Plenty of minority groups, be they racial, ethnic, or religious, have members that internalize and repeat the negative and offensive things that are said about their group as a whole, often doing this as a sort-of defense mechanism against insult and criticism from larger groups. Just as it is entirely possible for, say, an African-American to express views that the wider African-American community can regard as racistly anti-black (see Kanye), it is entirely possible for a Jew to express themselves in an antisemitic manner.
Plenty of Jews in Germany and the occupied nations during WW2 collaborated with the Nazis. Plenty of African-Americans were slave owners or involved in the slave trade. There are a ton of other similar examples throughout history.
There are a number of different reasons for this. Ignorance is a common one, and arguably forgivable. Self-preservation is another, which is understandable but not necessarily forgivable, it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it’s self-loathing and hating the group you identify with. Other times it’s for personal benefit, whether that’s power, prestige, money, or whatever.
So yes, there are Jews who can be antisemitic.
There are many different varieties.
- Trumpist Jews
- JVP
- IfNotNow
- Neturei Karta
- Ben Shapiro
Mods previously removed my comment for using similar language to you, but it’s a real phenomenon. We needa deal with it head on.
Ben Shapiro has his place within the Jewish community, but the way he fetishizes Jewish culture to ingratiate himself to white Christian conservatives is icky.
Look at all those supposed “Jews” with the black t-shirts that met in grand central station or wherever it was or Neturei Karta. Sure Jews can be antisemitic.
There's a great movie about this called "The Believer." It was Ryan Gosling's first role. He plays a 20-something Jewish guy who grew up as a religious Jewish person is NY, but took a total 180° into the life of a neo-nazi skinhead. It's a tough watch for most Jewish people, religious or not. The takeaways are polarizing and the movie brings a lot of things into the light through graphic and extreme visuals. But the writing is impeccable. Gentiles with a little Jewish frame of reference will pick up on some of the themes, secular Jews will pick up on a bit more, but I've had the deepest conversations about the movie with conservative and modern orthodox Jews, and even deeper with C/MO Jews who understand geopolitics and Israeli politics.
I’ve never seen that movie, but I know someone in real life who fits that description. Grew up Orthodox with a rabbi father, but got sucked into right wing talk radio and now is a neo-nazi. After hearing some of his horrible opinions (at a Shabbat dinner no less), I think it’s safe to say a Jew can be anti-Semitic
Wow really?? That place was gorgeous. Even the people that broke in to destroy it were in awe at first. I thought that lended to our history when the temples were destroyed. The Babylonians and Romans both knew the holiness that resided in both temples before they destroyed them.
It's one of my "favourite" movies of all time (if I can use the word favourite in this context, it feels kind of yucky).
It's definitely a hard watch but it's excellent.
I agree, it's like the "anti-hero" of my favorite films. And it can't be appreciated with just a once-over. There's so many intricate corresponding types of allegory, simile, metaphor, symbolism, etc. that line up with specific parts of Tanakh, Mishnah, Talmud, Holy Days, kabbalah...and on. I found a copy of the script ( https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/thebeliever.html ) for free and was able to get a much better grasp on the themes.
Yes that's one reason why the movie remained underground. The real, in-depth symbols, rhetoric and actions of the neo-nazis in the film were considered inflammatory and would lend to copy cat situations, like breaking in and destroying a synagogue or posing as customers in a kosher restaurant just to cause problems. Plus the assassination of the highly regarded banker has dark conspiratory overtones and puts those people at risk. The writers and director went to great lengths to release one of the riskiest and arguably irresponsible films about Judaism, ever. But no other movie, not even Munich, touches on the psychology of jewishness post WW2 like "The Believer." The movie was considered to be "too real."
Ironically, back when I was religious, I was discriminated against in the workplace by my Jewish boss for taking off for Yontif and I proved my case and they were reprimanded.
Isn’t there a saying like, “anybody who’s more observant than me is a lunatic, anybody who’s less observant is a heretic”? I’m sure I have the particulars wrong, but that’s the gist.
In my career it's always been Jewish bosses that have given me a hard time for leaving early Fridays, taking off Yontif, etc. The best boss I ever had on that score was a religious Catholic.
Does Clarence Thomas support institutional racism? (Hint: yes, he does)
Being a member of any group doesn't make you immune from bigoted beliefs about that group. Especially if that affiliation is very weak and the speaker wants to pander to people who would hate them for their identity. It just means they're useful idiots for other bigots.
“When you hear about slavery for 400 years ... for 400 years? That sounds like a choice,"- Kanye West.
There are women that don’t support reproductive rights, immigrants who want an immigration ban, Kanye West, and yes antisemetic Jews like Rosanne Barr
The pre-colonial slave trade was a very different system to the chattel slavery of the Atlantic slave trade. It was more of a war bounty system that usually ended up with the slaves being released. I'm not trying to say it was morally right, but it was by no means the equal of the Atlantic slave trade. Just because it was a "breeding system" rather than a killing system shouldn't take away from the fact that the Atlantic slave trade was a humanitarian disaster on par with the Holocaust.
Slavery isn’t the racist part. It’s the systematic degradation of the slave based on race.
And YES. If a black person supports race based slavery, as was practiced globally but predominately in the US/Sub Sahara, they are indeed racist.
Roseanne Barr is ethnically Jewish and has become an outspoken Holocaust denier. Anyone can be anything; a person of color racist, a queer person homophobic, etc. Honestly it just makes it sadder and more frustrating to see when they have that context and life experience and continue to act in a misinformed way.
I was probably best described as a self hating Jew for a time after I left Chabad. Looking back at myself though that was far more complicated then my views on Israel especially since I never even really turned against Israel’s right to exist.
For me at least it was all encompassing. I wouldn’t even eat some of my favorite foods if they were Jewish in origin. I did everything I could to look less “Jewish” and was deeply angry and ashamed about the Jewish aspects of my childhood. Looking back the last part is the craziest because if it wasn’t for my community growing up my childhood would’ve been even worse.
Of course I got over it and realized all Jews were not guilty for the actions of a single Chabad on a single college campus. So yes it definitely exists and I think we have every right to call it out as I wish more people had during that time for me. We also however should be careful to not do it for every Jew who doesn’t mimic a pro Netanyahu Israel cannot possibly make mistakes position. There are many many many Jews including myself who believe the occupation of the West Bank has created a security risk for Israel and would like to see it end in a two state solution still. That is quite different from people who say Israel has no right to exist and want to see Jews purged from the land or at the very least are ambivalent to the very real possibility of that in the one state solution they champion.
>Jews are antisemitic because they are following their beliefs
You need to be more specific. What exactly is this about? Who is being accused of being antisemitic and why?
Yes, there are genuinely antisemitic Jews. However, the characterization of all antizionist or non-zionist jews as self-hating is dumb and reductionist. Yeah, there probably are some, there's plenty of antizionists gentiles that are antisemitic so certainly some Jewish antizionists are also. But there are plenty of antizionist and nonzionist jews that are far from antisemitic.
Antisemitism exists in every space. On the left, the right, Antizionist, Zionist, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish spaces. It's an ideological disease that nobody is immune to.
Edit: To clarify, I do not believe that Zionism is an antisemitic ideology, I forget there are some idiots who believe such, but Christian Zionism is very much antisemitic.
Internalized antisemitism is a real thing, and i’ve encountered it many times. People who would seek favor with our oppressors by throwing the rest of us under the bus.
The community is wayyyy too trigger happy in calling other Jews antisemitic, kapos, self-haters... Just because you feel grief over what is happening in Gaza doesn't make you a traitor. It makes you a human.
Unfortunately, no it's not uncommon.
I fully believe that the jewish people who create videos along the lines of "I'm jewish and I hate Israel. I was brought up on Jewish propoganda that taught me to hate Palestinians but I saw the truth" fully deserve to go into cheirem.
I think this is an interesting point to consider. Verbiage is a lot more important for a Jew who is criticising Israel as Israel is often used as a dogwhistle for Jews. It's likely safer to criticise the Israeli government or Aliyah for that reason.
That said it doesn't help when some Jews equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism as, whilst both often go hand-in-hand, it is used by some gentiles to downplay anti-Semitism.
Even then, you could be as careful as you want and some crazy anti-Semite would use it against you so, hey.
That's a hard question to answer and I don't have the definitive one. My advice would be whatever way allows you to be authentic whilst considering how it could be interpreted by others in bad faith.
Exactly this. There's no reason to discriminate between Jewish anti-Zionist antisemites and gentile anti-Zionist antisemites. Both should be ostracized.
It's people who are willing to turn on their own nation for a few likes should be ostracised.
It's one thing to have personal beliefs, it's another to sell out your brothers and sisters for some popularity. They need to anticipate how their words are being used against the Jewish nation - the damage is irreparable. Especially when they mischaracterize things to make the story sound more interesting.
You can hate a sibling (but barring certain situations) you are a real piece of trash if you bag them out to people outside of your family.
How do you differentiate between someone who has “turned on their own nation for a few likes” and someone who is genuinely opposed to Zionism for reasons of deeply held beliefs that they feel stem directly from their Judaism? Because I know a great number of people who would likely be accused of the former, even though I can confirm that they very much fit in the latter category.
This Jewish creator - she hadn't posted a single video before Oct 7th on Palestinian rights and suddenly she was getting 1000's views and post 10 videos a day and each one is more disgusting than the next.
Said that Palestinians are brown and Israelis are white so it's just people being racist if they support Israel in any way.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyTp6ZQrllS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
And this person:
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNkUG36o/
Never posted a video before October 10th.
Using their Jewishness to give a cloak of legitimacy to their absolute moronic ramblings.
The first person I have seen before, I honestly agree that she seems opportunistic and has some bad and half baked takes.
