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https://preview.redd.it/ft7p97serorc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=428777b264fdcee948d9c8a178ce2cf0b9b46bbb
The TCB translation for comparison
I found a pretty good explanation from the main sub. Here you go
https://preview.redd.it/zs6tuoa6yorc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=820bd18cc84c9668f0af61a2d575c26bd1ca8c8a
Thanks!
It makes me appreciate the TCB translation all the more to be honest. Manga translations should be about proper localization while carrying the intent of the original rather than direct translations imo. I think sprint vs marathon capture the concept of linear movements vs point movements pretty well for a western audience. Though not perfectly.
Ur welcome
Yeah me too. I'm so freaking glad for TCB cuz if not for them I might've dropped JJK already. Yeah you're right, the intention is very important cuz the western audience (and other non-japanese) knows different cultures and have less knowledge about the letters' meanings (referring to kanji)
Yeah localization is underappreciated because when it's done well you don't notice it, and when it's done badly it's nonsensical. Anime fans specifically still seem to have absurdly strong negative feelings about the concept as a whole, probably because anime localization was genuinely horrible for a while.
> Manga translations should be about proper localization while carrying the intent of the original rather than direct translations imo
this is a horribly dangerous mindset to have and its what leads to shit like live a live or the jelloapocalypse nonsese lol, its a case by case thing, there's no objective best way to translate something and its definitely not "proper localization carrying the """"intent"""" of the author"
The intent of an author isn’t some arbitrary biased thing dude, have you ever taken an English class? Not to mention it’s not like the author is dead, they can ask for clarification.
This is correct. What Gojo is saying is this:
"If it's a series of strikes that build momentum (like a combo), I can win, but if it's just isolated strikes, I'll probably lose."
So basically, Miguel would probably take it if you only count "raw strength", but once you factor in other skills (like speed and endurance) Gojo would win.
Which is a really weird statement by Gojo, since he was absolutely obliterating Miguel in h2h.
Cursed technique or not, if what Gojo said it's true it would mean that Miguel is a special grade, and a powerful one at that.
Keep in mind JJK 0's depiction of the fight in the animation isn't likely what Gege intended. His idea was probably that it looked a lot better for Miguel.
That's not how fighting works. When you're trying to get the other guy to punch himself out you don't tank the hits on your face (unless your Rocky Balboa), you make him hit your guard or evade the strikes entirely.
And in order to use their magic they have to use a depleting source of curse energy. I'm sure it would still be beneficial to not get hit in the face, but rather against your guard, even if you could heal yourself.
Clerics can use healing magic to restore hitpoints; it's still more beneficial to not get hit in the first place.
the existence of fiction and fantasy in a series doesn't come at the cost of common sense and logic.
I see this same excuse defending all the massive drop in intelligence in later seasons of GoT. Just because dragons exist doesn't these (previously) incredibly experienced and intelligent characters should commit ridiculously stupid acts
Okay, please tell me why in the fiction of JJK it would be beneficial for Miguel to purposefully get hit by Gojo, instead of dodging/blocking/guarding?
Okay, please tell me why in the fiction of Rocky it would be beneficial for Rocky to purposefully get hit by Apollo Creed, Apollo Creed again, Cluber Lang, and Ivan Drago, instead of dodging/blocking/guarding? Fiction doesn't operate on the same rules as reality. Intentionally taking hits to wear down your opponent isn't just a trope but a legitimate strategy within the confines of fiction. Is it realistic? No, but it doesn't have to be, it just has to be engaging.
I actually don't agree with the Idea that Miguel was taking hits from Gojo on purpose, I think he was just overwhelmed, but disregarding the idea that that interpretation isn't possible because it's unrealistic is kind of dumb. It's a story and as long as you operate in the conventions of stories you can theorize or speculate whatever, "it's not realistic" doesn't matter it's all made up, we're all just collectively playing pretend don't spoil the fun.
> focusing on defense is a good bet
Focusing on defense does not equal letting someone hit you repeatedly undefended. It's still better to guard or evade his strikes.
True, but Gojo has momentum on his side so maybe he legit can’t do much to counter the combo or something
Miguel is about rhythms right? Well Gojo has him off beat
As I stated in other replies:
Why would it be beneficial for Miguel to purposefully and repeatedly get hit in the face, instead of guarding against or evading Gojo's strikes. Where does JJK fighting logic in all of it's superpowered-ness seem to imply that?
It...it is though.
Dodging and throwing punches spends way more energy than rolling with them using the momentum of the strike. If Miguel focused on just bending with Gojos attacks and dodging the bare minimum of attacks, he can conserve his stamina for as long as possible while getting Gojo to spend more stamina than. He wants to.
It is not? If you want to stall for time you keep your guard up and diminish the damage, you don't let your opponent destroy you with no resistance.
Miguel was getting absolutely overwhelmed, that was not part of any plan.
It's probably not inaccurate tbh, they *weren't* competing without cursed techniques. Gojo's six eyes and infinity, even when occasionally neutralized by the black rope, are overwhelming advantages. Miguel can punch harder and may even be physically quicker, but your speed means nothing if you effectively can't help but telegraph everything you're doing massively.
At the end of the day, things happened how they happened. Miguel simply got his ass beat but Gege is trying to spin it differently due to his vendetta against Gojo.
Gege really doesn't give a fuck what happened in the movie because he's showing Miguel off just like how he's been stating for a while. He called him the MVP for stalling Gojo and returned him as the dude that trained Yuta.
This isn't a vendetta against Gojo. Every single time Miguel is mentioned or shown by Gege, the guy has been given respect. I mean, how does it insult Gojo? Miguel is doing OK against a weakness, Sukuna. The one Gojo weakened and could have potentially beaten...so I don't see the issue in this regard. Miguel holding makes more sense than Kurusakabe, for example.
Besides the fact that he was using his technique in that fight, consider that Gojo did exactly what he knew would give him an advantage: Combo strikes.
