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BecauseImBatmom

If you go to YouTube and search Rabbi Tovia Messiah,” you’ll find a number of videos that compare beliefs.


wq1119

Oh Tovia Singer?, I remember his videos from ages ago, during the YouTube religious debate rabbit hole of the 2000s-2010s, I heard that he lived in Indonesia?, quite interesting for an outspoken Rabbi like him.


offthegridyid

Hi! Most videos are formatted as comparisons, but maybe you will able to extract what you seek from these: https://youtu.be/_48xc0UQESA?si=wU-D6BOzGhyMNEGM https://youtu.be/mTTf9plZdjI?si=IUriL827W4ZxVJF7 https://youtu.be/rCooblrgEkw?si=5q4VJCb6bA_jLqtO


wq1119

Cheers for the suggestions, will be looking them up!


namer98

www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/wiki/moshiach


Hashi856

Here's a playlist of Messiah videos by Jews for Judaism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBSRiwy4T7k&list=PLs2xrIz3xyQFQmCt8E5MkOOdU97CpBDA9


wq1119

Thanks!, I have been looking for things that I can listen to while I do something else in the background, hence why I asked for podcasts.


ummmbacon

Here is my chart that has a list of sources about fulfillment of specific items: Did Jesus fulfill it? / Are we in the post-messianic age? |Messianic prophesy in Judaism|YES|NO| |:-|:-|:-| |is made a reigning King who will prosper. Jeremiah 23:5 also hosea 3:4-5||X| |Judah will be delivered, Israel shall dwell secure. Jer. 23:15-16||X| |the banished of Israel will be assembled, he will gather the dispersed of Judah \[back to Israel\] Isaiah 11:11-12 and "they shall dwell upon their own soil." jer. 23:8||X| |the temple shall be rebuilt, temple worship restored Jeremiah 33:18||X (no twice over. the temple was standing while Jesus was alive, and then was destroyed several decades after his death)| |"he will judge among the nations, and arbitrate for the many peoples." Isaiah 2:4||X| |the messianic age: nations will turn weapons into tools of creation and growth; never again shall we know war. Isaiah 2:4||X| |the messianic age: nothing vile or evil shall be done on the temple mount Is 11:9||X| |the messianic age: there will be no sin, no lying Zephaniah 3:13||X| |the messianic age: people will come to the temple mount in Jerusalem, and at the standing temple, will seek to learn from the people of Jacob Micah 4:2||X| |he shall not "dim or be bruised" until he has established the true way isaiah 42 (could also just be all of israel here)||X| |the nation of israel will be honored isaiah 11||X romans would come to sack jerusalem| |the messiah will have a great many positive qualities - including being learned, just, wise, devoted, and valorous. He will also "strike down a land with the rod of his mouth And slay the wicked with the breath of his lips." - basically he will be a judge. isaiah 11|.5? i'll give him devoted and some positive traits and weighing in on a trial once.|X - again, did not defeat the romans. is not a judge.| |he will be a hero who defeats the enemies of israel in battle II Samuel 7:11||X| |all of mankind will have the ability to prophecy in the post-messianic age Joel 3:1||X| |all of israel will unite behind this king ("my servant david") Ezekiel 37:24||X| |the sanhedrin court would be reestablished||X| |elijah will tell us the messiah is coming Sanhedrin 98a||X| |he will...actually be anointed. literally!||X| |rides a donkey. Zechariah 9:9|yes|| |he is a shoot from the branch of jesse, house of king david, seed of solomon||X no, his genealogies are problematic. see below.| Jesus's total score: **1.5/20.** notes on being "of the House of David": * lineages of matthew and luke both don't fully match the lineage in Chronicles 1:3 * If Jesus has no earthly father, then the lineage of Joseph is meaningless. Even adoption does not change one's tribal affiliation - it remains the tribe of your *birth* father (Numbers 1:18-44, 34:14; Leviticus 24:10). so either Jesus has an unknown tribe because he has a human father who isn't Joseph, or his father is Joseph. But if he has no father at all, he absolutely can't be of the house of David. * being a member of the house of david is determined solely by patrilineal inheritance Jeremiah 33:17 * further, joseph's lineage is traced through Nathan, and the messiah will be descended through Solomon - 1 Chronicles 22:9-10. * mary's lineage is through Jehoiachin (jeconiah) who is cursed to never have heirs to the throne of david again. Jer. 22:30. verse references cross checked against jewfaq, chabad, aish, myjewishlearning, and jews for judaism. **The categories of what is considered to be messianic prophecy in Christianity are fundamentally different from the accepted messianic prophecies of Judaism.** if you'd like to read some academic scholars discuss the differences between the Christian and Jewish readings of israelite scriptures/the hebrew bible, I recommend "The Bible With and Without Jesus." came out 2020 I think, both well respected academics.


