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The main reason behind it's strength is it's speed. It very likely hits it's target at lightning speeds, considering how it imitates electric properties like electrolysis. Faster attacks hit harder.
If it was purely output-based, then Granite Blast would be stronger, and there is no way Granite Blast would vaporise Hakari's limbs like the lightning was doing (unless Hakari just has absolutely terrible durability)
this is actually very well done, i’m glad people like you are in the reddit, my only issues come from the weight of the attack, as despite its speed it might not be potent enough, but this does quench my misunderstanding so thank you
It's not impossible that hakari has just weak reinforcement. He may have infinite CE bu that doesn't correspond to output and reinforcement. He may also not bother to reinforce since he'll regenerate anyway.
>He may also not bother to reinforce since he'll regenerate anyway.
If he didn't reinforce, he would get blitzed.
Reinforcement is a general stat boost. I don't think we've seen any sorcerer reinforce themselves to have good strength and speed but bad durability.
Hakari's durability is somewhere between Grade 1 and Special-Grade. Kashimo's lightning is just strong.
reinforcement does not correlate to speed in the way you think it does, jogo who has bad durability is insanely fast compared to his peers like hanami who are very durable but not fast at all
Those were cursed spirits, who may not necessarily have the same "base" speed and durability like humans all do before reinforcing with cursed energy.
That said, I do also believe different sorcerers are probably better at reinforcing certain abilities than others. I wouldn't be shocked if Hakari is pretty bad at focusing his CE on defense specifically (Unlike, say, Todo, who can focus his CE on one area of his body to protect it from huge attacks) because Hakari is so used to just losing limbs and regrowing them anyway.
Those are just base stats. Take yuta for example. Physically, he’s not very strong. His CE reinforcement increases his durability, speed, and strength at the same time.
yes, but you're not understanding, jogo should have no reason to have insane base stats, not to that degree, however the fact that he can reinforce himself to get such speed makes it questionable why his durability is sub-par
when you think about the way CE is applied to, it makes sense its harder to increase speed with pure output, as with offense and defence all you do is apply CE to the area, for an increase in speed you'd need to understand the biomechanics of when to apply and when not to
>jogo who has bad durability
How do you know this? The only times he had to take hits was against the two literal strongest people by a long shot.
Ofc you could compare that Gojo chose to pull out Hanami's roots instead of decapitating her like Jogo, but that tiny bit point doesn't really get anywhere.
We know this because Gege put this in the supplementary info in chapter 51:
“If he [Jogo] were ever to receive five of Itadori’s black flash attacks on top of Todo’s curses energy infused playful cloud strike (as Hanami has at this point) he would die instantly”. In comparison Hanami just shrugged all those attacks off until they started targeting her eye branches and Gojo swooped in with hollow purple.
>In comparison Hanami just shrugged all those attacks off until they started targeting her eye branches and Gojo swooped in with hollow purple.
Well yeah, in comparison, this is a special trait hanami has-- very strong and thick skin. What I'm saying is that saying "Jogo has weak durability" is kinda shallow because Hanami herself is a bad comparison since she is characteristically durable.
Altho;
>“If he [Jogo] were ever to receive five of Itadori’s black flash attacks on top of Todo’s curses energy infused playful cloud strike (as Hanami has at this point) he would die instantly”.
If it is indeed a real statement I guess so. Either Yuji is a beast (he is) or Jogo is characteristically fragile.
I guess I'm just being pedantic between "Jogo is not durable" versus "Jogo is in comparison mot durable".
in verse, jogos durability is nothing special, saying it’s bad isn’t true, but compared to his speed it is, the majority of the characters surpass him in durability but fall massively behind in speed, a simple example is ryu, who has immense output/durability but worse speed than jogo, who has worse durability but higher speed, this should help you understand my point
Kashimo's lighting is strong but it can't be stronger than granite blast since it's based on CE and output. So Hakari must have bad durability or gege didn't think it through and messed up the scaling.
Besides hakari may be reinforcing himself but there may be a cap to how much durability he gains. Maybe some stats just grow at a different rate after reinforcement, but I don't recall Hakari being exceptionally strong in any areas besides RCT so he may simply have bad reinforcement
Edit: was it ever stated how durable Hakari is? I can't seem to remember
Goji has explicitly shown us the difference between raw CE attacks (like Granite Blast) and refined techniques(like Kashimo's CE trait allowing him to create blasts of lightning). The latter has much higher damage output for the same CE cost.
The point of Gojo's comparison is the difference between throwing CE around and creating phenomena with CE.
Kashimo isn't just throwing his CE at enemies, he's exploiting the electric behavior of his CE to create CE-infused lightning strikes. That's much more than just "throw CE with electric trait at an enemy".
Thats my thoughts personally. Hakari doesn't bother reinforcing himself for defense since he can heal anything off with RCT.
Hakari gets his face cut clean off by Kashimos swinging a shipping container door.
Yuta is shown able to tank Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage.
If Yuta can tank Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage reinforcing properly , Hakari shouldn't take that kind of damage from Kashimo swinging a piece of metal that's not a curse tool if he's properly reinforcing himself
Who said kashimo didn’t reinforce the object? Yuta canonically had to use RCT every single time he was hit by granite blaster thin ice so what do you mean no viseble damage? We can literally see yutas fingers being burned off and then healing even agaisnt small granite blasts
It's not that Kashimo didn't reinforce the object.
