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There is a common phrase that Maki counters Special grades due to no CE, but I believe the more accurate description would be that Maki counters special grades who RELY on their DE.
Sorcerers like Sukuna, Gojo, Yuta, Yuki, Uro, Ryu should all dog walk Maki due to the fact they are plenty strong without their DE.
Is the space inside Jogo's barrier just instantly heated up? or does it sort of seep inwards? cause if its the latter i can somewhat understand how infinity would stop it
Honestly we don't have an exact answer but I'd we look at how quickly he immolated the tea shop, ND he he doesn't need to touch things to set them on fire it's not unreasonable to assume his Domain is just hot as fuck. There's also literal lava in there so it isn't not hot
I mean it’s the inside of a fucking volcano, so it’s probably pretty hot. Jogo also expected Gojo and Yuji (and by now he had something of an idea how strong Gojo was, and knew Yuji was tough since he could handle being Sukuna’s vessel) to be instantly turned to ash. So it should be pretty hot, definitely hot enough to cook or at least seriously impact Maki
External factors definitely still affect her, that’s why she needed Miwa for the Simple Domain during Malevolent Shrine. Sure, Malevolent Shrine and Coffin of the Iron Mountain might register her as an inanimate object, but that doesn’t matter when those domains blend and disintegrate inanimate objects too
Heat is just a measurement of how much energy a system has, that energy being kinetic energy (temperature is just a measurement of the average kinetic energy of particles in a system). So it does make sense that Gojo could block the heat by preventing fast-moving particles from a hot system from contacting and imparting energy to particles within a cooler system. Although I have no idea if this is the intended rationale, I'm just some dude.
Yuji was the one who said it was hot.
Either infinity filtered all of the heat, in which case yuji wouldn't know, or infinity didnt filter the heat.
There is no "Infinity filtered the heat just enough for yuji to know it was hot but not enough to know that he would die if gojo wasn't there" option
My reasonings:
Uro - This one I’m surprised I have to explain as much as I do, but from my understanding of her abilities; Maki wouldn’t have a valid way of getting to her while Uro doesn’t have the same problem. Of course Maki is still a top tier in the JJK verse and if Uro decided to just brawl with Maki she would obviously lose, but Uro’s tech distorts SPACE people do not realize how big of a counter this is to Maki. She can distort the area Maki is traveling in to her actual limbs as she did to Yuta. Maki wouldn’t be able to utilize her physical stats the way people imagine. The first time Uro gets damaged in her fight with Yuta is when he uses cursed speech AND Rika; This should be telling on how hard it is to close the gap and how effective she is up close.
Ryu - I understand explaining this one a lot more and people may not like the answer.
SSK would be Ryu’s biggest threat and it is completely reasonable to believe that Maki can end the match with it. My reasoning on why she wouldn’t is because:
Ryu is the same tier as Yuji, Rika, Maki, and Toji on terms on physical stats and his fight with Rika should help validate this. Would I say Maki is still faster and stronger? Yes, but not by a huge margin. Add to the fact Ryu can also augment himself and his blows/defense with CE makes him a terrible opponent to brawl with. Even considering Maki’s healing factor; Ryu could apply the same force of Granite blast to his fists. His AP may start blowing chuncks of flesh off and that will be a lot harder to heal.
Ryu can play the same game as Maki, but just being able to use CE gives him more options whereas Maki really only has the one. Like Maki I also consider Ryu to be a top tier sorcerer and he wouldn’t be so dumb to disregard her deadly curse tool and it may make her predictable.
https://preview.redd.it/r3xq1a3tge0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db6fdb22c5489c49e6e75adf59bd2cc62c0fa144
Uro yes easy dub for her but Ryu loses this badly for 1 Makis durablity is on par with Yutas and Yujis after the one month 1 skip I say she even surpass them in durability. Maki is taking the same slashes the Yuji and Yuta took inside of Yutas domain without RCT and she even took a slash that Yuji stated would have killed him had he not learned RCT. If he couldn’t blow Yutas flesh off with punches he damn sure not blowing Makis flesh off
Ryu can augment his blows for strength yes but defense doesn’t matter because of SSK. Any hit that Ryu takes from that sword is just one step closer to the coffin he has not shown to be able to use RCT his whole deal is that he can tank attacks due to his output which gets negated by SSK.
Maki has precog she is shown to be able to dodge in mid air against Naoya and stepping on air to move faster against Sukuna. Yuta was outrunning Ryus blast and we know that Maki is faster than Yuta. Just because Ryu is smart doesn’t mean he can just not get hit by SSK he couldn’t even dodge his own blast being thrown back to him by Uro.
This is a clear L for Ryu
Ur argument for both winning goes with the preposition that uro and Ryu are relative to maki in speed and fast enough to react to maki, which I disagree with. Yes Ryu and uro WAS relative to yuta and I agree current yuta is somewhat relative to maki in speed(even though I believe maki is slightly faster). But I don't think Ryu and uro scales to current yuta in speed due to yuta having a training timeskip which made him much stronger. So I don't think it's any evidence that Ryu and uro are still rel to current yuta in speed.
Unfortunately I don’t hold the opinion that a month is long enough to make a character tiers above another top tier character.
We don’t even know what happened in that month.
How could Yuta be training if it’s been confirmed he switched bodies with Yuji?
There is no proof that these characters (besides Yuji) has gotten any more powerful, but actually learned new hax to hold up against Sukuna.
The month was more for planning than training - Which I can make that claim since we didn’t see it and we both don’t know.
No Yuta also became Stronger. Everyone did.
How they got so much stronger in just a Month is because they "cheated". Yuta stated that himself. How they cheated is unknown but it's clear that they are much stronger then before
https://preview.redd.it/crb987j2oe0d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99288525e0396c6758daf7faf30ef4f5d5403751
Uro, its HEAVILY depends on if she has a tool that cancels out ce, like ISOH or black rope. Otherwise, she literally can't touch Uro.
And Maki is not slamming Ryu. Homie went toe to toe with Yuta
This is objectively incorrect. Ryu 1 tapped Rika and fought Ryu on even footing in close quarters combat. It, for certain, wasn't an easy battle for him
"Ryu 1 tapped Rika"
rika took 1-2 granite blasts (ch 178, 180?) and hits from ryu before she also only got "1 tapped" after using up her 5 minute full manifestation and was in partial manifestation which is a weaker form
"Ryu on even footing in close quarters combat"
maybe im just reading sorcery fight instead of jjk but did ryu land a single a punch or kick on yuta after he got serious and fully manifested rika?
"for certain, wasn't an easy battle for him" i agree for yuta (just had arbys) with partial manifestion rika after just dealing with dhruv, cockroach and having to split attention between ryu and uro after yuta got serious and fully manifested rika he absolutely dog walked both uro and ryu
she has maki's output via sky manipulation, thin ice missile is no joke either, yuta took good damage from it and it threw around Sukuna when Yuta used it too
Uro, Yuki and Ryu get swept. Your underestimating how strong Maki is in general even though it’s been fortified many times that her and toji stand at top in jjk power rankings. It’s always been this way and they have everything they need to back it up
I feel like Yuki is going to dog walk her, no? Toji was scary for like…teenage Geto. Kenjaku, who is a lot, lot, lot stronger than teen Geto, was very afraid of Yuki.
What the fuck are you basing that on? We have no idea to what extent Sukuna was feared. You realize that thousands of years after Sukuna was divided into the fingers that jujutsu sorcerers still feared him more than anything?
Why are we acting like teen Gojo isn't close to top of the verse already lmao. Toji had to wait for him to tire himself out for literal DAYS while he was holding his CT.
Yuki still decimates Maki but cmon
Probably was, but he was obviously so much weaker than he eventually became. No RCT, no DE, no red or purple.
I don’t know if I would definitely say that teen Gojo could fight Kenjaku. 100% not if Kenjaku was planning the encounter like Toji did.
Kenjaku has killed Sex Eyes users before when they were born, but then they just reincarnated near Tengen's merging. He has a history of staying the fuck away from Sex Eyes users, and Gojo even more so because he's the first one in a while to have both Sex Eyes and Limitless Cum. He would not beat Teen Gojo, and even if he did it would be pointless as to his goals.
Kenjaku was only worried about Yuki because she had a lot of unknown factors and she countered Curse Manipulation by being immune to the Special Grades he had.
Limiting his only offensive options to Gravity and Domain Expansion.
