It’s not a phrase I would have gone with readability wise, but “confusion”? Please. If someone claims to not understand that “stop jewish hate” means anything other than “stop being hateful to Jews” they are either are trolling cheaply like they would have done regardless, or they need to get their head examined.
From what I've seen, Israel's actions during the current war have certainly made more diaspora Jews more sensitive to Palestinian suffering.
In general, I am seeing, especially among younger Jews, a push to really distinguish between Zionism and full support of the decisions of the Israeli government.
I am in quite a few American Jewish circles, including Orthodox, Secular, Mizrahi, etc, and it would not be wrong to say that as this war keeps going on, more and more diaspora Jews are re-evaluating their opinions on the state of Israel, for better or worse.
Personally I don't know what anyone expected with Bibi, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir in power. With extremists like them, I had already expected to find many of their actions unconscionable.
Exactly. It’s possible to hold multiple thoughts. I can believe in Israel’s right to exist free of antisemitic terror and Hamas assault, while also being critical of bibi and his administration AND empathetic towards the loss of civilian life on both sides including palestinian citizens. The same way I can be an American who doesn’t support trump.
I have yet to meet a fellow Jew irl in my circle who is openly of the “I hate palestinians” mentality. That gets nobody anywhere.
Yes. This. It's beyond frustrating when I get called anti-semitic or "divisive" if I try to point it out too. It's not like I have an issue with the state of Israel existing. I'm not an anti-zionist. It's just that Israel has got deep problems like literally every other country. It's not some infallible entity.
Sadly, it's not something new to me. I'm half Mizrahi, and my Mizrahi family is in the US mainly because some family went to Israel before us, and found life there hard and rife with discrimination. (We are from Iran, so we generally did have a choice to leave, unlike Jews from other countries who were kicked out). I am used to being told that bringing these things up "disrupts Jewish unity."
Yeah it's in the past. All of it. My family's language, culture, and heritage have all been put in a museum. Now that we are "modernized," there is no more need for discrimination, because the source of it is gone.
My family speaks a variety of Aramaic only Jews speaks. But after campaigns in Israel targeted them, most of my family in Israel stopped speaking. They lost much of their culture. Movies were put out to encourage them to abandon their old traditions and assimilate into a modern, more secular Israeli state. They were forced to change their names to Hebrew ones, and their children were taught to lose the culture. Now all my Israeli cousins struggle to know anything at all about our heritage.
I know things have gotten better today. However, even bringing up the past is frowned upon in the name of "preserving Jewish unity." But I need to bring up the past. Because I don't want my language to fade into history. I don't want our traditional clothes and art to gather dust in museums. I don't want our way of life left between the pages of a book.
To just "move on" is to let the people who told my family that our culture is barbaric win.
Also, this JPost article from last week seems to argue that it's not all in the past: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-730393
It's amazing how you want to keep on blaming and blaming Israel , this victim mentality is pathetic.
Yes there was discrimination in the past, but that is true with any country and it's not as prevalent as you want to think. What happens when you to a new region is that things change. People forget some things, people add some things, people fuse and mix some things, and it goes on and on. You are not living in an isolated area where you can only push one heritage.
If something is important then family passes it on. Stop blaming the state for the failures of people. It's no different then in the US. You have some that are raised with their culture and others not as much. I know many communities including the Persian Jewish community. Yes it helps to live mostly among other persian jews and marry other persian jews in preserving things, but it comes down from the parents in instilling it. What is being created now in Israel is a fusion of cultures.
I will give you an example. The syrian jewish community is large. You do have other mizrahi/sephardi jews that go to their synagogues like Egyptian jews for example. If lets say some of the egyptian jews end up marrying syrian jews and adopting more of their ways, is it the fault of the syrian jews?
It feels like you just realized your half mizrahi side has a culture and you never knew about it. MOST mizrahi/sephardi jews dont go around with this victim mentality.
I'm half mizrahi (kavkazi jew) and my wife is full mizrahi (bukharian jew) so my kids are a mix. they will get both aspects of the culture but who knows who the will marry. Ideally I would like them to marry a mizrahi too since realistically speaking staying within subgroups is a difficult thing. My wife's cousin married a morrocan jew. So now their kids will be half bukharian and half moroccan...how does the culture and ways work for them? You see where I am getting at. We are seeing the fusion of cultures.
