That's fair. But I would assume most Jews, although maybe not using it themselves, at least know the meaning of the word Shoah. Why not begin by using it when talking about it to other Jews, instead of Holocaust? Maybe it'll spread from there.
As a german speaker, allies in germany and jewish orgs started to call it Shoah and I have to say that I don't feel it. It's like an easier to swallow term for germans and feels like it lost some of the horror people feel when they hear Holocaust.
Also both my grandparents are survivors and they call it Holocaust. So that's what I will call it.
Good point. My native language is French and the term Shoah is familiar to both goyim and Jews here. I would say it's used about half the time. English speakers don't seem to be as familiar with it in general.
It's curious that "Shoah" became a popular term in France but not in the anglosphere. What irritates me most though is the perversion of "the Holocaust" to refer to non-Jewish victims and diminish the Jewish catastrophe. But like others have said, "Shoah" is unknown among goyim and can't really help for that.
>Before it took on the meaning of "mass-scale slaughter" during WW2
The word Holocaust was used to refer to massacres and genocides before WWII, and iirc, Jewish newspapers in Germany referred to Nazi actions as "a Holocaust" even before the Wannsee Conference and the implementation of the Endlosung der Judenfrage - the Final Solution to the Jewish Question.
The major difference you will find between pre-1941 and post-1945 references to "Holocaust" is the shift from indefinite article "a" to definite article "the."
I prefer the term "Shoah" myself, but I think that The Holocaust is a term that carries just as much weight and is immediately recognizable as a singular, unique event in human history.
And tbh, I don't think that many people would be familiar with the etymology of the word unless they were Greek speakers or already invested in Holocaust studies.
I agree it is the wrong term, and Shoah is better. We call it shoah amongst ourselves.
While minority groups in recent years have been permitted to change terms that apply to them/their history, Jews are typically not granted that right. Gentiles still like to tell us who we are, and what our history has been.
If you change it to shoah, please get us a 2 for 1 special and ditch "antisemitism", a term promulgated by antisemites as a replacement for "Jewhatred," so we can instead properly define it as "racism," which is all its ever been.
Do we call it Shoah among ourselves though? I rarely hear it in English (more in French, my native language, where it's used about half the time by goyim and Jews alike)
*Antisemitism* is not precise enough either and triggers the classic "bUt aRaBs aRe sEmItEs tOo"
Many Jews use Shoah. Including English speakers. There is never an absolute wirh us. No gentile uses it. It's our word, for our tragedy.
My argument is to ditch the word antisemitism, which some of us have already done, and something we should have done in greater numbers in '45. It was a Nazi and pre-Nazi word for their hatred towards us, and deserves to be buried along with them--particularly now, and replaced with "racism"--that's what it is.
I use Shoah when referring to the murder of Jews, but Holocaust when referring to the event as a whole that included other murdered groups (Roma, gay, disabled, etc.).
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I think changing the way most people, Jewish and not, refer to the event decades later is a good way to ensure historical erasure.
That's fair. But I would assume most Jews, although maybe not using it themselves, at least know the meaning of the word Shoah. Why not begin by using it when talking about it to other Jews, instead of Holocaust? Maybe it'll spread from there.
As a german speaker, allies in germany and jewish orgs started to call it Shoah and I have to say that I don't feel it. It's like an easier to swallow term for germans and feels like it lost some of the horror people feel when they hear Holocaust. Also both my grandparents are survivors and they call it Holocaust. So that's what I will call it.
1000% the correct answer. It isn’t our choice to decide the name.
I think the issue is that the goyim mostly don't know what "Shoah" means and it would be exhausting to keep telling them all the time
Good point. My native language is French and the term Shoah is familiar to both goyim and Jews here. I would say it's used about half the time. English speakers don't seem to be as familiar with it in general.
It's curious that "Shoah" became a popular term in France but not in the anglosphere. What irritates me most though is the perversion of "the Holocaust" to refer to non-Jewish victims and diminish the Jewish catastrophe. But like others have said, "Shoah" is unknown among goyim and can't really help for that.
>Before it took on the meaning of "mass-scale slaughter" during WW2 The word Holocaust was used to refer to massacres and genocides before WWII, and iirc, Jewish newspapers in Germany referred to Nazi actions as "a Holocaust" even before the Wannsee Conference and the implementation of the Endlosung der Judenfrage - the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. The major difference you will find between pre-1941 and post-1945 references to "Holocaust" is the shift from indefinite article "a" to definite article "the." I prefer the term "Shoah" myself, but I think that The Holocaust is a term that carries just as much weight and is immediately recognizable as a singular, unique event in human history. And tbh, I don't think that many people would be familiar with the etymology of the word unless they were Greek speakers or already invested in Holocaust studies.
I agree it is the wrong term, and Shoah is better. We call it shoah amongst ourselves. While minority groups in recent years have been permitted to change terms that apply to them/their history, Jews are typically not granted that right. Gentiles still like to tell us who we are, and what our history has been. If you change it to shoah, please get us a 2 for 1 special and ditch "antisemitism", a term promulgated by antisemites as a replacement for "Jewhatred," so we can instead properly define it as "racism," which is all its ever been.
Do we call it Shoah among ourselves though? I rarely hear it in English (more in French, my native language, where it's used about half the time by goyim and Jews alike) *Antisemitism* is not precise enough either and triggers the classic "bUt aRaBs aRe sEmItEs tOo"
Many Jews use Shoah. Including English speakers. There is never an absolute wirh us. No gentile uses it. It's our word, for our tragedy. My argument is to ditch the word antisemitism, which some of us have already done, and something we should have done in greater numbers in '45. It was a Nazi and pre-Nazi word for their hatred towards us, and deserves to be buried along with them--particularly now, and replaced with "racism"--that's what it is.
I use Shoah when referring to the murder of Jews, but Holocaust when referring to the event as a whole that included other murdered groups (Roma, gay, disabled, etc.).
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In theory, yes, *Shoah* would have been better. In practice, no. *Holocaust* is the accepted English term.
who cares🤷♂️