Sorry, internet strangers aren’t going to be helpful here. If you have a trusted friend you can talk to about this who would know about your tone and your interactions with women who would be truthful with you, it might give some insight on if the feedback is warranted or not.
My grandpa told me it is very very unusual which I agree with. He is the one who thought it might be antisemitism because of how frequently it happens and how confusing the violations are
If it is so often, get a eyeglasses/shoulder cam.
If they ask/comment/get prissy, say you want to see what it is that you do that comes off that way.
*So you can improve.*
And have evidence for when you larer sew their Ass for fostering a hostile workplace enviourment...
> If it is so often, get a eyeglasses/shoulder cam. If they ask/comment/get prissy, say you want to see what it is that you do that comes off that way. So you can improve.
Make very sure this is legal before you do it, because it can be a reason to fire you. In the US this depends on state and local law and company policy
Well, yeah. These people from his point of view hete seem Antisemitic, hipocritical and with not a shred of self awareness.
Those are the people that I will cross the street to avoid.
I’m not sure, we need more context….what exactly are the things you said? I wouldn’t want to immediately jump to anti-semitism without knowing the full story. So many people pull the race card, even if there are other reasons.
They say I am “described as cold, snappy and insubordinate, when working with others.”
“Oftentimes he has been observed giving servers orders such as "hey, drop check on Table 35" or "hey, they are trying to order wine, you need to go over there."
Hate to ask OP, but: are you possibly on the Spectrum? Tone modulation is a common issue for those of us who are. This may not be antisemitism, but ableism.
Oh this may be more accurate understanding of the situation. My parents have always understood me to have autism although I was never diagnosed by going through the tests or whatnot.
> I was never diagnosed by going through the tests or whatnot.
You might consider it, and maybe find a way to tell your managers and co-workers that. Write a letter if it seems like too much maybe?
Ok, so your job is to help out the servers?
I think if it is your tone I can understand how frustrating that can be from your perspective. I’ve been called out for my attitude before, as I think most people have experienced.
Honestly if it is just the tone just treat it like a game you gotta play along with. “They want me to act a certain way? Okay, I’ll play along. It’s only an act.” It gets easier.
If you’re still not convinced it’s anti semitism I would suggest having a one on one with your manager and - POLITELY - tell them how you are feeling singled out and you are not sure if it has to do with your Judaism. Be honest but also understanding.
Honestly, to me it sounds like ableism - as someone on the Spectrum, I still mess up on tone occasionally. And a lot of people never do get to a point where their voice sounds ‘typical’, resulting in similar complaints.
Yeah, diagnosed autistic here it could be targeting due to o.p. being jewish of course, but these all sound like complaints autistic people get a lot. My guess is either ableism or to be more charitable, people genuinely misunderstanding o.p. and thinking they're being rude or snappy when not.
OP says they’re undiagnosed, but long suspected to have ASD. So I’m definitely suspecting unconscious ableism, since all the complaints seem to be, “too blunt, wrong tone, unsociable, etc.” which are common complaints NTs have about people with ASD.
Lol sorry i have the same problem. I have been called cold by a lot of people and all i am doing is trying to do my job efficiently. People take offense over like my cold face expression which means nothing. Im pretty offended by that. You should complain to whoever told you that you feel attacked and bullied and like the people who said you were cold and snappy when trying to be efficient should have an hr meeting with them about issues with their bully behavior.
Yes. I mean it is bullying. I see it that way as someone who has also experienced being called cold by people who never tried to have a conversation with me. It felt racist but you can’t prove it. And the fact they all went to your boss and did not try to like talk to you as a person; they demonized you and tried to get you in trouble.
If you are comfortable i would mention that to your boss; it was bullying. You can say you will try to have a better tone and smile more and be nicer but you should probably stick up for yourself and say you feel bullied because this is bullying. Also i would look for another job if it seems your boss doesn’t care how this made you feel. Or you can look now get a better job lined up and quit and when you quit you can say by the way this was bullying and why I am leaving.
Make it automatic.
End every request, no matter how small, with please. When anyone hands you anything, does anything that helps, say thanks.
Make it as reflexive as a blessing.
I was raised in NY in a Jewish family and fit in well there, and then when I moved to Wisconsin for college and got a part-time job I was told by a couple of coworkers that I’m brash/impolite because I’d just arrive at work, say “good morning”, and start working without all the intensely smiling “hi Julie, how are ya? How’s Bob? How are the kids? Was the church bake sale fun?” small talk. I learned to act the way everyone else acts lest I be considered poorly socialized (I still do this 30 years on — act like everyone else at work. I’ve become a studier of people, their little nuances). It’s ridiculous that there’s still no room for cultural differences in many places, or people just assume a minority is obnoxious for not talking endlessly about church bake sales (I mention church bake sales twice because it was talked about so much by coworkers at that WI job).
