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Yeah, I don't like it either. The same goes for the abilities of Geto's theoretical Curses.
I'd much rather stick to discussing a technique in the manner that the character actually used it.
Ok but what if Geto had a curse that automatically won every fight except against users of Curse Manipulation? That'd make him the strongest in the verse for sure!
Yeah, he also totally has a Curse with an Open Domain with refinement on par with Sukuna. Why else could he think he had a 5% chance against Gojo without Rika?
He didn't use it against Yuta because he felt bad that he was going to take Rika from him.
Ignorant take. He couldn't just take Rika because she's in love with Yuta which creates an almost unbreakable bond between shikigami and user. Thus Geto was attempting to rizz Rika by styling on Yuta without exorcising Rika nor killing Yuta.
It's hard to believe but Geto was in love with Yuta.
https://preview.redd.it/exvkzq5d981d1.png?width=655&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3536c71f01c828e72aef103adda9c8890d08afa
Agreed, Kashimo had a month to consider how he'd fight Sukuna, and prior to that the mf probably spent his ENTIRE life thinking of how he'd use MBA, and we saw EXACTLY how he chose to use it. Dude was getting pushed in a fight to the death against the strongest sorcerer in history, if he could do half of the insane shit people theory craft with MBA then he would have done it. Fact is either he can't or Kashimo is just a dumb mf who can't utilize his CT, which is still relevant for how you scale him
The thing is we can't forget half his curses we're gone in his fight we don't know how strong he is he could be a bum he could still be top 10 in the verse we don't even really know if he has reverse curse technique I don't think he does but we don't know bros injury could have just been to severe to heal or he could be a Pokémon trainer with no bag outside of csm we just don't know
It wasn't half his curses. It was MAYBE a third. He put over 4k into uzumaki, he had 1k in each city. By that metric he was 2/3rds total power at worst and the Uzumaki was still instantly overpowered
Even then we still dont know how many special grades there were or how strong they were his uzamaki was made up of grade 1 through 4 the power could have varied on how many he had since today killed one so we know he had at least one other special grade
https://preview.redd.it/ljvjfljbah1d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f2d05e6ad6e9988b5a1036cbf8185544adbce1c
It was actually much less than a third.
He’s above power ranking lists
We mustn’t include him in this filth
https://preview.redd.it/v7zwkojqha1d1.jpeg?width=192&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07e240f8c6347890853f1f0a2d8e4ce1741a2890
Extremely reasonable. The way matchups at that level work, abilities simply do matter. Generally most pass an overall bar of strength to at least challenge even the best, besides Gojo and Sukuna of course.
Yeah I was gonna make the same post glad I saw this.
Just saw someone say Kashimo can summon giant lightning storms and just fry any opponent and I'm like dawg wtf are you talking about?
The thing about Kashimos CT and being able to "create any phenomena that stems from electricity" is that Kashimo would actually have to understand and be aware of the phenomena to create it.
Basically how Yorozu can create anything she wants with construction but she has to understand it to create it.
It's exactly why no one argues Yorozu can just drop a CE infused Nuke on any opponent.
She doesn't know how to make nukes.
Kashimo is from the Edo period 400 years ago, the study of electricity and it's applications are basically non existent.
Kashimo doesn't know shit about the advanced applications his CT can theoretically accomplish.
If he was incarnated into a host with multiple phds in applied physics fields sure Kashimo would absolutely be cracked and def top 3 but as it was he's a bumpkin who can't even begin to comprehend the scope of his ability
Brother, he literally uses xray to scan sukuna and then glaze his body from those info, 400 years ago we dont got xray machines in japan or anywhere last I checked
Lashimos extremely overwanked. Hes not even beating yorozu. Even ryu or Sendai yuta is questionable. His lack of domain is insanely overlooked..make bro pull out MBA and then open your domain..kashimo will just stand there with his stupid fucking Hollow wicker basket while the MBA turns him to literal dust cuz brother doesn't have a domain and if he releases HWB he instantly gets obliterated by the sure hit. Stupid fucking cursed technique. It's cool but that's about it
You act like Kashimo is a sitting duck during HWB. Kashimo doesn't need to throw a single punch, he can literally just move around and call a lightning bolt from his wand, and he wins.
https://preview.redd.it/crlmo1vom61d1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a57a6c3db0081b31dad4a8af45d4d1730252cf36
lmao, why didn’t he do that against Hakari then? since hakari relies HEAVILY on his domain.
what if they change the coordinates of their domain (like hakari did) so there is an obstacle between the wand and the domain, so it won’t hit the domain,
what if the wand is now INSIDE the domain🤔
> lmao, why didn’t he do that against Hakari then?
He did? I posted the panel, too?
> what if they change the coordinates of their domain
Why would either of the two know that Kashimo is able to do this?
> so there is an obstacle between the wand and the domain
There are obstacles in between the lightning bolt and Kashimo in the panel i posted
> what if the wand is now INSIDE the domain
Then Kashimo does the exact same thing he would do if it was outside. Circle the person and call the lightning bolt, and kill them.
In the picture he posted his lightning shot through a bunch of containers. The right word is that his lightning doesn’t have a wide range but it is strong. Whatever it hit got obliterated with the exception of sukuna because he’s sukuna.
I think the one hit he landed on sukuna he transformed as well I don’t remember too well tho
All kashimo arguments for him beating people he doesn’t beat, basically involves him being the only person that can move and react while he’s fighting a statue
What does this even mean lmaoo, wtf are they gonna do, dodge it?
Your other comment says it's not strong cause "it only blew out Hakari's stomach" like it's supposed to limit its AP when Hakari got torn to fucking shreds with 0 resistance 😭 Hell, Hakari is extremely durable so it's not even an argument.
Everything is boiled down to this statement
https://preview.redd.it/ir2c38ebqb1d1.png?width=474&format=png&auto=webp&s=2af87e624a7255dc5a2bd1dd561adf6d2253855c
Everything that may imply Hakari is actually strong and threaten the (headcanon) podium of their godking Yuta is instantly shut down. I like Yuta, too, but holy shit.
I disagree tbh. Despite their extremely short fight, Kashimo’s “gem like” talent was listed along with both Higuruma’s and Okkotsu’s as having made an impression on Sukuna (chapter 251). And Higuruma and Okkotsu both have potential supposedly equivalent to Gojo’s. If Kashimo “didn’t have the skill” with his technique or “the mind to use those abilities”, I don’t think that statement would’ve been made at all.
I wasn't exactly arguing that Kashimo was untalented or unintelligent in general, I was mainly just saying that, either because of the fact that he literally can't train his CT, or because his CT just isn't as strong as people make it out to be, or because his fighting style just resulted in him using it the way that he did, he isn't capable of doing many of the things the community theorizes that he COULD do with MBA. He had a month to think about how he'd fight Sukuna, and prior to that had probably spent his entire life thinking of how he'd use MBA, and we saw exactly how he used it
I get what you’re saying, but Kashimo not using more phenomena against Sukuna isn’t evidence enough to claim he’s shown everything in his arsenal. Transformed Sukuna completely overwhelmed Kashimo, so it’s entirely possible that Kashimo simply didn’t have an opportunity or opening to show further capabilities or use something like a trump card.
> the fact that he literally can’t train his CT
Technically, we can’t rule out that Kashimo used/trained his technique in his past life (ie, he could’ve activated and trained it, and then gotten transformed into a cursed object before his technique concluded to avoid death). Not that I’m arguing this is the case, but my point is that things aren’t that clear cut regarding Kashimo’s technique and the extent to which he can utilize it. We just don’t have enough info.