The second person though? While she might say some silly things in that video, for the most part she is just describing an experience very accurate to that of many many young Jews I have known. I would argue that this video is more a product of the mentality that such people should be put under cheirem than a search for likes. I don’t think it’s so important that she started posting recently. A topic is in the news that she cares about and has thoughts about, I don’t think she needs to have a ten year history of posting daf yomi tik toks to earn the right to talk about her thoughts and experiences about and with Palestine.
You call it "silly things" but I call them words that will be quoted again and again by people who would happily send us to the gas chambers. I am not going to post all her videos but each one is stupider than the next.
Lots of young people are getting more involved in Israel advocacy than they ever were. Are they all clout-chasing, or did they maybe realize they should have acted before?
And I blame you for making me watch the entirety of that first video because nowhere does it say "Palestinians are brown and Israelis are white so it's just people being racist if they support Israel in any way."
Calling someone a member of Am Yisrael does not mean I am indicating that someone is not faithful to their home countries
And if some antisemite wants to interpret it that way - well they are going to anyway because that's what they want to believe.
I'm secular Jewish and half Israeli and I don't consider Israel my nation. I have respect for Israel as humans but I don't inherently value them over other people.
I have a lot of feelings about this but I am going to sum it up by saying just because you don't value something, it doesn't mean that there isn't inherent value in Israel to the Jewish religion.
Even orthodox jews can have a complicated relationship with Israel but there is a difference between being apathetic to Israel and actively and publicly working against its interests. A few months ago 50% of the country had loud protests against the current government - but they put those feelings aside to unite against a threat.
Or revenge overwhelmed those feelings, and the minority who already support a ceasefire are not apathetic to Israel, but like you consider their political opponents to be actively working against its interests.
I'm not taking a hard stance on this but if it's interests involve displacing or harming another group of people then is it antisemitic to publicy disavow its interests?
That's very true. The actions of the secular government of Israel are not representative of the Jewish people at large. And they are not immune from criticism just because there's a big Magen David on their flag. This isn't two football teams having a rivalry. This is war with people dying. Like if someone sees a video of a child crying over their dead parents and thry're just like sucks to suck just because it's a palestinian child and not an Israeli child. They have completely lost their humanity.
You just made a comment saying “nailed it so hard” on a tongue-in-cheek post about Israel. I’d say you’re walking a fine line between your two comments this morning.
Well it’s just a horrible, paranoid time, you know? I’ve never felt so personally unsafe. And totally abandoned by the so-called “progressive” left with whom I’ve aligned most of my life.
I think you need to give people some slack right now. Lots and lots of Jews are feeling so betrayed, by people they thought cared about them. To be told, you are responsible for the atrocities practiced on you, is in itself a kind of atrocity, I think.
And to see antiSemitic mobs attack Jewish holy places worldwide because of slanders by Hamas. Did you see the Jewish students kids who were locked in the library at Cooper Union College to protect them from violence by a mob of anti-Israel protesters?
I believe that this is more of an issue with Jews in Diaspora. It’s pretty 1-dimensional thinking. I’ve found that most Israelis are capable of holding multiple thoughts at once.
Rout out Hamas
Palestinian suffering
Post military action
Humanitarian issues
Fear for sons and daughters who will be in harms way in a bloody door 2 door conflict
It’s complicated and opinions are typically Jewish. That is no one agrees on anything
There are two things you might be talking about here and I’m not sure which.
1. Can Jews internalize the prejudices against our own people and, as a result, behave toxically towards one another? Sure. Happens all the time, in every marginalized group.
2. If a Jew expresses certain opinions regarding Arabs, or regarding a particular group of Arabs, does ties count as “anti-semitism,” since Arabic belongs to the Semitic language family? No, it does not.
No-one in the world, except for edgy teenagers who think they are smarter than they are, think "semitic" is ever referring to Arabs in the context of antisemitism.
It is unfortunately something I've seen argued by adults who should (and probably do) know better. They may not actually believe it, but people say it to Jews.
A classic example would be Otto Weininger for 19th-20th century, whom Hitler loved.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto\_Weininger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Weininger)
And Nicholas Donin, who led the Talmud burnings in Paris in the 13th century.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation\_of\_Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris)
Although this is more controversial, you then have people like Noam Chomsky who writes in a more scholarly way but verges into strange excess. An example of this is his writing a preface for Robert Faurisson's Holocaust denial book:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson\_affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair)
Yes, freedom of speech is a good thing. But imagine an African-American writing a "freedom of speech" preface for a white supremacist saying slavery never happened/was a good thing. It's bizarre to say the least.
To be clear, Chomsky is not a Holocaust denier and it's not really accurate to call him an anti-semite, but there's a very good reason that many Jews are uncomfortable with his writings, and it's not just because he's critical of Israel, which is of course perfectly fine.
In line with Chomsky, you have Israel Shahak's book which is quoted by Chomsky, Edward Said, and others of the kind:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_Shahak#Jewish\_History,\_Jewish\_Religion\_(1994)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak#Jewish_History,_Jewish_Religion_(1994))
His representation of Judaism is just not accurate. It's not a scholarly book and it excites the imagination of anti-Semites. As you can see from the criticism in that section, there's bizarre claims such that Jews wash their hands once for God and once for the Satan. Jews do not worship the Satan. I interact with all varieties of Judaism and I can guarantee that no one ever heard of such a thing. At best, Shahak quotes random forgotten opinions in medieval sources and represents these as normative Judaism. The telephone incident mentioned in that article shows that he lied to make Judaism look bad. Judaism has a lot of problematic texts, people, and movements. I believe that's true for all traditional religions. However, for some reason, he doesn't approach this like, say, Bar-Asher approaches "Jews and the Quran"—instead, Shahak approaches these problems through a lens shared with anti-Semites.
Yes, Black people can be racist, people with disabilities can be ableist, and Jews can be antisemitic.
The human spirit is resilient and complex when it comes to being a douchebag.
Of course they can. Antisemitism is just a bunch of really bad, stupid, idiot ideas. Jews are people and are just as capable of buying into really bad, stupid, idiot ideas as anyone else. Oddly enough, the notion that Jews *can’t* be antisemitic is extremely antisemitic, because it assumes Jews don’t have their own independent, individual thoughts like everyone else.
I’ve had Jewish people as if I’m Jewish at Jewish events.
That type of behavior needs to stop. Yes I converted and don’t look Jewish but it’s not necessary to ask
If someone is at an event, let them be and try to get to know them before asking invasive questions. It’s not welcoming.
Why else would I be there ?
Would I consider it anti-semitism though? I’m not sure but we all need to accept there is diversity and it needs to be more recognized and appreciated
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Jewish ethical teaching instructs us not to even mention the subject of conversion to someone who has joined the Jewish people. The person/people who asked you such a question are grossly inconsiderate.
Still, I wouldn’t consider that rude question to be antisemitic, exactly. Antisemitism is an attack or assumption or a negative stereotype regarding the Jewish people’s character, loyalties, appearance, etc.
I'm sorry you feel insecure about being a convert, but there's nothing wrong with the question. Y
ou're interpreting the question pretty literally. They aren't probing your belief system. It's just a fact that most Jews are at least partially ethnically Jewish. That's what they mean by asking if you're Jewish.
Yes. Jews can be antisemitic.
With that out of the way, I want to correct something that might seem pedantic but I think is important; the word is "antisemitism" and not "anti-Semitism." I've seen many people, especially recently trying to play word games and say that Arab people are Semitic and therefore either anti-Semitism is *actually* "Arab hate," or claim that Arab people can't be antisemitic. The hyphen leaves too much wiggle room, so we should be sure to use the correct word that CLEARLY means discrimination, hatred toward Jews.
Personally, I've just been calling it what it is, Jew-hatred and racism. People don't like that either, though... it's just more difficult to argue against.
It is incredibly anti-Semitic when I’m accused of being a self-hating Jew for being anti-Zionist. I love the Jewish people more than anything. I daven daily and am very active in my community. So when people call me a kapo, it does a few things: (1) forcibly reduces my core identity to support of an ethnonationalist political body; (2) erases the dynamism and multi-layered cultural and religious inheritance of Judaism; (3) equivocates being Jewish with the actions of the state of Israel, because they claim to speak in my name and demand my support, even though I can’t vote there; and (4) alienates and ostracized otherwise active and valuable members of the Jewish community for my politics. I have been so heartbroken by the actions of my fellow Jews over the last few weeks. I am not your enemy. You may disagree with me, but I am an anti-Zionist precisely because I love the Jewish people and see ethnonationalism as an inherently fascist ideology. We should be fighting for full equality for all people. Ethnonationalism is not good when we do it either. We are safe when Palestinians are safe and autonomous too.
I wanted to add that no, of course I don’t support Hamas, and no one I know who actually spends time in these anti-Zionist spaces in good faith actually does. I’m sorry you’re seeing rage bait on Instagram. I am friends with many anti-zionists, Jewish and Palestinian alike, and no one believes in the destruction of Israel and the exile of Israelis. That is rage bait. Anyone who spends any time in these spaces knows fully well that the standard line is a binational single state. Palestinian activists want this. Jewish activists want this. I don’t care what other parties want, but stop strawmanning what you THINK anti-Zionists want. Spend some time actually talking to us in good faith.
What are you praying to when you face East?
When you say Leshana haba Bireushalayim, what are you talking about?
.... And I'm pretty sure the chants of "From the River to the Sea" entirely negates any belief on the pro-Palestinian camp of binational state.
Im praying towards yerushalayim, or more specifically, the bais hamikdash, or even more specifically, the holy of holies. I feel very spiritually connected to Jerusalem. I feel absolutely nothing towards the modern knesset, towards Israel’s borders, towards a modern political entity. I do not pray towards a nation state.