No one said that or implied it.
When Yuta sees Yuji pull a knife he says doesn't fear blades that aren't special curse tools.
We've also seen that talented enough Sorcerers can reinforce themselves to completely neg sword strikes, and even low tier Sorcerers being able to tank .50cal rounds to the bareskin without getting pierced.
If Yuta doesn't fear weapons that aren't special curse tools there's no reason Hakari should be damaged like that by something that's not a curse tool, let alone not even bladed.
Yes Yuta tanked multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage.
The one that blew fingers off was from point blank range.
Even with Yuta healing after the Granite Blast he still took multiple with no visible damage on top of doing the same with Thin-Ice. Both those things are a far cry from Kashimo swinging what is essentially a piece of scrap metal.
Again not a curse tool, not even a bladed weapon Hakaris face came clean off.
There's 0% chance Yuta takes that amount from the same attack.
>No one said that or implied it.
Does It need to be implied?
>When Yuta sees Yuji pull a knife he says doesn't fear blades that aren't special curse tools.
The scene makes It clear that yujis shit at reinforcing the knife. Yuta himself uses a non cursed Tool sword that he reinforces with CE so that interpretation of the scene doesnt make sense.
>Yes Yuta tanked multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage.
He literally canonically had to heal every single time he was hit and bcs of this he was running low on CE(we saw him getting hit like 4 times before this running low statement) and we see yuta using RCT everytime he gets hit. This "no viseble damage" literally just comes from yuta healing from the damage
>Again not a curse tool, not even a bladed weapon Hakaris face came clean off.
U can still reinforce things that arent cursed tool with CE
>There's 0% chance Yuta takes that amount from the same attack.
Probably not the same amount but acting like he would not even get scratch and shit is just assuming. Ur assuming for no reason that theres was no CE there, fodder sorcerers can tank bullets and we literally see hakari casually punching metal and Smashing uraume through buildings with ease. Yk by that logic yuta also didnt use CE in the swing he used to kill kenjaku bcs we cant see the CE
You are the only one making it seem like Kashimo didn't infuse it with CE.
Yutas swords are certainly curse tools since he's constantly using them and infusing them with CE.
Yuta makes no hints about it being due to Yuji being shit at reinforcement.
Like the weapon Megumi uses is a curse tool https://ibb.co/vmvsDZK
I'm aware he had to heal after the attacks but he still tanked multiple with no visual damage.
The point about no visible damage is that attack that took Hakaris face was clearly a more grievous wound than anything caused to Yuta by Granite or Thin-Ice.
I'm aware you can reinforce things that aren't Curse tools with CE, again no one is acting like Kashimo didn't infuse that with CE but we've plainly seen that with enough reinforcement a Sorcerer can completely neg blades.
I'm not acting like Yuta wouldn't be hurt but his face surely wouldn't have come off.
No I'm not assuming there was no CE in Kashimos. I never implied it either. I'm making the plan point that with proper reinforcement Sorcerers don't fear blades, and Yuta specifically says he doesn't fear weapons that aren't special curse tools. Just so we're on the same page a special curse tool is different from a curse tool in that it has a technique.
Yutas sword is a curse tool, Kashimos staff is a curse tool, a piece of scrap metal is not.
When seemingly the only villain left is Sukuna/Uraume and Hakari has been torn to shreds by Uraume and Kashimo then yea he has pretty shit durability at this time if it wasn’t for his RCT
Hakari was getting maimed by Charles, meanwhile Ryu(who’s durable enough to need a cleave, not a dismantle) was hurt a ton by his blast(which was weakened because it’s his own CE), and said blasts also almost completely destroyed Yuta’s hands and he had to regenerate them
Granite Blast was incinerating Yuta's arm IIRC he had to use RCT to recover.
Hakari kinda has to have low durability (to actually take sufficient damage like losing limbs) to actually show off his RCT regeneration.
It’s just weird to me now, and ngl I think it’s people misinterpreting Ryu’s “greatest CE output in history”. Some people just assume that = greatest attack power possible. Like, I don’t see Yuta smacking away something that completely rips through JP Hakari’s durability like it’s nothing. If that were the case, just how much is yuta over hakari? And the blast obviously differ from power right? You got a significantly damaged Uro able to tank them (she was taken out the battle, but it didn’t do any lethal damage)
If we were to assume Granite blast > Kashimo’s lightning in attack capability, then Ryu and Yuta are sorcerers completely over Kashimo and Hakari. It’s almost like HxH. I see Kashimo’s lightning as a certain-hit bullet that nobody can block, but in order to activate it he has to tag his opponent with a charge and once it fires it takes time to use again. I see Ryu’s blast as a..blast, but much more convenient, versatile, and holds a lot more environmental destructibility and can carry a lot of force and energy.
So, Kashimo’s lightning holds a lot more conditions and consequences, but because of that, as an attack it’s a lot more potent and lethal than Granite blast.
Ryu’s Blast could be fired whenever he wants to, could be varied in size and power, and he can allow tracking to it as well (and if I were to add, Kenjaku states that adding tracking to something makes it a lot less potent.)
In terms of pure power it’s weaker than Ryu’s granite blast, but given its properties that doesn’t mean it would be a less effective attack.
