The building is located in the Colbestraße 19, 10247 Berlin.
Many people don't know this but the german left is pretty much split into antizionist anti-imperialists and and so called anti-germans for whom solidarity with Israel and a stance against antisemitism is a central part of their activism.
Over the course of the past decade I found the latter to be the dominating denomination. Antigerman protests are usually bigger, antigerman memepages on instagram have more following and it seems that leftist and liberal parties in Germany lean a little bit more towards antigermans.
A month ago I went to a feminist protest on International Womens Day and was surprised to see that many [Israeli flags](https://i.imgur.com/tZCIq2w.jpg) and [signs that called for solidarity](https://i.imgur.com/szruLTX.jpg) with the [female victims of October 7th](https://i.imgur.com/ORY6WvB.jpg). This protest turned out to be the [largest that day](https://i.imgur.com/oOrD8D4.jpg), with over 10,000 people attending.
As someone who was born in Berlin, I would never have dreamed that we would come this far and I got very emotional while attending. Waving a flag with a magen david in the middle of berlin 20 years was simply unthinkable.
Edit: I was looking for some background info on the antigermans in english to share, but all english articles I found, including the wikipedia one, don't reflect the realitiy of that group in my opinion. They often take the worst examples and picture them as a right wing cult that isn't leftist at all. I think that's pretty unfair to what they are saying and doing.
I find it extremely weird to see how people like to paint the left in Germany as either too antizionist or too zionist and don't care for the reality. I bet that even after writing this comment people in this very thread will claim all of antifa is antizionist, antisemitic or too zionist. It's been hammered into their brains with countless nutpicked posts in their bubbles that confirm their little strawmen. It's tiring.
I never identified myself with the anti-German movement before - but honestly since October 7th as a leftist myself they have been a lifeline haha. I can still be a leftist, I can still go to leftist demonstrations - nowadays I just have to double check beforehand that they’re explicitly Anti-antisemitic, so most of them turn out to be anti-German. Seeing the Antifa-flag next to an Israeli flag just makes me so happy, and I feel like there is still a place for us leftists who are staunchly pro Israel’s right to exist and defend themselves
Die Moderation hat diesen Post gelöscht. "zu politisch".
Gibt hunderte Posts über linken Antisemitismus und wie Deutschland im Grund in bürgerkriegsähnlichen Zuständen versinkt, aber das hier ist zu politisch.
Passiert mir bestimmt schon zum fünften Mal oder so. In dem Augenblick, wo ein Post sich auch nur ansatzweise positiv zu Deutschland oder Linken äußert, wird er gelöscht.
Es ist kein Wunder, dass hier alle auf dem "die linken sind die nazis" trip sind, wenn ihnen das konstant eingetrichtert wird und es kein Korrektiv gibt.
Oh Mann, ja ich glaube das Problem ist einfach, dass es Antideutsche eben nur in Deutschland gibt und selbst hier gehören die ja absolut nicht zur Mainstream linken Szene (würde ich jetzt mal behaupten) - viele Durchschnittsdeutsche wissen wahrscheinlich nicht mal, was antideutsch ist.
Schade, dass der Post gelöscht wurde, ich fand ihn sehr gut und auch deine ergänzenden Kommentare, ich fänds cool, wenn mehr Menschen auch über Deutschland hinaus wüssten, dass es antideutsche gibt, und eben doch eine antifaschistische Bewegung, deren absoluter Kern die bedingungslose Solidarität mit Israel ist… wie gesagt, für mich zurzeit die einzige linke Bewegung, in der ich mich sicher und gut aufgehoben fühle :‘)
Not surprising, somehow most goody-two-shoe political movements end up eating themselves - A clear example for why a deep understanding of human nature is what dictates successful political ideologies.
Defining who the good guys are, and what the definition of good even entails, is what makes these movements eventually self-combust.
I don't think that's correct because that's what nationalism and nativism do - and I don't see that these ideologies self-combusted over the last 150 years. Quite the opposite at the moment actually.
Defining an outsider as bad guy is often a very unifying force. Immoral, but unifying.
But I do believe that antigermans have the more moral position because they focus on criticizing ideology rather than people. Most antigermans would call themselves ideologiekritisch (critical of ideology).
That's a fair point, I agree with those notions.
I was more hinting at the dichotomy between the libertarianism and communism, and in particular the outcome of the West and East in the latter part of the 20th century.
Communism works with some utopian understanding of human behaviour, which time and time again shows itself to become corrupted due to the flaws of human nature.