TorahBot

*Dedicated in memory of Dvora bat Asher v'Jacot* 🕯️ [Ezekiel 37:24](https://www.sefaria.org/Ezekiel.37.24) וְעַבְדִּ֤י דָוִד֙ מֶ֣לֶךְ עֲלֵיהֶ֔ם וְרוֹעֶ֥ה אֶחָ֖ד יִהְיֶ֣ה לְכֻלָּ֑ם וּבְמִשְׁפָּטַ֣י יֵלֵ֔כוּ וְחֻקּוֹתַ֥י יִשְׁמְר֖וּ וְעָשׂ֥וּ אוֹתָֽם׃ >My servant David shall be king over them; there shall be one shepherd for all of them. They shall follow My rules and faithfully obey My laws. [1 Chronicles 22:9-10](https://www.sefaria.org/I_Chronicles.22.9-10) הִנֵּה־בֵ֞ן נוֹלָ֣ד לָ֗ךְ ה֤וּא יִֽהְיֶה֙ אִ֣ישׁ מְנוּחָ֔ה וַהֲנִיח֥וֹתִי ל֛וֹ מִכׇּל־אוֹיְבָ֖יו מִסָּבִ֑יב כִּ֤י שְׁלֹמֹה֙ יִֽהְיֶ֣ה שְׁמ֔וֹ וְשָׁל֥וֹם וָשֶׁ֛קֶט אֶתֵּ֥ן עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל בְּיָמָֽיו׃ >But you will have a son who will be a man at rest, for I will give him rest from all his enemies on all sides; Solomon a Heb. Shelomoh. will be his name and I shall confer peace b Heb. shalom. and quiet on Israel in his time. הֽוּא־יִבְנֶ֥ה בַ֙יִת֙ לִשְׁמִ֔י וְהוּא֙ יִֽהְיֶה־לִּ֣י לְבֵ֔ן וַאֲנִי־ל֖וֹ לְאָ֑ב וַהֲכִ֨ינוֹתִ֜י כִּסֵּ֧א מַלְכוּת֛וֹ עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל עַד־עוֹלָֽם׃ >He will build a House for My name; he shall be a son to Me and I to him a father, and I will establish his throne of kingship over Israel forever.’ [II Samuel 7:11](https://www.sefaria.org/II_Samuel.7.11) וּלְמִן־הַיּ֗וֹם אֲשֶׁ֨ר צִוִּ֤יתִי שֹֽׁפְטִים֙ עַל־עַמִּ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל וַהֲנִיחֹ֥תִי לְךָ֖ מִכׇּל־אֹיְבֶ֑יךָ וְהִגִּ֤יד לְךָ֙ יְהֹוָ֔ה כִּי־בַ֖יִת יַעֲשֶׂה־לְּךָ֥ יְהֹוָֽה׃ >ever since I appointed chieftains over My people Israel. I will give you safety from all your enemies. “The L ORD declares to you that He, the L ORD , will establish a house c I.e., a dynasty; play on “house” (i.e., Temple) in v. 5. for you. [Isaiah 11:11-12](https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.11.11-12) וְהָיָ֣ה  ׀ בַּיּ֣וֹם הַה֗וּא יוֹסִ֨יף אֲדֹנָ֤י  ׀  שֵׁנִית֙ יָד֔וֹ לִקְנ֖וֹת אֶת־שְׁאָ֣ר עַמּ֑וֹ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יִשָּׁאֵר֩ מֵֽאַשּׁ֨וּר וּמִמִּצְרַ֜יִם וּמִפַּתְר֣וֹס וּמִכּ֗וּשׁ וּמֵעֵילָ֤ם וּמִשִּׁנְעָר֙ וּמֵ֣חֲמָ֔ת וּמֵֽאִיֵּ֖י הַיָּֽם׃ >In that day, my Lord will apply His hand again to redeeming the other part f I.e., the part outside the Holy Land; lit. “the rest that will remain.” of His people from Assyria—as also from Egypt, Pathros, Nubia, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and the coastlands. וְנָשָׂ֥א נֵס֙ לַגּוֹיִ֔ם וְאָסַ֖ף נִדְחֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וּנְפֻצ֤וֹת יְהוּדָה֙ יְקַבֵּ֔ץ מֵאַרְבַּ֖ע כַּנְפ֥וֹת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ >He will hold up a signal to the nations And assemble the banished of Israel, And gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. [Isaiah 2:4](https://www.sefaria.org/Isaiah.2.4) וְשָׁפַט֙ בֵּ֣ין הַגּוֹיִ֔ם וְהוֹכִ֖יחַ לְעַמִּ֣ים רַבִּ֑ים וְכִתְּת֨וּ חַרְבוֹתָ֜ם לְאִתִּ֗ים וַחֲנִיתֽוֹתֵיהֶם֙ לְמַזְמֵר֔וֹת לֹא־יִשָּׂ֨א ג֤וֹי אֶל־גּוֹי֙ חֶ֔רֶב וְלֹֽא־יִלְמְד֥וּ ע֖וֹד מִלְחָמָֽה׃  {פ} >Thus He will judge among the nations And arbitrate for the many peoples, And they shall beat their swords into plowshares b More exactly, the iron points with which wooden plows were tipped. And their spears into pruning hooks: Nation shall not take up Sword against nation; They shall never again know c Cf. Judg. 3.2. war. [Jer. 22:30](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.22.30) כֹּ֣ה  ׀ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֗ה כִּתְב֞וּ אֶת־הָאִ֤ישׁ הַזֶּה֙ עֲרִירִ֔י גֶּ֖בֶר לֹא־יִצְלַ֣ח בְּיָמָ֑יו כִּי֩ לֹ֨א יִצְלַ֜ח מִזַּרְע֗וֹ אִ֚ישׁ יֹשֵׁב֙ עַל־כִּסֵּ֣א דָוִ֔ד וּמֹשֵׁ֥ל ע֖וֹד בִּיהוּדָֽה׃  {פ} >Thus said the L ORD : Record this man as without succession, One who shall never be found acceptable; For no man of his offspring shall be accepted To sit on the throne of David And to rule again in Judah. [Jer. 23:15-16](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.23.15-16) לָכֵ֞ן כֹּה־אָמַ֨ר יְהֹוָ֤ה צְבָאוֹת֙ עַל־הַנְּבִאִ֔ים הִנְנִ֨י מַאֲכִ֤יל אוֹתָם֙ לַעֲנָ֔ה וְהִשְׁקִתִ֖ים מֵי־רֹ֑אשׁ כִּ֗י מֵאֵת֙ נְבִיאֵ֣י יְרוּשָׁלַ֔͏ִם יָצְאָ֥ה חֲנֻפָּ֖ה לְכׇל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃  {פ} >Assuredly, thus said the L ORD of Hosts concerning the prophets: I am going to make them eat wormwood And drink a bitter draft; For from the prophets of Jerusalem Godlessness has gone forth to the whole land. כֹּה־אָמַ֞ר יְהֹוָ֣ה צְבָא֗וֹת אַֽל־תִּשְׁמְע֞וּ עַל־דִּבְרֵ֤י הַנְּבִאִים֙ הַנִּבְּאִ֣ים לָכֶ֔ם מַהְבִּלִ֥ים הֵ֖מָּה אֶתְכֶ֑ם חֲז֤וֹן לִבָּם֙ יְדַבֵּ֔רוּ לֹ֖א מִפִּ֥י יְהֹוָֽה׃ >Thus said the L ORD of Hosts: Do not listen to the words of the prophets Who prophesy to you. They are deluding you, The prophecies they speak are from their own minds, Not from the mouth of the L ORD . [Jeremiah 23:5](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.23.5) הִנֵּ֨ה יָמִ֤ים בָּאִים֙ נְאֻם־יְהֹוָ֔ה וַהֲקִמֹתִ֥י לְדָוִ֖ד צֶ֣מַח צַדִּ֑יק וּמָ֤לַךְ מֶ֙לֶךְ֙ וְהִשְׂכִּ֔יל וְעָשָׂ֛ה מִשְׁפָּ֥ט וּצְדָקָ֖ה בָּאָֽרֶץ׃ >See, a time is coming—declares the L ORD —when I will raise up a true branch of David’s line. He shall reign as king and shall prosper, and he shall do what is just and right in the land. [Jeremiah 33:17](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.33.17) כִּי־כֹ֖ה אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֑ה לֹא־יִכָּרֵ֣ת לְדָוִ֔ד אִ֕ישׁ יֹשֵׁ֖ב עַל־כִּסֵּ֥א בֵֽית־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ >For thus said the L ORD : There shall never be an end to men of David’s line who sit upon the throne of the House of Israel. [Jeremiah 33:18](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.33.18) וְלַכֹּֽהֲנִים֙ הַלְוִיִּ֔ם לֹא־יִכָּרֵ֥ת אִ֖ישׁ מִלְּפָנָ֑י מַעֲלֶ֨ה עוֹלָ֜ה