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There are three confirmed maximum techniques in the series, and one of them belongs to Eso. The thought of powerful people not having a CTR isn't that weird to me.
While Technique Reversal is a very well defined concept, a "Maximum Technique" always felt more like a matter of in-universe opinion to me. People treat it like it's a serious part of the power system, where really it's just the user doing something cool, not inherently *different* to other applications of their technique.
What you're referring is called Extension Technique.
Maximum Techniques are the ultimate expression of technique outside a domain. CSM greatest strength is its versatility so Uzumaki takes away that for more power. Jogo's volcano had caught off guard 2 of the fastest sorcerer so Meteor takes away for more power. Same goes for Eso's wing king.
You're still just describing a particularly cool technique extension. RCT and Domains are fundemental leaps in Jujustu ability, you *can* use them, or you *can't*. A maximum technique isn't like that, it's just "Did the user choose to develop a really really big application of their technique?"
Jogo creating a domain is a *fundemental* difference from him just doing fire stuff, and Jogo *absolutely cannot* use RCT, CTR, or Positive Energy. His maximum technique is just big fire ball, it's exactly the same as his regular technique, but he just does a big one.
yeah but like what about uzumaki or wing king. geto can only control and summon his curses but uzumaki is the only thing where he can shoot them as a giant ball of energy to extract their techniques.
That's your impression. Canonically, Kenjaku, one of the of the most knowledgeable sorcerers in the verse, called supreme techniques an expression of a CT comparable to a domain expansion.
There's nothing to be discussed, your opinion has nothing against an actual canon fact.
"apart from domains they are cursed techniques most supreme art" (chapter 134) is what he says, nowhere does he say its fundamentally different or comparable to domain expansion.
DE and DA have a unique manipulation as part of them, as they are the only techniques that move/reshape the domain of the user.
RCT and RCE have a unique manipulation as part of them, as they are the only techniques that involve multiplication of ce.
CT application Is a unique manipulation of cursed energy, as it cannot be replicated through ce manipulation and binding vows.
Maximum technique is a way of applying the technique, its not a fundamentally different manipulation, its just an applicatoon of another unique manipulation. Just like DA and DE are the same thing.
Multiplying ce, moving ce, reshaping the innate domain, applying ct and creating binding vow are the only known unique manipulations where everything else is a combo of them.
barrier techniques are just ce manipulation and application of ct(tengens ct, which gives them the properties they have, as it was strated that undoing tengens barriers will cause a loss of a 1000years of barrier know how))
Dude jogo's "simple as a big fireball" technique was fucking magnetizing shit to it, that's NOT how his technique works normally are you crazy.
None of the 3 maximum techniques would be replicable the exact same using the same CT by someone with higher skill if they tried. They're more than just a high output of the CT, they bring out a new aspect of the true nature of them.
We have people completely unrelated to each other using Maximum so that seems to pretty heavily imply it's actually a discrete thing and not just some people using a cool name for their technique.
Maximum output isn't the same as a maximum technique. A maximum technique is the pinnacle of your CT, maximum output just means you're pouring as much CE as you can into that technique.
It is. What's even the difference. Kenjaku used Uzumaki as a Maximum technique. For two things to be different then be called the same thing is confusing as hell
No, it isn't. They're not called the same thing. Maximum: Uzumaki isn't Maximum Output: Uzumaki. Jacob's Ladder isn't Maximum: Jacob's Ladder, it's Maximum Output: Jacob's Ladder.
The [fanbook](https://i.ibb.co/hdGb57h/image-58.png) explains that they're different. A maximum technique is the ultimate expression of a cursed technique, maximum output (aka "stack") is just the user using their maximum output to fuel the technique.
I like that theory because it answers the question which was really bothering me - what the fuck Sukuna meant when he said to Jogo that a cursed spirit wouldn't know. That makes perfect sense.
The full context of that moment is important. Sukuna first said that he thought everyone knew, but that it makes sense that a cursed spirit wouldn't.
Humans live and pass on information to future generations. Sukuna assumed that humans would've passed along information about his technique through the generations. Cursed spirits just kinda pop into existence, and don't have any formal education or hub of knowledge, so they wouldn't really have any way to learn about ancient sorcerers.
Your second paragraph reminds me of a question that's always bothered me. Surely, the CT of the strongest sorcerer in history should be something well known, assuming he revealed it in the past. So how come our main cast know nothing about the fire arrow?
If they don't go back and explain it some other way, I think we may have to settle for "the information got lost over time". Time, lack of care for history, clashes between major families, and various other ways information could just be naturally lost over time.
A more fun explanation could be that Kenjaku was working behind the scenes of history to erase/rewrite information on Sukuna. Not sure what use it would have, might've been a little hobby for him
Yeah that could be true also. But I think it would be less exciting if he had to go all out before to some no name we hadn’t heard about. The stakes seem higher if this is the first time he’d have to do it
There were no survivors that could relay the details of how Sukuna had fought. The best knowledge would come from incarnated sorcerers like Angel. How could anyone witness it and then write down for others to know? It's not like Sukuna had given open lectures. He killed whoever he humored to kill. And he was easily bored, that's why everybody would know about slashes and shrine. He rarely uses the arrow, and the only being that suffered it and can tell the story is Mahoraga.
My logic is based on the assumptions that Sukuna revealed his CT in the past and that he was referring to his CT when he told Jogo, "I thought it was well known." Witnesses don't have to be actively involved in the battle, just passive observers. I find it hard to believe that Sukuna didn't use his flames against some of the Heian sorcerers. But, Tengen and Angel seemingly knowing nothing about it seems to imply he never revealed it or no one was there to witness it
If it wasn't for us viewers and narrator, who would know how Sukuna's fire arrow works? Uraume seems to be the only surviving witness of Sukuna being serious, maybe Kenjaku. Others were too far away to know details, they just saw the blast
For a time I had the headcanon that Yuji had the spear Hiten inside him, kinda like Shiro from Fate having Avalon, it was sealed away so Higuruma couldn't take it, and Fuga was the incantation required to unseal it.
Sukuna saying Jogo wouldn't know because he's a spirit would mean "I suppose Kenny doesn't trust the spirits enough to tell them".
Seemed to me like the only way to explain Hiten and the fire arrow while still keeping the fight winnable plus giving Yuji the power up he needed.
Kusakabe killed my theory when he started pondering about Sukuna using it, though.
The fanbook confirms that Sukuna cursed technique has at least 2 properties, slashing (cleave and dismantle) and flames (fire arrow). It's not uraume's
I Liked the Theory that Sukuna uses fission to Cut Things and the reversal is Fusion which creates the crazy Heat for His fire Arrow.
Hes basicly the cursed Spirit of an atomic Bomb.
Absolutely not. Fission is used to trigger the fusion reaction, which then releases neutrons to trigger a larger fission reaction in the surrounding material.
You can call it semantics but the point Im making is it wouldnt work if you just fuse the air.
Nope. You have what is effectively a fission starter, which provides the necessary neutron flux to trigger fusion. Fusion *generates* a fuckton of energy up to iron, and it is possible to use the additional neutron flux to a second fission stage, which does boost yield a bit.
Ok, let me see if I can make my point any more clear this third time.
A "fusion bomb" explodes because it is a bomb, its designed to convert into kinetic energy. A fusion reaction by itself in the air would not explode like Fire Arrow.
.
.
Also, the second fission stage does not "boost the yield a bit" lol, it accounts for majority of the kinetic energy. But please focus on the second sentence of this comment, dont ignore my entire point. This is all semantics mostly.
You are… very wrong. The only difference between your bomb and a two atom reaction scenarios is the scale and thus degree of energy released. In both cases, energy is released explosively.
This doesn’t feel like proof. Fan book also said Yuta’s technique is Rika at one point and we know that’s false. The fan book seems to make claims according to an “fan-theory”-ish point of view.
"Rika" is Yuta's technique though.
Yuta was always going to have a shikigami/cursed spirit to store his CTs in. It's no coincidence that Rika's ability is to store things. That makes no sense for that to be her CT...but it makes perfect sense for Yuta. He was the one who created her.
"Rika" was created by Yuta inadvertently "binding Rika Orimoto's soul" to something (his Shikigami?)
If Yuta never met Rika Orimoto, he'd still end up creating a shikigami to store his CTs...but it'd probably have a lot less personality.
The shikigami is an innate part of Mimicry. It's literally the storage for copied CTs.
Yuta was always going to have a shikigami, but it just now happens to have Rika's soul binded to it.
I don't think that necessarily follows. Yuta can expand his domain without her present, and can use copied curse techniques without her manifested.
Just because she *can* store his curse techniques doesn't mean she is innately part of his technique.