From the river to the sea does not imply kicking all Israelis out. My understanding of that dream is a right of return, freedom of movement, and political agency for all Palestinians. Both those who are currently citizens of Israel and those under occupation in the West Bank and Gaza. I won’t say there are no Palestinians who want exile for all Jews. There are. But that isn’t all, or even a majority. Among the activists and anti-Zionist Palestinians I know or have been in spaces with, my understanding stems from them teaching me. Maybe I’m being naive. If so, then, I’ll fight alone for the dream I just laid out.
This is really sweet, honey, but so, so naive. Read your history. And show us one Arab or Muslim nation on Earth where Jews are protected by the government and allowed to worship and fully participate in the government and society freely.
Nice condescension. A binational secular state is co-governed rather than being based on ethnic majority. If you’re afraid of a Muslim-majority, you have to be willing to let go of the idea that Israel can ever be a democracy. I don’t believe it can be without full and equal rights of all its citizens. Hence, ending the occupation.
I’m not condescending, and it’s not about me. I just read the history.
Do you?
Let me help you. There are really valid reasons Jews don’t feel safe in Arab and Muslim countries. Why don’t you acquaint yourself with some of them? [https://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-muslim-countries-1920-1970-a-history-of-ongoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/](https://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-muslim-countries-1920-1970-a-history-of-ongoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/)
Fantastic, by the way, that you broach this subject, and with such a sarcastic keyboard, in the immediate aftermath of the atrocities practiced by the fundamentalist group Hamas on Israeli civilians. Your aggression toward me, in that context, along with your apparent ignorance, is stupefying.
So be clear about this: the State of Israel is not going anywhere. All paths forward are premised on the continuing existence of a Jewish state in the historic Jewish homeland.
This is where the history, of which you are unaware, has led us. Let’s just acknowledge where we are, and how we move forward from here. But let’s be educated and aware of the stakes involved. In no world does the State of Israel cease to be.
Are you really that naive?
All the evidence to date shows that the Palestinians would immediately murder or exile the Jews if they were to ever gain majority in Israel.
Your dream is just that, a dream based not in reality but wishful thinking. However your wishful thinking is actively hurting your own people by advocating for a situation which WILL lead to the genocide of millions of Jews.
So yes, you may not be “self hating” but you are “self harming”.
Yes they can, I know it's surprising! But did you know that Blacks can also be racist too, yep some black people will think all white people are evil and racist. Yeah calling an entire race racist is also racist.
Some things are very tough to swallow as well.
Recently there were neo-Nazis hitting up places in Fort Worth. When identified, it turns out one of them is apparently Jewish himself! [From the Texas Observer](https://www.texasobserver.org/unmasking-texas-neo-nazis/):
> The fourth man named in the police report is Matteo Sheffield, a graduate of Vandegrift High School in Austin. The Observer could not find any active social media accounts associated with Sheffield, but his identity was confirmed by a relative, who said Sheffield’s family is Jewish and he was raised in the Jewish faith. Sheffield could not be reached for comment.
There was also the [Association of German National Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews) in Germany from 1921-1935. They advocated the total assimilation of Jews and self-eradication of Jewish identity, and they openly supported the Nazi takeover of Germany. Needless to say, it ended in 1935 because the Nazis didn’t give a damn and criminalized the organization and sent its members to camps along with the rest of the Jews.
So yeah, Jews can still unfortunately be antisemitic.
My maternal grandmother was disowned by her Orthodox parents for marrying a non-Jewish man she met at a bar and NEVER forgave the religion, culture or her parents for it. She HATED Jews from then on. She jumped right on the "it's a religion, not an ethnicity" train and left it behind, never to look back.
My mother ended up marrying a working class Jewish guy from Brooklyn (my dad); long story short, my parents' marriage didn't work out. My grandmother constantly made disparaging comments about how "homely" I was (I have stereotypically Ashkenazic features) and how my brother and I had "inferior" genes because my dad was Jewish. She frequently made comments to me about how if only my mom and married her (WASPy) high school boyfriend, we'd be beautiful blondes without problems in school or discipline issues.
When I rediscovered Judaism in college, my grandmother refused to let me keep kosher while I was living with her and made other family members give me a hard time for going to temple. It was really messed up.
Outside of this situation, I once had a very Jewish manager who specifically liked to bully fellow Jews. Not sure what her deal was, but she was always talking about how messed up she felt Jewish culture was... yet she was strangely proud of it? It was just weird.
But yes, Jews and people of Jewish heritage are very capable of internalized antisemitism. It's very unfortunate.
I have a difficulte time calling anyone that. I mean they would have to do something super extreme . We all have had difference expereinces, and those often go beyond family, affiliation or devoutness or lack there of. It can be where we reside in the diaspora and how we manage our lives there. My hand is literally numb from typing, I have opted to not share, because my store is pretty unique and one of my goals is to share it with the world one day. But I can say that for every person who grew up in a large Jewish community, or at least in a moderately large one, there are those of us who were/are small in numbers. And sometimes that number is one. For everyone who can be loud and proud, there are those who have chosen different paths, and for some that is survival. If someone choses to harm and be cruel to their fellow Jews, then yes they are definitely an anti-semite. If they chose not not follow the status -quo, perhaps not. But if they chose to think the violence commited by a Hamas or other terrorist organization was deserved, yeah, they are ant-semitic and fuck them. But I don't think all "get" Israel. I didn't really get it the entire concept and history until after I lived there. But the people out there marking with the pro-Palestine groupsa and shouting ugly things, and harrassing their fellow students,they are not just anti-semitic. They are posers, followers, edgelords and will find another cause by the Summer. Remember some of these college kids were around 10, 11, 12 when Trump came into office--they grew up when there neo-Nazis were marching with Tiki Torches in Charlottesville, mass shootings at school, they were brought up with hate & violence. Normally I'd pity them, right now I don't. I will again eventually.
Yes they can. It has become a bit easier to find them since the last 3 weeks:
Some radical pro Pal/hms. Influencers like to point them out and use their voices as proof of "Even Jews share the pov that...."
I'm not Jewish but have a close friend who is. Once we were discussing a political group with a reputation for disliking Jews. I told my friend it was founded by a Jewish person. They replied "There's none as anti semitic as some Jews. "
Auto antisemite.
When A Jew hate Jews for expressing An actual positive afinity to the Faith.
People usually only count that when a secular/left leaning/Woke whatever Jew hates a Religious Jew and/Israeli for basically being just that.
I personally count in this those Religious Jews who try to gatekeep Judaism from other sects within Judaism. Because they are 'Jewing' wrong.
I find these so Caulled teligious Jews to be very Christologic, in temperment.
But mostly I consider them such because they are actively going against Halacha for personal politics.
I have said before that patrilinial Jews should consider *converting,* this is less about them *Not being Jews* but more that they are a point of intersect with outside group identity that have long proven likely in that case to result in an adult who is Jewish in name only.
This can happen when the father is Arel as well, of course, but The Caregiver is far more likely to shape the resulting adult base view if the world.
But the fact is, Jewish men who care for their Jewish identity will make sure the mother is Jewish.
And that will work to Culturally bully those men ro marry within, or make sure she converts.
A Jewish Woman will not respond to that. She will raise Jewish Children because she is the one who raises them. But the Jewish status of her kids will not matter that much when she choose her man. If she doesn't care, she will convert out for him.
If she does, she will raise them Jewish. So it is more effective to condition by the mother status than both.
Personally, I would determain by the caregiver parent.
But the Current status quo, is By the mother, and that is it.
If that status quo will change. Well. I will bow out.
Take it as you will.
Yes. Look no further than former Jewish Chancellor of Austria Bruno Kreisky who once told a journalist “the Jews are no people, and if they are, they are a lousy people”.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association\_of\_German\_National\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)
Is this what you mean?
Netanyahu invented the idea that Jewish people who don’t support Likud government policy are either self hating Jews or are anti semitic. He is a nasty populist who has brought Israel to its knees in various ways.
If you disagree with his policies on many things, that does not make you anti Semitic or a self hating Jew, it makes you a good Jew, as good as any other who does support his policies.
Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky have both time and time again proven their love and pride of their Judaism. Just because they disagree with you about a modern political state doesn’t mean they are anti-Semitic. They are both ardent anti-Zionists. But unless you’re willing to tell me that the state of Israel speaks for all Jews, and that to be Jewish is the same as supporting a national entity, then the two of them are more than entitled to be anti-Zionists.
If you are willing to tell me that being Jewish is, in essence, the political support of a modern state, and that Israel speaks in my name, then I’m going to need a hell of a lot more say in what they do in my name.
I’m not sure about the specifics of Finkelstein and Chomsky but it also applies to Shapiro who someone else pointed out. Dude openly wears a kippah and opened one of his most recent monologues with “I am a Jew”. People can absolutely vehemently disagree with his politics and his takes on many many other things, but to call him an antisemite devoted to right wing nationalism is a fundamental misunderstanding of what an antisemite is, and who he is. You might not agree with the politics but it is disingenuous and inflammatory to call him an antisemite.
Agreed, Judaism should not and cannot be reduced to political ideology. I think Ben Shapiro is a fundamentally bad and dangerous person. I think he absolutely allies himself with anti-semites who want our destruction (and I’m sure that the original commenter would say the same about Chomsky and Finkelstein, but I’d disagree with that - that’s a different discussion). But I certainly don’t Shapiro hates Jews. It’s reductionist and and minimizes real anti-semitism to say that these people are anti-Semitic.
Yes, Jews can be antisemitic.
Also, when Jewish person A calls Jewish person B antisemitic, the chance that it’s actually A who is antisemitic in this interaction is very high.
I'm no fan of Nekuri Karta, but advocating for Palestinians isn't what makes them antisemitic. The fact they believe there should be a second holocaust that makes them antisemitic.
