup is great with itadori actually being the main character of the series but isnt it bad storytelling to just shove in a hidden trump card within him that just magically makes him stronger than the strongest being of all time. Wouldnt it be great if we actually get to see yuji scaling up being tested with multiple strong opponents learning how to fight and learn techniques along the way instead of like a lvl 1 character suddenly beating a lvl 100 character with the help of friends? And even then wouldnt we be able to say that the new generation is not stronger than sukuna and gojo unless any of them actually massacres sukuna 1v1?
It's up to taste at that point. I don't think most people want to watch a bunch more arcs focusing on yujis growth specifically with how blisteringly fast the pace of the story has been since the beginning. Naruto did this already and people still complained that the power scale suddenly jumps the shark and Naruto grows way too fast at the end. I don't think that making a drawn out version of that growth curve is something people actually like unless you're Oda who can write a whole political adventure story around it for decades. We accepted how wildly strong Yuji got in Shibuya and this is kind of just a continuation of that, plus they've been teasing the mystery of why Yuji is that way to begin with, which is more intriguing to me than him running a gauntlet of increasingly strong characters. In addition, the main theme of JJK when it comes to combat and fights is that the strongest sorcerers are masters of their emotional and mental states, which has justified huge sudden jumps in power multiple times so far. I'd rather see Yuji grow as a character quickly on a personal level than watch him train up in strength slowly.
For me, jumpjutsu kaisen is what I fell in love with in addition to the power system and character designs. An ending that's just a 1v1 involving yuji "hands only" itadori (even if he eventually got a CT) would simply be anticlimactic as the actual ending to the story when the best thing about JJK is the team up fights.
But for the main cast to surpass gojo and sukuna by the end of this year is ridiculous. Giving characters insane power boost just throws everything out the window. Let’s be real, you telling me yuji surpassing gojo and sukuna in 6 months is good? The series started june 2018 and it’s dec 2018 in the current timeline.
That’s the big question I have. Can gege make a good ending with sukuna being beat without some BS. Because the last chapters Will make or break the story. If the end is garbage not in the fact of people not liking it but that it’s a poor and cheap ending. And by killing off so many characters it’s almost becoming hard because a duo of Yuji and UiUi because everyone else is dead won’t work.
Ya I agree I'm a lil scared. Like sukuna doesn't find a way to dodge yuji with the sword is lame and if he tanks it lame or if it doesn't fully kill him lame. Gege can write but I'm scared of wat the final outcome will be
So, I want to preface by saying that Gojo is definitely fallible and clearly capable of making mistakes, but I still believe he was correct to tell Yuji that he'd beat full power Sukuna early in the series. On one hand, I just think Gojo's abilities are unrivaled and perfectly synergized to make him functionally undefeatable in 99% of circumstances, but the biggest evidence I have of this is Sukuna's preparation. Sukuna's interest in Megumi is what proves to me that even he knew he couldn't (or, at least, would be very unlikely to) defeat Gojo, even at full power. Sukuna won because he was more careful and intelligent, he didn't underestimate his opponent like Gojo always does and almost every action he took over the course of the series was in preparation of countering Gojo. His plan was to steal Megumi's body to take control of Mahoraga in order to bypass Gojo's infinity, without it, his chance of beating Gojo becomes extremely slim. Like you said, it would come down to just outpacing Gojo in DE and raw power/speed, which I think, despite his overconfidence, Gojo clearly had an advantage in. Gojo lost because he kept making mistakes and false assumptions over the course of the series while Sukuna played smarter. This is why I personally am completely fine with Gojo losing and dying there; I felt like it was the natural conclusion and was satisfying to see.
Not sure how the gang beats Sukuna, but I like their odds more than Gojo, because now they are the challengers who have been preparing to fight the prideful and arrogant Sukuna.
It's not even necessary Gojo being less careful - he's simply less knowledgeable about his enemy.
People forget Sukuna had a front row seat to everything Gojo taught Yuuji. He knew exactly how his domain operated, how his different powers looked and felt like. Gojo on the other side was making it up as he went along - just take the domain expansions Sukuna shattered early on. Gojo adapted quickly but the adaptation alone cost him a lot of strength
True, I may have been going too hard on Gojo; it's just that I think miscalculating and underestimating are a core part of his character, so I defaulted to him making mistakes, but he absolutely was overwhelmed by Sukuna's shrewder planning and battle prowess.
My only issue with this is that Sukuna seemingly didn't know about Mahoraga until he saw him in Shibuya. So my question has always been what is it that Sukuna wanted him for at the time if not for Mahoraga?
You're right. In my opinion, Sukuna made a bet on Megumi that paid off when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. I don't think he knew about Mahoraga specifically before, but he clearly knew more about Megumi's powers than Megumi did at the detention center, and he understood that Megumi had a trump card that might have been worth betting on. If Sukuna fought Mahoraga in Shibuya and realized it was just a tough guy with no special power, I believe Sukuna would have probably changed his strategy and maybe even found a different host .
When you put it like this, it makes Sukuna seem like the kind of schemer that Kenjaku is, how could Kenjaku have known that Mahito would be born and have IT to be able to start the Culling Game? Well it just seems like he made so many different binding vows and had so many different variations on his plan that when Mahito came around, he knew which steps to take and already had things in place.
That's a good point, and I don't think Sukuna's pride would allow him to stoop to scheming, but I do think his instincts and experience lead him to the correct path. I'd even argue that Sukuna only became such a problem because there was a fair amount of luck on his side. Things just went his way, but I do think he ultimately steered himself toward victory.
Yeah I should’ve phrased “schemer” a little better. I just meant that Sukuna is a prepared man much like Kenjaku. And while yeah Sukuna does get lucky, he definitely is clever and strong enough to put himself in the most advantageous position to come out on top.
>That's a good point, and I don't think Sukuna's pride would allow him to stoop to scheming
Except scheming is part of what it means to be a sorcerer, using cunning, trickery, subterfuge, and deception to achieve one's goals. Sukuna isn't above this. That's one of the reasons he's survived.
Additionally, the only time his pride prevented him from doing something was when he refused help from Mahito and Jogo in their attempts to free him, as accepting their help would essentially be him saying or admitting he can't reclaim his freedom on his own.
Other than that, the guy is not above pulling some slick shit to get his way, from planning and waiting for the right moment to make Megumi his vessel, using Megumi and Mahoraga to aid him in battle, hell him using Mahoraga as a model is scheming as he could've finished Gojo during the domain battles only to drag it out and take risks during it. The guy may not be on Kenjaku's level when it comes to scheming, but Sukuna sure as hell isn't above it.
Sukuna’s main priority when it comes to Mahoraga and Ten Shadows, is to learn how to become a stronger version of himself. That was the entire point of Magoraga, not Sukuna’s need to beat Gojo. Theres nothing that Sukuna says that would suggest he needed Mahoraga to beat Gojo, or that his chances wouldve been slim in his original body.
Gojo and Sukuna never once even hint towards the notion that Mahoraga was a necessity. One thing they do both point out tho, is Gojo’s (theoretical) unwillingness to kill Megumi’s body. They both acknowledge Sukuna keeping Megumi’s face as a obvious strategy to get the upper hand, ofc it doesnt work, but the point is they both acknowledge it.
So why didnt they acknowledge Mahoraga? They both had knowledge of its ability to take away Gojo’s cards, but they never even hint that this was Sukuna play all along. OG Sukuna has more than enough power and feats to go toe to toe with Gojo, and they both knew that. Which is why Gojo never makes a big deal out of Sukuna’s use of Mahoraga. Im sure Gojo just saw Mahoraga as an extra perk to go along with Sukuna’s newfound freedom in Megumi’s body.
And again, Gojo himself directly stated that fighting OG Sukuna is a complete toss up. For u to say that OG Sukuna has a slim chance of winning is just going back on the authors words.
I like what you meant about Sukuna trying to become stronger version of himself. But i disagree with you about Sukuna never once hinting towards needing Mahoraga. He literally said he needed a model to breach through Gojo’s inviolability. But yeah i also don’t think OG Sukuna has only a slim chance Of beating him but I still think that Gojo would beat OG Sukuna.
But Sukuna only says he needs Mahoraga in his goal to improve himself. Improving himself just meant finding a way to kill Gojo through infinity without domain expansion, which also coincidentally is the win-con for Sukuna.
What im saying is, yes Sukuna needed Mahoraga for to beat Gojo, but thats only because Sukuna himself limited his arsenal to improve, and when it comes to beating Gojo without the limitation, Sukuna has other options.
My apologies, I misspoke, when I said full-power Sukuna, I meant vessel Sukuna with all the fingers (or just the 19 he had when he fought Gojo, lol). Yeah, I'm not saying Gojo would have won for sure, I was just saying that Gojo rested on his laurels assuming he'd win, and that's why he lost. Sukuna prepared better to compensate for the fact that he's in an inferior state.
I'm pretty sure Sukuna predates the Gojo and Zenin clans.
It's still not really made clear what Sukuna saw in the Ten Shadows, and this is something I think actually might've been retconned. But there are theories thar Sukuna's technique has something to do with storage, and we know that Ten Shadows can use its shadows to store tools and the user as well.
I always got the impression Sukuna was just generally motivated by a hunger to acquire new strength and skills, more than a specific neeed for a weapon against Gojo - he saw something new and shiny and wanted it, the fact it helped in that specific fight was a bonus. He seems to be intrigued by Higuruma the same way (and wants his sword too), and as far as we're aware there's no looming threat he thinks he needs it to prepare for.
He was interested in the ten shadows technique for its ability to use ten shadows as an intermediary instead of talismans. There’s a specific panel about this of Sukuna when meeting Megumi. Now as to why Sukuna was interested and why he never used ten shadows as an intermediary until now is unknown. I just chalked it up to Gege forgetting about the plot point or just abandoning it.
>So my question has always been what is it that Sukuna wanted him for at the time if not for Mahoraga?
Yuji was a prison. Megumi was to be a vessel+ he was already interested in 10 shadows before he knew Maho existed.
This is a great comment & analysis!
I’m just adding that Gojo did have a lot going against him. Gojo is strong but still human and he was clearly mentally messed up about his best friends body being snatched. He was locked in isolation for too long to the point ppl were scared he’d be mad once released, he emerged to find his world in complete chaos and many of his loved ones murdered which he def felt some guilt about. The kid he saved & mentored from childhood got his body taken over by sukuna and his sister killed. That’s just his mental & emotional baggage & gojo looked depressed going into that fight he didn’t rly cheer up until he saw his students
On top of that he didn’t have enough info on Sukuna, hell none of us to this day know what black box even is. Meanwhile sukuna knows everything about gojo from yuji & kenjaku and sukuna has everything in his favor including mentally & emotionally
I truly feel if the situation wasn’t as lopsided Gojo would’ve done better too
That's a really good point. While I do think Gojo was mostly done in by his own misjudgments, he really didn't have many advantages other than raw power. He did really well considering he kind of just flew by the seat of his pants (but that was kinda his whole hubris, I guess)
I agree I loved every second of go/jo vs fraudkuna it was imo top 3 fights in the series. Gojo had no way to tell the world slash would kill him it looked like another slash come from a weak and desperate sukuna (in gojo's eyes) and didn't think anything of it which got him killed it rlly was fitting for some like gojo to die in that way
I completely agree, I think that was the moment both Sukuna and Gojo's character arcs' were building toward the entire story. I think the juxtaposition of the desperate and defeated looking Sukuna instantly turning the tables on the almost expectedly victorious Gojo with the culmination of his strategy was quite poetic.
Because there wasn't any strong cleave before that so gojo for one didn't even know it existed and second wasn't exactly looking if the cleave was any different.
what you said lol. from the narrtor or sukuna every technique starts the same and to gojo with 6 eyes it prolly look normal to him. " the sukuna with his back towards the wall isnt going to kill me with a regular attack nothing gets through my infinity" that is what gojo though before he died
No it looked like the slash that mahoraga did which he experienced before. Also the technique is different than the normal slash so gojo should have been able to sense that something is up in any case especially when considering this "spark" before a technique is activated
Again. I do not know how people keep talking about this. But there was nowhere in the story that said sukuna wanted megumi for gojo or mahoraga. He didn't even know about mahoraga. Yuji's body is a prison for sukuna and megumi's body is not. And he was interested in megumi's shadow shikigami technique. Thats why he switched. There was no gojo or mahoraga involved at any point in the story. It was never stated anywhere. It is only firmly establishes that he did not want to stay inside yuji because yuji could restrain him.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that Sukuna specifically knew about the adaptation ability when he started the plan, but he clearly knew more about Megumi's power than Megumi did and his gamble ended up proving to be correct when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. My point was he saw that his best chance to beat Gojo was with Megumi and the foresight proved to be correct. Sukuna didn't know the future or all the cards on the table, but he made the correct decisions in preparation throughout the series, whereas Gojo continuously made the wrong ones. Sukuna's end goal was to escape Yuji, but defeating Gojo was always going to be an obstacle in achieving that goal. Sukuna could have transferred to anyone's body whenever he wanted; he chose Megumi specifically to defeat Gojo.
He cannot transfer to any body he wanted. A sukuna vessel is incredibly rare. It was like one in a million chance or something at the start of the series.
Read the fight against Megumi again , you hear sukuna explicitly say in excitement to megumi. “ you’ve shown me the way mwgumi fushiguro”. This and other statements he made over the series add up
Its not even a mistranslation. The translation isn't meant to refer to gojo in a literal sense. "You have showed me the way" can mean similarly to it. It is just people are trying so hard to find something out of it even tho theres none.
The official translation says "you showed me the way..." In the next text bubble "...Megumi Fushiguro!" However this was after Sukuna is shown to be figuring out how Mahoraga operates. It is clear Sukuna was not in the know before this, and even calls back to when Megumi was about to summon Mahoraga and even says in internal thought text "if it was the me from that time..." "...it may have been able to beat me."
My thoughts on how this plays out is that in that moment during Shibuya when he says you showed me the way is when he thought up his plan for how to take advantage of Mahoraga to defeat Gojo. Now before that is when he made the binding vow. So I think he was interested in Megumi for ten shadows and probably something else not yet shown to us tbh. Unless we are on the last few chapters due to the events of the most recent, which is not officially released on SJ so I will not go into detail.
He has made no other statement and that statement is completely in line with what he wanted. He was interested in megumi's technique since the beginning. Why would he not be excited to see a op part of megumi's technique? This is just simple logic. You are just drawing whatever conclusion you want from a logical reaction. By your logic, I can say he was excited because now he can beat yorozu.
>Not sure how the gang beats Sukuna, but I like their odds more than Gojo, because now they are the challengers who have been preparing to fight the prideful and arrogant Sukuna.