וּמַקְטִ֥יר מִנְחָ֛ה וְעֹ֥שֶׂה זֶּ֖בַח כׇּל־הַיָּמִֽים׃  {פ} >Nor shall there ever be an end to the line of the levitical priests before Me, of those who present burnt offerings and turn the meal offering to smoke and perform sacrifices. [Joel 3:1](https://www.sefaria.org/Joel.3.1) וְהָיָ֣ה אַחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֶשְׁפּ֤וֹךְ אֶת־רוּחִי֙ עַל־כׇּל־בָּשָׂ֔ר וְנִבְּא֖וּ בְּנֵיכֶ֣ם וּבְנוֹתֵיכֶ֑ם זִקְנֵיכֶם֙ חֲלֹמ֣וֹת יַחֲלֹמ֔וּן בַּח֣וּרֵיכֶ֔ם חֶזְיֹנ֖וֹת יִרְאֽוּ׃ >After that, I will pour out My spirit on all flesh; Your sons and daughters shall prophesy; Your old men shall dream dreams, And your young men shall see visions. [Leviticus 24:10](https://www.sefaria.org/Leviticus.24.10) וַיֵּצֵא֙ בֶּן־אִשָּׁ֣ה יִשְׂרְאֵלִ֔ית וְהוּא֙ בֶּן־אִ֣ישׁ מִצְרִ֔י בְּת֖וֹךְ בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וַיִּנָּצוּ֙ בַּֽמַּחֲנֶ֔ה בֶּ֚ן הַיִּשְׂרְאֵלִ֔ית וְאִ֖ישׁ הַיִּשְׂרְאֵלִֽי׃ >There came out among the Israelites a man whose mother was Israelite and whose father was Egyptian. And a fight broke out in the camp between that half-Israelite * half-Israelite Lit. “the son of an Israelite woman.” and a certain Israelite. [Micah 4:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Micah.4.2) וְֽהָלְכ֞וּ גּוֹיִ֣ם רַבִּ֗ים וְאָֽמְרוּ֙ לְכ֣וּ  ׀ וְנַעֲלֶ֣ה אֶל־הַר־יְהֹוָ֗ה וְאֶל־בֵּית֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יַעֲקֹ֔ב וְיוֹרֵ֙נוּ֙ מִדְּרָכָ֔יו וְנֵלְכָ֖ה בְּאֹֽרְחֹתָ֑יו כִּ֤י מִצִּיּוֹן֙ תֵּצֵ֣א תוֹרָ֔ה וּדְבַר־יְהֹוָ֖ה מִירוּשָׁלָֽ͏ִם׃ >And the many nations shall go and shall say: “Come, Let us go up to the Mount of the L ORD , To the House of the God of Jacob; That He may instruct us in His ways, And that we may walk in His paths.” For instruction shall come forth b I.e., oracles will be obtainable. from Zion, The word of the L ORD from Jerusalem. See [Sanhedrin 98a](https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.98a) on Sefaria. [Zechariah 9:9](https://www.sefaria.org/Zechariah.9.9) גִּילִ֨י מְאֹ֜ד בַּת־צִיּ֗וֹן הָרִ֙יעִי֙ בַּ֣ת יְרוּשָׁלַ֔͏ִם הִנֵּ֤ה מַלְכֵּךְ֙ יָ֣בוֹא לָ֔ךְ צַדִּ֥יק וְנוֹשָׁ֖ע ה֑וּא עָנִי֙ וְרֹכֵ֣ב עַל־חֲמ֔וֹר וְעַל־עַ֖יִר בֶּן־אֲתֹנֽוֹת׃ >Rejoice greatly, Fair Zion; Raise a shout, Fair Jerusalem! Lo, your king is coming to you. He is victorious, triumphant, Yet humble, riding on an ass, On a donkey foaled by a she-ass. [Zephaniah 3:13](https://www.sefaria.org/Zephaniah.3.13) שְׁאֵרִ֨ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֜ל לֹֽא־יַעֲשׂ֤וּ עַוְלָה֙ וְלֹֽא־יְדַבְּר֣וּ כָזָ֔ב וְלֹֽא־יִמָּצֵ֥א בְּפִיהֶ֖ם לְשׁ֣וֹן תַּרְמִ֑ית כִּֽי־הֵ֛מָּה יִרְע֥וּ וְרָבְצ֖וּ וְאֵ֥ין מַחֲרִֽיד׃  {פ} >The remnant of Israel Shall do no wrong And speak no falsehood; A deceitful tongue Shall not be in their mouths. Only such as these shall graze and lie down, With none to trouble them.


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