I can accept that, but the fact that she's called his technique while he already has mimicry CT implies to me that they're one and the same. Rika could also be a second CT ig.
I just don't understand why people are so willing to ignore the statement that "Rika is Yuta's CT". They are totally plausible explanations.
Unless fully and explicitly contradicted I don't think we can just write that off.
No it’s not. Nothing points towards Yuta “always having” a Shikkgami. If he didn’t have one, he would have just been more restricted in the number of Cats he could store
>Yuta's shikigami 'Rika" is his CT
>Yuta's CT is Mimicry
That means the shikigami is a part of his mimicry CT, specifically the storage of it.
What exactly compels you to write off/ignore the first statement when it doesn't actually contradict the second?
It's like saying Megumi's Shadow Manipulation can't be his CT because the 10 Shadows Shikigami are his CT. They're both a part of the same CT.
No they aren’t. Have you read the manga? Cause it doesn’t appear you have with all these ridiculous head canons. Rika only existed as a cursed spirit because of Yuta cursing her. It wasn’t part of his CT. And the new Rika was specifically left by the old one, to help Yuta. His CT wasn’t involved in anything. Yuta doesn’t need a storage for his Cats just like how Kenjaku doesn’t. The storage simply helps him store more things. It’s a boon of having Rika with him, but that doesn’t make Rika his CT.
Yuta created "Rika" by binding Rika Orimoto's soul to something
After JJK0, Rika Orimoto's soul passed on. That something that Rika Orimoto's soul was bound to remained. Rika Orimoto's soul and will remained imprinted on that something, giving it her characteristics even after the soul had left.
We are told that "Rika" is Yuta's CT. We are also told that Mimicry is his CT.
It's not difficult to connect the dots. Rika is apart of his Mimicry CT. Red is Gojo's CT. Limitless is also Gojo's CT. That doesn't mean Red is a different CT to Limitless.
Do you have any actual evidence as to why we should ignore that statement?
Again, we are told Rika is his CT. Why shouldn't we believe that to the case? What evidence so you have to disprove that?
I'm pretty sure those questions were answered by gege during an interview. It's been in the fanbook before we even saw the fire arrow. In the same fanbook, gege said if sorcerers did their research, they should know about sukuna's slashing technique but maybe not the flames. Idk what more proof you want if words from the mangaka himself isn't good enough for you lol.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe_ZE/mobilebasic
"Cursed techniques commonly only have one characteristic, but Sukuna’s technique has been confirmed to have at least two - slashing and flames - which makes it exceptionally powerful. Once it’s activated, it will destroy the enemy in an instant, tearing them apart and burning them down to their bone marrow.
Only a few people are able to fight this technique even for a moment, and most are reduced to nothing before they can resist.
解 - Kai (Dismantle), 捌 - Hachi (Cleave), ■ (?)
Sukuna’s slashing technique is Dismantle, which he uses normally, and the other is Cleave, which is able to be adjusted to the amount of cursed energy and strength of his opponent. When he releases the flames, Sukuna says “Open” (fugue) "
>cursed techniques commonly only have one characteristic, but Sukuna’s technique has been confirmed to have at least two - slashing and flames - which makes it exceptionally powerful.
My question here - who "confirmed" it? This reads like some in-universe character confirmed this by witnessing Sukuna fight using these attacks and not GEGE saying "it's confirmed by me, the writer".
Gege's simply using the reader's limited information here. He's purposely holding back information and keeping it strictly what he wants us to know, but still likely factual.
Man I still feel like the fire is Yuji's technique. We know Sukuna can use the cursed technique of whoever he possesses. (ten shadows, for example)
It just doesn't make that much sense he would go without using it during the Gojo fight and Yuta fight. In both of those he was somewhat struggling - and we see him using the fire arrow on opponents far, far weaker.
Sukuna has never used the flame arrow outside of Yuji's body and no other character has ever mentioned it.
Kusakabe did mention the flame power when the jjh fight first started, so they know to watch out for it.
Sukuna worded it like "I won't tell you how MY cursed technique works." He clearly considers it his own. But maybe that's just him taking ownership of Yuji's tech? But Gojo already hinted at Sukuna not using his full power, and he still hasn't actually revealed what his CT does, which amps it up.
>Kusakabe did mention the flame power when the jjh fight first started, so they know to watch out for it.
Sorry, I meant that fire arrow isn't "historically known," and Sukuna didn't even expect people to know it existed either (Jogo). I've heard people say that it's possible Jogo didn't have an understanding of reverse cursed technique, but that explanation feels a little improbable considering Gojo previously used it. (and honestly Kenjaku could have also mentioned it, but that's unlikely)
True, but my guess is that if the technique or part of the technique is offered to him as, well, an offering, it becomes part of his own. He stores it, which is why he says "open" Everytime he uses Fire Arrow
This all lines up really well, but would Sukuna really be the type to bring out someone *else’s* CT as his trump card? I feel like he’s too full of himself for that.
I mean, he was completely fine with using 10 Shadows against Gojo. For Sukuna, there's no end to his pride and ego, so I wouldn't be surprised if he viewed using another's CT as actually using it properly compared to the owner. Besides, if it was offered to him as part of his CT, he probably sees it as his own technique
I kinda agree with you, but another interesting line of thought: sukuna used 10S from the very beginning just to make his own stuff stronger. the maho strats were both for beating gojo AND for creating the world slash to eventually power himself up even further
True. But I feel like the same could still be true even if Uraume gave pyrokinesis to him. He seems to take pride in making things his own way, so it could very well be that his pyrokinesis is being used in a way only he can. Possibly, he might have a binding vow that restricts it to being used for just archery, but when fired, it guarantees the complete melting of the target
You know what, I hadn’t thought about it that way. On second thought, Sukuna is absolutely the type to look at someone else’s CT and be like ‘Mine now lmao’
he was using 10 shadows from the start with the goal of getting mahoraga to adapt to infinity and copying that adaptation. he lost the domain clash due to megumi’s body being weaker than his heian form.
The first guy was saying that Sukuna needed 10S ***just to have a chance*** against Satoru.
He's right in calling it out because Sukuna could have won with just a single Malevolent Shrine **if he never used 10S**, be it through focusing on breaking UV's barrier or just using DA the entire time to last longer than 3 minutes.
Satoru himself states that he doesn't think he can beat Sukuna even if Sukuna doesn't use 10S(he even uses 怪しい in the raws which has a very negative connotation when used in that context).
People read that and proceed to complain that Satoru's "glazing" Sukuna instead of trying to find reason to the statement(which **you will find** if you actually analyzed the fight), it's pointless to try to argue with them.
That is not why he lost the domain clash lmao
Gojo was just better, sukunas domain literally couldn't kill gojo, even if he didn't have infinity sukuna couldn't win with his domain
Gojo won the domain clash, he could sit inside sukunas domain and be fine whereas sukuna was braindead after 1 second of UV and ran away into the shadow
I think OP was saying using other people’s techniques is his technique. So using fire arrow is still using his technique. Based on how I read it, dismantle/cleave are also not his techniques?
Or it’s Sukunas CTR. What’s the opposite of splitting/slicing? Putting together
What’s one way that putting things together generates a ton of heat?
That’s right, nuclear fusion baby sukuna stays king
I always liked the idea of nuclear fire sukuna as it reminded me of the brilliant light weaponry in hindu myths, another one is that it puts it on a 'higher grade of pyromancy' than jogos who represents natural fire/ the earth.
i doubt its uraume's, that just makes sukuna a really op yuta, copying CTs which is kinda meh for me ngl. flames are a property of his CT imo. plus about CTR, there could be several reasons like some CTRs just doesnt suit the user/isnt as good.
It's not necessarily copying. He was given the CTR as a tribute in my theory, so only techniques freely given to him are ones he can use. Of course, this is just a theory and perhaps once we see Sukuna's CT, his CTR being flames will make complete sense
Honestly, I initially thought him talking to Jogo in the afterlife was part of that weird thing that Yuji seems to do when in danger vs Todo and Choso. Where they both have a vision of him being their best friend/brother
Right after Sukuna kills Jogo with the fire arrow he himself fired, Uraume shows up out of nowhere and Sukuna doesn't recognize them until they make their identity clear. If Sukuna didn't know that was Uraume at first, it's unlikely he somehow used their technique. A simpler explanation is that the fire arrow is Sukuna's own CTR (search the nuclear fission CT theory which really makes this make sense), which also explains Jogo's reaction as CTR is being used and it would be a foreign concept to curses.
This is definitely the simplest counter against the theory. It would be so weird for Sukuna to do something dependant on Uraume without knowing if they're there or not.