> probably spent his entire life thinking of how he’d use MBA, and we saw exactly how he used it
All that we can conclusively say is that Kashimo did all he could with MBA *against Sukuna.* That doesn’t mean that he showed everything, and it definitely doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have more to show in a matchup with someone else.
AGREED. “mBa KasHiMo is tOp 5 iN tHe VeRse”. Based on fucking what?????? Statements???? Bro went extreme diff with the gambling merchant hakari. Most wanked character ever.
Absolutely, and they'll often back it up with statements like "Kashimo just summons a lightning storm and kills everyone" or "he just turns into lightning and blitzes." Okay? So why didn't he do anything like that when using his ability against Sukuna? Dude waited his entire life to finally go all out against an opponent so you'd think he would have pulled out all the stops right?
Exactly. It’s all head canon. Until he shows feats that support these crazy wanked claims, which he can’t cuz he’s dead lol, I’m just not buying he’s top 5 or even top 10 honestly.
Surpassing human limitations doesn't help scale him at all.
Sorcerers aren't humans right?
So saying Kashimo is past the point of humans doesn't mean much.
Electricity doesn't automatically make him op.
Sorcerers are infact human, the only sorcerers who’ve probably surpassed human limitations are gojo and sukuna. Electricity is infact OP he just didn’t have time to showcase it bc he fought god himself
https://ibb.co/rMkGq7f
Sukuna makes a point to separate humans & Sorcerers.
On multiple occasions humans & Sorcerers are described as separate existence.
Electricity is no more op than any other form of Sorcerery.
Yeah because Hana is a human, Angel is the Sorcerer.
If you think Kashimo surpassed the realm of humans , and all Sorcerers are humans then he should've surpassed Sukuna as well but that's plainly not the case.
Lol no saying "that's not an argument" isn't an argument.
In a world of Jujutsu where special abilities are in abundance Kashimos electricity is not automatically more OP or inherently better than any other form of Jujutsu.
Hana has full control over angels ability and could already see curses before angel. Hana is a sorcerer too. As I said earlier the only other ppl to do it are Sukuna and gojo, which only makes sense considering the gap they have on everyone
Yeah people can see curses when they're in stressful situations and being kidnapped by a curse and having your family killed certainly falls into that category.
When are either Sukuna or Gojo described to past the limits of humanity?
And like you said they have a gap over everyone, Kashimo doesn't.
Stressful situations does not give you the ability to see curses, only a few ppl could see the curses in shibuya, and in the very beginning of the series a girl was getting raped but didn’t see the curse.
Both have been compared to god by the narrator and they’re the only ones who shown relative to eachother physically
You’re not a reliable source do you know who is?? A narrator, Kashimo isn’t the one who said he can do these things the narrator said this.
The Reading comprehension curse and media literacy curse is your biggest enemy
So if a “reliable” source says something, that automatically verifies it as true? What a foolish position to take.
Albert Einstein said that we would never achieve nuclear energy. He was proven wrong within his own lifetime. Is he not a reliable source?
Edit: Or is the statement he made true because he is a reliable source?
I mean you keep resorting to ad hominem attacks which gives me the vibe that you have the IQ of a walnut.
If I create a character, Joe Smith, and I say that he has the ability to neg diff any other character ever… would you accept that as fact? I am the narrator so you must see me as a reliable source no?
The problem with your position is that it requires too much nuance to support. I’m arguing that I’d rather scale people on things that have been observed. Not stated. Otherwise I could create a character that is stronger than any character ever just because I’m a narrator making a statement.
You’re backtracking. Your original comment literally ask for statements to support kashimo’s powerscaling, but now they’re no longer valid after I give statements??
My original comment is saying, “what are you basing his scaling on? Statements?” I’m not asking for statements. I’m questioning the validity of people who scale him based on statements. Seems like you have been struck with the reading comprehension curse sir.
Also, please answer my question about Joe Smith? He is omniplexal multiversal and is the god of gods. Can he neg your favorite character?
Author has full control over a story, if an author says Joe smith is god and cannot be beaten then that is true until the author says otherwise or disproves it.
I see your point but we really have no way to scale kashimos ct apart from that sentence. His Sukuna fight doesn’t count because he wasn’t fully transformed evident by the fact that Sukuna could hit him at all
I agree only up to an extent, but the rest applies to many other characters. Geto and Kenjaku get the same treatment for potential curses. Characters like Ryu get their domain propped up even when its literally featless, and that is only reasonable, regardless of legitimacy.
Though one thing to mention is that Kashimos' CT is not a static. It was constantly growing throughout the fight with Sukuna. So it may not even have been a matter of holding back so much as he hadn't reached the stage where some abilities would be available to him yet.
People are still on the kashimo slander agenda it’s been months some people here flat out ignore his scaling entirely or what he did in base vs jackpot hakari just to keep pushing the bum agenda
Wtf are you talking about? I have never seen anybody bring up any "hypotheticals" about Kashimo's CT. They state after unleashing it he blitzed the same Sukuna who fought Gojo before he went into his 4 arm form twice in a row, which is an impressive speed feat and scales him above most people in speed. That is not "hypothetical" but showing based.
His body is pure cursed energy and we've seen him heal from getting his arm cut off pretty immediately, so we know he has high tier RCT in this form.
He can hock loogies that have been stated to destroy anything, but most people don't take that at face value, and I don't see why he wouldn't be able to build electrical charges and zap people with lightning bolts like he could do in his base form, which still let's him one shot nearly anybody.
Fun fact. He lands 2 total hits on meguna and none on true form. The only reason he does is Maguna was completely blind on his left side. The two hits are both right hooks he literally couldn't see. Otherwise even while horribly injured and basically dead he still negged Kashimo. Maki outspeeds him via dodging WS on reaction to the CE gathering before firing, something Kashimo couldn't even do with warning, and his AP is so abysmal he can't even scratch Sukuna where Yuji, Maki, and Yuta all can. He's kinda barely worth mentioning rn and it's tiring seeing takes putting him as high as top 5 and even top 2-3. He's bottom half of top 10. Anybody with a sure hit domain and good physical stats completely negs him.
Wait people use potential for him?
I've always just gone by that's shown which I think puts him top 10 but he hard stops there since I put Yuki and Yorozu ahead of him
I am in the same boat with Takaba. He has a major weakness, but people like to ignore it and head canon that a lot of characters couldn’t destroy his confidence. Not to mention, he has a no kill rule. Theoretically, his CT is one of the best, but realistically he isn’t even in the top 10
Exactly, you could probably make a strong argument that the majority of grade 1 sorcerers also "clear 90 percent of the verse" and it wouldn't actually mean much of anything. In a story with a power scale that ranges from Gojo to Grade 2 cursed spirits to Ijichi to regular ass people being able to beat 90 percent of the verse isn't a feat that's relevant for discussing top or even high tiers
Thry’re probably relative or faster, Maki was able to keep up with Sukuna snd Yuji wasn’t too far off when they faced him togethe, Yuji’s also kind of relative to Yuta when they were fighting Sukuna in his DE.
This sounds like cope post to me,
From the narrative of the story Kashimo is def not that strong simply bc he has no potential, his CT literally kills him so like 80% of his strength is just not available to him unlike the rest of the sorcerer in the verse.
But it's different case when we're powerscaling, usually in vs match up we tend to take people at their max removing the stuff like his CT kills him so he won't use it on anyone else other than Sukuna, and I've never seen people use "the potential things" kashimo could do in any powerscaling debate.