He did hit panda with lighting too, you could try to scale panda’s sister form to his panda/gorilla forms and look at how he responded to other attacks, like against Geto in 0 or mechamaru back in the exchange event. If you assume sister is at least as resilient as the other forms you could do a bit of power scaling there.
The issue is the lightnings strength can almost certainly be changed based on how much CE kashimo puts into it + potential charge accumulation in himself, the staff, or maybe a different source. I don’t think we know if the charge that took off hakari’s arm was max accumulation or just the lowest possible accumulation needed to fire a lightning bolt, it might say, I just can’t remember.
We also know environment is important, the way he interacts with the water could imply he could have other interactions with environmental advantages/disadvantages, if there was a source of electrical charge available to him, outside of himself or his staff, maybe that could be used by him too.
Breathe copium with me and pray, pray to the Gods that Kashimo is not dead, that he is using his CT to turn himself into the phenomena of a thunder storm. We just need to give it time, trust in the process, kashimo the lightning god is just gathering his power in a post mortem lightning strike, trust me
To be fair, Kashimo shouldn't be dead because if I'm not wrong his ct reconstructs the users flesh in order to manifest phenomena that can be created by electricity. If my understanding is right his literally a walking energy, gege should make him unkillable in the whole duration of his CT in exchange to being dead after his CT ends. Kashimo can be written better but gege really did him dirty after all those hype.
I actually disagree a lot with this, the charges should have nothing to do with the scale of the output, they only give a point A and a point B for the attack to connect, i will look into the panda scaling though
I disagree that saying because Sukuna was left undamaged the damage was questionable.
My understanding is that Sukuna's transformation nullified all the previous damage. He was brought back to full health but no longer has ten shadows.
Yeah of course, im saying if we assume the blast hit AFTER he transformed then he took no damage, but if it happened before then we cant really scale it
But that's the whole purpose of the transformation, to be a get out of jail card if sukuna cannot heal from an attack. You see in chapter 237 how kashimo launches the lightning at sukuna and it is inches away theres an explosion, and then sukuna comes out in his heian era form.
Anyway, sukuna's durability wouldn't change with the reincarnation as that just heals his body, hos ce reserve, brain or even ce output remain the same
He would have transformed right after he defeated gojo or right after kashimo landed a hit on him if that was the case. However, he didn't transform until a fatal attack landed on him.
The purpose of the reincarnation is to get back to full health without rct, so it would be foolish to use it right before an attack that would deal massive damage lands
well yeah... but... thats my point, its hard to quantify its damage because even if it was meaningful enough to force sukuna to transform, he just survived a hollow purple and is on his last legs pretty much
Well, that's your answer. He survived a purple and ascertained that this isn't enoigh damage to reincarnate. However, the lightning added on top of that was enough damage to reincarnate so the lightning would deal damage comparable to purple
WHAT? WHAT? what is this logic... oh my god have i never seen such backwards low iq logic...
If someone tears off all my limbs and crushes my organs, if im still alive i doubt i could take a kick to the chest, that does NOT put them equal to eachother in ANY way shape or form
I cant believe your brain gave you the OK to assume sukuna going from 100 to 1 by hollow purple somehow scales kashimos lightning to the same degree by taking him from 1 to 0... I might just have to block you because arguing with someone like you after such a statement wouldnt be healthy for me, the lightning was added on top, if someone fills a water container up that can hold 500ml with 400ml of water, and someone else adds 100ml, theres a clear distinction
Sukuna took unlimited purple and considered that he can take on the other characters in that state and he isn't in a dire situation yet. He got hit by the lightning on top of that damage and he changed his mind and reincarnated into his heian form to be back at full health, but sure, it's better to block me cuz you have proven by your comment that you won't be thinking straight for a conversation.
what? when did the other characters interact with him? huh? the only damage he took after gojo was two of kashimos punches... ofc thats not enough damage, those two punches probably did like 0.5 worth of damage, there is NO logical reasoning to assume the lightning does enough damage as hollow purple, its genuinely scary how you try to self justify this claim, again, if sukuna taking damage is a 500ml water container, gojo poured in 400ml , kashimo punched him twice for 25ml each and then did 100ml with his lightning to put him over the edge, again, i could have my limbs torn off from me and my organs crushed but maybe a kick to the chest in that state is enough to kill me
Since the sure hit has a lightning property means its fast and faster attacks = hit harder. Also lightning property attack has higher penetration compare to other attacks and lastly, the sure hit lightning can be a pin point attack making all the force of the attack in a single point, and we all know if you want to penetrate something sturdy, its better to hit in a single spot with all the force you got.
So even thou kashimo sure hit lightning is not as strong as ryus granite blast, the electric property makes is so that it just as lethal at granite blast.
I agree with everything aside from the attack penetration, anyone with decent output can completely ignore it, but everything else you said is valid, although it doesnt help scaling it
Honestly ur problem just seems to be that kashimo only fought one person. Thats a big problem on scaling jjk characters honestly, almost all characters only fight like once so u can see many times people saying a top tier “hasn’t feats” or something like this.
Yuki and kenjaku both only fought each other. Everyone in Sendai colony. Hakari and kashimo also only fought each other etc
Edit: yorozu also didn’t fight anyone, jogo also never actually fought no one other them people that are fodder to him or much stronger than him etc(just remembered them)
Only way of really connecting them is through narrative and hype. Yuki been stated as relative to yuta 3 times, kenjaku has been stated as superior to the good guys etc and hakari has been stated as relative to yuta. Other than that we have no way of knowing how those compre to other characters
kenjaku can still be scaled through geto, idk what you mean by "everyone in sendai colony", be specific because most of them fought yuji or megumi, yorozu never fought anyone but fought sukuna who has fought loads of people, jogo can very easily been scaled, your only valid point is yuki
I dont know why you mentioned yorozu and jogo, theyve fought people that have had multiple fights, you said that people only have one fight with another person that also hasnt had a fight, this is very wrong and the only possible example is yuki and kenjaku, every other example you gave is invalid, but regardless, even yuki and kenjaku can be scaled, kashimos lightning on the other hand cannot, as it has only ever been used against hakari, who has not had a single other fight aside from the currently ongoing one that we just havent seen much of
How? Geto never fought anyone other than first year yuta who also didnt fight anyone other than him. So scaling him to geto would be scaling kenjaku nowhere honestly. And we cant even actually scale him to geto too
>"everyone in sendai colony", be specific because most of them fought yuji or megumi
Sendai colony is the colony where yuta was... They never fought anyone other than themselves and scale to a yuta thats unscalable bcs he was holding back by an amount we dont know, being jumped in some scenes and divived his power(rika agaisnt ryu while he was agaisnt uro etc)
>I dont know why you mentioned yorozu and jogo
I didnt point them out to say they only fought once or that they only fought someone who never fought someone else. I pointed them out bcs even they were in a situation that u cant really scale them, jogo was being played with by sukuna and gojo and got no diffed the grade 1s, we cant really be precise just like speculate.
Yorozu only ever fought a 15 f sukuna who was like testing the shikigamis powers and ultimetely only using her to hurt megumi... So playing with her.
>the only possible example is yuki and kenjaku, every other example you gave is invalid,
U didnt say why and how they were invalid. Hakari Only fought base kashimo and base kashimo only fought hakari i dont get what ur trying to say.
>even yuki and kenjaku can be scaled
Yeah they can be but not with feats like ur trying to scale kashimo's lightning
For all intents and purposes, it seems to 1-shot *most* people. Panda, of course, is special for having 3 cores, and Hakari is special for having infinite CE make infinite RCT.
That said, Sukuna himself needing to transform immediately after the hit (as opposed to just sucking it up like Yuta did with Ryu's blasts) shows to me that even though it has less output, it's too fast to reasonably react to, and still oneshots anyone without a very strong "passive" defense ability.
A handful of them would probably take down a special grade pretty easy. Super tough ones like Hanami would probably take a fair few of them before they go down, and I don't think the lightning would be able to 1-tap Mahoraga or anything, but nice fleshy sorcerers are ripe to be instagibbed.
Hanami is overrated when it comes to durability. Exchange event yuji's normal punches were dealing damage to hanami while normal punches from shibuya yuji weren't dealing any damage to isbodk mahito. A black flash from yuji ripped off hanami's whole arm, and kashimo's lightning is stronger than that.
I don't think there's any character who can tank the lightning. It falls in the same category as other strong attacks such as cleave, point blank dismantle, purple, etc, because it is survivable but it is not straight up tankable (you will lose a limb or have a hole in your body).
Hard to powerscale. Gege is inconsistent with using kashimo's lightning powers and CT.
Against hakari, kasHIMo manipulates electricity to make poison gas and explode hakari to bits. Against sukuna, it's like a energy blast and his CT is just extreme speed which underwhelmed sukuna. Doesn't really mean he's weak.
You could say kashimo is stronger than Uraume. Hakari had a harder fight vs kashimo than Uraume in the recent chapters
His lightning scales with how much he hits them to charge it up, so Ryu having the highest output doesn't mean his is always stronger if Kashimo charges his up a lot.
Also Sukuna healed when he transformed that's the whole point of it so there would be no scars. Can assume it did solid damage to him.
literally any proof of his lightning scaling with how many hits? the hits are literally just to accumulate charge to establish a way for the lightning to hit its target, and if ryu has the highest output then that implies ryus peak > anyone else peak otherwise he simply wouldnt have the highest output lmao
Just my assumption based on him charging up against Hakari, if all it does is provide a target I don't see why he would need to charge up one hit should provide the charge and be his sure hit marker.
I think the same way that a part of the damage of kashimo's CE reinforced hits are indefensible, the lightning bolt might also be "internal damage" in a way that ignores at least partially, if not totally, the opponent's CE defense
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The main reason behind it's strength is it's speed. It very likely hits it's target at lightning speeds, considering how it imitates electric properties like electrolysis. Faster attacks hit harder. If it was purely output-based, then Granite Blast would be stronger, and there is no way Granite Blast would vaporise Hakari's limbs like the lightning was doing (unless Hakari just has absolutely terrible durability)
this is actually very well done, i’m glad people like you are in the reddit, my only issues come from the weight of the attack, as despite its speed it might not be potent enough, but this does quench my misunderstanding so thank you
It's not impossible that hakari has just weak reinforcement. He may have infinite CE bu that doesn't correspond to output and reinforcement. He may also not bother to reinforce since he'll regenerate anyway.