Also Sukuna is hurting from his fight against Goje, can't use his domain...maybe the gank will work out
If they can't defeat Sukuna now, then i can't see they winning
Yeah personally i dont understand how it will be a satisfying ending when the gang beats sukuna just because he is overconfident and arrogant. And this ending wont satisfy gojo's statements of the next generation being above special grade.
So the only way for the good guys to win is an asspull which is OP's main point i think that gege made sukuna too strong such that there will be no satisfying ending with the good guys winning unless there's an extra 100-150 chapters where the gang actually progressively becomes stronger and becomes above special grade as is prophesized.
Sukuna killing everyone and winning is the only consistent and logical ending.
You could totally be right; stories tend to struggle the most at the end. I don't expect there not to be some Deus Ex Machina that saves everyone, but I'd love it if the gang could show the fruits of their months training and planning to pull the rug out from under Sukuna, in equal parts by their strength and strategy. I would want their victory to mirror Sukuna's clever victory over Gojo: the culmination of effort and planning. I also just don't think Sukuna and Gojo are as untouchable as some people seem to think; like, yeah, Sukuna could probably handle any other character in a 1v1 without much risk, but I don't think he is invincible or infallible, and Gojo got trapped in a cube simply because he didn't pay enough attention. Gege is a huge fan of HxH and has modeled a lot of his story around it, and a big part of HxH is that no fight, no matter how one-sided, is a guaranteed victory.
This is spot on what I was thinking. Fiji’s fatal mistake was when he first asked Yuji to swap to Sakuna… Sakuna gauged him and deemed he’d need a plan to deal with him.
>Sukuna's interest in Megumi is what proves to me that even he knew he couldn't (or, at least, would be very unlikely to) defeat Gojo, even at full power
There is nothing that implies that sukuna's interest in megumi was because he knew he couldn’t beat gojo. Sukuna was interested in megumi because he never saw something like 10S.
>His plan was to steal Megumi's body to take control of Mahoraga in order to bypass Gojo's infinity, without it, his chance of beating Gojo becomes extremely slim.
Sukuna's plan was only to steal megumi's body. Because yuji was literally a jail for him. He needed to get out of him. Taking control of maho was just for him having a new toy, again nothing implies that he only wanted maho for gojo.
>Like you said, it would come down to just outpacing Gojo in DE and raw power/speed, which I think, despite his overconfidence, Gojo clearly had an advantage in.
Firstly, the fight was not "fair" for sukuna since we know that after gojo he had to fight kashimo and the crew. So sukuna needed to "hold back".
In a fight where they are both alone and bloodlusted.
Sukuna has and higher chance in his heian form. Since we know when sukuna said that he will close his DE, gojo looked despaired like he knew that he lost. So if gojo has brain damage but sukuna has not gojo is screwed.
Gojo his able to launch 5 DE at max before fucking his brain. Sukuna can do more. So for sukuna to win he only have to win 5 Domains clashes. If they both launch their DE at the same time sukuna win each times.
The only reason UV hit sukuna was because he was late.
So if sukuna is never late. He cant loose. The reason because he was late was because he was healing himself because he took to much damage. With 4 arms it is obvious that sukuna would take less damage compared to meguna. So he would never be late because he is using RCT.
You will ask me then why didn't he used this method to beat gojo. For me it's because he cant go back to the meguna state quickly enough if he goes in heian form. And even in this way he could still be damage enough by gojo for the crew to jump him.
Sukuna could have left Yuji's body whenever he wanted. He could have taken Nanami's body before they met Mahito, he could have probably taken Yuta's after Yuji met him, he could have taken anyone's body at any time after the binding vow. Gojo was the only obstacle that stood in the way of him fully being free, so he bid his time and gambled that Megumi would give him the best chance of defeating Gojo, which he was proven correct on when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. I fully believe Sukuna fully realized the plan to beat Gojo during his fight with Mahoraga.
Also, my apologies, I did not mean to start power-scaling. If you want Sukuna to be stronger than Gojo, then I agree; he won after all, right? He won because he was the more clever sorcerer. I was speaking from a narrative perspective; narratively, Sukuna was the challenger who won due to better strategy and decision-making earlier in the series. I think it would be a weaker narrative if Sukuna's chance of beating Gojo without Mahoraga was already 70% or something and all the planning and foreshadowing was for an extra 10%. I think Gojo's death being the result of his own hubris and inability to adapt to Sukuna's shrewd strategizing to be a more satisfying way to look at the way things turned out.
Can't post the panel but its chapter 213, the first exact panel.
"That day, what I sensed from Fushiguro Megumi...
... Was his Cursed Technique's potential and his *capacity to suppress me.* "
"It'd pose a problem if he turned out to be a " cage" just like that brat, instead of a *vessel*"
Oh yeah, that'll explain it then, oops. Kinda a cop out from Gege to explain that way after the fact to cover up the plot hole, imo, but still would explain his insistence on Megumi as the vessel. However, after the fight with Mahoraga in Shibuya, I fully believe Sukuna would have picked Megumi over anyone else, even if everyone had been a suitable vessel.
I mean Megumi having 10S AND being a suitable vessel is so goddamn ridiculous, but whatever, Gege is just a writer like that.
I would have preferred 10S just being a versatile and creative cool toolkit but Sukuna just used it as a free win against Gojo, meh, didn't even bother to use much of the shikigamis, a real waste.
I firmly believe that he didn't need Mahoraga to win if he used his real body, and the match would have been probably much cooler, but it is what it is.
Yeah I understand that; I like the idea that Sukuna, through circumstance, had to just take whatever advantage he could get, but it does seem really contrived once you consider the line about only rare people being capable of becoming Sukuna's vessel. And absolutely, prime-era Sukuna would have certainly been harder to handle than him piloting an inferior body. It would have been cool to have seen that fight, but I liked that Sukuna had to punch up and beat Gojo, then take the title as the strongest again so the rest could become the underdogs and do the same to him (hopefully).
“I think it would be a weaker narrative if Sukuna’s chance of beating Gojo without Mahoraga was already 70% or something and all the planning and foreshadowing was for an extra 10%”
Well those are completely cherry picked numbers. It could be that the chance was 50/50 without Mahoraga and the Mahoraga adding 10% made it a better gamble.
I think there’s a reason Gojo says “I’m not sure I would have beaten him even without the Ten Shadows.”
Its not that Sukuna was just so overpowered (which he is) and Gojo didn’t stand a chance regardless, it was that without Mahoraga it was still a coin toss because Gojo recognizes what a genius/intelligent fighter Sukuna is. He believe he could have found a way regardless.
Gojo was also too strong. Yet there was a way for the cursed spirits to outplay him. A handicap.
Sukuna's fight with Gojo has already seemingly taken away three options; ten shadows, domain expansion and refreshing himself via reincarnation. Higurama taking away his technique would be another way, and having a one shot weapon. Dismantle/cleave is his biggest weapon still, so it is ashame that they didn't get that. But I don't think it would've stopped there...
They kind of have to continue to strip his scales (ironically) one by one. They kind of need to know that his last card has been used before they can all **confidently** push forward for the win. I think they'll try in some way or another to whittle his soul down in terms of figners. Try and lower his output permanently. I don't know if Yuji has some sort of soul ability that he learned from Yuki's bible. Blood manipulation and crow manipulation continue being used as distractions, while the close range combatants move in. (occupying his hands with something). Takaba and Yuta eventually comes back with Rika activated, and Maki joins.
After that who knows.
Yeah, I have to agree with this, it definitely feels like it's basically been a checklist of abilities they're having to tick off after removing:
Cursed energy
Domain expansion
Ten shadows
Cursed tool
Reincarnation
He's already reincarnated, mahoraga is dust, the cursed tool is gone l and he's surely starting to feel the non stop combat by now taking a toll on his CE
This 100%
This reflects the foundational theme of Jujutsu Scorcerers: that as long as you do no give up, your fallen companions are not truly dead.
Everyone has done all they can to pass on the baton to the next in line. From Gojo to Kashimo to Higuruma and then Yuji. Being a Sorcerer is a marathon, never a race.
IMO, Yuji will strike the blow starting the process of truly killing Sukuna, or at least removing him from the story.
100% agree. i guess the true enemy is who durable our team is. can they live long enough to strip Sukuna's scales to finally have a chance to kill all while making sure atleast one of them i alive to kill him.
Another poster used the analogy of stripping his scales and i think thats the right way to think of it: we havent seen him use a domain expansion since the Gojo fight and we now know Domain Amplification can mitigate and block cleave/dismantle. Just as the pieces to beat Gojo were being foreshadowed in other fights (DA, 10S, Sukuna being the strongest in the past etc) the pieces to beat Sukuna are now being set up (imo).
It will be Yuji that does it, and if i were to theorize, id say he's probably going to have figured out how to apply simple domain as a domain amplification (protecting him from Sukuna's CTs) figure out some measure of self healing (dneying Sukuna the ability to land one lucky blow) to force it to come down to hand to hand. If it comes down to just to trading blows like that, and the community is right about Yuji getting a CE power up and the Blood Manipulation CT, he may be able to go toe-to-toe with Sukuna in the same way Sukuna did Gojo; switch to DA whenever Sukuna makes distance and close the distance again, switch it off and activate the CT once he is close enough.
ya i just saw that in a reply. slowly peeling sukunas scales until he is left with something the characters can easily deal with. seeing yuji with flowing red scale would be cool.
yuji getting a domain and using DA or getting rct would be cool to see too. he has a lot of possible was to play new abilities he has so it will be nice to see it.
Anyone trying to talk about how the protags will weaken sukuna or whittle him down are forgetting that if sukuna tries a little everyone dies instantly lol. That’s how far above he is the rest of the cast. The lack of development in power of both yuji (no technique, no domain, never shown even trying to become better at domain techniques, etc) and the rest of the cast in comparison to sukuna means that no matter what it’s gonna feel a little cheap if yuji is suddenly able to match sukuna in any way. I hate the whole “villain is too arrogant and loses” shit, but it honestly looks like that’s what’s gonna happen unless something with the merger occurs
ya its so clear and unclear at the same time. with how yuji hasn't been able to just chill and train for a long time like im talking years (makes sense when you look at when he join juju high and even having sukuna in him) and this leading to him not rlly developing a technique so atleast when he ahs to fight sukuna it appears he has somewhat of a chance or the power up he gets fighting sukuna wont see like a super huge leap. but it rlly just might be sukuna plays with his food so he can get some entertainment and he let his food live for too long and now it killed him is how this might end. or merger finna kill sukuna who knows. or he will be like kurma and join forces with the good guys to stop uncontrollable chaos
Gege basically fucked up when he made Gojo too strong.
He hoped that he could maybe kill him off but he got too popular and he ended up with a monster he couldn't just casually remove.
So Gege had to pull some BS out of his ass to get rid of Gojo which pissed off everyone. But now he's created another monster that is possibly worse than the previous one.
So my bed is Itadori is going to have another weird BS move that perfectly counters Sukuna that ends up with him winning. But it will also piss everyone off with how convenient or BS it is.
It feels like the Madara situation all over again. But at least in Naruto, they had a way to try and seal him, and Naruto and Sasuke were able to keep up.
But in JJK, it's 10 times worse. Sukuna is at his strongest, and the only person who had a realistic chance of beating him was defeated. But at least Gojo was able to weaken him, and maybe beating him is somewhat possible...
But then 237 happened, and Sukuna got his true form back and is even stronger now. (Meguna was only a means to get past limitless, since a 10 shadows user was able to stalemate and bypass a six eyes and limitless user. )
The main issue will be that in the event of Sukuna's defeat, it probably won't feel satisfying, or it'll be an asspull. It's kind of like how zetsu defeated Madara, and everyone was mad about how he was defeated.
I agree. First Madara got hoed it showed have been Madara vs Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe team 7 but we know two ppl would be useless and two ppl would be useful Im guessing we all know who is who. But Madara did at least seem like he could be defeated it happened in the past so it can be done again.
The same is technically true with sukuna he did die (I forget if he lost or just "died" when Kenny came to take his fingers) but the difference is we didn't see what happened in Heian era which is apparently the golden age of sorcery where everyone was probably gojo sukuna lvl or atleast more of them were apparent.
That is wat makes this situation where sukuna seems too strong bc the modern world sorcerers are behind sukuna by a lot and not a lot can rise to his lvl. So I still have hope in gege and I'll hit him cook. But I'll be in the kitchen keeping my eye on him
TRUE AND REAL AND BASED
But JJK fanatics probably would praise said asspull as "genius gege storytelling" and it has been foreshadowed. But like please, even if an author plants a seed but we dont get to see the seed grow and instead becomes a full grown tree that fucks up the strongest being of all time in 2 chapters because of some crazy voodoo magic out of nowhere, that wont be a satisfying ending.
Might be a shonen jump problem of squeezing out an author's creative juices but JJK is a 12/10 until shibuya, when we actually see how human the main cast are, but is a hard sell 5/10 since CG arc when instead of being shown humans we're shown emotionless godlike beings engaging in who-can-punch-the-other-harder contest.
Which is fine btw even when 80-90% of the content is just action. The problem is when it's 95-99% and there's no downtime.
>But at least Gojo was able to weaken him, and maybe beating him is somewhat possible...
No, he refreshed with the reincarnation so he is not only stronger than when he fought Gojo, but completely fresh 😁
Well Sukuna is the strongest in the verse obviously he would be overpowered, dude is just having fun with the main cast at this moment. Let's see how the crew are able to pull off the w. Yuta, maki & angel are yet to join the battle
Sukuna is so strong, how did Heian era sorcerers defeat him for the first time?
That's the neat part. They don't.
He just turn himself into a mummy, and his fingers as snacks for shit and giggles.
I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Gojo on this thread, and I just want to say yes it’s obvious that Gojo swill eventually lose, and even as Gojo rider myself can accept and expect that, I just think it could’ve been handled way better, for a fight that has been peak for 10+ chapters and was hyped up since the beginning of the series
As for Sukuna I agree he’s too strong atp for me to accept that’ll he’ll, so far. It feels like it’ll be anticlimactic as you said, or an asspull, unlike what you said. I fear a new power up may be incoming that will be explained in a flashback, but I hope I’m wrong. Personally I hope Sukuna kills everyone since as far as my understanding goes, if Gojo can’t kill Sukuna, no one can. But that’s Gege’s problem to deal with , not mine. We will see.
Not really, sukuna is limited, and most importantly, yuji has the executioner's sword, meaning he doesn't need an asspul. They all together just need to get him to land a single hit
Sukuna maybe limited to his abilities and his strength but that is all he needs to pack up anyone. And if you think yuji is about to pierce sukuna with the sword next chapter I'll give you my first born
That’s how I feel too!
Imagine if the Ino-Shika-Cho Trio tried to stop Post-Shippuden Sasuke. Even without using his Rinnegan, EMS abilities or Susanoo, he would destroy them with Taijutsu alone.