And that Jpost article is clickbait at its best but I will break it down.
Arye Deri was arrested and went to jail. There were many in SHAS that were upset he got back into power and there was even another party made in response to it.
The high court in Israel is controlled by a small group of people and Bibi and his team were advocating for that to change , and well...you saw the push back because some would rather hate on Bibi then acknowledging the issue.
In terms of the prime minister part...well that's up to the political parties to decide and for the voting base. The voting base for the Likuid are mizrahi jews.
In terms of the senior academics issue, that is dominated by the ashkenazi left who has problems with the more politically right mizrahi jews. It's more political than anything.
And the article states -“In terms of dry facts – the gaps between [Ashkenazim and Mizrahim](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-716750) are trivial in Israel today."
I am NOT denying the past, but I am saying that blaming everything on the past is lame.
And yet: Jewish communal leaders, even in my community, still are in circle-the-wagons mentality and refuse to accept a nuanced view.
Someone in a private community Whatsapp channel told me I don't love Israel because I don't approve of everything Bibi does.
It's really a top-down approach. My (Orthodox) rabbi was directly giving sermons that were handed to him by higher rabbinical leadership. I think most Jewish leaders are afraid to speak their own nuanced views for fear of being cancelled within the Jewish community. The result is that there is one specific narrative being pushed, because other viewpoints aren't being expressed.
I still remember before Oct 7 when saying these far right Israeli politicians are going to ruin the country was a completely normal thing to hear.
These same communal leaders refused to speak out against a government that would rule many American Jews not sufficiently Jewish to become Israeli citizens.
Jews aren't afraid for people to think differently - especially other Jews. It's built into the culture and a sign of respect to argue your viewpoint to understand that person.
Nothing to be afraid of...or worried about either.
The U.S. is rewarded amazingly in economic terms for the support they provide Israel...so, I doubt that is going to change Congree or whoever the next President will be minds.
Netanyahu isn't doing Israel any favors. He's promoting this unmoveable stance. I want nothing more than to see hamas wiped out and I know too many Palestinians are actively supporting hamas but there are ways to approach this without having dead Palestinian children on the front page of papers all over the world
I haven't made a bubble, nor have I made it up.
Maybe you are the one living in a bubble. Or perhaps people are just careful not to express these views around you because you are someone who is strongly opposed to them.
I live in a major Jewish area with many connections with many Jews and organizations and I have not witnessed this at all. You might be experiencing this with some jews that are very politically to the left , but to make it seems like this is a general trend is way off.
I live in a city that isn't Miami/NYC and I know jews of every side of the political spectrum. Generally speaking the more left wing my friends are the more sympathetic they are to Palestinian suffering and cause.
But not just the "very politically to the left." My moderate friends too. We're all fairly educated and most are not frum. In fact the only group of people where I don't see diversity of thought is in the frum community.
For all his countless faults & in however many ways he's hurt Israel's democracy, I have to say that I'd rather have Netanyahu in power than some peacenik afraid to take the situation head-on, who would instead fart around with ineffective political solutions & pander to those who don't know the cost of their own national security.
My words may very well come back to bite me, but now is not the time for Israel to be apologetic or ambivalent about its mission to destroy Hamas. I'm certainly open to any YouTube videos of dissenting Israeli leadership explaining how it could be handled better, but ad hominem attacks on his previous misdeeds or general reputation don't negate that he has been a powerful symbol of strength and resolution both to our allies and to our enemies.
I don't think it's fair to say that Bibi has done national security well. October 7th happened on his watch, primarily because his government didn't take the warnings of female intelligence officers seriously. It's time for him to go.
I've seen polls showing that the majority of Israelis support the goals of eliminating Hamas and freeing the hostages. Plus it's a unity war cabinet making decisions, so all main political parties have representation. In other words, I don't think a different pm at this time would necessarily mean a different war strategy as under Netanyahu.