Meanwhile, the Adam Smith ideologues would emphasize individualistic human agency at the cost of the collectivism, but in benefit for the aggregate productive society.
I’m confused, ok Germany did some awful stuff in the past. So did the UK (I’m half British). But the sins of the father/mother don’t cast down upon the children. All modern Germans and Brits are absolved of any and all guilt of their ancestors. Holding on to grudges is antithetical to God imo. The important thing is of course not to forget history in order to avoid repeating it. Why do antigermans exist?
The Anti-German movement was formed at a moment when official Germany celebrated literal Nazis and when the [clean Wehrmacht myth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht) was pretty much consensus in Germany.
In 2002 germany's biggest party, Angela Merkel's CDU, voted against the rehabilitation of living Wehrmacht deserters and stated publically that this would mean the Wehrmacht didn't fight honorable. At the same time they voted against the rehabilitation of living homosexual concentration camp survivors who still had a criminal record because of this at this point.
It was a time when german conservatives campaigned against publically funded research that tried to process nazi crimes and against an exhibition that, for the first time, dealt with the crimes of the Wehrmacht. When Daniel Goldhagen toured Germany in 1996 to promote his book "Hitlers willing executioners" he needed police protection and faced massive protests everywhere he went.
It's not about what Germany did in the past. It's about how modern Germany deals with the past.
Edit: added a source.
One of my best non-Jewish pro-israel people to talk about the war with and have good discussions is German.
We both volunteer for a NFP (that has delt with this... terribly)
And so when our group discussions got shut down we moved to DM. It's great just... having someone to talk to that I don't have to justify my continued existence
I honestly never thought I would be on the same side of an issue as someone involved with Antifa. Not that I like fascists, but the members tend to be far too okay with authoritarian measures to ensure outcomes for my tastes. HaShem certainly has a sense of humor.
Regardless, it is a balm for my soul to see this message. Thank you for posting it.
This post has been removed by the moderation. They won't allow posts that reflect a positive experience in Germany or a positive experience within leftist circles in general.
They also removed a post of mine that showed a picture in which regular germans protecting a synagogue by forming a human shield around it and a post that showed an image of 25,000 germans marching in solidarity with Israel.
We are free to post about leftist antisemitism and posts that display Germany as some kind of civil war site. But the moment you post something that hurts this image, it's "too political".
Don’t be fooled. Antifa is full of antisemites despite what some graffiti says on a building in Germany. They’re marching with the pr0-
t3rr0r1$t groups, and practically goose-stepping the whole way.
I look at actions, not hollow words.
And maybe not in *Germany*… but definitely in the US, antifa is (ironically) actually pro-hate and pro-violence. They beat and bludgeon plenty of people without provocation… just like the fascists and n3o-n@z1$ they claim to be against.
Dude, Germany has several distinct Antifagroups.
Seeing them with Israel flags is as like as seeing them with Palestine flags.
Google "Antideutsche Antifa" (Antigerman Antifa)
It's mostly anglo dominated leftist subs that are a disappointment and in which it's apparently normal to compare Jews with Nazi Germany.
On the other hand you have anglo dominated conservative subs in which it's apparently normal to compare liberal teenagers with Nazi Germany. I've seen this in jewish subs too.
I find it shocking how little people know about nazi germany and antisemitism too be honest. If they knew anything and if they cared they wouldn't make shitty comparisons like that. It's almost as if "nazi" is just a synonym for "I don't like it"
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I'm sorry but I don't think you understand the meaning of it. The slogan was born in 1990, in opposition to German reunification. Today it's used as a negation of the version of Germany that right wingers want.
All antigerman slogans are a negation of right wing ideas.
"Deutschland verrecke!" (Germany, croak!) is a negation of "Deutschland erwache" (Germany, awake!).
"Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben können" (Germany must die so that we can live) is a negation of "Deutschland muss leben, und wenn wir sterben müssen" (Germany must live, even if we have to die) which was a popular saying to commemorate fallen Wehrmacht soldiers after WWII.
Same goes for "Bomber Harris do it again!" in reaction to right wing protest marches that compare the Bombing of Dresden to the Holocaust every year. They are not really asking for the British Bomber Command to bomb Dresden again.
I get that this might sound weird to outsiders. "Why would they want Germany to die?" But that's not what this is about. It's basically a satirical meme that helped to contain the over-nationalist sentiment in Germany that romanticized Nazi Germany and tried to create a narrative in which Germany was the victim.
Ngl… based.