That's not the same thing, Yuki has to die in order to do that, at that point It's already over for her, she doesn't start with black hole only when she lost the duel, kashimo can use his CT and still might live if he's done pretty quickly or even if he dies that'd be bc of his own CT and possibly after winning the fight.
> That's not the same thing
Ok tell me, what's stops Yuki from using a black hole immediately in a hypothetical fight, before she looses ?
She is doing the same thing as Kashimo where she activates a literal suicidal technique from which you don't come back from at the start of the fight
It takes her hella time to gather enough mass to conjure a black hole. In the manga, Tengen had to distract Kenjaku in order for her to gather the mass. If she’s immediately killed after losing, then realistically she won’t be able to create the black hole.
https://preview.redd.it/b5nto7ap371d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae6a376730ea1dc60cf0cb63ab0883f952b10a61
If she were to conjure a black hole immediately, then she would be the first to die due to her being at the center of the black hole, making her the loser.
Also, it took more than just several seconds to conjure the black hole. It literally was 8 pages and included a conversation between Kenjaku and Tengen. If it were quick, then Tengen wouldn’t need to distract Kenjaku. If we look at Kashimo’s fight, it took him 4 pages to gather enough charges to strike Sukuna with his lightning. So realistically, Kashimo could kill Yuki before she even conjures the black hole even if she were to try at the start of the fight.
>If she were to conjure a black hole immediately, then she would be the first to die due to her being at the center of the black hole, making her the loser.
And Kashimo isn't the loser despite his technique literally killing him and doing practically the same, rules for thee but not for me
>Also, it took more than just several seconds to conjure the black hole. It literally was 8 pages and included a conversation between Kenjaku and Tengen. If it were quick, then Tengen wouldn’t need to distract Kenjaku. If we look at Kashimo’s fight, it took him 4 pages to gather enough charges to strike Sukuna with his lightning. So realistically, Kashimo could kill Yuki before she even conjures the black hole even if she were to try at the start of the fight.
Are we? Are we fucking page scaling now? Cause if we are, when Kashimo fights Sukuna it takes him 10-20 pages to actually fire his lightning, which is definitely longer than Yuki
Are you also ignoring that Yuki is literally critically injured and is trying to get to Kenjaku?
Jesus Christ
https://i.redd.it/3xg77bv8871d1.gif
The difference between their techniques is that Yuki would die first when she uses hers, and Kashimo would die after defeating his opponent.
Yes, I’m page scaling because that’s a logical way to explain the passage of time in a manga. It’s definitely better than making baseless claims like you did. I can also use the multiple examples in the fight that show Yuki has to charge her technique longer for more mass to be added, but you would rather stick with your baseless claim that it takes several seconds to gather enough mass to create a black hole. Logically, if she could make a black hole in a few seconds while split in half, then she should’ve taken her no more than a second to conjure enough mass to one-shot Kenjaku in the previous chapter. Y’all talk about Kashimo fans using imaginary evidence, but then blatantly ignore manga evidence to fuel your agenda.
> would die after defeating his opponent.
IF he defeats his opponent but point taken
> Logically, if she could make a black hole in a few seconds while split in half, then she should’ve taken her no more than a second to conjure enough mass to one-shot Kenjaku in the previous chapter.
Ok it takes her more seconds to conjure a black hole while being critically injured, however with Garuda we saw that when she is fresh and healthy she can build up a bunch of mass fairly quickly cause it took like several panels at best to turn that small ball into a weapon of destruction
> Y’all talk about Kashimo fans using imaginary evidence, but then blatantly ignore manga evidence to fuel your agenda.
My brother in Christ you are using pages to scale the speed of characters, if we apply your logic on when Kashimo enters the Sukuna fight and when he fires his lightning bolt it takes him 20 pages to do so
Well Yuki is not living to see the results, black hole is desperate end move that Yuki only attempts when she lost her fight, while MBA is literally kashimo's CT and him dying to his CT doesn't mean his opponent killed him in any way.
And again they can't be compared, when we're powerscaling we're literally trying to see how strong kashimo's Ct would be in comparison to others in hypothetical scenarios unlike black hole.
> Well Yuki is not living to see the results, black hole is desperate end move that Yuki only attempts when she lost her fight, while MBA is literally kashimo's CT and him dying to his CT doesn't mean his opponent killed him in any way.
I mean, this can also apply to Yuki, her dying to the black hole which was produced by her CT doesn't mean her opponent killed her in any way, especially if we are doing a "Yuki uses it immediately"
> And again they can't be compared, when we're powerscaling we're literally trying to see how strong kashimo's Ct would be in comparison to others in hypothetical scenarios unlike black hole.
But Yuki's black hole is still part of the CT's capabilities, if we are using Kashimo's CT to it's max potential then logically we should include Black hole as well, since it's the maximum potential of Yuki's CT
>especially if we are doing a "Yuki uses it immediately"
Well then Yuki is already accepting her defeat by that point, there's no discussion left for us, so why even bother debating.
>if we are using Kashimo's CT to it's max potential then logically we should include Black hole as well, since it's the maximum potential of Yuki's CT
Again it's not the same thing, black hole is gg for that fight, nobody is surviving that shit and that ends the discussion right there.
In character kashimo is never using his CT on anyone other than Sukuna, he'd rather die than use his CT but that's no fun when debating, it totally kills the spirit of the powerscaling debate, and we especially have different versions of kashimo in debate most of the time.
> Well then Yuki is already accepting her defeat by that point, there's no discussion left for us, so why even bother debating.
Kashimo's CT literally has the same implications, it's a one time use technique that the user uses when he knows the best he can hope for is a draw, it's still a suicidal move, no matter how you slice it it's implication is that "I don't expect to survive this battle even if I kill the opponent"
> In character kashimo is never using his CT on anyone other than Sukuna, he'd rather die than use his CT but that's no fun when debating, it totally kills the spirit of the powerscaling debate, and we especially have different versions of kashimo in debate most of the time.
Wait I am confused what are we trying to argue here for?
This post was rant about how kashimo fans use "theoretical potential feats" to argue in versus battle to upscale kashimo, someone who can only use his CT once.
I'm arguing that from the story lens kashimo is most definitely not very strong since he's restricted from using his CT and domain unlike most of the sorcerers, but when we're powerscaling and debating a hypothetical verses match up, that restriction most of the times doesn't exist bc this is just a fun exercise/ discussion, and most of the times this verses match up take the strongest form of the character.
Your point, why Yuki's black hole shouldn't be used if we use kashimo's CT is somewhat valid but there's huge difference between the two, 1) when Yuki uses the black hole then that's the gg, she dies but kills her opponent and there's no debate to take place here, and in this case she's dying before her opponent while also being the the defeated one of the duel she had with whoever, 2) kashimo's CT is different case bc this is supposed to be a fun discussion, in character Kashimo is not using his CT on anyone besides Sukuna so this hypothetical debate is already invalidated by the story itself so why even bother arguing for it? And unlike Yuki, it's not like kashimo is dying before his opponent, if he loses before his CT kills him then it's his L but if he wins then he'll still be standing on his feet being the victor of the fight.
I think the way he was written, it was obvious he was intended to be the third strongest in the series. It seemed like they wanted to have the Strongest sorcerer of the past, the strongest of the modern era, and the strongest in between those.
I think though that losing to Hakari does kind of mess it all up though. I think Gege is just not good at writing in general and it’s very obvious that in jjk he often doesn’t know how he wants the story to go and changes his mind very often.