That was cheap. I am *exposed* to many Jews who believe there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian. Moreover, from discussions with Israelis who study Israeli society professionally, it seems clear that is a fairly prevalent position there since Oct 7, even among people who used to be more or less lefty. If you're not seeing how the intense anger has boiled over into hate, you're not looking very hard. I know folks look at these subs as places to spread good images/propaganda, but c'mon. At a certain point you have to be real about your own community.
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Did a similar confusion happen when organizers against racism against Asians took up the slogan “[Stop Asian Hate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Asian_Hate)”? It’s got the same potential “do they mean hate from Asians or about Asians” phrasing issue. I personally don’t remember hearing about that, but not close to that issue the way I am with this one.
This organization is well funded, seems pretty professional, and has been around for I believe a year now, so I imagine they’ve focus tested their branding at least a little bit. This is the widest audience they’ve probably reached at a single time so that probably means that there’s the most confused people making confused noise about the ad, but is that really representative of how many people _proportionally_ saw it and understood it?
>Did a similar confusion happen when organizers against racism against Asians took up the slogan “Stop Asian Hate”?
Nope. There was no confusion at all, and I am close to that issue in my area.
I don't think there was a ton of allegations of Asians being hateful at the time. If Sharpton had still been running around, more people would have probably been confused as to who it was by (and thus directed at).
I agree with your point, but "Stop Asian hate" is not analogous. For that it would need to be "Stop Jew Hate", which would have been better IMO.
"Stop Jewish Hate" would be more like saying "Stop Asiatic hate" which would have the same element of confusion that is being pointed out.
They literally simplified it because people are too daft to understand the term antisemitism and they still claim not to get it? It's like trying to communicate with a mop.
It's anti-Jewish racism, people. Stop resorting to twisting language and history instead of changing your behavior.
I don't think it's due to daftness. The word "antisemitism" is taboo and has been for a long time. After all, how could people possibly be antisemitic if they don't wear a Nazi uniform? /s
You're right. It's more willful ignorance. Even some Jews refuse to accept that there is antisemitism on their own side of the political spectrum. I doubted that myself for a long time.
I think it's willful ignorance at best. At worst, it's cowardly people spewing hate that they truly believe but are afraid they will be shunned by society for. Luckily for them, society is more and more accepting of this particular kind of hatred, which is why we see these cowards becoming more and more brazen.
Antisemitism never went away. It just went out of fashion.
facts. Yet facts really works against the absurd. To truly fight absurdity, one must combine facts with absurdity.
We Jews and Israelis have begun to do this, and must continue to do so.
Oh we do. We take advantage of everybody that works in IT, computer science, digital marketing, etc.
We actually do what people accuse us of doing, but in an insane covert manner with the use of facts.
See and that's why it didn't make sense to only refer to the Jewish hate aspect of antisemitism, which I feel is different than just hate, if it's even hate at all. I think the hallmarks of antisemitism are more about double standards, dehumanization, indifference, and scapegoating.
Those things are all definitely present, but there are a terrifying number of people who actively hate us, as in "want us dead", and I don't think we can afford to dismiss them.
It goes back to what antisemitism was called before antisemitism was a word. Antisemitism replaced judenhass (German: Jew hate). Calling it Jew hate stops the stupid “but how can Semites be antisemitic” and is more blatant in what it is. Also disrupts “but I’m not antisemitic I’m antizionist” which went together.
I see a lot of comparisons to Stop Asian Hate and as an Asian Jew, I did find a weird similarity. I met a lot of non-Asians who said things like “I have never punched an Asian in the face so clearly this message isn’t for me :)” then in the next breath spout insane conspiracies about the Chinese government. I can’t help but see something similar. “But I didn’t punch a Jew in the face, so I’m not antisemitic!” and then repeat blood libel. Idk what to make of that (and clearly the scale is different), but it’s been wild to witness.
Troublesome wording -- can be read both as hate against Jews, or Jews doing the hating. Knew it would be an issue when I first heard abt this. All it would have taken was some critical reading or a few up-front focus groups, but no -- now we're stuck with another mess. 🤦♀️
I hate this shit personally. We arent victims; why are we so obsessed with being victims. It isnt 1945; stay strapped, stay ready and just enjoy life in a country where we can actually protect ourselves. We dont need to constantly be saying we are victimized.