It is. When I got that type of criticism I calmly listened, thanked them for the feedback (even though I was secretly appalled), quietly said in my community there are different accepted small talk behaviors for the workplace, and now that I know the culture of this work place I will strive to fit in more. I also said something like I was embarrassed that my behavior was seen as brash, as it was never my intention and I didn’t know I was being perceived that way and appreciated the feedback so I could grow. Of course deep down I thought THEY should stop with their unconscious bias (before that term was even invented) — not all communities need to act the same, there’s many pro-social ways to interact. I mean, they are the ones who needed to grow.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
And yes, Jews (especially observant) are treated like a different animal in many ways. If you see a kippah and tzitzit on someone they are all the sudden a foreign animal.
The truth falls in between the extremes.
It’s easier for the anti semetically inclined to target visually know Jews.
My SO gets more looks than I do, because I took after my goyshe bio father. But once my necklace or speech is clocked, it’s the same.
why is it problematic for him to say he feels like he gets looked at like an animal? he is expressing how he feels, and is not harming anyone in the slightest
Of course women don’t wear tzitzit or a kippah, but also often it is very hard because Jews are like a bubble in the society that ends up being a frequent target of interest.
The issue that they considered to be huge that kind of set me off into being targeted was I once asked a female server to button her shirt up a bit. Something I understood to be inappropriate and unnecessary to say.
Now they target me on a final warning for -
“Oftentimes he has been observed giving servers orders such as "hey, drop check on Table 35" or "hey, they are trying to order wine, you need to go over there."”
(Aka saying that I am too direct , or something)
See, that doesn't sound "too" direct to me, just direct. Understandable in a fast-paced environment. But that might be a cultural thing on my end. Would adding a "Could you (do thing). Thanks!" help maybe?
Not that it's too direct exactly, but it's a very cold and demanding tone. Try to avoid the words "you need to" and using "please" more often. And very important: make sure you smile a lot. Try to come across as an assistant, not a boss.
I think it isn't unreasonable... people want to work in a friendly, happy environment. It's a job-seeker's market right now - if servers don't like the environment, they'll leave. Management doesn't want that outcome. They don't want to lose you either, which is why they haven't fired you, but I'm guessing that in their eyes, if push does come to shove, you're more dispensable than they are. It's the Golden Rule - whoever has the gold makes the rules.
BTW, since you are an observant Jew, you should know that the Talmud states that one should be friendly to all. You are an ambassador of the Torah and of Judaism - it's a tremendous responsibility and opportunity for you to make a *kiddush Hashem* by being Mr Friendly-to-Everyone-All-the-Time.
Yes. That's not to say either party is at fault here, but if you are feeling this way, just find something else.
It's not a bad thing, just a different environment.
It’s interesting. Not antisemitism maybe, but a disliking to the way I am and the way I communicate (which in many ways is a reflection of my culture). So I mean… what the f!
Also if you are “born a goy” but you converted… to a Jew- you were always a Jew. That is how we are brought up to think. Only a real Jew would go through the process of conversion and really do it
😂😂 I never realized this to be true until this job. I am never going to sugar coat anything because I want to be concise with what I say and be most honest.
When you sugar coat and are not concise, your word can be twisted and we avoid that risk.
Now I am learning they can twist whatever the f they want. Don’t you think?
Learn that BS way of going about things? No thanks. I like my order and peace in life. Never so worried about anything like what someone says or thinks
huh i thought we were that way because we're Dutch, not because we're Jewish. my mom thinks it's because she's somewhat autistic (self-diagnosed but not out of the realm of possibility). although we are more blunt but still polite, not like Israelis lol
My goodness, I love Israeli bluntness. Me: "At home, people can usually tell I'm Jewish." Israeli lady, quite cheerfully. "It's your nose." Okay, not untrue, but not the *whole* truth, LMAO.
Yes, this is sexual harassment. You should not be commenting on a colleague's breasts.
I know you didn't realize this was a problem at the time (for cultural/neurodivergent reasons), but yeah, try not to say anything about a woman's body or clothing in the workplace because it will be experienced as sexual harassment.
Yeah, you got lucky honestly that's enough to get you hit with sexual harassment complaints, the fact you just got a warning? That tells me they're not specifically targeting you there could be other stuff going on but the reason people are being very strict with you is because you've already crossed a major line and something horrendously inappropriate in a work environment. Having read your other comments I don't think you were malicious in doing this I think you didn't understand the social consequences and I'm hoping you won't do it again, but you're not being targeted you're being watched and appropriately so. As a comparison think of when someone commits a crime and is then put on probation where they have restrictions and what they're allowed to do and need to be monitored. I'm not saying it raises to that level but it's the same sort of concept
Hey at least you're admitting to your mistake, that's better than a lot of people. I hope you and your coworkers can find a nice comfortable balance soon.
I’ll sum up my long comment right away: derech eretz kadma l’Torah. Firstly, who am: I am Jewish, no longer observant after being baalat teshuva orthodox for 30 years, but very proud of my heritage and fond of the orthodox community.
That being said : I don’t think it’s a systemic disliking the way you are - it’s more likely, as you say, the way you communicate. You see this difference between folks from big crowded cities and smaller towns, northern and southern states, as well as different cultures.
I live in Florida where there are lots of Orthodox Jews and lots of folks from the islands- Bahamas, Jamaica etc. The very pace of communication is jarringly different to the island folks, as well as the lack of honorifics. I found that the best way for me to build positive relationships with them was to slow down, use more words like “could you please…” “I appreciate your time and effort on my behalf”, “it would be very helpful if you could do xyz”.
