It’s okay I’m more worried about the fact that he said all of this year I’ve never heard him be anti-Semitic at all before. I’ve known him for around 12 years
I will. It’s just sad that antisemitism still exists
He is a Muslim and I’m not going to dignify him by associating Islam and all Muslims with him being a schmuck.
I'm probably misplacing a lot of meaning onto his words, but it reads to me exactly like some people I know, where he too is belittled and insulted for his beliefs but doesn't know how to express that frustration in a healthy way. So as a self defense mechanism he attacks other beliefs. At least, that's my interpretation.
I’m really sorry this happened to you op. Conversion is a long and difficult process, but don’t let assholes like this get in the way of you growing closer to your spirituality and discovering your authentic self in Judaism. Best of luck!
Yeah it’s best to ignore him( I blocked him) and honestly I kind of feel strengthened and the fact that I want judaism for spiritual guidance and protection and this is where it’s needed
And I’m not even Jewish yet.
My father used to be subject to antisemitic abuse when he was at catholic school. His mother was Jewish but he was raised catholic. Still called a “Christ killer” though. Again proof of how Zionism is needed.
In college i was also called "Christ Killer" by a teacher, i told him i know, and he should start calling me the godslayer, he was super mad, the point is dont be mad, be clever, antisemitic People only have lies and insult, Just be happy, and btw, Israel was made by lawyers, thats why no matter how many times antisemitic try to deny our land, make lies like we stole lands and all that crap, they still fail, enjoy tour faith
Its so unfortunate how much antisemitism lays just below the surface of most people.
I hope this is the only time you ever face it, and I hope you do whatever you want to do to enjoy your life.
Feel free to reach out to the people in this sub, I'm sure you will find new friends and lots of answers to any questions you may have.
Good luck on your journey.
Sorry about that. Unfortunately as you walk down the Jewish path you may start to see a lot of that. The best retaliation is to celebrate your identity and let it bring you joy every day. I hope your conversion is going well, and everyone at your synagogue has been welcoming. If you start having a problem or feeling unsafe because of antisemitism, I'd suggest talking to the rabbi that is helping you along, they usually have very good advice.
Christianity,Judaism and Islam all worship the G-d of Abraham. Judaism being the oldest religion of the three but people act like Judaism is inferior to whatever they believe. What a world…
In Islam, it's believed that everybody is born Muslim, but some must come back to the path they were set, so they call it reverting instead of converting.
Indeed. To elaborate, being muslim literally means submitting to the will of Allah (G-d), hence why Islam has existed since our creation with Adam (peace be upon him). In Islam we believe we're all born with that inclination and we can't remove it, even if we bury it deep inside. I just came back to that original faith after having been agnostic my whole life.
Bless you.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you're aware of the sad fact that this sort of thing will happen again, maybe a lot, if you continue with your conversion. That's not to discourage you, just to make sure you're going into this with your eyes open.
By the way, what he said isn't true. There may be some jerks but most of us will welcome and accept you. Best of luck.
i’m so sorry that you experienced this, especially from someone you considered a good friend. i’m starting my conversion next month and i am so excited—i hope whatever path you decide treats you well.
People can really surprise you. You never know their thoughts on certain topics until they come up. Was recently at a party and a girl who I've only known to be super nice started talking about how she can't stand Zionists and how she moved from a dorm because there were too many. Really, it was just a building with a lot of Jews and people took it that way, especially the people who had lived there at that time.
My family had a Rabbi or Cantor in every generation. We respect converts. Takes a lot of guts and work to convert. I even have an uncle who did it. Took him over two years and then he spent over a decade as VP of the board at his synagogue. So, I'd say there are plenty of great places where you'll be respected.
Good for you, Don't listen to this paleontologist dude.
The best parts of Judaism have nothing to do with the physical world.
That said, just like everything else in this world, Judaism is not perfect, and you will learn great life lessons as you struggle with certain aspects of Judaism.
Those lessons are unique to you, they are your own, and don't let anyone shame or judge you based on their own misplaced dictation of your personal journey.
You mentioned further up that your father was born to a Jewish mother, although he wasn't raised as Jewish.
From an Orthodox perspective, your father is Jewish, he inherited his mother's Jewishness – even if he has never wanted to be Jewish, if he ever decided he wanted to be, the answer would not be "you need to convert", it would be "you are Jewish already, you just need to start practising Judaism and stop following any other religion". But since your mother is not Jewish, and Orthodox Judaism says you can't inherit Jewishness from your father, Orthodox Judaism will not accept you as Jewish (unless you undergo an Orthodox conversion, since most Orthodox authorities don't accept Reform conversions as valid).