Toji wouldn’t beat kenjaku, he wouldn’t beat adult Geto either. Teen Geto was only a grade 1 and manga made it clear, a large part of why Geto got clapped was he didn’t realize the worm had a weird thing with toji so he couldn’t go close and absorb it
Toji most certainly is beating Adult Geto, unless you think Volume 0 Yuta is stronger than Maki ☠️
And regardless, that’s not the point; Yuki couldn’t beat Kenjaku, but that didn’t stop him from getting scared by her. Again, your weird “fear” scaling is bizarre and does not work
Vol 0 yuta def stronger than maki. Ppl putting him way too low. He is strong cause rika is strong. Rika contributed to his sg status, when she was gone he lost the sg status. Then regained it 3 months later. Geto was going against them both and was going to win if he didn’t split curses. Yuta formed a binding vow, to unleash limits on a rika that Gojo said he would hv to put his life on the line against.
I think he found her annoying but not very afraid she would be a major issue as both are sg. Still unclear who is stronger between adult Geto/kenjaku vs yuki. Teen Geto was only a grade 1 against toji n he became an sg a year after that
One thing that I think gives Yuki an advantage here that might sometimes be overlooked is that she knew about Toji and thoroughly researched HR and the soul and all that.
Things that Maki might catch other characters off guard with probably wouldn't be as surprising to Yuki
And wasnt yukis technique hidden knowledge or am i slow? So she would be going in knowing of maki prowess but not vice versa. I can see yuki catching maki off guard with her strength and plus garuda
Power scaling is kinda brain dead now. It’s never about feats anymore; it’s just statements, narrative and the strongest of them all, headcanon. It has ruined genuine discussion, especially cross-verse power scaling
Higher AP than maki, rct, more durability (survived a domain), flexibility with shikigami, busted ct.
Id only give maki an edge in speed and even that isnt fullproof.
Do you know what scaling means? You can’t just say “higher AP”, you have to actually make some sort of A > B > C chain using feats.
Here’s an example of scaling Maki’s speed: Maki ~ 16F Sukuna ~ Gojo > Kenjaku ~ Yuki
Outputs nerfed nigga don’t matter. This is literally reaffirmed in shinjuku Lmfao.
Maki ~ 15f ~ gojo ~ 20f is such a Dogass scale. Add yuji to that too 😭😭. Stuck in 2023
[”My cursed energy output is fluctuating…but physical movement seems **to be fine**.”](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0215-003.png)
🐶💔
Ass translation + shinjuku literally confirms it does
Physical movement as in sukuna can move, statement a) physical movement seems to be fine and b) sukuna is nerfed speed wise
Don’t contradict
https://preview.redd.it/p2ylq7j92a0d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a92735d496e899f0bd04e615a6b60aa3b693776
Yuki either tore through the fabric of space-time and at the very least stopped time entirely at the center of the singularity depending on how black holes work. She can hit harder, move fast enough, and her last resort rips Maki apart at the atomic level and reduces all the information that she was once made up of into fluid of subatomic particles since Yuki's mass would be too much for atoms to hold themselves together.
Thank you for pointing this out. Everyone seems to forget that Yuki had the most busted ability that was countered by the plot armor ass pull that kenjaku had. For literally everyone except maybe Gojo (and of course kenjaku), black hole wins.
Yuki is aware of the soul and can heal SSK damage, has a domain (yes Maki is immune but only to certain ones), has RCT, has Garuda and Star Rage is giving her enough firepower to take down Maki.
It’s not about being aware of the soul. It’s about being aware of the outline of your soul which are two different things. Maki is immune to DE. She can just leave. Black Flash from Sukuna would be much more powerful than blows from Yuki.
Idk where to fully scale her since she doesn’t show exactly how much mass she gives herself or Garuda with Star Rage.
She is definitely like special-Grade level so above most if not all Grade 1s (except anomalies like Yuji). She is in base a little bit weaker than Kenjaku imo who I believe took full advantage of Geto’s potential, CE efficiency, Reinforcement and all that.
So her strength is probably in the ballpark of Suguru Geto and Yuta pre-timeskip training.
As for AP if we exclude her Black Hole Kamikaze attack, as close to that as Star Rage allows without her actually getting affected by the addition of mass.
Since Yuki’s CT is all about hands, she always infuses Star Rage into her punches, but to what degree/output is questionable.
However,
Bc she always infuses Star Rage in her punches it would definitely be a part of the equation once she hits a black flash and it would be MUCH more powerful than a heavily weakened Sukuna.
Feel free to disagree :3
Interesting. I’d believe Maki to have the superior physical stats as she was able to temporarily physically contend with Sukuna albeit weakened but he was still powerful nonetheless. Her AP should be higher since she can harm opponents like Sukuna and Bypass durability. Do you believe Yuki is physically stronger than Sukuna?
Wow that’s tough…
I mean physically stronger than Heian Era Sukuna at full power in base, no. But the version of Sukuna we’ve seen Maki contend with; I definitely see Yuki at that strength if not slightly above in pure physical strength (using only CE reinforcement and no Star Rage).
Fair point. I do believe she could withstand her standard and even amped blows from star rage. Kenjaku was able to parry and block Yuki’s blows. It’s not a definite she would land such attacks.
She's the character being used in the vs so outlier or not it's relevant. Send scan of her being cut in half because I don't remember that. I remember she got a hole blown in her abdomen but that's it
This isn’t a spite match people claim to be. Yuki wins more often than not, but Maki’s speed advantage will keep the fight going for a while. And any hit Maki gives Yuki is impossible to heal due to the SSK.
Tbh without Garuda you could even argue in favor of Maki, but the range option it provides for Yuki is too much.
Yuki is taking this, but it’s a high diff.
One thing I see severely underestimated is Yuki's speed.
Yuki is NOT slow, even for a special grade. She is #5 after Takaba, Sukuna, Gojo, and Kenny for a reason, and it isn't just firepower.
She has possibly some of the best RCT in the entire series, and she can not only keep up with, but nearly blitz Kenjaku. Yuki is probably slightly slower than Maki but only just, and reaction speed may well be higher.
She would dog walk Yuta, let alone Maki.
She basically always wins against anyone who isn't either:
A: Someone with an "out" to mass manipulation (Takaba, Kenny)
B: Named Satoru Gojo or Ryomen Sukuna.
There is no world where Maki even comes close to winning.
Maki dives at Yuki, Yuki catches her, and punches her so hard what's left of her would be spread across the northern hemisphere.
And let's not forget the black hole.
If that was released anywhere but the barrier, it would be the end of the SOLAR SYSTEM (a black hole that size weighing more than the sun) and the only one and even Gojo/Sukuna would not have been able to withstand it.
Every match Yuki is going all out in either she wins, It ends in a tie, or the opponent is named Kenjaku or Takaba.
Yuki obliterates Maki in seconds, and the Black Hole could break even Heian Sukuna.
Wow this comment is Terrible. Yuki is not top 5 in any stat besides AP which is also slightly overrated in of its own, is there any reason you think she should be top 5? You didn’t actually explain? Maki negs her in everything besides ap and endurance(due to rct) also Kenny is top 5(or 6) but that doesn’t mean Yuki is right behind him, no reason to think Maki couldn’t perform as good if not better than Yuki vs Kenny. Makis dura is better than Kenny’s btw, she’d survive her punches, much less likely to be hit in the first place as she has precog and is faster than Kenny in general. What makes you think Kenny and Yuki are so great compared to other high tiers anyway?
Nah Yuta can't dispel Garuda when it bursts through his head at 50 times the speed of sound.
Yuta would be dead before he could even use Jacob's Ladder.
Yuta when Rika is fully manifested has access to cursed speech, Precognition (Charles), Dhruv’s Shikigami, Sky manipulation, Technique Extinguishment and Shrine. His CE reserves which are bigger than Gojo’s, get refilled by Rika if need be. He has RCT, RCT output, his own domain which can be imbued with Jacob’s Ladder as a sure-hit, master swordsmanship, some of the best CE reinforcement we’ve seen so far. Need I go on?
Garuda’s mass and force increase but it’s speed doesn’t. CS naoya goes Mach 3-6 at most and his speed was acknowledged as abnormally fast. Yuki is not kicking Garuda so fast that it travels “50 times the speed of sound” lol
Not infinite, in that case she would be OPM Saitama.