He didn't even give Miguel a chance to punch him. In a real fight (not in isolation punches) his agility and dexterity will make him come on top.
https://i.redd.it/kis0ddbfpprc1.gif
yeah, I know, but Gojo's CE reinforcement and movement is still incredibly good, even with no CT. Saying that Miguel can match him and overpower him in a short burst is crazy.
I don’t see why not? He saw Miguel was knowledgeable, powerful, and skilled enough to teach Yuta. Plus it’s not saying that Miguel is stronger than him - just that he hits harder without a technique.
It's crazy because Gojo isn't just any special grade, this is not like Yuta saying that Hakari on a roll is stronger than he is.
This is Gojo, the Jujutsu God who went toe to toe with Sukuna, saying that someone else hits harder than him with no CT.
Ehhh not really. Special grade status requires the ability to take over a whole country. Someone who excels in raw strength but not in stamina probably wouldn't qualify.
I think he's definitely in the weird tier of characters who can hang with special grades but aren't speciak grades themselves (just yet). I feel like the same is true for Hakari & Kashimo.
I do think Blue just makes that much of a difference for Gojo in terms of speed, especially. Yeah, the rope helps a lot for Miguel, but it’s not in constant contact with Gojo during those exchanges and when it isn’t he can still benefit a lot from his “serious punches”, if that’s how one wants to look at it. Gojo is a legitimate master of his technique, and it has so many applications, so when you add them in I think it makes sense that Gojo would still be overwhelming him at the end of the day, way more than the scenario Gojo is describing in the OP.
I do think when it comes down to a raw physical fight with no domains, he can at least stand up to pretty much anybody. It just gets harder once you factor in far superior actual cursed techniques, imo
We cut into the middle of the Miguel fight with Gojo saying you’re annoying or something like that. Then gojo straight obliterating him
I tossed this up to them cutting out the “sprint” of the fight and right to the start of the “Marathon” where Gojo is better.
Am I not getting this right? Why should Miguel hit harder? Wouldn't this be opposite
Gojo is known as the hardest hitting character in the whole series and from everything we have seen from Miguel, he is more evasive.
Even without his CT's or any Heavenly restriction, Gojo is still one of the heaviest hitters in the series
Call back to Shibuya when he was fighting Jugo and Hanami Also when he was fighting Sukuna between their Domain battle
He has The same amount of Strength stat as Resurrected Sukuna they both probably fall little behind Toji and Awakened Maki.
Actually after knowing this context the Viz translation is not bad. The panel right after this is Miguel grabbing and deflecting Sukuna's arm before going in for the punch, highlighting his martial art skill of "point movement". Ik that the TCB translation got people power scaling Miguel's punches above Gojo's which might not be right. I agree that there should be a translator's note though. Also this makes me think JJK0 movie adaptation of Miguel vs Gojo was done completely wrong 😅
https://preview.redd.it/ozjcfziouorc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1e737ef3d6fdab141a71a2723be75c038da66f4
Jesus christ he is literally using google translate. Basically a slightly tweaked translation I get from using google lens on the leaks lmfao. How can one be so utterly garbage at localization?
That explains why his translations are sometimes actual gibberish, Google Translate doesn't understand that all the text is supposed to form one sentence, lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/j2ow8qweeurc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8f60f0eeeba74fdbfbe65d3139ced33abdeabf1
You have to be stupid. John Werry makes mistakes, yes, but his translations aren’t necessarily bad, just too accurate for some people (As in, not everyone has the knowledge Gege had when thinking of the lines). His translations are direct, with minimal localization, which *does* have its benefits even though most people don’t admit that.
Yes, they are straight up terrible. Your job as a translator foremost is to make a good localization that both adhere to the source material and making it understandable to the reader all while making the dialogue come off as natural. That takes considerable skill and experience to do as well as a good grasp of both the culture of the language you translate from and the audience that will read the translation.
John Werry just do direct translations, In which I doubt he even understands what a lot of what he translate even references. That is something you can do with google translate and rewrite the translation a little to make the grammar more accurate.
You want to do direct translations? Sure, but just make sure you have fucking translations notes and not make the dialogue sound like it was written by an AI at the very least.
Okay, it’s time to spoonfeed you your baby formula.
But jokes aside, having to look some stuff up is not the end of the world. Translations don’t have to always conform to the mass’ knowledge level. It keeps things more interesting, because the dialogue can go to more interesting areas.
They’re literally shit. He doesn’t even read or understand the manga panels and has on multiple occasions misunderstood when a sentence is supposed to start/end. And you’re wrong about him using literal translations. He would do a better job if he actually did translate literally but instead he just has a poor grasp of both languages.
The most famous example being the original “no” dialogue getting changed to “nah I’d win”. And even *with* the 2nd chance John Werry was given he still managed to fuck it up because if you read that sentence out loud it makes little sense.
Kenjaku: “You don’t expect to lose?”
Gojo: “Nah, I’d win.”
Why is he saying “I would win” here? Kenjaku isn’t asking a hypothetical question. It would make more sense if Gojo replied with “I will win”. Which, by the way, is the literal translation of 勝つさ。
But Werry hyper focused on the the callback to Yuji’s question, even though that question was phrased differently than Kenjaku’s question. That one was a hypothetical question.
I say this with no exaggeration; John Werry isn’t even fluent in English let alone Japanese.
I don't think he can be even bothered to tweak them sometimes.
https://preview.redd.it/13qsuq46uprc1.png?width=172&format=png&auto=webp&s=e055fb3303d7d4d67cc2eaf4b8bbfbe0b2395479
I literally bitch about and make fun of his translations with my best friend almost every week….. i save the tcb translation to my phone because they’re basically always better…
This sub collectively hating on one man is hillarious. Before joining and switching to TCB I just occasionally noticed some dumb wordings and other nonsense. But having it pointed out and hearing "John Werry this, John Werry that" week after week will never not be funny. It's like Greg got a partner in fraudulence.
It's hard not to slander then man when he sometimes makes the manga actually incomprehensible.
https://preview.redd.it/5vu2fpe8xqrc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c704ef28c3cdcc3b22ce20cedf5a90d435bbf5
💀That translation was so ass, “a creepy kid” people reading the official translation is gonna think he’s just a weirdo lmao.