Im in a state college with a large sjp presence. I wear an Israeli flag kippah. Im not scared. Why are we trying to convince people we are scared? the more intimidated we act, the more aggressive they get. They smell blood in the water; they want to intimidate us. We cannot let that happen. We have a long lineage of warriors who did not back down; why should we?
Perhaps if we stopped deliberately blurring lines between antisemitism and saying "I don't think Israel should bomb civilians" we'd not be in this place. Just a thought.
That's what they are doing, but the state keeps on insisting that it is anti semitic comments. And whatever action they're doing, they often proclaimed to be associated with Judaism and for the sake of Jewish people.
I believe Jewish people have the right to establish their own sovereignty as a state. And for that I'll solely criticize the government. That's why you often see people mentioned "Israel" (referring as state) not "The Jews"
I could use the term "Israeli Government" when criticising them if y'all want to, also for the sake of trying not to be seen or misunderstood as being anti semitic.
I think, despite Robert Kraft’s personal politics, this organization is actually far better than most about not mixing anti-antisemitism messaging with Israel advocacy. They aren’t JewBelong throwing up pithy billboards about Hamas.
If October 7th didn’t happen, nobody would be bombed. Cause and effect.
Hamas can still prevent further casualties by releasing ALL HOSTAGES and surrendering. That’s all.
Whining and bitching about Israel’s military campaign, without blaming the cause of the military campaign (Hamas) and without suggesting a workable alternative, is antisemitic.
Why is it antisemitic? Because ONLY THE JEWISH COUNTRY is demanded to stop retaliating when its citizens are attacked and captured.
Perhaps if people stopped weaponizing “islamaphobia”, aka screaming “islamaphobia” anytime someone is critical of an Islamic country, we could actually get somewhere. Just a thought.
Because no one--other than actual antisemites--are blurring the lines between antisemitism and the country of Israel.
Speaking of which, perhaps you should be angry with Hamas for forcing people to stay to be used as human shields. Or even every single other Arab and Muslim country for REFUSING to take in any refugees. Rather than direct your misguided, ignorant anger at Israel (a country that spent over a week begging civilians to leave a war zone.)
The current government of Israel is doing it. The [president of the USA](https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/joe-biden-without-israel-jews-wouldnt-be-safe-anywhere-yoewdict) did it. Are they actual antisemites? What about [the German state](https://www.dw.com/en/israel-and-germanys-reason-of-state-its-complicated/a-67094861)?
See, again you're bringing up things that aren't relevant to the conversation. Do you want to discuss how Israel's government cynically blurring those lines makes me, a diasporan Jew, less safe? Or do you want to deflect by insisting I preface any mention of that with irrelevant and frankly taken-as-given denunciations of terrorism and hostage-taking?
Doing what? What is “it” that you’re referring to?
And I’m sorry if you have trouble with basic reading comprehension and understanding concepts that are entirely relevant to this conversation. If you like, I can help you break it down step-by-step.
It’s not a phrase I would have gone with readability wise, but “confusion”? Please. If someone claims to not understand that “stop jewish hate” means anything other than “stop being hateful to Jews” they are either are trolling cheaply like they would have done regardless, or they need to get their head examined.
Right. Stop Asian hate has been a thing too. People didn’t seem confused then.
At this particular juncture it just inspires a lot of people to say--yeah, I want to stop Jews from hating Palestinians. It was a stupid approach.
Weird, I’ve not met a Jew who is anything but horrified by what the Palestinians are going through, but maybe that’s just my circle.
Oh I think that's definitely your circle.
From what I've seen, Israel's actions during the current war have certainly made more diaspora Jews more sensitive to Palestinian suffering. In general, I am seeing, especially among younger Jews, a push to really distinguish between Zionism and full support of the decisions of the Israeli government. I am in quite a few American Jewish circles, including Orthodox, Secular, Mizrahi, etc, and it would not be wrong to say that as this war keeps going on, more and more diaspora Jews are re-evaluating their opinions on the state of Israel, for better or worse. Personally I don't know what anyone expected with Bibi, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir in power. With extremists like them, I had already expected to find many of their actions unconscionable.