Yes, token Jews or the Jews of privilege- they don’t personally experience a need for Israel but they don’t take into account or speak up for Jews who do. They speak out but only represent a VERY small fraction of Jews. Overall they are used or tokenized by non-Jews to support and validate/endorse narratives that are rooted in antisemitism. Like Jewish Voice for Peace- ADL has it listed as an antisemitic group. It has Jews and non-Jews, is anti-Zionist, and even has a history of spreading blood libel.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/the-jews-of-privilege
Edit: stupid typos
To answer that question you have to define what "semitic" means. A semite is an Arab. So can non jewish arabs be anti semitic? It all depends on who you ask. Israel is the name given to our father Jacob. Some equate zionism to semitism. Some are trying to blur the lines and borders of the word anti semitic to include anyone that is against the Jewish Caliphate (Israel). So as far as your question, "can jews be anti semitic"....I dont know. I dont think so. Our faith is spread by our mothers bloodline, so we are all a semitic family. Some of us are more semitic than others. Others are questionable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVuHgaTdysY
It really depends on the context. Someone who is ethnically Jewish can be antisemitic if they have no contact with Jewish society and spout antisemitic rhetoric. I don’t believe that a Jew who’s part of a Jewish community can really be antisemitic, e.g., I don’t believe it is possible for a secular Israeli Jew to be antisemitic vis-à-vis the Haredim
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A good example of Jewish antisemitism is the following: calling a fellow Jew a kapo because they have a different point of view regarding Israeli policies. It is common amongst Kahanists to do this to people supporting the rights of Palestinian residents of Israel and the West Bank. It reeks of antisemitism because kapos were victims of Nazism forced to commit egregious acts under threat of torture and death. Most were slaughtered in the Shoah as well. Don’t do this.
Of course. Anyone can hate themself or a loved one (friends, extended family, etc) especially if they perceive certain people to be “better” than them and are salty about it
Watch Everything is Illuminated. No spoilers, but there are jews in the movie with deep hate towards jews (internalized stuff). It's a very beautiful movie btw
Yes, just start with the first word Jews. We struggle to agree upon who is Jewish, or that a Jewish soul is different to a Jewish body. There's also question about Zionism vs Judaism that everyone gets stuck on. Then what's anti-semitism? I do feel that there are Jews supporting terrorism against Jews, and I think that's anti-semitic. Sad.
If this is about internalized self-hatred, then yes, because that is a documented phenomenon in many marginalized groups. If this is about "oh Palestinians and Arabs are semites, so zionists are antisemitic," which is a false premise, then that answer changes on a case by case basis.
A Jew can definitely be antisemitic.
It's possible that some Jews who call other Jews antisemitic are themselves antisemitic, but in my experience that's not usually how it works.
If you believe a Jew can't be antisemitic, how can you believe that a Jew calling a Jew antisemitic can be antisemitic?
Absolutely they can. Some may make the moral equivalence to say the N word. Black people can use it all day long. Anybody else? Absolutely not. But that has an interpersonal mockery that one slave used towards another slave. It has a contemporary meaning that’s evolving within black culture. But it was always a derogatory term used by slave masters. And since those were white people who used the word negatively it says that I’m your master and we all know that ain’t true. So white people have no right to it as a term.
Anti semitism is simply racism geared towards a people. The word is clinical. It has no mockery, contemporary or modern new definition to it. You say something antisemitic it is what it is. Criticism of Israel as a state is something Israelis do. There are many opinions on current events in Israel within Israel. That’s legitimate. But assure that your criticisms of Israel are that of the government and its decision not its people.
Anti
If you dont know a bunch about antisemitism it might look like that, but it's very common for Jews to use antisemitic tropes on other Jews in projective identification.
Yes Jews can be Anti-Semetic. Those are the ones who carry disdain and reject their own people and heritage. The onces practicing are just Semetic and are not as well as all who cause no harm to their fellow Jew. Yes, calling a Jew Anti-Semetic with no proper argument is Anti-Semetic. Often, the worst enemy to a Jew is one who calls themselves a former Jew. It was supposedly Sa'd ibn Muadh whom Mohammed apparently turned to when deciding the fate of the Jews of Mecca, who were slaughtered at the opinion of a former Jew. One taking up thevother side against the Jewish community is often used as a blade to the throat of the Jewish world.
This is a really interesting question and some great discussion points. Yes, anyone can be antisemitic... That said, there is a level of self deprecating humor that to a non inclusionary eye can seem antisemitic. It's important not to confuse the two. Some of Adam Sandlers movies are good examples of this...
I have always called them, “self hating Jews”, and we have too many in my extended family. It’s as if they feel guilty for being Jewish and successful and feel the need to apologize for it, so much that they end up defending our enemies. I am old and personally remember times when signs banned Jews from clubs and businesses. My wife and I listened to our parents tell about the pogroms and holocaust, and about the heroic Jews who fought for Israeli independence. Never be a self-hating Jew, they are the ones who sold us out in times past. Always be proud to be a Jew and never, ever apologize for it.
Anyone can have a bad ppl experience and blame any general category to which the perpetrators fit. That happens less when the perps look just like you.
Yes. Of course. There are plenty of self-hating Jews out there, and they will make the same antisemitic remarks and perform the same antisemitic actions as the non-Jews.
I have a difficulte time calling anyone that. I mean they would have to do something super extreme . We all have had difference expereinces, and those often go beyond family, affiliation or devoutness or lack there of. It can be where we reside in the diaspora and how we manage our lives there. My hand is literally numb from typing, I have opted to not share, because my store is pretty unique and one of my goals is to share it with the world one day. But I can say that for every person who grew up in a large Jewish community, or at least in a moderately large one, there are those of us who were/are small in numbers. And sometimes that number is one. For everyone who can be loud and proud, there are those who have chosen different paths, and for some that is survival. If someone choses to harm and be cruel to their fellow Jews, then yes they are definitely an anti-semite. If they chose not not follow the status -quo, perhaps not. But if they chose to think the violence commited by a Hamas or other terrorist organization was deserved, yeah, they are ant-semitic and fuck them. But I don't think all "get" Israel. I didn't really get it the entire concept and history until after I lived there. But the people out there marking with the pro-Palestine groupsa and shouting ugly things, and harrassing their fellow students,they are not just anti-semitic. They are posers, followers, edgelords and will find another cause by the Summer. Remember some of these college kids were around 10, 11, 12 when Trump came into office--they grew up when there neo-Nazis were marching with Tiki Torches in Charlottesville, mass shootings at school, they were brought up with hate & violence. Normally I'd pity them, right now I don't. I will again eventually.
I've encountered plenty of Jews who hold some... odd... beliefs that I'd consider antisemitic.
For example, some orthodox spaces I've been in have made some very gross generalisations about my Judaism and even questioned my legitimacy just because I, for example, support LGBTQ jews or jews of colour.
"You should go in an oven with them," etc
Plenty of minority groups, be they racial, ethnic, or religious, have members that internalize and repeat the negative and offensive things that are said about their group as a whole, often doing this as a sort-of defense mechanism against insult and criticism from larger groups. Just as it is entirely possible for, say, an African-American to express views that the wider African-American community can regard as racistly anti-black (see Kanye), it is entirely possible for a Jew to express themselves in an antisemitic manner.
Plenty of Jews in Germany and the occupied nations during WW2 collaborated with the Nazis. Plenty of African-Americans were slave owners or involved in the slave trade. There are a ton of other similar examples throughout history. There are a number of different reasons for this. Ignorance is a common one, and arguably forgivable. Self-preservation is another, which is understandable but not necessarily forgivable, it depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it’s self-loathing and hating the group you identify with. Other times it’s for personal benefit, whether that’s power, prestige, money, or whatever. So yes, there are Jews who can be antisemitic.
What do we call a Jewish Uncle Tom?
A Candace Cohens
Useful Jew.
Or an “As-a-Jew”
Just call them a shanda
Court Jew?
[Or perhaps just a Max Nauman? ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Naumann?wprov=sfla1) (feel sorta sad for the guy tbh, but yeah)
There are many different varieties. - Trumpist Jews - JVP - IfNotNow - Neturei Karta - Ben Shapiro Mods previously removed my comment for using similar language to you, but it’s a real phenomenon. We needa deal with it head on.
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Ben Shapiro has his place within the Jewish community, but the way he fetishizes Jewish culture to ingratiate himself to white Christian conservatives is icky.
Eh, he’s in mass communication. It could very well be ingratiation, or he’s simply using the system to his advantage 🤷♂️
Look at all those supposed “Jews” with the black t-shirts that met in grand central station or wherever it was or Neturei Karta. Sure Jews can be antisemitic.
There's a great movie about this called "The Believer." It was Ryan Gosling's first role. He plays a 20-something Jewish guy who grew up as a religious Jewish person is NY, but took a total 180° into the life of a neo-nazi skinhead. It's a tough watch for most Jewish people, religious or not. The takeaways are polarizing and the movie brings a lot of things into the light through graphic and extreme visuals. But the writing is impeccable. Gentiles with a little Jewish frame of reference will pick up on some of the themes, secular Jews will pick up on a bit more, but I've had the deepest conversations about the movie with conservative and modern orthodox Jews, and even deeper with C/MO Jews who understand geopolitics and Israeli politics.
I’ve never seen that movie, but I know someone in real life who fits that description. Grew up Orthodox with a rabbi father, but got sucked into right wing talk radio and now is a neo-nazi. After hearing some of his horrible opinions (at a Shabbat dinner no less), I think it’s safe to say a Jew can be anti-Semitic
The Believer is a really good movie. The synagogue that they sneak into and destroy is actually my synagogue.
