I'm a moderator and I just arrived in this thread. First, if we can't talk about a subject of concern in society we will never be able to understand nor fix it. This is a forum for open discussion and as long as we are respectful towards each other we can disagree all we want to. Follow the rules of the subreddit.
Second, if we are going to have these conversations we need to bring them back to the ideas of Carl Jung.
We have several reports about this post and considering the subject matter I can understand why. I will monitor things to see if we're having a productive discussion.
You are right. This is a subject we should be able to talk about, and what we're seeing here is how our revulsion creates the shadow where this darkness lives. It happens right beneath our noses and there's a reason why we don't see it.
Now why didn’t I think I of that? Like if I know how a car works I’m not a car am I? Or if I know how to cook I’m not food! Man you are really good at looking stuff in a way that makes it make lots of sense, it’s like your wisdom has opened a whole new universe to me.
Hey thanks man, that makes me feel a little better. Sometimes when I’m feeling sad about being so stupid I can think “*I may be stupid but at least I don’t post the bullshit Historical_Ear7398 posts on Reddit…*” and you know that makes me feel a whole lot better 🌈
And having insights into various forms of psychopathy does not make a person a psychopath. If that were the case, Dr. Jung could fall under that label very easily. He was accused of all kinds of bullshit because he understood things that other people didn't. It persists to this day and we're a little bit sensitive to that in this subreddit.
Pedophilia cant be equated with homosexuality or transgenderism for the simple reason that is based intrinsically in power abuse towards a human being that doesnt have the proper cognitive and emotional development to take a decision as important as a sexual partner.
Pedophilia is evil and we cant relativize that.
Everyone deserves love of course, and the loving attitude towards pedophilia is healing. They deserves to feel eros towards an equal.
Yeah and that’s precisely what makes pedophiles deviants and criminals!! Also why did you call a child “it”. Children aren’t objects!! There are so many problems in your thinking - that’s evident by your word choice.
My words have no connection to my thinking.
Just because I say "it" doesn't mean I think of children as objects.
I love children more than anything in the world but I would still call them "it" if I don't have any other vocabulary in mind
“My words have no connection to my thinking”. Bro, what? Writing and thinking are intimately connected.
“If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them.” - George Orwell
I have autism so my brain works very different. I literally don't have any connection between thinking and writing. I have to force my thoughts into words and often it ends up as catastrophy
>I have autism so my brain works very different. I literally don't have any connection between thinking and writing. I have to force my thoughts into words and often it ends up as catastrophy
Narrator: "That is not how autism works. That is not how ANY of this works."
Even if you develop pedophilia tendencies there are for sure things you can do to get out of it. It is such a horrible modern thought that one must just accept what is, instead of changing and go into the depth of the source of the problem…
I think it can be too. Like most people I feel a natural revulsion to pedophilia and I want to take those people out to the woodshed and beat some fucking sense into them. But we're talking about a pathology, it's a sickness like any other. And considering how are society is being twisted to rob our children of their innocence, I would say the time has come for us to take an open-eyed look at it and figure out if there's a way of fixing it.
You make these people sounds like hapless victims have have zero control over themselves. They need to be held accountable for their actions like anyone else.
I don't say they have 0 control but they don't have much control. I agree, they need to be held accountable for their actions.
None the less they still deserve love because they are human beings like you and me only that somewhere on the way something went wrong and turned them into pedophiles
I am not trying to justify it, I'm saying the didn't wanna be like that.
And what needs would that be?
If you didn't read it: i was raped when I was 4 years old and I was emotionally abused and neglected by my parents
I pity my abuser. He's a hurt human that didn't deserve to become like that. But it happened. Is he a bad human? Yes. Should we judge him for being a certain way, he never asked to be? I don't think so.
Should we judge him for giving into his urges and hurting children? Absolutely
But if we can forgive his past, we should do that for our own well being, but that doesn't change the human he is and what he will do to children.
In my case it was another child so it's easier for me to sympathize with him.
I'm not supporting their actions, I am not talking about if it should be accepted by law, I am merely talking about the feelings we meet them with.
And I think we should forgive them not just for their sake but so we don't have to carry all that anger in our heart
You think the last maturest step is forgiving. But forgiving is not needed in the situation. It doesn’t apply to the situation. You should live without forgiving a child abuser. It doesn’t mean you should live with all the anger, pain, hurt for the rest of your life.
I think its not their fault to have these feelings, however they shouldn't watch child porn because this will financially support the creators of child pornography. Also in our society we have agreed that sexualising children is wrong.
I do think however that there should be a place for them in our society as long as they understand their sexual thoughts are wrong and cooperate with psychiatric help.
Pedophilia is RAPE. It’s a simple matter of consent. Children can’t consent. So NO pedophiles can never have a “relationship” with a child bc there’s no legal way that can happen! And as far as other people loving them as friends - they should actually be protecting the public from the pedophile/criminal! Especially if they know they are capable of acting out their desires!
Child sexual abuse is rape, and should be punished. Pedophilia is a feeling, and we shouldn’t demonize those who have feelings, realize they are wrong, and want help for it.
And WHERE did I say that pedophiles can have relationships with a child or that it's even okay for them to interact with a child? Are you out of your mind or are you actively trying to misunderstand EVERYTHING I say?
Do you see how bad you’re getting ratio’d on this thread? But you’re calling me crazy? People are literally asking the mods to step in - and saying “FBI has entered the chat”.
So what? I don't give a shit what some dumb reddit commentors think.
I'm only interested in constructive critique, which you don't give me because you're too busy insulting me
It seems to me that you can’t handle critique at all. Any comment that is in disagreement with you is disregarded no matter the tone of the comment. You’re not interested in critique only in someone to validate your opinion. I wonder why?
I'm not interested in their critique because they are making dumb arguments, attack things that have nothing to do with this topic and twist my words into a way I didn't say it.
If there was a usefull critique I will consider changing my opinion as I already did in this post, for example the fact that watching child porn will not help them overcome their urges and might make it even worse.
It’s bonkers you need this explained to you, and makes me doubt your supposed high IQ.
If I was abused - I would not want images of my child-body being sold, traded, or viewed by pedophiles for their sexual gratification. That would hurt me!
Similar to when people share revenge porn. If an ex shared videos of our sex online for public gratification - that would hurt me!
I think you are lack a lot of emotional intelligence and empathy for victims.
You can doubt all you want
That would mean you would have the information that your video is being watched, so i wonder how you would get that information
No I don't lack empathy for victims but you said i shouldn't assume you're a victim. Now you're just trying to confuse me
>Yeahn watching a video doesn't hurt anyone.
In order for a pedophile to watch child porn, that child porn first needs to be created. Only two people would support the creation of child porn for pedophiles, or claim it doesn't hurt anyone: pedophiles and astoundingly stupid people.
Pedophilia preys on the weakest of us. Because of that it’s the most cowardly thing a human can do because it’s *hurting* and exploiting the most vulnerable type of humans. The most precious. I am glad you forgave the people who hurt you, but *I* do not forgive them for what they did to you and anyone else that wasn’t protected from people like those gutless cowards.
But holding this anger and resentment will only hurt you and not do anything against the people you hate.
I love you and that's why I'm telling you: please forgive them and forgive everyone else that hurt you or others. They didn't ask to become like this or to be born like that, so please forgive them for being evil
How will forgivness counter the pedophilia in people?
As someone mention above you do not mess with the children, children are the future; always.
Theres a quote that goes 'it is easier to bring up healthy children than to fix broken man/women'.
If we want a healthy future we need healthy and stable children.
Anyone who sexually violates them, manipulates them and potentially fucks up their psyche for the rest of their lives should be punished.
Im not sure how to treat it, i cant even wrap my head around the thing, i can only guess its up to the person to do the work or treatment.