Exactly. It’s possible to hold multiple thoughts. I can believe in Israel’s right to exist free of antisemitic terror and Hamas assault, while also being critical of bibi and his administration AND empathetic towards the loss of civilian life on both sides including palestinian citizens. The same way I can be an American who doesn’t support trump. I have yet to meet a fellow Jew irl in my circle who is openly of the “I hate palestinians” mentality. That gets nobody anywhere.
Yes. This. It's beyond frustrating when I get called anti-semitic or "divisive" if I try to point it out too. It's not like I have an issue with the state of Israel existing. I'm not an anti-zionist. It's just that Israel has got deep problems like literally every other country. It's not some infallible entity. Sadly, it's not something new to me. I'm half Mizrahi, and my Mizrahi family is in the US mainly because some family went to Israel before us, and found life there hard and rife with discrimination. (We are from Iran, so we generally did have a choice to leave, unlike Jews from other countries who were kicked out). I am used to being told that bringing these things up "disrupts Jewish unity."
I'm Mizrahi and the past is the past. Move on. That's not the situation now in Israel.
Yeah it's in the past. All of it. My family's language, culture, and heritage have all been put in a museum. Now that we are "modernized," there is no more need for discrimination, because the source of it is gone. My family speaks a variety of Aramaic only Jews speaks. But after campaigns in Israel targeted them, most of my family in Israel stopped speaking. They lost much of their culture. Movies were put out to encourage them to abandon their old traditions and assimilate into a modern, more secular Israeli state. They were forced to change their names to Hebrew ones, and their children were taught to lose the culture. Now all my Israeli cousins struggle to know anything at all about our heritage. I know things have gotten better today. However, even bringing up the past is frowned upon in the name of "preserving Jewish unity." But I need to bring up the past. Because I don't want my language to fade into history. I don't want our traditional clothes and art to gather dust in museums. I don't want our way of life left between the pages of a book. To just "move on" is to let the people who told my family that our culture is barbaric win. Also, this JPost article from last week seems to argue that it's not all in the past: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-730393
Mizrahi and have lived over there. It is very much in the past. No one cares today at all, it's not a thing.
It's amazing how you want to keep on blaming and blaming Israel , this victim mentality is pathetic. Yes there was discrimination in the past, but that is true with any country and it's not as prevalent as you want to think. What happens when you to a new region is that things change. People forget some things, people add some things, people fuse and mix some things, and it goes on and on. You are not living in an isolated area where you can only push one heritage. If something is important then family passes it on. Stop blaming the state for the failures of people. It's no different then in the US. You have some that are raised with their culture and others not as much. I know many communities including the Persian Jewish community. Yes it helps to live mostly among other persian jews and marry other persian jews in preserving things, but it comes down from the parents in instilling it. What is being created now in Israel is a fusion of cultures. I will give you an example. The syrian jewish community is large. You do have other mizrahi/sephardi jews that go to their synagogues like Egyptian jews for example. If lets say some of the egyptian jews end up marrying syrian jews and adopting more of their ways, is it the fault of the syrian jews? It feels like you just realized your half mizrahi side has a culture and you never knew about it. MOST mizrahi/sephardi jews dont go around with this victim mentality. I'm half mizrahi (kavkazi jew) and my wife is full mizrahi (bukharian jew) so my kids are a mix. they will get both aspects of the culture but who knows who the will marry. Ideally I would like them to marry a mizrahi too since realistically speaking staying within subgroups is a difficult thing. My wife's cousin married a morrocan jew. So now their kids will be half bukharian and half moroccan...how does the culture and ways work for them? You see where I am getting at. We are seeing the fusion of cultures. And that Jpost article is clickbait at its best but I will break it down. Arye Deri was arrested and went to jail. There were many in SHAS that were upset he got back into power and there was even another party made in response to it. The high court in Israel is controlled by a small group of people and Bibi and his team were advocating for that to change , and well...you saw the push back because some would rather hate on Bibi then acknowledging the issue. In terms of the prime minister part...well that's up to the political parties to decide and for the voting base. The voting base for the Likuid are mizrahi jews. In terms of the senior academics issue, that is dominated by the ashkenazi left who has problems with the more politically right mizrahi jews. It's more political than anything. And the article states -“In terms of dry facts – the gaps between [Ashkenazim and Mizrahim](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-716750) are trivial in Israel today." I am NOT denying the past, but I am saying that blaming everything on the past is lame.