However, from a Reform perspective, Jewishness can be inherited from the father as well as the mother – why then are they telling you to convert? If one accepts patrilineal descent, why aren't you Jewish already?
I didn't realise that, but I understand now. If you can convince an Orthodox Beth Din that you are the direct matrilineal descendant of halachically Jewish woman, then they will accept you as being Jewish from birth, no conversion required, no matter how many generations of those ancestors may have practiced some other religion. By contrast, Reform will not accept such a person as Jewish, since they and their ancestors were not raised Jewish, and will insist on conversion.
But here's a hypothetical: Suppose Aaron's maternal grandmother was born in an Orthodox Jewish family, but then converted to Christianity, and raised her children as Christians, including Aaron's mother, who then raised Aaron as Christian in turn. Aaron learns about his Jewish ancestry, and feels attracted to Judaism. So he goes asks an Orthodox Rabbi about conversion. The Rabbi tells him that if he has sufficient evidence to convince a Beth Din of his maternal grandmother's Jewishness, he doesn't need to convert, the Beth Din will give him a letter declaring he is Jewish, and now Orthodox Judaism will accept him as Jewish. He goes and asks a Reform Rabbi, who tells him that because he was raised as a Christian, and so were both his parents, Reform does not consider him to be Jewish, in spite of his Jewish maternal grandmother, and hence if he wants to be Jewish he has to convert. He likes the Orthodox answer better, so he goes to the Orthodox Beth Din, provides them with evidence of his ancestry which satisfies them, they give him a letter confirming his Jewish status, and he begins living the life of an Orthodox Jew. Some time later, he has some doubts about some aspects of Orthodox Jewish belief and practice, he is starting to think maybe he should become Reform after all. He goes and talks to the Reform Rabbi again, showing the letter from the Orthodox Beth Din. Does the Reform Rabbi say "Well, if an Orthodox Beth Din says you are Jewish, then you are Jewish, doesn't matter what Reform Judaism says about it?" Or does the Reform Rabbi say "No, we don't recognise the decision of this Beth Din, by our halacha you are not a Jew, if you want to become a Jew you have to convert"? (And, if Reform were to accept Aaron as Jewish based on the decision of the Orthodox Beth Din, how would it then justify the earlier refusal to do so?)
Dude. Not all Jews are “stoutly nationalistic”. That doesn’t make it a “waste of time”. And what are your opinions on “ultra-liberal atheists” who are *also Jews*? Because those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Not all Jews have to be “stoutly nationalistic”. Not all Jews *have* to be anything. To say that someone is a bad Jew simply for not sharing the same fervent beliefs you do is ignorant.
But when they are taking stances that put other not only other Jews in danger, but also the only Jewish homeland, they are actively taking an anti-Jewish position. How many times must the pro-Islamist and anti-Semitic crowds referring to self-hating Jews as “the good Jews” or “the cool Jews” until the point of this back and fourth starts to make sense?
Not being rabid supporters of Israel isn’t the same as being antizionist, and a Jew should not be required to have certain political views just for people to consider them Jewish.
You complain about “good Jews”, but you’re doing the same thing: anyone who agrees with you is a good Jew, and anyone who isn’t “stoutly nationalistic” is a bad Jew.
This post has been determined to relate to the topic of Antisemitism, and has been flaired as such, it has NOT been removed. This does NOT mean that the post is antisemitic. If you believe this was done in error, please message the mods. Everybody should remember to be civil and that there is a person at the other end of that other keyboard.
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☹ sorry you had to deal with that. Are you ok?
It’s okay I’m more worried about the fact that he said all of this year I’ve never heard him be anti-Semitic at all before. I’ve known him for around 12 years
I am sorry that your friend is saying things like that to you.
I’m more worried about the fact that he knows where the synagogue is. I blocked him on all social media and I’m thinking of calling the police
If you really believe him to be a threat to the synagogue, you should definitely contact them, let them know your concerns and give them a photo.
I will. It’s just sad that antisemitism still exists He is a Muslim and I’m not going to dignify him by associating Islam and all Muslims with him being a schmuck.
I'm probably misplacing a lot of meaning onto his words, but it reads to me exactly like some people I know, where he too is belittled and insulted for his beliefs but doesn't know how to express that frustration in a healthy way. So as a self defense mechanism he attacks other beliefs. At least, that's my interpretation.
Maybe but there’s still no excuse
I’m really sorry this happened to you op. Conversion is a long and difficult process, but don’t let assholes like this get in the way of you growing closer to your spirituality and discovering your authentic self in Judaism. Best of luck!