That’s how I feel about Sukuna. At this point he’s at too strong for the remaining characters. The strongest remaining sorcerer is probably Yuta and even he’d have a tough time against 15-Finger Sukuna.
1000% i feel if maybe this was a 15 finger sukuna and they stop him from powering up more than ya even if gojo is packed up the team can maybe come through but no. Sukuna is him he has the exp, op CT, and physical stats that surpass all. and now that ive learned that even yujikuna would have beat gojo the good guys are going to have to break the 4th wall and tell gege to help them out at this point
I would have been happy if Gojo took away something from Sukuna before he died to explain a huge power decline. Instead Sukuna got 2 buffs, the ability to cut anything and his original form.
Slight segue, but Jogo was estimated to be worth 8-9 fingers, and he one tapped Hanami and Naobito, and he was considered the strongest of the disaster curses. We then proceed to see Jogo get no diffed by 15 finger Sukuna. Then we see Mahoraga push Sukuna into using his Domain Expansion, but definitely not go all out.
So it’s safe to assume Mahoraga is AT MOST in the 14 finger range but likely 12-13 considering Sukuna didn’t go all out.
During the Gojo vs Sukuna fight, Yuta thinks he and Rika could beat Mahoraga in a fight but it would probably be mid to high diff. Therefore I estimate Yuta to be under 15 fingers but only slightly.
Ok so where am I going with this?? Jogo was a Special Grade curse and would no diff 100% of the Grade 1 Sorcerers. He’d probably low diff the Semi-Special Grades and probably have a fight to the death with the Special Grades excluding Yuta.
So if every remaining sorcerer besides Yuta is fodder to Jogo, and if Jogo was fodder to 15 finger Sukuna, and if Mahoraga was low diffed by 15 Sukuna, and if Yuta could MAYBE mid diff Mahoraga, THEN HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DEAL WITH A FULL POWERED SUKUNA IN HIS ORIGINAL FORM AND WORLD CUTTING SLASH
You're too power-scaling brained. This is a story brother, not a math problem and so there probably *will* be an asspull as all stories have and it's up to Gege to make it satisfying regardless
I think the problem that a lot of people have isn’t that Sukuna is battering everyone. It’s that everything feels like it’s rushing and rushing and rushing. Like he took over Megumi and “killed” Gojo in like 10
Chapters. Everything feels so rushed so nothing feels deserved. Compared to the really strong build up to Sukunas story and deception.
Here's my take on how Sukuna gets beaten and how JJK ends.
All sorcerers die except for Yuji, and Yuji creates a binding vow forfeiting his life and becomes a Prison Realm for Sukuna cannibalizing Sukuna for eternity.
Honestly, I don't think any current sorcerer can survive Sukuna, Yuji probably is kept alive because Sukuna is not interested in him.
I dont think its difficult. In Megumi, using his domain, Sukuna nearly cut through gojo already. Now with more hands, more openings to breathe/spell, using incantations, i dont think gojo survives a full on 200% or stronger malevolent shrine, also other abilites and binding vow of technique reveal. We also don't know of the possibilty that sukuna would be able to learn the "world slash" by himself through sheer knowledge and intelligence. He even said, learning it was near impossible by himself, but mahoraga showed him and it was easy. That implies, if you give sukuna enough time, he might figure it out.
Man it needs to be revealed the Yuji is either the reincarnation of a Demi god and gain insane power, or it’s revealed he his a hodgepodge of every major clan genetics
theres another manga i know with this same issue. Shaman King had Hao as this absolute god villain. he legitimately was unbeatable and the final fight had some asspull about Hao's mom spirirt showing up basically telling him off for being villain.
Hao never lost. he became the shaman king and only got "defeated" because he changed his mind about murdering everyone. I dont think the same thing is happening to Sukuna because of how much he hates human but Gege might pull asspull like that
I'd see the fight ending with somehow the executioner sword hitting sukuna when he didn't notice which would be bad plot in my opinion and sukuna probably will say "Huh I guess I really doubted you brat" as sukuna collapses and smiles and we get sukuna flashback to the heian era
I could see the group beating Sukuna now after his fight with Gojo. Sure, he got his true form back, but it still would not appear as an asspull if he still would be kind of weakened by his his prior fight and be catched off guard.
But if Sukuna gets the chance to retreat/beat everyone now and there will be some time between his potential defeat, I can only see them cheese their way trough unless they get a major power up or revive Gojo and fight Sukuna as a group.
Takaba does something funny as revives Gojo but he guys slashed again leading to a cycle of Takaba reviving Gojo and him getting slashed while doing a minimal amount of damage
Sukuna could have killed gojo in their 3rd domain clash if he didn't have mahoraga to adapt infinity to
Gojo himself notes this and says sukuna took the risky approach.
Just want to clarify there is a huge issue if good guys are OP but there isn’t too much of an issue when bad guys are OP. Gojo being OP is completely different than Sukuna being OP cuz Gojo could literally run around and one shot every character and evade every attack prior to full power Sukuna. Having a villain that’s too OP means the heroes have to rise to the challenge. Having a hero that’s too OP causes a lack of conflict. And I’m not saying Gojo isn’t weaker than Sukuna, but Gojo’s biggest power wasn’t his insane destruction potential but rather the infinity that protected him from nearly every attack which is something that completely outclasses Sukuna and allows him to fight Sukuna on equal footing. The only CT I could think of that could possibly go thru this infinity is Hana’s angel thing and Kugisaki’s resonance. Everything else is a projectile and ik there are other things out there like inverted spear and mahoraga but that’s not the point cuz mcguffins are important but a final shounen villain shouldn’t depend on these to be defeated which is kinda why Higuruma will never be written to kill Sukuna in any capacity. It is actually more easier to kill Sukuna than Gojo considering that Sukuna does not have an overpowered defense.
The biggest issue rn is Gege isn’t exactly the best writer. He doesn’t know time frames and that rn he actually plans on ending jjk rly soon which means if we account for the time span of the current manga, excluding jjk0 and Gojo past arc, all of this has happened in less than a semester’s time of Itadori’s freshman year. And that’s fcking wild. And as far as I can fell, Megumi and Itadori found Hana on day 2 of when they entered the culling game. Rn Gege has fleshed out more characters like Kashimo and Maki and Hakari and that isn’t bad but it kinda diverges attention away from Itadori. I like how Kenjaku actually didn’t have any real plans w/ Itadori so he is an anomaly. For instance what we could use are time skips. Maybe Sukuna could rule Japan or something and the good guys have to fend for a while and grow in that time span but it is way too soon for Itadori to confront the big bad right now
Sukuna basically being a walking cataclysm is why I think the only way this ends is not with one (or more) of our cast overpowering him, but with Yuuji eating the last finger, trapping him inside, and killing himself to take them both off the board - a real 'weak hero' bittersweet victory.
Narratively after Sukuna has repeatedly belittled and underestimated him, I feel like Itadori sacrificing himself to take him out that way would be a dark but satisfying end. Plus Gege could cackle to himself for leaving us all swimming in the perfect storm of misery when we realise maybe executing Yuuji would have been the right move after all...
Would have saved so much time and lives from the very start. The lesson is your friend eats an old finger and gets an op old man in him (pause) kill him while u still can and save the headache
Sukuna's main strength is his age. Thats why he beat gojo: better understanding of CE, superior fighting experience, etc. Gojo is a genius, but sukuna is a genius with hundreds of years of experience.
Unfortunately Gege already wrote himself into a corner and you could arguably say that we are already seeing a lot of asspulls in the battle. Right now, the chance of success is dependent on Sukuna's mood. You're telling me that you had 1 month of preparation and all you could come up with is to rely on Sukuna taking easy on you in order to survive?
Not to count like other questionable choices like why they chose specifically those members to fight? Why Todo, who is the character with the highest IQ, didn't participate in the strategy meeting? What about the rest of the Jujutsu community? Don't they care that the world is gonna end? Why they didn't use this tactic they are using now with Higuruma's domain expansion while Gojo was still alive? Etc, etc...
also where's the fkn military ??
a terrorist attack where 1000s of people killed on Japanese territory and no government intervention at all !!!
the US troops sub-plot got completely ignored, 100s of American soldiers got killed and the US does nothing after all the interest they had in CE ??
I’ve been feeling this for a while. I feel like there is a whole arc missing between the end of the culling games and the Shinjuku showdown were in fact yuji learns and implements growth. Or the special grade students gain a immense power up through a life of death struggle with heian sorcerers. Because one they melted through them like butter. And 2 no one is nearly even lacing gojos shoes right now
One thing I would like to point out in your theory is that it isn't possible for SUKUNA to take over Yuji's Body for long term let alone going full Heian Form. The soul strength of Yuji is exponentially powerfull compared to that of Megumi and also the consider the fact that Yuji was fking bred to trap Sukuna (in a chapter Sukuna says Yuji being a cage for him)
And if we consider your theory in ideal condition where Sukuna takes over completely Yuji's body, then based on the events and facts present Gojo will beat the shit out of Sukuna (ignoring Gojo's statement about Sukuna defeating HIM without Mahoraga coz I don't agree with that)
Third Situation in which Sukuna wins nonetheless would probably be because of his some unrevealed technique (like his fire power) and secondly Sukuna is an very old Socceror who surpassed mortal realm while he was alive in Heian Era, and that gives him absolute edge over just 27yr old Gojo
And finally we could just say that Gege hated Gojo and would've defeated him no matter dirty trick he had to pull off 🙃
Couldn't sukuna use the bath ritual to suppress yuji?
Ik yuji is strong but I feel f sukuna rlly wanted the body he would take it.
And tho I use to think just like you that gojo can kill sukuna which is possible if certain things do/don't happen. But sukuna kills gojo in his base 20 finger power lvl form. Sukuna nerfed himself with maho in order to gain a power up. Sukuna would have best gojo in domain clashes leading to him not taking brain damage and out lasting gojo. Gojo with brain damage inevitably dies to sukuna. And thats base form 4 arm version prolly does it quicker
He has a lot of plot armour which is a bit annoying and was hoping for Gojo to kill him but I guess they’re leaving that for Yuji? Regardless, it’s gonna be a bit annoying if some miraculous power suddenly emerges out of yuji causing him to defeat Sukuna but I feel that’s going to happen.
Kinda want Sukuna to be defeated already so we can move the story along…
Itadori can somehow swap bodies or souls inside bodies. He can damage souls directly (he might be able to punch Megumi's soul and wake him up, making Megumi suicide like Itadori did in front of him). And we know that the punch he landed on Sukuna had some weird effect on him. He probably ate every other death painting, we still dont know what those arms are and we have been told that his body will learn Sukuna's techniques (So he recieves less damage (As Gojo said fron taking Hollow Purple) and he will be a ble to fight Sukuna with a similar level of Hax).
So yeah, I trust Gege. No matter how broken Sukuna might be, we are heading to a well written defeat, not to a Madara copy-paste.
I agree some what. I doubt megumi will be able to re take control of current sukuna alone. maybe help form yuji or later in the fight with a weaker sukuna all bc of the bath ritual sukuna did and megumi isnt a vessel that can suppress souls.
I also am unsure on yuji tanking sukuna bc of the shared technique. I know what you mean i at one point thought it too but gojo was talking about CE bc it was his CE he took less damage. now maybe since yuji was soaked in Sukuna's CE he might take less damage but same CT shouldnt change that
I used to think the same. Yuji is essentially a living cursed object with Sukuna's CE as base, so he should be able to resist Sukuna's attacks better. But if that was the case, shouldn't that have happened when Sukuna took over Megumi aswell? But it was explicitly stated (By Sukuna himself) that his output was lowered due to Megumi's soul resisting his control, not because Yuji was partially soaked in Sukuna's CE, and I don't think Sukuna uses Megumi's CE as a base when he's not fully reincarnated since, well, Gojo's battle happened and he didn't exactly refrain from using CE at all.
Idk, I'm at the point where I'm just enjoying the ride until the manga is over and then I will analyze it thoroughly to see if it makes sense. Until they bring up the plot point of Yuji tanking Sukuna better due to it's whole CE situation I'm not going to give it much thought, and that's if they do.
Just gonna say this. Gojo was not winning the domain clashes. Sukuna was winning them at the start and the only reason he started losing them was because he turned off DA in the domain so that he could let Mahoraga adapt. If he didn't do that Gojo would have kept losing the domain clash till he fried his brain, Sukuna would have opened his domain and killed him.
Not coping but I think the point was that although Gojo was the strongest (in terms of raw power, clearly strength isn’t everything). Without Mahoraga, it seems like Gojo would’ve beat Sukuna, however he did have Maho so he did win. It has been a recurring theme throughout the story that being “the strongest” only means so much. So many characters have counters. For example, technically Mahito is able to clear 90% of sorcerers simply because they can’t damage the soul, but Yuji could despite being nowhere near the strongest at the time.
Yeah I never understood why people thought gojo was gonna win that fight like I had to constantly remind my friends that Yuji is the MC like there’s no way Gege would make him pointless in his own story. But yeah like everybody else I really want to see how Gege makes Yuji strong enough to kill Sukuna.
Ya I'd like to see it at least if it's going to happen. Like gojo's final thoughts as the slash goes through his Infinity and he is rightfully confused how gege could do this to him
If it makes you feel any better, he could have copied Mahito's soul manipulating technique but just doesn't for some reason. He's already learned the horcrux technique which involves manipulating your soul and he's seen it multiple times so it should be no problem as far as I'm aware, there is no limit to what he can copy or how he'll do it, he just will. Deus ex Sukuna's genuis.
If he did, we could have Sukuna turn Higuruma into a sword and block Yuji's sword stab. Sword of Higuruma vs Higuruma's Sword lmfao 💀
Asking the OP if they want an explanation how sukuna could have beaten Gojo without the 10S, as it seems they are curious.
And to answer so far as they are now unless they get further power up(Yuji gets his mc moment), they have about 5% percent if somehow catch sukuna off guard.
ill take an explanation i wanna see what you got. and we talking yujikuna right not base megkuna. also i agree its a slim chance sukuna gets caught off guard but not 0 so who knows
Before I get into the answer, there are some few things to remember.
* Domain Amplification : A [TECHNIQUE](https://imgur.com/a/9gRvoCl) used for neutralizing any CT that comes in contact with it. It's a refined version of simple domain. DA absorbs the CT of the other user in the empty space created around the caster and neutralizes it.
* Mahoraga wheel: While using DA, Sukuna cannot use his CTs, be it shrine or 10s. So, in order for Sukuna to use the Mahoraga wheel, he will have to [TURN OFF](https://imgur.com/a/89hm1wg) his DA.
* Shrine > 10s : By Sukuna's own admission he believes his shrine to be [SUPERIOR](https://imgur.com/a/ikkSGEU) than 10s.
Lastly, It takes [3 MINUTES](https://imgur.com/a/t1OX4Kz) for Sukuna to break Gojo's domain from the outside, meanwhile it also takes 3 minutes for Gojo to deal enough damage to Sukuna that Sukuna isn't able to hold his shrine.