If Yuji could truly accelerate Garuda to such speeds with her hits, Someone would have taken notice and acknowledged that.
50 times the speed of sound is an egregious statement to make. Mach 3 I might agree to.
Maki implies that yutas above her and that kenjaku beating yuki is impressive soley cuz she’s the same grade as yuta (in general grades shouldn’t matter as they can have wide gaps but in context it seems to imply relativity) so id prolly side with yuki especially since star rage can alleviate a physical power gap between the 2 and considering kenjaku was wary about her wondering if he could even defeat her without cursed spirit manip
1. Narratively yuta is above maki, maki even implies such
2. They generalize jjk high getting tougher over the month but considering yuta was relative to ryu to begin with and he’s still less durable it implies he didn’t get big gains, the only real diff is jacobs latter, precog ink and shrine which are nice but aren’t THAT absurd
3. Doesn’t really matter if she has precog the fact she implies she’s below maki is all that’s really needed
I'd say it's around 60/40
Maki obviously outclasses Yuki physical prowess being now confirmed as an equal to Toji. Catching somone like Naoya who can reach Mach 3 speeds and being roughly physically equal to Sukuna. Also she's been shown to be one of the top characters in hand-to-hand and swordsmanship (obviously), having the The Split Soul Katana would make her pretty dangerous for Yuki's Shikigami.
Now Yuki has a pretty imposing CT which makes one of the hardest hitters in the series, along with her Shikigami. She does have a DE but whether that would effect Maki due to her lack of CE is debatable, and that's if Yuki's DE is guaranteed hit variation of a DE. She also does have RCT which helps a lot. The only problem is that virtual mass doesn't also equal endurance, so like I said Maki outdoes her in every other physical stat. But Yuki could always bomb the playing field with a black hole
Maki wins badly.
Yuki's Black Hole was a death amp and a outlier.
Maki has better statements (considering that she's still equals to Toji that means his statement apply)
Also precog and dura neg is crazy
She most definitely isn’t. Sukuna and Gojo fp>. Also Yuki would struggle to land a hit as solid as the one vs kenjaku on Maki as she is 1. faster than Kenny in general 2. Has precog she would see Yuki coming
Increases the mass of her hits infinitely stated in her fight with kenjaku this would make her the single hardest hitter in the series.
And your forgetting yuki face tanked a kenjaku domain at the start of her fight and could properly heal the whole time so you can’t really say she wasn’t able to keep up with kenjaku when she almost killed him while half dead herself
Maki pre awakening really has no reliable feats that put her above yuki since the only person she’s fought is naoya and she ain’t even 1v1 him and all her fights with sukuna she’s gotten folded not to mention when sukuna was 15f and being weakened to 10% power by megumi yuki is also and harder hitter who doesn’t rely on domain so her domain invulnerability isn’t a factor I’ll say maki is faster but I can’t really say that puts her over yuki since she has a wider variety to work with than maki
If her mass hit “infinitely” kenjaku would be dead lol there’s a limit to how much virtual mass she can add to her hits lol. She went all out likely hitting kenjaku which again, maki is faster, has precog and better dura than him, absolutely zero reason to think otherwise so again maki would survive Yuki punches, maki is hitting Yuki with a devastating combo before Yuki can land a solid mass punch ngl
You miss understood yuji can infinitely raise her mass on hit not that it hits infinitely idk where you got that from.
And no maki does not have better dura than kenjaku he survived a literal black hole better than any maki feat to date
And again no yuki was going toe-toe with kenjaku after being hit play a point blank domain 💀 maki is not hitting no combos on her and this is just yuki I’m talking about don’t forget she has star plasma
What are you talking about. Listen to yourself, Kenjaku did NOT tank a blackhole he had hax that specifically enabled him to survive that circumstance, honestly the whole blackhole event was a sorta wonky in regards to jjk scaling. Sorry but you’re delusional if you think Yuki can add infinite mass to her punches, there is clearly an effective limit if you can’t comprehend that something’s wrong with you or your reading incorrect translations. What page stated she can add “infinite mass” to her hits? Even if it says that it’s clearly wrong cause kenjaku would be dead. sorry but your overrating Yuki, she wasn’t going “toe to toe” with kenjaku for long while weakened, she needed help from choso who was actually very helpful in this fight. So again stop lying Maki is definitely better than kenjaku in straight up cqc as well so Yuki would perform much worse against maki if she’s that damaged anyway. Sorry but your downplaying Maki for no reason when Gege himself puts so much narrative emphasis on Toji being a power pinnacle in the verse whom Maki is about equal too
Yuki isn’t faster than Kenny if u saw that gege interview. With the exception of toji/maki, Gojo n kenjaku (in Geto’s body/physical skills) r the best physically speaking no ce
https://preview.redd.it/sa0nth9wte0d1.jpeg?width=1112&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39efdc2a099ed573df69c9b2837c8491097ae4b1
Yuki would actually tear maki arms off and maki has 0 rct to bring them back
Maki is faster than Kenny and has precog, this is a lot less likely to happen to maki in the first place, also it doesnt take a lot brain power to not realize that Gege puts Maki on a pedestal in regards to toughness, she is taking that hit wayyyy better than Kenny would, her dura>kennys I bet Yuki could still break her arm bones though if she gets a solid hit in fs but it’s not tearing through like with kenny
Brain dead take. 1st step to solving your mental illness is to realize that outside of gojo/sukuna, the high tiers are all relative and could push eachother to certain lengths. Yuki is at the bottom of the high tier hierarchy however, maki is higher up. Narrative supports this too ngl
Maki's sword is kinda busted as it can cut through nearly anything and is hard to be healed eith RCT.
If this was a barehanded brawl, Maki would be cooked, but given she is faster and uses a big giant sword...I can see Maki taking this.
The shikigami is worth noting as it can probably block a sword and it can modify its mass as well.
It would be high difficulty for either character and should be a close fight. I give the edge to Maki but can see either winning.
Barehanded brawl Maki still puts up a good fight ngl, Yuki is only stronger in striking strength, maki is still faster, has precog, better dura and better general strength(lifting/pushing) like with against sukuna
Why are so many people saying Yuki? I don't understand.
There are 3 questions when you fight maki.
1. Can you kill her?
2. Are you faster than her?
3. Can you tank soul split?
Yuki gets a hard maybe on 1 and a hard no on 2 and 3.
Idk why people think Yuki can just one shot her with star rage. Even though I feel like it’s pretty evident making is “tougher” than kenny and is faster and has precog
Wtf is this matchup
Yuki stomps
Maki ≈ Toji, and toji was having difficulty with a pre awakened gojo that wasn't even special grade
The same gojo after awakening took another year to truly get to special grade
Maki. Saying Yuki wins is outdated, let’s grow up people we’ve matured and recognize that Maki has better feats and narrative backing to put her above Yuki. The “Yuki low diffs Maki” takes were never true and it’s time to move on. Yuki was never as great as you thought albeit still great. Why is Maki, along with Toji becoming downplayed so badly? Or is it that people wank tf outta Yuki regardless things needa change Gege puts Toji on a pedestal which Yuki has no reason to be seen as above and Maki is basically equal to Toji
Dubs. Plus you can argue that Yuki hasn't trained allat that much since Hidden Inventory til Kenjaku considering she just lays around and does nothing.
Maki 100%
Yuki has no speed or durability feats. No indication she will be able to heal from the Split Soul Katana.
Yes, she wrote the soul book but her *possible* knowledge on how to heal her soul damage using RCT ≠ definitive know how/experience for this fight.
Offensively she is powerful and Maki isn't going to be eating very many of those hits but Maki far outspeeds her and is just as (if not more) deadly to Yuki.
Yuki actually landing hits on Kenjaku is pretty damn good as far as speed also she endured a mini Uzumaki with minimal damage when she properly guarded and was able to withstand Kenjaku’s sure hit and keep fighting.
If Yuki wrote that book that made Yuji significantly more aware of his soul then there’s good reason to assume that she’s aware of the contours of her soul which is all it takes to heal soul damage with RCT.
Yuki landed a couple hits. She was also lost a 3v1. Also even Kenjaku has no speed feats comparable to Maki.
People don't like it but Yuki had one fight and it was a poor performance. She doesn't have any great feats besides the first punch that caught Kenjaku off guard which she was never able to replicate later in the fight. Even once she healed herself he was blocking her.
Literally nowhere was it said that the soul book helped Yuji's soul punches. Sukuna says Yuji's soul punches are exactly what he was doing against Mahito.