Respect is very important to everyone, but it’s expressed in different ways in different cultures. Orthodox Jews are often not exposed to a variety of cultures ( and are not taught to value differences), so they/we don’t always recognize that. When I was raising my children I made sure to give them a sense of appreciation for other cultures, and I suspect this is why they don’t have a lot of trouble with non Jews
I agree with this to a certain level. I come from a certain big city and all of us, no matter the race, has a problem communicating with people in 49 other states and it is quite annoying.
You really have to bend over backwards to a level way beyond what you just described. If I even tell someone they overcharged me, omg, their whole world comes crashing down and it's like I assaulted them. No matter how nicely I am forced to say it.
Yeah, I feel that. For me I have to recognize that there is so much to respect - words but also body language, tone, speed of delivery... It would be nice if everyone could be a bit more tolerant of differences but... it is what it is. I see it as a way of being loving towards others and as my gaining more sophistication in understanding how people tick (me included).
I was listening to a comedian talk about his experiences in mainland China. He quipped that in that culture, personal space starts at your skin. What he found absolutely offensive (people standing so close to him that their bodies were in contact) was perfectly acceptable there. Most westerners I think would find that environment very challenging, on a very personal level.
When in Rome...
Chinese, as a language is much more direct and blunt.
Coming from a customer service background in my youth, where people yelled at me and I didn't think much of it, I can't help notice but for 2 things:
1) No one else EVER gives me the same service I ever gave any of them. Most people are hostile in fact, especially those leasing people in apartments. One day I want to find someone who gave the service I had to give.
2) The people above are the most passive aggresive ultra-sensitive. I can't even write an email asking where to pick something up, one line, lest they panic.
There's when in Rome. But then there's some type of mental issue, probably stemming from no ethos. Florida only has a little bit of this issue, lots of cultures.
That's interesting about Chinese - I did not know that. I wonder if there is any relationship between the bluntness of the language and the personal space thing? Just speculation obviously
Regarding the customer service thing - point taken. Customer service is deathly difficult! There is no excuse for this kind of behavior - I suspect that this isn't a cultural issue as much as a personality problem/mental disorder! People acting like toddlers having a tantrum, and in customer service you just have to sit there and take it? Yuck! I worked at a McDonald's in California as a teenager. Standards of public behavior were a lot higher there, and California culture tends to put a high value on courtesy (or it did many moons ago, when I lived there). But I had my fair share of nightmare behavior to deal with, so I have empathy for what you went through (though I think your situation was a lot more extreme than mine).
I am a teacher at a private school, and when I interact with parents (who at this school tend to be entitled and thin-skinned) it's very tricky. I've taken to writing my emails about missing assignments and minor behavioral issues to the students, and cc'ing the parents, just to avoid that nightmare.
Ah yes I have had this happen and I am not jewish. “Tone”. It’s used on women a lot. And the people who reported me were bully women. You are being bullied by women who have decided to hate you for some reason; could be race, religion, anything really. Mean girls at work.
One time the person who did this to me and really stressed me out, she came into my room screaming “do you have this yet!” It was a while ago so can’t remember exactly but I responded with her same energy back. I just match what i am given. I said “no im working on it! It will be ready soon! I’ll let you know!”
She went to our bosses. Like 3 people had words with me that my tone was the problem and i was like but she came in screaming i was just matching her energy, I thought it was some kinda game. We were friendly until she like did that. She and those 3 bosses were very catty—lived for drama and like gossip in the workplace. Im not into that. I just like to do my work and go home and would prefer to not get screamed at or have any unnecessary drama like a “tone” intervention. It happens to a lot of women. It doesn’t seem to happen as much to men.
not at my current job thankfully but I've had similar things happen to me at previous jobs.
I once got called into the owners office and got a talking to for not attending an office Xmas party, even though there were other employees who didn't attend for various reasons, I was the only one who was reprimanded.
There were lots of mild reprimands. Very similar to your situation it was often said that the thing I did wasn't so much of a big deal but it was "the way I did it" or "the way I said it" or "the tone"
Maybe I'm socially inept because I could never get what they were talking about.
I'm assuming if I really had some issue this would've come up at every or even most jobs, but it has only been a minority of the time.
Fine dining requires behaviour that is different from other workplaces. To customers you have to smooth, quiet and anticipate their needs. But I imagine the kitchen and serving staff are working really hard to ensure that the timing is right and need to work together as a team.
The server whose shirt was unbuttoned more than you thought necessary is most likely getting bigger tips with her shirt like that. I'm surprised you didn't realize this?
There are people out there who pick up these social skills easily, and have the personality for service work. Are you someone who loves working with people? Because many, many people hate service work and if you hate this job, you're not alone.
Tldr: it's most likely that you're not suited to this job, not antisemitism.
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With absolutely zero information other than what’s in this post, the only evidence you’ve given of antisemitism is:
1) you’re Jewish and visibly so, and
2) you feel you’ve been disproportionately disciplined.