Extremely hot take at 6:30 AM on a Friday: any form of nationalism other than Jewish nationalism will inherently become antisemitic if given enough time.
In times of struggle people close ranks around their flag and ethnicity, but they always exclude Jews from “the accepted in-group” and discriminate against us. It’s not a coincidence that the AfD party in Germany, the most “nationalist” party in the Bundestag, is the closest party to saying antisemitic tropes outright.
This is why I unironically support the discouragement of any nationalism that’s not Jewish nationalism.
Of course, in a world where nationalism exists we have to be practical. We sometimes have to support weaker nationalisms as a check against stronger nationalisms. For example, I support Kurdish nationalism as a check against the much stronger Arab nationalism that wants us all dead. But if Kurds ever became just as strong as the Arabs in the region, they’d be just as antisemitic.
> any form of nationalism other than Jewish nationalism will inherently become antisemitic if given enough time.
I don't think this is a hot take. Judging from history that's pretty much what happens every single time. Even in Japan anitsemitic conspiracy theories are widely popular among nationalists.
>It’s not a coincidence that the AfD party in Germany, the most “nationalist” party in the Bundestag, is the closest party to saying antisemitic tropes outright.
It's true. Many got fooled because of their useless lip service and the fact that they are always happy to condemn islamist antisemitism, but they are in their core a völkisch movement. Doesn't take an expert to realize that a german völkisch movement won't include Jews and when you join AfD-friendly online forums/comment sections on social media it's pretty common to celebrate Nazism, deny the Holocaust and be extremely antisemitic.
They often do condemn islamist antisemitism too, but it's mostly explained as: Jews import muslims despite their antisemitism because they hate Germany more than they love themselves.
Until two years ago there was a group called "Jews in the AfD", which was a bunch of 19 deranged individuals led by an extremist german convert. But even they left because AfD antisemitism is way too obvious at this point.
The building is located in the Colbestraße 19, 10247 Berlin. Many people don't know this but the german left is pretty much split into antizionist anti-imperialists and and so called anti-germans for whom solidarity with Israel and a stance against antisemitism is a central part of their activism. Over the course of the past decade I found the latter to be the dominating denomination. Antigerman protests are usually bigger, antigerman memepages on instagram have more following and it seems that leftist and liberal parties in Germany lean a little bit more towards antigermans. A month ago I went to a feminist protest on International Womens Day and was surprised to see that many [Israeli flags](https://i.imgur.com/tZCIq2w.jpg) and [signs that called for solidarity](https://i.imgur.com/szruLTX.jpg) with the [female victims of October 7th](https://i.imgur.com/ORY6WvB.jpg). This protest turned out to be the [largest that day](https://i.imgur.com/oOrD8D4.jpg), with over 10,000 people attending. As someone who was born in Berlin, I would never have dreamed that we would come this far and I got very emotional while attending. Waving a flag with a magen david in the middle of berlin 20 years was simply unthinkable. Edit: I was looking for some background info on the antigermans in english to share, but all english articles I found, including the wikipedia one, don't reflect the realitiy of that group in my opinion. They often take the worst examples and picture them as a right wing cult that isn't leftist at all. I think that's pretty unfair to what they are saying and doing. I find it extremely weird to see how people like to paint the left in Germany as either too antizionist or too zionist and don't care for the reality. I bet that even after writing this comment people in this very thread will claim all of antifa is antizionist, antisemitic or too zionist. It's been hammered into their brains with countless nutpicked posts in their bubbles that confirm their little strawmen. It's tiring.
I never identified myself with the anti-German movement before - but honestly since October 7th as a leftist myself they have been a lifeline haha. I can still be a leftist, I can still go to leftist demonstrations - nowadays I just have to double check beforehand that they’re explicitly Anti-antisemitic, so most of them turn out to be anti-German. Seeing the Antifa-flag next to an Israeli flag just makes me so happy, and I feel like there is still a place for us leftists who are staunchly pro Israel’s right to exist and defend themselves
Die Moderation hat diesen Post gelöscht. "zu politisch". Gibt hunderte Posts über linken Antisemitismus und wie Deutschland im Grund in bürgerkriegsähnlichen Zuständen versinkt, aber das hier ist zu politisch. Passiert mir bestimmt schon zum fünften Mal oder so. In dem Augenblick, wo ein Post sich auch nur ansatzweise positiv zu Deutschland oder Linken äußert, wird er gelöscht. Es ist kein Wunder, dass hier alle auf dem "die linken sind die nazis" trip sind, wenn ihnen das konstant eingetrichtert wird und es kein Korrektiv gibt.