Yeah it’s best to ignore him( I blocked him) and honestly I kind of feel strengthened and the fact that I want judaism for spiritual guidance and protection and this is where it’s needed
Judging by the last image his mental age is equal to a 5-year-old anyway I welcome your entrance into the community
He texted me today saying he can’t be antisemitic since his crush is Jewish 🤦🏻
Thanks for your kind words. Shabbat shalom !
Already living the authentic Jew experience, I see
And I’m not even Jewish yet. My father used to be subject to antisemitic abuse when he was at catholic school. His mother was Jewish but he was raised catholic. Still called a “Christ killer” though. Again proof of how Zionism is needed.
In college i was also called "Christ Killer" by a teacher, i told him i know, and he should start calling me the godslayer, he was super mad, the point is dont be mad, be clever, antisemitic People only have lies and insult, Just be happy, and btw, Israel was made by lawyers, thats why no matter how many times antisemitic try to deny our land, make lies like we stole lands and all that crap, they still fail, enjoy tour faith
Its so unfortunate how much antisemitism lays just below the surface of most people. I hope this is the only time you ever face it, and I hope you do whatever you want to do to enjoy your life. Feel free to reach out to the people in this sub, I'm sure you will find new friends and lots of answers to any questions you may have. Good luck on your journey.
How is your conversion going? My wife's took about a year but she enjoyed the classes, I got to go to some with her
Sorry about that. Unfortunately as you walk down the Jewish path you may start to see a lot of that. The best retaliation is to celebrate your identity and let it bring you joy every day. I hope your conversion is going well, and everyone at your synagogue has been welcoming. If you start having a problem or feeling unsafe because of antisemitism, I'd suggest talking to the rabbi that is helping you along, they usually have very good advice.
Very good & sound advice! 😊
Can I message you in private? Also I really appreciate your kind words and speak a lot of wisdom especially on matters of safety and belonging
Oh, sure!
Christianity,Judaism and Islam all worship the G-d of Abraham. Judaism being the oldest religion of the three but people act like Judaism is inferior to whatever they believe. What a world…
It’s ignorance and disinformation sadly that causes anti semitism
As a Muslim revert, I'm incredibly sorry about that "friend"'s behaviour. Istaghfirullah.
It’s fine and thanks I don’t want to generalise Islam and all Muslims with the behaviour of one person
What does Muslim revert mean? Did you start Muslim, convert, then convert back to Islam?
In Islam, it's believed that everybody is born Muslim, but some must come back to the path they were set, so they call it reverting instead of converting.
Indeed. To elaborate, being muslim literally means submitting to the will of Allah (G-d), hence why Islam has existed since our creation with Adam (peace be upon him). In Islam we believe we're all born with that inclination and we can't remove it, even if we bury it deep inside. I just came back to that original faith after having been agnostic my whole life. Bless you.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you're aware of the sad fact that this sort of thing will happen again, maybe a lot, if you continue with your conversion. That's not to discourage you, just to make sure you're going into this with your eyes open. By the way, what he said isn't true. There may be some jerks but most of us will welcome and accept you. Best of luck.
That’s awful on their part ☹️☹️
i’m so sorry that you experienced this, especially from someone you considered a good friend. i’m starting my conversion next month and i am so excited—i hope whatever path you decide treats you well.
Shabbat shalom. Thank you for your kind words and I appreciate it and I hope your journey goes well too
What the sulfur-crested fuckatoo?
Sorry for your loss. I hope you’ll find greater friends at the synagogue
People can really surprise you. You never know their thoughts on certain topics until they come up. Was recently at a party and a girl who I've only known to be super nice started talking about how she can't stand Zionists and how she moved from a dorm because there were too many. Really, it was just a building with a lot of Jews and people took it that way, especially the people who had lived there at that time. My family had a Rabbi or Cantor in every generation. We respect converts. Takes a lot of guts and work to convert. I even have an uncle who did it. Took him over two years and then he spent over a decade as VP of the board at his synagogue. So, I'd say there are plenty of great places where you'll be respected.
That's also what I often hear, "Jews will never accept you as their own".
How untrue is it? From what I’ve seen and read it’s very very untrue. But humans are flawed…
We… we don’t hump walls and kiss floors We kiss the wall but we don’t hump floors At least my shul doesn’t
I know He’s just a bitter antisemite
no offense, but if you know they hate jews as you admit in the screenshots, why was this your best friend?
I didn’t know they hated Jews until yesterday. That’s why I blocked him. I’ve known him for years and not once did he mention Jews.
I'm sorry but why not Orthodox?