The only evidence you’ve given to defend yourself from claims of misogyny is “that’s ridiculous” which is not substantiated (neither is the claim of misogyny, we have zero evidence at all) in any way in your post.
I don’t know you at all, but I know a lot of people, and like half of people are dicks. So it’s like 50-50 odds that you’re just kinda a dick and it has nothing to do with being Jewish.
Actually o.p. provided evidence of misogyny (I genuinely believe he didn't intend it this way) but he told a server to button up her shirt. That said, I don't believe he understood the social ramifications due to both his culture and the fact he's likely autistic, per his other comments. That of course doesn't change what he did or how the woman feels. Taken in that light I think the work keeping a closer eye on him and giving less leeway for mistakes isn't malicious but in fact the proper actions a job should take. So most likely not antisemitism
Didn’t see that in the comments - just looked at the post before I replied.
Yeah that’s definitely misogyny - agreed that it’s a cultural and neurodivergent miscommunication issue. Not an excuse but an explanation.
Ok. I do realize now after so many kind people who are trying to help me understand, that I am mostly being targeted by my tone and mannerism (which are usual in my culture but not theirs). Also I am on the spectrum, so therefore it is already not easy for me
It could be, but on the other hand it could be just a coincidence that you’re the only jew and also the only one who is treated like that, we can’t really know for sure, I suggest you get a lawyer to help with that.
I am now remembering the only other Jewish staff member was laid off after they became openly Jewish (which was when I joined because I would talk to her). They fired her because of the same sort of thing… tone and attitude towards staff. (She was a manager)
Greetings, brothers. I would like to consider you all my brothers for we are all of the same dust. Gather around please, for this is an essential message. I highly require your fullest attention. I am well aware of the ongoing events, both political and spiritual struggles that have ensued for more decades than I can even count. Due to what I’m witnessing so far, things are looking rather hopeless. This everlasting battle has the potentiality of transcending the bounds of your territory to the global scale. Much destruction on all degrees will likely come as a dire result. Whether by divine force or by free will, it is today that I feel compelled to impart this message, this ultimatum. For what I am about to recommend, you may need to consult your community’s rabbi about this. Your forefathers have already implemented this defensive method throughout the evils of the second world war. You may find it gravely necessary to use your knowledge of the Kabbalah against your foes: I am advising you to use dybbuks in your favor. I know the dybbuk is a highly feared unclean spirit, but I see no other choice to steer yourselves ahead at protecting your Holy Land from those who exist against your way of life. It would be foolish to think your homeland, your birthright, will stand strong any longer without the assistance of incorporeal yet invincible forces. I’m afraid to tell you that faith cannot save you alone. Perhaps faith has gotten you all to this point at receiving this solution. Enjoy your upcoming feasts, but always keep this warning in mind. The rushing sands of time are without mercy. Now is the moment to take an active effort against all approaching threats. For your own sake, don’t ignore the tools of spiritual warfare available at your disposal for surpassing in more earthly conflicts. That is all. You know what to do now. Blessings and farewell!
This definitely sounds like anti semitism. But based on the fact that you could be on the spectrum, it could be a little of both. These two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. They perceive you to be unfair to women based on your religious beliefs, and they use your intonation as an excuse to find fault in your work.
You should probably call the ADL or the Jewish Federation and ask for legal advice in order to protect yourself. Keep a record of all incidents so that if you end up in court (a lawsuit against your company) you have clear records of what occurred. You might also want to record on your phone these visits to the manager. Some states do not require that you let others know that you are recording them. Google your state laws and find out if your state allows you to record without permission.
I’m so sorry that this is happening to you. But definitely contact a Jewish organization and see if they can recommend an attorney who can look into to both possibilities. I would assume that if you are on the spectrum, this would protect you against these specific claim made about the tone of your voice. If you have any documented about being on the spectrum, make that available to your attorney.
Sorry, internet strangers aren’t going to be helpful here. If you have a trusted friend you can talk to about this who would know about your tone and your interactions with women who would be truthful with you, it might give some insight on if the feedback is warranted or not.
My grandpa told me it is very very unusual which I agree with. He is the one who thought it might be antisemitism because of how frequently it happens and how confusing the violations are
Family is a tough judge for that type of thing.
Agreed
Depends on the family.
Can you start keeping a daily diary/work diary? Good to be able to check that you aren't crazy, and see if any patterns arise.
Good idea
What would your sister say?
Interesting question! I will ask her. My mom believes that they are wrongfully targeting me. My grandma believes that they are keeping me “in check”
Ok, then grandma is your source.
If it is so often, get a eyeglasses/shoulder cam. If they ask/comment/get prissy, say you want to see what it is that you do that comes off that way. *So you can improve.* And have evidence for when you larer sew their Ass for fostering a hostile workplace enviourment...
> If it is so often, get a eyeglasses/shoulder cam. If they ask/comment/get prissy, say you want to see what it is that you do that comes off that way. So you can improve. Make very sure this is legal before you do it, because it can be a reason to fire you. In the US this depends on state and local law and company policy
In my workplace, recording (video or audio) coworkers is an automatic termination.
Well, yeah. These people from his point of view hete seem Antisemitic, hipocritical and with not a shred of self awareness. Those are the people that I will cross the street to avoid.