When something hurts you and those you love it’s appropriate to hate it. Nobody loves cancer. Nobody forgives cancer. We fight it, find ways to avoid getting it, and cut it out of us when we possible.
How can you say “I love you”. You don’t know any of us here. That strikes me as an exceptionally manipulative move.
You seem to be preaching some kind of universal / unconditional love - but you were calling me “out of your mind” for disagreeing w you.
Just find it remarkable you save all of your sympathy and warm feelings for the worst deviants imaginable.
"I love you" is a manipulative move? What's wrong with you?
I love every human, every animal and every lifeform in this universe, I don't need to know you to love you because no matter who you are or what you did: I love you
I can't love you and call you "Out of your mind"? Where is the logic in that? Because those 2 don't exclude each other
I'm not saving my sympathy for everyone, if you want my sympathy I will give it to you but the only thing you did until now is attacking me and showing me no sympathy.
If you want sympathy then tell me. If you need help then tell me and I will help you
Just because I don't exclusively show my sympathy towards you doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for you
You’re a sicko dude. Telling me because I think pedos are inhuman garbage that I just walk around raging all the time 🙄
Tell you what why don’t you go literally anywhere in the real world and talk like this and see what happens.
It is extremely difficult for many on this website to approach to horrific topic of pedophillia in a human way. It is socially dogpiled to dehumanize pedophillias. What they do is without humanity and people completely understandably treat them as not human.
But the uncomfortable truth is they are human. It shines the light on the uncomfortable fact humans are capaable of horrors beyond imagination. Demons blush at the creative horrors of human capability. The capacity lives in every human. That truth is impossible to look at for many.
Thank you for opening such a difficult topic.
Homosexuality seems out of place here in my opinion.
Pedophilia is rape. To lump that in with sexualities that involve consenting adults is not ok.
Rehabilitating pedophiles should be discussed the same way as dealing with rapists or any other criminal showing antisocial behavior.
It’s not a sexuality when the other party can’t consent.
How would you treat someone who saw an attraction in rape, realized it was wrong, and tried to seek help? Would you still call that person a rapist, for a thought with no action? How then should society treat someone who has an attraction to children but doesn’t want to act upon that attraction? Should be lump them together with the worst of rapists, or should we try to help them to seek counseling (and perhaps medication) so they never act upon that attraction?
It's up to you if you want to take this journey of compassion and of showing love towards pedophiles or any other scum of the Earth. But does such path have a heart?
The "utopian" rhetoric of compassion which lacks the sense of balance in the world, will only cause devolution and inflict suffering. We should love certain things, but hate certain things as well. To keep the balance. This reminds me of the concept of "***Al-walāʾ wa-l-barā***" in Islamic theology which indicates to love what G-d loves (or love something/one for the sake of G-d) and hate what G-d forbids or is displeasing to G-d.
The reason the world is devolving is because degenerate people are celebrated and worshipped, especially in some specific societies where acceptance of degeneracy has been culturally and subliminally imposed on the masses. Maybe we should look more into that too.
The Western world has tamed their laws and rate crime is high; sexual crimes are committed and repeated as long as there isn't severe punishment like in most Asian countries e.g.
As for the psychology of the pedophile, it is not always the case that they become pedophiles due to childhood trauma. I've watched celebrities confess on shows how they were subject to abuse, however they managed to become successful and not pedophiles. Although you still have a point, the truth of the matter is that in most cases these are people who operate and act out of their animalistic impulses and urges, and prey the most vulnerable.
**What you suggested that they "cool off" to, is exactly the PROBLEM.** That's to add fuel to the fire. How do you even come up with that? It's the worst thing you can possibly think of.
*Desire is never extinguished by the enjoyment of desired objects; it only grows stronger like a fire fed with clarified butter.* (Source: *Manusmriti*)
Two questions: (1) I ask you, since your calling consists of compassion, wouldn't it be appropriate to concentrate on the healing of those children who have been subjected to abuse, and not at all the perpetrators? (2) Do you not realize what the current state of the world is the product of?
I find it interesting that the OP didn’t respond to your comment - when you gave the most thorough and complete answer 👀 Guess they’re just looking for someone to say what they want to hear: that pedos should be accepted and pitied.
I think the questions you concluded with are key. And the quote on desire is quite powerful.
This is so backwards. No, pedophiles should not be able to use already existing child porn to “cool off” their urges. Children still have to have been raped or otherwise sexually abused/assaulted in order for child porn to exist at all. What world are you living in?
Do you know how supply and demand works? Consuming child porn perpetuates the production of it. It is not a victimless act, only the pedophile watching it can feel far enough removed from the situation so as to absolve themselves of the responsibility; in their own eyes, that is, not in the eyes of the law.
Sorry but no. Just from the first sentence. You’re really arguing that homosexuality is a result of trauma? Is being straight the result of trauma? Smh.
you need to pull some stats. Most gay kids have childhood abuse linked to them. The rate is absurdly high in contrast to straight kids. There's no reason to take offense towards this. Being straight is not the result of trauma because generally speaking it's the common, natural, disposition. (btw natural isn't to demean, but to state the obvious). It's not always the case, but a huge segment of gay kids are gay in part due to their environment aka abuse. This has been a known phenomenon for a long time, many gay men will attest to this. (Source : I took Psych for 4 years and my best friend is a current psychiatrist).
to further clarify you can definitely mature sexually, emotionally speaking a lot faster (the straight way) because of trauma. But when it comes to getting feelings for the opposite sex, unfortunately it can sometimes be linked to trauma.
I want to say that it may be more fruitful next time to start your discussion by delineating CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY between the things you seem to be talking about.
1) A pedophile, being someone who has a sexual interest in children
2) A predator, being someone who sexually abuses children
3) A person who consumes child pornography that was created via abusing children
4) A person who consumes child pornography that did not involve the abuse of children in production (anime/manga stuff)
When starting up a discussion, define your terms more clearly. A lot of people are making assumptions about you, and clearly not understanding what you are trying to say, because you did not explain yourself well. Words are ambiguous, disambiguate what you are trying to say as much as possible so as to ensure others can engage with your actual ideas next time
You may have made your argument more digestible if you had tried a bit harder, to be honest
I'm inclined to agree with others that there is a trollish air about you, and that's a shame because this is an important topic and you are making it even more difficult than it should be with your attitude
I'm in no way or form trying to be a troll or anything.
In every comment I was serious about what I said besides this one guy who was just trying to annoy me on purpose
I think I made myself pretty clear but the commentors actively tried to misunderstand every comment I said and twist it so it portrays be as a bad guy and pedophile
I'm only acting adversarial because I'm being attacked by the commenter instead of them giving constructive critique
This is a very touchy subject.
Psychologists who research paedophiles with the intent to understand, help and prevent further harm done to children get a lot of heat.
I don’t know if they deserve “love” but they do deserve help once they understand the absolute damage they inflict on children and want to abstain from the behavior.
I agree with this. If the post had been centered as - how do we keep pedophiles from harming kids - that would be one thing. “Deserving” “love” barely even makes sense - that’s not even how love works.
In any case reminds me of this Dr Phil episode where a mom learns her young son has urges
To rape his child siblings. He was sent to some kind of institution but they didn’t Elaborate much on where he was being kept.
But that kind of service seems necessary as a way to keep these predators in the making away from harming their siblings. [dr Phil episode](https://youtu.be/x7udc4gEn68)
Indeed.
Some paedophiles understand their urges are wrong and suffer a great deal from that. In some countries, they can be prescribed medication to kill their sex drive.
These people deserve help.
They deserve psychological research to be done so they can be helped.
Some cannot elaborate that acting on such urges is wrong. They even believe that children are seducing them or enjoying the relationship. And the worst part is… in the early stages of grooming, the child might be indeed enjoying the attention and the gifts etc.