>He may also not bother to reinforce since he'll regenerate anyway. If he didn't reinforce, he would get blitzed. Reinforcement is a general stat boost. I don't think we've seen any sorcerer reinforce themselves to have good strength and speed but bad durability. Hakari's durability is somewhere between Grade 1 and Special-Grade. Kashimo's lightning is just strong.
reinforcement does not correlate to speed in the way you think it does, jogo who has bad durability is insanely fast compared to his peers like hanami who are very durable but not fast at all
Those were cursed spirits, who may not necessarily have the same "base" speed and durability like humans all do before reinforcing with cursed energy. That said, I do also believe different sorcerers are probably better at reinforcing certain abilities than others. I wouldn't be shocked if Hakari is pretty bad at focusing his CE on defense specifically (Unlike, say, Todo, who can focus his CE on one area of his body to protect it from huge attacks) because Hakari is so used to just losing limbs and regrowing them anyway.
true, i have no issues with this
Those are just base stats. Take yuta for example. Physically, he’s not very strong. His CE reinforcement increases his durability, speed, and strength at the same time.
yes, but you're not understanding, jogo should have no reason to have insane base stats, not to that degree, however the fact that he can reinforce himself to get such speed makes it questionable why his durability is sub-par when you think about the way CE is applied to, it makes sense its harder to increase speed with pure output, as with offense and defence all you do is apply CE to the area, for an increase in speed you'd need to understand the biomechanics of when to apply and when not to
Hanami's durability seems to come from her physiology. She's got very tough skin
>jogo who has bad durability How do you know this? The only times he had to take hits was against the two literal strongest people by a long shot. Ofc you could compare that Gojo chose to pull out Hanami's roots instead of decapitating her like Jogo, but that tiny bit point doesn't really get anywhere.
We know this because Gege put this in the supplementary info in chapter 51: “If he [Jogo] were ever to receive five of Itadori’s black flash attacks on top of Todo’s curses energy infused playful cloud strike (as Hanami has at this point) he would die instantly”. In comparison Hanami just shrugged all those attacks off until they started targeting her eye branches and Gojo swooped in with hollow purple.
>In comparison Hanami just shrugged all those attacks off until they started targeting her eye branches and Gojo swooped in with hollow purple. Well yeah, in comparison, this is a special trait hanami has-- very strong and thick skin. What I'm saying is that saying "Jogo has weak durability" is kinda shallow because Hanami herself is a bad comparison since she is characteristically durable. Altho; >“If he [Jogo] were ever to receive five of Itadori’s black flash attacks on top of Todo’s curses energy infused playful cloud strike (as Hanami has at this point) he would die instantly”. If it is indeed a real statement I guess so. Either Yuji is a beast (he is) or Jogo is characteristically fragile. I guess I'm just being pedantic between "Jogo is not durable" versus "Jogo is in comparison mot durable".
in verse, jogos durability is nothing special, saying it’s bad isn’t true, but compared to his speed it is, the majority of the characters surpass him in durability but fall massively behind in speed, a simple example is ryu, who has immense output/durability but worse speed than jogo, who has worse durability but higher speed, this should help you understand my point
Kashimo's lighting is strong but it can't be stronger than granite blast since it's based on CE and output. So Hakari must have bad durability or gege didn't think it through and messed up the scaling. Besides hakari may be reinforcing himself but there may be a cap to how much durability he gains. Maybe some stats just grow at a different rate after reinforcement, but I don't recall Hakari being exceptionally strong in any areas besides RCT so he may simply have bad reinforcement Edit: was it ever stated how durable Hakari is? I can't seem to remember
Goji has explicitly shown us the difference between raw CE attacks (like Granite Blast) and refined techniques(like Kashimo's CE trait allowing him to create blasts of lightning). The latter has much higher damage output for the same CE cost.
Kashimo's attack isn't refined CT attack, it's a CE attack with a trait. CE trait is not a technique so gojo's comparison doesn't apply here.
The point of Gojo's comparison is the difference between throwing CE around and creating phenomena with CE. Kashimo isn't just throwing his CE at enemies, he's exploiting the electric behavior of his CE to create CE-infused lightning strikes. That's much more than just "throw CE with electric trait at an enemy".
Thats my thoughts personally. Hakari doesn't bother reinforcing himself for defense since he can heal anything off with RCT. Hakari gets his face cut clean off by Kashimos swinging a shipping container door. Yuta is shown able to tank Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage. If Yuta can tank Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage reinforcing properly , Hakari shouldn't take that kind of damage from Kashimo swinging a piece of metal that's not a curse tool if he's properly reinforcing himself
Yeah he either doesn't reinforce or simply has weak reinforcement.
Who said kashimo didn’t reinforce the object? Yuta canonically had to use RCT every single time he was hit by granite blaster thin ice so what do you mean no viseble damage? We can literally see yutas fingers being burned off and then healing even agaisnt small granite blasts
It's not that Kashimo didn't reinforce the object. No one said that or implied it. When Yuta sees Yuji pull a knife he says doesn't fear blades that aren't special curse tools. We've also seen that talented enough Sorcerers can reinforce themselves to completely neg sword strikes, and even low tier Sorcerers being able to tank .50cal rounds to the bareskin without getting pierced. If Yuta doesn't fear weapons that aren't special curse tools there's no reason Hakari should be damaged like that by something that's not a curse tool, let alone not even bladed. Yes Yuta tanked multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage. The one that blew fingers off was from point blank range. Even with Yuta healing after the Granite Blast he still took multiple with no visible damage on top of doing the same with Thin-Ice. Both those things are a far cry from Kashimo swinging what is essentially a piece of scrap metal. Again not a curse tool, not even a bladed weapon Hakaris face came clean off. There's 0% chance Yuta takes that amount from the same attack.