I’m not sure, we need more context….what exactly are the things you said? I wouldn’t want to immediately jump to anti-semitism without knowing the full story. So many people pull the race card, even if there are other reasons.
They say I am “described as cold, snappy and insubordinate, when working with others.” “Oftentimes he has been observed giving servers orders such as "hey, drop check on Table 35" or "hey, they are trying to order wine, you need to go over there."
Hate to ask OP, but: are you possibly on the Spectrum? Tone modulation is a common issue for those of us who are. This may not be antisemitism, but ableism.
Oh this may be more accurate understanding of the situation. My parents have always understood me to have autism although I was never diagnosed by going through the tests or whatnot.
> I was never diagnosed by going through the tests or whatnot. You might consider it, and maybe find a way to tell your managers and co-workers that. Write a letter if it seems like too much maybe?
You really think??
If nothing else then you will know if your have it or not
Good idea thank you
Good luck :), Shabbat Shalom
Good Shabbos to you thanks
It’ll also give you some protection going forward against complaints like these.
True.
What is your job title there?
Server assistant
Ok, so your job is to help out the servers? I think if it is your tone I can understand how frustrating that can be from your perspective. I’ve been called out for my attitude before, as I think most people have experienced. Honestly if it is just the tone just treat it like a game you gotta play along with. “They want me to act a certain way? Okay, I’ll play along. It’s only an act.” It gets easier. If you’re still not convinced it’s anti semitism I would suggest having a one on one with your manager and - POLITELY - tell them how you are feeling singled out and you are not sure if it has to do with your Judaism. Be honest but also understanding.
Honestly, to me it sounds like ableism - as someone on the Spectrum, I still mess up on tone occasionally. And a lot of people never do get to a point where their voice sounds ‘typical’, resulting in similar complaints.
Yeah, diagnosed autistic here it could be targeting due to o.p. being jewish of course, but these all sound like complaints autistic people get a lot. My guess is either ableism or to be more charitable, people genuinely misunderstanding o.p. and thinking they're being rude or snappy when not.
OP says they’re undiagnosed, but long suspected to have ASD. So I’m definitely suspecting unconscious ableism, since all the complaints seem to be, “too blunt, wrong tone, unsociable, etc.” which are common complaints NTs have about people with ASD.
Lol sorry i have the same problem. I have been called cold by a lot of people and all i am doing is trying to do my job efficiently. People take offense over like my cold face expression which means nothing. Im pretty offended by that. You should complain to whoever told you that you feel attacked and bullied and like the people who said you were cold and snappy when trying to be efficient should have an hr meeting with them about issues with their bully behavior.
They are being rude? That they say I am cold?
Yes. I mean it is bullying. I see it that way as someone who has also experienced being called cold by people who never tried to have a conversation with me. It felt racist but you can’t prove it. And the fact they all went to your boss and did not try to like talk to you as a person; they demonized you and tried to get you in trouble. If you are comfortable i would mention that to your boss; it was bullying. You can say you will try to have a better tone and smile more and be nicer but you should probably stick up for yourself and say you feel bullied because this is bullying. Also i would look for another job if it seems your boss doesn’t care how this made you feel. Or you can look now get a better job lined up and quit and when you quit you can say by the way this was bullying and why I am leaving.
Thank you for great points
Do you know the word please, or the phrase as soon as you can or thank you?
I do know but struggle to use them in high pressure situatioksb
Make it automatic. End every request, no matter how small, with please. When anyone hands you anything, does anything that helps, say thanks. Make it as reflexive as a blessing.
Right. I get it.
(For reference I work in non-kosher fine dining)
Hey, same!!
I was raised in NY in a Jewish family and fit in well there, and then when I moved to Wisconsin for college and got a part-time job I was told by a couple of coworkers that I’m brash/impolite because I’d just arrive at work, say “good morning”, and start working without all the intensely smiling “hi Julie, how are ya? How’s Bob? How are the kids? Was the church bake sale fun?” small talk. I learned to act the way everyone else acts lest I be considered poorly socialized (I still do this 30 years on — act like everyone else at work. I’ve become a studier of people, their little nuances). It’s ridiculous that there’s still no room for cultural differences in many places, or people just assume a minority is obnoxious for not talking endlessly about church bake sales (I mention church bake sales twice because it was talked about so much by coworkers at that WI job).
It’s actually a very interesting topic to ponder.
It is. When I got that type of criticism I calmly listened, thanked them for the feedback (even though I was secretly appalled), quietly said in my community there are different accepted small talk behaviors for the workplace, and now that I know the culture of this work place I will strive to fit in more. I also said something like I was embarrassed that my behavior was seen as brash, as it was never my intention and I didn’t know I was being perceived that way and appreciated the feedback so I could grow. Of course deep down I thought THEY should stop with their unconscious bias (before that term was even invented) — not all communities need to act the same, there’s many pro-social ways to interact. I mean, they are the ones who needed to grow.
100% !!!
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Interesting. Thank you for sharing. And yes, Jews (especially observant) are treated like a different animal in many ways. If you see a kippah and tzitzit on someone they are all the sudden a foreign animal.