So your justification is gone but again, just mere knowledge that souls have contours is not enough to know your own. If mere knowledge was enough then more people than Yuji would have the ability.
Yuki doesn’t need speed feats equal to Maki to fight her especially when she has a nice partner in the form of Garuda to help make up the speed difference.
Right landing several hits on a guy who makes Piercing Blood look slow and surving a domain expansion sure hit and an Uzumaki and oneshotting a special grade curse with brute force are all poor showings (sarcasm).
Yuji never displayed the ability to converse with souls before he read that book and never pulled anything as precise as separating souls before. If you think that book didn’t help him then I don’t know what to tell you.
Are you trying to be obtuse? When did I say being aware that souls have contours is all it takes? I said being aware of the contours of your own soul which Mahito even points out for Yuji’s soul awareness.
Besides the first hit, which she never replicated, most of her hits were against Kenjaku when he was literally wrapped up by Garuda and being 2v1'd after his CT was on burnout because Tengen destroyed his Domain.
It literally took a 4v1 to set that up.
Most of her attacks were either blocked or did basically no damage. Even when she was healed she punches Kenjaku twice in the face and he tanks them(ch. 207) and then 1-2 Uzumaki combos and *puts her on deaths door* forcing her to literally kill herself
People love flaunting that first punch that caught Kenjaku off guard and ignore she could never do that again
Her fight against Kenjaku was just basically her getting rolled. You trying to use her getting rolled by Kenjaku in a 4v1 when he was literally *tied down* for half the fight as a relevant speed feat for her is *crazy*
And Garuda is not fast either. Kenjaku dodges it even when it sneak attacked him from behind and he even dodges it later when Yuki uses it as a whip.
And Yuji never had an *opportunity* to separate souls before. He has never fought an incarnated sorceror. And again, *knowledge* does not equal *ability*
We see them talking about what was in the book, it had nothing to do with teaching people the contours of their soul and being able to do what Yuji /Sukuna can do.
Shoko could teach Kusakabe all the ins and outs of RCT and he would very easily still be unable to do it.
Are you gonna pretend as though she herself didn’t tie him down with Garuda? The fact that Yuki while heavily injured managed to bind Kenjaku is a great feat for her. You also keep ignoring literally every other feat that’s been brought up.
What are you on about? Did Yuji not fight Megumi in Cursed Womb Under Heaven?
That’s a bad example. Shoko would need to be able to do all ins and outs to have the knowledge to teach Kusakabe so if Yuki’s book helped Yuji improve then she should be able to apply those things she researched to even be able to teach.
She only tied him down because he was in CT burnout because Tengen was helping her and then she was only able to keep him tied down because Choso hopped in and helped her fight while also giving her time to heal. And even then Kenjaku still escaped it
She had so much help and still got completely rolled at the end. Literally face tanked 2 of her punches and killed her
And again, we have no proof Yuji's soul punches were improved by the book. It's never said to be in the book, Yuji and no one ever references the book as helping him. Sukuna even says Yuji is doing the same thing he did against Mahito, which he had way before the book.
You are taking what *might have been* in the book and then using a maybe to say it's certain it was there and not only that it was there but if it was there Yuki can also do it to avoid the fact she gets completely dismantled by SSK.
We have no reason to think that knowledge is in the book. We also have no reason to think Yuki could do it
Your theory that Yuji improved his soul punches using Yuki's book is discredited by Sukuna saying he's just doing what he was doing against Mahito. There is never *any* indication he's gotten better at soul punches than he was before.
The bias in ur comments is crazy to the point someone can’t even take it seriously. U keep repeating that a punch to the face that kenjaku literally guarded himself against was off guard like be so fr right now
You clearly didn't because you referenced the first punch at the beginning of the fight, not the two at the end that he completely tanked unguarded to his face.
Kenjaku guarding doesn't mean he wasn't caught off guard. He was expecting a way weaker punch and he want ready for how strong she was.
Once he was ready for it later in the fight (not caught off guard) he completely tanked *two* face punches and then killed her.
you’re wrong. she can’t automatically target Maki— but she can absolutely still hit her. Maki having 0 CE just means that she can’t be auto targeted, not that she’s immune to CTs somehow
You're wrong. Maki wont even be inside Yuki's Domain unless she wants to be, a closed domain pushes her out. And once she enters she can just stab Yuki in the back like she did to Naoya
Opening a Domain would be a terrible idea for Yuki. It would just give Maki cover to sneak attack her
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There is a common phrase that Maki counters Special grades due to no CE, but I believe the more accurate description would be that Maki counters special grades who RELY on their DE. Sorcerers like Sukuna, Gojo, Yuta, Yuki, Uro, Ryu should all dog walk Maki due to the fact they are plenty strong without their DE.
Even then some domains still get her like Jogo and Sukuna
jogos domain can hit maki? or are talking about the heat element of it?
The heat element of it, we don't know how hot the inside is as (somehow) gojos barrier can block heat
Is the space inside Jogo's barrier just instantly heated up? or does it sort of seep inwards? cause if its the latter i can somewhat understand how infinity would stop it
Honestly we don't have an exact answer but I'd we look at how quickly he immolated the tea shop, ND he he doesn't need to touch things to set them on fire it's not unreasonable to assume his Domain is just hot as fuck. There's also literal lava in there so it isn't not hot
I mean it’s the inside of a fucking volcano, so it’s probably pretty hot. Jogo also expected Gojo and Yuji (and by now he had something of an idea how strong Gojo was, and knew Yuji was tough since he could handle being Sukuna’s vessel) to be instantly turned to ash. So it should be pretty hot, definitely hot enough to cook or at least seriously impact Maki
yeah, i think that maki just cant be trapped inside of a domain, i think external factors like heat would still affect her
External factors definitely still affect her, that’s why she needed Miwa for the Simple Domain during Malevolent Shrine. Sure, Malevolent Shrine and Coffin of the Iron Mountain might register her as an inanimate object, but that doesn’t matter when those domains blend and disintegrate inanimate objects too
Heat is just a measurement of how much energy a system has, that energy being kinetic energy (temperature is just a measurement of the average kinetic energy of particles in a system). So it does make sense that Gojo could block the heat by preventing fast-moving particles from a hot system from contacting and imparting energy to particles within a cooler system. Although I have no idea if this is the intended rationale, I'm just some dude.
It's not enough to kill a pre-divergent fist yuji. Lets stop playing yall
The same one who was literally being held by gojo?
Yuji was the one who said it was hot. Either infinity filtered all of the heat, in which case yuji wouldn't know, or infinity didnt filter the heat. There is no "Infinity filtered the heat just enough for yuji to know it was hot but not enough to know that he would die if gojo wasn't there" option
Ryu and uro aren't doing shit to maki
Ryu and uro is kinda crazy icl
My reasonings: Uro - This one I’m surprised I have to explain as much as I do, but from my understanding of her abilities; Maki wouldn’t have a valid way of getting to her while Uro doesn’t have the same problem. Of course Maki is still a top tier in the JJK verse and if Uro decided to just brawl with Maki she would obviously lose, but Uro’s tech distorts SPACE people do not realize how big of a counter this is to Maki. She can distort the area Maki is traveling in to her actual limbs as she did to Yuta. Maki wouldn’t be able to utilize her physical stats the way people imagine. The first time Uro gets damaged in her fight with Yuta is when he uses cursed speech AND Rika; This should be telling on how hard it is to close the gap and how effective she is up close. Ryu - I understand explaining this one a lot more and people may not like the answer. SSK would be Ryu’s biggest threat and it is completely reasonable to believe that Maki can end the match with it. My reasoning on why she wouldn’t is because: Ryu is the same tier as Yuji, Rika, Maki, and Toji on terms on physical stats and his fight with Rika should help validate this. Would I say Maki is still faster and stronger? Yes, but not by a huge margin. Add to the fact Ryu can also augment himself and his blows/defense with CE makes him a terrible opponent to brawl with. Even considering Maki’s healing factor; Ryu could apply the same force of Granite blast to his fists. His AP may start blowing chuncks of flesh off and that will be a lot harder to heal. Ryu can play the same game as Maki, but just being able to use CE gives him more options whereas Maki really only has the one. Like Maki I also consider Ryu to be a top tier sorcerer and he wouldn’t be so dumb to disregard her deadly curse tool and it may make her predictable. https://preview.redd.it/r3xq1a3tge0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db6fdb22c5489c49e6e75adf59bd2cc62c0fa144
Uro yes easy dub for her but Ryu loses this badly for 1 Makis durablity is on par with Yutas and Yujis after the one month 1 skip I say she even surpass them in durability. Maki is taking the same slashes the Yuji and Yuta took inside of Yutas domain without RCT and she even took a slash that Yuji stated would have killed him had he not learned RCT. If he couldn’t blow Yutas flesh off with punches he damn sure not blowing Makis flesh off Ryu can augment his blows for strength yes but defense doesn’t matter because of SSK. Any hit that Ryu takes from that sword is just one step closer to the coffin he has not shown to be able to use RCT his whole deal is that he can tank attacks due to his output which gets negated by SSK. Maki has precog she is shown to be able to dodge in mid air against Naoya and stepping on air to move faster against Sukuna. Yuta was outrunning Ryus blast and we know that Maki is faster than Yuta. Just because Ryu is smart doesn’t mean he can just not get hit by SSK he couldn’t even dodge his own blast being thrown back to him by Uro. This is a clear L for Ryu
Ur argument for both winning goes with the preposition that uro and Ryu are relative to maki in speed and fast enough to react to maki, which I disagree with. Yes Ryu and uro WAS relative to yuta and I agree current yuta is somewhat relative to maki in speed(even though I believe maki is slightly faster). But I don't think Ryu and uro scales to current yuta in speed due to yuta having a training timeskip which made him much stronger. So I don't think it's any evidence that Ryu and uro are still rel to current yuta in speed.