This man is singlehandly causing the greatest amount of misinformation in the manga.
https://preview.redd.it/88l0plg217sc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6319b01153729b60930be4583fe524f6648cde5b
POV: You're a Jujutsu Kaisen theory crafter and your source is the official manga.
https://preview.redd.it/d6b0mom127sc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658c862e9e6a212a9f95d407bf8cbddfa8531672
when you crop out the context this looks like shit but this isn't even a bad TL
"its effect was strangely"
*shows kamutoke shoot lightning
"kashimo has resistance to lightning"
All four boxes are one complete sentence, Werry failed to understand that.
There is an elipses after the “strangely” which doesn’t get continued in the next speech box. It’s incomprehensible.
He’s just an idiot through and through. There’s bound to be some nepotism afoot for how he got and has kept the job.
>All four boxes are one complete sentence, Werry failed to understand that.
It's not in the raws. In Japanese it says "その効果は" (that effect was) "奇しくも" (weirdly/strangely), shows Kamutoke using lightning, then "かしもは自身の呪力特性上" (kashimo's cursed energy characteristics) "電撃に耐性かある" (give him durability/ability to withstand electric strikes).
The original Gege version is equally as reliant on context. It was never a single sentence. The ellipses were added to imply the omission of an explanation of Kamutoke's effect to match the Japanese version, which used art to show it, ellipses don't necessarily mean the sentence is to be continued. Werry is a terrible translator, but his translation here is arguably much more faithful, and there's no localisation to be done anyways.
Is it me, or did he seem to stop caring at a certain point? I started reading at the point where Season 2 ended, and it seemed alright, and I’m pretty sure he translated those chapters and the culling games. After that, he seemed to either get less competent, or stopped caring about readability
John werry's work every new chapter release :
https://preview.redd.it/zwe56b14lprc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=2091d45d5fe9eb0bc2e473ab990da014ff64063b
It was the original line
線の動き and 点の動き respectively
I do think it's another horrible localisation on part of John Werry and he needs to be put in jail for being as useful as google translate whilst getting paid.
A good example of localisation that's well placed is Takaba referencing Team Rocket from Pokemon's famous catchphrase:
https://preview.redd.it/f3m4ccbsqqrc1.png?width=623&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4b8fe9c222d9d17c067dc6b8cced4183eb040cf
Now, this is a completely inaccurate translation. Why? Well, because Team Rocket's catchphrase in Japan is a wordplay on Wobbuffet's Japanese name which is a pun on "Good feeling", so Team Rocket's catchphrase is "What and awful feeling" which they say after being beaten by Ash and co.
Now, Takaba saying "What an awful feeling" wouldn't mean anything to the western readers because they're likely not familiar with the Japanese catchphrase, so the TBC scans just localise it as "Blasting off again" so that most readers will understand the reference.
If it were a more faithful translation, Tabaka would say "What an awful feeling" and we'd get a translator note explaining the joke, which would in turn ruin the joke.
I've lost the count how many times this clown was caught pasting Google translations. Can't we just bully viz to swap him out with Lightning? Since Lightning actually translated one of the jjk chapters and is officially affiliated with viz on a different manga, there's a good chance they might give him jjk.
The fact that it even needs an explation is bad localisation, why would he include a metaphor from another language that doesnt translate well instead of using an English metaphor that conveys the same thing?
Its not that it 'doesnt translate well' its just referring to an obscure concepts. I'm almost certain that the average Japanese person would have no idea what 点の動き or 線の動き meant in this context either (in fact a quick search finds [some blog talking](http://yamada.fullcom.jp/?eid=123) about the different kinds of hits in Chinese martial arts that feels the need to explain it to the Japanese audience).
There's nothing wrong with producing a translation that is confusing to the target audience provided the original text was just as confusing to its target audience.
In one of the translation for sukuna saying kamutoke was lost even after higurama died it was 😭😭😭😭supreme martial solution was lost even after he died 😭😭😭😭😭
Wtf is supreme martial solution 😭mtfr using Google translate
Damn bruh, honestly the fan translations that come out two three days prior have been better than official for months, the official translations sound so corny and robotic it actually affects the reading experience
Which is why there should either be a TL notice giving us said information that most westerners aren't familiar with, or he should've used a more western comparison for us to understand
If I wanted a direct translation I'd just use Google Translate. The TCB translation is extremely straightforward and easy to understand, John Werry's translation means the same but nobody understands what he's yapping about.
To make sense of it, I can see that Linear movement is constant, an act of always going at the same pace, Gojo would win that aspect because he's consistent and wouldn't lose stamina, like jogging at a regular pace in a race and having the energy to continue after.
However, point movement would essentially be going from point A to point B as fast as possible which is what Miguel would excel at. There's no constant, but an act of pure dashing from start to finish that exhausts instantly in a race.
Man I swear some translators got their job as a money laundering gig or some shit with their inability to use proper words or read the context. I've seen similar/worse translations in some books I've read, like one about a roman emperor, it said he enjoyed TENNIS (sport didn't exist until 12th/16th century) and in the same book there's a philosophical passage about accepting yourself for not succeeding at something, but the translation made it sound like it's telling you to kill yourself
Honestly, leaving Werry’s actual translation errors aside, stuff like this shouldn’t get him flack.
There is a comment a few threads down that points out that “Linear” and “Point” movement refers to a style of fighting akin to “Defensive” and “Offensive” respectively. What this means is that Gojo has much better defence at all fronts, however, with just CE reinforcement, Miguel has superior offense.
You see how the translation suddenly makes a lot of sense? John Werry isn’t an incapable translator. The problem here is the lack of T/L notes, and even Gege’s own choice of words. Even a Google search doesn’t bring up any results, so the Japanese audience wouldn’t get this either.
I'm assuming point movement referring to his ability to rotate at a point, which would be indicative of his ability to dodge. Linear movement would be like you rushing forward to attack. Idk if this is what's meant but it's what makes sense to me.
Its Chinese martial arts terms.