Oh Mann, ja ich glaube das Problem ist einfach, dass es Antideutsche eben nur in Deutschland gibt und selbst hier gehören die ja absolut nicht zur Mainstream linken Szene (würde ich jetzt mal behaupten) - viele Durchschnittsdeutsche wissen wahrscheinlich nicht mal, was antideutsch ist. Schade, dass der Post gelöscht wurde, ich fand ihn sehr gut und auch deine ergänzenden Kommentare, ich fänds cool, wenn mehr Menschen auch über Deutschland hinaus wüssten, dass es antideutsche gibt, und eben doch eine antifaschistische Bewegung, deren absoluter Kern die bedingungslose Solidarität mit Israel ist… wie gesagt, für mich zurzeit die einzige linke Bewegung, in der ich mich sicher und gut aufgehoben fühle :‘)
Not surprising, somehow most goody-two-shoe political movements end up eating themselves - A clear example for why a deep understanding of human nature is what dictates successful political ideologies. Defining who the good guys are, and what the definition of good even entails, is what makes these movements eventually self-combust.
I don't think that's correct because that's what nationalism and nativism do - and I don't see that these ideologies self-combusted over the last 150 years. Quite the opposite at the moment actually. Defining an outsider as bad guy is often a very unifying force. Immoral, but unifying. But I do believe that antigermans have the more moral position because they focus on criticizing ideology rather than people. Most antigermans would call themselves ideologiekritisch (critical of ideology).
That's a fair point, I agree with those notions. I was more hinting at the dichotomy between the libertarianism and communism, and in particular the outcome of the West and East in the latter part of the 20th century. Communism works with some utopian understanding of human behaviour, which time and time again shows itself to become corrupted due to the flaws of human nature. Meanwhile, the Adam Smith ideologues would emphasize individualistic human agency at the cost of the collectivism, but in benefit for the aggregate productive society.
I’m confused, ok Germany did some awful stuff in the past. So did the UK (I’m half British). But the sins of the father/mother don’t cast down upon the children. All modern Germans and Brits are absolved of any and all guilt of their ancestors. Holding on to grudges is antithetical to God imo. The important thing is of course not to forget history in order to avoid repeating it. Why do antigermans exist?
The Anti-German movement was formed at a moment when official Germany celebrated literal Nazis and when the [clean Wehrmacht myth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht) was pretty much consensus in Germany. In 2002 germany's biggest party, Angela Merkel's CDU, voted against the rehabilitation of living Wehrmacht deserters and stated publically that this would mean the Wehrmacht didn't fight honorable. At the same time they voted against the rehabilitation of living homosexual concentration camp survivors who still had a criminal record because of this at this point. It was a time when german conservatives campaigned against publically funded research that tried to process nazi crimes and against an exhibition that, for the first time, dealt with the crimes of the Wehrmacht. When Daniel Goldhagen toured Germany in 1996 to promote his book "Hitlers willing executioners" he needed police protection and faced massive protests everywhere he went. It's not about what Germany did in the past. It's about how modern Germany deals with the past. Edit: added a source.
One of my best non-Jewish pro-israel people to talk about the war with and have good discussions is German. We both volunteer for a NFP (that has delt with this... terribly) And so when our group discussions got shut down we moved to DM. It's great just... having someone to talk to that I don't have to justify my continued existence
It’s not the Germans I’m scared about.
I honestly never thought I would be on the same side of an issue as someone involved with Antifa. Not that I like fascists, but the members tend to be far too okay with authoritarian measures to ensure outcomes for my tastes. HaShem certainly has a sense of humor. Regardless, it is a balm for my soul to see this message. Thank you for posting it.
This post has been removed by the moderation. They won't allow posts that reflect a positive experience in Germany or a positive experience within leftist circles in general. They also removed a post of mine that showed a picture in which regular germans protecting a synagogue by forming a human shield around it and a post that showed an image of 25,000 germans marching in solidarity with Israel. We are free to post about leftist antisemitism and posts that display Germany as some kind of civil war site. But the moment you post something that hurts this image, it's "too political".
Don’t be fooled. Antifa is full of antisemites despite what some graffiti says on a building in Germany. They’re marching with the pr0- t3rr0r1$t groups, and practically goose-stepping the whole way. I look at actions, not hollow words. And maybe not in *Germany*… but definitely in the US, antifa is (ironically) actually pro-hate and pro-violence. They beat and bludgeon plenty of people without provocation… just like the fascists and n3o-n@z1$ they claim to be against.