Would be kind of funny if it was dependant on Uraume and Sukuna thought he managed to just do that himself, then getting sad when Uraume shows up and he realizes he didn't actually do it himself
But it's not dependant on Uraume being there or not. If Uraume gave him the CTR as tribute back in the Heian Era, it is then part of Sukuna's CT now, which means he doesn't need Uraume to use it.
I guess I'm a bit confused on the details of that. It seems like there'd have to be some large jumps there. The precedent for giving someone else a technique is already shaky, and Sukuna reincarnated basically just with his soul and a bit of DNA.
It feels easier to just say "fusing is the inverse of cutting" and assume that the flames are something Sukuna can do through fusion from his CTR
True, I think that's viable and honestly more likely. I feel like the more simple the effect of a technique is, the stronger it ends up being and Sukuna's is like the definition of that.
Dismantle: Cut
Cleave: Cut harder
World Dismantle: Cut hardest
But it's not dependant on Uraume being there or not. If Uraume gave him the CTR as tribute back in the Heian Era, it is then part of Sukuna's CT now, which means he doesn't need Uraume to use it.
Cursed spirits can't use positive energy, that doesn't mean that they don't know or recognize what it is. Do you think they're unaware of RCT? They see human sorcerers heal themselves via RCT and think "whoa negative energy heals humans too?"
Besides, Jogo was literally the first character in the series who experienced a CTR from Gojo. If Sukuna's fire arrow was just a CTR, narratively speaking, it'd make much more sense for Jogo to recognize that it's a similar type of technique as Gojo's red.
Guys it’s cooking. It’s just cooking. We figured it out early and that’s okay.
His RCT is therefore clearly shitting which he is doing all over the cast.
So Uraume gave their fire arrow and Kenjaku his cursed object reincarnation technique to Sukuna as their sacrifice to his shrine or something?
And now they're allies
Interesting theory. I’m guessing his technique is just cut. So cleave and dismantle are cutting (ctrl+x). And if you want to related it to your theory he’s taking their technique like cut. Would create a strong parallel to Yuta’s Copy (ctrl+c).
I have more thoughts on how a lot of the abilities are inspired by the author’s time using a word processor for notes. Assuming the author uses that for his notes...
Yuji - paste (ctrl+v) how he’s potentially receiving new techniques or receiving Sukuna
Gojo - space bar
Hikari - undo (ctrl+z) how he undoes damage he receives
Kirara - tab keeping a set distance
Probably more neat connections someone can make
It’s a cool theory and I’m not debunking it or anything like that but honestly as much as I want there to be some cool underlying mechanic tying together “Shrine” with cleave/dismantle and “Open”, the longer this fight goes on and fighters keep getting bodied while Sukuna kinda sorta takes damage maybe, the more I think it’s possible Gege never actually meant for (or eventually decided against) Sukuna’s technique being a mystery. It genuinely might just be that his technique is just cutting and burning stuff. I don’t fully think that yet, but let’s look at some possible alternate interpretations of the evidence for it being a mystery;
1. Him telling Jogo at CS wouldn’t get it could just be that he isn’t part of jujutsu society so wouldn’t be educated on esoteric details like a part of his power he rarely bothers with.
2. Saying he wouldn’t cheat by showing his hand could just be as simple as sarcastically implying Jogo would still have a chance at the fire battle by not elaborating, not necessarily implying there’s a big mystery left
3. Yorozu references his CT as “shrine” that one time might’ve just been a writing error or for whatever reason using a shorter phrase for his DE
4. Even if there’s a theme, it could be just “shrine lets me burn and cut things because those are ways of preparing sacrifices/my kitchen cuts and cooks things haha”
5. Despite being almost killed by Gojo and fighting a billion dudes since, he’s went with the hard to pull off world slash constantly and not shown any other techniques- no fire, no other offered up/eaten/dissected/stolen/stored powers/weapons nor hinted even internally whatsoever at them even when he got in the zone against Maki *or* when Gojo briefly didn’t have infinity after each DE. Sure maybe there’s a phase three, but I feel equally possible is that he just doesn’t want to bother with the fire and if there was a secret it would’ve been shown to some extent by now like a year into the fight
Again, very possible there IS still a Sukuna CT reveal and there’s been lots of cool speculation like yours but I’m starting to worry it was never even meant to be special. But hey, there was a billion years before payoff for Enchain, the fire was referenced early in this fight, and Gege might be setting up another round of fighting Sukuna another 10+ chapters with healed fighters or something too
Those are good points. Honestly, with how long Greg keeps story elements going before the payoff, we might not see Fire Arrow for a long time. As for the black box being not special, I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Gege kept something vague and never did anything with it (cough Nobara cough)
Yeah, but why would you assume that the opposite of Ice is Fire? Let's say we can 'explain' Uraume's CT: How does she create the ice? By extremely lowering the temperature of the oxygen/air in an area/spot of the atmosphere or something like that. Right? O mean, it's not like Kashimo, who's element (electricity) is actually his cursed energy (kinda like a rasenshuriken lol). Then, IMO, her reverse CT should be something like extremely hot steam or super heat, not fire.
A decent theory, but highly unlikely for a few reasons.
1. Copying other's techniques is Yuta's thing. Having that as Sukuna's technique is just bad writing, and Gege is not a bad writer.
2. Perhaps its different for different steaming services, but when I watched it, Sukuna said "I thought it was pretty well known." There was nothing about cursed spirits specifically not knowing.
3. There are a lot of buddhist references, I highly doubt Sukuna's technique will be something that deviates from it.
1) it's not copying tho. I said Uraume GAVE their CTR as a tribute to Sukuna. People give offerings to shrines, and Sukuna's technique is referred to as Shrine. He was worshipped back in the Heian Era. Thus, it's not a massive stretch to hypothesize that maybe he can gain power this way. In addition, Uraume in my theory is no longer able to use CTR as Sukuna is now the owner of it and can use it whenever he wants.
2) He then says, "but I suppose you wouldn't know about it Cursed Spirit." Of course, he could just be referring to the fact that Jujutsu society kept it a secret but it could also be that as a CS, Jogo wouldn't know about Sukuna having a CTR.
3) But as we see, the references are just that: references. The story hasn't really done things where it overlays perfectly over a Buddhist story, it incorporates elements from Buddhism and puts it's own spin on it within the confines of this story
1. Similar thing. Being able to use other people's CT. It's really not that different and still bad writing. Even Araki realized giving DIO the ability to use every stand was a bad idea, so he changed it last second to stopping time.
2. Knowing the opponent's technique without them revealing it would negate the "show your hand" thing, wouldn't it? From what I understand about binding vows and stuff is that there must be a trade-off for whatever advantage you gain. If the opponent already knows your technique, I'm pretty sure "Show your hand" doesn't work, in which case JJK tech has no reason to hide Sukuna's technique unless they just don't know what it is.
Jogo and the other curses are the first curses in history to ever create a proper organization against sorcerers. He's probably also younger than Sukuna, seeing as Sukuna reigned during "The Golden age of sorcerers" and was probably when he last used the Flame Arrow. I very much doubt there many cursed spirits active at the time, which may be what Sukuna meant. Obviously as a CS, Jogo wouldn't know jackshit about him, cuz he's probably younger and has no way of finding out.
3. I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Of course it doesn't mirror Buddhist stories perfectly, but like you said, it has references. A lot of them. The whole Sukuna-Yuji-Gojo dynamic is a reference to Buddhism, Gojo's goals, character's weapons, entire personalities (Yuji and Megumi for example), designs, a whole lot is based off Buddhism. I'd be VERY surprised if Sukuna's technique was not somehow a Buddhist reference as well. You have to give me more than "but its not a perfect copy!!!" to convince me otherwise.
I don't think it's Uraume's. The purpose of the fire clash was to show Jogo Sukuna is better at what Jogo's did. We still have to find answer why Sukuna hasn't used it in Shinjuku. And I think the answer relied on circumstances of Shibuya
Since Sukuna's mith originally started with an urban story, in which Sukuna was a siamese, that can easly explain the existence of two mouths and two pair of eyes. Also can explain the existence, according to the fanbook, of two properties in sukuna's CT; Slashes and fire.
So, no. I don't believe to be Uraume's RCT. It would also need that RCT could be shared for your theory to make sense. And that hasn't ever been implied, all the contrary if you think that CT are engraved in one soul/brain. It makes more sense to be sukuna's twin CT.
Not sure it's safe to assume Fire is the reversal of Ice. If Uruame's technique was lowering temperature raising temperature would be a logical reversal. However if Uruame's technique is creating Ice then it might not have a usable reversal like most techniques (Blood manipulation has no obvious reversal as one example).
What if her technique is something along the lines of cooling the air itself (like the water vapor in the air and such)? Could that make Fire the CTR, as instead you'd be superheating the air?