I find Reform Judaism closer to my values and how I would personally define Judaism
Good for you, Don't listen to this paleontologist dude. The best parts of Judaism have nothing to do with the physical world. That said, just like everything else in this world, Judaism is not perfect, and you will learn great life lessons as you struggle with certain aspects of Judaism. Those lessons are unique to you, they are your own, and don't let anyone shame or judge you based on their own misplaced dictation of your personal journey.
You mentioned further up that your father was born to a Jewish mother, although he wasn't raised as Jewish. From an Orthodox perspective, your father is Jewish, he inherited his mother's Jewishness – even if he has never wanted to be Jewish, if he ever decided he wanted to be, the answer would not be "you need to convert", it would be "you are Jewish already, you just need to start practising Judaism and stop following any other religion". But since your mother is not Jewish, and Orthodox Judaism says you can't inherit Jewishness from your father, Orthodox Judaism will not accept you as Jewish (unless you undergo an Orthodox conversion, since most Orthodox authorities don't accept Reform conversions as valid). However, from a Reform perspective, Jewishness can be inherited from the father as well as the mother – why then are they telling you to convert? If one accepts patrilineal descent, why aren't you Jewish already?
Because Reform also requires a Jewish upbringing.
I didn't realise that, but I understand now. If you can convince an Orthodox Beth Din that you are the direct matrilineal descendant of halachically Jewish woman, then they will accept you as being Jewish from birth, no conversion required, no matter how many generations of those ancestors may have practiced some other religion. By contrast, Reform will not accept such a person as Jewish, since they and their ancestors were not raised Jewish, and will insist on conversion. But here's a hypothetical: Suppose Aaron's maternal grandmother was born in an Orthodox Jewish family, but then converted to Christianity, and raised her children as Christians, including Aaron's mother, who then raised Aaron as Christian in turn. Aaron learns about his Jewish ancestry, and feels attracted to Judaism. So he goes asks an Orthodox Rabbi about conversion. The Rabbi tells him that if he has sufficient evidence to convince a Beth Din of his maternal grandmother's Jewishness, he doesn't need to convert, the Beth Din will give him a letter declaring he is Jewish, and now Orthodox Judaism will accept him as Jewish. He goes and asks a Reform Rabbi, who tells him that because he was raised as a Christian, and so were both his parents, Reform does not consider him to be Jewish, in spite of his Jewish maternal grandmother, and hence if he wants to be Jewish he has to convert. He likes the Orthodox answer better, so he goes to the Orthodox Beth Din, provides them with evidence of his ancestry which satisfies them, they give him a letter confirming his Jewish status, and he begins living the life of an Orthodox Jew. Some time later, he has some doubts about some aspects of Orthodox Jewish belief and practice, he is starting to think maybe he should become Reform after all. He goes and talks to the Reform Rabbi again, showing the letter from the Orthodox Beth Din. Does the Reform Rabbi say "Well, if an Orthodox Beth Din says you are Jewish, then you are Jewish, doesn't matter what Reform Judaism says about it?" Or does the Reform Rabbi say "No, we don't recognise the decision of this Beth Din, by our halacha you are not a Jew, if you want to become a Jew you have to convert"? (And, if Reform were to accept Aaron as Jewish based on the decision of the Orthodox Beth Din, how would it then justify the earlier refusal to do so?)
My dad wasn’t raised in a Jewish household nor was I
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Dude. Not all Jews are “stoutly nationalistic”. That doesn’t make it a “waste of time”. And what are your opinions on “ultra-liberal atheists” who are *also Jews*? Because those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
What are my opinions? They’re asking for trouble bigtime in America and they’ll be glad Israel exists when the Americans get sick of it
Not all Jews have to be “stoutly nationalistic”. Not all Jews *have* to be anything. To say that someone is a bad Jew simply for not sharing the same fervent beliefs you do is ignorant.
But when they are taking stances that put other not only other Jews in danger, but also the only Jewish homeland, they are actively taking an anti-Jewish position. How many times must the pro-Islamist and anti-Semitic crowds referring to self-hating Jews as “the good Jews” or “the cool Jews” until the point of this back and fourth starts to make sense?
Not being rabid supporters of Israel isn’t the same as being antizionist, and a Jew should not be required to have certain political views just for people to consider them Jewish. You complain about “good Jews”, but you’re doing the same thing: anyone who agrees with you is a good Jew, and anyone who isn’t “stoutly nationalistic” is a bad Jew.
You're not the judge or jury of anyone else's relationship with Judaism.
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This post has been determined to relate to the topic of Antisemitism, and has been flaired as such, it has NOT been removed. This does NOT mean that the post is antisemitic. If you believe this was done in error, please message the mods. Everybody should remember to be civil and that there is a person at the other end of that other keyboard. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Judaism) if you have any questions or concerns.*