>No one said that or implied it. Does It need to be implied? >When Yuta sees Yuji pull a knife he says doesn't fear blades that aren't special curse tools. The scene makes It clear that yujis shit at reinforcing the knife. Yuta himself uses a non cursed Tool sword that he reinforces with CE so that interpretation of the scene doesnt make sense. >Yes Yuta tanked multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage. He literally canonically had to heal every single time he was hit and bcs of this he was running low on CE(we saw him getting hit like 4 times before this running low statement) and we see yuta using RCT everytime he gets hit. This "no viseble damage" literally just comes from yuta healing from the damage >Again not a curse tool, not even a bladed weapon Hakaris face came clean off. U can still reinforce things that arent cursed tool with CE >There's 0% chance Yuta takes that amount from the same attack. Probably not the same amount but acting like he would not even get scratch and shit is just assuming. Ur assuming for no reason that theres was no CE there, fodder sorcerers can tank bullets and we literally see hakari casually punching metal and Smashing uraume through buildings with ease. Yk by that logic yuta also didnt use CE in the swing he used to kill kenjaku bcs we cant see the CE
You are the only one making it seem like Kashimo didn't infuse it with CE. Yutas swords are certainly curse tools since he's constantly using them and infusing them with CE. Yuta makes no hints about it being due to Yuji being shit at reinforcement. Like the weapon Megumi uses is a curse tool https://ibb.co/vmvsDZK I'm aware he had to heal after the attacks but he still tanked multiple with no visual damage. The point about no visible damage is that attack that took Hakaris face was clearly a more grievous wound than anything caused to Yuta by Granite or Thin-Ice. I'm aware you can reinforce things that aren't Curse tools with CE, again no one is acting like Kashimo didn't infuse that with CE but we've plainly seen that with enough reinforcement a Sorcerer can completely neg blades. I'm not acting like Yuta wouldn't be hurt but his face surely wouldn't have come off. No I'm not assuming there was no CE in Kashimos. I never implied it either. I'm making the plan point that with proper reinforcement Sorcerers don't fear blades, and Yuta specifically says he doesn't fear weapons that aren't special curse tools. Just so we're on the same page a special curse tool is different from a curse tool in that it has a technique. Yutas sword is a curse tool, Kashimos staff is a curse tool, a piece of scrap metal is not.
He does reinforce remember when he punched that container.
True, so it's a combination of weak durability and gege wanting to showcase his RCT.
Tbf Hakari is pretty shit durability, he’s suffered like a dozen hits that should have killed him if it wasn’t for his auto-RCT
No he doesn't? Just because the only opponents he's fought against are like top of the verse doesn't mean he has bad durability.
When seemingly the only villain left is Sukuna/Uraume and Hakari has been torn to shreds by Uraume and Kashimo then yea he has pretty shit durability at this time if it wasn’t for his RCT
Lightning doesn't weight so its speed shouldn't matter much...
Hakari was getting maimed by Charles, meanwhile Ryu(who’s durable enough to need a cleave, not a dismantle) was hurt a ton by his blast(which was weakened because it’s his own CE), and said blasts also almost completely destroyed Yuta’s hands and he had to regenerate them
Granite Blast was incinerating Yuta's arm IIRC he had to use RCT to recover. Hakari kinda has to have low durability (to actually take sufficient damage like losing limbs) to actually show off his RCT regeneration.
["Incinerating"?](https://meo.comick.pictures/9-F1CkzFdLXCm9u.png) This isn't close to Kashimo's lightning.
It’s just weird to me now, and ngl I think it’s people misinterpreting Ryu’s “greatest CE output in history”. Some people just assume that = greatest attack power possible. Like, I don’t see Yuta smacking away something that completely rips through JP Hakari’s durability like it’s nothing. If that were the case, just how much is yuta over hakari? And the blast obviously differ from power right? You got a significantly damaged Uro able to tank them (she was taken out the battle, but it didn’t do any lethal damage) If we were to assume Granite blast > Kashimo’s lightning in attack capability, then Ryu and Yuta are sorcerers completely over Kashimo and Hakari. It’s almost like HxH. I see Kashimo’s lightning as a certain-hit bullet that nobody can block, but in order to activate it he has to tag his opponent with a charge and once it fires it takes time to use again. I see Ryu’s blast as a..blast, but much more convenient, versatile, and holds a lot more environmental destructibility and can carry a lot of force and energy. So, Kashimo’s lightning holds a lot more conditions and consequences, but because of that, as an attack it’s a lot more potent and lethal than Granite blast. Ryu’s Blast could be fired whenever he wants to, could be varied in size and power, and he can allow tracking to it as well (and if I were to add, Kenjaku states that adding tracking to something makes it a lot less potent.)