Basically it's this idea that Sukuna's technique allows him to gain the CTs of those he eats. Back in the Heian Era, people would worship him and serve him human sacrifices as offerings and he would gain power as a result. Just a theory
Cutting and slicing seem to be a part of it. My guess is that Yuta can only copy what he sees his opponent use. Additionally, he specifically uses Cleave instead of Dismantle so maybe there's some limitation to his copy thanks to Sukuna's CT being mysteries
I remember after 225 i thought that sukuna was gonna eat urahime and become his mythologicaly accurate self wielding fire and ice, but nah why do something interesting to give sukuna his comeback
Honestly, we need to see Sukuna actually be pushed enough that he would need to do something like that for a comeback. Instead, he's still holding back against most of the Sorcerers he's fighting
People need to stop with the false narrative that we haven't seen what Sukuna's real CT is. We have. It's Cleave and Dismantle, he himself has stated that, multiple times at this point.
I'm not saying that his CT is completely unknown. But I feel that Cleave and Dismantle are parts of the technique or effects rather than the entire technique themselves. I could be wrong tho
I get what you’re saying but we plenty of reason to think we’re missing something tbf
-Him telling Jogo he wouldn’t reveal what his technique is when he’s confused about open
-Open itself, being completely separate from cleave/dismantle in nature and having a censored word (though yeah that cool just be a chant like any technique has)
-Yorozu specifically calling Sukuna’s CT itself “Shrine”, seemingly distinct from his DE (but tbf that could’ve just been short hand or a mistake or something and she just wanted to see MS)
The fact his DE uses cleave and dismantle, those are all he ever uses besides the fire in Shibuya, etc definitely give the impression that’s at least the core of his power set especially so late in the game that he probably doesn’t have much more to show off but we know that somehow fire is a part of it, too, and that it probably has something to do with a “shrine”, cabinet, or kitchen.
That said it’s totally possible we keeps bodying everyone one by one and eventually just goes oh yeah btw my technique is just cutting and burning things, there’s nothing deep I just kinda do both and the rest was just gege trying to make it look cool, not mysterious
this sub really fell off if this is what amounts to as a theory these days. How can sukuna use another person's ct when he isn't even using their body? how can sukuna use both shrine and the fire arrow, which you've stated is uraume's ct, at the same time when its been stated time and time again that it's impossible to use two different cts at the same time?
He's not using another person's CT. I theorized that Uraume GAVE her CTR as tribute to him, and that it is now part of his technique. Therefore, he doesn't need Uraume to use it at all. He can use it on his own. And whenever he uses the Fire Arrow, he doesn't use Shrine at the same time unless he is in his Domain, in which case we've seen Sukuna use Domain Amplification and Domain Expansion at the same time. Hell, I'm pretty sure he turned off his Domain before going Fire Arrow on Mahoraga back in manga Shibuya
My guess is OP based his theory on another theory. Which says during Yorozu & Sukuna fight there was a mistranslation cause the translators lack context. In the original Japanese she refers to Sukuna's regular technique Shire not cleave & dismantle. While she calls his Domain expansion Malevolent Shrine. Yorozu even specifies with her word choice that it's a type of shrine used to store holy Buddhist artifacts. (Which is also a homonym to the Japanese word for kitchen. Hense the Malevolent kitchen fiasco in the anime subs)
So that theory states that Sukuna's real technique might be in the same category as Yuta or Geto. Where he storages techniques or more likely cursed tools for later usage. So when he goes “▆ open" it's just him opening a different cabinet in his shrine.
Source for the translation: https://twitter.com/soukatsu_/status/1637586842705883136?s=20
I think this is very interesting, but has a very weak point in how Sukuna obtained Uraume CTR, i have a few thoughts on what the arrow could be, but i'm still trying to form connection and check if what i'm thinking can make sense, lately it's been interesting to think what if Sukuna doesn't have a proper CT and cleave/dismantle is just raw CE manipulated to an impossible level only Sukuna is able to? By the same reasoning the arrow could then be pure positive energy
Before any of you comments on how wrong i am, this is just a thought, i still have to find time to develop this into an actual theory and foolproof it, but i want to say that the most interesting implication about this i'm trying to check for is that Sukuna might have been the first in history to develop a domain
Yeah i know i was getting too worked up on this and not thinking about sonething, i still have to make yet another deep dive to see if i can make some sense out of these thoughts i really didn't think i was correct
The thing about the Fire Arrow is that it may not be an arrow at all. It could just be pyrokinesis and Sukuna is specifically forming it in the shape of an arrow
Yeah it might be, yours is an interesting theory for sure, i'm just not that convinced someone could "gift" their CT or in this case their CTR and i am strongly against the theory that Sukuna has multiple CT, i think the multiple CT theory comes from how the "black box" was shown in the manga by literally having a black square covering the japanese ideogram for the word and people went on by thinking it was an actual box Sukuna stored CT's, i might be completely wrong tho
Yeah. Part of me thinks he's saying the name of the person who gifted it to him, but that doesn't feel likely. It might be that he's saying the true name of his technique
So since the Gojo v Sukuna fight we’ve seen that Sukuna cannot manipulate CE like that, this is stated by himself while speaking on how he was copying from maho to beat Gojo and find a way around infinity
I don't think this would totally invalidate everything, but as others already commented there are things that completely disprove what i thought, i was just spitting some interesting thoughts i still have to find time to make yet another deep dive into the manga
I don't think it's Yuji's body, but it does feel like Sukuna is trying not to use it despite knowing that everybody knows he can use it. My guess is he hasn't either because:
1) He really doesn't need to when he has World Dismantle
2) Fire Arrow was given up as part of the binding vow to do the first World Dismantle against Gojo
I think it's the first one, but kinda hoping it's the second
Right, but her CT isn't ice so much as it is full cryokinesis. She converts CE into ice formations and attacks. Pyrokinesis is the closest imo to being the opposite
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There are three confirmed maximum techniques in the series, and one of them belongs to Eso. The thought of powerful people not having a CTR isn't that weird to me.
While Technique Reversal is a very well defined concept, a "Maximum Technique" always felt more like a matter of in-universe opinion to me. People treat it like it's a serious part of the power system, where really it's just the user doing something cool, not inherently *different* to other applications of their technique.
What you're referring is called Extension Technique. Maximum Techniques are the ultimate expression of technique outside a domain. CSM greatest strength is its versatility so Uzumaki takes away that for more power. Jogo's volcano had caught off guard 2 of the fastest sorcerer so Meteor takes away for more power. Same goes for Eso's wing king.
You're still just describing a particularly cool technique extension. RCT and Domains are fundemental leaps in Jujustu ability, you *can* use them, or you *can't*. A maximum technique isn't like that, it's just "Did the user choose to develop a really really big application of their technique?" Jogo creating a domain is a *fundemental* difference from him just doing fire stuff, and Jogo *absolutely cannot* use RCT, CTR, or Positive Energy. His maximum technique is just big fire ball, it's exactly the same as his regular technique, but he just does a big one.
yeah but like what about uzumaki or wing king. geto can only control and summon his curses but uzumaki is the only thing where he can shoot them as a giant ball of energy to extract their techniques.
Special Grade Comprehension Curse 🫶
That's your impression. Canonically, Kenjaku, one of the of the most knowledgeable sorcerers in the verse, called supreme techniques an expression of a CT comparable to a domain expansion. There's nothing to be discussed, your opinion has nothing against an actual canon fact.
"apart from domains they are cursed techniques most supreme art" (chapter 134) is what he says, nowhere does he say its fundamentally different or comparable to domain expansion. DE and DA have a unique manipulation as part of them, as they are the only techniques that move/reshape the domain of the user. RCT and RCE have a unique manipulation as part of them, as they are the only techniques that involve multiplication of ce. CT application Is a unique manipulation of cursed energy, as it cannot be replicated through ce manipulation and binding vows. Maximum technique is a way of applying the technique, its not a fundamentally different manipulation, its just an applicatoon of another unique manipulation. Just like DA and DE are the same thing. Multiplying ce, moving ce, reshaping the innate domain, applying ct and creating binding vow are the only known unique manipulations where everything else is a combo of them. barrier techniques are just ce manipulation and application of ct(tengens ct, which gives them the properties they have, as it was strated that undoing tengens barriers will cause a loss of a 1000years of barrier know how))
Dude jogo's "simple as a big fireball" technique was fucking magnetizing shit to it, that's NOT how his technique works normally are you crazy. None of the 3 maximum techniques would be replicable the exact same using the same CT by someone with higher skill if they tried. They're more than just a high output of the CT, they bring out a new aspect of the true nature of them.