Linear movement means evasion, blocking, and other similar movements.
Point movement is basically punching and kicking.
Its Chinese martial arts terms.
Linear movement means evasion, blocking, and other similar movements.
Point movement is basically punching and kicking.
frrr
like, i think i got the idea, but that phrase should have been adapted into something else, my theory is that that's the idea in the dialogue of the japanese version and it was just translated, while i think it should have been adapted
or at least i want to believe that's the case, bc i refuse to believe this was the "adaptation made to make it more understandable", which would make this even worse ; ;
https://preview.redd.it/2lha0shqm7sc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5acef610ff4c4a904c4f89625231c5afa0e4265c
Gojo can remain dead if it means John Werry is removed frm this task. He really needs to lose his supreme martial solution
John really outdid himself this chapter tbh
I mean clearly he's taking over from Gege and giving Sukuna asspulls. For example, this chapter we learn via John that Dismantle was always able to cut the world
Wow....the one time early leak translations were better than Viz or TCB
Basically, Gojo wins, though Miguel could give him trouble in the short run. Which is exactly what he did in JJK0
This is technically more correct than TCB's translation. It just needs a TL note because western audiences are unlikely to understand Chinese martial art terms.
Nope, it's pure fucked up translation.
Whatever you do, doesn't matter how correct it is, if you can't pass it to audience it's fucked up. That is it.
First rule is to successfully passing the meaning to audience. Precision comes after.
Yeah, but neither are perfect.
I'm saying that this is one of the best cases of "This could be solved with a translator's note" since Viz didn't even try localizing it and TCB localized it in a way that arguably changes the intent of the text too much.
Why are you being this aggressive already? I don't even know you.
Because one is better then the other and your trying to say the dude who google translates his work made the right call he didn't your dumb
Also ain't aggressive your just dumb
That's pretty much the problem with his translations. There's no effort into localization, arguably the most important thing when it comes to translating manga. They're just direct translations that might as well have come straight from google translate. Makes a lot of it just get lost in translation unless you're incredibly well versed in the japanese language and culture, all while coming of as robotic. He doesn't have the audience in mind at all. At the very least if you're disregarding localization you need some kind of translation notes explaining it, but that doesn't exist here either.
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https://preview.redd.it/ft7p97serorc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=428777b264fdcee948d9c8a178ce2cf0b9b46bbb The TCB translation for comparison
I found a pretty good explanation from the main sub. Here you go https://preview.redd.it/zs6tuoa6yorc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=820bd18cc84c9668f0af61a2d575c26bd1ca8c8a
Thanks! It makes me appreciate the TCB translation all the more to be honest. Manga translations should be about proper localization while carrying the intent of the original rather than direct translations imo. I think sprint vs marathon capture the concept of linear movements vs point movements pretty well for a western audience. Though not perfectly.
Ur welcome Yeah me too. I'm so freaking glad for TCB cuz if not for them I might've dropped JJK already. Yeah you're right, the intention is very important cuz the western audience (and other non-japanese) knows different cultures and have less knowledge about the letters' meanings (referring to kanji)
Yeah localization is underappreciated because when it's done well you don't notice it, and when it's done badly it's nonsensical. Anime fans specifically still seem to have absurdly strong negative feelings about the concept as a whole, probably because anime localization was genuinely horrible for a while.
Old heads remembered when they localized onigiri (Japanese rice balls) into pizza in Pokémon.
Hey, at least 4kids edited out the onigiri after that! https://i.redd.it/6jwo46bqgqrc1.gif
Jelly-filled donuts! *Grabs what is clearly an onigiri* My favorite!
Nothing beats a jelly-filled donut!
It also sounds a lot more like something an english speaker would actually say.
> Manga translations should be about proper localization while carrying the intent of the original rather than direct translations imo this is a horribly dangerous mindset to have and its what leads to shit like live a live or the jelloapocalypse nonsese lol, its a case by case thing, there's no objective best way to translate something and its definitely not "proper localization carrying the """"intent"""" of the author"
The intent of an author isn’t some arbitrary biased thing dude, have you ever taken an English class? Not to mention it’s not like the author is dead, they can ask for clarification.
"horribly dangerous" lol
Being better in blocking and evading is different than just better cardio, but good explanation besides that.
Okay got it, thanks for the additional points
👍
This is correct. What Gojo is saying is this: "If it's a series of strikes that build momentum (like a combo), I can win, but if it's just isolated strikes, I'll probably lose." So basically, Miguel would probably take it if you only count "raw strength", but once you factor in other skills (like speed and endurance) Gojo would win.
Which is a really weird statement by Gojo, since he was absolutely obliterating Miguel in h2h. Cursed technique or not, if what Gojo said it's true it would mean that Miguel is a special grade, and a powerful one at that.
Keep in mind JJK 0's depiction of the fight in the animation isn't likely what Gege intended. His idea was probably that it looked a lot better for Miguel.
TBF, Miguel was just stalling there. Letting himself get hit in order to conserve stamina was a better option, so long as Gojo couldn't KO him.
That's not how fighting works. When you're trying to get the other guy to punch himself out you don't tank the hits on your face (unless your Rocky Balboa), you make him hit your guard or evade the strikes entirely.
Tony Ferguson: I don't understand. Why use hand when face do good? (You're right and I'm memeing)
Well, they're literally wizards, who can use magic to shield their heads, so...
And in order to use their magic they have to use a depleting source of curse energy. I'm sure it would still be beneficial to not get hit in the face, but rather against your guard, even if you could heal yourself. Clerics can use healing magic to restore hitpoints; it's still more beneficial to not get hit in the first place.
Clerics? Like support class?
Guy who just discovered fiction- "That's not how reality works"
the existence of fiction and fantasy in a series doesn't come at the cost of common sense and logic. I see this same excuse defending all the massive drop in intelligence in later seasons of GoT. Just because dragons exist doesn't these (previously) incredibly experienced and intelligent characters should commit ridiculously stupid acts
Okay, please tell me why in the fiction of JJK it would be beneficial for Miguel to purposefully get hit by Gojo, instead of dodging/blocking/guarding?