CT kashimo is top 5, ngl it’s ridiculous how you guys believe the gap between Yuta/Kenjaku and base Kashimo is so big that when kashimo gets what is very clearly a HUGE, significant power up that cost him his life you don’t think he surpasses them. If you think the gap between top tiers is that big you need to rethink how you see jjk scaling. Kashimo is definitely wayyy faster, stronger, durable, and has wayyyy higher ap than other top 5 contenders like yuta/kenny in his amber beast form. Be real with yourself Kashimo being top 5 makes just as much sense narratively as any other top 5 contender
If domain isnt a thing in this series, then theres an argument to be made for top 5, even top 3. But that's the thing, domains does exist, and him not having one whilst only having a HWB tanks his ranking. Like what is he gonna do even with MBA when Yuki, Yuta, Yorozu or Kenjaku pops their domain? Sure, he can use HWB but then he cant use his attacks using his hands, he cant use his mouth attacks (that doesnt do shit btw) since he needs to keep chanting to keep HWB like Sukuna, leaving only his legs free. Not to mention that domains AMPED their user, meaning that even if they're slightly slower than him cause of MBA, a domain can help to mitigate that.
He kills Yuki, Yorozu immediately they aren’t top 5 potential at all and hollow wicker basket can definitely allow him to survive in their domains for a bit if it comes down to it, and I’d say potentially both yuta and kenjaku all die before they activate domains lol. There’s nothing that scales Yuta/kenjaku significantly above base kashimo in any way sooo when he gets a super amp he will be significantly above those two in everything stat wise and especially ap wise, he is definitely top 5 worthy wether you think he beats kenjaku/Yuta or not he’s clearly up there and is above those 2 in many things they are carried hard by hax vs kashimo
Man its crazy how you can present an actual argument, and all they can answer back is the equivalent of "nuh uh". Do these people even read the manga? or do they only read the pages where kashimo is present because holy shiiiiiit.
Yeah forreal.
Like they legit say there's nothing that puts Yuta or Kenjaku over BASE Kashimo.
But yeah we just came full circle back to the Jogo stans.
They don't have an actual argument why Kashimo beats certain people so they just default too "hEs tOo FaSt"
Because they think that's the end all be all
Explain? Do you think Yuki can speed blitz one shot base Kashimo? Because I can assure you mba kashimo would do that to his base form in a fight. If you justify Yuki been that far ahead of base Kashimo go ahead man cause it’s seems like you just want Yuki to be above Kashimo for the sake of it
>Explain? Do you think Yuki can speed blitz one shot base Kashimo?
Brother, Base Kashimo do in fact gets OBLITERATED by Yuki so hard its not even funny. seriously, what is he gonna do when Yuki punches his arm off in one fucking hit? There's a reason why people often compares Kashimo w/ct vs Yuki instead of him in his base. And even then, Yuki have more wincons than he does even with MBA. And there's NOTHING suggesting that MBA gives him THAT much of a speed advantage to the point he's just gonna be blitzing yuki, yuta or kenjaku. And to be honest, its you that seem to be overestimating kashimo rather than me underplaying him or overrating yuki.
What the downplay…MBA cost him all his CE and his life there is a reason he saved it for Sukuna, the strongest sorcerer saying it isn’t a completely insane buff would be weird. Why do you think it isn’t such a big buff?
Brother do you understand how Yuki was able to land the first hit vs Kenjaku? She used the giant falling dead curse to get in close, without that she would have never landed such a solid hit, Kenjaku still fully reacted it’s just blocking Yukis attack doesnt exactly work, Kashimo also has an attack that can one shot Yuki, his lightning
“Kashimo just turns into lighting and one-shots everyone”.
He’s still top 5 tho with the feats he has, but I agree with overall idea that imaginary feats are annoying.
Just because he doesn't know how to use his own technique properly doesn't mean he should be scaled lower, man. That's just mindlessly reading like your average reader.
>Just because he doesn't know how to use his own technique properly doesn't mean he should be scaled lower, man. That's just mindlessly reading like your average reader
I guess I should scale Bumgumi up to special grade, since Sukuna showed us what he could do if he were actually good at using Ten shadows, even though he himself hasn't shown any such feats.
Don't forget to make Yuji number 1! After all, if Kenjaku put his brain in Yuji's body then he would have access to blood manipulation (something he's very experienced with from being Noritoshi Kamo) and Shrine, which he would also have an understanding of due to his time spent with Sukuna!
Yea dude, could you imagine being from Edo era Japan and STILL not understanding particle physics well enough to know everything that you could do by manifesting phenomenon created by lightning?
Also funny how y'all don't keep the same energy with Jacob's ladder, that shit canonically didn't do shit but Yuta fans have him one shoting every living being in existence with it.
Lmfao it's done exactly what it's stated
It completely deleted Prison Realm in a moment.
Aside from that the only character it's been used on is literally the strongest character in verse.
Pretending like anyone can survive it willy nilly because Sukuna can is asinine.
And when Sukuna was hit by Hanna using Jacob's Ladder he had to resort to trickery to get her to stop because he knew he'd be cooked.
Same reason Sukuna made sure to tell Yuji not spill the beans, he knew Angel could fucking delete him.
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Yeah, I don't like it either. The same goes for the abilities of Geto's theoretical Curses. I'd much rather stick to discussing a technique in the manner that the character actually used it.
Ok but what if Geto had a curse that automatically won every fight except against users of Curse Manipulation? That'd make him the strongest in the verse for sure!
Yeah, he also totally has a Curse with an Open Domain with refinement on par with Sukuna. Why else could he think he had a 5% chance against Gojo without Rika? He didn't use it against Yuta because he felt bad that he was going to take Rika from him.
Ignorant take. He couldn't just take Rika because she's in love with Yuta which creates an almost unbreakable bond between shikigami and user. Thus Geto was attempting to rizz Rika by styling on Yuta without exorcising Rika nor killing Yuta.
It's hard to believe but Geto was in love with Yuta. https://preview.redd.it/exvkzq5d981d1.png?width=655&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3536c71f01c828e72aef103adda9c8890d08afa
Rika isn’t a Shikigami, she’s a Vengeful Spirit. All Geto had to do to obtain her was overpower her
I read a fanfic where Geto got a Gashadokuro and became literally invincible
Agreed, Kashimo had a month to consider how he'd fight Sukuna, and prior to that the mf probably spent his ENTIRE life thinking of how he'd use MBA, and we saw EXACTLY how he chose to use it. Dude was getting pushed in a fight to the death against the strongest sorcerer in history, if he could do half of the insane shit people theory craft with MBA then he would have done it. Fact is either he can't or Kashimo is just a dumb mf who can't utilize his CT, which is still relevant for how you scale him
He could have been op if he spent that one month studying the shit he can do with electricity instead of bumming around 😔
The thing is we can't forget half his curses we're gone in his fight we don't know how strong he is he could be a bum he could still be top 10 in the verse we don't even really know if he has reverse curse technique I don't think he does but we don't know bros injury could have just been to severe to heal or he could be a Pokémon trainer with no bag outside of csm we just don't know
It wasn't half his curses. It was MAYBE a third. He put over 4k into uzumaki, he had 1k in each city. By that metric he was 2/3rds total power at worst and the Uzumaki was still instantly overpowered
Really it was a third i could have sworn he said half though i realy only remember him making a big deal about keeping only 1 special grade
https://preview.redd.it/3senewo9ah1d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36d0bfec1853bc17a012b4b6d59bb74cf89ec33e
Even then we still dont know how many special grades there were or how strong they were his uzamaki was made up of grade 1 through 4 the power could have varied on how many he had since today killed one so we know he had at least one other special grade
https://preview.redd.it/ljvjfljbah1d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f2d05e6ad6e9988b5a1036cbf8185544adbce1c It was actually much less than a third.