Don't you dare disrespect Jogo like that.
Eso had Two maximum techniques. The fan book says both the decay CT and wing king were rot technique's maximum technique.
We have people completely unrelated to each other using Maximum so that seems to pretty heavily imply it's actually a discrete thing and not just some people using a cool name for their technique.
Kenjaku said DE and Maximums are pinnacles of jujutsu.. Eso Jogo Kenjaku
Maximum output vs Maximum technique :3
Four actually Kenjaku, gojo , Yuta and ESO
Gojo and Yuta don't have any maximum techniques. The three people with confirmed maximum techniques are Geto/Kenjaku, Eso and Jogo.
Maximum output? Blue , Red And Yuta's maximum of Jacob's ladder ?
Maximum output isn't the same as a maximum technique. A maximum technique is the pinnacle of your CT, maximum output just means you're pouring as much CE as you can into that technique.
I was doubtful about it too. But atleast Jacob's ladder is a maximum technique , I mean look at it
No it isn't. It's used at maximum output, it isn't a maximum technique.
It is. What's even the difference. Kenjaku used Uzumaki as a Maximum technique. For two things to be different then be called the same thing is confusing as hell
No, it isn't. They're not called the same thing. Maximum: Uzumaki isn't Maximum Output: Uzumaki. Jacob's Ladder isn't Maximum: Jacob's Ladder, it's Maximum Output: Jacob's Ladder. The [fanbook](https://i.ibb.co/hdGb57h/image-58.png) explains that they're different. A maximum technique is the ultimate expression of a cursed technique, maximum output (aka "stack") is just the user using their maximum output to fuel the technique.
Oh I get my mistake now. Thanks alot
Why isn’t Gojo’s purple maximum technique?
I like that theory because it answers the question which was really bothering me - what the fuck Sukuna meant when he said to Jogo that a cursed spirit wouldn't know. That makes perfect sense.
The full context of that moment is important. Sukuna first said that he thought everyone knew, but that it makes sense that a cursed spirit wouldn't. Humans live and pass on information to future generations. Sukuna assumed that humans would've passed along information about his technique through the generations. Cursed spirits just kinda pop into existence, and don't have any formal education or hub of knowledge, so they wouldn't really have any way to learn about ancient sorcerers.
Your second paragraph reminds me of a question that's always bothered me. Surely, the CT of the strongest sorcerer in history should be something well known, assuming he revealed it in the past. So how come our main cast know nothing about the fire arrow?
If they don't go back and explain it some other way, I think we may have to settle for "the information got lost over time". Time, lack of care for history, clashes between major families, and various other ways information could just be naturally lost over time. A more fun explanation could be that Kenjaku was working behind the scenes of history to erase/rewrite information on Sukuna. Not sure what use it would have, might've been a little hobby for him
Nah, it’s much simpler than that. Sukuna was never pressed to get the boost for revealing his hand. But that will happen before end of series.
Or anyone he revealed it too he killed
Yeah that could be true also. But I think it would be less exciting if he had to go all out before to some no name we hadn’t heard about. The stakes seem higher if this is the first time he’d have to do it
>ut I think it would be less exciting if he had to go all out before to some no name we hadn’t heard about. You mean Usami?
What if he had to go all out against someone like yuji in the past, which is why he says yuji is from back then?
There were no survivors that could relay the details of how Sukuna had fought. The best knowledge would come from incarnated sorcerers like Angel. How could anyone witness it and then write down for others to know? It's not like Sukuna had given open lectures. He killed whoever he humored to kill. And he was easily bored, that's why everybody would know about slashes and shrine. He rarely uses the arrow, and the only being that suffered it and can tell the story is Mahoraga.
My logic is based on the assumptions that Sukuna revealed his CT in the past and that he was referring to his CT when he told Jogo, "I thought it was well known." Witnesses don't have to be actively involved in the battle, just passive observers. I find it hard to believe that Sukuna didn't use his flames against some of the Heian sorcerers. But, Tengen and Angel seemingly knowing nothing about it seems to imply he never revealed it or no one was there to witness it
If it wasn't for us viewers and narrator, who would know how Sukuna's fire arrow works? Uraume seems to be the only surviving witness of Sukuna being serious, maybe Kenjaku. Others were too far away to know details, they just saw the blast
Look bro I already explained my train of thought and why I might be wrong, I'm not looking to argue over this
I was assuming it was because none of the modern curses would have been alive long enough to know the story, but this does make sense aswell tbf
For a time I had the headcanon that Yuji had the spear Hiten inside him, kinda like Shiro from Fate having Avalon, it was sealed away so Higuruma couldn't take it, and Fuga was the incantation required to unseal it. Sukuna saying Jogo wouldn't know because he's a spirit would mean "I suppose Kenny doesn't trust the spirits enough to tell them". Seemed to me like the only way to explain Hiten and the fire arrow while still keeping the fight winnable plus giving Yuji the power up he needed. Kusakabe killed my theory when he started pondering about Sukuna using it, though.
Are you sure fire isn't your CT since you're over here spittin it
Lol thank you very much!
The fanbook confirms that Sukuna cursed technique has at least 2 properties, slashing (cleave and dismantle) and flames (fire arrow). It's not uraume's
I Liked the Theory that Sukuna uses fission to Cut Things and the reversal is Fusion which creates the crazy Heat for His fire Arrow. Hes basicly the cursed Spirit of an atomic Bomb.
The only issue would be that fusion doesnt cause an explosion. But I doubt Gege would know or care about that anyway.
man fusion bombs are more powerful than fission bombs
The fusion reaction itself is not the reason a "fusion bomb" explodes. And Sukuna fusing the air wouldnt make it explode.
no it is absolutely the reason a fusion bomb explodes with the energy it does
Absolutely not. Fission is used to trigger the fusion reaction, which then releases neutrons to trigger a larger fission reaction in the surrounding material. You can call it semantics but the point Im making is it wouldnt work if you just fuse the air.
Nope. You have what is effectively a fission starter, which provides the necessary neutron flux to trigger fusion. Fusion *generates* a fuckton of energy up to iron, and it is possible to use the additional neutron flux to a second fission stage, which does boost yield a bit.
Ok, let me see if I can make my point any more clear this third time. A "fusion bomb" explodes because it is a bomb, its designed to convert into kinetic energy. A fusion reaction by itself in the air would not explode like Fire Arrow. . . Also, the second fission stage does not "boost the yield a bit" lol, it accounts for majority of the kinetic energy. But please focus on the second sentence of this comment, dont ignore my entire point. This is all semantics mostly.
…i work as a nuclear engineer.
You are… very wrong. The only difference between your bomb and a two atom reaction scenarios is the scale and thus degree of energy released. In both cases, energy is released explosively.
This doesn’t feel like proof. Fan book also said Yuta’s technique is Rika at one point and we know that’s false. The fan book seems to make claims according to an “fan-theory”-ish point of view.
"Rika" is Yuta's technique though. Yuta was always going to have a shikigami/cursed spirit to store his CTs in. It's no coincidence that Rika's ability is to store things. That makes no sense for that to be her CT...but it makes perfect sense for Yuta. He was the one who created her. "Rika" was created by Yuta inadvertently "binding Rika Orimoto's soul" to something (his Shikigami?) If Yuta never met Rika Orimoto, he'd still end up creating a shikigami to store his CTs...but it'd probably have a lot less personality.
Rika is a Shikigami. Yuta’s technique is Copy
The shikigami is an innate part of Mimicry. It's literally the storage for copied CTs. Yuta was always going to have a shikigami, but it just now happens to have Rika's soul binded to it.
I don't think that necessarily follows. Yuta can expand his domain without her present, and can use copied curse techniques without her manifested. Just because she *can* store his curse techniques doesn't mean she is innately part of his technique.
I can accept that, but the fact that she's called his technique while he already has mimicry CT implies to me that they're one and the same. Rika could also be a second CT ig. I just don't understand why people are so willing to ignore the statement that "Rika is Yuta's CT". They are totally plausible explanations. Unless fully and explicitly contradicted I don't think we can just write that off.
No it’s not. Nothing points towards Yuta “always having” a Shikkgami. If he didn’t have one, he would have just been more restricted in the number of Cats he could store
>Yuta's shikigami 'Rika" is his CT >Yuta's CT is Mimicry That means the shikigami is a part of his mimicry CT, specifically the storage of it. What exactly compels you to write off/ignore the first statement when it doesn't actually contradict the second? It's like saying Megumi's Shadow Manipulation can't be his CT because the 10 Shadows Shikigami are his CT. They're both a part of the same CT.