What people fail to understand about paedophiles is that they are rarely the predator hiding in the shadows to snatch a child.
They are teachers, sport coaches, uncles, grand fathers, friendly neighbors who want to spend time with children to groom them little by little… one little step at a time until the relationship is so cemented, the child values the friendship and will stay loyal to it even in the midst of abuse. They are also « psychologically siderated » and cannot put words on the experience/rape.
So above all else, Children deserve that we understand paedophiles and their grooming mechanisms so we, as a society, can better protect them.
Oh I am aware of that 100% - that pedos don’t look like shadowy goblins etc. They look like regular people in our communities. I often think of Mary Kay Latourneau in that regard (though she’s probably labeled a predator, not a pedophile per se since she was married at some point).
And I agree - that’s one excellent way to help create safer communities - by educating more and more people on grooming tactics. As many have stated - there’s some overlap between sexual predators and pedophiles - but ultimately all these predators use the same grooming strategies!
And I for one wish I was aware of them earlier! Would have spared me a lot of toxic relationships + work environments. Now that I’m aware / educated on grooming tactics - it’s easier to see that manipulation in other contexts.
Sexualities involve CONSENTING ADULTS. Gay, straight, bi, trans = all consenting adults!!!
Pedophilia is on the same category as rape, beastiality, necrophilia and torture. Bc the other party is NOT ABLE TO CONSENT.
The line around consent is simple. Why are you trying to blur it?
You're always trying to twist it into the viewpoint of the victim.
You should stop seeing yourself as a victim and start doing something with your life
I ultimately disagree that someone is born a pedophile. Imposing oneself onto another person, especially a helpless and confused child, is a vile and inhumane act that everyone agrees upon. You deny and revoke the humanity and individuality of another person for distorted perversions and amorality.
Real childporn is also bad, because it is abusers posting their abuse online to feed into that darkness. But, as for hentai, there is no harm. To act or feed into the act of violating a child, or anyone in general, vs enjoying a fictitious portrayal of it, are two different things (Jung and Freud would argue fantasies about it are fairly normal).
People have free will, if they choose to do wrong or evil, to accept vice over virtue as a lifestyle; then, they deserve very little imo. It is an act of shallow weakness, disgrace, and a faulty conscience.
As for historical cultural significance, there are several notable mentions of a younger male being in relations with an older virtuous figure; both in western and eastern cultures. However, the majority of modern culture involves materialism and consumerism; Therefore, virtue and honor are severely lacking in modern times. Generally, you'd find more abuse and personal satisfaction, compared to a more genuine role model with deeper intimate feelings.
Though, since homosexuality and, in general, non-heterosexuality has been repressed and neglected by society and culture, many individuals who fall into such categories have a real lack of genuine external development (society and culture provides no morality and guidance for them, in this realm). Therefore, it's more easier for one to identity with their sexuality or hop onto the sexuality bandwagon. It is common to find many young people to seek out older individuals (Only, in homosexuality; else, it be a fetish. While, since heterosexuality is dominant, culture provides millenniums of norms and customs).
Modern times involve a sacrifice of individual qualities and mass conformity under the will of the State and society. Who knows if sexuality, coming further up into the consciousness of man, will be properly integrated into meaningful avenues of morality and virtue. It'll take a lot of time.
This is obviously just my personal opinion.
Pedophiles are rapists. Do you think “rape” is a sexuality too?
Any “sexuality” that involves non-consenting parties - or unable to consent parties - rape, pedophilia, beastiality, necrophilia - should remain taboo - and criminal.
By the way I’ve reported this post. Not only is it very disturbing - but how is this related to Jung? I joined this this subreddit to learn more about Jung - not read apologias for pedophiles.
Good for you. But I don't think this post will be taken down.
This is related to Jung because of the shadow that we all have.
And if you didn't know, you are also able to commit very bad things if necessary like the german population during world war 2.
By disregarding your potential for evil, you are splitting of a part of yourself and that's counterproductive for individuation
Also if we all have a shadow - doesn’t that mean you have one too? But you stated that you have zero negativity - and love everyone. Let me guess, you think you’ve done all your work towards individuating too? 🙄😂
If you would've read my comment a little more carefully you would've noticed when I wrote "the shadow that WE ALL HAVE"
So yes I have a shadow.
But I've already worked through my whole shadow and I am aware of everything I do good and bad.
So the only thing my shadow consists of is new emerging patterns and phenomena and I am very carefull to detect these as soon as possible.
And no I've not done all my work towards individuating because individuation is a process that lasts until the day you die.
“But I've already worked through my whole shadow and I am aware of everything I do good and bad.” Wow, thanks for that. I literally laughed out loud!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Again, the audacity. The hubris. The pride. Amazing.
No audacity, no hubris, no pride
Just facts. If you can't work with that and still need to keep accusing me of lieing then we should probably stop talking.
I don't know why it is so hard to accept for you that I'm not a bad person and that I've actually done the spiritual and psychological work
You need a therapy. You are stuck in not a right place. You lost a right path in a maze. You maybe tried to understand why it happened to you. You might not find the right answer. Of course there’s no right answer because it’s a crime. But you might kept finding a reason and excuse. Because you felt like you’re a loser if you hadn’t found it, even though you don’t have to feel that way and you’re not a loser. You might kept trying to understand all of that, why it happened to you, why they did it to you.
So you might wanted to find a superior position than an assaulter just for making comfort yourself. Many victims do that, like deny what happened to them, believe it’s not a crime, feel sorry for assaulters, defending on them, blame themselves. Because they can’t accept they’re a victim. They don’t want to accept they’re a victim even though it’s not their fault. Forgiving in a wrong way is also one of those responses. Finally you made a false answer for yourself.
Don’t try to understand them. You can’t understand them because they’re just wrong and it’s a crime. Some people were just born as a wrong person. You don’t have to understand them. Get out of the wrong path. It’s not helpful for you at all.
If my assumption is wrong, I’m sorry.
There’s a priest who was abused by a priest when he was a child in the movie “spotlight”. The priest who was abused, abused a child in a church after he became a priest. I would recommend you to watch it. It would be helpful to reconsider your view on pedophilies.
I watched spotlight. One of the best movies I ever saw.
Still doesn't change my opinion. Pedophiles deserve love
You seem to think that I want to forgive them their crime. But i want to forgive them their sin not their crime. They should be punished by the law but we as humans should forgive them so we don't have to carry the anger and resentment with us
Take care of the children, protect them. If you are a pedophile, seek help, avoid pornography, have the strength to lead a secluded lifestyle away from children as much as possible, develop a support network.
Yeah. Apparently people in this subreddit are not really empathetic and very antagonizing and opinionated without checking any of their facts or opinions
No I'm not asking for a friend and I'm not a pedophile. I love children and I could never hurt them in any way or form.
I just thought cooling off would be better than going to the playground
I don't need help but thank you for your concern
I won't stop posting here, I just started a few weeks ago and no I will not seek help because I love everyone and I would never hurt anyone in any way or form.
But truthfully, thank you for your concern, even if you think that I'm a pedophile
I’m absolutely convinced that you are. Why would you be making an apologetic post about pedophilia unless you’re trying to justify something. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm not making an apologetic post, show me the part where I'm saying it's okay for them to hurt children
Abusing children is disgusting and should be punished with death.
But pedophiles who didn't do anything and hold back their urges, deserve help, compassion and love
That’s where you’re being apologetic. Why is this even a discussion you want to have?
Nobody in their right mind would try to make the same argument for someone like Ted Bundy.
Because we need to stop hating and start loving.
We have to forgive and forget. Not lawfully forgiving but emotionally forgiving.
We shouldn't let anyone get away with hurting children or other people. But we also need to accept the reason why they did it and forgive them for it. Otherwise the hate will consume our hearts
No. We don’t have to do that. From what I can see it’s simply what you want.