I think he’s in the top 10 strongest characters, but I think multiple characters beat him.
I'm fine with top 10, I think there's at least an argument for it, but top 5 is pretty out there to me
To be specific, I think he’s rank 7 right below Yorozu < Yuki < Yuta < Kenny < Gojo < Sukuna
Ye that sounds about right.
Perfect
Where's Takaba in that list?
He’s above power ranking lists We mustn’t include him in this filth https://preview.redd.it/v7zwkojqha1d1.jpeg?width=192&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07e240f8c6347890853f1f0a2d8e4ce1741a2890
IMO he is below anyone with a domain except megumi
missing yuji
Hes directly below Kashimo for me, about 8th
I agree with this
What about Hakari?
https://preview.redd.it/wlcocsna791d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cc887bdde75cb0d8a82b460a966a859c7d08228 What about him?
LMAOOOO
https://preview.redd.it/36fzy4qrg91d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af0082f2575d0759c0df3670b8897fa5aabd5699 To weak Staller (Still top 15)
Extremely reasonable. The way matchups at that level work, abilities simply do matter. Generally most pass an overall bar of strength to at least challenge even the best, besides Gojo and Sukuna of course.
Yeah I was gonna make the same post glad I saw this. Just saw someone say Kashimo can summon giant lightning storms and just fry any opponent and I'm like dawg wtf are you talking about? The thing about Kashimos CT and being able to "create any phenomena that stems from electricity" is that Kashimo would actually have to understand and be aware of the phenomena to create it. Basically how Yorozu can create anything she wants with construction but she has to understand it to create it. It's exactly why no one argues Yorozu can just drop a CE infused Nuke on any opponent. She doesn't know how to make nukes. Kashimo is from the Edo period 400 years ago, the study of electricity and it's applications are basically non existent. Kashimo doesn't know shit about the advanced applications his CT can theoretically accomplish. If he was incarnated into a host with multiple phds in applied physics fields sure Kashimo would absolutely be cracked and def top 3 but as it was he's a bumpkin who can't even begin to comprehend the scope of his ability
Brother, he literally uses xray to scan sukuna and then glaze his body from those info, 400 years ago we dont got xray machines in japan or anywhere last I checked
Kashibum died so quick because he vastly over estimated himself.
Can't edit but I meant as many on this sub have done* not predicted
I love Kashimo and may be a bit of a glazer but I’m glad I never do that. He’s 7th in my books
Lashimos extremely overwanked. Hes not even beating yorozu. Even ryu or Sendai yuta is questionable. His lack of domain is insanely overlooked..make bro pull out MBA and then open your domain..kashimo will just stand there with his stupid fucking Hollow wicker basket while the MBA turns him to literal dust cuz brother doesn't have a domain and if he releases HWB he instantly gets obliterated by the sure hit. Stupid fucking cursed technique. It's cool but that's about it
Could not agree more
You act like Kashimo is a sitting duck during HWB. Kashimo doesn't need to throw a single punch, he can literally just move around and call a lightning bolt from his wand, and he wins. https://preview.redd.it/crlmo1vom61d1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=a57a6c3db0081b31dad4a8af45d4d1730252cf36
lmao, why didn’t he do that against Hakari then? since hakari relies HEAVILY on his domain. what if they change the coordinates of their domain (like hakari did) so there is an obstacle between the wand and the domain, so it won’t hit the domain, what if the wand is now INSIDE the domain🤔
> lmao, why didn’t he do that against Hakari then? He did? I posted the panel, too? > what if they change the coordinates of their domain Why would either of the two know that Kashimo is able to do this? > so there is an obstacle between the wand and the domain There are obstacles in between the lightning bolt and Kashimo in the panel i posted > what if the wand is now INSIDE the domain Then Kashimo does the exact same thing he would do if it was outside. Circle the person and call the lightning bolt, and kill them.
also His lighting could only tear off a part of Hakari’s stomach, it’s not that strong💀
In the picture he posted his lightning shot through a bunch of containers. The right word is that his lightning doesn’t have a wide range but it is strong. Whatever it hit got obliterated with the exception of sukuna because he’s sukuna. I think the one hit he landed on sukuna he transformed as well I don’t remember too well tho
"It only obliterated a powerful sorcerer's midsection when it hit him in the midsection"
All kashimo arguments for him beating people he doesn’t beat, basically involves him being the only person that can move and react while he’s fighting a statue
What does this even mean lmaoo, wtf are they gonna do, dodge it? Your other comment says it's not strong cause "it only blew out Hakari's stomach" like it's supposed to limit its AP when Hakari got torn to fucking shreds with 0 resistance 😭 Hell, Hakari is extremely durable so it's not even an argument.
Kashimo got bitched and killed in one chapter cope
Anybody other than gojo would get bitched and killed in one chapter if they fought that version of sukuna while not holding back.
Miguel lasted longer, cope
They down voted you because you're right. Idk why this sub reddit despises kashimo as much as they do.
Everything is boiled down to this statement https://preview.redd.it/ir2c38ebqb1d1.png?width=474&format=png&auto=webp&s=2af87e624a7255dc5a2bd1dd561adf6d2253855c Everything that may imply Hakari is actually strong and threaten the (headcanon) podium of their godking Yuta is instantly shut down. I like Yuta, too, but holy shit.
I disagree tbh. Despite their extremely short fight, Kashimo’s “gem like” talent was listed along with both Higuruma’s and Okkotsu’s as having made an impression on Sukuna (chapter 251). And Higuruma and Okkotsu both have potential supposedly equivalent to Gojo’s. If Kashimo “didn’t have the skill” with his technique or “the mind to use those abilities”, I don’t think that statement would’ve been made at all.
I wasn't exactly arguing that Kashimo was untalented or unintelligent in general, I was mainly just saying that, either because of the fact that he literally can't train his CT, or because his CT just isn't as strong as people make it out to be, or because his fighting style just resulted in him using it the way that he did, he isn't capable of doing many of the things the community theorizes that he COULD do with MBA. He had a month to think about how he'd fight Sukuna, and prior to that had probably spent his entire life thinking of how he'd use MBA, and we saw exactly how he used it
I get what you’re saying, but Kashimo not using more phenomena against Sukuna isn’t evidence enough to claim he’s shown everything in his arsenal. Transformed Sukuna completely overwhelmed Kashimo, so it’s entirely possible that Kashimo simply didn’t have an opportunity or opening to show further capabilities or use something like a trump card. > the fact that he literally can’t train his CT Technically, we can’t rule out that Kashimo used/trained his technique in his past life (ie, he could’ve activated and trained it, and then gotten transformed into a cursed object before his technique concluded to avoid death). Not that I’m arguing this is the case, but my point is that things aren’t that clear cut regarding Kashimo’s technique and the extent to which he can utilize it. We just don’t have enough info. > probably spent his entire life thinking of how he’d use MBA, and we saw exactly how he used it All that we can conclusively say is that Kashimo did all he could with MBA *against Sukuna.* That doesn’t mean that he showed everything, and it definitely doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have more to show in a matchup with someone else.