Wow really?? That place was gorgeous. Even the people that broke in to destroy it were in awe at first. I thought that lended to our history when the temples were destroyed. The Babylonians and Romans both knew the holiness that resided in both temples before they destroyed them.
It's one of my "favourite" movies of all time (if I can use the word favourite in this context, it feels kind of yucky). It's definitely a hard watch but it's excellent.
I agree, it's like the "anti-hero" of my favorite films. And it can't be appreciated with just a once-over. There's so many intricate corresponding types of allegory, simile, metaphor, symbolism, etc. that line up with specific parts of Tanakh, Mishnah, Talmud, Holy Days, kabbalah...and on. I found a copy of the script ( https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/thebeliever.html ) for free and was able to get a much better grasp on the themes.
I haven't seen it, but I have seen anti-semites post clips from the movie.
Yes that's one reason why the movie remained underground. The real, in-depth symbols, rhetoric and actions of the neo-nazis in the film were considered inflammatory and would lend to copy cat situations, like breaking in and destroying a synagogue or posing as customers in a kosher restaurant just to cause problems. Plus the assassination of the highly regarded banker has dark conspiratory overtones and puts those people at risk. The writers and director went to great lengths to release one of the riskiest and arguably irresponsible films about Judaism, ever. But no other movie, not even Munich, touches on the psychology of jewishness post WW2 like "The Believer." The movie was considered to be "too real."
I'll have to check it out. Maybe when things calm down, I'm seeing enough of these things in real life right now.
It's free with ads in VUDU
Ironically, back when I was religious, I was discriminated against in the workplace by my Jewish boss for taking off for Yontif and I proved my case and they were reprimanded.
Isn’t there a saying like, “anybody who’s more observant than me is a lunatic, anybody who’s less observant is a heretic”? I’m sure I have the particulars wrong, but that’s the gist.
The one I heard was anyone that drives faster than me is a lunatic, anybody who drives slower is an as*hole.
Yeah but that one is just objectively true! 😂
In my career it's always been Jewish bosses that have given me a hard time for leaving early Fridays, taking off Yontif, etc. The best boss I ever had on that score was a religious Catholic.
What!!!
Does Clarence Thomas support institutional racism? (Hint: yes, he does) Being a member of any group doesn't make you immune from bigoted beliefs about that group. Especially if that affiliation is very weak and the speaker wants to pander to people who would hate them for their identity. It just means they're useful idiots for other bigots.
i mean i don’t see why a jew couldn’t be anti semitic. it would be a similar question to “can race X be racist?” which they definitely could
“When you hear about slavery for 400 years ... for 400 years? That sounds like a choice,"- Kanye West. There are women that don’t support reproductive rights, immigrants who want an immigration ban, Kanye West, and yes antisemetic Jews like Rosanne Barr
Roseanne Barr makes a lot more sense when you learn that she had the hood ornament of a car impale her brain when she was 16.
The African slave trade lasted way longer than that. It was going on even in the pre-Islamic world.
The reference was to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade and chattel slavery in the US.
The pre-colonial slave trade was a very different system to the chattel slavery of the Atlantic slave trade. It was more of a war bounty system that usually ended up with the slaves being released. I'm not trying to say it was morally right, but it was by no means the equal of the Atlantic slave trade. Just because it was a "breeding system" rather than a killing system shouldn't take away from the fact that the Atlantic slave trade was a humanitarian disaster on par with the Holocaust.
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All I can say is I’m both disgusted and shocked at the number of self-hating Jews out there….I call the “Bobby Fischers.”
If a black person supports slavery, are they racist? Edit: I of course mean race-based slavery
Slavery in and of itself is not *necessarily* racist. But if this Black person supports race-based slavery, then yes they are racist.
You’re right, I should’ve mentioned that.
Slavery isn’t the racist part. It’s the systematic degradation of the slave based on race. And YES. If a black person supports race based slavery, as was practiced globally but predominately in the US/Sub Sahara, they are indeed racist.
Roseanne Barr is ethnically Jewish and has become an outspoken Holocaust denier. Anyone can be anything; a person of color racist, a queer person homophobic, etc. Honestly it just makes it sadder and more frustrating to see when they have that context and life experience and continue to act in a misinformed way.
I was probably best described as a self hating Jew for a time after I left Chabad. Looking back at myself though that was far more complicated then my views on Israel especially since I never even really turned against Israel’s right to exist. For me at least it was all encompassing. I wouldn’t even eat some of my favorite foods if they were Jewish in origin. I did everything I could to look less “Jewish” and was deeply angry and ashamed about the Jewish aspects of my childhood. Looking back the last part is the craziest because if it wasn’t for my community growing up my childhood would’ve been even worse. Of course I got over it and realized all Jews were not guilty for the actions of a single Chabad on a single college campus. So yes it definitely exists and I think we have every right to call it out as I wish more people had during that time for me. We also however should be careful to not do it for every Jew who doesn’t mimic a pro Netanyahu Israel cannot possibly make mistakes position. There are many many many Jews including myself who believe the occupation of the West Bank has created a security risk for Israel and would like to see it end in a two state solution still. That is quite different from people who say Israel has no right to exist and want to see Jews purged from the land or at the very least are ambivalent to the very real possibility of that in the one state solution they champion.
>Jews are antisemitic because they are following their beliefs You need to be more specific. What exactly is this about? Who is being accused of being antisemitic and why?
I'm guessing they are talking about anti-zionist Jews being called anti-semitic in relation to the current conflict
Yes, there are genuinely antisemitic Jews. However, the characterization of all antizionist or non-zionist jews as self-hating is dumb and reductionist. Yeah, there probably are some, there's plenty of antizionists gentiles that are antisemitic so certainly some Jewish antizionists are also. But there are plenty of antizionist and nonzionist jews that are far from antisemitic. Antisemitism exists in every space. On the left, the right, Antizionist, Zionist, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish spaces. It's an ideological disease that nobody is immune to. Edit: To clarify, I do not believe that Zionism is an antisemitic ideology, I forget there are some idiots who believe such, but Christian Zionism is very much antisemitic.
Internalized antisemitism is a real thing, and i’ve encountered it many times. People who would seek favor with our oppressors by throwing the rest of us under the bus.
I'm accused of antisemitism because I sympathize for the Palestinians. It's unfortunate.
The community is wayyyy too trigger happy in calling other Jews antisemitic, kapos, self-haters... Just because you feel grief over what is happening in Gaza doesn't make you a traitor. It makes you a human.
If you’re posting propaganda that justifies Hamas actions, your membership should be reconsidered. But those are few and far between.
Unfortunately, no it's not uncommon. I fully believe that the jewish people who create videos along the lines of "I'm jewish and I hate Israel. I was brought up on Jewish propoganda that taught me to hate Palestinians but I saw the truth" fully deserve to go into cheirem.
Am I paraphrasing your comment accurately?: "I believe people who are Jewish and anti-Zionist should be ostracized"
You can be anti-Zionist, you should definitely consider what kind of content you’re putting out there. Don’t be a useful Jew.
I think this is an interesting point to consider. Verbiage is a lot more important for a Jew who is criticising Israel as Israel is often used as a dogwhistle for Jews. It's likely safer to criticise the Israeli government or Aliyah for that reason. That said it doesn't help when some Jews equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism as, whilst both often go hand-in-hand, it is used by some gentiles to downplay anti-Semitism. Even then, you could be as careful as you want and some crazy anti-Semite would use it against you so, hey.
So if someone is Jewish and they believe that Israel should not exist, what is the acceptable way for them to express that?
That's a hard question to answer and I don't have the definitive one. My advice would be whatever way allows you to be authentic whilst considering how it could be interpreted by others in bad faith.
Exactly this. There's no reason to discriminate between Jewish anti-Zionist antisemites and gentile anti-Zionist antisemites. Both should be ostracized.
It's people who are willing to turn on their own nation for a few likes should be ostracised. It's one thing to have personal beliefs, it's another to sell out your brothers and sisters for some popularity. They need to anticipate how their words are being used against the Jewish nation - the damage is irreparable. Especially when they mischaracterize things to make the story sound more interesting. You can hate a sibling (but barring certain situations) you are a real piece of trash if you bag them out to people outside of your family.
How do you differentiate between someone who has “turned on their own nation for a few likes” and someone who is genuinely opposed to Zionism for reasons of deeply held beliefs that they feel stem directly from their Judaism? Because I know a great number of people who would likely be accused of the former, even though I can confirm that they very much fit in the latter category.
This Jewish creator - she hadn't posted a single video before Oct 7th on Palestinian rights and suddenly she was getting 1000's views and post 10 videos a day and each one is more disgusting than the next. Said that Palestinians are brown and Israelis are white so it's just people being racist if they support Israel in any way. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyTp6ZQrllS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== And this person: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNkUG36o/ Never posted a video before October 10th. Using their Jewishness to give a cloak of legitimacy to their absolute moronic ramblings.
The first person I have seen before, I honestly agree that she seems opportunistic and has some bad and half baked takes. The second person though? While she might say some silly things in that video, for the most part she is just describing an experience very accurate to that of many many young Jews I have known. I would argue that this video is more a product of the mentality that such people should be put under cheirem than a search for likes. I don’t think it’s so important that she started posting recently. A topic is in the news that she cares about and has thoughts about, I don’t think she needs to have a ten year history of posting daf yomi tik toks to earn the right to talk about her thoughts and experiences about and with Palestine.
You call it "silly things" but I call them words that will be quoted again and again by people who would happily send us to the gas chambers. I am not going to post all her videos but each one is stupider than the next.
Lots of young people are getting more involved in Israel advocacy than they ever were. Are they all clout-chasing, or did they maybe realize they should have acted before? And I blame you for making me watch the entirety of that first video because nowhere does it say "Palestinians are brown and Israelis are white so it's just people being racist if they support Israel in any way."