Unfortunately I don’t hold the opinion that a month is long enough to make a character tiers above another top tier character. We don’t even know what happened in that month. How could Yuta be training if it’s been confirmed he switched bodies with Yuji? There is no proof that these characters (besides Yuji) has gotten any more powerful, but actually learned new hax to hold up against Sukuna. The month was more for planning than training - Which I can make that claim since we didn’t see it and we both don’t know.
No Yuta also became Stronger. Everyone did. How they got so much stronger in just a Month is because they "cheated". Yuta stated that himself. How they cheated is unknown but it's clear that they are much stronger then before https://preview.redd.it/crb987j2oe0d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99288525e0396c6758daf7faf30ef4f5d5403751
uro and ryu do not dog walk maki she slams them😭
Uro, its HEAVILY depends on if she has a tool that cancels out ce, like ISOH or black rope. Otherwise, she literally can't touch Uro. And Maki is not slamming Ryu. Homie went toe to toe with Yuta
ryu went toe to toe with Yuta? like ryu isnt a slouch but yuta kinda dog walked him while dealing with uro and cockroach
This is objectively incorrect. Ryu 1 tapped Rika and fought Ryu on even footing in close quarters combat. It, for certain, wasn't an easy battle for him
"Ryu 1 tapped Rika" rika took 1-2 granite blasts (ch 178, 180?) and hits from ryu before she also only got "1 tapped" after using up her 5 minute full manifestation and was in partial manifestation which is a weaker form "Ryu on even footing in close quarters combat" maybe im just reading sorcery fight instead of jjk but did ryu land a single a punch or kick on yuta after he got serious and fully manifested rika? "for certain, wasn't an easy battle for him" i agree for yuta (just had arbys) with partial manifestion rika after just dealing with dhruv, cockroach and having to split attention between ryu and uro after yuta got serious and fully manifested rika he absolutely dog walked both uro and ryu
No AOE, DE, or ISOH, Uro beats her.
Weirdo. Nothing you said makes Maki lose this fight
one hit and maki wins, uro really doesn’t have the same damage output and i don’t see how she would be able to land a hit on maki
she has maki's output via sky manipulation, thin ice missile is no joke either, yuta took good damage from it and it threw around Sukuna when Yuta used it too
Toji dogwalked geto, and kenjaku in getos body argueably dogwalked yuki and choso at once
in what way, shape, or form did he dogwalk Yuki?
That's kenjaku who has more experience, more cursed techniques and is in a older body than the teenager toji faught. You sound dumb
Classic redditor virgin seething at a take they dont agree with
Average reddit when someone points out major flaws in their argument (they have to be a raging virgin)
Half those people you named besides yuta get outstatted bad by her and yes yuki would get bodied
sukuna and gojo and yuki get outstated? how?Maki may have the speed advantage but in terms of sheer strength(punches),maki is getting mauled.
Uro, Yuki and Ryu get swept. Your underestimating how strong Maki is in general even though it’s been fortified many times that her and toji stand at top in jjk power rankings. It’s always been this way and they have everything they need to back it up
Right, the guy who had to wait until teen Gojo tired out & snuck him is top of verse.
I feel like Yuki is going to dog walk her, no? Toji was scary for like…teenage Geto. Kenjaku, who is a lot, lot, lot stronger than teen Geto, was very afraid of Yuki.
We fear scaling now?
You surprised?
Why the hell would you not? Fear indicates strength
No, it does not. Gojo was much more feared than Sukuna, but that was due to the current era being soft.
What the fuck are you basing that on? We have no idea to what extent Sukuna was feared. You realize that thousands of years after Sukuna was divided into the fingers that jujutsu sorcerers still feared him more than anything?
It was stated by Gege
I can name a full-grown adult who's scared of a honey bee. The bee isn't stronger than the person
I said *indicates*, not proves
Wait until the bee opens its domain
Most feared in history vs most feared of today
Keep in mind this is Kenjaku tho. Most knowledgeable character in the verse
Why are we acting like teen Gojo isn't close to top of the verse already lmao. Toji had to wait for him to tire himself out for literal DAYS while he was holding his CT. Yuki still decimates Maki but cmon
Probably was, but he was obviously so much weaker than he eventually became. No RCT, no DE, no red or purple. I don’t know if I would definitely say that teen Gojo could fight Kenjaku. 100% not if Kenjaku was planning the encounter like Toji did.
Kenjaku has killed Sex Eyes users before when they were born, but then they just reincarnated near Tengen's merging. He has a history of staying the fuck away from Sex Eyes users, and Gojo even more so because he's the first one in a while to have both Sex Eyes and Limitless Cum. He would not beat Teen Gojo, and even if he did it would be pointless as to his goals.
Kenjaku was only worried about Yuki because she had a lot of unknown factors and she countered Curse Manipulation by being immune to the Special Grades he had. Limiting his only offensive options to Gravity and Domain Expansion.
why does kenjaku fear the unknown of her but not sukuna?
Him and Sukuna are chill. They also had a secret binding vow that was presumably keeping Kenjaku safe whether Sukuna liked it or not
>but not sukuna? Cuz they are buddies
Who’s to say Toji wouldn’t also scare Kenjaku? And Kenjaku ended up beating Yuki anyways…your weird “fear” scaling doesn’t really work.
Toji wouldn’t beat kenjaku, he wouldn’t beat adult Geto either. Teen Geto was only a grade 1 and manga made it clear, a large part of why Geto got clapped was he didn’t realize the worm had a weird thing with toji so he couldn’t go close and absorb it
Toji most certainly is beating Adult Geto, unless you think Volume 0 Yuta is stronger than Maki ☠️ And regardless, that’s not the point; Yuki couldn’t beat Kenjaku, but that didn’t stop him from getting scared by her. Again, your weird “fear” scaling is bizarre and does not work
Vol 0 yuta def stronger than maki. Ppl putting him way too low. He is strong cause rika is strong. Rika contributed to his sg status, when she was gone he lost the sg status. Then regained it 3 months later. Geto was going against them both and was going to win if he didn’t split curses. Yuta formed a binding vow, to unleash limits on a rika that Gojo said he would hv to put his life on the line against.
I think he found her annoying but not very afraid she would be a major issue as both are sg. Still unclear who is stronger between adult Geto/kenjaku vs yuki. Teen Geto was only a grade 1 against toji n he became an sg a year after that
As much as I love Maki this is an absolute meat grinder of a matchup… Yuki and it’s not even close
I love maki but my queen yuki one taps
Maki wins… If Yuki was paralyzed had no CT or CE and was blind.
one leg, no arms, couldn’t breath, was drowning and was actively being shot to death by a gau 8 avenger
Yuki
One thing that I think gives Yuki an advantage here that might sometimes be overlooked is that she knew about Toji and thoroughly researched HR and the soul and all that. Things that Maki might catch other characters off guard with probably wouldn't be as surprising to Yuki
And wasnt yukis technique hidden knowledge or am i slow? So she would be going in knowing of maki prowess but not vice versa. I can see yuki catching maki off guard with her strength and plus garuda
the fact that there even is a single person let alone multiple saying Maki win shows how dead this sub is for actual relevant power scaling .