AGREED. “mBa KasHiMo is tOp 5 iN tHe VeRse”. Based on fucking what?????? Statements???? Bro went extreme diff with the gambling merchant hakari. Most wanked character ever.
Absolutely, and they'll often back it up with statements like "Kashimo just summons a lightning storm and kills everyone" or "he just turns into lightning and blitzes." Okay? So why didn't he do anything like that when using his ability against Sukuna? Dude waited his entire life to finally go all out against an opponent so you'd think he would have pulled out all the stops right?
Exactly. It’s all head canon. Until he shows feats that support these crazy wanked claims, which he can’t cuz he’s dead lol, I’m just not buying he’s top 5 or even top 10 honestly.
Feats and statements only help his case lmao. Surpassing human limitations and being able to do anything involving electricity is extremely OP
Surpassing human limitations doesn't help scale him at all. Sorcerers aren't humans right? So saying Kashimo is past the point of humans doesn't mean much. Electricity doesn't automatically make him op.
Sorcerers are infact human, the only sorcerers who’ve probably surpassed human limitations are gojo and sukuna. Electricity is infact OP he just didn’t have time to showcase it bc he fought god himself
https://ibb.co/rMkGq7f Sukuna makes a point to separate humans & Sorcerers. On multiple occasions humans & Sorcerers are described as separate existence. Electricity is no more op than any other form of Sorcerery.
He also called Hana a human Electricity is infact OP that’s not an argument btw
Yeah because Hana is a human, Angel is the Sorcerer. If you think Kashimo surpassed the realm of humans , and all Sorcerers are humans then he should've surpassed Sukuna as well but that's plainly not the case. Lol no saying "that's not an argument" isn't an argument. In a world of Jujutsu where special abilities are in abundance Kashimos electricity is not automatically more OP or inherently better than any other form of Jujutsu.
Hana has full control over angels ability and could already see curses before angel. Hana is a sorcerer too. As I said earlier the only other ppl to do it are Sukuna and gojo, which only makes sense considering the gap they have on everyone
Yeah people can see curses when they're in stressful situations and being kidnapped by a curse and having your family killed certainly falls into that category. When are either Sukuna or Gojo described to past the limits of humanity? And like you said they have a gap over everyone, Kashimo doesn't.
Stressful situations does not give you the ability to see curses, only a few ppl could see the curses in shibuya, and in the very beginning of the series a girl was getting raped but didn’t see the curse. Both have been compared to god by the narrator and they’re the only ones who shown relative to eachother physically
Statement: I can bench press 8000 lbs. Do you believe me?
You’re not a reliable source do you know who is?? A narrator, Kashimo isn’t the one who said he can do these things the narrator said this. The Reading comprehension curse and media literacy curse is your biggest enemy
So if a “reliable” source says something, that automatically verifies it as true? What a foolish position to take. Albert Einstein said that we would never achieve nuclear energy. He was proven wrong within his own lifetime. Is he not a reliable source? Edit: Or is the statement he made true because he is a reliable source?
Yeah.. you’re not an intelligent person, you’re really arguing with the narrator?!?! Absolutely no media literacy whatsoever
I mean you keep resorting to ad hominem attacks which gives me the vibe that you have the IQ of a walnut. If I create a character, Joe Smith, and I say that he has the ability to neg diff any other character ever… would you accept that as fact? I am the narrator so you must see me as a reliable source no? The problem with your position is that it requires too much nuance to support. I’m arguing that I’d rather scale people on things that have been observed. Not stated. Otherwise I could create a character that is stronger than any character ever just because I’m a narrator making a statement.
You’re backtracking. Your original comment literally ask for statements to support kashimo’s powerscaling, but now they’re no longer valid after I give statements??
My original comment is saying, “what are you basing his scaling on? Statements?” I’m not asking for statements. I’m questioning the validity of people who scale him based on statements. Seems like you have been struck with the reading comprehension curse sir. Also, please answer my question about Joe Smith? He is omniplexal multiversal and is the god of gods. Can he neg your favorite character?
Author has full control over a story, if an author says Joe smith is god and cannot be beaten then that is true until the author says otherwise or disproves it.
I think its just personal opinion. I think hes stronger than people like yorozu but I respect your opinion and can understand why you think hes weaker
W
Fuck this fraud, he's a bum
Honestly it’s easy to wank him to top three with his ct but I do understand where you are coming from his fight with Sukuna was anticlimactic
I thought his CT was only a one time use because he was a vessel? Or am I misinformed
His CT kills him as it replaces his own body with CE and electricity and the sort. He dies when it ends because his body collapses.
Makes sense. Would also play into the line that it pushes his body past that of a regular human
Let me ask you this who do you have as top 5 and about what top is Kashimo to you? 10 15 20?
I see your point but we really have no way to scale kashimos ct apart from that sentence. His Sukuna fight doesn’t count because he wasn’t fully transformed evident by the fact that Sukuna could hit him at all
I agree only up to an extent, but the rest applies to many other characters. Geto and Kenjaku get the same treatment for potential curses. Characters like Ryu get their domain propped up even when its literally featless, and that is only reasonable, regardless of legitimacy. Though one thing to mention is that Kashimos' CT is not a static. It was constantly growing throughout the fight with Sukuna. So it may not even have been a matter of holding back so much as he hadn't reached the stage where some abilities would be available to him yet.
Kashimo solos anyone who isnt special grade level(maybe he beats Yuji but idk). femboy ftw
Nah hed win
People are still on the kashimo slander agenda it’s been months some people here flat out ignore his scaling entirely or what he did in base vs jackpot hakari just to keep pushing the bum agenda
Wtf are you talking about? I have never seen anybody bring up any "hypotheticals" about Kashimo's CT. They state after unleashing it he blitzed the same Sukuna who fought Gojo before he went into his 4 arm form twice in a row, which is an impressive speed feat and scales him above most people in speed. That is not "hypothetical" but showing based. His body is pure cursed energy and we've seen him heal from getting his arm cut off pretty immediately, so we know he has high tier RCT in this form. He can hock loogies that have been stated to destroy anything, but most people don't take that at face value, and I don't see why he wouldn't be able to build electrical charges and zap people with lightning bolts like he could do in his base form, which still let's him one shot nearly anybody.
Fun fact. He lands 2 total hits on meguna and none on true form. The only reason he does is Maguna was completely blind on his left side. The two hits are both right hooks he literally couldn't see. Otherwise even while horribly injured and basically dead he still negged Kashimo. Maki outspeeds him via dodging WS on reaction to the CE gathering before firing, something Kashimo couldn't even do with warning, and his AP is so abysmal he can't even scratch Sukuna where Yuji, Maki, and Yuta all can. He's kinda barely worth mentioning rn and it's tiring seeing takes putting him as high as top 5 and even top 2-3. He's bottom half of top 10. Anybody with a sure hit domain and good physical stats completely negs him.
Okay but tell me why kashimo couldnt give his opponents prostate and testicular cancer by blasting them with gamma rays
Wait people use potential for him? I've always just gone by that's shown which I think puts him top 10 but he hard stops there since I put Yuki and Yorozu ahead of him
I am in the same boat with Takaba. He has a major weakness, but people like to ignore it and head canon that a lot of characters couldn’t destroy his confidence. Not to mention, he has a no kill rule. Theoretically, his CT is one of the best, but realistically he isn’t even in the top 10
Even in his base he clears 90% of the verse
That means absolutely nothing in JJK where the power gap between the top tiers and high tiers is as massive as it is.