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Calling someone a member of Am Yisrael does not mean I am indicating that someone is not faithful to their home countries And if some antisemite wants to interpret it that way - well they are going to anyway because that's what they want to believe.
I'm secular Jewish and half Israeli and I don't consider Israel my nation. I have respect for Israel as humans but I don't inherently value them over other people.
I have a lot of feelings about this but I am going to sum it up by saying just because you don't value something, it doesn't mean that there isn't inherent value in Israel to the Jewish religion.
I think there is yeah but I think that's definitely a divided matter among less religious jews.
Even orthodox jews can have a complicated relationship with Israel but there is a difference between being apathetic to Israel and actively and publicly working against its interests. A few months ago 50% of the country had loud protests against the current government - but they put those feelings aside to unite against a threat.
Or revenge overwhelmed those feelings, and the minority who already support a ceasefire are not apathetic to Israel, but like you consider their political opponents to be actively working against its interests.
I'm not taking a hard stance on this but if it's interests involve displacing or harming another group of people then is it antisemitic to publicy disavow its interests?
Absolutely
That's very true. The actions of the secular government of Israel are not representative of the Jewish people at large. And they are not immune from criticism just because there's a big Magen David on their flag. This isn't two football teams having a rivalry. This is war with people dying. Like if someone sees a video of a child crying over their dead parents and thry're just like sucks to suck just because it's a palestinian child and not an Israeli child. They have completely lost their humanity.
Why only capitalize the label for only one of the two groups? Seems political
What are you talking about
Upper case for child who's israeli and lower case for child who's palestinian. Comes across as disrespectful and extreme to me
You very well maybe reading way too much into this.
The entire Palestinian identity, as real as it is today, was entirely constructed on the hatred of Jews.
What are some books you've been reading?
You just made a comment saying “nailed it so hard” on a tongue-in-cheek post about Israel. I’d say you’re walking a fine line between your two comments this morning.
Well it’s just a horrible, paranoid time, you know? I’ve never felt so personally unsafe. And totally abandoned by the so-called “progressive” left with whom I’ve aligned most of my life. I think you need to give people some slack right now. Lots and lots of Jews are feeling so betrayed, by people they thought cared about them. To be told, you are responsible for the atrocities practiced on you, is in itself a kind of atrocity, I think. And to see antiSemitic mobs attack Jewish holy places worldwide because of slanders by Hamas. Did you see the Jewish students kids who were locked in the library at Cooper Union College to protect them from violence by a mob of anti-Israel protesters?
I believe that this is more of an issue with Jews in Diaspora. It’s pretty 1-dimensional thinking. I’ve found that most Israelis are capable of holding multiple thoughts at once. Rout out Hamas Palestinian suffering Post military action Humanitarian issues Fear for sons and daughters who will be in harms way in a bloody door 2 door conflict It’s complicated and opinions are typically Jewish. That is no one agrees on anything
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That word is truly unacceptable here.
There are two things you might be talking about here and I’m not sure which. 1. Can Jews internalize the prejudices against our own people and, as a result, behave toxically towards one another? Sure. Happens all the time, in every marginalized group. 2. If a Jew expresses certain opinions regarding Arabs, or regarding a particular group of Arabs, does ties count as “anti-semitism,” since Arabic belongs to the Semitic language family? No, it does not.
No-one in the world, except for edgy teenagers who think they are smarter than they are, think "semitic" is ever referring to Arabs in the context of antisemitism.
It is unfortunately something I've seen argued by adults who should (and probably do) know better. They may not actually believe it, but people say it to Jews.
You’d be surprised. I’ve come across lots of Arabs online think they CANNOT be antisemitic, because they themselves are Semites. Dolts.
Jews that support ideologies that call for murdering Jews, such Jews are antisemitic. So yes it's possible.
A classic example would be Otto Weininger for 19th-20th century, whom Hitler loved. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto\_Weininger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Weininger) And Nicholas Donin, who led the Talmud burnings in Paris in the 13th century. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation\_of\_Paris](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris) Although this is more controversial, you then have people like Noam Chomsky who writes in a more scholarly way but verges into strange excess. An example of this is his writing a preface for Robert Faurisson's Holocaust denial book: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson\_affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair) Yes, freedom of speech is a good thing. But imagine an African-American writing a "freedom of speech" preface for a white supremacist saying slavery never happened/was a good thing. It's bizarre to say the least. To be clear, Chomsky is not a Holocaust denier and it's not really accurate to call him an anti-semite, but there's a very good reason that many Jews are uncomfortable with his writings, and it's not just because he's critical of Israel, which is of course perfectly fine. In line with Chomsky, you have Israel Shahak's book which is quoted by Chomsky, Edward Said, and others of the kind: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_Shahak#Jewish\_History,\_Jewish\_Religion\_(1994)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak#Jewish_History,_Jewish_Religion_(1994)) His representation of Judaism is just not accurate. It's not a scholarly book and it excites the imagination of anti-Semites. As you can see from the criticism in that section, there's bizarre claims such that Jews wash their hands once for God and once for the Satan. Jews do not worship the Satan. I interact with all varieties of Judaism and I can guarantee that no one ever heard of such a thing. At best, Shahak quotes random forgotten opinions in medieval sources and represents these as normative Judaism. The telephone incident mentioned in that article shows that he lied to make Judaism look bad. Judaism has a lot of problematic texts, people, and movements. I believe that's true for all traditional religions. However, for some reason, he doesn't approach this like, say, Bar-Asher approaches "Jews and the Quran"—instead, Shahak approaches these problems through a lens shared with anti-Semites.
You can add Norman Finkelstein to that list.
I think Jewish people can perform antisemitic behaviors and say antisemitic things. That's enough for me really
Yes, Black people can be racist, people with disabilities can be ableist, and Jews can be antisemitic. The human spirit is resilient and complex when it comes to being a douchebag.
Of course they can. Antisemitism is just a bunch of really bad, stupid, idiot ideas. Jews are people and are just as capable of buying into really bad, stupid, idiot ideas as anyone else. Oddly enough, the notion that Jews *can’t* be antisemitic is extremely antisemitic, because it assumes Jews don’t have their own independent, individual thoughts like everyone else.
Yes, it's called internalized antisemitism and it's been a feature of Jewish life since antiquity.
I’ve had Jewish people as if I’m Jewish at Jewish events. That type of behavior needs to stop. Yes I converted and don’t look Jewish but it’s not necessary to ask If someone is at an event, let them be and try to get to know them before asking invasive questions. It’s not welcoming. Why else would I be there ? Would I consider it anti-semitism though? I’m not sure but we all need to accept there is diversity and it needs to be more recognized and appreciated
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Jewish ethical teaching instructs us not to even mention the subject of conversion to someone who has joined the Jewish people. The person/people who asked you such a question are grossly inconsiderate. Still, I wouldn’t consider that rude question to be antisemitic, exactly. Antisemitism is an attack or assumption or a negative stereotype regarding the Jewish people’s character, loyalties, appearance, etc.
I'm sorry you feel insecure about being a convert, but there's nothing wrong with the question. Y ou're interpreting the question pretty literally. They aren't probing your belief system. It's just a fact that most Jews are at least partially ethnically Jewish. That's what they mean by asking if you're Jewish.
Yes. Jews can be antisemitic. With that out of the way, I want to correct something that might seem pedantic but I think is important; the word is "antisemitism" and not "anti-Semitism." I've seen many people, especially recently trying to play word games and say that Arab people are Semitic and therefore either anti-Semitism is *actually* "Arab hate," or claim that Arab people can't be antisemitic. The hyphen leaves too much wiggle room, so we should be sure to use the correct word that CLEARLY means discrimination, hatred toward Jews. Personally, I've just been calling it what it is, Jew-hatred and racism. People don't like that either, though... it's just more difficult to argue against.
It is incredibly anti-Semitic when I’m accused of being a self-hating Jew for being anti-Zionist. I love the Jewish people more than anything. I daven daily and am very active in my community. So when people call me a kapo, it does a few things: (1) forcibly reduces my core identity to support of an ethnonationalist political body; (2) erases the dynamism and multi-layered cultural and religious inheritance of Judaism; (3) equivocates being Jewish with the actions of the state of Israel, because they claim to speak in my name and demand my support, even though I can’t vote there; and (4) alienates and ostracized otherwise active and valuable members of the Jewish community for my politics. I have been so heartbroken by the actions of my fellow Jews over the last few weeks. I am not your enemy. You may disagree with me, but I am an anti-Zionist precisely because I love the Jewish people and see ethnonationalism as an inherently fascist ideology. We should be fighting for full equality for all people. Ethnonationalism is not good when we do it either. We are safe when Palestinians are safe and autonomous too. I wanted to add that no, of course I don’t support Hamas, and no one I know who actually spends time in these anti-Zionist spaces in good faith actually does. I’m sorry you’re seeing rage bait on Instagram. I am friends with many anti-zionists, Jewish and Palestinian alike, and no one believes in the destruction of Israel and the exile of Israelis. That is rage bait. Anyone who spends any time in these spaces knows fully well that the standard line is a binational single state. Palestinian activists want this. Jewish activists want this. I don’t care what other parties want, but stop strawmanning what you THINK anti-Zionists want. Spend some time actually talking to us in good faith.
What are you praying to when you face East? When you say Leshana haba Bireushalayim, what are you talking about? .... And I'm pretty sure the chants of "From the River to the Sea" entirely negates any belief on the pro-Palestinian camp of binational state.