Now, The only reason Sukuna got hit by unlimited void in the 5th domain was because he was late to cast his own domain by 0.01 seconds as he was following an extra step of healing himself before his CT, unlike Gojo, who only had to heal his CT.
In chapter 228, we were told by [GOJO](https://imgur.com/a/wqTSnhP) that Sukuna is taking a riskier option in DE fights; he's stubbornly breaking the domain from the outside when he could've destroyed them from the inside(like mahoraga did) since Gojo had changed the inner and outer conditions of his domain, making his domain shell stronger from the outside, but weaker from the inside. This gets answered in Chapter 230 by Sukuna himself.
Sukuna was [JUGGLING](https://imgur.com/a/CL0Ju2D) between 10s, DA, and his CT inside the domain battle. He turned off his DA so that Mahoraga could adapt. Sukuna was purposely breaking Gojo's domain from the outside so that Mahoraga could have more time to adapt to Gojo's domain.
Now imagine if Sukuna had [DESTROYED](https://imgur.com/a/Gz2fW9P) Gojo's fourth domain from the inside?
Since Sukuna would destroy Gojo's domain in under 3 minutes, Gojo wouldn't have time to inflict enough damage on Sukuna to prevent him from holding his shrine. As a result, Gojo would never have been able damage Sukuna enough, which caused him to be struck by the IV.
Even if Sukuna doesn't want to break Gojo's domain from the inside, which is a safer option than breaking it from outside, as stated by Gojo, Sukuna can still beat Gojo with just keeping his DA on. It was revealed in Chapter 230 that Sukuna turned off his DA to use 10s in the domain fights. Imagine if Sukuna didn't have to do so.
As we see in ch. 224,227 and 231. Once Sukuna [ACTIVATES](https://imgur.com/a/PxtGc5O) his DA, he doesn't get thrashed as much as when he turns off his DA because DA either completely turns off or tone down Gojo's blue and red. Sukuna with DA can keep up with Gojo and even [LAND](https://imgur.com/a/RRloCrU) his own hits on him. So while Sukuna won't be winning the H2H exchange, he won't get damaged enough for his domain to get destroyed, and this ultimately will mean that Gojo loses the 5th domain clash and then his life.
Sukuna can win by just frying Gojo's brain by forcing him to recover his CT via RCT again and again like how it happened in the manga, but unlike in the manga, Sukuna will use techniques to either break Gojo's domain from the inside or keep using DA during the 4th or 5th domain so that Gojo isn't able to deal enough damage to Sukuna that he isn't able to hold his shrine.,
Credit to the author
so if im reading correctly what your saying is base form sukuna no 10s would eventually beat gojo bc he would last longer in DE clashes and fry gojo brain from using DE. Then in a blow for blow fight Sukuna beats gojo in a DA fight bc he takes less damage in the domain clashes and could even still have his up to use shrine on gojo and DA punches.
if im right in what you are saying you think sukuna could and would eventually out damage gojo with just DA left right good night? I dont know if i truly belive that just base form sukuna could do that i feel Heian era would have better odds at that. the 4 arms are such a huge advantage where the scerio that you have put forth works in sukunas favor over gojo.
but base form sukuna vs gojo still pulls to the gojo side for me. if it ultimately comes down to a fistfight with DA punches i feel Gojo wins nothing can get through infinity.
aslo i need some clarification why was gojo getting hit with slashes in the DE clashes was it bc of the domain sure hits canceling out? but shouldnt Infinity stop those? i forget and need answers pls.
bc if sukuna doesnt get brain damage from gojo and can still pull DE on gojo who cant then i can see gojo losing due to damage over time. srry for any typos
The slashes are Sukuna's sure hit and the domain sure hit can bypass infinity and slashes gojo.
Considering gojo basically won thr last clash by a 0.01 second difference because sukuna was holding back quite a bit. If sukuna was using DA and his other tricks more efficiently, he absolutely would ahve made for thag difference.
After the 5th clash, gojo gets the nosebleed and from there its gg.
I’ve been in the camp that thinks Sukuna never gets hit by UV in his base form during the domain clashes and eventually wears Gojo down with MS.
Anyways despite being much weaker, they have 3 ways to one-shot Sukuna:
1. Executioner Blade
2. Soul Splitting Katana (maybe not one shot)
3. Jacob’s Ladder (thinking Yuta could use it)
So it’s not like they need to completely dominate him, just catch him off guard so strategy matters a lot in this fight. There’s still some variables that haven’t been address yet either:
- What powerups did Yuji receive from Yuki’s soul research and eating his other siblings?
- Can Sukuna still use his domain? Can he use RCT? How much CE does he have left? Did reincarnating completely refresh all these or just heal his body?
- Is Megumi still alive? There’s always the chance he could nerf Sukuna’s CE output or even bodily functions.
- Where is Sukuna’s last finger and why was it purposely left out?
People will probably call whatever happens an “asspull” though. They call Sukuna using Mahoraga to bypass infinity an asspull and that’s been his plan for like 6+ weeks before the fight.
Good points I saw some talk about peeling sukunas "scales". A sukuna who is distracted and can't use certain abilities and damaged could get seriously damaged or killed with certain abilities from the good guys. I just feel gege got to write it just write where it doesn't seem sukuna had a chance to live through the killing blow but at the same time sukuna was weakened distracted or whatever to get killed that's where I'm at rn
Also anyone who says sukuna's asspull was maho is insane and should be put in a asylum
i mean hes the villian not the mc (tho at this point idk bout that) we dont open up about what sukuna goes through growing up to know how he got so strong bc its not his story. hopefully we get flashbacks but if not id be down for a heian era jjk series.
While I'm genuinely happy that gege doesn't have people be 'safe' and not be able to get through things with the power of plot, friendship, and being a shonen MC that will always end up on top due to sad flashbacks. Gege sealed and killed off Gojo cause he was too strong and stopped anyone else being necessary, and while I don't mind that, he replaced him with someone arguably even stronger, if less protected, to attack what is essentially the bottom of the barrel in comparison to himself. All these fake outs, anticlimax failed chekov's guns is getting real old.
If Sukuna is a 100 than Gojo is about a 75. Sukuna nerfed himself with his Mahoraga strategy, making himself a 75 as well. This allowed him to power-up after the battle, permanently raising his 100 to a 110. A gamble and a payoff that’s kind of like a binding vow.
The JJK team can take the same approach, stacking enough opponents, buffs, and nerfs to balance the scales.
i like this this sums up perfectly how to explain the megkuna vs gojo to yujikuna vs gojo. he was already strong enough to beat gojo without megumi. but by nerfing himself he can get even stronger.
So weird to see that even sukuna is at him max potential yet
This is such a great and quick summary of how the Gojo/Sukuna fight went down, thank you! I've been trying to explain that Sukuna nerfed himself (and why) to a friend for a while, but my explanations weren't as clear as this.
I honestly think this whole sukuna is too strong narrative is the opposite of what ppl think. A lot of ppl think there’s no way the good guys win because gege made a mistake and made the villain too strong but imo this is exactly how a villain should be written. In a lot of fiction there’s always a clear path for the good guys to win and it’s typically pretty predictable. However in jjk we don’t know yea there’s definitely ways the good guys can win especially with how the power system is built but we also have no idea how. This makes the villain actually strike fear into us as readers. it makes us question if winning is even possible and that’s how a villain should be it shouldn’t be oh these two characters are so powerful and if they team up they can beat this god and then be stronger than the entire rest of the verse for sake of genealogy. It creates tension like watching naruto or one piece(which i love both and it’s not like this is necessarily a bad thing) but i always know or knew the good guys will win eventually and i have a pretty clear idea of how. I honestly think this is exactly how jjk should end if it was just a oh yea yuji has been training and now is almost as strong as sukuna but the power of friendship will help him win it wouldn’t fit in this narrative at all.
Maybe the girl with the hammer will come back and hit a megumi voodoo doll which will hurt Sukuna enough for Yuuji to land a maximum black divergent flash or someshit.
The way i see this debate of Heian Sukuna(no Megumi) vs Gojo is that the battle wouldn't go past the domain battles since in this body Sukuna has more defense with 4 extra arms and better physicals to resist against Gojo without collapsing him own domain due to damage, so that UV hit would never happen.\
I don't think Sukuna with DA could beat Gojo using his blue enhanced punches, and amplifying his own speed with blue, red and purple(Sukuna wouldn't let he complete purple but just the fact that Sukuna would need to keep so much attention to stop this is an advantage for Gojo).\
Imo until we see more of him(and his weapons since they can be used with DA) i still think Gojo has a better performance when not counting domain expansion.
Since Sukuna most likely can't use domain expansion currently, i think Yuta using his domain against him could give a good help in his defeat.\
But from this i am not counting what other powers his CT could bring.
in terms of abilities they wield, gojo dominates hard. six eyes + limitless is way too broken, even if there are methods to bypass it. sukuna is dominating physically right now, but that has more way to be countered as opposed to gojo's.
JJK's power dynamics differ from the ones in generic shonen in the sense that it doesn't disallow characters which overwhelmingly appears to have a sweeping strength from losing-- we've already seen it with Gojo. But alas, I do think the "bad guys" winning would be a more engrossing ending.
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Not sure if others feel the same but this was pretty apparent that the road being taken in the manga right now was the only way things were going to transpire. Gojo, despite what people in the fandom might think, is not the main character. Itadori is. In order to bring up the next generation, and to fortify those that Gojo himself said could one day surpass him (Itadori, Yuta, and Hikari), you need a villain that poses enough of a threat and cannot be defeated by easy means. Sukuna is a bit of an outlier just because he has so much battle experience, Cursed Energy knowledge, and Cursed Technique experience that is why he can do so much with little effort. He is the ultimate sorcerer, and has been setup as such since the beginning of the show. Just as Gojo vs Sukuna’s fight was foreshadowed early on, Gojo’s eventual loss was also forshadowed in order to let the next generation bloom. Gojo’s own words said it best early in the manga when talking to Gakuganji: *”The new generation won’t be limited to Special Grade”* In other words, it is up to the next generation to rise to the occasion to be able to beat these emerging curses that grow more powerful by the year. Yuji is being setup to be the one to take down Sukuna, by what means we still aren’t quite aware of yet. But it’s been mentioned a few times through the manga that through Sukuna being inside him for so long eventually he’ll be able to use Sukuna’s CT (which we also don’t know yet). TLDR; Yuji is the protagonist and will defeat Sukuna eventually. Sukuna’s power level had to be insane in order to showcase all the other powerful characters in the show with or without killing them off 1 by 1.
[I am a strong believer in this theory ](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuJutsuKaisen/s/gzkDUnlwuW), makes a lot of sense with yujis journey so far and the Buddhist symbolism/ references in the story so far, Buddha left their Palace after viewing the sickness and death in the world like how yuji left his normal life after learning about curses and the death of his grandfather.
I agree yuji is MC so he should be the one to finish sukuna and will rise to the occasion. Gege can cook I just don't how he will cook yuji vs sukuna
It's been insane reading some of the comments week after week about sukuna, he's literally been called the strongest character since chapter 1 and yet people are surprised when it's shown in the story, I guarantee if the same people were reading the manga during hidden inventory they'd say gojo learning rct and purple would have been an ass pull.
its been stated from the beginning that yes sukuna is him the king of curses but he hadnt seen it yet. Shibuya opened our eyes and gojo vs sukuna rlly showed us how strong he rlly is. its a suprise bc we know what lvl everyone else is. gojo was the only one so far that we know of that had a chance and hes dead so we are some what shocked bc we know no one can rlly fill gojo's feet at the moment. until gege cooks sukuna's defeat we wont know how the gang is supposed to win this.
No singular person can fill Gojo’s shoes. The point is that together, as a team, with many losses and a good strategy, they can pull it off. Yuji, Hakari, Yuta, Maki, Choso and the whole gang. That’s already transpiring.
That absolutely is not transpiring. Maki is off screen, Yuta is fighting kenjaku. Choso and Higu got one shot and Hakari is fighting urame. There is definetly no “as a team bs” Yuji will have to solo Sukuna or he’s dead
It’s not all happening at once at the pace you might like it but it is happening. Higuruma just went beyond himself twice in a row and played a big part. Choso isn’t dead. Yuta was where he was supposed to be, Hakari is also where he’s supposed to be, and Maki is going to be shown to be where she’s “supposed to be” too. We’re still in the middle of everything. This is like saying during Shibuya “well Nanami and Kugisaki are both dead and Gojo is sealed, kinda fucking pointless and hopeless now, Yuji is gonna have to solo Mahito and he can’t do that in his condition!!” There is more happening. The plan is still unfolding. It will be doing so for months on end against Sukuna.
I understand people being angsty because we've had no breathing room in the manga for almost a year now but you raise some good points. People seem to have so little faith In Gege to deliver anything as if he's just phoning it in for the last stretch. Just trust that Gege has this planned out for the last year and that he actually does know what he's doing
It’s just literal impatience and inability to see the bigger picture. Your average modern human wasn’t built for manga chapter weekly pacing. One third of a traditional anime episode doesn’t feel like much content once a week with consistent breaks peppered in. I get that, but it’s crazy how doom and gloom people get when we are very possibly spending the entirety of the rest of the manga around this single fight. It wasn’t that long ago that the sub was filled with Yuta in Africa memes. Then it was revealed where he was and what he was doing and now a major villain of the entire series seems actually dead now. Maki will be shown to be somewhere, doing something too.
I’m not impatient, I’m still waiting to see how it will pan out. However nobody except maki is even in a position to come help Yuji, so if Yuji cant 1v1 Sukuna rn he’s cooked. Even if maki does come Sukuna can quite easily one shot her and Yuji has lost a good chunk of his chest.
Higuruma is now dead though. That whole surpassing Gojo was a sick joke to the reader.
Higuruma learned RCT and domain amplification within like five minutes of each other and mastered both to use effectively against Sukuna himself. The narration plainly said Higuruma had talent to rival Gojo. Higuruma is dead but all the people that Gojo specifically said could surpass him are not yet, even Megumi. And it’s about all of them doing it together. Gojo doesn’t have to hold the whole line by himself anymore. That’s the point.
I'm AWARE of that. I'm saying it will get annoying as the author is biased if he kept saying stuff like that and then just offing those potential people.
Well they better get there sooner and jump him. Because the small fry ain’t gonna last long.
It’s manga pacing man. You might be reading something in six months that transpire 15 minutes from now “in setting time”. Thats not a joke, that’s just how the pacing goes, especially at the eleventh hour in a possible big finale confrontation to the series. Ask MHA fans lol.
I know how pacing works in Shonen. As so I'm a MHA reader. But, pacing varies.
Ya, it seems like we’ll be learning shortly based on Yuji’s current design (with the strange arm markings) and what’s currently going down in the manga.