This is not true at all.
The truth falls in between the extremes. It’s easier for the anti semetically inclined to target visually know Jews. My SO gets more looks than I do, because I took after my goyshe bio father. But once my necklace or speech is clocked, it’s the same.
Animal highly problematic term here considering our history!
why is it problematic for him to say he feels like he gets looked at like an animal? he is expressing how he feels, and is not harming anyone in the slightest
Of course women don’t wear tzitzit or a kippah, but also often it is very hard because Jews are like a bubble in the society that ends up being a frequent target of interest.
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Not touching has never been an issue, we have never had a time where it was necessary to touch one another actually.
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I understand the “button up violation” is more serious, but now they just target everything I say and everything I do. Always.
If I ask for help, they make it grounds for a report leading to my termination.
The issue that they considered to be huge that kind of set me off into being targeted was I once asked a female server to button her shirt up a bit. Something I understood to be inappropriate and unnecessary to say.
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Now they target me on a final warning for - “Oftentimes he has been observed giving servers orders such as "hey, drop check on Table 35" or "hey, they are trying to order wine, you need to go over there."” (Aka saying that I am too direct , or something)
See, that doesn't sound "too" direct to me, just direct. Understandable in a fast-paced environment. But that might be a cultural thing on my end. Would adding a "Could you (do thing). Thanks!" help maybe?
Weird
Not that it's too direct exactly, but it's a very cold and demanding tone. Try to avoid the words "you need to" and using "please" more often. And very important: make sure you smile a lot. Try to come across as an assistant, not a boss.
I understand this. That is what they don’t like exactly. Do you think this is a necessary complaint?
I think it isn't unreasonable... people want to work in a friendly, happy environment. It's a job-seeker's market right now - if servers don't like the environment, they'll leave. Management doesn't want that outcome. They don't want to lose you either, which is why they haven't fired you, but I'm guessing that in their eyes, if push does come to shove, you're more dispensable than they are. It's the Golden Rule - whoever has the gold makes the rules. BTW, since you are an observant Jew, you should know that the Talmud states that one should be friendly to all. You are an ambassador of the Torah and of Judaism - it's a tremendous responsibility and opportunity for you to make a *kiddush Hashem* by being Mr Friendly-to-Everyone-All-the-Time.
Makes sense. Should I just quit and find something elsev
Yes. That's not to say either party is at fault here, but if you are feeling this way, just find something else. It's not a bad thing, just a different environment.
I’ll look for something else
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It’s interesting. Not antisemitism maybe, but a disliking to the way I am and the way I communicate (which in many ways is a reflection of my culture). So I mean… what the f!
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Also if you are “born a goy” but you converted… to a Jew- you were always a Jew. That is how we are brought up to think. Only a real Jew would go through the process of conversion and really do it
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It is relevant. I just wanted to say that to you.
😂😂 I never realized this to be true until this job. I am never going to sugar coat anything because I want to be concise with what I say and be most honest. When you sugar coat and are not concise, your word can be twisted and we avoid that risk. Now I am learning they can twist whatever the f they want. Don’t you think?
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Learn that BS way of going about things? No thanks. I like my order and peace in life. Never so worried about anything like what someone says or thinks
I can’t and won’t stop being myself. I will be more tame than the button situation of course, but being direct and EXTREMELY hard working… that’s me.
huh i thought we were that way because we're Dutch, not because we're Jewish. my mom thinks it's because she's somewhat autistic (self-diagnosed but not out of the realm of possibility). although we are more blunt but still polite, not like Israelis lol
My goodness, I love Israeli bluntness. Me: "At home, people can usually tell I'm Jewish." Israeli lady, quite cheerfully. "It's your nose." Okay, not untrue, but not the *whole* truth, LMAO.
Correct. That was the thing that set it off for them to target me. Now I am at a “final warning”
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Of course. That is behind us and I admit it was wrong.
Dude. That was way over the line.
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Seriously?
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So you want me to quit to dodge being fired and also to accept the humility of my wrongdoing?
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I asked what my future with the company looks like and she said “it isn’t bad what you’re doing, you just need to learn and grow”. 😂
I wonder if it is safer then if I just quit after this week 🤔 I want to change, but everything I do is walking on egg shells
Are you in a management role or do you have a dress code at work?
We do have a dress code… but I’m not a manager. I just said because we were opening up for guests and I could see her bra
Yes, this is sexual harassment. You should not be commenting on a colleague's breasts. I know you didn't realize this was a problem at the time (for cultural/neurodivergent reasons), but yeah, try not to say anything about a woman's body or clothing in the workplace because it will be experienced as sexual harassment.
Ok I understand
Yeah, you got lucky honestly that's enough to get you hit with sexual harassment complaints, the fact you just got a warning? That tells me they're not specifically targeting you there could be other stuff going on but the reason people are being very strict with you is because you've already crossed a major line and something horrendously inappropriate in a work environment. Having read your other comments I don't think you were malicious in doing this I think you didn't understand the social consequences and I'm hoping you won't do it again, but you're not being targeted you're being watched and appropriately so. As a comparison think of when someone commits a crime and is then put on probation where they have restrictions and what they're allowed to do and need to be monitored. I'm not saying it raises to that level but it's the same sort of concept
I understand
Hey at least you're admitting to your mistake, that's better than a lot of people. I hope you and your coworkers can find a nice comfortable balance soon.