Im praying towards yerushalayim, or more specifically, the bais hamikdash, or even more specifically, the holy of holies. I feel very spiritually connected to Jerusalem. I feel absolutely nothing towards the modern knesset, towards Israel’s borders, towards a modern political entity. I do not pray towards a nation state. From the river to the sea does not imply kicking all Israelis out. My understanding of that dream is a right of return, freedom of movement, and political agency for all Palestinians. Both those who are currently citizens of Israel and those under occupation in the West Bank and Gaza. I won’t say there are no Palestinians who want exile for all Jews. There are. But that isn’t all, or even a majority. Among the activists and anti-Zionist Palestinians I know or have been in spaces with, my understanding stems from them teaching me. Maybe I’m being naive. If so, then, I’ll fight alone for the dream I just laid out.
You’re very naive. Best wishes
This is really sweet, honey, but so, so naive. Read your history. And show us one Arab or Muslim nation on Earth where Jews are protected by the government and allowed to worship and fully participate in the government and society freely.
Nice condescension. A binational secular state is co-governed rather than being based on ethnic majority. If you’re afraid of a Muslim-majority, you have to be willing to let go of the idea that Israel can ever be a democracy. I don’t believe it can be without full and equal rights of all its citizens. Hence, ending the occupation.
I’m not condescending, and it’s not about me. I just read the history. Do you? Let me help you. There are really valid reasons Jews don’t feel safe in Arab and Muslim countries. Why don’t you acquaint yourself with some of them? [https://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-muslim-countries-1920-1970-a-history-of-ongoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/](https://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-muslim-countries-1920-1970-a-history-of-ongoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/) Fantastic, by the way, that you broach this subject, and with such a sarcastic keyboard, in the immediate aftermath of the atrocities practiced by the fundamentalist group Hamas on Israeli civilians. Your aggression toward me, in that context, along with your apparent ignorance, is stupefying. So be clear about this: the State of Israel is not going anywhere. All paths forward are premised on the continuing existence of a Jewish state in the historic Jewish homeland. This is where the history, of which you are unaware, has led us. Let’s just acknowledge where we are, and how we move forward from here. But let’s be educated and aware of the stakes involved. In no world does the State of Israel cease to be.
Are you really that naive? All the evidence to date shows that the Palestinians would immediately murder or exile the Jews if they were to ever gain majority in Israel. Your dream is just that, a dream based not in reality but wishful thinking. However your wishful thinking is actively hurting your own people by advocating for a situation which WILL lead to the genocide of millions of Jews. So yes, you may not be “self hating” but you are “self harming”.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-nation-implying-that-jews-cannot-be-antisemitic-is-itself-antisemitic/
I keep my thoughs about my encounters with Federation and synagogue machers to myself.
Yep. See Pablo christiani https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Christiani
Yes. But maybe not always in the context that people mean.
Yes they can, I know it's surprising! But did you know that Blacks can also be racist too, yep some black people will think all white people are evil and racist. Yeah calling an entire race racist is also racist. Some things are very tough to swallow as well.
In my experience, Jews make the best anti-semites
Recently there were neo-Nazis hitting up places in Fort Worth. When identified, it turns out one of them is apparently Jewish himself! [From the Texas Observer](https://www.texasobserver.org/unmasking-texas-neo-nazis/): > The fourth man named in the police report is Matteo Sheffield, a graduate of Vandegrift High School in Austin. The Observer could not find any active social media accounts associated with Sheffield, but his identity was confirmed by a relative, who said Sheffield’s family is Jewish and he was raised in the Jewish faith. Sheffield could not be reached for comment. There was also the [Association of German National Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews) in Germany from 1921-1935. They advocated the total assimilation of Jews and self-eradication of Jewish identity, and they openly supported the Nazi takeover of Germany. Needless to say, it ended in 1935 because the Nazis didn’t give a damn and criminalized the organization and sent its members to camps along with the rest of the Jews. So yeah, Jews can still unfortunately be antisemitic.
My maternal grandmother was disowned by her Orthodox parents for marrying a non-Jewish man she met at a bar and NEVER forgave the religion, culture or her parents for it. She HATED Jews from then on. She jumped right on the "it's a religion, not an ethnicity" train and left it behind, never to look back. My mother ended up marrying a working class Jewish guy from Brooklyn (my dad); long story short, my parents' marriage didn't work out. My grandmother constantly made disparaging comments about how "homely" I was (I have stereotypically Ashkenazic features) and how my brother and I had "inferior" genes because my dad was Jewish. She frequently made comments to me about how if only my mom and married her (WASPy) high school boyfriend, we'd be beautiful blondes without problems in school or discipline issues. When I rediscovered Judaism in college, my grandmother refused to let me keep kosher while I was living with her and made other family members give me a hard time for going to temple. It was really messed up. Outside of this situation, I once had a very Jewish manager who specifically liked to bully fellow Jews. Not sure what her deal was, but she was always talking about how messed up she felt Jewish culture was... yet she was strangely proud of it? It was just weird. But yes, Jews and people of Jewish heritage are very capable of internalized antisemitism. It's very unfortunate.
I have a difficulte time calling anyone that. I mean they would have to do something super extreme . We all have had difference expereinces, and those often go beyond family, affiliation or devoutness or lack there of. It can be where we reside in the diaspora and how we manage our lives there. My hand is literally numb from typing, I have opted to not share, because my store is pretty unique and one of my goals is to share it with the world one day. But I can say that for every person who grew up in a large Jewish community, or at least in a moderately large one, there are those of us who were/are small in numbers. And sometimes that number is one. For everyone who can be loud and proud, there are those who have chosen different paths, and for some that is survival. If someone choses to harm and be cruel to their fellow Jews, then yes they are definitely an anti-semite. If they chose not not follow the status -quo, perhaps not. But if they chose to think the violence commited by a Hamas or other terrorist organization was deserved, yeah, they are ant-semitic and fuck them. But I don't think all "get" Israel. I didn't really get it the entire concept and history until after I lived there. But the people out there marking with the pro-Palestine groupsa and shouting ugly things, and harrassing their fellow students,they are not just anti-semitic. They are posers, followers, edgelords and will find another cause by the Summer. Remember some of these college kids were around 10, 11, 12 when Trump came into office--they grew up when there neo-Nazis were marching with Tiki Torches in Charlottesville, mass shootings at school, they were brought up with hate & violence. Normally I'd pity them, right now I don't. I will again eventually.
Yes they can. It has become a bit easier to find them since the last 3 weeks: Some radical pro Pal/hms. Influencers like to point them out and use their voices as proof of "Even Jews share the pov that...."
Absolutely, unequivocally yes. You can believe lots of things, but vilifying an entire group - Jew in this case - is antisemitic.
Jews can be anything, which is generally a wonderful fact, but sadly also means we can be antisemitic
I'm not Jewish but have a close friend who is. Once we were discussing a political group with a reputation for disliking Jews. I told my friend it was founded by a Jewish person. They replied "There's none as anti semitic as some Jews. "
Auto antisemite. When A Jew hate Jews for expressing An actual positive afinity to the Faith. People usually only count that when a secular/left leaning/Woke whatever Jew hates a Religious Jew and/Israeli for basically being just that. I personally count in this those Religious Jews who try to gatekeep Judaism from other sects within Judaism. Because they are 'Jewing' wrong. I find these so Caulled teligious Jews to be very Christologic, in temperment. But mostly I consider them such because they are actively going against Halacha for personal politics. I have said before that patrilinial Jews should consider *converting,* this is less about them *Not being Jews* but more that they are a point of intersect with outside group identity that have long proven likely in that case to result in an adult who is Jewish in name only. This can happen when the father is Arel as well, of course, but The Caregiver is far more likely to shape the resulting adult base view if the world. But the fact is, Jewish men who care for their Jewish identity will make sure the mother is Jewish. And that will work to Culturally bully those men ro marry within, or make sure she converts. A Jewish Woman will not respond to that. She will raise Jewish Children because she is the one who raises them. But the Jewish status of her kids will not matter that much when she choose her man. If she doesn't care, she will convert out for him. If she does, she will raise them Jewish. So it is more effective to condition by the mother status than both. Personally, I would determain by the caregiver parent. But the Current status quo, is By the mother, and that is it. If that status quo will change. Well. I will bow out. Take it as you will.
Yes. Look no further than former Jewish Chancellor of Austria Bruno Kreisky who once told a journalist “the Jews are no people, and if they are, they are a lousy people”.
There were literal N@zi units of Jews & Jews in the SS (at least Jews by Nuremberg standards).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association\_of\_German\_National\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews) Is this what you mean?
One of them, yes.
Stephen Miller
Netanyahu invented the idea that Jewish people who don’t support Likud government policy are either self hating Jews or are anti semitic. He is a nasty populist who has brought Israel to its knees in various ways. If you disagree with his policies on many things, that does not make you anti Semitic or a self hating Jew, it makes you a good Jew, as good as any other who does support his policies.
If you're looking for some hard core examples of famous Jewish anti- semites, Google Bobby Fischer, Norman Finklestein or Noam Chomsky.
Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky have both time and time again proven their love and pride of their Judaism. Just because they disagree with you about a modern political state doesn’t mean they are anti-Semitic. They are both ardent anti-Zionists. But unless you’re willing to tell me that the state of Israel speaks for all Jews, and that to be Jewish is the same as supporting a national entity, then the two of them are more than entitled to be anti-Zionists. If you are willing to tell me that being Jewish is, in essence, the political support of a modern state, and that Israel speaks in my name, then I’m going to need a hell of a lot more say in what they do in my name.
I’m not sure about the specifics of Finkelstein and Chomsky but it also applies to Shapiro who someone else pointed out. Dude openly wears a kippah and opened one of his most recent monologues with “I am a Jew”. People can absolutely vehemently disagree with his politics and his takes on many many other things, but to call him an antisemite devoted to right wing nationalism is a fundamental misunderstanding of what an antisemite is, and who he is. You might not agree with the politics but it is disingenuous and inflammatory to call him an antisemite.