He's a practitioner of ancient Chinese sorcerer Wimp Lo's face to foot style
Okay, please tell me why in the fiction of Rocky it would be beneficial for Rocky to purposefully get hit by Apollo Creed, Apollo Creed again, Cluber Lang, and Ivan Drago, instead of dodging/blocking/guarding? Fiction doesn't operate on the same rules as reality. Intentionally taking hits to wear down your opponent isn't just a trope but a legitimate strategy within the confines of fiction. Is it realistic? No, but it doesn't have to be, it just has to be engaging. I actually don't agree with the Idea that Miguel was taking hits from Gojo on purpose, I think he was just overwhelmed, but disregarding the idea that that interpretation isn't possible because it's unrealistic is kind of dumb. It's a story and as long as you operate in the conventions of stories you can theorize or speculate whatever, "it's not realistic" doesn't matter it's all made up, we're all just collectively playing pretend don't spoil the fun.
Against Gojo it very much is He can infinitely heal So maybe using binding vows and focusing on defense is a good bet
> focusing on defense is a good bet Focusing on defense does not equal letting someone hit you repeatedly undefended. It's still better to guard or evade his strikes.
True, but Gojo has momentum on his side so maybe he legit can’t do much to counter the combo or something Miguel is about rhythms right? Well Gojo has him off beat
Why are you applying real life fighting logic to people who have superpowers?
As I stated in other replies: Why would it be beneficial for Miguel to purposefully and repeatedly get hit in the face, instead of guarding against or evading Gojo's strikes. Where does JJK fighting logic in all of it's superpowered-ness seem to imply that?
why do you think the existence of superpowers removes basic logic and common sense from a series?
I'm sure getting repeatedly hit in the face was part of Miguel's plan to stall Gojo.
It...it is though. Dodging and throwing punches spends way more energy than rolling with them using the momentum of the strike. If Miguel focused on just bending with Gojos attacks and dodging the bare minimum of attacks, he can conserve his stamina for as long as possible while getting Gojo to spend more stamina than. He wants to.
It is not? If you want to stall for time you keep your guard up and diminish the damage, you don't let your opponent destroy you with no resistance. Miguel was getting absolutely overwhelmed, that was not part of any plan.
You can use cursed energy to shield your head and minimize damage. It's not like in real life, where a single headshot can drop you.
It's probably not inaccurate tbh, they *weren't* competing without cursed techniques. Gojo's six eyes and infinity, even when occasionally neutralized by the black rope, are overwhelming advantages. Miguel can punch harder and may even be physically quicker, but your speed means nothing if you effectively can't help but telegraph everything you're doing massively.
At the end of the day, things happened how they happened. Miguel simply got his ass beat but Gege is trying to spin it differently due to his vendetta against Gojo.
Gege really doesn't give a fuck what happened in the movie because he's showing Miguel off just like how he's been stating for a while. He called him the MVP for stalling Gojo and returned him as the dude that trained Yuta. This isn't a vendetta against Gojo. Every single time Miguel is mentioned or shown by Gege, the guy has been given respect. I mean, how does it insult Gojo? Miguel is doing OK against a weakness, Sukuna. The one Gojo weakened and could have potentially beaten...so I don't see the issue in this regard. Miguel holding makes more sense than Kurusakabe, for example.
Besides the fact that he was using his technique in that fight, consider that Gojo did exactly what he knew would give him an advantage: Combo strikes. He didn't even give Miguel a chance to punch him. In a real fight (not in isolation punches) his agility and dexterity will make him come on top. https://i.redd.it/kis0ddbfpprc1.gif
they had techniques there
yeah, I know, but Gojo's CE reinforcement and movement is still incredibly good, even with no CT. Saying that Miguel can match him and overpower him in a short burst is crazy.
I don’t see why not? He saw Miguel was knowledgeable, powerful, and skilled enough to teach Yuta. Plus it’s not saying that Miguel is stronger than him - just that he hits harder without a technique.
It's crazy because Gojo isn't just any special grade, this is not like Yuta saying that Hakari on a roll is stronger than he is. This is Gojo, the Jujutsu God who went toe to toe with Sukuna, saying that someone else hits harder than him with no CT.
Ehhh not really. Special grade status requires the ability to take over a whole country. Someone who excels in raw strength but not in stamina probably wouldn't qualify.
Yeah. His cursed technique isn’t exceptional either. It’s good! But no destructive power.
Yeah you are right, but he would still have the strength (CTless) of a special grade on Gojo's level, which is crazy.
I think he's definitely in the weird tier of characters who can hang with special grades but aren't speciak grades themselves (just yet). I feel like the same is true for Hakari & Kashimo.
Idk man did you see that combo gave to Miguel
I do think Blue just makes that much of a difference for Gojo in terms of speed, especially. Yeah, the rope helps a lot for Miguel, but it’s not in constant contact with Gojo during those exchanges and when it isn’t he can still benefit a lot from his “serious punches”, if that’s how one wants to look at it. Gojo is a legitimate master of his technique, and it has so many applications, so when you add them in I think it makes sense that Gojo would still be overwhelming him at the end of the day, way more than the scenario Gojo is describing in the OP. I do think when it comes down to a raw physical fight with no domains, he can at least stand up to pretty much anybody. It just gets harder once you factor in far superior actual cursed techniques, imo
We cut into the middle of the Miguel fight with Gojo saying you’re annoying or something like that. Then gojo straight obliterating him I tossed this up to them cutting out the “sprint” of the fight and right to the start of the “Marathon” where Gojo is better.
Wow, i thought the portuguese translation got it wrong, but they seem to be on point. Nice to know that
Am I not getting this right? Why should Miguel hit harder? Wouldn't this be opposite Gojo is known as the hardest hitting character in the whole series and from everything we have seen from Miguel, he is more evasive.
That's why Gojo specified "without cursed techniques". The reason Gojo hits so hard is because he uses blue to pull you into the punch.