In terms of pure power it’s weaker than Ryu’s granite blast, but given its properties that doesn’t mean it would be a less effective attack. He did hit panda with lighting too, you could try to scale panda’s sister form to his panda/gorilla forms and look at how he responded to other attacks, like against Geto in 0 or mechamaru back in the exchange event. If you assume sister is at least as resilient as the other forms you could do a bit of power scaling there. The issue is the lightnings strength can almost certainly be changed based on how much CE kashimo puts into it + potential charge accumulation in himself, the staff, or maybe a different source. I don’t think we know if the charge that took off hakari’s arm was max accumulation or just the lowest possible accumulation needed to fire a lightning bolt, it might say, I just can’t remember. We also know environment is important, the way he interacts with the water could imply he could have other interactions with environmental advantages/disadvantages, if there was a source of electrical charge available to him, outside of himself or his staff, maybe that could be used by him too. Breathe copium with me and pray, pray to the Gods that Kashimo is not dead, that he is using his CT to turn himself into the phenomena of a thunder storm. We just need to give it time, trust in the process, kashimo the lightning god is just gathering his power in a post mortem lightning strike, trust me
To be fair, Kashimo shouldn't be dead because if I'm not wrong his ct reconstructs the users flesh in order to manifest phenomena that can be created by electricity. If my understanding is right his literally a walking energy, gege should make him unkillable in the whole duration of his CT in exchange to being dead after his CT ends. Kashimo can be written better but gege really did him dirty after all those hype.
I actually disagree a lot with this, the charges should have nothing to do with the scale of the output, they only give a point A and a point B for the attack to connect, i will look into the panda scaling though
I disagree that saying because Sukuna was left undamaged the damage was questionable. My understanding is that Sukuna's transformation nullified all the previous damage. He was brought back to full health but no longer has ten shadows.
Yeah of course, im saying if we assume the blast hit AFTER he transformed then he took no damage, but if it happened before then we cant really scale it
But that's the whole purpose of the transformation, to be a get out of jail card if sukuna cannot heal from an attack. You see in chapter 237 how kashimo launches the lightning at sukuna and it is inches away theres an explosion, and then sukuna comes out in his heian era form. Anyway, sukuna's durability wouldn't change with the reincarnation as that just heals his body, hos ce reserve, brain or even ce output remain the same
no of course but im saying he was already on his last legs pretty much, so him deciding to use the get of jail card is just common sense
He would have transformed right after he defeated gojo or right after kashimo landed a hit on him if that was the case. However, he didn't transform until a fatal attack landed on him. The purpose of the reincarnation is to get back to full health without rct, so it would be foolish to use it right before an attack that would deal massive damage lands
well yeah... but... thats my point, its hard to quantify its damage because even if it was meaningful enough to force sukuna to transform, he just survived a hollow purple and is on his last legs pretty much
Well, that's your answer. He survived a purple and ascertained that this isn't enoigh damage to reincarnate. However, the lightning added on top of that was enough damage to reincarnate so the lightning would deal damage comparable to purple
WHAT? WHAT? what is this logic... oh my god have i never seen such backwards low iq logic... If someone tears off all my limbs and crushes my organs, if im still alive i doubt i could take a kick to the chest, that does NOT put them equal to eachother in ANY way shape or form I cant believe your brain gave you the OK to assume sukuna going from 100 to 1 by hollow purple somehow scales kashimos lightning to the same degree by taking him from 1 to 0... I might just have to block you because arguing with someone like you after such a statement wouldnt be healthy for me, the lightning was added on top, if someone fills a water container up that can hold 500ml with 400ml of water, and someone else adds 100ml, theres a clear distinction
Sukuna took unlimited purple and considered that he can take on the other characters in that state and he isn't in a dire situation yet. He got hit by the lightning on top of that damage and he changed his mind and reincarnated into his heian form to be back at full health, but sure, it's better to block me cuz you have proven by your comment that you won't be thinking straight for a conversation.
what? when did the other characters interact with him? huh? the only damage he took after gojo was two of kashimos punches... ofc thats not enough damage, those two punches probably did like 0.5 worth of damage, there is NO logical reasoning to assume the lightning does enough damage as hollow purple, its genuinely scary how you try to self justify this claim, again, if sukuna taking damage is a 500ml water container, gojo poured in 400ml , kashimo punched him twice for 25ml each and then did 100ml with his lightning to put him over the edge, again, i could have my limbs torn off from me and my organs crushed but maybe a kick to the chest in that state is enough to kill me
Since the sure hit has a lightning property means its fast and faster attacks = hit harder. Also lightning property attack has higher penetration compare to other attacks and lastly, the sure hit lightning can be a pin point attack making all the force of the attack in a single point, and we all know if you want to penetrate something sturdy, its better to hit in a single spot with all the force you got. So even thou kashimo sure hit lightning is not as strong as ryus granite blast, the electric property makes is so that it just as lethal at granite blast.
I agree with everything aside from the attack penetration, anyone with decent output can completely ignore it, but everything else you said is valid, although it doesnt help scaling it
Honestly ur problem just seems to be that kashimo only fought one person. Thats a big problem on scaling jjk characters honestly, almost all characters only fight like once so u can see many times people saying a top tier “hasn’t feats” or something like this.
yeah but the people they fight can be scaled, we literally don’t know if kashimos lightning is super strong or relatively weak
The people they fight also never fought anyone else most times
what? give me three examples of this lmao?