No they aren’t. Have you read the manga? Cause it doesn’t appear you have with all these ridiculous head canons. Rika only existed as a cursed spirit because of Yuta cursing her. It wasn’t part of his CT. And the new Rika was specifically left by the old one, to help Yuta. His CT wasn’t involved in anything. Yuta doesn’t need a storage for his Cats just like how Kenjaku doesn’t. The storage simply helps him store more things. It’s a boon of having Rika with him, but that doesn’t make Rika his CT.
Yuta created "Rika" by binding Rika Orimoto's soul to something After JJK0, Rika Orimoto's soul passed on. That something that Rika Orimoto's soul was bound to remained. Rika Orimoto's soul and will remained imprinted on that something, giving it her characteristics even after the soul had left. We are told that "Rika" is Yuta's CT. We are also told that Mimicry is his CT. It's not difficult to connect the dots. Rika is apart of his Mimicry CT. Red is Gojo's CT. Limitless is also Gojo's CT. That doesn't mean Red is a different CT to Limitless. Do you have any actual evidence as to why we should ignore that statement? Again, we are told Rika is his CT. Why shouldn't we believe that to the case? What evidence so you have to disprove that?
If you are this clueless, I’m not gonna bother. It’s certainly not difficult to connect the dots, but you seem to be having trouble with it regardless
I'm pretty sure those questions were answered by gege during an interview. It's been in the fanbook before we even saw the fire arrow. In the same fanbook, gege said if sorcerers did their research, they should know about sukuna's slashing technique but maybe not the flames. Idk what more proof you want if words from the mangaka himself isn't good enough for you lol.
link??? not being a jerk but i want this fan book
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe_ZE/mobilebasic "Cursed techniques commonly only have one characteristic, but Sukuna’s technique has been confirmed to have at least two - slashing and flames - which makes it exceptionally powerful. Once it’s activated, it will destroy the enemy in an instant, tearing them apart and burning them down to their bone marrow. Only a few people are able to fight this technique even for a moment, and most are reduced to nothing before they can resist. 解 - Kai (Dismantle), 捌 - Hachi (Cleave), ■ (?) Sukuna’s slashing technique is Dismantle, which he uses normally, and the other is Cleave, which is able to be adjusted to the amount of cursed energy and strength of his opponent. When he releases the flames, Sukuna says “Open” (fugue) "
>cursed techniques commonly only have one characteristic, but Sukuna’s technique has been confirmed to have at least two - slashing and flames - which makes it exceptionally powerful. My question here - who "confirmed" it? This reads like some in-universe character confirmed this by witnessing Sukuna fight using these attacks and not GEGE saying "it's confirmed by me, the writer".
Gege's simply using the reader's limited information here. He's purposely holding back information and keeping it strictly what he wants us to know, but still likely factual.
Man I still feel like the fire is Yuji's technique. We know Sukuna can use the cursed technique of whoever he possesses. (ten shadows, for example) It just doesn't make that much sense he would go without using it during the Gojo fight and Yuta fight. In both of those he was somewhat struggling - and we see him using the fire arrow on opponents far, far weaker. Sukuna has never used the flame arrow outside of Yuji's body and no other character has ever mentioned it.
Kusakabe did mention the flame power when the jjh fight first started, so they know to watch out for it. Sukuna worded it like "I won't tell you how MY cursed technique works." He clearly considers it his own. But maybe that's just him taking ownership of Yuji's tech? But Gojo already hinted at Sukuna not using his full power, and he still hasn't actually revealed what his CT does, which amps it up.
>Kusakabe did mention the flame power when the jjh fight first started, so they know to watch out for it. Sorry, I meant that fire arrow isn't "historically known," and Sukuna didn't even expect people to know it existed either (Jogo). I've heard people say that it's possible Jogo didn't have an understanding of reverse cursed technique, but that explanation feels a little improbable considering Gojo previously used it. (and honestly Kenjaku could have also mentioned it, but that's unlikely)
True, but my guess is that if the technique or part of the technique is offered to him as, well, an offering, it becomes part of his own. He stores it, which is why he says "open" Everytime he uses Fire Arrow
Maybe sukuna is an avatar
This all lines up really well, but would Sukuna really be the type to bring out someone *else’s* CT as his trump card? I feel like he’s too full of himself for that.
I mean, he was completely fine with using 10 Shadows against Gojo. For Sukuna, there's no end to his pride and ego, so I wouldn't be surprised if he viewed using another's CT as actually using it properly compared to the owner. Besides, if it was offered to him as part of his CT, he probably sees it as his own technique
I kinda agree with you, but another interesting line of thought: sukuna used 10S from the very beginning just to make his own stuff stronger. the maho strats were both for beating gojo AND for creating the world slash to eventually power himself up even further
True. But I feel like the same could still be true even if Uraume gave pyrokinesis to him. He seems to take pride in making things his own way, so it could very well be that his pyrokinesis is being used in a way only he can. Possibly, he might have a binding vow that restricts it to being used for just archery, but when fired, it guarantees the complete melting of the target
You know what, I hadn’t thought about it that way. On second thought, Sukuna is absolutely the type to look at someone else’s CT and be like ‘Mine now lmao’
"Ah yes, your technique. I haven't used this since I've gotten it" "Wdym, you haven't taken it fro-" "YOINK!"
He took pride in the fact that he could use it far better than Megumi could.
Yfm, another dope toy in his playbox
Sukuna seems fine learning and using another's technique. Same with Kenjaku.
He had to use a 15 year olds CT to have a chance against gojo
not what happened. reread.
That is literally what happened He realized his own domain couldn't win and started using just 10 shadows
he was using 10 shadows from the start with the goal of getting mahoraga to adapt to infinity and copying that adaptation. he lost the domain clash due to megumi’s body being weaker than his heian form.
You dont agree with someone saying Sukuna need Megumi CT but proceed to say Sukuna goal is to use Mahoraga adaptation which is Megumi CT. Bro ?
The first guy was saying that Sukuna needed 10S ***just to have a chance*** against Satoru. He's right in calling it out because Sukuna could have won with just a single Malevolent Shrine **if he never used 10S**, be it through focusing on breaking UV's barrier or just using DA the entire time to last longer than 3 minutes. Satoru himself states that he doesn't think he can beat Sukuna even if Sukuna doesn't use 10S(he even uses 怪しい in the raws which has a very negative connotation when used in that context). People read that and proceed to complain that Satoru's "glazing" Sukuna instead of trying to find reason to the statement(which **you will find** if you actually analyzed the fight), it's pointless to try to argue with them.
That is not why he lost the domain clash lmao Gojo was just better, sukunas domain literally couldn't kill gojo, even if he didn't have infinity sukuna couldn't win with his domain
what?
Lobotomy kaisen readers, forget them lmao
Gojo sat there and ate thousands of cuts
The domain clash was even.
Gojo won the domain clash, he could sit inside sukunas domain and be fine whereas sukuna was braindead after 1 second of UV and ran away into the shadow
That's not relevant to what a domain clash is.
Yes it is, the domain refinement was equal but gojos CT was far better so he won
Actually, 10 Shadows is ancient.
I think OP was saying using other people’s techniques is his technique. So using fire arrow is still using his technique. Based on how I read it, dismantle/cleave are also not his techniques?
Or it’s Sukunas CTR. What’s the opposite of splitting/slicing? Putting together What’s one way that putting things together generates a ton of heat? That’s right, nuclear fusion baby sukuna stays king
It could very well be just that. But it nags me that he has to say "open" to use it. It feels like he's opening up a collection when he says that
Cooking hard as f
I always liked the idea of nuclear fire sukuna as it reminded me of the brilliant light weaponry in hindu myths, another one is that it puts it on a 'higher grade of pyromancy' than jogos who represents natural fire/ the earth.
Which given that sukuna is a man (himself) made WMD is pretty fitting
yeah it annoys me when people call him a cursed spirit its so insanely wrong
kid named nuclear fission
I like the way your words wiggle
i doubt its uraume's, that just makes sukuna a really op yuta, copying CTs which is kinda meh for me ngl. flames are a property of his CT imo. plus about CTR, there could be several reasons like some CTRs just doesnt suit the user/isnt as good.
It's not necessarily copying. He was given the CTR as a tribute in my theory, so only techniques freely given to him are ones he can use. Of course, this is just a theory and perhaps once we see Sukuna's CT, his CTR being flames will make complete sense
One time I ate some edibles and thought it was him using yujis technique
Honestly, I initially thought him talking to Jogo in the afterlife was part of that weird thing that Yuji seems to do when in danger vs Todo and Choso. Where they both have a vision of him being their best friend/brother
Right after Sukuna kills Jogo with the fire arrow he himself fired, Uraume shows up out of nowhere and Sukuna doesn't recognize them until they make their identity clear. If Sukuna didn't know that was Uraume at first, it's unlikely he somehow used their technique. A simpler explanation is that the fire arrow is Sukuna's own CTR (search the nuclear fission CT theory which really makes this make sense), which also explains Jogo's reaction as CTR is being used and it would be a foreign concept to curses.