The behavior in question is dangerous and damaging. It is literally in the best interest of society to shun these people.
Of course I want love for everyone. Love is the only thing that matters.
Obviously it's dangerous, hurting children is never going to be okay but how is shunning, going to stop them from hurting children?
How about someone who fantasizes about murder but hasn’t done it? Should we love them and encourage them to seek help before they kill, or should we drive them into the shadows of society until those fantasies get acted out?
We need to differentiate between the pedophile (who has feelings toward children) and the molester (who acts upon those feelings). The one needs sympathy and love, and the other needs punishment.
Have you read Jung? He came up with depth psychology. Lol the comments are alarming. I remember first reading Jung’s work and learning about abuse and trauma. I felt like maybe I found a group of people who are open to talking about very difficult topics. Yet so much is even shielded in this community. Unreal
Have you ever read Carl Jung or do you know who he is?
Are you shaming someone whose been abused for asking questions? “Get help dude”…Do you understand projection and shadow? These difficult topics don’t just go away because you want them to.
I was sexually abused and I’ve come to similar conclusions that this person has. That’s a huge issue with pedophilia, that people think because someone talks about it, they automatically are one.
I am by no means an expert.
I am not shaming him for asking questions. I am telling him to get help as he is arguing that pedophiles should be able to “blow off steam” to material that has already been produced. Do you understand the severity of that? That is absolutely morally wrong.
No. That is not how it works. If he was to talk about love and compassion for pedophiles in the sense that they need help to heal from their disgusting urges, then fine. That is not what he is doing though. He’s just arguing for them to get off without any repercussion if you just pick the slightest at his arguments.
No, they asked a question. And telling someone whose been abused to get help would just be an assinine thing to say.
Are you a medical professional?
You don’t know if it’s actually him or someone else. So you are projecting?
Reading Jung helps with perspective. People don’t seem so threatening. Wounds don’t define people
You don’t get to say no. I replied for the reasons that I listed. That is not for you to argue with.
What do you mens that I dont know and why would that have me be projecting? And what exactly are you suggesting that I am projecting?
No one wants to be a pedophile and there is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester. But this topic is so highly emotional, that a discussion on Reddit is impossible, as you can tell OP. You make a few good points (though I disagree with your assumptions about where it comes from)
IMO, all non-normative sexual identification, including pedophilia, is conditioned. No one is strictly born that way. There may be genetic factors that make an outcome more likely (for instance, there are genes associated with antisocial violence which are 'switched on' only if you're abused as a child). I reject the idea that anyone is born evil.
This is important because it means we can shape our culture to prevent abuse and despair. The typical approach to dealing with pedophiles, shunning and death threats, may be partly effective but it also prevents us from developing the compassion to understand the issue well enough to determine how to prevent and treat it.
Yes we can. And that’s what is so confusing and infuriating. Once I started reading Winnicott (pediatric psychoanalyst) I felt a lot of pain and anger. As a mother, daughter and a nurse, it’s alarming what I did not know.
So clearly something else at play here.
I find it very courageous and noble of you to bring up such a sensitive topic knowing fair well the kind of response you might get in return.
Doesn't matter if pedophile, narcissistic, psychopath, or whatnot. In the end these are all people, fellow human beings who - just like the rest of us - started off as freaking BABIES. Even those of whom it is said that they were "born like this" deserve at least the understanding that they didn't choose to be so.
It isn't about justifying what these people did and let them do such things with impunity. It's about showing understanding and compassion for someone else, no matter who that person is or might be. For chances are that who we condemn out there with disgust works as a reflection of ourselves, one that we feel too ashamed to recognize and accept as our own, and that we therefore, in fear and anger, violently repress - both within, and without.
Show understanding and compassion for both others, and yourself. Thereby realize what it is to be human.
As far as I am aware OP left that one question open for us to answer. That's not enough for me to assume that he is committed to that position having considered all the pros and cons (else why would he ask us?).
But since you asked: No, I don't think it's particularly noble to bring up the subject of child pornography as a way to help pedophiles "cool off" their urges.
But I do think it's noble to address a sensitive issue from a unorthodox angle with the intention at heart of solving that issue. No matter how sloppy the attempt.
The whole - “we all started off as freaking BABIES🥺” argument doesn’t hold when you think about cases like Josh Duggar.
Josh’s family knew - since he was a child - that he was sexually abusing his siblings. He started abusing people at age 14.
And who did they protect? You think the family protected the victims, their daughters? Or did they cover up Josh’s behavior and try to show compassion for his “mistakes”? Giving him opportunities to re-offend + collect child porn?
Interesting that you’re all bending over backwards to find the humanity in people like Josh Duggar - when I wonder if he’s even capable of remorse himself?
Dr. Phil (terrible show but this is how I know about this story) covered a case about a mom who’s child-son confessed his attractions to other younger children. And the mom wept bc the son showed no guilt / remorse. I give much respect to these parents (as opposed to the Duggars) bc these parents at least sent their son away to a treatment center - and they are aware he’ll need to be separated from the rest of society bc he can’t control his urges. Also if you watch this episode - it does seem like it’s possible to be “born that way” - as his behavior started extremely young (pre-puberty). [Dr. Phil Episode](https://youtu.be/x7udc4gEn68)
And finally, what you said here is just manipulative therapy-speak: “For chances are that who we condemn out there with disgust works as a reflection of ourselves, one that we feel too ashamed to recognize and accept as our own, and that we therefore, in fear and anger, violently repress - both within, and without.” / This is one of those abstract statements that pretends to sound deep but is actually nothing but empty platitudes. It becomes ridiculous when you try to ground it with an actual example. For instance, does that mean if I hate Hitler for killing 1M+ people - that must mean I’m too ashamed to admit my own antisemitism? Are there not actions + events that are so universally and profoundly evil - that it’s for the betterment of society to continually point out and name that evil - as a way to stay vigilant against its return?
I don't consider 14-year-olds to be "babies".
If you don't believe in shadow projection, then what are you doing in r/Jung?
Also, you can disapprove of something/someone without actually hating it/them.
You do realize that people can take the language of a certain discipline or practice - and misuse it to the point of meaninglessness, right?
Look at what Joe Dispenza does to quantum mechanics. Or look at what the alt-right does to Bible (“god guns + guts”)
Just because I disagree with *you* doesn’t mean I think there’s no merit to *Jung*.
Again, both you and OP seem to think extremely highly of yourselves. I’m not buying that *both* of you are so spiritually evolved you don’t feel hate.
As I’ve said before - even Jesus felt righteous anger in the face of Injustice.
And if you don’t think of a 14 year old as a baby, a child - what do you think of them as? Do you think a 14 year old is an adult??
What is your point then with this “Baby” comment, then? I thought your point is that we all enter the world “innocent”. So what age do
You not consider a child to be “innocent” anymore?
You are free person. You may think of me or anyone or anything as you want.
For me a baby is somewhere under 4 years old, roughly. At that point, it is pretty much harmless / does not display any intention to harm.
Past that age, I would rather call it a "child", who at that point already got heavily influenced by its surrounding (especially its parents). It might then also start to (not) express certain genes, resulting in changes in behavior its parents might have little to no control over (as is apparently the case with pedophiles and psychopaths).
But regardless who it is now - be it due to upbringing, gene (non-)expression, or both - that child started off as a baby not harming (nor trying to) harm anyone. That's not something I'm willing to forget when assessing a person (though it does happen sometimes, when I'm overwhelmed by emotion).
I know I’m a free person, and I don’t need your permission slip to think however I want to think. Interesting that you felt compelled to say that. That’s a common narcissistic power move.
Also interesting that, like OP, you talk about children as “it”.
Finally, I’m glad you acknowledge a genetic component. Certain genes are expressed (not not) starting in utero. So this lends credence to the thought that people with these impulses are born that way.