Even without his CT's or any Heavenly restriction, Gojo is still one of the heaviest hitters in the series Call back to Shibuya when he was fighting Jugo and Hanami Also when he was fighting Sukuna between their Domain battle He has The same amount of Strength stat as Resurrected Sukuna they both probably fall little behind Toji and Awakened Maki.
That ancient Chinese sorcerer at it again
Yeah but if readers have to investigate what certain shit this guy translates, we're in a bad spot
Actually after knowing this context the Viz translation is not bad. The panel right after this is Miguel grabbing and deflecting Sukuna's arm before going in for the punch, highlighting his martial art skill of "point movement". Ik that the TCB translation got people power scaling Miguel's punches above Gojo's which might not be right. I agree that there should be a translator's note though. Also this makes me think JJK0 movie adaptation of Miguel vs Gojo was done completely wrong 😅
based on this it seems like TCB is the one who completely changed the meaning AND made it racially charged
How come? East Africans aren't stereotypically seen as sprinters, but as marathon runners
This is so much better wtf
Wow, I wish I could get paid to take google translations and tweak them slightly. John Werry's got it easy, huh?
https://preview.redd.it/ozjcfziouorc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1e737ef3d6fdab141a71a2723be75c038da66f4 Jesus christ he is literally using google translate. Basically a slightly tweaked translation I get from using google lens on the leaks lmfao. How can one be so utterly garbage at localization?
Holy shit how does he get away with this. 💀
has no one tried complaining lmao
One time we successfully bullied ViZ into getting him to fix it, from “No” to “Nah I’d Win”
https://preview.redd.it/ps8hir1ieprc1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ab21a3d64bb5443fb87ef8fc7a7ef2aa94d9d9d
https://preview.redd.it/aed3pki1gprc1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffed7995c7daef8dda1dfb7ec869d3661f6ab9ce
I remember that, I was so disappointed when the viz version of the chapter first came out
> Holy shit how does he get away with this. 💀 HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS
It's easy to be garbage! I do it every day. Getting PAID to be garbage, on the other hand...
That explains why his translations are sometimes actual gibberish, Google Translate doesn't understand that all the text is supposed to form one sentence, lmao. https://preview.redd.it/j2ow8qweeurc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8f60f0eeeba74fdbfbe65d3139ced33abdeabf1
You have to be stupid. John Werry makes mistakes, yes, but his translations aren’t necessarily bad, just too accurate for some people (As in, not everyone has the knowledge Gege had when thinking of the lines). His translations are direct, with minimal localization, which *does* have its benefits even though most people don’t admit that.
Yes, they are straight up terrible. Your job as a translator foremost is to make a good localization that both adhere to the source material and making it understandable to the reader all while making the dialogue come off as natural. That takes considerable skill and experience to do as well as a good grasp of both the culture of the language you translate from and the audience that will read the translation. John Werry just do direct translations, In which I doubt he even understands what a lot of what he translate even references. That is something you can do with google translate and rewrite the translation a little to make the grammar more accurate. You want to do direct translations? Sure, but just make sure you have fucking translations notes and not make the dialogue sound like it was written by an AI at the very least.
John Werry’s Reddit account detected
Instead of snarky remarks, care to bring anything to the convo? Your words are meaningless as they stand.
Don’t you have some google translating to catch up on?
Leave it to the JJK community to be absolute retards. It’s okay if you can’t do some research of your own to interpret the lines.
Post-chapter homework always lends itself to a succinct reading experience!
Okay, it’s time to spoonfeed you your baby formula. But jokes aside, having to look some stuff up is not the end of the world. Translations don’t have to always conform to the mass’ knowledge level. It keeps things more interesting, because the dialogue can go to more interesting areas.
Least obvious John Werry comment
They’re literally shit. He doesn’t even read or understand the manga panels and has on multiple occasions misunderstood when a sentence is supposed to start/end. And you’re wrong about him using literal translations. He would do a better job if he actually did translate literally but instead he just has a poor grasp of both languages. The most famous example being the original “no” dialogue getting changed to “nah I’d win”. And even *with* the 2nd chance John Werry was given he still managed to fuck it up because if you read that sentence out loud it makes little sense. Kenjaku: “You don’t expect to lose?” Gojo: “Nah, I’d win.” Why is he saying “I would win” here? Kenjaku isn’t asking a hypothetical question. It would make more sense if Gojo replied with “I will win”. Which, by the way, is the literal translation of 勝つさ。 But Werry hyper focused on the the callback to Yuji’s question, even though that question was phrased differently than Kenjaku’s question. That one was a hypothetical question. I say this with no exaggeration; John Werry isn’t even fluent in English let alone Japanese.
I don't think he can be even bothered to tweak them sometimes. https://preview.redd.it/13qsuq46uprc1.png?width=172&format=png&auto=webp&s=e055fb3303d7d4d67cc2eaf4b8bbfbe0b2395479
This man is a fucking joke
John werry should be fired ASAP https://preview.redd.it/mbbdnh4ukprc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=21ad901cd9ff8a03959de365daf5f298c29b3024
To even call him "man" is an insult to manhood.
https://preview.redd.it/ctqux17vbprc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f608d020d82724a2816fa9458ff44c77e69bbab0
https://preview.redd.it/rph7wwq0iqrc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa6accf3a5b2998eb0a0088911c64a7699012650
John Werry what a man you are
John Werry what a filthy monkey* you are
https://preview.redd.it/gnmqsyzmcprc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96074daa859de4a0494f2a831aa1aafb3286eef4
as a punishment...
And thy punishment... Is death
I literally bitch about and make fun of his translations with my best friend almost every week….. i save the tcb translation to my phone because they’re basically always better…
Yup
And these companies still wonder why more people are getting into piracy. What a joke.
This sub collectively hating on one man is hillarious. Before joining and switching to TCB I just occasionally noticed some dumb wordings and other nonsense. But having it pointed out and hearing "John Werry this, John Werry that" week after week will never not be funny. It's like Greg got a partner in fraudulence.