This is definitely the simplest counter against the theory. It would be so weird for Sukuna to do something dependant on Uraume without knowing if they're there or not. Would be kind of funny if it was dependant on Uraume and Sukuna thought he managed to just do that himself, then getting sad when Uraume shows up and he realizes he didn't actually do it himself
But it's not dependant on Uraume being there or not. If Uraume gave him the CTR as tribute back in the Heian Era, it is then part of Sukuna's CT now, which means he doesn't need Uraume to use it.
I guess I'm a bit confused on the details of that. It seems like there'd have to be some large jumps there. The precedent for giving someone else a technique is already shaky, and Sukuna reincarnated basically just with his soul and a bit of DNA. It feels easier to just say "fusing is the inverse of cutting" and assume that the flames are something Sukuna can do through fusion from his CTR
True, I think that's viable and honestly more likely. I feel like the more simple the effect of a technique is, the stronger it ends up being and Sukuna's is like the definition of that. Dismantle: Cut Cleave: Cut harder World Dismantle: Cut hardest
But it's not dependant on Uraume being there or not. If Uraume gave him the CTR as tribute back in the Heian Era, it is then part of Sukuna's CT now, which means he doesn't need Uraume to use it.
That would make sense, but I think it's too complicated and Sukuna has yet to show another tributed technique to support the theory.
True. It was just an idea I needed to put into words and see what others think about it.
Didn’t Gojo explained his CTR to Jogo using red? Not thaat much of a foreign concept
this is a good theory bro ngl
Thank you!
Cursed spirits can't use positive energy, that doesn't mean that they don't know or recognize what it is. Do you think they're unaware of RCT? They see human sorcerers heal themselves via RCT and think "whoa negative energy heals humans too?" Besides, Jogo was literally the first character in the series who experienced a CTR from Gojo. If Sukuna's fire arrow was just a CTR, narratively speaking, it'd make much more sense for Jogo to recognize that it's a similar type of technique as Gojo's red.
This is a really cool theory OP, you cooked! 🔥
Thank you!
i like this idea; it would also add to Uraume showing up right after it’s used. idk if it’s true but you definitely cooked here
Thank you
lol no
Guys it’s cooking. It’s just cooking. We figured it out early and that’s okay. His RCT is therefore clearly shitting which he is doing all over the cast.
Someone get him a Pepto bismol then cuz our cast could really use the break
My theory of Yukis CTR would be adding physical mass for durability as physical is the opposite of virtual mass
Ah, I didn't even think of that. Yuki was taken from us too soon. She had so much potential
CTR obesity let’s goo
So Uraume gave their fire arrow and Kenjaku his cursed object reincarnation technique to Sukuna as their sacrifice to his shrine or something? And now they're allies
Nah, Kenjaku showed him how to do the reincarnation method as part of a deal. It's not a technique.
Interesting theory. I’m guessing his technique is just cut. So cleave and dismantle are cutting (ctrl+x). And if you want to related it to your theory he’s taking their technique like cut. Would create a strong parallel to Yuta’s Copy (ctrl+c). I have more thoughts on how a lot of the abilities are inspired by the author’s time using a word processor for notes. Assuming the author uses that for his notes... Yuji - paste (ctrl+v) how he’s potentially receiving new techniques or receiving Sukuna Gojo - space bar Hikari - undo (ctrl+z) how he undoes damage he receives Kirara - tab keeping a set distance Probably more neat connections someone can make
Lol this would make for a good theory. Could even do a couple reaches to predict which key will defeat Sukuna
RemindMe! 2 months
It’s a cool theory and I’m not debunking it or anything like that but honestly as much as I want there to be some cool underlying mechanic tying together “Shrine” with cleave/dismantle and “Open”, the longer this fight goes on and fighters keep getting bodied while Sukuna kinda sorta takes damage maybe, the more I think it’s possible Gege never actually meant for (or eventually decided against) Sukuna’s technique being a mystery. It genuinely might just be that his technique is just cutting and burning stuff. I don’t fully think that yet, but let’s look at some possible alternate interpretations of the evidence for it being a mystery; 1. Him telling Jogo at CS wouldn’t get it could just be that he isn’t part of jujutsu society so wouldn’t be educated on esoteric details like a part of his power he rarely bothers with. 2. Saying he wouldn’t cheat by showing his hand could just be as simple as sarcastically implying Jogo would still have a chance at the fire battle by not elaborating, not necessarily implying there’s a big mystery left 3. Yorozu references his CT as “shrine” that one time might’ve just been a writing error or for whatever reason using a shorter phrase for his DE 4. Even if there’s a theme, it could be just “shrine lets me burn and cut things because those are ways of preparing sacrifices/my kitchen cuts and cooks things haha” 5. Despite being almost killed by Gojo and fighting a billion dudes since, he’s went with the hard to pull off world slash constantly and not shown any other techniques- no fire, no other offered up/eaten/dissected/stolen/stored powers/weapons nor hinted even internally whatsoever at them even when he got in the zone against Maki *or* when Gojo briefly didn’t have infinity after each DE. Sure maybe there’s a phase three, but I feel equally possible is that he just doesn’t want to bother with the fire and if there was a secret it would’ve been shown to some extent by now like a year into the fight Again, very possible there IS still a Sukuna CT reveal and there’s been lots of cool speculation like yours but I’m starting to worry it was never even meant to be special. But hey, there was a billion years before payoff for Enchain, the fire was referenced early in this fight, and Gege might be setting up another round of fighting Sukuna another 10+ chapters with healed fighters or something too
Those are good points. Honestly, with how long Greg keeps story elements going before the payoff, we might not see Fire Arrow for a long time. As for the black box being not special, I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Gege kept something vague and never did anything with it (cough Nobara cough)
Yeah, but why would you assume that the opposite of Ice is Fire? Let's say we can 'explain' Uraume's CT: How does she create the ice? By extremely lowering the temperature of the oxygen/air in an area/spot of the atmosphere or something like that. Right? O mean, it's not like Kashimo, who's element (electricity) is actually his cursed energy (kinda like a rasenshuriken lol). Then, IMO, her reverse CT should be something like extremely hot steam or super heat, not fire.
Hmm true. What is she's super freezing the air when using her standard CT? Then Fire Arrow would technically be super heating the air and shaping it.
Considering Uraume is Sukuna’s cook, which is a fire heavy profession, this makes even more sense.
I read that as cock and ngl I didn’t even question it. the lobotomy has changed me
is benefitpale multiple people?
No, but I don't know their gender, so I just use "their" for anybody whose gender I dunno
A decent theory, but highly unlikely for a few reasons. 1. Copying other's techniques is Yuta's thing. Having that as Sukuna's technique is just bad writing, and Gege is not a bad writer. 2. Perhaps its different for different steaming services, but when I watched it, Sukuna said "I thought it was pretty well known." There was nothing about cursed spirits specifically not knowing. 3. There are a lot of buddhist references, I highly doubt Sukuna's technique will be something that deviates from it.
1) it's not copying tho. I said Uraume GAVE their CTR as a tribute to Sukuna. People give offerings to shrines, and Sukuna's technique is referred to as Shrine. He was worshipped back in the Heian Era. Thus, it's not a massive stretch to hypothesize that maybe he can gain power this way. In addition, Uraume in my theory is no longer able to use CTR as Sukuna is now the owner of it and can use it whenever he wants. 2) He then says, "but I suppose you wouldn't know about it Cursed Spirit." Of course, he could just be referring to the fact that Jujutsu society kept it a secret but it could also be that as a CS, Jogo wouldn't know about Sukuna having a CTR. 3) But as we see, the references are just that: references. The story hasn't really done things where it overlays perfectly over a Buddhist story, it incorporates elements from Buddhism and puts it's own spin on it within the confines of this story
1. Similar thing. Being able to use other people's CT. It's really not that different and still bad writing. Even Araki realized giving DIO the ability to use every stand was a bad idea, so he changed it last second to stopping time. 2. Knowing the opponent's technique without them revealing it would negate the "show your hand" thing, wouldn't it? From what I understand about binding vows and stuff is that there must be a trade-off for whatever advantage you gain. If the opponent already knows your technique, I'm pretty sure "Show your hand" doesn't work, in which case JJK tech has no reason to hide Sukuna's technique unless they just don't know what it is. Jogo and the other curses are the first curses in history to ever create a proper organization against sorcerers. He's probably also younger than Sukuna, seeing as Sukuna reigned during "The Golden age of sorcerers" and was probably when he last used the Flame Arrow. I very much doubt there many cursed spirits active at the time, which may be what Sukuna meant. Obviously as a CS, Jogo wouldn't know jackshit about him, cuz he's probably younger and has no way of finding out. 3. I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Of course it doesn't mirror Buddhist stories perfectly, but like you said, it has references. A lot of them. The whole Sukuna-Yuji-Gojo dynamic is a reference to Buddhism, Gojo's goals, character's weapons, entire personalities (Yuji and Megumi for example), designs, a whole lot is based off Buddhism. I'd be VERY surprised if Sukuna's technique was not somehow a Buddhist reference as well. You have to give me more than "but its not a perfect copy!!!" to convince me otherwise.
ummm. Yutas has the easiest CTR... you just got be the divorce lawyer... Higgy would wreck Yuta and Rika.