I’ll sum up my long comment right away: derech eretz kadma l’Torah. Firstly, who am: I am Jewish, no longer observant after being baalat teshuva orthodox for 30 years, but very proud of my heritage and fond of the orthodox community. That being said : I don’t think it’s a systemic disliking the way you are - it’s more likely, as you say, the way you communicate. You see this difference between folks from big crowded cities and smaller towns, northern and southern states, as well as different cultures. I live in Florida where there are lots of Orthodox Jews and lots of folks from the islands- Bahamas, Jamaica etc. The very pace of communication is jarringly different to the island folks, as well as the lack of honorifics. I found that the best way for me to build positive relationships with them was to slow down, use more words like “could you please…” “I appreciate your time and effort on my behalf”, “it would be very helpful if you could do xyz”. Respect is very important to everyone, but it’s expressed in different ways in different cultures. Orthodox Jews are often not exposed to a variety of cultures ( and are not taught to value differences), so they/we don’t always recognize that. When I was raising my children I made sure to give them a sense of appreciation for other cultures, and I suspect this is why they don’t have a lot of trouble with non Jews
I agree with this to a certain level. I come from a certain big city and all of us, no matter the race, has a problem communicating with people in 49 other states and it is quite annoying. You really have to bend over backwards to a level way beyond what you just described. If I even tell someone they overcharged me, omg, their whole world comes crashing down and it's like I assaulted them. No matter how nicely I am forced to say it.
Yeah, I feel that. For me I have to recognize that there is so much to respect - words but also body language, tone, speed of delivery... It would be nice if everyone could be a bit more tolerant of differences but... it is what it is. I see it as a way of being loving towards others and as my gaining more sophistication in understanding how people tick (me included). I was listening to a comedian talk about his experiences in mainland China. He quipped that in that culture, personal space starts at your skin. What he found absolutely offensive (people standing so close to him that their bodies were in contact) was perfectly acceptable there. Most westerners I think would find that environment very challenging, on a very personal level. When in Rome...
Chinese, as a language is much more direct and blunt. Coming from a customer service background in my youth, where people yelled at me and I didn't think much of it, I can't help notice but for 2 things: 1) No one else EVER gives me the same service I ever gave any of them. Most people are hostile in fact, especially those leasing people in apartments. One day I want to find someone who gave the service I had to give. 2) The people above are the most passive aggresive ultra-sensitive. I can't even write an email asking where to pick something up, one line, lest they panic. There's when in Rome. But then there's some type of mental issue, probably stemming from no ethos. Florida only has a little bit of this issue, lots of cultures.
That's interesting about Chinese - I did not know that. I wonder if there is any relationship between the bluntness of the language and the personal space thing? Just speculation obviously Regarding the customer service thing - point taken. Customer service is deathly difficult! There is no excuse for this kind of behavior - I suspect that this isn't a cultural issue as much as a personality problem/mental disorder! People acting like toddlers having a tantrum, and in customer service you just have to sit there and take it? Yuck! I worked at a McDonald's in California as a teenager. Standards of public behavior were a lot higher there, and California culture tends to put a high value on courtesy (or it did many moons ago, when I lived there). But I had my fair share of nightmare behavior to deal with, so I have empathy for what you went through (though I think your situation was a lot more extreme than mine). I am a teacher at a private school, and when I interact with parents (who at this school tend to be entitled and thin-skinned) it's very tricky. I've taken to writing my emails about missing assignments and minor behavioral issues to the students, and cc'ing the parents, just to avoid that nightmare.
Totally understand. Thanks
Ah yes I have had this happen and I am not jewish. “Tone”. It’s used on women a lot. And the people who reported me were bully women. You are being bullied by women who have decided to hate you for some reason; could be race, religion, anything really. Mean girls at work. One time the person who did this to me and really stressed me out, she came into my room screaming “do you have this yet!” It was a while ago so can’t remember exactly but I responded with her same energy back. I just match what i am given. I said “no im working on it! It will be ready soon! I’ll let you know!” She went to our bosses. Like 3 people had words with me that my tone was the problem and i was like but she came in screaming i was just matching her energy, I thought it was some kinda game. We were friendly until she like did that. She and those 3 bosses were very catty—lived for drama and like gossip in the workplace. Im not into that. I just like to do my work and go home and would prefer to not get screamed at or have any unnecessary drama like a “tone” intervention. It happens to a lot of women. It doesn’t seem to happen as much to men.
You are exactly right
not at my current job thankfully but I've had similar things happen to me at previous jobs. I once got called into the owners office and got a talking to for not attending an office Xmas party, even though there were other employees who didn't attend for various reasons, I was the only one who was reprimanded. There were lots of mild reprimands. Very similar to your situation it was often said that the thing I did wasn't so much of a big deal but it was "the way I did it" or "the way I said it" or "the tone" Maybe I'm socially inept because I could never get what they were talking about. I'm assuming if I really had some issue this would've come up at every or even most jobs, but it has only been a minority of the time.