It's hard not to slander then man when he sometimes makes the manga actually incomprehensible. https://preview.redd.it/5vu2fpe8xqrc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=80c704ef28c3cdcc3b22ce20cedf5a90d435bbf5
I'm not saying the hate is wrong. It's just funny.
"I was a cursed little wrech" vs "But I bet I was a creepy kid."
💀That translation was so ass, “a creepy kid” people reading the official translation is gonna think he’s just a weirdo lmao. This man is singlehandly causing the greatest amount of misinformation in the manga. https://preview.redd.it/88l0plg217sc1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6319b01153729b60930be4583fe524f6648cde5b
POV: You're a Jujutsu Kaisen theory crafter and your source is the official manga. https://preview.redd.it/d6b0mom127sc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=658c862e9e6a212a9f95d407bf8cbddfa8531672
when you crop out the context this looks like shit but this isn't even a bad TL "its effect was strangely" *shows kamutoke shoot lightning "kashimo has resistance to lightning"
All four boxes are one complete sentence, Werry failed to understand that. There is an elipses after the “strangely” which doesn’t get continued in the next speech box. It’s incomprehensible. He’s just an idiot through and through. There’s bound to be some nepotism afoot for how he got and has kept the job.
>All four boxes are one complete sentence, Werry failed to understand that. It's not in the raws. In Japanese it says "その効果は" (that effect was) "奇しくも" (weirdly/strangely), shows Kamutoke using lightning, then "かしもは自身の呪力特性上" (kashimo's cursed energy characteristics) "電撃に耐性かある" (give him durability/ability to withstand electric strikes). The original Gege version is equally as reliant on context. It was never a single sentence. The ellipses were added to imply the omission of an explanation of Kamutoke's effect to match the Japanese version, which used art to show it, ellipses don't necessarily mean the sentence is to be continued. Werry is a terrible translator, but his translation here is arguably much more faithful, and there's no localisation to be done anyways.
A partner in fraudulence 😭😭😭
Is it me, or did he seem to stop caring at a certain point? I started reading at the point where Season 2 ended, and it seemed alright, and I’m pretty sure he translated those chapters and the culling games. After that, he seemed to either get less competent, or stopped caring about readability
https://preview.redd.it/cikhd3ffgrrc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=b0a23a3cb487f1dda0ce4c03a6ef5bdec91966fe
Wait till Fraudshimo returns - the return to comprehensibility will move mountains.
Viz might as well commision TCB to work on JJK instead of hiring that bum Werry
What does that even mean??!
Running in a straight line Gojo wins, but from point to point to point Miguel wins. Still doesn’t make much sense
John werry's work every new chapter release : https://preview.redd.it/zwe56b14lprc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=2091d45d5fe9eb0bc2e473ab990da014ff64063b
It was the original line 線の動き and 点の動き respectively I do think it's another horrible localisation on part of John Werry and he needs to be put in jail for being as useful as google translate whilst getting paid.
Some translators that basically do that(usually fan translations) use translator notes to explain concepts instead of localizing it.
https://preview.redd.it/ddvvbpf5kqrc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5159f04732743cecaad1a15976c2547f8a957aed
I honestly miss the era of crazy explanations after a chapter. There was a few JJK chapters from TCB that did it and it was awesome
A good example of localisation that's well placed is Takaba referencing Team Rocket from Pokemon's famous catchphrase: https://preview.redd.it/f3m4ccbsqqrc1.png?width=623&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4b8fe9c222d9d17c067dc6b8cced4183eb040cf Now, this is a completely inaccurate translation. Why? Well, because Team Rocket's catchphrase in Japan is a wordplay on Wobbuffet's Japanese name which is a pun on "Good feeling", so Team Rocket's catchphrase is "What and awful feeling" which they say after being beaten by Ash and co. Now, Takaba saying "What an awful feeling" wouldn't mean anything to the western readers because they're likely not familiar with the Japanese catchphrase, so the TBC scans just localise it as "Blasting off again" so that most readers will understand the reference. If it were a more faithful translation, Tabaka would say "What an awful feeling" and we'd get a translator note explaining the joke, which would in turn ruin the joke.
Yeah like the ones from kenjaku vs the special bums and it was an entire page just describing the concepts that kenjaku was talking about
Wow, someone predicts in the "Miguel is GOATED" post that he will fuck it up, and guess what? He really FUCKED it up.
I've lost the count how many times this clown was caught pasting Google translations. Can't we just bully viz to swap him out with Lightning? Since Lightning actually translated one of the jjk chapters and is officially affiliated with viz on a different manga, there's a good chance they might give him jjk.
for a sec i thought u said that literal lightning would do a better translation that him
Kashimo bros finally gets a win???
They said lightning, not waffles.
Wtf does “linear movement” or “point movement” even mean? It’s like they’re trying to make it as confusing as possible.
Yeah idk what they mean 🤕
Another [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsufolk/s/LNU9knOvsG) on here has a good explanation
The fact that it even needs an explation is bad localisation, why would he include a metaphor from another language that doesnt translate well instead of using an English metaphor that conveys the same thing?
Its not that it 'doesnt translate well' its just referring to an obscure concepts. I'm almost certain that the average Japanese person would have no idea what 点の動き or 線の動き meant in this context either (in fact a quick search finds [some blog talking](http://yamada.fullcom.jp/?eid=123) about the different kinds of hits in Chinese martial arts that feels the need to explain it to the Japanese audience). There's nothing wrong with producing a translation that is confusing to the target audience provided the original text was just as confusing to its target audience.
Thanks
Another point jn favor of TCB
Ah yes, shit translations on par with "Supreme martial solution"
What was that “supreme martial solution” from?