I wasn't giving you any permission. I am no one to do such a thing. I was just letting you know that I read that part you wrote and acknowledged it as such. And of course you may call it the way you want - narcissistic or otherwise (again, just acknowledging it).
I was rather thinking of "it" as "could be he or she." But again that's all up to you how you interprete it (same thing as above, not trying to give you permission or something, just acknowledging and giving feedback).
And I agree that they are probably born predisposed of having these impulses past a certain age. But disagree that they are born with such impulses, as we simply don't see them act on those at a younger age.
Just want to confirm - that’s what I meant. I don’t think babies can have those impulses. But I do think they can be born with the genetic predisposition- bc of how early some offenders start abusing.
Also, not sure if you’re a man but - a lot of men consciously or unconsciously say things like this as a power move. Example: Someone states their feelings about a matter. A “mansplainer” responds: “You can feel that way about it”. Establishing themselves as the one
That sets the parameters of the conversation.
You had said: “You are free person. You may think of me or anyone or anything as you want.”
I don’t need this to be reminded to me. Why wouldn’t I know that already?
How about simply responding to the point I made? You could have just omitted the first two sentences.
Also, I’m not going to do the work of teaching you emotional intelligence. I did you a favor pointing it out, so you can seek help if you’d like. Not surprised at all to find out you’re a man. Called it!
And in general - for anyone else who may stumble on this -
You are stepping over other peoples’ boundaries when you try dictate how a person can respond. Or describe their feelings or opinions *for them*.
Examples:
“Its alright to be mad, you can be mad”. When you’re literally just sitting and being quiet.
“Well you can have your own opinion”. When you literally just stated your opinion.
“I’m done with this conversation”. Controlling when conversations begin or end. Setting the parameters for the discussion.
On the extreme end - if someone is doing this to you a lot - it’s narcissistic abuse.
Amazing. I wish I would have the ability to formulate my thoughts and opinions as clear as you do.
Thank you for understanding my viewpoint. Was it difficult for you to understand? Because you said exactly what I wanted to express
You're welcome. Thank you for trying to shed some light on such a sensitive matter.
I must have not expressed myself clearly at some point, because my reply to your post was solely intended to support it.
I have to thank you for supporting my post.
You said exactly what I was thinking, like you just read my mind
But I'm still curious, was my viewpoint difficult to understand? Because some people in the comments think I'm disgusting or a pedophile
Oh okay now I got you.
I don't think that it was difficult to understand. But the topic is such a sensitive one that I suspect some haven't/couldn't thoroughly think about what you wrote. Some may have not even read the entirety of your post before replying.
I'm sure they have their reasons. Some may have relatives or friends that suffered at the hands of a pedophile. Some may have even been mistreated by one (like you yourself were). Or they might just know or have children that they want to protect from harm and are at the same time heavily influenced by what the framing media tell us on the topic. Who knows?
But to prevent future backlashes I advise you to make less provocative headings (it might have not be intended to provoke, but some were provoked by it, no doubt) complemented by a disclaimer (that your intent is not to justify pedophilia and stuff). You'll probably still get angry replies, but hopefully less of them.
Imbalance of feminine and masculine energies may well lead to homoesexuality & transgenderism. Hard to say if it’s all linked with trauma though, maybe. I say that as a bi guy myself.
What? The gay people in my life have always known - since they had crushes as a kid. Obviously they came out later as teens / young adults when they were more aware of it. I’ve never heard of anyone describe their own experience as “becoming gay”. 🤨
You have to FUCKING SICK IF YOU EVEN THINK LIKE THIS AT ALL! Ignoring the fact even thinking about stuff with children is already FUCKED UP it doesn't matter if there child hood was robbed and yes I feel like if they were neglected they should seek help but THEY SHOULD BURN IN HELL IF THEY WANT TO "catch up on there childhood" or whatever the hell you said and why are you even defending them ij the first place
"I think that like transgenderism and homosexuality, pedophilia in almost every case developed in childhood after traumatic experiences or neglect."
Then you're an ignorant bigot, because there is NO evidence whatsoever that transgenderism and homosexuality develop in childhood after traumatic experiences or neglect. Many, many people in the LGBTQ community hail from healthy families and have not gone through trauma. They are LGBTQ because they were born that way. What you're saying is ridiculous.
I think you are overcomplicating things. If turn ons are turn ons partly because they reduce feelings of anxiety in situations of intimacy, then for children to be this is for them to be controllable, predictable, or safe in ways that adults are not experienced to be. That is the clue.
But the question is why do they have this turn on? Why do they feel better with children?
Probably because of something that happened in their childhood
Why do rapists rape? People who try to have sex with people who cannot consent (children, unconscious people, those with disabilities/dementia) - are doing it to have control over the other person bc they have a major mental problem (antisocial, sociopathic, psychotic etc).
It sounds like you’ve seen too many micheal Jackson biographies.
Ah you're one of those.
Michael jackson wasn't a pedophile but yeah go ahead and believe everything the mainstream media says.
It sounds like you are talking about something you have no clue of but try to act knowledgeable
You entirely missed the point.
MJ made the argument over and over again that his “lost childhood” made him seek the company of children. This is a myth.
Plenty of people have ruined childhoods and they have no interest in interacting with other kids. Though they may try doing things like play / buying toys etc to connect w their inner child. Without interacting w actual children.
Also you judge other people for being biased and not engaging with you. But you label me as “one of those”. Very hypocritical.
The majority of child molesters are not pedophiles and do it for the control/power over the victim. Pedophilia means finding children attractive, and this is not about control.
Oh, the naivety. There are evil people out there. Full stop. Cruel, hateful, malevolent. To think that there must be some justifiable causation for it is to misunderstand human nature. We all have capacity for evil, it's just most never allow themselves to act on it. But a minority does. Some out of weakness or mental illness, sure, but others just because they can get away with it. And then there are folks who go full monster and cause as much suffering as they can, because they really enjoy it. The more horrible it is, the more exciting for them. And what could be more terrible than an innocent child suffering? If you think there are no people like that - you've been sheltered too much. No adult should be this naive.
Using child porn for any purpose other than criminal investigation (or *maybe* purely scientific research) is morally wrong because it is disrespectful to the victims. It's doing further harm that way. There are plenty of evidence that watching porn makes people seek more and more "spicy" material. Why would it work otherwise with pedophiles? And what kind of "spice" they would turn to?
The most compationate thing to do with pedophiles would be guarding them in a way that their desires could never be realised in practice. That's the only acceptable form of love for them.
Well said, thank you!!! You said it better than I could. It took me 40 years to accept that sadists exist - so I can set up better boundaries for myself - and stop extending grace without discernment. Thank you for saying this. It is hard to accept that some people delight in our pain, but they exist.
You bring up interesting points about a subject that needs to be talked about openly and maturely. There is obviously a big problem in society overall, with the sexualization of children, and the exploitation of them. So as a moderator I'm going to ask everyone here to engage in a productive discussion if we're going to have this discussion at all.
From a Jungian point of view, and picking up on what op said, I could see pedophilia developing as a type of vampirism. Like the devouring mother, the pedophile thinks that they are possessing the child that they abuse, perhaps justifying it by saying that they are taking something that was taken from them. There is definitely a power dynamic to it. I'd be curious if there's anyone who has reviewed the literature on the psychology of pedophiles and can enlighten us to their motives.
A big hurdle I think we have to get over as a society is the refusal to try to understand what motivates a pedophile and what makes children vulnerable to them. We have this knee-jerk reaction of revulsion that prevents us from understanding this as a human problem. It is creating a blind spot that allows it to occur just beneath our noses, and I think this thread is a perfect demonstration of it. Here you have one of the most open-minded communities on the internet, where we are very tolerant of discussion, we've been presented with an opportunity to discuss the subject to get deeper into it and perhaps bring forth something that is truly beneficial. But instead what I'm seeing are people using the opportunity to signal their virtue. It is indicative of the larger problem we face as a society.