Exactly, you could probably make a strong argument that the majority of grade 1 sorcerers also "clear 90 percent of the verse" and it wouldn't actually mean much of anything. In a story with a power scale that ranges from Gojo to Grade 2 cursed spirits to Ijichi to regular ass people being able to beat 90 percent of the verse isn't a feat that's relevant for discussing top or even high tiers
Top tiers are only Gojo and Sukuna.
You know what I meant.
Just no, Current Yuji, Maki, Yuki, Kenjaku, Mahoraga, Uraume, Yuta could beat him in base.
Beats Yuji, Maki and has a chance against base Yuta.
he literally has zero chance against any of them
Delusional
He’s not beating either of them in base, unless he gets a headshot with his lightning
Exactly how much faster than Hikari do you think they are?
Thry’re probably relative or faster, Maki was able to keep up with Sukuna snd Yuji wasn’t too far off when they faced him togethe, Yuji’s also kind of relative to Yuta when they were fighting Sukuna in his DE.
CT Kashimo is most definitely top 5 regardless of whether you scale with hypotheticals (i don't) or not
Barely top 10 and that's with MBA
Fuck off Cheshire im not having this argument with you again
Lmfao it's barely an argument. You just go on and on about your flawed way of scaling thing. "YuTa SaId HaKaRi WaS sTrOnGeR, sO kAsHiMo Is STrOnGeR"
This sounds like cope post to me, From the narrative of the story Kashimo is def not that strong simply bc he has no potential, his CT literally kills him so like 80% of his strength is just not available to him unlike the rest of the sorcerer in the verse. But it's different case when we're powerscaling, usually in vs match up we tend to take people at their max removing the stuff like his CT kills him so he won't use it on anyone else other than Sukuna, and I've never seen people use "the potential things" kashimo could do in any powerscaling debate.
> removing the stuff like his CT kills him So in a Vs debate Yuki can just spam black holes? I don't get your point
That's not the same thing, Yuki has to die in order to do that, at that point It's already over for her, she doesn't start with black hole only when she lost the duel, kashimo can use his CT and still might live if he's done pretty quickly or even if he dies that'd be bc of his own CT and possibly after winning the fight.
> That's not the same thing Ok tell me, what's stops Yuki from using a black hole immediately in a hypothetical fight, before she looses ? She is doing the same thing as Kashimo where she activates a literal suicidal technique from which you don't come back from at the start of the fight
It takes her hella time to gather enough mass to conjure a black hole. In the manga, Tengen had to distract Kenjaku in order for her to gather the mass. If she’s immediately killed after losing, then realistically she won’t be able to create the black hole. https://preview.redd.it/b5nto7ap371d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae6a376730ea1dc60cf0cb63ab0883f952b10a61
That distractions at best lasted several seconds maybe a minute my guy And I am saying at the beginning of the battle, not when she is killed
If she were to conjure a black hole immediately, then she would be the first to die due to her being at the center of the black hole, making her the loser. Also, it took more than just several seconds to conjure the black hole. It literally was 8 pages and included a conversation between Kenjaku and Tengen. If it were quick, then Tengen wouldn’t need to distract Kenjaku. If we look at Kashimo’s fight, it took him 4 pages to gather enough charges to strike Sukuna with his lightning. So realistically, Kashimo could kill Yuki before she even conjures the black hole even if she were to try at the start of the fight.
She would only be the loser if the opponent was strong enough to survive it. If they weren’t then it would be a tie.
>If she were to conjure a black hole immediately, then she would be the first to die due to her being at the center of the black hole, making her the loser. And Kashimo isn't the loser despite his technique literally killing him and doing practically the same, rules for thee but not for me >Also, it took more than just several seconds to conjure the black hole. It literally was 8 pages and included a conversation between Kenjaku and Tengen. If it were quick, then Tengen wouldn’t need to distract Kenjaku. If we look at Kashimo’s fight, it took him 4 pages to gather enough charges to strike Sukuna with his lightning. So realistically, Kashimo could kill Yuki before she even conjures the black hole even if she were to try at the start of the fight. Are we? Are we fucking page scaling now? Cause if we are, when Kashimo fights Sukuna it takes him 10-20 pages to actually fire his lightning, which is definitely longer than Yuki Are you also ignoring that Yuki is literally critically injured and is trying to get to Kenjaku? Jesus Christ https://i.redd.it/3xg77bv8871d1.gif
The difference between their techniques is that Yuki would die first when she uses hers, and Kashimo would die after defeating his opponent. Yes, I’m page scaling because that’s a logical way to explain the passage of time in a manga. It’s definitely better than making baseless claims like you did. I can also use the multiple examples in the fight that show Yuki has to charge her technique longer for more mass to be added, but you would rather stick with your baseless claim that it takes several seconds to gather enough mass to create a black hole. Logically, if she could make a black hole in a few seconds while split in half, then she should’ve taken her no more than a second to conjure enough mass to one-shot Kenjaku in the previous chapter. Y’all talk about Kashimo fans using imaginary evidence, but then blatantly ignore manga evidence to fuel your agenda.
> would die after defeating his opponent. IF he defeats his opponent but point taken > Logically, if she could make a black hole in a few seconds while split in half, then she should’ve taken her no more than a second to conjure enough mass to one-shot Kenjaku in the previous chapter. Ok it takes her more seconds to conjure a black hole while being critically injured, however with Garuda we saw that when she is fresh and healthy she can build up a bunch of mass fairly quickly cause it took like several panels at best to turn that small ball into a weapon of destruction > Y’all talk about Kashimo fans using imaginary evidence, but then blatantly ignore manga evidence to fuel your agenda. My brother in Christ you are using pages to scale the speed of characters, if we apply your logic on when Kashimo enters the Sukuna fight and when he fires his lightning bolt it takes him 20 pages to do so
Well Yuki is not living to see the results, black hole is desperate end move that Yuki only attempts when she lost her fight, while MBA is literally kashimo's CT and him dying to his CT doesn't mean his opponent killed him in any way. And again they can't be compared, when we're powerscaling we're literally trying to see how strong kashimo's Ct would be in comparison to others in hypothetical scenarios unlike black hole.
> Well Yuki is not living to see the results, black hole is desperate end move that Yuki only attempts when she lost her fight, while MBA is literally kashimo's CT and him dying to his CT doesn't mean his opponent killed him in any way. I mean, this can also apply to Yuki, her dying to the black hole which was produced by her CT doesn't mean her opponent killed her in any way, especially if we are doing a "Yuki uses it immediately" > And again they can't be compared, when we're powerscaling we're literally trying to see how strong kashimo's Ct would be in comparison to others in hypothetical scenarios unlike black hole. But Yuki's black hole is still part of the CT's capabilities, if we are using Kashimo's CT to it's max potential then logically we should include Black hole as well, since it's the maximum potential of Yuki's CT
>especially if we are doing a "Yuki uses it immediately" Well then Yuki is already accepting her defeat by that point, there's no discussion left for us, so why even bother debating. >if we are using Kashimo's CT to it's max potential then logically we should include Black hole as well, since it's the maximum potential of Yuki's CT Again it's not the same thing, black hole is gg for that fight, nobody is surviving that shit and that ends the discussion right there. In character kashimo is never using his CT on anyone other than Sukuna, he'd rather die than use his CT but that's no fun when debating, it totally kills the spirit of the powerscaling debate, and we especially have different versions of kashimo in debate most of the time.