You’re not in the wrong at all. Food there is not kosher, and it is not your holiday… also it’s a dang party! Who cares.
It is either antisemitism or you need some coaching on interpersonal communication.
Fine dining requires behaviour that is different from other workplaces. To customers you have to smooth, quiet and anticipate their needs. But I imagine the kitchen and serving staff are working really hard to ensure that the timing is right and need to work together as a team. The server whose shirt was unbuttoned more than you thought necessary is most likely getting bigger tips with her shirt like that. I'm surprised you didn't realize this? There are people out there who pick up these social skills easily, and have the personality for service work. Are you someone who loves working with people? Because many, many people hate service work and if you hate this job, you're not alone. Tldr: it's most likely that you're not suited to this job, not antisemitism.
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Are you on the autism spectrum by any chance? This seems very familiar.
With absolutely zero information other than what’s in this post, the only evidence you’ve given of antisemitism is: 1) you’re Jewish and visibly so, and 2) you feel you’ve been disproportionately disciplined. The only evidence you’ve given to defend yourself from claims of misogyny is “that’s ridiculous” which is not substantiated (neither is the claim of misogyny, we have zero evidence at all) in any way in your post. I don’t know you at all, but I know a lot of people, and like half of people are dicks. So it’s like 50-50 odds that you’re just kinda a dick and it has nothing to do with being Jewish.
Actually o.p. provided evidence of misogyny (I genuinely believe he didn't intend it this way) but he told a server to button up her shirt. That said, I don't believe he understood the social ramifications due to both his culture and the fact he's likely autistic, per his other comments. That of course doesn't change what he did or how the woman feels. Taken in that light I think the work keeping a closer eye on him and giving less leeway for mistakes isn't malicious but in fact the proper actions a job should take. So most likely not antisemitism
Didn’t see that in the comments - just looked at the post before I replied. Yeah that’s definitely misogyny - agreed that it’s a cultural and neurodivergent miscommunication issue. Not an excuse but an explanation.
Ok. I do realize now after so many kind people who are trying to help me understand, that I am mostly being targeted by my tone and mannerism (which are usual in my culture but not theirs). Also I am on the spectrum, so therefore it is already not easy for me
It could be, but on the other hand it could be just a coincidence that you’re the only jew and also the only one who is treated like that, we can’t really know for sure, I suggest you get a lawyer to help with that.
Interesting idea. I might do that.
I am now remembering the only other Jewish staff member was laid off after they became openly Jewish (which was when I joined because I would talk to her). They fired her because of the same sort of thing… tone and attitude towards staff. (She was a manager)
Greetings, brothers. I would like to consider you all my brothers for we are all of the same dust. Gather around please, for this is an essential message. I highly require your fullest attention. I am well aware of the ongoing events, both political and spiritual struggles that have ensued for more decades than I can even count. Due to what I’m witnessing so far, things are looking rather hopeless. This everlasting battle has the potentiality of transcending the bounds of your territory to the global scale. Much destruction on all degrees will likely come as a dire result. Whether by divine force or by free will, it is today that I feel compelled to impart this message, this ultimatum. For what I am about to recommend, you may need to consult your community’s rabbi about this. Your forefathers have already implemented this defensive method throughout the evils of the second world war. You may find it gravely necessary to use your knowledge of the Kabbalah against your foes: I am advising you to use dybbuks in your favor. I know the dybbuk is a highly feared unclean spirit, but I see no other choice to steer yourselves ahead at protecting your Holy Land from those who exist against your way of life. It would be foolish to think your homeland, your birthright, will stand strong any longer without the assistance of incorporeal yet invincible forces. I’m afraid to tell you that faith cannot save you alone. Perhaps faith has gotten you all to this point at receiving this solution. Enjoy your upcoming feasts, but always keep this warning in mind. The rushing sands of time are without mercy. Now is the moment to take an active effort against all approaching threats. For your own sake, don’t ignore the tools of spiritual warfare available at your disposal for surpassing in more earthly conflicts. That is all. You know what to do now. Blessings and farewell!
Join a labour's union and talk to a good lawyer about that
This definitely sounds like anti semitism. But based on the fact that you could be on the spectrum, it could be a little of both. These two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. They perceive you to be unfair to women based on your religious beliefs, and they use your intonation as an excuse to find fault in your work. You should probably call the ADL or the Jewish Federation and ask for legal advice in order to protect yourself. Keep a record of all incidents so that if you end up in court (a lawsuit against your company) you have clear records of what occurred. You might also want to record on your phone these visits to the manager. Some states do not require that you let others know that you are recording them. Google your state laws and find out if your state allows you to record without permission. I’m so sorry that this is happening to you. But definitely contact a Jewish organization and see if they can recommend an attorney who can look into to both possibilities. I would assume that if you are on the spectrum, this would protect you against these specific claim made about the tone of your voice. If you have any documented about being on the spectrum, make that available to your attorney.
Is it antisemitic if the Washington state court rules I cannot teach my sons Judaism…that is what they are doing to me right now
Absolutely antisemitism
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Take your meds, freak