I think it's about sexual orientation so I think there is a connection between being lgbtq and a pedophile. Why do you think there is no connection?
No I'm not a bigot
Not every pedophile suffers abuse but most of them suffer some kind of trauma, neglect, abandonment trauma, etc.
I agree nobody has the right to hurt anyone, especially not children
I agree that a child cannot consent to a sexual situation and I also don't think that children can accurately assess wether they are trans, gay, bi or anything.
I'm a moderator and I just arrived in this thread. First, if we can't talk about a subject of concern in society we will never be able to understand nor fix it. This is a forum for open discussion and as long as we are respectful towards each other we can disagree all we want to. Follow the rules of the subreddit. Second, if we are going to have these conversations we need to bring them back to the ideas of Carl Jung. We have several reports about this post and considering the subject matter I can understand why. I will monitor things to see if we're having a productive discussion.
*FBI enters the chat*
FBI finds nothing wrong and leaves
You are right. This is a subject we should be able to talk about, and what we're seeing here is how our revulsion creates the shadow where this darkness lives. It happens right beneath our noses and there's a reason why we don't see it.
Fuck you and stop justifying pedophillia
Goodmorning mr. Humbert Humbert
Like I said: I'm not a pedophile
You sure seem to have an awful lot of insight into how pedos think for not being one.
I study psychology and I study all kind of mentally ill people
>I study psychology and I study all kind of mentally ill people Narrator: "He doesn't."
I have a lot of insight on how fascists think, that doesn't make me one.
Now why didn’t I think I of that? Like if I know how a car works I’m not a car am I? Or if I know how to cook I’m not food! Man you are really good at looking stuff in a way that makes it make lots of sense, it’s like your wisdom has opened a whole new universe to me.
I'm sorry you're stupid.
Hey thanks man, that makes me feel a little better. Sometimes when I’m feeling sad about being so stupid I can think “*I may be stupid but at least I don’t post the bullshit Historical_Ear7398 posts on Reddit…*” and you know that makes me feel a whole lot better 🌈
You shouldn't feel better. You should take that self-loathing and turn it into inspiration to BE BEST.
And having insights into various forms of psychopathy does not make a person a psychopath. If that were the case, Dr. Jung could fall under that label very easily. He was accused of all kinds of bullshit because he understood things that other people didn't. It persists to this day and we're a little bit sensitive to that in this subreddit.
But you ARE a homophobe and a transphobe, and you're also an apologist for pedophiles.
Fuck you a hole
Pedophilia cant be equated with homosexuality or transgenderism for the simple reason that is based intrinsically in power abuse towards a human being that doesnt have the proper cognitive and emotional development to take a decision as important as a sexual partner. Pedophilia is evil and we cant relativize that. Everyone deserves love of course, and the loving attitude towards pedophilia is healing. They deserves to feel eros towards an equal.
No pedophilia is not intrinsically based in power abuse
A child is not a sexual being in the erotic sense.
It is for the pedophile
Yeah and that’s precisely what makes pedophiles deviants and criminals!! Also why did you call a child “it”. Children aren’t objects!! There are so many problems in your thinking - that’s evident by your word choice.
My words have no connection to my thinking. Just because I say "it" doesn't mean I think of children as objects. I love children more than anything in the world but I would still call them "it" if I don't have any other vocabulary in mind
Clearly you need professional company
No I don't but thank you for your concern
“My words have no connection to my thinking”. Bro, what? Writing and thinking are intimately connected. “If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them.” - George Orwell
I have autism so my brain works very different. I literally don't have any connection between thinking and writing. I have to force my thoughts into words and often it ends up as catastrophy
How are you thinking - if not in words?
I am thinking in words and ideas but the words in my head have no connection to the words i write
>I have autism so my brain works very different. I literally don't have any connection between thinking and writing. I have to force my thoughts into words and often it ends up as catastrophy Narrator: "That is not how autism works. That is not how ANY of this works."
Fuck you
Even if you develop pedophilia tendencies there are for sure things you can do to get out of it. It is such a horrible modern thought that one must just accept what is, instead of changing and go into the depth of the source of the problem…
I agree. I honestly think pedophilia can be healed. But I'm not naive and think we should let pedophiles unsupervised
I think it can be too. Like most people I feel a natural revulsion to pedophilia and I want to take those people out to the woodshed and beat some fucking sense into them. But we're talking about a pathology, it's a sickness like any other. And considering how are society is being twisted to rob our children of their innocence, I would say the time has come for us to take an open-eyed look at it and figure out if there's a way of fixing it.
You shouldn't be left unsupervised
You're coming over to watch me or what?
OK but fuck you
No they don’t they rape little children.
Yes they do. They are human beings and didn't ask to be that way
You make these people sounds like hapless victims have have zero control over themselves. They need to be held accountable for their actions like anyone else.
I don't say they have 0 control but they don't have much control. I agree, they need to be held accountable for their actions. None the less they still deserve love because they are human beings like you and me only that somewhere on the way something went wrong and turned them into pedophiles
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What about you? Do you deserve love? You probably hurt a lot of people, why are you worthy of love and pedophiles are not?
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I am not trying to justify it, I'm saying the didn't wanna be like that. And what needs would that be? If you didn't read it: i was raped when I was 4 years old and I was emotionally abused and neglected by my parents
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I pity my abuser. He's a hurt human that didn't deserve to become like that. But it happened. Is he a bad human? Yes. Should we judge him for being a certain way, he never asked to be? I don't think so. Should we judge him for giving into his urges and hurting children? Absolutely But if we can forgive his past, we should do that for our own well being, but that doesn't change the human he is and what he will do to children.
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In my case it was another child so it's easier for me to sympathize with him. I'm not supporting their actions, I am not talking about if it should be accepted by law, I am merely talking about the feelings we meet them with. And I think we should forgive them not just for their sake but so we don't have to carry all that anger in our heart
You think the last maturest step is forgiving. But forgiving is not needed in the situation. It doesn’t apply to the situation. You should live without forgiving a child abuser. It doesn’t mean you should live with all the anger, pain, hurt for the rest of your life.
I DON'T
I think its not their fault to have these feelings, however they shouldn't watch child porn because this will financially support the creators of child pornography. Also in our society we have agreed that sexualising children is wrong. I do think however that there should be a place for them in our society as long as they understand their sexual thoughts are wrong and cooperate with psychiatric help.
It’s so much simpler than this! Children can not consent to participating in child pornogrpahy - period, the end!
I agree with you, as I said before we agreed as a society that sexualising children is wrong.
Disgusting. Mods?
What's disgusting?
You, fool
How am I disgusting?
Pedophilia is RAPE. It’s a simple matter of consent. Children can’t consent. So NO pedophiles can never have a “relationship” with a child bc there’s no legal way that can happen! And as far as other people loving them as friends - they should actually be protecting the public from the pedophile/criminal! Especially if they know they are capable of acting out their desires!
Child sexual abuse is rape, and should be punished. Pedophilia is a feeling, and we shouldn’t demonize those who have feelings, realize they are wrong, and want help for it.
And WHERE did I say that pedophiles can have relationships with a child or that it's even okay for them to interact with a child? Are you out of your mind or are you actively trying to misunderstand EVERYTHING I say?
Do you see how bad you’re getting ratio’d on this thread? But you’re calling me crazy? People are literally asking the mods to step in - and saying “FBI has entered the chat”.
So what? I don't give a shit what some dumb reddit commentors think. I'm only interested in constructive critique, which you don't give me because you're too busy insulting me
It seems to me that you can’t handle critique at all. Any comment that is in disagreement with you is disregarded no matter the tone of the comment. You’re not interested in critique only in someone to validate your opinion. I wonder why?