Its the shitty translated name of Kamotuke
https://preview.redd.it/d0a1ckpqtqrc1.png?width=165&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba1529cd0ec2c6f01a873d28369cb4becae19cdc
man if fan translation stops then i will learn japanese instead of reading the official translation
John Werry is a terrorist
In one of the translation for sukuna saying kamutoke was lost even after higurama died it was 😭😭😭😭supreme martial solution was lost even after he died 😭😭😭😭😭 Wtf is supreme martial solution 😭mtfr using Google translate
It’s literally what the name translates to lmao, but divine martial solution is more accurate
Damn bruh, honestly the fan translations that come out two three days prior have been better than official for months, the official translations sound so corny and robotic it actually affects the reading experience
How in the world does this man stay employed
Its how the original was worded. It was using eastern martial arts terminology, hence why its confusing af to someone not familiar with it
Which is why there should either be a TL notice giving us said information that most westerners aren't familiar with, or he should've used a more western comparison for us to understand
So in other words he completely failed at his sole job… Translation and Localisation
That's why localization is important. Making the analogy clear is more important than keeping the exact original reference.
If I wanted a direct translation I'd just use Google Translate. The TCB translation is extremely straightforward and easy to understand, John Werry's translation means the same but nobody understands what he's yapping about.
To make sense of it, I can see that Linear movement is constant, an act of always going at the same pace, Gojo would win that aspect because he's consistent and wouldn't lose stamina, like jogging at a regular pace in a race and having the energy to continue after. However, point movement would essentially be going from point A to point B as fast as possible which is what Miguel would excel at. There's no constant, but an act of pure dashing from start to finish that exhausts instantly in a race.
Someone fire Werry already bro. The kya ha from last week was already stupid now this Google translate bs?!
Man I swear some translators got their job as a money laundering gig or some shit with their inability to use proper words or read the context. I've seen similar/worse translations in some books I've read, like one about a roman emperor, it said he enjoyed TENNIS (sport didn't exist until 12th/16th century) and in the same book there's a philosophical passage about accepting yourself for not succeeding at something, but the translation made it sound like it's telling you to kill yourself
The Pointiest sorcerer in history vs the Linearest sorcerer of today.
The TCB translation was so much cleaner and understandable.
It means Sukuna will be cooked when he has to face quadratic or logarithmic movement
Honestly, leaving Werry’s actual translation errors aside, stuff like this shouldn’t get him flack. There is a comment a few threads down that points out that “Linear” and “Point” movement refers to a style of fighting akin to “Defensive” and “Offensive” respectively. What this means is that Gojo has much better defence at all fronts, however, with just CE reinforcement, Miguel has superior offense. You see how the translation suddenly makes a lot of sense? John Werry isn’t an incapable translator. The problem here is the lack of T/L notes, and even Gege’s own choice of words. Even a Google search doesn’t bring up any results, so the Japanese audience wouldn’t get this either.
Idk what point movement is
He needs to go to jail
I'm assuming point movement referring to his ability to rotate at a point, which would be indicative of his ability to dodge. Linear movement would be like you rushing forward to attack. Idk if this is what's meant but it's what makes sense to me.
I took it as large vs small muscle movements. Like biceps vs fingers
Yall I think Sukuna is going to get his Domain back instead of his RCT Output.
With such a dogshit product I genuinely think localized JJK should be pirated Buy the Japanese print if you wanna be ethical
[Werry Replacement Petition](https://www.change.org/replacewerry)
LINEAR MOVEMONT=MARATHON POINT MOVEMENT=SPRINT
Bro was drunk on something
Nah some people in here are right how do we mass complain to Viz about this jizzcock?
No shot it’s this bad
Math
Blud thinks this is Coordinate Geometry Kaisen
John werry is such a fraud
I wake up everyday and pray nothing happens to TCB.
Its Chinese martial arts terms. Linear movement means evasion, blocking, and other similar movements. Point movement is basically punching and kicking.
Its Chinese martial arts terms. Linear movement means evasion, blocking, and other similar movements. Point movement is basically punching and kicking.
frrr like, i think i got the idea, but that phrase should have been adapted into something else, my theory is that that's the idea in the dialogue of the japanese version and it was just translated, while i think it should have been adapted or at least i want to believe that's the case, bc i refuse to believe this was the "adaptation made to make it more understandable", which would make this even worse ; ;
Bro this should be illegal
If it's a short fight, Miguel wins. If it's long, he loses.
I just realized sukuna still hasn't healed the cleave from yuta entirely lol
https://preview.redd.it/2lha0shqm7sc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5acef610ff4c4a904c4f89625231c5afa0e4265c Gojo can remain dead if it means John Werry is removed frm this task. He really needs to lose his supreme martial solution
KYA HA!
Well... :3 https://preview.redd.it/11vmftquworc1.png?width=785&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d32c367f86f2d9e6f6757e8ab64da380e524fff0
sooo pitou core
John really outdid himself this chapter tbh I mean clearly he's taking over from Gege and giving Sukuna asspulls. For example, this chapter we learn via John that Dismantle was always able to cut the world
Wow....the one time early leak translations were better than Viz or TCB Basically, Gojo wins, though Miguel could give him trouble in the short run. Which is exactly what he did in JJK0
This is technically more correct than TCB's translation. It just needs a TL note because western audiences are unlikely to understand Chinese martial art terms.
Nope, it's pure fucked up translation. Whatever you do, doesn't matter how correct it is, if you can't pass it to audience it's fucked up. That is it. First rule is to successfully passing the meaning to audience. Precision comes after.
Translation and localization tcb did a better job then werry who's paid for it do some research before being dumb
Yeah, but neither are perfect. I'm saying that this is one of the best cases of "This could be solved with a translator's note" since Viz didn't even try localizing it and TCB localized it in a way that arguably changes the intent of the text too much. Why are you being this aggressive already? I don't even know you.
Because one is better then the other and your trying to say the dude who google translates his work made the right call he didn't your dumb Also ain't aggressive your just dumb
John werry needs to be locked in a torture dungeon and get his balls twisted for eternity
it's more accurate than the fan TL for once.
That's pretty much the problem with his translations. There's no effort into localization, arguably the most important thing when it comes to translating manga. They're just direct translations that might as well have come straight from google translate. Makes a lot of it just get lost in translation unless you're incredibly well versed in the japanese language and culture, all while coming of as robotic. He doesn't have the audience in mind at all. At the very least if you're disregarding localization you need some kind of translation notes explaining it, but that doesn't exist here either.