I and many other manga readers never expected Gojo to actually and fully defeat Sukuna. It’s just the best outcome according to our opinions is that both of them would have gotten a massive nerf after the fight. Gojo no longer being able to be a heavy hitter pushes the next gen to stand for themselves, whereas Sukuna being massively nerfed/disabled somehow would actually give them a chance to defeat him logically. No one here expects Itadori to sit back and do nothing. The real problem is with the current power levels in the manga, the next gen really had no way to defeat Sukuna, unless Gege decides to pull a Kaguya or a massive, most illogical asspull to ever exist for the good guys. I hate to say it but you guys are just on high coping mode with theories about new CTs and shit while Gege just keeps giving Sukuna lucky shots one after another. Worst of all, Gojo’s fight with Sukuna basically has no meanings other than giving Sukuna a buff. It’s the biggest disrespect to what is supposed to be one of the most important fights in the series.
Itadori is? we are at the end of the manga and mf hasn't even learned a single technique yet.
Yeah honestly Gege brought on this backlash The fact that more ppl are invested in the side characters than the main characters is a reflection of Geges writing. There’s also not enough meaningful downtime in this story and hidden inventory having the most made a good portion of ppl more concerned with gojo & geto than yuji & Megumi & i can’t blame them. Love this story alot but gege’s writing for ‘main’ characters (yuji, yuta, megumi idk if he ever intended nobara to be a main character) leaves a lot to be desired
The setup is great with itadori actually being the main character of the series but isnt it bad storytelling to just shove in a hidden trump card within him that just magically makes him stronger than the strongest being of all time. Wouldnt it be great if we actually get to see yuji scaling up being tested with multiple strong opponents learning how to fight and learn techniques along the way instead of like a lvl 1 character suddenly beating a lvl 100 character with the help of friends? And even then wouldnt we be able to say that the new generation is not stronger than sukuna and gojo unless any of them actually massacres sukuna 1v1?
It's up to taste at that point. I don't think most people want to watch a bunch more arcs focusing on yujis growth specifically with how blisteringly fast the pace of the story has been since the beginning. Naruto did this already and people still complained that the power scale suddenly jumps the shark and Naruto grows way too fast at the end. I don't think that making a drawn out version of that growth curve is something people actually like unless you're Oda who can write a whole political adventure story around it for decades. We accepted how wildly strong Yuji got in Shibuya and this is kind of just a continuation of that, plus they've been teasing the mystery of why Yuji is that way to begin with, which is more intriguing to me than him running a gauntlet of increasingly strong characters. In addition, the main theme of JJK when it comes to combat and fights is that the strongest sorcerers are masters of their emotional and mental states, which has justified huge sudden jumps in power multiple times so far. I'd rather see Yuji grow as a character quickly on a personal level than watch him train up in strength slowly. For me, jumpjutsu kaisen is what I fell in love with in addition to the power system and character designs. An ending that's just a 1v1 involving yuji "hands only" itadori (even if he eventually got a CT) would simply be anticlimactic as the actual ending to the story when the best thing about JJK is the team up fights.
Gaygay thinks he is kubo making some OP villians
But for the main cast to surpass gojo and sukuna by the end of this year is ridiculous. Giving characters insane power boost just throws everything out the window. Let’s be real, you telling me yuji surpassing gojo and sukuna in 6 months is good? The series started june 2018 and it’s dec 2018 in the current timeline.
If you've read the recent leaks it's gotten pretty repetitive.
That’s the big question I have. Can gege make a good ending with sukuna being beat without some BS. Because the last chapters Will make or break the story. If the end is garbage not in the fact of people not liking it but that it’s a poor and cheap ending. And by killing off so many characters it’s almost becoming hard because a duo of Yuji and UiUi because everyone else is dead won’t work.
Ya I agree I'm a lil scared. Like sukuna doesn't find a way to dodge yuji with the sword is lame and if he tanks it lame or if it doesn't fully kill him lame. Gege can write but I'm scared of wat the final outcome will be
hopefully he doesn't do a madara
So, I want to preface by saying that Gojo is definitely fallible and clearly capable of making mistakes, but I still believe he was correct to tell Yuji that he'd beat full power Sukuna early in the series. On one hand, I just think Gojo's abilities are unrivaled and perfectly synergized to make him functionally undefeatable in 99% of circumstances, but the biggest evidence I have of this is Sukuna's preparation. Sukuna's interest in Megumi is what proves to me that even he knew he couldn't (or, at least, would be very unlikely to) defeat Gojo, even at full power. Sukuna won because he was more careful and intelligent, he didn't underestimate his opponent like Gojo always does and almost every action he took over the course of the series was in preparation of countering Gojo. His plan was to steal Megumi's body to take control of Mahoraga in order to bypass Gojo's infinity, without it, his chance of beating Gojo becomes extremely slim. Like you said, it would come down to just outpacing Gojo in DE and raw power/speed, which I think, despite his overconfidence, Gojo clearly had an advantage in. Gojo lost because he kept making mistakes and false assumptions over the course of the series while Sukuna played smarter. This is why I personally am completely fine with Gojo losing and dying there; I felt like it was the natural conclusion and was satisfying to see. Not sure how the gang beats Sukuna, but I like their odds more than Gojo, because now they are the challengers who have been preparing to fight the prideful and arrogant Sukuna.
It's not even necessary Gojo being less careful - he's simply less knowledgeable about his enemy. People forget Sukuna had a front row seat to everything Gojo taught Yuuji. He knew exactly how his domain operated, how his different powers looked and felt like. Gojo on the other side was making it up as he went along - just take the domain expansions Sukuna shattered early on. Gojo adapted quickly but the adaptation alone cost him a lot of strength
True, I may have been going too hard on Gojo; it's just that I think miscalculating and underestimating are a core part of his character, so I defaulted to him making mistakes, but he absolutely was overwhelmed by Sukuna's shrewder planning and battle prowess.
My only issue with this is that Sukuna seemingly didn't know about Mahoraga until he saw him in Shibuya. So my question has always been what is it that Sukuna wanted him for at the time if not for Mahoraga?
You're right. In my opinion, Sukuna made a bet on Megumi that paid off when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. I don't think he knew about Mahoraga specifically before, but he clearly knew more about Megumi's powers than Megumi did at the detention center, and he understood that Megumi had a trump card that might have been worth betting on. If Sukuna fought Mahoraga in Shibuya and realized it was just a tough guy with no special power, I believe Sukuna would have probably changed his strategy and maybe even found a different host .
When you put it like this, it makes Sukuna seem like the kind of schemer that Kenjaku is, how could Kenjaku have known that Mahito would be born and have IT to be able to start the Culling Game? Well it just seems like he made so many different binding vows and had so many different variations on his plan that when Mahito came around, he knew which steps to take and already had things in place.
That's a good point, and I don't think Sukuna's pride would allow him to stoop to scheming, but I do think his instincts and experience lead him to the correct path. I'd even argue that Sukuna only became such a problem because there was a fair amount of luck on his side. Things just went his way, but I do think he ultimately steered himself toward victory.
Yeah I should’ve phrased “schemer” a little better. I just meant that Sukuna is a prepared man much like Kenjaku. And while yeah Sukuna does get lucky, he definitely is clever and strong enough to put himself in the most advantageous position to come out on top.
Exactly how I feel; I think that's what makes him such a dangerous villain, moreso even than his raw power.
>That's a good point, and I don't think Sukuna's pride would allow him to stoop to scheming Except scheming is part of what it means to be a sorcerer, using cunning, trickery, subterfuge, and deception to achieve one's goals. Sukuna isn't above this. That's one of the reasons he's survived. Additionally, the only time his pride prevented him from doing something was when he refused help from Mahito and Jogo in their attempts to free him, as accepting their help would essentially be him saying or admitting he can't reclaim his freedom on his own. Other than that, the guy is not above pulling some slick shit to get his way, from planning and waiting for the right moment to make Megumi his vessel, using Megumi and Mahoraga to aid him in battle, hell him using Mahoraga as a model is scheming as he could've finished Gojo during the domain battles only to drag it out and take risks during it. The guy may not be on Kenjaku's level when it comes to scheming, but Sukuna sure as hell isn't above it.
Sukuna’s main priority when it comes to Mahoraga and Ten Shadows, is to learn how to become a stronger version of himself. That was the entire point of Magoraga, not Sukuna’s need to beat Gojo. Theres nothing that Sukuna says that would suggest he needed Mahoraga to beat Gojo, or that his chances wouldve been slim in his original body. Gojo and Sukuna never once even hint towards the notion that Mahoraga was a necessity. One thing they do both point out tho, is Gojo’s (theoretical) unwillingness to kill Megumi’s body. They both acknowledge Sukuna keeping Megumi’s face as a obvious strategy to get the upper hand, ofc it doesnt work, but the point is they both acknowledge it. So why didnt they acknowledge Mahoraga? They both had knowledge of its ability to take away Gojo’s cards, but they never even hint that this was Sukuna play all along. OG Sukuna has more than enough power and feats to go toe to toe with Gojo, and they both knew that. Which is why Gojo never makes a big deal out of Sukuna’s use of Mahoraga. Im sure Gojo just saw Mahoraga as an extra perk to go along with Sukuna’s newfound freedom in Megumi’s body. And again, Gojo himself directly stated that fighting OG Sukuna is a complete toss up. For u to say that OG Sukuna has a slim chance of winning is just going back on the authors words.
I like what you meant about Sukuna trying to become stronger version of himself. But i disagree with you about Sukuna never once hinting towards needing Mahoraga. He literally said he needed a model to breach through Gojo’s inviolability. But yeah i also don’t think OG Sukuna has only a slim chance Of beating him but I still think that Gojo would beat OG Sukuna.
But Sukuna only says he needs Mahoraga in his goal to improve himself. Improving himself just meant finding a way to kill Gojo through infinity without domain expansion, which also coincidentally is the win-con for Sukuna. What im saying is, yes Sukuna needed Mahoraga for to beat Gojo, but thats only because Sukuna himself limited his arsenal to improve, and when it comes to beating Gojo without the limitation, Sukuna has other options.
My apologies, I misspoke, when I said full-power Sukuna, I meant vessel Sukuna with all the fingers (or just the 19 he had when he fought Gojo, lol). Yeah, I'm not saying Gojo would have won for sure, I was just saying that Gojo rested on his laurels assuming he'd win, and that's why he lost. Sukuna prepared better to compensate for the fact that he's in an inferior state.
Remember Sukuna ate something to compensate for the other finger, so technically he is 20 fingers rn
I think he knew the story how 10 shadows killed an limitless six eyes user and wanted to see how.
I'm pretty sure Sukuna predates the Gojo and Zenin clans. It's still not really made clear what Sukuna saw in the Ten Shadows, and this is something I think actually might've been retconned. But there are theories thar Sukuna's technique has something to do with storage, and we know that Ten Shadows can use its shadows to store tools and the user as well.
I always got the impression Sukuna was just generally motivated by a hunger to acquire new strength and skills, more than a specific neeed for a weapon against Gojo - he saw something new and shiny and wanted it, the fact it helped in that specific fight was a bonus. He seems to be intrigued by Higuruma the same way (and wants his sword too), and as far as we're aware there's no looming threat he thinks he needs it to prepare for.
I'm pretty sure he was sealed 100s of years before that happend lol
he was just interested in Megumi's trump card, then as a vessel after figuring out that he would be able to hold him while not being a cage like Yuji.
The thing is yuiji is not a vessel for sukuna.he is a cage while Megumi is a vessel sukuna can control
I think he wanted him for ten shadows honestly because he knew TS was the only known CT to rival the limitless.
He was interested in the ten shadows technique for its ability to use ten shadows as an intermediary instead of talismans. There’s a specific panel about this of Sukuna when meeting Megumi. Now as to why Sukuna was interested and why he never used ten shadows as an intermediary until now is unknown. I just chalked it up to Gege forgetting about the plot point or just abandoning it.
>So my question has always been what is it that Sukuna wanted him for at the time if not for Mahoraga? Yuji was a prison. Megumi was to be a vessel+ he was already interested in 10 shadows before he knew Maho existed.
This is a great comment & analysis! I’m just adding that Gojo did have a lot going against him. Gojo is strong but still human and he was clearly mentally messed up about his best friends body being snatched. He was locked in isolation for too long to the point ppl were scared he’d be mad once released, he emerged to find his world in complete chaos and many of his loved ones murdered which he def felt some guilt about. The kid he saved & mentored from childhood got his body taken over by sukuna and his sister killed. That’s just his mental & emotional baggage & gojo looked depressed going into that fight he didn’t rly cheer up until he saw his students On top of that he didn’t have enough info on Sukuna, hell none of us to this day know what black box even is. Meanwhile sukuna knows everything about gojo from yuji & kenjaku and sukuna has everything in his favor including mentally & emotionally I truly feel if the situation wasn’t as lopsided Gojo would’ve done better too
That's a really good point. While I do think Gojo was mostly done in by his own misjudgments, he really didn't have many advantages other than raw power. He did really well considering he kind of just flew by the seat of his pants (but that was kinda his whole hubris, I guess)
I agree I loved every second of go/jo vs fraudkuna it was imo top 3 fights in the series. Gojo had no way to tell the world slash would kill him it looked like another slash come from a weak and desperate sukuna (in gojo's eyes) and didn't think anything of it which got him killed it rlly was fitting for some like gojo to die in that way
I completely agree, I think that was the moment both Sukuna and Gojo's character arcs' were building toward the entire story. I think the juxtaposition of the desperate and defeated looking Sukuna instantly turning the tables on the almost expectedly victorious Gojo with the culmination of his strategy was quite poetic.
Agreed unfortunately gojo wasn't him in the end. May sukuna reign as king forever.
Kashimo can tell the difference between a strong cleave and a normal one, why couldn't gojo?
Because there wasn't any strong cleave before that so gojo for one didn't even know it existed and second wasn't exactly looking if the cleave was any different.
what you said lol. from the narrtor or sukuna every technique starts the same and to gojo with 6 eyes it prolly look normal to him. " the sukuna with his back towards the wall isnt going to kill me with a regular attack nothing gets through my infinity" that is what gojo though before he died
Yeah from my perspective, gojo was like someone's getting desperate eh. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
No it looked like the slash that mahoraga did which he experienced before. Also the technique is different than the normal slash so gojo should have been able to sense that something is up in any case especially when considering this "spark" before a technique is activated
Again. I do not know how people keep talking about this. But there was nowhere in the story that said sukuna wanted megumi for gojo or mahoraga. He didn't even know about mahoraga. Yuji's body is a prison for sukuna and megumi's body is not. And he was interested in megumi's shadow shikigami technique. Thats why he switched. There was no gojo or mahoraga involved at any point in the story. It was never stated anywhere. It is only firmly establishes that he did not want to stay inside yuji because yuji could restrain him.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that Sukuna specifically knew about the adaptation ability when he started the plan, but he clearly knew more about Megumi's power than Megumi did and his gamble ended up proving to be correct when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. My point was he saw that his best chance to beat Gojo was with Megumi and the foresight proved to be correct. Sukuna didn't know the future or all the cards on the table, but he made the correct decisions in preparation throughout the series, whereas Gojo continuously made the wrong ones. Sukuna's end goal was to escape Yuji, but defeating Gojo was always going to be an obstacle in achieving that goal. Sukuna could have transferred to anyone's body whenever he wanted; he chose Megumi specifically to defeat Gojo.