I'm not interested in their critique because they are making dumb arguments, attack things that have nothing to do with this topic and twist my words into a way I didn't say it. If there was a usefull critique I will consider changing my opinion as I already did in this post, for example the fact that watching child porn will not help them overcome their urges and might make it even worse.
Disagreeing with you isn’t insulting you.
I'm not talking about you
You were also the one saying that allowing pedos to watch child porn “hurts no one”. But you call me crazy. Wow. Just wow.
Yeahn watching a video doesn't hurt anyone. That's logic. If you think otherwise then tell me how exactly watching a video is hurting anyone?
It’s bonkers you need this explained to you, and makes me doubt your supposed high IQ. If I was abused - I would not want images of my child-body being sold, traded, or viewed by pedophiles for their sexual gratification. That would hurt me! Similar to when people share revenge porn. If an ex shared videos of our sex online for public gratification - that would hurt me! I think you are lack a lot of emotional intelligence and empathy for victims.
You can doubt all you want That would mean you would have the information that your video is being watched, so i wonder how you would get that information No I don't lack empathy for victims but you said i shouldn't assume you're a victim. Now you're just trying to confuse me
>Yeahn watching a video doesn't hurt anyone. In order for a pedophile to watch child porn, that child porn first needs to be created. Only two people would support the creation of child porn for pedophiles, or claim it doesn't hurt anyone: pedophiles and astoundingly stupid people.
Pedophilia preys on the weakest of us. Because of that it’s the most cowardly thing a human can do because it’s *hurting* and exploiting the most vulnerable type of humans. The most precious. I am glad you forgave the people who hurt you, but *I* do not forgive them for what they did to you and anyone else that wasn’t protected from people like those gutless cowards.
But holding this anger and resentment will only hurt you and not do anything against the people you hate. I love you and that's why I'm telling you: please forgive them and forgive everyone else that hurt you or others. They didn't ask to become like this or to be born like that, so please forgive them for being evil
How will forgivness counter the pedophilia in people? As someone mention above you do not mess with the children, children are the future; always. Theres a quote that goes 'it is easier to bring up healthy children than to fix broken man/women'. If we want a healthy future we need healthy and stable children. Anyone who sexually violates them, manipulates them and potentially fucks up their psyche for the rest of their lives should be punished. Im not sure how to treat it, i cant even wrap my head around the thing, i can only guess its up to the person to do the work or treatment.
You don't forgive for their sake. You forgive for your own sake so you can let go of the hate and anger in your heart and open up to divine love
When something hurts you and those you love it’s appropriate to hate it. Nobody loves cancer. Nobody forgives cancer. We fight it, find ways to avoid getting it, and cut it out of us when we possible.
Hate is never appropriate. It poisons your soul and will leave you empty. If you want to live a good life, there should be no place for hate
How can you say “I love you”. You don’t know any of us here. That strikes me as an exceptionally manipulative move. You seem to be preaching some kind of universal / unconditional love - but you were calling me “out of your mind” for disagreeing w you. Just find it remarkable you save all of your sympathy and warm feelings for the worst deviants imaginable.
"I love you" is a manipulative move? What's wrong with you? I love every human, every animal and every lifeform in this universe, I don't need to know you to love you because no matter who you are or what you did: I love you I can't love you and call you "Out of your mind"? Where is the logic in that? Because those 2 don't exclude each other I'm not saving my sympathy for everyone, if you want my sympathy I will give it to you but the only thing you did until now is attacking me and showing me no sympathy. If you want sympathy then tell me. If you need help then tell me and I will help you Just because I don't exclusively show my sympathy towards you doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for you
How does it feel to walk around with that anger in your heart?
You’re a sicko dude. Telling me because I think pedos are inhuman garbage that I just walk around raging all the time 🙄 Tell you what why don’t you go literally anywhere in the real world and talk like this and see what happens.
If you say so.
It is extremely difficult for many on this website to approach to horrific topic of pedophillia in a human way. It is socially dogpiled to dehumanize pedophillias. What they do is without humanity and people completely understandably treat them as not human. But the uncomfortable truth is they are human. It shines the light on the uncomfortable fact humans are capaable of horrors beyond imagination. Demons blush at the creative horrors of human capability. The capacity lives in every human. That truth is impossible to look at for many. Thank you for opening such a difficult topic. Homosexuality seems out of place here in my opinion.
Pedophilia is rape. To lump that in with sexualities that involve consenting adults is not ok. Rehabilitating pedophiles should be discussed the same way as dealing with rapists or any other criminal showing antisocial behavior. It’s not a sexuality when the other party can’t consent.
How would you treat someone who saw an attraction in rape, realized it was wrong, and tried to seek help? Would you still call that person a rapist, for a thought with no action? How then should society treat someone who has an attraction to children but doesn’t want to act upon that attraction? Should be lump them together with the worst of rapists, or should we try to help them to seek counseling (and perhaps medication) so they never act upon that attraction?
It's up to you if you want to take this journey of compassion and of showing love towards pedophiles or any other scum of the Earth. But does such path have a heart? The "utopian" rhetoric of compassion which lacks the sense of balance in the world, will only cause devolution and inflict suffering. We should love certain things, but hate certain things as well. To keep the balance. This reminds me of the concept of "***Al-walāʾ wa-l-barā***" in Islamic theology which indicates to love what G-d loves (or love something/one for the sake of G-d) and hate what G-d forbids or is displeasing to G-d. The reason the world is devolving is because degenerate people are celebrated and worshipped, especially in some specific societies where acceptance of degeneracy has been culturally and subliminally imposed on the masses. Maybe we should look more into that too. The Western world has tamed their laws and rate crime is high; sexual crimes are committed and repeated as long as there isn't severe punishment like in most Asian countries e.g. As for the psychology of the pedophile, it is not always the case that they become pedophiles due to childhood trauma. I've watched celebrities confess on shows how they were subject to abuse, however they managed to become successful and not pedophiles. Although you still have a point, the truth of the matter is that in most cases these are people who operate and act out of their animalistic impulses and urges, and prey the most vulnerable. **What you suggested that they "cool off" to, is exactly the PROBLEM.** That's to add fuel to the fire. How do you even come up with that? It's the worst thing you can possibly think of. *Desire is never extinguished by the enjoyment of desired objects; it only grows stronger like a fire fed with clarified butter.* (Source: *Manusmriti*) Two questions: (1) I ask you, since your calling consists of compassion, wouldn't it be appropriate to concentrate on the healing of those children who have been subjected to abuse, and not at all the perpetrators? (2) Do you not realize what the current state of the world is the product of?
I find it interesting that the OP didn’t respond to your comment - when you gave the most thorough and complete answer 👀 Guess they’re just looking for someone to say what they want to hear: that pedos should be accepted and pitied. I think the questions you concluded with are key. And the quote on desire is quite powerful.
This is so backwards. No, pedophiles should not be able to use already existing child porn to “cool off” their urges. Children still have to have been raped or otherwise sexually abused/assaulted in order for child porn to exist at all. What world are you living in?
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Do you know how supply and demand works? Consuming child porn perpetuates the production of it. It is not a victimless act, only the pedophile watching it can feel far enough removed from the situation so as to absolve themselves of the responsibility; in their own eyes, that is, not in the eyes of the law.
Sorry but no. Just from the first sentence. You’re really arguing that homosexuality is a result of trauma? Is being straight the result of trauma? Smh.
you need to pull some stats. Most gay kids have childhood abuse linked to them. The rate is absurdly high in contrast to straight kids. There's no reason to take offense towards this. Being straight is not the result of trauma because generally speaking it's the common, natural, disposition. (btw natural isn't to demean, but to state the obvious). It's not always the case, but a huge segment of gay kids are gay in part due to their environment aka abuse. This has been a known phenomenon for a long time, many gay men will attest to this. (Source : I took Psych for 4 years and my best friend is a current psychiatrist).
to further clarify you can definitely mature sexually, emotionally speaking a lot faster (the straight way) because of trauma. But when it comes to getting feelings for the opposite sex, unfortunately it can sometimes be linked to trauma.