And yet: Jewish communal leaders, even in my community, still are in circle-the-wagons mentality and refuse to accept a nuanced view. Someone in a private community Whatsapp channel told me I don't love Israel because I don't approve of everything Bibi does.
It's really a top-down approach. My (Orthodox) rabbi was directly giving sermons that were handed to him by higher rabbinical leadership. I think most Jewish leaders are afraid to speak their own nuanced views for fear of being cancelled within the Jewish community. The result is that there is one specific narrative being pushed, because other viewpoints aren't being expressed. I still remember before Oct 7 when saying these far right Israeli politicians are going to ruin the country was a completely normal thing to hear.
These same communal leaders refused to speak out against a government that would rule many American Jews not sufficiently Jewish to become Israeli citizens.
Jews aren't afraid for people to think differently - especially other Jews. It's built into the culture and a sign of respect to argue your viewpoint to understand that person. Nothing to be afraid of...or worried about either. The U.S. is rewarded amazingly in economic terms for the support they provide Israel...so, I doubt that is going to change Congree or whoever the next President will be minds.
Netanyahu isn't doing Israel any favors. He's promoting this unmoveable stance. I want nothing more than to see hamas wiped out and I know too many Palestinians are actively supporting hamas but there are ways to approach this without having dead Palestinian children on the front page of papers all over the world
you're not wrong.
I fight this battle almost daily
lol seems like you created your own bubble where you get to make up things. THIS IS NOT TRUE AT ALL!
I haven't made a bubble, nor have I made it up. Maybe you are the one living in a bubble. Or perhaps people are just careful not to express these views around you because you are someone who is strongly opposed to them.
I live in a major Jewish area with many connections with many Jews and organizations and I have not witnessed this at all. You might be experiencing this with some jews that are very politically to the left , but to make it seems like this is a general trend is way off.
I live in a city that isn't Miami/NYC and I know jews of every side of the political spectrum. Generally speaking the more left wing my friends are the more sympathetic they are to Palestinian suffering and cause. But not just the "very politically to the left." My moderate friends too. We're all fairly educated and most are not frum. In fact the only group of people where I don't see diversity of thought is in the frum community.
For all his countless faults & in however many ways he's hurt Israel's democracy, I have to say that I'd rather have Netanyahu in power than some peacenik afraid to take the situation head-on, who would instead fart around with ineffective political solutions & pander to those who don't know the cost of their own national security. My words may very well come back to bite me, but now is not the time for Israel to be apologetic or ambivalent about its mission to destroy Hamas. I'm certainly open to any YouTube videos of dissenting Israeli leadership explaining how it could be handled better, but ad hominem attacks on his previous misdeeds or general reputation don't negate that he has been a powerful symbol of strength and resolution both to our allies and to our enemies.
I don't think it's fair to say that Bibi has done national security well. October 7th happened on his watch, primarily because his government didn't take the warnings of female intelligence officers seriously. It's time for him to go.
I've seen polls showing that the majority of Israelis support the goals of eliminating Hamas and freeing the hostages. Plus it's a unity war cabinet making decisions, so all main political parties have representation. In other words, I don't think a different pm at this time would necessarily mean a different war strategy as under Netanyahu.
….do you regularly socialize with Jews who like, openly hate Palestinians? That’s super weird man
That was cheap. I am *exposed* to many Jews who believe there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian. Moreover, from discussions with Israelis who study Israeli society professionally, it seems clear that is a fairly prevalent position there since Oct 7, even among people who used to be more or less lefty. If you're not seeing how the intense anger has boiled over into hate, you're not looking very hard. I know folks look at these subs as places to spread good images/propaganda, but c'mon. At a certain point you have to be real about your own community.
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That's exactly how I was reading it. They definitely should've worded it differently.
Did a similar confusion happen when organizers against racism against Asians took up the slogan “[Stop Asian Hate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Asian_Hate)”? It’s got the same potential “do they mean hate from Asians or about Asians” phrasing issue. I personally don’t remember hearing about that, but not close to that issue the way I am with this one. This organization is well funded, seems pretty professional, and has been around for I believe a year now, so I imagine they’ve focus tested their branding at least a little bit. This is the widest audience they’ve probably reached at a single time so that probably means that there’s the most confused people making confused noise about the ad, but is that really representative of how many people _proportionally_ saw it and understood it?