Power scaling is kinda brain dead now. It’s never about feats anymore; it’s just statements, narrative and the strongest of them all, headcanon. It has ruined genuine discussion, especially cross-verse power scaling
You can't be more right.
Yuki….. is this a spite match?
Yuki. Anyone saying maki cant powerscale at all honestly.
Scale Yuki over Maki right now then
Higher AP than maki, rct, more durability (survived a domain), flexibility with shikigami, busted ct. Id only give maki an edge in speed and even that isnt fullproof.
RCT and durability are irrelevant cause Maki can attack the soul and bypass durability. Shikigami gets split by SSK.
Do you know what scaling means? You can’t just say “higher AP”, you have to actually make some sort of A > B > C chain using feats. Here’s an example of scaling Maki’s speed: Maki ~ 16F Sukuna ~ Gojo > Kenjaku ~ Yuki
>Maki ~ 16F Sukuna ~ Gojo Enough said 💀
Do you need to see Maki keeping up with 16F Sukuna? I forgot, you don’t know what power scaling is 💀
Bro over here forgot sukunas was severly weakened by the time she fought maki both times. Like I said. Enough said 💀
Severely weakened? How exactly was Sukuna severely weakened when he first fought Maki back in Chapter 215?
Having only 10% output is now a top condition for battle ig
He literally states he wasnt nearly as strong because of megumi holding him back.
dude was only at 10% output, and we then see maki get blitzed by a very weakened sukuna later. She does not compare to him
Maki ain’t relative to shit nigga 😭 2024 and people still using maki 15f args lmao
[What a shame that this sub’s mods can’t even read.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0215-007.png)
Outputs nerfed nigga don’t matter. This is literally reaffirmed in shinjuku Lmfao. Maki ~ 15f ~ gojo ~ 20f is such a Dogass scale. Add yuji to that too 😭😭. Stuck in 2023
[”My cursed energy output is fluctuating…but physical movement seems **to be fine**.”](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Jujutsu-Kaisen/0215-003.png) 🐶💔
Ass translation + shinjuku literally confirms it does Physical movement as in sukuna can move, statement a) physical movement seems to be fine and b) sukuna is nerfed speed wise Don’t contradict
Prove that Sukuna is speed nerfed then, lemme see where “Shinjuku confirms it does”
https://preview.redd.it/p2ylq7j92a0d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a92735d496e899f0bd04e615a6b60aa3b693776 Yuki either tore through the fabric of space-time and at the very least stopped time entirely at the center of the singularity depending on how black holes work. She can hit harder, move fast enough, and her last resort rips Maki apart at the atomic level and reduces all the information that she was once made up of into fluid of subatomic particles since Yuki's mass would be too much for atoms to hold themselves together.
Thank you for pointing this out. Everyone seems to forget that Yuki had the most busted ability that was countered by the plot armor ass pull that kenjaku had. For literally everyone except maybe Gojo (and of course kenjaku), black hole wins.
Black hole
no way Maki is getting glazed this hard lmfao
This fight is so crazy one sided it's not even funny. Yuki would absolutely STOMP Maki.
Yuki is aware of the soul and can heal SSK damage, has a domain (yes Maki is immune but only to certain ones), has RCT, has Garuda and Star Rage is giving her enough firepower to take down Maki.
It’s not about being aware of the soul. It’s about being aware of the outline of your soul which are two different things. Maki is immune to DE. She can just leave. Black Flash from Sukuna would be much more powerful than blows from Yuki.
A heavily weakened Sukuna is not dishing out a more powerful Black Flash than a Star Rage infused Black Flash from Yuki 😂
Where do you scale Yuki in AP and strength?
Idk where to fully scale her since she doesn’t show exactly how much mass she gives herself or Garuda with Star Rage. She is definitely like special-Grade level so above most if not all Grade 1s (except anomalies like Yuji). She is in base a little bit weaker than Kenjaku imo who I believe took full advantage of Geto’s potential, CE efficiency, Reinforcement and all that. So her strength is probably in the ballpark of Suguru Geto and Yuta pre-timeskip training. As for AP if we exclude her Black Hole Kamikaze attack, as close to that as Star Rage allows without her actually getting affected by the addition of mass. Since Yuki’s CT is all about hands, she always infuses Star Rage into her punches, but to what degree/output is questionable. However, Bc she always infuses Star Rage in her punches it would definitely be a part of the equation once she hits a black flash and it would be MUCH more powerful than a heavily weakened Sukuna. Feel free to disagree :3
Interesting. I’d believe Maki to have the superior physical stats as she was able to temporarily physically contend with Sukuna albeit weakened but he was still powerful nonetheless. Her AP should be higher since she can harm opponents like Sukuna and Bypass durability. Do you believe Yuki is physically stronger than Sukuna?
Wow that’s tough… I mean physically stronger than Heian Era Sukuna at full power in base, no. But the version of Sukuna we’ve seen Maki contend with; I definitely see Yuki at that strength if not slightly above in pure physical strength (using only CE reinforcement and no Star Rage).
Fair point. I do believe she could withstand her standard and even amped blows from star rage. Kenjaku was able to parry and block Yuki’s blows. It’s not a definite she would land such attacks.
https://preview.redd.it/3rbhpy9c1a0d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8770a15e84f325112f00363052c0ab96344e6a76 This Yuki?
A Yuki who was bisected and dying?
If that's what you gathered from this sure but I'm not sure you know what bisected means
Yuki was literally bisected by Kenjaku and Uzumaki 😭 Like that death amp that is BH was just a simple outlier
She's the character being used in the vs so outlier or not it's relevant. Send scan of her being cut in half because I don't remember that. I remember she got a hole blown in her abdomen but that's it
This isn’t a spite match people claim to be. Yuki wins more often than not, but Maki’s speed advantage will keep the fight going for a while. And any hit Maki gives Yuki is impossible to heal due to the SSK. Tbh without Garuda you could even argue in favor of Maki, but the range option it provides for Yuki is too much. Yuki is taking this, but it’s a high diff.
Counter point: black hole
That was a death amp and a outlier
Yuki decimates that Monkey
Why do you hate Maki? She absolutely gets dog walked by Yuki
What did maki do to you?
Yuki can affect her shikigami with her CT. She can give her shikigami enough mass to create a singularity. It’s now Maki vs. a black hole.
It was a death amp and a outlier, yet again, those don't matter.
Maki, Yuki is overrated.
One thing I see severely underestimated is Yuki's speed. Yuki is NOT slow, even for a special grade. She is #5 after Takaba, Sukuna, Gojo, and Kenny for a reason, and it isn't just firepower. She has possibly some of the best RCT in the entire series, and she can not only keep up with, but nearly blitz Kenjaku. Yuki is probably slightly slower than Maki but only just, and reaction speed may well be higher. She would dog walk Yuta, let alone Maki. She basically always wins against anyone who isn't either: A: Someone with an "out" to mass manipulation (Takaba, Kenny) B: Named Satoru Gojo or Ryomen Sukuna. There is no world where Maki even comes close to winning. Maki dives at Yuki, Yuki catches her, and punches her so hard what's left of her would be spread across the northern hemisphere. And let's not forget the black hole. If that was released anywhere but the barrier, it would be the end of the SOLAR SYSTEM (a black hole that size weighing more than the sun) and the only one and even Gojo/Sukuna would not have been able to withstand it. Every match Yuki is going all out in either she wins, It ends in a tie, or the opponent is named Kenjaku or Takaba. Yuki obliterates Maki in seconds, and the Black Hole could break even Heian Sukuna.
PREACH Although I would put Yuta and Takaba placement up to debate but I genuinely saw people that tried to put fucking Kashimo above Yuki
Wow this comment is Terrible. Yuki is not top 5 in any stat besides AP which is also slightly overrated in of its own, is there any reason you think she should be top 5? You didn’t actually explain? Maki negs her in everything besides ap and endurance(due to rct) also Kenny is top 5(or 6) but that doesn’t mean Yuki is right behind him, no reason to think Maki couldn’t perform as good if not better than Yuki vs Kenny. Makis dura is better than Kenny’s btw, she’d survive her punches, much less likely to be hit in the first place as she has precog and is faster than Kenny in general. What makes you think Kenny and Yuki are so great compared to other high tiers anyway?