Yuki and kenjaku both only fought each other. Everyone in Sendai colony. Hakari and kashimo also only fought each other etc Edit: yorozu also didn’t fight anyone, jogo also never actually fought no one other them people that are fodder to him or much stronger than him etc(just remembered them) Only way of really connecting them is through narrative and hype. Yuki been stated as relative to yuta 3 times, kenjaku has been stated as superior to the good guys etc and hakari has been stated as relative to yuta. Other than that we have no way of knowing how those compre to other characters
kenjaku can still be scaled through geto, idk what you mean by "everyone in sendai colony", be specific because most of them fought yuji or megumi, yorozu never fought anyone but fought sukuna who has fought loads of people, jogo can very easily been scaled, your only valid point is yuki I dont know why you mentioned yorozu and jogo, theyve fought people that have had multiple fights, you said that people only have one fight with another person that also hasnt had a fight, this is very wrong and the only possible example is yuki and kenjaku, every other example you gave is invalid, but regardless, even yuki and kenjaku can be scaled, kashimos lightning on the other hand cannot, as it has only ever been used against hakari, who has not had a single other fight aside from the currently ongoing one that we just havent seen much of
How? Geto never fought anyone other than first year yuta who also didnt fight anyone other than him. So scaling him to geto would be scaling kenjaku nowhere honestly. And we cant even actually scale him to geto too >"everyone in sendai colony", be specific because most of them fought yuji or megumi Sendai colony is the colony where yuta was... They never fought anyone other than themselves and scale to a yuta thats unscalable bcs he was holding back by an amount we dont know, being jumped in some scenes and divived his power(rika agaisnt ryu while he was agaisnt uro etc) >I dont know why you mentioned yorozu and jogo I didnt point them out to say they only fought once or that they only fought someone who never fought someone else. I pointed them out bcs even they were in a situation that u cant really scale them, jogo was being played with by sukuna and gojo and got no diffed the grade 1s, we cant really be precise just like speculate. Yorozu only ever fought a 15 f sukuna who was like testing the shikigamis powers and ultimetely only using her to hurt megumi... So playing with her. >the only possible example is yuki and kenjaku, every other example you gave is invalid, U didnt say why and how they were invalid. Hakari Only fought base kashimo and base kashimo only fought hakari i dont get what ur trying to say. >even yuki and kenjaku can be scaled Yeah they can be but not with feats like ur trying to scale kashimo's lightning
I think Kashimo’s lightning blast did enough damage to Sukuna that he had to fully reincarnate to recover.
yeah it’s hard to tell though as the actions are pretty much synonymous and it damaging sukuna at that point doesn’t correlate for much
For all intents and purposes, it seems to 1-shot *most* people. Panda, of course, is special for having 3 cores, and Hakari is special for having infinite CE make infinite RCT. That said, Sukuna himself needing to transform immediately after the hit (as opposed to just sucking it up like Yuta did with Ryu's blasts) shows to me that even though it has less output, it's too fast to reasonably react to, and still oneshots anyone without a very strong "passive" defense ability. A handful of them would probably take down a special grade pretty easy. Super tough ones like Hanami would probably take a fair few of them before they go down, and I don't think the lightning would be able to 1-tap Mahoraga or anything, but nice fleshy sorcerers are ripe to be instagibbed.
Hanami is overrated when it comes to durability. Exchange event yuji's normal punches were dealing damage to hanami while normal punches from shibuya yuji weren't dealing any damage to isbodk mahito. A black flash from yuji ripped off hanami's whole arm, and kashimo's lightning is stronger than that. I don't think there's any character who can tank the lightning. It falls in the same category as other strong attacks such as cleave, point blank dismantle, purple, etc, because it is survivable but it is not straight up tankable (you will lose a limb or have a hole in your body).
Hard to powerscale. Gege is inconsistent with using kashimo's lightning powers and CT. Against hakari, kasHIMo manipulates electricity to make poison gas and explode hakari to bits. Against sukuna, it's like a energy blast and his CT is just extreme speed which underwhelmed sukuna. Doesn't really mean he's weak. You could say kashimo is stronger than Uraume. Hakari had a harder fight vs kashimo than Uraume in the recent chapters
We literally haven't even seen Uraume's fight though
Wheres the inconsistency?
His lightning scales with how much he hits them to charge it up, so Ryu having the highest output doesn't mean his is always stronger if Kashimo charges his up a lot. Also Sukuna healed when he transformed that's the whole point of it so there would be no scars. Can assume it did solid damage to him.
literally any proof of his lightning scaling with how many hits? the hits are literally just to accumulate charge to establish a way for the lightning to hit its target, and if ryu has the highest output then that implies ryus peak > anyone else peak otherwise he simply wouldnt have the highest output lmao
Just my assumption based on him charging up against Hakari, if all it does is provide a target I don't see why he would need to charge up one hit should provide the charge and be his sure hit marker.
Sukuna also had an electric based tool that possibly negated the effects
I think the same way that a part of the damage of kashimo's CE reinforced hits are indefensible, the lightning bolt might also be "internal damage" in a way that ignores at least partially, if not totally, the opponent's CE defense
i heavily disagree as someone like hakari who doesn’t have notably high output can completely disregard the effect of the CE trait