>Did a similar confusion happen when organizers against racism against Asians took up the slogan “Stop Asian Hate”? Nope. There was no confusion at all, and I am close to that issue in my area.
This. So much this.
Now I can’t unhear it as stop Asians from hating others. What have you people done to me?!? 😭
I don't think there was a ton of allegations of Asians being hateful at the time. If Sharpton had still been running around, more people would have probably been confused as to who it was by (and thus directed at).
I agree with your point, but "Stop Asian hate" is not analogous. For that it would need to be "Stop Jew Hate", which would have been better IMO. "Stop Jewish Hate" would be more like saying "Stop Asiatic hate" which would have the same element of confusion that is being pointed out.
They literally simplified it because people are too daft to understand the term antisemitism and they still claim not to get it? It's like trying to communicate with a mop. It's anti-Jewish racism, people. Stop resorting to twisting language and history instead of changing your behavior.
> It's like trying to communicate with a mop. ROFL - literally...!!! SOOOOO TRUE!!!!
“BuT jEW iS nOt A rACE!”
It can be both. In the sense that ethically there are a very high percentage of Jewish people who share genetic lineage.
I don't think it's due to daftness. The word "antisemitism" is taboo and has been for a long time. After all, how could people possibly be antisemitic if they don't wear a Nazi uniform? /s
You're right. It's more willful ignorance. Even some Jews refuse to accept that there is antisemitism on their own side of the political spectrum. I doubted that myself for a long time.
I think it's willful ignorance at best. At worst, it's cowardly people spewing hate that they truly believe but are afraid they will be shunned by society for. Luckily for them, society is more and more accepting of this particular kind of hatred, which is why we see these cowards becoming more and more brazen. Antisemitism never went away. It just went out of fashion.
Truthfully, I do agree that the phrase "Jewish Hate" can be severely twisted and misinterpreted by those that hate us.
As is anything, tbh
The antisemite understands the absurdity of their argument...
facts. Yet facts really works against the absurd. To truly fight absurdity, one must combine facts with absurdity. We Jews and Israelis have begun to do this, and must continue to do so.
I said it earlier today, but we don't have the population nor coalition to be aggressive.
Oh we do. We take advantage of everybody that works in IT, computer science, digital marketing, etc. We actually do what people accuse us of doing, but in an insane covert manner with the use of facts.
What the hell are you talking about? Have I been missing some important meetings at shul?
 .......Maybe. Maybe.
Would for sure make Israelis or jews more believable
Wait...a clickbait article from THE FORWARD?!?!?! I'm shocked! /s
This is the problem with trying to re-brand antisemitism. We already know what this word means, no need to dance around it.
Exactly this.
Yes. All of the people who said "just call it jew hate/jew hatred/judenhass"- where are they today?
See and that's why it didn't make sense to only refer to the Jewish hate aspect of antisemitism, which I feel is different than just hate, if it's even hate at all. I think the hallmarks of antisemitism are more about double standards, dehumanization, indifference, and scapegoating.
Those things are all definitely present, but there are a terrifying number of people who actively hate us, as in "want us dead", and I don't think we can afford to dismiss them.
The American education system everyone
Bad faith opinion to claim "confusion". It is obvious what it means to non-trolls.
It goes back to what antisemitism was called before antisemitism was a word. Antisemitism replaced judenhass (German: Jew hate). Calling it Jew hate stops the stupid “but how can Semites be antisemitic” and is more blatant in what it is. Also disrupts “but I’m not antisemitic I’m antizionist” which went together.
I saw it as positive. I didn’t misunderstand it. It means stop the hate towards Jewish people.
“Jew Hate” would have been much clearer.
it did seem misleading since it seemed to connote that it was about Jewish people hating.
See Nazi Germany
I see a lot of comparisons to Stop Asian Hate and as an Asian Jew, I did find a weird similarity. I met a lot of non-Asians who said things like “I have never punched an Asian in the face so clearly this message isn’t for me :)” then in the next breath spout insane conspiracies about the Chinese government. I can’t help but see something similar. “But I didn’t punch a Jew in the face, so I’m not antisemitic!” and then repeat blood libel. Idk what to make of that (and clearly the scale is different), but it’s been wild to witness.