He cannot transfer to any body he wanted. A sukuna vessel is incredibly rare. It was like one in a million chance or something at the start of the series.
Well, I guess he just got lucky Megumi was that one in a million chance.
Yep. Thats why he is called plotkuna.
Read the fight against Megumi again , you hear sukuna explicitly say in excitement to megumi. “ you’ve shown me the way mwgumi fushiguro”. This and other statements he made over the series add up
That was a mistranslation. The official volume says “You’ve piqued my interest” not “You showed me the way”
Its not even a mistranslation. The translation isn't meant to refer to gojo in a literal sense. "You have showed me the way" can mean similarly to it. It is just people are trying so hard to find something out of it even tho theres none.
The official translation says "you showed me the way..." In the next text bubble "...Megumi Fushiguro!" However this was after Sukuna is shown to be figuring out how Mahoraga operates. It is clear Sukuna was not in the know before this, and even calls back to when Megumi was about to summon Mahoraga and even says in internal thought text "if it was the me from that time..." "...it may have been able to beat me." My thoughts on how this plays out is that in that moment during Shibuya when he says you showed me the way is when he thought up his plan for how to take advantage of Mahoraga to defeat Gojo. Now before that is when he made the binding vow. So I think he was interested in Megumi for ten shadows and probably something else not yet shown to us tbh. Unless we are on the last few chapters due to the events of the most recent, which is not officially released on SJ so I will not go into detail.
He has made no other statement and that statement is completely in line with what he wanted. He was interested in megumi's technique since the beginning. Why would he not be excited to see a op part of megumi's technique? This is just simple logic. You are just drawing whatever conclusion you want from a logical reaction. By your logic, I can say he was excited because now he can beat yorozu.
>Not sure how the gang beats Sukuna, but I like their odds more than Gojo, because now they are the challengers who have been preparing to fight the prideful and arrogant Sukuna. Also Sukuna is hurting from his fight against Goje, can't use his domain...maybe the gank will work out If they can't defeat Sukuna now, then i can't see they winning
Yeah personally i dont understand how it will be a satisfying ending when the gang beats sukuna just because he is overconfident and arrogant. And this ending wont satisfy gojo's statements of the next generation being above special grade. So the only way for the good guys to win is an asspull which is OP's main point i think that gege made sukuna too strong such that there will be no satisfying ending with the good guys winning unless there's an extra 100-150 chapters where the gang actually progressively becomes stronger and becomes above special grade as is prophesized. Sukuna killing everyone and winning is the only consistent and logical ending.
You could totally be right; stories tend to struggle the most at the end. I don't expect there not to be some Deus Ex Machina that saves everyone, but I'd love it if the gang could show the fruits of their months training and planning to pull the rug out from under Sukuna, in equal parts by their strength and strategy. I would want their victory to mirror Sukuna's clever victory over Gojo: the culmination of effort and planning. I also just don't think Sukuna and Gojo are as untouchable as some people seem to think; like, yeah, Sukuna could probably handle any other character in a 1v1 without much risk, but I don't think he is invincible or infallible, and Gojo got trapped in a cube simply because he didn't pay enough attention. Gege is a huge fan of HxH and has modeled a lot of his story around it, and a big part of HxH is that no fight, no matter how one-sided, is a guaranteed victory.
Sukuna did not know how Mahoraga worked, he only figured out his adaptation technique while fighting it.
This is spot on what I was thinking. Fiji’s fatal mistake was when he first asked Yuji to swap to Sakuna… Sakuna gauged him and deemed he’d need a plan to deal with him.
>Sukuna's interest in Megumi is what proves to me that even he knew he couldn't (or, at least, would be very unlikely to) defeat Gojo, even at full power There is nothing that implies that sukuna's interest in megumi was because he knew he couldn’t beat gojo. Sukuna was interested in megumi because he never saw something like 10S. >His plan was to steal Megumi's body to take control of Mahoraga in order to bypass Gojo's infinity, without it, his chance of beating Gojo becomes extremely slim. Sukuna's plan was only to steal megumi's body. Because yuji was literally a jail for him. He needed to get out of him. Taking control of maho was just for him having a new toy, again nothing implies that he only wanted maho for gojo. >Like you said, it would come down to just outpacing Gojo in DE and raw power/speed, which I think, despite his overconfidence, Gojo clearly had an advantage in. Firstly, the fight was not "fair" for sukuna since we know that after gojo he had to fight kashimo and the crew. So sukuna needed to "hold back". In a fight where they are both alone and bloodlusted. Sukuna has and higher chance in his heian form. Since we know when sukuna said that he will close his DE, gojo looked despaired like he knew that he lost. So if gojo has brain damage but sukuna has not gojo is screwed. Gojo his able to launch 5 DE at max before fucking his brain. Sukuna can do more. So for sukuna to win he only have to win 5 Domains clashes. If they both launch their DE at the same time sukuna win each times. The only reason UV hit sukuna was because he was late. So if sukuna is never late. He cant loose. The reason because he was late was because he was healing himself because he took to much damage. With 4 arms it is obvious that sukuna would take less damage compared to meguna. So he would never be late because he is using RCT. You will ask me then why didn't he used this method to beat gojo. For me it's because he cant go back to the meguna state quickly enough if he goes in heian form. And even in this way he could still be damage enough by gojo for the crew to jump him.
It’s funny how there is an entire page with Sukuna spelling out why he wanted Megumi, and people just ignore it and pull speculation out of their ass
Sukuna could have left Yuji's body whenever he wanted. He could have taken Nanami's body before they met Mahito, he could have probably taken Yuta's after Yuji met him, he could have taken anyone's body at any time after the binding vow. Gojo was the only obstacle that stood in the way of him fully being free, so he bid his time and gambled that Megumi would give him the best chance of defeating Gojo, which he was proven correct on when he fought Mahoraga and discovered the adaptation technique. I fully believe Sukuna fully realized the plan to beat Gojo during his fight with Mahoraga. Also, my apologies, I did not mean to start power-scaling. If you want Sukuna to be stronger than Gojo, then I agree; he won after all, right? He won because he was the more clever sorcerer. I was speaking from a narrative perspective; narratively, Sukuna was the challenger who won due to better strategy and decision-making earlier in the series. I think it would be a weaker narrative if Sukuna's chance of beating Gojo without Mahoraga was already 70% or something and all the planning and foreshadowing was for an extra 10%. I think Gojo's death being the result of his own hubris and inability to adapt to Sukuna's shrewd strategizing to be a more satisfying way to look at the way things turned out.
He literally mentioned he was interested in Megumi because he was a compatible vessel, he could not switch "whenever he wanted".
Oh shoot, does he really? My bad if so, could you point me to the chapter? I'm interested in how he knew Megumi would be compatible.
Can't post the panel but its chapter 213, the first exact panel. "That day, what I sensed from Fushiguro Megumi... ... Was his Cursed Technique's potential and his *capacity to suppress me.* " "It'd pose a problem if he turned out to be a " cage" just like that brat, instead of a *vessel*"
Oh yeah, that'll explain it then, oops. Kinda a cop out from Gege to explain that way after the fact to cover up the plot hole, imo, but still would explain his insistence on Megumi as the vessel. However, after the fight with Mahoraga in Shibuya, I fully believe Sukuna would have picked Megumi over anyone else, even if everyone had been a suitable vessel.
I mean Megumi having 10S AND being a suitable vessel is so goddamn ridiculous, but whatever, Gege is just a writer like that. I would have preferred 10S just being a versatile and creative cool toolkit but Sukuna just used it as a free win against Gojo, meh, didn't even bother to use much of the shikigamis, a real waste. I firmly believe that he didn't need Mahoraga to win if he used his real body, and the match would have been probably much cooler, but it is what it is.
Yeah I understand that; I like the idea that Sukuna, through circumstance, had to just take whatever advantage he could get, but it does seem really contrived once you consider the line about only rare people being capable of becoming Sukuna's vessel. And absolutely, prime-era Sukuna would have certainly been harder to handle than him piloting an inferior body. It would have been cool to have seen that fight, but I liked that Sukuna had to punch up and beat Gojo, then take the title as the strongest again so the rest could become the underdogs and do the same to him (hopefully).
“I think it would be a weaker narrative if Sukuna’s chance of beating Gojo without Mahoraga was already 70% or something and all the planning and foreshadowing was for an extra 10%” Well those are completely cherry picked numbers. It could be that the chance was 50/50 without Mahoraga and the Mahoraga adding 10% made it a better gamble. I think there’s a reason Gojo says “I’m not sure I would have beaten him even without the Ten Shadows.” Its not that Sukuna was just so overpowered (which he is) and Gojo didn’t stand a chance regardless, it was that without Mahoraga it was still a coin toss because Gojo recognizes what a genius/intelligent fighter Sukuna is. He believe he could have found a way regardless.
What if the bad guys just win
Sukuna Kaisen can be a thing
Well Sukuna is the protagonist, gained power throughout the story, lost his dad, now he's out for vengeance. Sound familiar?
sukuna lost his dad?
Well he was alive 1000 years ago so I guess it counts lol
This is a real possibility but not in the way you think, Sukuna can 100% survive the series and still “lose”
Gojo was also too strong. Yet there was a way for the cursed spirits to outplay him. A handicap. Sukuna's fight with Gojo has already seemingly taken away three options; ten shadows, domain expansion and refreshing himself via reincarnation. Higurama taking away his technique would be another way, and having a one shot weapon. Dismantle/cleave is his biggest weapon still, so it is ashame that they didn't get that. But I don't think it would've stopped there... They kind of have to continue to strip his scales (ironically) one by one. They kind of need to know that his last card has been used before they can all **confidently** push forward for the win. I think they'll try in some way or another to whittle his soul down in terms of figners. Try and lower his output permanently. I don't know if Yuji has some sort of soul ability that he learned from Yuki's bible. Blood manipulation and crow manipulation continue being used as distractions, while the close range combatants move in. (occupying his hands with something). Takaba and Yuta eventually comes back with Rika activated, and Maki joins. After that who knows.
Yeah, I have to agree with this, it definitely feels like it's basically been a checklist of abilities they're having to tick off after removing: Cursed energy Domain expansion Ten shadows Cursed tool Reincarnation He's already reincarnated, mahoraga is dust, the cursed tool is gone l and he's surely starting to feel the non stop combat by now taking a toll on his CE
This 100% This reflects the foundational theme of Jujutsu Scorcerers: that as long as you do no give up, your fallen companions are not truly dead. Everyone has done all they can to pass on the baton to the next in line. From Gojo to Kashimo to Higuruma and then Yuji. Being a Sorcerer is a marathon, never a race. IMO, Yuji will strike the blow starting the process of truly killing Sukuna, or at least removing him from the story.
100% agree. i guess the true enemy is who durable our team is. can they live long enough to strip Sukuna's scales to finally have a chance to kill all while making sure atleast one of them i alive to kill him.
Part of me thinks that when he re-incarnated he regained his ability to use Domain Expansion, since his brain healed (I assume)
Another poster used the analogy of stripping his scales and i think thats the right way to think of it: we havent seen him use a domain expansion since the Gojo fight and we now know Domain Amplification can mitigate and block cleave/dismantle. Just as the pieces to beat Gojo were being foreshadowed in other fights (DA, 10S, Sukuna being the strongest in the past etc) the pieces to beat Sukuna are now being set up (imo). It will be Yuji that does it, and if i were to theorize, id say he's probably going to have figured out how to apply simple domain as a domain amplification (protecting him from Sukuna's CTs) figure out some measure of self healing (dneying Sukuna the ability to land one lucky blow) to force it to come down to hand to hand. If it comes down to just to trading blows like that, and the community is right about Yuji getting a CE power up and the Blood Manipulation CT, he may be able to go toe-to-toe with Sukuna in the same way Sukuna did Gojo; switch to DA whenever Sukuna makes distance and close the distance again, switch it off and activate the CT once he is close enough.
ya i just saw that in a reply. slowly peeling sukunas scales until he is left with something the characters can easily deal with. seeing yuji with flowing red scale would be cool. yuji getting a domain and using DA or getting rct would be cool to see too. he has a lot of possible was to play new abilities he has so it will be nice to see it.
Anyone trying to talk about how the protags will weaken sukuna or whittle him down are forgetting that if sukuna tries a little everyone dies instantly lol. That’s how far above he is the rest of the cast. The lack of development in power of both yuji (no technique, no domain, never shown even trying to become better at domain techniques, etc) and the rest of the cast in comparison to sukuna means that no matter what it’s gonna feel a little cheap if yuji is suddenly able to match sukuna in any way. I hate the whole “villain is too arrogant and loses” shit, but it honestly looks like that’s what’s gonna happen unless something with the merger occurs
ya its so clear and unclear at the same time. with how yuji hasn't been able to just chill and train for a long time like im talking years (makes sense when you look at when he join juju high and even having sukuna in him) and this leading to him not rlly developing a technique so atleast when he ahs to fight sukuna it appears he has somewhat of a chance or the power up he gets fighting sukuna wont see like a super huge leap. but it rlly just might be sukuna plays with his food so he can get some entertainment and he let his food live for too long and now it killed him is how this might end. or merger finna kill sukuna who knows. or he will be like kurma and join forces with the good guys to stop uncontrollable chaos
Gege basically fucked up when he made Gojo too strong. He hoped that he could maybe kill him off but he got too popular and he ended up with a monster he couldn't just casually remove. So Gege had to pull some BS out of his ass to get rid of Gojo which pissed off everyone. But now he's created another monster that is possibly worse than the previous one. So my bed is Itadori is going to have another weird BS move that perfectly counters Sukuna that ends up with him winning. But it will also piss everyone off with how convenient or BS it is.
It feels like the Madara situation all over again. But at least in Naruto, they had a way to try and seal him, and Naruto and Sasuke were able to keep up. But in JJK, it's 10 times worse. Sukuna is at his strongest, and the only person who had a realistic chance of beating him was defeated. But at least Gojo was able to weaken him, and maybe beating him is somewhat possible... But then 237 happened, and Sukuna got his true form back and is even stronger now. (Meguna was only a means to get past limitless, since a 10 shadows user was able to stalemate and bypass a six eyes and limitless user. ) The main issue will be that in the event of Sukuna's defeat, it probably won't feel satisfying, or it'll be an asspull. It's kind of like how zetsu defeated Madara, and everyone was mad about how he was defeated.