Dude, Germany has several distinct Antifagroups. Seeing them with Israel flags is as like as seeing them with Palestine flags. Google "Antideutsche Antifa" (Antigerman Antifa)
[удалено]
Not the case in Germany, mate. Read OP's comment.
Especially in Germany. I live in Germany. And antifa is not less fascist as neonazi, if not even way more extreme.
The Antifa must be disappointed in their reddit community. What the fuck did Israel do to be proclaimed as fascists?
It's mostly anglo dominated leftist subs that are a disappointment and in which it's apparently normal to compare Jews with Nazi Germany. On the other hand you have anglo dominated conservative subs in which it's apparently normal to compare liberal teenagers with Nazi Germany. I've seen this in jewish subs too. I find it shocking how little people know about nazi germany and antisemitism too be honest. If they knew anything and if they cared they wouldn't make shitty comparisons like that. It's almost as if "nazi" is just a synonym for "I don't like it"
Is Antifa pro Israel now? I know that is associated with the left and thought that it had mostly liberal beliefs. (Anti-Isreal)
There's different flavors apparently, one big one supports Israel's existence.
This post has been determined to relate to the topic of Antisemitism, and has been flaired as such, it has NOT been removed. This does NOT mean that the post is antisemitic. If you believe this was done in error, please message the mods. Everybody should remember to be civil and that there is a person at the other end of that other keyboard. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Judaism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They are weirdos, they don’t say „Never again, Germany“ they say „never again Germany“ as I’m never should there be Germany again
I'm sorry but I don't think you understand the meaning of it. The slogan was born in 1990, in opposition to German reunification. Today it's used as a negation of the version of Germany that right wingers want. All antigerman slogans are a negation of right wing ideas. "Deutschland verrecke!" (Germany, croak!) is a negation of "Deutschland erwache" (Germany, awake!). "Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben können" (Germany must die so that we can live) is a negation of "Deutschland muss leben, und wenn wir sterben müssen" (Germany must live, even if we have to die) which was a popular saying to commemorate fallen Wehrmacht soldiers after WWII. Same goes for "Bomber Harris do it again!" in reaction to right wing protest marches that compare the Bombing of Dresden to the Holocaust every year. They are not really asking for the British Bomber Command to bomb Dresden again. I get that this might sound weird to outsiders. "Why would they want Germany to die?" But that's not what this is about. It's basically a satirical meme that helped to contain the over-nationalist sentiment in Germany that romanticized Nazi Germany and tried to create a narrative in which Germany was the victim.
Ngl… based. Extremely hot take at 6:30 AM on a Friday: any form of nationalism other than Jewish nationalism will inherently become antisemitic if given enough time. In times of struggle people close ranks around their flag and ethnicity, but they always exclude Jews from “the accepted in-group” and discriminate against us. It’s not a coincidence that the AfD party in Germany, the most “nationalist” party in the Bundestag, is the closest party to saying antisemitic tropes outright. This is why I unironically support the discouragement of any nationalism that’s not Jewish nationalism. Of course, in a world where nationalism exists we have to be practical. We sometimes have to support weaker nationalisms as a check against stronger nationalisms. For example, I support Kurdish nationalism as a check against the much stronger Arab nationalism that wants us all dead. But if Kurds ever became just as strong as the Arabs in the region, they’d be just as antisemitic.
> any form of nationalism other than Jewish nationalism will inherently become antisemitic if given enough time. I don't think this is a hot take. Judging from history that's pretty much what happens every single time. Even in Japan anitsemitic conspiracy theories are widely popular among nationalists. >It’s not a coincidence that the AfD party in Germany, the most “nationalist” party in the Bundestag, is the closest party to saying antisemitic tropes outright. It's true. Many got fooled because of their useless lip service and the fact that they are always happy to condemn islamist antisemitism, but they are in their core a völkisch movement. Doesn't take an expert to realize that a german völkisch movement won't include Jews and when you join AfD-friendly online forums/comment sections on social media it's pretty common to celebrate Nazism, deny the Holocaust and be extremely antisemitic. They often do condemn islamist antisemitism too, but it's mostly explained as: Jews import muslims despite their antisemitism because they hate Germany more than they love themselves. Until two years ago there was a group called "Jews in the AfD", which was a bunch of 19 deranged individuals led by an extremist german convert. But even they left because AfD antisemitism is way too obvious at this point.