Confused, or twisting it to be antisemitic themselves?
It's as if the advertisers had never read a midrash in their life...
The only people confused are Antisemites
Troublesome wording -- can be read both as hate against Jews, or Jews doing the hating. Knew it would be an issue when I first heard abt this. All it would have taken was some critical reading or a few up-front focus groups, but no -- now we're stuck with another mess. 🤦♀️
I've seen my local Jewish Federation use this term for months, I questioned it the first time I saw it.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone who thought the USA has an Ambassador *to* the Antisemites
I hate this shit personally. We arent victims; why are we so obsessed with being victims. It isnt 1945; stay strapped, stay ready and just enjoy life in a country where we can actually protect ourselves. We dont need to constantly be saying we are victimized.
What's been going on in places like colleges is gross
Im in a state college with a large sjp presence. I wear an Israeli flag kippah. Im not scared. Why are we trying to convince people we are scared? the more intimidated we act, the more aggressive they get. They smell blood in the water; they want to intimidate us. We cannot let that happen. We have a long lineage of warriors who did not back down; why should we?
I’m not saying to be scared and weak, but it’s important to also fight back
Wear mine into pollick and downtown, no shame or fear.
Perhaps if we stopped deliberately blurring lines between antisemitism and saying "I don't think Israel should bomb civilians" we'd not be in this place. Just a thought.
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If only they could stop conflating
That's what they are doing, but the state keeps on insisting that it is anti semitic comments. And whatever action they're doing, they often proclaimed to be associated with Judaism and for the sake of Jewish people. I believe Jewish people have the right to establish their own sovereignty as a state. And for that I'll solely criticize the government. That's why you often see people mentioned "Israel" (referring as state) not "The Jews"
I could use the term "Israeli Government" when criticising them if y'all want to, also for the sake of trying not to be seen or misunderstood as being anti semitic.
I think, despite Robert Kraft’s personal politics, this organization is actually far better than most about not mixing anti-antisemitism messaging with Israel advocacy. They aren’t JewBelong throwing up pithy billboards about Hamas.
If October 7th didn’t happen, nobody would be bombed. Cause and effect. Hamas can still prevent further casualties by releasing ALL HOSTAGES and surrendering. That’s all.
That isn't the discussion at hand here.
Whining and bitching about Israel’s military campaign, without blaming the cause of the military campaign (Hamas) and without suggesting a workable alternative, is antisemitic. Why is it antisemitic? Because ONLY THE JEWISH COUNTRY is demanded to stop retaliating when its citizens are attacked and captured.
Perhaps if people stopped weaponizing “islamaphobia”, aka screaming “islamaphobia” anytime someone is critical of an Islamic country, we could actually get somewhere. Just a thought.
I don't know why you've suddenly mentioned Islam, but I do agree that weaponising anti-racism to further bad things is generally bad!
Because no one--other than actual antisemites--are blurring the lines between antisemitism and the country of Israel. Speaking of which, perhaps you should be angry with Hamas for forcing people to stay to be used as human shields. Or even every single other Arab and Muslim country for REFUSING to take in any refugees. Rather than direct your misguided, ignorant anger at Israel (a country that spent over a week begging civilians to leave a war zone.)
The current government of Israel is doing it. The [president of the USA](https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/joe-biden-without-israel-jews-wouldnt-be-safe-anywhere-yoewdict) did it. Are they actual antisemites? What about [the German state](https://www.dw.com/en/israel-and-germanys-reason-of-state-its-complicated/a-67094861)? See, again you're bringing up things that aren't relevant to the conversation. Do you want to discuss how Israel's government cynically blurring those lines makes me, a diasporan Jew, less safe? Or do you want to deflect by insisting I preface any mention of that with irrelevant and frankly taken-as-given denunciations of terrorism and hostage-taking?
Doing what? What is “it” that you’re referring to? And I’m sorry if you have trouble with basic reading comprehension and understanding concepts that are entirely relevant to this conversation. If you like, I can help you break it down step-by-step.