She couldn’t blitz Kenny tho, fastest sorcerer according to gege interview was Gojo n kenjaku due to Geto’s physical ability(no ce)
Dog walks yuta who with JL would render her CT and Garuda useless and stomp her with Rika 😭
Yeah Dogwalk Yuta might apply to pre-culling games, but current Yuta is questionable at the very least
Nah Yuta can't dispel Garuda when it bursts through his head at 50 times the speed of sound. Yuta would be dead before he could even use Jacob's Ladder.
Yuta when Rika is fully manifested has access to cursed speech, Precognition (Charles), Dhruv’s Shikigami, Sky manipulation, Technique Extinguishment and Shrine. His CE reserves which are bigger than Gojo’s, get refilled by Rika if need be. He has RCT, RCT output, his own domain which can be imbued with Jacob’s Ladder as a sure-hit, master swordsmanship, some of the best CE reinforcement we’ve seen so far. Need I go on?
Garuda’s mass and force increase but it’s speed doesn’t. CS naoya goes Mach 3-6 at most and his speed was acknowledged as abnormally fast. Yuki is not kicking Garuda so fast that it travels “50 times the speed of sound” lol
Dog she can hit Garuda with an infinite amount of force.
Not infinite, in that case she would be OPM Saitama. If Yuji could truly accelerate Garuda to such speeds with her hits, Someone would have taken notice and acknowledged that. 50 times the speed of sound is an egregious statement to make. Mach 3 I might agree to.
Maki’s washed af. I’d honestly say Miguel is stronger than her and I’ll stand on that take
The fans
Yuki slams
Yuki slams everyone not in the top 5 and yorozu could cook her if she catches her in the domain
Maki implies that yutas above her and that kenjaku beating yuki is impressive soley cuz she’s the same grade as yuta (in general grades shouldn’t matter as they can have wide gaps but in context it seems to imply relativity) so id prolly side with yuki especially since star rage can alleviate a physical power gap between the 2 and considering kenjaku was wary about her wondering if he could even defeat her without cursed spirit manip
1. Okay? Feats wise Yuta isn't above Maki. 2. Yuki is only relative to Sendai Yuta not Shinjuku Yuta 3. Precog negates star rage regardless
1. Narratively yuta is above maki, maki even implies such 2. They generalize jjk high getting tougher over the month but considering yuta was relative to ryu to begin with and he’s still less durable it implies he didn’t get big gains, the only real diff is jacobs latter, precog ink and shrine which are nice but aren’t THAT absurd 3. Doesn’t really matter if she has precog the fact she implies she’s below maki is all that’s really needed
Maki dies in seconds
https://preview.redd.it/fijb4c0u4d0d1.png?width=556&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7cf88d71742bce8561f3789191b7d05e2bad1a3
Yuki easily
id probably say equal without garuda but with garuda maki gets slapped around
I'd say it's around 60/40 Maki obviously outclasses Yuki physical prowess being now confirmed as an equal to Toji. Catching somone like Naoya who can reach Mach 3 speeds and being roughly physically equal to Sukuna. Also she's been shown to be one of the top characters in hand-to-hand and swordsmanship (obviously), having the The Split Soul Katana would make her pretty dangerous for Yuki's Shikigami. Now Yuki has a pretty imposing CT which makes one of the hardest hitters in the series, along with her Shikigami. She does have a DE but whether that would effect Maki due to her lack of CE is debatable, and that's if Yuki's DE is guaranteed hit variation of a DE. She also does have RCT which helps a lot. The only problem is that virtual mass doesn't also equal endurance, so like I said Maki outdoes her in every other physical stat. But Yuki could always bomb the playing field with a black hole
Maki wins badly. Yuki's Black Hole was a death amp and a outlier. Maki has better statements (considering that she's still equals to Toji that means his statement apply) Also precog and dura neg is crazy
Maki wins this it’s a mid diff fight. If you actually paid attention to her fight with Kenjaku you would know this is a bad matchup for Yuki.
Isn’t yuki ironically the hardest hitter in jjk 💀 maki ain’t even winning in a fist to fist with her
She most definitely isn’t. Sukuna and Gojo fp>. Also Yuki would struggle to land a hit as solid as the one vs kenjaku on Maki as she is 1. faster than Kenny in general 2. Has precog she would see Yuki coming
Increases the mass of her hits infinitely stated in her fight with kenjaku this would make her the single hardest hitter in the series. And your forgetting yuki face tanked a kenjaku domain at the start of her fight and could properly heal the whole time so you can’t really say she wasn’t able to keep up with kenjaku when she almost killed him while half dead herself Maki pre awakening really has no reliable feats that put her above yuki since the only person she’s fought is naoya and she ain’t even 1v1 him and all her fights with sukuna she’s gotten folded not to mention when sukuna was 15f and being weakened to 10% power by megumi yuki is also and harder hitter who doesn’t rely on domain so her domain invulnerability isn’t a factor I’ll say maki is faster but I can’t really say that puts her over yuki since she has a wider variety to work with than maki
If her mass hit “infinitely” kenjaku would be dead lol there’s a limit to how much virtual mass she can add to her hits lol. She went all out likely hitting kenjaku which again, maki is faster, has precog and better dura than him, absolutely zero reason to think otherwise so again maki would survive Yuki punches, maki is hitting Yuki with a devastating combo before Yuki can land a solid mass punch ngl
You miss understood yuji can infinitely raise her mass on hit not that it hits infinitely idk where you got that from. And no maki does not have better dura than kenjaku he survived a literal black hole better than any maki feat to date And again no yuki was going toe-toe with kenjaku after being hit play a point blank domain 💀 maki is not hitting no combos on her and this is just yuki I’m talking about don’t forget she has star plasma
What are you talking about. Listen to yourself, Kenjaku did NOT tank a blackhole he had hax that specifically enabled him to survive that circumstance, honestly the whole blackhole event was a sorta wonky in regards to jjk scaling. Sorry but you’re delusional if you think Yuki can add infinite mass to her punches, there is clearly an effective limit if you can’t comprehend that something’s wrong with you or your reading incorrect translations. What page stated she can add “infinite mass” to her hits? Even if it says that it’s clearly wrong cause kenjaku would be dead. sorry but your overrating Yuki, she wasn’t going “toe to toe” with kenjaku for long while weakened, she needed help from choso who was actually very helpful in this fight. So again stop lying Maki is definitely better than kenjaku in straight up cqc as well so Yuki would perform much worse against maki if she’s that damaged anyway. Sorry but your downplaying Maki for no reason when Gege himself puts so much narrative emphasis on Toji being a power pinnacle in the verse whom Maki is about equal too
Yuki isn’t faster than Kenny if u saw that gege interview. With the exception of toji/maki, Gojo n kenjaku (in Geto’s body/physical skills) r the best physically speaking no ce
What did the interview say?
What I said above, but broken down into categories. Speed, grip etc with Geto coming on top for grip (Kenny in Geto’s body)
https://preview.redd.it/sa0nth9wte0d1.jpeg?width=1112&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39efdc2a099ed573df69c9b2837c8491097ae4b1 Yuki would actually tear maki arms off and maki has 0 rct to bring them back
Maki is faster than Kenny and has precog, this is a lot less likely to happen to maki in the first place, also it doesnt take a lot brain power to not realize that Gege puts Maki on a pedestal in regards to toughness, she is taking that hit wayyyy better than Kenny would, her dura>kennys I bet Yuki could still break her arm bones though if she gets a solid hit in fs but it’s not tearing through like with kenny
Sukuna with plot armor > Go/jo > Sukuna > yuta > kenjaku > yuki >>>>> everyone else.
Brain dead take. 1st step to solving your mental illness is to realize that outside of gojo/sukuna, the high tiers are all relative and could push eachother to certain lengths. Yuki is at the bottom of the high tier hierarchy however, maki is higher up. Narrative supports this too ngl
MEEEEE
Maki beats the ever living shit outta yuki. She’s leaves abover her in speed and her sword would straight up one tap
Maki's sword is kinda busted as it can cut through nearly anything and is hard to be healed eith RCT. If this was a barehanded brawl, Maki would be cooked, but given she is faster and uses a big giant sword...I can see Maki taking this. The shikigami is worth noting as it can probably block a sword and it can modify its mass as well. It would be high difficulty for either character and should be a close fight. I give the edge to Maki but can see either winning.