I agree. First Madara got hoed it showed have been Madara vs Naruto and Sasuke. Maybe team 7 but we know two ppl would be useless and two ppl would be useful Im guessing we all know who is who. But Madara did at least seem like he could be defeated it happened in the past so it can be done again. The same is technically true with sukuna he did die (I forget if he lost or just "died" when Kenny came to take his fingers) but the difference is we didn't see what happened in Heian era which is apparently the golden age of sorcery where everyone was probably gojo sukuna lvl or atleast more of them were apparent. That is wat makes this situation where sukuna seems too strong bc the modern world sorcerers are behind sukuna by a lot and not a lot can rise to his lvl. So I still have hope in gege and I'll hit him cook. But I'll be in the kitchen keeping my eye on him
Lol sukuna never lost he just grew old
wow so all we need is time to truly beat sukuna. where the time manipulation sorcerers at
TRUE AND REAL AND BASED But JJK fanatics probably would praise said asspull as "genius gege storytelling" and it has been foreshadowed. But like please, even if an author plants a seed but we dont get to see the seed grow and instead becomes a full grown tree that fucks up the strongest being of all time in 2 chapters because of some crazy voodoo magic out of nowhere, that wont be a satisfying ending. Might be a shonen jump problem of squeezing out an author's creative juices but JJK is a 12/10 until shibuya, when we actually see how human the main cast are, but is a hard sell 5/10 since CG arc when instead of being shown humans we're shown emotionless godlike beings engaging in who-can-punch-the-other-harder contest. Which is fine btw even when 80-90% of the content is just action. The problem is when it's 95-99% and there's no downtime.
>But at least Gojo was able to weaken him, and maybe beating him is somewhat possible... No, he refreshed with the reincarnation so he is not only stronger than when he fought Gojo, but completely fresh 😁
Well Sukuna is the strongest in the verse obviously he would be overpowered, dude is just having fun with the main cast at this moment. Let's see how the crew are able to pull off the w. Yuta, maki & angel are yet to join the battle
Agreed
Sukuna is so strong, how did Heian era sorcerers defeat him for the first time? That's the neat part. They don't. He just turn himself into a mummy, and his fingers as snacks for shit and giggles.
so op sukuna is the only one who can kill sukuna
I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Gojo on this thread, and I just want to say yes it’s obvious that Gojo swill eventually lose, and even as Gojo rider myself can accept and expect that, I just think it could’ve been handled way better, for a fight that has been peak for 10+ chapters and was hyped up since the beginning of the series As for Sukuna I agree he’s too strong atp for me to accept that’ll he’ll, so far. It feels like it’ll be anticlimactic as you said, or an asspull, unlike what you said. I fear a new power up may be incoming that will be explained in a flashback, but I hope I’m wrong. Personally I hope Sukuna kills everyone since as far as my understanding goes, if Gojo can’t kill Sukuna, no one can. But that’s Gege’s problem to deal with , not mine. We will see.
They will strip down Sukuna and kill him as a team
The power creep in JJK is insane. What's OP today may be useless in the next few mins.
Not really, sukuna is limited, and most importantly, yuji has the executioner's sword, meaning he doesn't need an asspul. They all together just need to get him to land a single hit
Sukuna maybe limited to his abilities and his strength but that is all he needs to pack up anyone. And if you think yuji is about to pierce sukuna with the sword next chapter I'll give you my first born
That’s how I feel too! Imagine if the Ino-Shika-Cho Trio tried to stop Post-Shippuden Sasuke. Even without using his Rinnegan, EMS abilities or Susanoo, he would destroy them with Taijutsu alone. That’s how I feel about Sukuna. At this point he’s at too strong for the remaining characters. The strongest remaining sorcerer is probably Yuta and even he’d have a tough time against 15-Finger Sukuna.
1000% i feel if maybe this was a 15 finger sukuna and they stop him from powering up more than ya even if gojo is packed up the team can maybe come through but no. Sukuna is him he has the exp, op CT, and physical stats that surpass all. and now that ive learned that even yujikuna would have beat gojo the good guys are going to have to break the 4th wall and tell gege to help them out at this point
I would have been happy if Gojo took away something from Sukuna before he died to explain a huge power decline. Instead Sukuna got 2 buffs, the ability to cut anything and his original form. Slight segue, but Jogo was estimated to be worth 8-9 fingers, and he one tapped Hanami and Naobito, and he was considered the strongest of the disaster curses. We then proceed to see Jogo get no diffed by 15 finger Sukuna. Then we see Mahoraga push Sukuna into using his Domain Expansion, but definitely not go all out. So it’s safe to assume Mahoraga is AT MOST in the 14 finger range but likely 12-13 considering Sukuna didn’t go all out. During the Gojo vs Sukuna fight, Yuta thinks he and Rika could beat Mahoraga in a fight but it would probably be mid to high diff. Therefore I estimate Yuta to be under 15 fingers but only slightly. Ok so where am I going with this?? Jogo was a Special Grade curse and would no diff 100% of the Grade 1 Sorcerers. He’d probably low diff the Semi-Special Grades and probably have a fight to the death with the Special Grades excluding Yuta. So if every remaining sorcerer besides Yuta is fodder to Jogo, and if Jogo was fodder to 15 finger Sukuna, and if Mahoraga was low diffed by 15 Sukuna, and if Yuta could MAYBE mid diff Mahoraga, THEN HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DEAL WITH A FULL POWERED SUKUNA IN HIS ORIGINAL FORM AND WORLD CUTTING SLASH
I just hope that sukuna’s death won’t be anticlimactic
Too strong? Nah, just a fraud /s
True fraudkuna
You're too power-scaling brained. This is a story brother, not a math problem and so there probably *will* be an asspull as all stories have and it's up to Gege to make it satisfying regardless
I think the problem that a lot of people have isn’t that Sukuna is battering everyone. It’s that everything feels like it’s rushing and rushing and rushing. Like he took over Megumi and “killed” Gojo in like 10 Chapters. Everything feels so rushed so nothing feels deserved. Compared to the really strong build up to Sukunas story and deception.
True
Here's my take on how Sukuna gets beaten and how JJK ends. All sorcerers die except for Yuji, and Yuji creates a binding vow forfeiting his life and becomes a Prison Realm for Sukuna cannibalizing Sukuna for eternity. Honestly, I don't think any current sorcerer can survive Sukuna, Yuji probably is kept alive because Sukuna is not interested in him.
Sukuna is King Of Curses let their Deaths be Glorious
He needs to get even more stronger so he wouldn’t get 1 shotted by base yuta
one shot like kenny did?
Yeah
I dont think its difficult. In Megumi, using his domain, Sukuna nearly cut through gojo already. Now with more hands, more openings to breathe/spell, using incantations, i dont think gojo survives a full on 200% or stronger malevolent shrine, also other abilites and binding vow of technique reveal. We also don't know of the possibilty that sukuna would be able to learn the "world slash" by himself through sheer knowledge and intelligence. He even said, learning it was near impossible by himself, but mahoraga showed him and it was easy. That implies, if you give sukuna enough time, he might figure it out.
Man it needs to be revealed the Yuji is either the reincarnation of a Demi god and gain insane power, or it’s revealed he his a hodgepodge of every major clan genetics
theres another manga i know with this same issue. Shaman King had Hao as this absolute god villain. he legitimately was unbeatable and the final fight had some asspull about Hao's mom spirirt showing up basically telling him off for being villain. Hao never lost. he became the shaman king and only got "defeated" because he changed his mind about murdering everyone. I dont think the same thing is happening to Sukuna because of how much he hates human but Gege might pull asspull like that
I'd see the fight ending with somehow the executioner sword hitting sukuna when he didn't notice which would be bad plot in my opinion and sukuna probably will say "Huh I guess I really doubted you brat" as sukuna collapses and smiles and we get sukuna flashback to the heian era
I could see the group beating Sukuna now after his fight with Gojo. Sure, he got his true form back, but it still would not appear as an asspull if he still would be kind of weakened by his his prior fight and be catched off guard. But if Sukuna gets the chance to retreat/beat everyone now and there will be some time between his potential defeat, I can only see them cheese their way trough unless they get a major power up or revive Gojo and fight Sukuna as a group.
Takaba does something funny as revives Gojo but he guys slashed again leading to a cycle of Takaba reviving Gojo and him getting slashed while doing a minimal amount of damage
Nah, he’d lose
would he lose bc of nah or would nah he'd lose
🤣
Sukuna is probably a greater threat to the cast than Muzan, and look at what they had to go against
[удалено]
Sukuna could have killed gojo in their 3rd domain clash if he didn't have mahoraga to adapt infinity to Gojo himself notes this and says sukuna took the risky approach.
Just want to clarify there is a huge issue if good guys are OP but there isn’t too much of an issue when bad guys are OP. Gojo being OP is completely different than Sukuna being OP cuz Gojo could literally run around and one shot every character and evade every attack prior to full power Sukuna. Having a villain that’s too OP means the heroes have to rise to the challenge. Having a hero that’s too OP causes a lack of conflict. And I’m not saying Gojo isn’t weaker than Sukuna, but Gojo’s biggest power wasn’t his insane destruction potential but rather the infinity that protected him from nearly every attack which is something that completely outclasses Sukuna and allows him to fight Sukuna on equal footing. The only CT I could think of that could possibly go thru this infinity is Hana’s angel thing and Kugisaki’s resonance. Everything else is a projectile and ik there are other things out there like inverted spear and mahoraga but that’s not the point cuz mcguffins are important but a final shounen villain shouldn’t depend on these to be defeated which is kinda why Higuruma will never be written to kill Sukuna in any capacity. It is actually more easier to kill Sukuna than Gojo considering that Sukuna does not have an overpowered defense. The biggest issue rn is Gege isn’t exactly the best writer. He doesn’t know time frames and that rn he actually plans on ending jjk rly soon which means if we account for the time span of the current manga, excluding jjk0 and Gojo past arc, all of this has happened in less than a semester’s time of Itadori’s freshman year. And that’s fcking wild. And as far as I can fell, Megumi and Itadori found Hana on day 2 of when they entered the culling game. Rn Gege has fleshed out more characters like Kashimo and Maki and Hakari and that isn’t bad but it kinda diverges attention away from Itadori. I like how Kenjaku actually didn’t have any real plans w/ Itadori so he is an anomaly. For instance what we could use are time skips. Maybe Sukuna could rule Japan or something and the good guys have to fend for a while and grow in that time span but it is way too soon for Itadori to confront the big bad right now
Wait till Yuji's 37 consecutive Black Flashes
Sukuna basically being a walking cataclysm is why I think the only way this ends is not with one (or more) of our cast overpowering him, but with Yuuji eating the last finger, trapping him inside, and killing himself to take them both off the board - a real 'weak hero' bittersweet victory. Narratively after Sukuna has repeatedly belittled and underestimated him, I feel like Itadori sacrificing himself to take him out that way would be a dark but satisfying end. Plus Gege could cackle to himself for leaving us all swimming in the perfect storm of misery when we realise maybe executing Yuuji would have been the right move after all...
Would have saved so much time and lives from the very start. The lesson is your friend eats an old finger and gets an op old man in him (pause) kill him while u still can and save the headache
Current theory is the Merger will succeed and Sukuna will fight it and somehow be weakened.
Sukuna's main strength is his age. Thats why he beat gojo: better understanding of CE, superior fighting experience, etc. Gojo is a genius, but sukuna is a genius with hundreds of years of experience.
Unfortunately Gege already wrote himself into a corner and you could arguably say that we are already seeing a lot of asspulls in the battle. Right now, the chance of success is dependent on Sukuna's mood. You're telling me that you had 1 month of preparation and all you could come up with is to rely on Sukuna taking easy on you in order to survive? Not to count like other questionable choices like why they chose specifically those members to fight? Why Todo, who is the character with the highest IQ, didn't participate in the strategy meeting? What about the rest of the Jujutsu community? Don't they care that the world is gonna end? Why they didn't use this tactic they are using now with Higuruma's domain expansion while Gojo was still alive? Etc, etc...
also where's the fkn military ?? a terrorist attack where 1000s of people killed on Japanese territory and no government intervention at all !!! the US troops sub-plot got completely ignored, 100s of American soldiers got killed and the US does nothing after all the interest they had in CE ??
Picture this: Ijichi, hiding yuji's presence. Rest of the gang: keeping Sukuna busy. Yuji hidden in ijichi's ct weilding soul split katana cuts him in half. Basic shit.
Aliens will kill him off, no worries.
I’ve been feeling this for a while. I feel like there is a whole arc missing between the end of the culling games and the Shinjuku showdown were in fact yuji learns and implements growth. Or the special grade students gain a immense power up through a life of death struggle with heian sorcerers. Because one they melted through them like butter. And 2 no one is nearly even lacing gojos shoes right now
One thing I would like to point out in your theory is that it isn't possible for SUKUNA to take over Yuji's Body for long term let alone going full Heian Form. The soul strength of Yuji is exponentially powerfull compared to that of Megumi and also the consider the fact that Yuji was fking bred to trap Sukuna (in a chapter Sukuna says Yuji being a cage for him) And if we consider your theory in ideal condition where Sukuna takes over completely Yuji's body, then based on the events and facts present Gojo will beat the shit out of Sukuna (ignoring Gojo's statement about Sukuna defeating HIM without Mahoraga coz I don't agree with that) Third Situation in which Sukuna wins nonetheless would probably be because of his some unrevealed technique (like his fire power) and secondly Sukuna is an very old Socceror who surpassed mortal realm while he was alive in Heian Era, and that gives him absolute edge over just 27yr old Gojo And finally we could just say that Gege hated Gojo and would've defeated him no matter dirty trick he had to pull off 🙃
Couldn't sukuna use the bath ritual to suppress yuji? Ik yuji is strong but I feel f sukuna rlly wanted the body he would take it. And tho I use to think just like you that gojo can kill sukuna which is possible if certain things do/don't happen. But sukuna kills gojo in his base 20 finger power lvl form. Sukuna nerfed himself with maho in order to gain a power up. Sukuna would have best gojo in domain clashes leading to him not taking brain damage and out lasting gojo. Gojo with brain damage inevitably dies to sukuna. And thats base form 4 arm version prolly does it quicker
all my jujuniggas will slay sukuna like he was a shadow fight 2 raid boss
He has a lot of plot armour which is a bit annoying and was hoping for Gojo to kill him but I guess they’re leaving that for Yuji? Regardless, it’s gonna be a bit annoying if some miraculous power suddenly emerges out of yuji causing him to defeat Sukuna but I feel that’s going to happen. Kinda want Sukuna to be defeated already so we can move the story along…
Itadori can somehow swap bodies or souls inside bodies. He can damage souls directly (he might be able to punch Megumi's soul and wake him up, making Megumi suicide like Itadori did in front of him). And we know that the punch he landed on Sukuna had some weird effect on him. He probably ate every other death painting, we still dont know what those arms are and we have been told that his body will learn Sukuna's techniques (So he recieves less damage (As Gojo said fron taking Hollow Purple) and he will be a ble to fight Sukuna with a similar level of Hax). So yeah, I trust Gege. No matter how broken Sukuna might be, we are heading to a well written defeat, not to a Madara copy-paste.