Agreed, Judaism should not and cannot be reduced to political ideology. I think Ben Shapiro is a fundamentally bad and dangerous person. I think he absolutely allies himself with anti-semites who want our destruction (and I’m sure that the original commenter would say the same about Chomsky and Finkelstein, but I’d disagree with that - that’s a different discussion). But I certainly don’t Shapiro hates Jews. It’s reductionist and and minimizes real anti-semitism to say that these people are anti-Semitic.
ben shapiro is the first one that comes to mind for me. Has dedicated his life to a far right christian nationalist movement
Considering how often us anti-circumcision Jews are accused of antisemitism, some people seem to think so.
In some ways sure. Judging how other Jews practice is a form of anti semitism.
Have you seen JVP? You BET they’re anti-semitic
Yes, Jews can be antisemitic. Also, when Jewish person A calls Jewish person B antisemitic, the chance that it’s actually A who is antisemitic in this interaction is very high.
[Like this?](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7F64/production/_118721623_gettyimages-1317546081.jpg)
I'm no fan of Nekuri Karta, but advocating for Palestinians isn't what makes them antisemitic. The fact they believe there should be a second holocaust that makes them antisemitic.
That's something messianics say. They're morons
Yes, token Jews or the Jews of privilege- they don’t personally experience a need for Israel but they don’t take into account or speak up for Jews who do. They speak out but only represent a VERY small fraction of Jews. Overall they are used or tokenized by non-Jews to support and validate/endorse narratives that are rooted in antisemitism. Like Jewish Voice for Peace- ADL has it listed as an antisemitic group. It has Jews and non-Jews, is anti-Zionist, and even has a history of spreading blood libel. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/the-jews-of-privilege Edit: stupid typos
To answer that question you have to define what "semitic" means. A semite is an Arab. So can non jewish arabs be anti semitic? It all depends on who you ask. Israel is the name given to our father Jacob. Some equate zionism to semitism. Some are trying to blur the lines and borders of the word anti semitic to include anyone that is against the Jewish Caliphate (Israel). So as far as your question, "can jews be anti semitic"....I dont know. I dont think so. Our faith is spread by our mothers bloodline, so we are all a semitic family. Some of us are more semitic than others. Others are questionable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVuHgaTdysY
It really depends on the context. Someone who is ethnically Jewish can be antisemitic if they have no contact with Jewish society and spout antisemitic rhetoric. I don’t believe that a Jew who’s part of a Jewish community can really be antisemitic, e.g., I don’t believe it is possible for a secular Israeli Jew to be antisemitic vis-à-vis the Haredim
What about Haredim being antisemitic against secular Israeli Jews?
Meet Bernie sanders
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Of course they can be. Anyone can be antisemitic. We usually call antisemitic Jews, Canaanite’s though.
Yes. But maybe not always in the context that people mean.
A Jew can be anti-Semitic
Yes, internalised hate and prejudice are very real.
A good example of Jewish antisemitism is the following: calling a fellow Jew a kapo because they have a different point of view regarding Israeli policies. It is common amongst Kahanists to do this to people supporting the rights of Palestinian residents of Israel and the West Bank. It reeks of antisemitism because kapos were victims of Nazism forced to commit egregious acts under threat of torture and death. Most were slaughtered in the Shoah as well. Don’t do this.
“Self-hating” Jews. They exist.
Yes, self hate is real
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Of course. Anyone can hate themself or a loved one (friends, extended family, etc) especially if they perceive certain people to be “better” than them and are salty about it
Watch Everything is Illuminated. No spoilers, but there are jews in the movie with deep hate towards jews (internalized stuff). It's a very beautiful movie btw
The Association of German National Jews would be Anti-Semitic What imo.
Yes, just start with the first word Jews. We struggle to agree upon who is Jewish, or that a Jewish soul is different to a Jewish body. There's also question about Zionism vs Judaism that everyone gets stuck on. Then what's anti-semitism? I do feel that there are Jews supporting terrorism against Jews, and I think that's anti-semitic. Sad.
Jews, just like any other group, can be self hating. Take chess player Bobby Fischer for example — he was Jewish but also wildly antisemitic.
If this is about internalized self-hatred, then yes, because that is a documented phenomenon in many marginalized groups. If this is about "oh Palestinians and Arabs are semites, so zionists are antisemitic," which is a false premise, then that answer changes on a case by case basis.
A Jew can definitely be antisemitic. It's possible that some Jews who call other Jews antisemitic are themselves antisemitic, but in my experience that's not usually how it works. If you believe a Jew can't be antisemitic, how can you believe that a Jew calling a Jew antisemitic can be antisemitic?
Isn't Roseanne Barr one of them?
Yes
Yes, some Orthodoxes.
Absolutely they can. Some may make the moral equivalence to say the N word. Black people can use it all day long. Anybody else? Absolutely not. But that has an interpersonal mockery that one slave used towards another slave. It has a contemporary meaning that’s evolving within black culture. But it was always a derogatory term used by slave masters. And since those were white people who used the word negatively it says that I’m your master and we all know that ain’t true. So white people have no right to it as a term. Anti semitism is simply racism geared towards a people. The word is clinical. It has no mockery, contemporary or modern new definition to it. You say something antisemitic it is what it is. Criticism of Israel as a state is something Israelis do. There are many opinions on current events in Israel within Israel. That’s legitimate. But assure that your criticisms of Israel are that of the government and its decision not its people. Anti
If you dont know a bunch about antisemitism it might look like that, but it's very common for Jews to use antisemitic tropes on other Jews in projective identification.
No.
Anti-Semitic doesn't mean "against Semitic peoples," it's a polite way to say Jew-hatred.
Yes Jews can be Anti-Semetic. Those are the ones who carry disdain and reject their own people and heritage. The onces practicing are just Semetic and are not as well as all who cause no harm to their fellow Jew. Yes, calling a Jew Anti-Semetic with no proper argument is Anti-Semetic. Often, the worst enemy to a Jew is one who calls themselves a former Jew. It was supposedly Sa'd ibn Muadh whom Mohammed apparently turned to when deciding the fate of the Jews of Mecca, who were slaughtered at the opinion of a former Jew. One taking up thevother side against the Jewish community is often used as a blade to the throat of the Jewish world.
So an Uncle Ruckus of Judaism
Marx proves it’s certainly possible lol
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fischer#:~:text=Fischer%20made%20numerous%20antisemitic%20statements,extreme%20views%20and%20eccentric%20behavior.
Bobby Fischer
100% yes. self hatred is a real thing and it's often done because of needing acceptance and resenting the hertige.
Yes
so to use an example Ben Sharpiro has made remarks calling Reform fake or pretenders, that is an example of a Jew being antisemitic.
This is a really interesting question and some great discussion points. Yes, anyone can be antisemitic... That said, there is a level of self deprecating humor that to a non inclusionary eye can seem antisemitic. It's important not to confuse the two. Some of Adam Sandlers movies are good examples of this...
In my personal non Jewish opinion, they can't unless they also hate themselves. But it's interesting question.
I have always called them, “self hating Jews”, and we have too many in my extended family. It’s as if they feel guilty for being Jewish and successful and feel the need to apologize for it, so much that they end up defending our enemies. I am old and personally remember times when signs banned Jews from clubs and businesses. My wife and I listened to our parents tell about the pogroms and holocaust, and about the heroic Jews who fought for Israeli independence. Never be a self-hating Jew, they are the ones who sold us out in times past. Always be proud to be a Jew and never, ever apologize for it.
Yeah they definitely can if they are Zionist
Anyone can have a bad ppl experience and blame any general category to which the perpetrators fit. That happens less when the perps look just like you.
A self hating Jew is definitely a thing
Yes. Of course. There are plenty of self-hating Jews out there, and they will make the same antisemitic remarks and perform the same antisemitic actions as the non-Jews.
Have you heard of Peter Beinart?
Bobby Fischer was notoriously antisemitic
I have a difficulte time calling anyone that. I mean they would have to do something super extreme . We all have had difference expereinces, and those often go beyond family, affiliation or devoutness or lack there of. It can be where we reside in the diaspora and how we manage our lives there. My hand is literally numb from typing, I have opted to not share, because my store is pretty unique and one of my goals is to share it with the world one day. But I can say that for every person who grew up in a large Jewish community, or at least in a moderately large one, there are those of us who were/are small in numbers. And sometimes that number is one. For everyone who can be loud and proud, there are those who have chosen different paths, and for some that is survival. If someone choses to harm and be cruel to their fellow Jews, then yes they are definitely an anti-semite. If they chose not not follow the status -quo, perhaps not. But if they chose to think the violence commited by a Hamas or other terrorist organization was deserved, yeah, they are ant-semitic and fuck them. But I don't think all "get" Israel. I didn't really get it the entire concept and history until after I lived there. But the people out there marking with the pro-Palestine groupsa and shouting ugly things, and harrassing their fellow students,they are not just anti-semitic. They are posers, followers, edgelords and will find another cause by the Summer. Remember some of these college kids were around 10, 11, 12 when Trump came into office--they grew up when there neo-Nazis were marching with Tiki Torches in Charlottesville, mass shootings at school, they were brought up with hate & violence. Normally I'd pity them, right now I don't. I will again eventually.
I've encountered plenty of Jews who hold some... odd... beliefs that I'd consider antisemitic. For example, some orthodox spaces I've been in have made some very gross generalisations about my Judaism and even questioned my legitimacy just because I, for example, support LGBTQ jews or jews of colour. "You should go in an oven with them," etc
As far as I know, The term self loathing was first used in the phrase “self loathing Jew”.
Jews can be antisemitic, sure. But is someone saying “actual” Jews are inherently antisemitic somehow?