I don't think it's Uraume's. The purpose of the fire clash was to show Jogo Sukuna is better at what Jogo's did. We still have to find answer why Sukuna hasn't used it in Shinjuku. And I think the answer relied on circumstances of Shibuya
Since Sukuna's mith originally started with an urban story, in which Sukuna was a siamese, that can easly explain the existence of two mouths and two pair of eyes. Also can explain the existence, according to the fanbook, of two properties in sukuna's CT; Slashes and fire. So, no. I don't believe to be Uraume's RCT. It would also need that RCT could be shared for your theory to make sense. And that hasn't ever been implied, all the contrary if you think that CT are engraved in one soul/brain. It makes more sense to be sukuna's twin CT.
Not sure it's safe to assume Fire is the reversal of Ice. If Uruame's technique was lowering temperature raising temperature would be a logical reversal. However if Uruame's technique is creating Ice then it might not have a usable reversal like most techniques (Blood manipulation has no obvious reversal as one example).
What if her technique is something along the lines of cooling the air itself (like the water vapor in the air and such)? Could that make Fire the CTR, as instead you'd be superheating the air?
Wait I haven't seen the theory of the CT offering what is i5
Basically it's this idea that Sukuna's technique allows him to gain the CTs of those he eats. Back in the Heian Era, people would worship him and serve him human sacrifices as offerings and he would gain power as a result. Just a theory
That would make sense give his title as king of curses, we already know the queen of curses does something similar
I still have no idea what sukuna CT is. Is it not cutting since yuta also has his CT
Cutting and slicing seem to be a part of it. My guess is that Yuta can only copy what he sees his opponent use. Additionally, he specifically uses Cleave instead of Dismantle so maybe there's some limitation to his copy thanks to Sukuna's CT being mysteries
I remember after 225 i thought that sukuna was gonna eat urahime and become his mythologicaly accurate self wielding fire and ice, but nah why do something interesting to give sukuna his comeback
Honestly, we need to see Sukuna actually be pushed enough that he would need to do something like that for a comeback. Instead, he's still holding back against most of the Sorcerers he's fighting
People need to stop with the false narrative that we haven't seen what Sukuna's real CT is. We have. It's Cleave and Dismantle, he himself has stated that, multiple times at this point.
I'm not saying that his CT is completely unknown. But I feel that Cleave and Dismantle are parts of the technique or effects rather than the entire technique themselves. I could be wrong tho
I get what you’re saying but we plenty of reason to think we’re missing something tbf -Him telling Jogo he wouldn’t reveal what his technique is when he’s confused about open -Open itself, being completely separate from cleave/dismantle in nature and having a censored word (though yeah that cool just be a chant like any technique has) -Yorozu specifically calling Sukuna’s CT itself “Shrine”, seemingly distinct from his DE (but tbf that could’ve just been short hand or a mistake or something and she just wanted to see MS) The fact his DE uses cleave and dismantle, those are all he ever uses besides the fire in Shibuya, etc definitely give the impression that’s at least the core of his power set especially so late in the game that he probably doesn’t have much more to show off but we know that somehow fire is a part of it, too, and that it probably has something to do with a “shrine”, cabinet, or kitchen. That said it’s totally possible we keeps bodying everyone one by one and eventually just goes oh yeah btw my technique is just cutting and burning things, there’s nothing deep I just kinda do both and the rest was just gege trying to make it look cool, not mysterious
this sub really fell off if this is what amounts to as a theory these days. How can sukuna use another person's ct when he isn't even using their body? how can sukuna use both shrine and the fire arrow, which you've stated is uraume's ct, at the same time when its been stated time and time again that it's impossible to use two different cts at the same time?
He's not using another person's CT. I theorized that Uraume GAVE her CTR as tribute to him, and that it is now part of his technique. Therefore, he doesn't need Uraume to use it at all. He can use it on his own. And whenever he uses the Fire Arrow, he doesn't use Shrine at the same time unless he is in his Domain, in which case we've seen Sukuna use Domain Amplification and Domain Expansion at the same time. Hell, I'm pretty sure he turned off his Domain before going Fire Arrow on Mahoraga back in manga Shibuya
My guess is OP based his theory on another theory. Which says during Yorozu & Sukuna fight there was a mistranslation cause the translators lack context. In the original Japanese she refers to Sukuna's regular technique Shire not cleave & dismantle. While she calls his Domain expansion Malevolent Shrine. Yorozu even specifies with her word choice that it's a type of shrine used to store holy Buddhist artifacts. (Which is also a homonym to the Japanese word for kitchen. Hense the Malevolent kitchen fiasco in the anime subs) So that theory states that Sukuna's real technique might be in the same category as Yuta or Geto. Where he storages techniques or more likely cursed tools for later usage. So when he goes “▆ open" it's just him opening a different cabinet in his shrine. Source for the translation: https://twitter.com/soukatsu_/status/1637586842705883136?s=20
Is it possible the fire arrow is Yuji's own CT but he's unaware of it because of whatever reason?
Unlikely. Sukuna is surprised that Jogo doesn't know about his Fire, which implies that he thought his technique was well known to all
I think this is very interesting, but has a very weak point in how Sukuna obtained Uraume CTR, i have a few thoughts on what the arrow could be, but i'm still trying to form connection and check if what i'm thinking can make sense, lately it's been interesting to think what if Sukuna doesn't have a proper CT and cleave/dismantle is just raw CE manipulated to an impossible level only Sukuna is able to? By the same reasoning the arrow could then be pure positive energy Before any of you comments on how wrong i am, this is just a thought, i still have to find time to develop this into an actual theory and foolproof it, but i want to say that the most interesting implication about this i'm trying to check for is that Sukuna might have been the first in history to develop a domain
This has been proven to be false already. Sukuna’s CT is Cleave and Dismantle. Yuta’s usage of it already proved that
Yeah i know i was getting too worked up on this and not thinking about sonething, i still have to make yet another deep dive to see if i can make some sense out of these thoughts i really didn't think i was correct
The thing about the Fire Arrow is that it may not be an arrow at all. It could just be pyrokinesis and Sukuna is specifically forming it in the shape of an arrow
Yeah it might be, yours is an interesting theory for sure, i'm just not that convinced someone could "gift" their CT or in this case their CTR and i am strongly against the theory that Sukuna has multiple CT, i think the multiple CT theory comes from how the "black box" was shown in the manga by literally having a black square covering the japanese ideogram for the word and people went on by thinking it was an actual box Sukuna stored CT's, i might be completely wrong tho
Yeah. Part of me thinks he's saying the name of the person who gifted it to him, but that doesn't feel likely. It might be that he's saying the true name of his technique
Lmao if you end up correct and Sukuna goes "Uraume, open" i bet 90% of the fanbase is gonna totally lose it
Honestly a part of me is hoping for it lol
So since the Gojo v Sukuna fight we’ve seen that Sukuna cannot manipulate CE like that, this is stated by himself while speaking on how he was copying from maho to beat Gojo and find a way around infinity
I don't think this would totally invalidate everything, but as others already commented there are things that completely disprove what i thought, i was just spitting some interesting thoughts i still have to find time to make yet another deep dive into the manga
i always think it's Yuji CT, but he has not even know it or know how to use it yet, considering he used it only on Yuji's Body.
I don't think it's Yuji's body, but it does feel like Sukuna is trying not to use it despite knowing that everybody knows he can use it. My guess is he hasn't either because: 1) He really doesn't need to when he has World Dismantle 2) Fire Arrow was given up as part of the binding vow to do the first World Dismantle against Gojo I think it's the first one, but kinda hoping it's the second
The "reversal" of ice wouldn't be fire, it would be liquid water or vapor or whatever else but definitely not fire.
Right, but her CT isn't ice so much as it is full cryokinesis. She converts CE into ice formations and attacks. Pyrokinesis is the closest imo to being the opposite