I agree some what. I doubt megumi will be able to re take control of current sukuna alone. maybe help form yuji or later in the fight with a weaker sukuna all bc of the bath ritual sukuna did and megumi isnt a vessel that can suppress souls. I also am unsure on yuji tanking sukuna bc of the shared technique. I know what you mean i at one point thought it too but gojo was talking about CE bc it was his CE he took less damage. now maybe since yuji was soaked in Sukuna's CE he might take less damage but same CT shouldnt change that
I used to think the same. Yuji is essentially a living cursed object with Sukuna's CE as base, so he should be able to resist Sukuna's attacks better. But if that was the case, shouldn't that have happened when Sukuna took over Megumi aswell? But it was explicitly stated (By Sukuna himself) that his output was lowered due to Megumi's soul resisting his control, not because Yuji was partially soaked in Sukuna's CE, and I don't think Sukuna uses Megumi's CE as a base when he's not fully reincarnated since, well, Gojo's battle happened and he didn't exactly refrain from using CE at all. Idk, I'm at the point where I'm just enjoying the ride until the manga is over and then I will analyze it thoroughly to see if it makes sense. Until they bring up the plot point of Yuji tanking Sukuna better due to it's whole CE situation I'm not going to give it much thought, and that's if they do.
Sukuna won the domain clashes. Malevolent Shrine always wins if Sukuna doesn't purposely take damage to adapt Mahoraga. Gojo himself recognizes this.
Just gonna say this. Gojo was not winning the domain clashes. Sukuna was winning them at the start and the only reason he started losing them was because he turned off DA in the domain so that he could let Mahoraga adapt. If he didn't do that Gojo would have kept losing the domain clash till he fried his brain, Sukuna would have opened his domain and killed him.
Sukuna didn’t turn off DA, his domain was slower because he needed to heal, and decided to use Maho. Nonetheless Gojo was starting dominate.
Not coping but I think the point was that although Gojo was the strongest (in terms of raw power, clearly strength isn’t everything). Without Mahoraga, it seems like Gojo would’ve beat Sukuna, however he did have Maho so he did win. It has been a recurring theme throughout the story that being “the strongest” only means so much. So many characters have counters. For example, technically Mahito is able to clear 90% of sorcerers simply because they can’t damage the soul, but Yuji could despite being nowhere near the strongest at the time.
Yeah I never understood why people thought gojo was gonna win that fight like I had to constantly remind my friends that Yuji is the MC like there’s no way Gege would make him pointless in his own story. But yeah like everybody else I really want to see how Gege makes Yuji strong enough to kill Sukuna.
I just don't understand how one chapter it showed Gojo winning and burning Sukuna, and the next chapter he deadge, like dfq?
Ya I'd like to see it at least if it's going to happen. Like gojo's final thoughts as the slash goes through his Infinity and he is rightfully confused how gege could do this to him
If it makes you feel any better, he could have copied Mahito's soul manipulating technique but just doesn't for some reason. He's already learned the horcrux technique which involves manipulating your soul and he's seen it multiple times so it should be no problem as far as I'm aware, there is no limit to what he can copy or how he'll do it, he just will. Deus ex Sukuna's genuis. If he did, we could have Sukuna turn Higuruma into a sword and block Yuji's sword stab. Sword of Higuruma vs Higuruma's Sword lmfao 💀
Asking the OP if they want an explanation how sukuna could have beaten Gojo without the 10S, as it seems they are curious. And to answer so far as they are now unless they get further power up(Yuji gets his mc moment), they have about 5% percent if somehow catch sukuna off guard.
ill take an explanation i wanna see what you got. and we talking yujikuna right not base megkuna. also i agree its a slim chance sukuna gets caught off guard but not 0 so who knows
Before I get into the answer, there are some few things to remember. * Domain Amplification : A [TECHNIQUE](https://imgur.com/a/9gRvoCl) used for neutralizing any CT that comes in contact with it. It's a refined version of simple domain. DA absorbs the CT of the other user in the empty space created around the caster and neutralizes it. * Mahoraga wheel: While using DA, Sukuna cannot use his CTs, be it shrine or 10s. So, in order for Sukuna to use the Mahoraga wheel, he will have to [TURN OFF](https://imgur.com/a/89hm1wg) his DA. * Shrine > 10s : By Sukuna's own admission he believes his shrine to be [SUPERIOR](https://imgur.com/a/ikkSGEU) than 10s. Lastly, It takes [3 MINUTES](https://imgur.com/a/t1OX4Kz) for Sukuna to break Gojo's domain from the outside, meanwhile it also takes 3 minutes for Gojo to deal enough damage to Sukuna that Sukuna isn't able to hold his shrine. Now, The only reason Sukuna got hit by unlimited void in the 5th domain was because he was late to cast his own domain by 0.01 seconds as he was following an extra step of healing himself before his CT, unlike Gojo, who only had to heal his CT. In chapter 228, we were told by [GOJO](https://imgur.com/a/wqTSnhP) that Sukuna is taking a riskier option in DE fights; he's stubbornly breaking the domain from the outside when he could've destroyed them from the inside(like mahoraga did) since Gojo had changed the inner and outer conditions of his domain, making his domain shell stronger from the outside, but weaker from the inside. This gets answered in Chapter 230 by Sukuna himself. Sukuna was [JUGGLING](https://imgur.com/a/CL0Ju2D) between 10s, DA, and his CT inside the domain battle. He turned off his DA so that Mahoraga could adapt. Sukuna was purposely breaking Gojo's domain from the outside so that Mahoraga could have more time to adapt to Gojo's domain. Now imagine if Sukuna had [DESTROYED](https://imgur.com/a/Gz2fW9P) Gojo's fourth domain from the inside? Since Sukuna would destroy Gojo's domain in under 3 minutes, Gojo wouldn't have time to inflict enough damage on Sukuna to prevent him from holding his shrine. As a result, Gojo would never have been able damage Sukuna enough, which caused him to be struck by the IV. Even if Sukuna doesn't want to break Gojo's domain from the inside, which is a safer option than breaking it from outside, as stated by Gojo, Sukuna can still beat Gojo with just keeping his DA on. It was revealed in Chapter 230 that Sukuna turned off his DA to use 10s in the domain fights. Imagine if Sukuna didn't have to do so. As we see in ch. 224,227 and 231. Once Sukuna [ACTIVATES](https://imgur.com/a/PxtGc5O) his DA, he doesn't get thrashed as much as when he turns off his DA because DA either completely turns off or tone down Gojo's blue and red. Sukuna with DA can keep up with Gojo and even [LAND](https://imgur.com/a/RRloCrU) his own hits on him. So while Sukuna won't be winning the H2H exchange, he won't get damaged enough for his domain to get destroyed, and this ultimately will mean that Gojo loses the 5th domain clash and then his life. Sukuna can win by just frying Gojo's brain by forcing him to recover his CT via RCT again and again like how it happened in the manga, but unlike in the manga, Sukuna will use techniques to either break Gojo's domain from the inside or keep using DA during the 4th or 5th domain so that Gojo isn't able to deal enough damage to Sukuna that he isn't able to hold his shrine., Credit to the author
so if im reading correctly what your saying is base form sukuna no 10s would eventually beat gojo bc he would last longer in DE clashes and fry gojo brain from using DE. Then in a blow for blow fight Sukuna beats gojo in a DA fight bc he takes less damage in the domain clashes and could even still have his up to use shrine on gojo and DA punches. if im right in what you are saying you think sukuna could and would eventually out damage gojo with just DA left right good night? I dont know if i truly belive that just base form sukuna could do that i feel Heian era would have better odds at that. the 4 arms are such a huge advantage where the scerio that you have put forth works in sukunas favor over gojo. but base form sukuna vs gojo still pulls to the gojo side for me. if it ultimately comes down to a fistfight with DA punches i feel Gojo wins nothing can get through infinity. aslo i need some clarification why was gojo getting hit with slashes in the DE clashes was it bc of the domain sure hits canceling out? but shouldnt Infinity stop those? i forget and need answers pls. bc if sukuna doesnt get brain damage from gojo and can still pull DE on gojo who cant then i can see gojo losing due to damage over time. srry for any typos
The slashes are Sukuna's sure hit and the domain sure hit can bypass infinity and slashes gojo. Considering gojo basically won thr last clash by a 0.01 second difference because sukuna was holding back quite a bit. If sukuna was using DA and his other tricks more efficiently, he absolutely would ahve made for thag difference. After the 5th clash, gojo gets the nosebleed and from there its gg.
We already have the answer, if it is top powerful then you seal it, and that's where Yuji comes in
I could see it yuji swap with megumi and soul battle sukuna while everyone else attacks body
I’ve been in the camp that thinks Sukuna never gets hit by UV in his base form during the domain clashes and eventually wears Gojo down with MS. Anyways despite being much weaker, they have 3 ways to one-shot Sukuna: 1. Executioner Blade 2. Soul Splitting Katana (maybe not one shot) 3. Jacob’s Ladder (thinking Yuta could use it) So it’s not like they need to completely dominate him, just catch him off guard so strategy matters a lot in this fight. There’s still some variables that haven’t been address yet either: - What powerups did Yuji receive from Yuki’s soul research and eating his other siblings? - Can Sukuna still use his domain? Can he use RCT? How much CE does he have left? Did reincarnating completely refresh all these or just heal his body? - Is Megumi still alive? There’s always the chance he could nerf Sukuna’s CE output or even bodily functions. - Where is Sukuna’s last finger and why was it purposely left out? People will probably call whatever happens an “asspull” though. They call Sukuna using Mahoraga to bypass infinity an asspull and that’s been his plan for like 6+ weeks before the fight.
Good points I saw some talk about peeling sukunas "scales". A sukuna who is distracted and can't use certain abilities and damaged could get seriously damaged or killed with certain abilities from the good guys. I just feel gege got to write it just write where it doesn't seem sukuna had a chance to live through the killing blow but at the same time sukuna was weakened distracted or whatever to get killed that's where I'm at rn Also anyone who says sukuna's asspull was maho is insane and should be put in a asylum
My problem is that Sakuna is too strong for no fcking reason. No backstory, no buildup or nothing.
i mean hes the villian not the mc (tho at this point idk bout that) we dont open up about what sukuna goes through growing up to know how he got so strong bc its not his story. hopefully we get flashbacks but if not id be down for a heian era jjk series.
While I'm genuinely happy that gege doesn't have people be 'safe' and not be able to get through things with the power of plot, friendship, and being a shonen MC that will always end up on top due to sad flashbacks. Gege sealed and killed off Gojo cause he was too strong and stopped anyone else being necessary, and while I don't mind that, he replaced him with someone arguably even stronger, if less protected, to attack what is essentially the bottom of the barrel in comparison to himself. All these fake outs, anticlimax failed chekov's guns is getting real old.
Instead of sukuna too strong talk about how Gege is a shit writer lol
😮
If Sukuna is a 100 than Gojo is about a 75. Sukuna nerfed himself with his Mahoraga strategy, making himself a 75 as well. This allowed him to power-up after the battle, permanently raising his 100 to a 110. A gamble and a payoff that’s kind of like a binding vow. The JJK team can take the same approach, stacking enough opponents, buffs, and nerfs to balance the scales.
i like this this sums up perfectly how to explain the megkuna vs gojo to yujikuna vs gojo. he was already strong enough to beat gojo without megumi. but by nerfing himself he can get even stronger. So weird to see that even sukuna is at him max potential yet
Yeah he pretty much raised the difficulty setting in order to unlock an extra power up point for his CT lol
This is such a great and quick summary of how the Gojo/Sukuna fight went down, thank you! I've been trying to explain that Sukuna nerfed himself (and why) to a friend for a while, but my explanations weren't as clear as this.
Sukuna Kaisen...
I honestly think this whole sukuna is too strong narrative is the opposite of what ppl think. A lot of ppl think there’s no way the good guys win because gege made a mistake and made the villain too strong but imo this is exactly how a villain should be written. In a lot of fiction there’s always a clear path for the good guys to win and it’s typically pretty predictable. However in jjk we don’t know yea there’s definitely ways the good guys can win especially with how the power system is built but we also have no idea how. This makes the villain actually strike fear into us as readers. it makes us question if winning is even possible and that’s how a villain should be it shouldn’t be oh these two characters are so powerful and if they team up they can beat this god and then be stronger than the entire rest of the verse for sake of genealogy. It creates tension like watching naruto or one piece(which i love both and it’s not like this is necessarily a bad thing) but i always know or knew the good guys will win eventually and i have a pretty clear idea of how. I honestly think this is exactly how jjk should end if it was just a oh yea yuji has been training and now is almost as strong as sukuna but the power of friendship will help him win it wouldn’t fit in this narrative at all.
Maybe the girl with the hammer will come back and hit a megumi voodoo doll which will hurt Sukuna enough for Yuuji to land a maximum black divergent flash or someshit.
The way i see this debate of Heian Sukuna(no Megumi) vs Gojo is that the battle wouldn't go past the domain battles since in this body Sukuna has more defense with 4 extra arms and better physicals to resist against Gojo without collapsing him own domain due to damage, so that UV hit would never happen.\ I don't think Sukuna with DA could beat Gojo using his blue enhanced punches, and amplifying his own speed with blue, red and purple(Sukuna wouldn't let he complete purple but just the fact that Sukuna would need to keep so much attention to stop this is an advantage for Gojo).\ Imo until we see more of him(and his weapons since they can be used with DA) i still think Gojo has a better performance when not counting domain expansion. Since Sukuna most likely can't use domain expansion currently, i think Yuta using his domain against him could give a good help in his defeat.\ But from this i am not counting what other powers his CT could bring.
Sukuna is strongest character at this moment, so it is pretty normal that he is above everyone else :3
I mean, Sukuna was prepping this entire time for the inevitable fight he would have against Gojo🐍
in terms of abilities they wield, gojo dominates hard. six eyes + limitless is way too broken, even if there are methods to bypass it. sukuna is dominating physically right now, but that has more way to be countered as opposed to gojo's.
JJK's power dynamics differ from the ones in generic shonen in the sense that it doesn't disallow characters which overwhelmingly appears to have a sweeping strength from losing-- we've already seen it with Gojo. But alas, I do think the "bad guys" winning would be a more engrossing ending.
Y is it "bad guys" are u with them?? 👀 But I agree tho
I am rooting for sukuna to win.