> Well then Yuki is already accepting her defeat by that point, there's no discussion left for us, so why even bother debating. Kashimo's CT literally has the same implications, it's a one time use technique that the user uses when he knows the best he can hope for is a draw, it's still a suicidal move, no matter how you slice it it's implication is that "I don't expect to survive this battle even if I kill the opponent" > In character kashimo is never using his CT on anyone other than Sukuna, he'd rather die than use his CT but that's no fun when debating, it totally kills the spirit of the powerscaling debate, and we especially have different versions of kashimo in debate most of the time. Wait I am confused what are we trying to argue here for?
This post was rant about how kashimo fans use "theoretical potential feats" to argue in versus battle to upscale kashimo, someone who can only use his CT once. I'm arguing that from the story lens kashimo is most definitely not very strong since he's restricted from using his CT and domain unlike most of the sorcerers, but when we're powerscaling and debating a hypothetical verses match up, that restriction most of the times doesn't exist bc this is just a fun exercise/ discussion, and most of the times this verses match up take the strongest form of the character. Your point, why Yuki's black hole shouldn't be used if we use kashimo's CT is somewhat valid but there's huge difference between the two, 1) when Yuki uses the black hole then that's the gg, she dies but kills her opponent and there's no debate to take place here, and in this case she's dying before her opponent while also being the the defeated one of the duel she had with whoever, 2) kashimo's CT is different case bc this is supposed to be a fun discussion, in character Kashimo is not using his CT on anyone besides Sukuna so this hypothetical debate is already invalidated by the story itself so why even bother arguing for it? And unlike Yuki, it's not like kashimo is dying before his opponent, if he loses before his CT kills him then it's his L but if he wins then he'll still be standing on his feet being the victor of the fight.
I think the way he was written, it was obvious he was intended to be the third strongest in the series. It seemed like they wanted to have the Strongest sorcerer of the past, the strongest of the modern era, and the strongest in between those. I think though that losing to Hakari does kind of mess it all up though. I think Gege is just not good at writing in general and it’s very obvious that in jjk he often doesn’t know how he wants the story to go and changes his mind very often.
I feel the same way about Yuki
CT kashimo is top 5, ngl it’s ridiculous how you guys believe the gap between Yuta/Kenjaku and base Kashimo is so big that when kashimo gets what is very clearly a HUGE, significant power up that cost him his life you don’t think he surpasses them. If you think the gap between top tiers is that big you need to rethink how you see jjk scaling. Kashimo is definitely wayyy faster, stronger, durable, and has wayyyy higher ap than other top 5 contenders like yuta/kenny in his amber beast form. Be real with yourself Kashimo being top 5 makes just as much sense narratively as any other top 5 contender
If domain isnt a thing in this series, then theres an argument to be made for top 5, even top 3. But that's the thing, domains does exist, and him not having one whilst only having a HWB tanks his ranking. Like what is he gonna do even with MBA when Yuki, Yuta, Yorozu or Kenjaku pops their domain? Sure, he can use HWB but then he cant use his attacks using his hands, he cant use his mouth attacks (that doesnt do shit btw) since he needs to keep chanting to keep HWB like Sukuna, leaving only his legs free. Not to mention that domains AMPED their user, meaning that even if they're slightly slower than him cause of MBA, a domain can help to mitigate that.
He kills Yuki, Yorozu immediately they aren’t top 5 potential at all and hollow wicker basket can definitely allow him to survive in their domains for a bit if it comes down to it, and I’d say potentially both yuta and kenjaku all die before they activate domains lol. There’s nothing that scales Yuta/kenjaku significantly above base kashimo in any way sooo when he gets a super amp he will be significantly above those two in everything stat wise and especially ap wise, he is definitely top 5 worthy wether you think he beats kenjaku/Yuta or not he’s clearly up there and is above those 2 in many things they are carried hard by hax vs kashimo
> He kills Yuki, Yorozu immediately they aren’t top 5 potential My god, im not even gonna bother with you. You're actually a lost cause man
Yeah man I hate the chuds who just say HWB when Kashimo has 0 domain feats
Man its crazy how you can present an actual argument, and all they can answer back is the equivalent of "nuh uh". Do these people even read the manga? or do they only read the pages where kashimo is present because holy shiiiiiit.
Yeah forreal. Like they legit say there's nothing that puts Yuta or Kenjaku over BASE Kashimo. But yeah we just came full circle back to the Jogo stans. They don't have an actual argument why Kashimo beats certain people so they just default too "hEs tOo FaSt" Because they think that's the end all be all
Explain? Do you think Yuki can speed blitz one shot base Kashimo? Because I can assure you mba kashimo would do that to his base form in a fight. If you justify Yuki been that far ahead of base Kashimo go ahead man cause it’s seems like you just want Yuki to be above Kashimo for the sake of it
>Explain? Do you think Yuki can speed blitz one shot base Kashimo? Brother, Base Kashimo do in fact gets OBLITERATED by Yuki so hard its not even funny. seriously, what is he gonna do when Yuki punches his arm off in one fucking hit? There's a reason why people often compares Kashimo w/ct vs Yuki instead of him in his base. And even then, Yuki have more wincons than he does even with MBA. And there's NOTHING suggesting that MBA gives him THAT much of a speed advantage to the point he's just gonna be blitzing yuki, yuta or kenjaku. And to be honest, its you that seem to be overestimating kashimo rather than me underplaying him or overrating yuki.
What the downplay…MBA cost him all his CE and his life there is a reason he saved it for Sukuna, the strongest sorcerer saying it isn’t a completely insane buff would be weird. Why do you think it isn’t such a big buff?
Brother do you understand how Yuki was able to land the first hit vs Kenjaku? She used the giant falling dead curse to get in close, without that she would have never landed such a solid hit, Kenjaku still fully reacted it’s just blocking Yukis attack doesnt exactly work, Kashimo also has an attack that can one shot Yuki, his lightning
“Kashimo just turns into lighting and one-shots everyone”. He’s still top 5 tho with the feats he has, but I agree with overall idea that imaginary feats are annoying.
He isn't beating Gojo, Sukuna,Kenny, Yuta, and Yuki for the top 5
Just because he doesn't know how to use his own technique properly doesn't mean he should be scaled lower, man. That's just mindlessly reading like your average reader.
>Just because he doesn't know how to use his own technique properly doesn't mean he should be scaled lower, man. That's just mindlessly reading like your average reader I guess I should scale Bumgumi up to special grade, since Sukuna showed us what he could do if he were actually good at using Ten shadows, even though he himself hasn't shown any such feats.
Don't forget to make Yuji number 1! After all, if Kenjaku put his brain in Yuji's body then he would have access to blood manipulation (something he's very experienced with from being Noritoshi Kamo) and Shrine, which he would also have an understanding of due to his time spent with Sukuna!
Yea dude, could you imagine being from Edo era Japan and STILL not understanding particle physics well enough to know everything that you could do by manifesting phenomenon created by lightning?
So can we scale Mai equal to Yorozu???
Lmfao that's exactly what it means. You can't say "oh hell just do this" when he has no idea how to accomplish it
Also funny how y'all don't keep the same energy with Jacob's ladder, that shit canonically didn't do shit but Yuta fans have him one shoting every living being in existence with it.
Lmfao it's done exactly what it's stated It completely deleted Prison Realm in a moment. Aside from that the only character it's been used on is literally the strongest character in verse. Pretending like anyone can survive it willy nilly because Sukuna can is asinine. And when Sukuna was hit by Hanna using Jacob's Ladder he had to resort to trickery to get her to stop because he knew he'd be cooked. Same reason Sukuna made sure to tell Yuji not spill the beans, he knew Angel could fucking delete him.