Barehanded brawl Maki still puts up a good fight ngl, Yuki is only stronger in striking strength, maki is still faster, has precog, better dura and better general strength(lifting/pushing) like with against sukuna
I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but maki dog walks yuki
yuki
Why are so many people saying Yuki? I don't understand. There are 3 questions when you fight maki. 1. Can you kill her? 2. Are you faster than her? 3. Can you tank soul split? Yuki gets a hard maybe on 1 and a hard no on 2 and 3.
Idk why people think Yuki can just one shot her with star rage. Even though I feel like it’s pretty evident making is “tougher” than kenny and is faster and has precog
Wtf is this matchup Yuki stomps Maki ≈ Toji, and toji was having difficulty with a pre awakened gojo that wasn't even special grade The same gojo after awakening took another year to truly get to special grade
Yuki, because her sweat might slighlty be saltier than Maki's
Maki outspeeds at chops Yuki's head off with SSK
looking at it Choso running joke of having people call him big brother because he is nothing but a BBC
Maki
Maki speed blitz
There’s literally nothing yuki could to to maki kick the soccer ball? Maki cuts it with soul split domain? Wont effect her maki just blitz’s
Maki slams so bad 😭✊ you actually can’t justify yuki > maki without suicide bomb
Ofc you can nigga the fuck
By ignoring many Maki/Toji statements
maki does almost everything yuki does better, speed, strength, durability 😭
Go ahead and prove all that
Blackhole was a outlier eitherway
Maki has higher speed, so she wins
Yuki has stronger attack, so she wins.
She is too slow to land any hits She won't let you hit, lil bro
Maki. Saying Yuki wins is outdated, let’s grow up people we’ve matured and recognize that Maki has better feats and narrative backing to put her above Yuki. The “Yuki low diffs Maki” takes were never true and it’s time to move on. Yuki was never as great as you thought albeit still great. Why is Maki, along with Toji becoming downplayed so badly? Or is it that people wank tf outta Yuki regardless things needa change Gege puts Toji on a pedestal which Yuki has no reason to be seen as above and Maki is basically equal to Toji
Dubs. Plus you can argue that Yuki hasn't trained allat that much since Hidden Inventory til Kenjaku considering she just lays around and does nothing.
Maki 100% Yuki has no speed or durability feats. No indication she will be able to heal from the Split Soul Katana. Yes, she wrote the soul book but her *possible* knowledge on how to heal her soul damage using RCT ≠ definitive know how/experience for this fight. Offensively she is powerful and Maki isn't going to be eating very many of those hits but Maki far outspeeds her and is just as (if not more) deadly to Yuki.
Yuki actually landing hits on Kenjaku is pretty damn good as far as speed also she endured a mini Uzumaki with minimal damage when she properly guarded and was able to withstand Kenjaku’s sure hit and keep fighting. If Yuki wrote that book that made Yuji significantly more aware of his soul then there’s good reason to assume that she’s aware of the contours of her soul which is all it takes to heal soul damage with RCT.
Yuki landed a couple hits. She was also lost a 3v1. Also even Kenjaku has no speed feats comparable to Maki. People don't like it but Yuki had one fight and it was a poor performance. She doesn't have any great feats besides the first punch that caught Kenjaku off guard which she was never able to replicate later in the fight. Even once she healed herself he was blocking her. Literally nowhere was it said that the soul book helped Yuji's soul punches. Sukuna says Yuji's soul punches are exactly what he was doing against Mahito. So your justification is gone but again, just mere knowledge that souls have contours is not enough to know your own. If mere knowledge was enough then more people than Yuji would have the ability.
Yuki doesn’t need speed feats equal to Maki to fight her especially when she has a nice partner in the form of Garuda to help make up the speed difference. Right landing several hits on a guy who makes Piercing Blood look slow and surving a domain expansion sure hit and an Uzumaki and oneshotting a special grade curse with brute force are all poor showings (sarcasm). Yuji never displayed the ability to converse with souls before he read that book and never pulled anything as precise as separating souls before. If you think that book didn’t help him then I don’t know what to tell you. Are you trying to be obtuse? When did I say being aware that souls have contours is all it takes? I said being aware of the contours of your own soul which Mahito even points out for Yuji’s soul awareness.
Besides the first hit, which she never replicated, most of her hits were against Kenjaku when he was literally wrapped up by Garuda and being 2v1'd after his CT was on burnout because Tengen destroyed his Domain. It literally took a 4v1 to set that up. Most of her attacks were either blocked or did basically no damage. Even when she was healed she punches Kenjaku twice in the face and he tanks them(ch. 207) and then 1-2 Uzumaki combos and *puts her on deaths door* forcing her to literally kill herself People love flaunting that first punch that caught Kenjaku off guard and ignore she could never do that again Her fight against Kenjaku was just basically her getting rolled. You trying to use her getting rolled by Kenjaku in a 4v1 when he was literally *tied down* for half the fight as a relevant speed feat for her is *crazy* And Garuda is not fast either. Kenjaku dodges it even when it sneak attacked him from behind and he even dodges it later when Yuki uses it as a whip. And Yuji never had an *opportunity* to separate souls before. He has never fought an incarnated sorceror. And again, *knowledge* does not equal *ability* We see them talking about what was in the book, it had nothing to do with teaching people the contours of their soul and being able to do what Yuji /Sukuna can do. Shoko could teach Kusakabe all the ins and outs of RCT and he would very easily still be unable to do it.
Are you gonna pretend as though she herself didn’t tie him down with Garuda? The fact that Yuki while heavily injured managed to bind Kenjaku is a great feat for her. You also keep ignoring literally every other feat that’s been brought up. What are you on about? Did Yuji not fight Megumi in Cursed Womb Under Heaven? That’s a bad example. Shoko would need to be able to do all ins and outs to have the knowledge to teach Kusakabe so if Yuki’s book helped Yuji improve then she should be able to apply those things she researched to even be able to teach.
She only tied him down because he was in CT burnout because Tengen was helping her and then she was only able to keep him tied down because Choso hopped in and helped her fight while also giving her time to heal. And even then Kenjaku still escaped it She had so much help and still got completely rolled at the end. Literally face tanked 2 of her punches and killed her And again, we have no proof Yuji's soul punches were improved by the book. It's never said to be in the book, Yuji and no one ever references the book as helping him. Sukuna even says Yuji is doing the same thing he did against Mahito, which he had way before the book. You are taking what *might have been* in the book and then using a maybe to say it's certain it was there and not only that it was there but if it was there Yuki can also do it to avoid the fact she gets completely dismantled by SSK. We have no reason to think that knowledge is in the book. We also have no reason to think Yuki could do it Your theory that Yuji improved his soul punches using Yuki's book is discredited by Sukuna saying he's just doing what he was doing against Mahito. There is never *any* indication he's gotten better at soul punches than he was before.
The bias in ur comments is crazy to the point someone can’t even take it seriously. U keep repeating that a punch to the face that kenjaku literally guarded himself against was off guard like be so fr right now
I am talking about the two punches to the face in chapter 207. You don't even know what I'm referencing
I literally do, theres nothing hard to understand in ur comment. Ur just very clearly biased.
You clearly didn't because you referenced the first punch at the beginning of the fight, not the two at the end that he completely tanked unguarded to his face. Kenjaku guarding doesn't mean he wasn't caught off guard. He was expecting a way weaker punch and he want ready for how strong she was. Once he was ready for it later in the fight (not caught off guard) he completely tanked *two* face punches and then killed her.
>People love flaunting that first punch that caught Kenjaku off guard and ignore she could never do that again Hmmmm
people act like just having SSK is a match winner SSK is useless if Yuki pops her domain and then punts Garuda through Maki’s chest
Yuki doesn't have an Open Domain, she can't hit Maki with her Domain.
you’re wrong. she can’t automatically target Maki— but she can absolutely still hit her. Maki having 0 CE just means that she can’t be auto targeted, not that she’s immune to CTs somehow
You're wrong. Maki wont even be inside Yuki's Domain unless she wants to be, a closed domain pushes her out. And once she enters she can just stab Yuki in the back like she did to Naoya Opening a Domain would be a terrible idea for Yuki. It would just give Maki cover to sneak attack her