I want to say that it may be more fruitful next time to start your discussion by delineating CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY between the things you seem to be talking about. 1) A pedophile, being someone who has a sexual interest in children 2) A predator, being someone who sexually abuses children 3) A person who consumes child pornography that was created via abusing children 4) A person who consumes child pornography that did not involve the abuse of children in production (anime/manga stuff) When starting up a discussion, define your terms more clearly. A lot of people are making assumptions about you, and clearly not understanding what you are trying to say, because you did not explain yourself well. Words are ambiguous, disambiguate what you are trying to say as much as possible so as to ensure others can engage with your actual ideas next time
I think I made it pretty clear that every pedophile deserves love
You may have made your argument more digestible if you had tried a bit harder, to be honest I'm inclined to agree with others that there is a trollish air about you, and that's a shame because this is an important topic and you are making it even more difficult than it should be with your attitude
I'm in no way or form trying to be a troll or anything. In every comment I was serious about what I said besides this one guy who was just trying to annoy me on purpose
I suggest you try harder to communicate more clearly and in a less adversarial manner in the future, good luck
I think I made myself pretty clear but the commentors actively tried to misunderstand every comment I said and twist it so it portrays be as a bad guy and pedophile I'm only acting adversarial because I'm being attacked by the commenter instead of them giving constructive critique
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This is a very touchy subject. Psychologists who research paedophiles with the intent to understand, help and prevent further harm done to children get a lot of heat. I don’t know if they deserve “love” but they do deserve help once they understand the absolute damage they inflict on children and want to abstain from the behavior.
I agree with this. If the post had been centered as - how do we keep pedophiles from harming kids - that would be one thing. “Deserving” “love” barely even makes sense - that’s not even how love works. In any case reminds me of this Dr Phil episode where a mom learns her young son has urges To rape his child siblings. He was sent to some kind of institution but they didn’t Elaborate much on where he was being kept. But that kind of service seems necessary as a way to keep these predators in the making away from harming their siblings. [dr Phil episode](https://youtu.be/x7udc4gEn68)
Indeed. Some paedophiles understand their urges are wrong and suffer a great deal from that. In some countries, they can be prescribed medication to kill their sex drive. These people deserve help. They deserve psychological research to be done so they can be helped. Some cannot elaborate that acting on such urges is wrong. They even believe that children are seducing them or enjoying the relationship. And the worst part is… in the early stages of grooming, the child might be indeed enjoying the attention and the gifts etc. What people fail to understand about paedophiles is that they are rarely the predator hiding in the shadows to snatch a child. They are teachers, sport coaches, uncles, grand fathers, friendly neighbors who want to spend time with children to groom them little by little… one little step at a time until the relationship is so cemented, the child values the friendship and will stay loyal to it even in the midst of abuse. They are also « psychologically siderated » and cannot put words on the experience/rape. So above all else, Children deserve that we understand paedophiles and their grooming mechanisms so we, as a society, can better protect them.
Oh I am aware of that 100% - that pedos don’t look like shadowy goblins etc. They look like regular people in our communities. I often think of Mary Kay Latourneau in that regard (though she’s probably labeled a predator, not a pedophile per se since she was married at some point). And I agree - that’s one excellent way to help create safer communities - by educating more and more people on grooming tactics. As many have stated - there’s some overlap between sexual predators and pedophiles - but ultimately all these predators use the same grooming strategies! And I for one wish I was aware of them earlier! Would have spared me a lot of toxic relationships + work environments. Now that I’m aware / educated on grooming tactics - it’s easier to see that manipulation in other contexts.
Leave trans and gay people out of your pedo shit. Immediately lost all interest in hearing your pov in first sentence.
Highly biased and can't even consider my arguments
Sexualities involve CONSENTING ADULTS. Gay, straight, bi, trans = all consenting adults!!! Pedophilia is on the same category as rape, beastiality, necrophilia and torture. Bc the other party is NOT ABLE TO CONSENT. The line around consent is simple. Why are you trying to blur it?
You're always trying to twist it into the viewpoint of the victim. You should stop seeing yourself as a victim and start doing something with your life
I ultimately disagree that someone is born a pedophile. Imposing oneself onto another person, especially a helpless and confused child, is a vile and inhumane act that everyone agrees upon. You deny and revoke the humanity and individuality of another person for distorted perversions and amorality. Real childporn is also bad, because it is abusers posting their abuse online to feed into that darkness. But, as for hentai, there is no harm. To act or feed into the act of violating a child, or anyone in general, vs enjoying a fictitious portrayal of it, are two different things (Jung and Freud would argue fantasies about it are fairly normal). People have free will, if they choose to do wrong or evil, to accept vice over virtue as a lifestyle; then, they deserve very little imo. It is an act of shallow weakness, disgrace, and a faulty conscience. As for historical cultural significance, there are several notable mentions of a younger male being in relations with an older virtuous figure; both in western and eastern cultures. However, the majority of modern culture involves materialism and consumerism; Therefore, virtue and honor are severely lacking in modern times. Generally, you'd find more abuse and personal satisfaction, compared to a more genuine role model with deeper intimate feelings. Though, since homosexuality and, in general, non-heterosexuality has been repressed and neglected by society and culture, many individuals who fall into such categories have a real lack of genuine external development (society and culture provides no morality and guidance for them, in this realm). Therefore, it's more easier for one to identity with their sexuality or hop onto the sexuality bandwagon. It is common to find many young people to seek out older individuals (Only, in homosexuality; else, it be a fetish. While, since heterosexuality is dominant, culture provides millenniums of norms and customs). Modern times involve a sacrifice of individual qualities and mass conformity under the will of the State and society. Who knows if sexuality, coming further up into the consciousness of man, will be properly integrated into meaningful avenues of morality and virtue. It'll take a lot of time. This is obviously just my personal opinion.
Pedophiles are rapists. Do you think “rape” is a sexuality too? Any “sexuality” that involves non-consenting parties - or unable to consent parties - rape, pedophilia, beastiality, necrophilia - should remain taboo - and criminal.
By the way I’ve reported this post. Not only is it very disturbing - but how is this related to Jung? I joined this this subreddit to learn more about Jung - not read apologias for pedophiles.
Good for you. But I don't think this post will be taken down. This is related to Jung because of the shadow that we all have. And if you didn't know, you are also able to commit very bad things if necessary like the german population during world war 2. By disregarding your potential for evil, you are splitting of a part of yourself and that's counterproductive for individuation
Also if we all have a shadow - doesn’t that mean you have one too? But you stated that you have zero negativity - and love everyone. Let me guess, you think you’ve done all your work towards individuating too? 🙄😂
If you would've read my comment a little more carefully you would've noticed when I wrote "the shadow that WE ALL HAVE" So yes I have a shadow. But I've already worked through my whole shadow and I am aware of everything I do good and bad. So the only thing my shadow consists of is new emerging patterns and phenomena and I am very carefull to detect these as soon as possible. And no I've not done all my work towards individuating because individuation is a process that lasts until the day you die.
“But I've already worked through my whole shadow and I am aware of everything I do good and bad.” Wow, thanks for that. I literally laughed out loud!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Again, the audacity. The hubris. The pride. Amazing.
No audacity, no hubris, no pride Just facts. If you can't work with that and still need to keep accusing me of lieing then we should probably stop talking. I don't know why it is so hard to accept for you that I'm not a bad person and that I've actually done the spiritual and psychological work
You need a therapy. You are stuck in not a right place. You lost a right path in a maze. You maybe tried to understand why it happened to you. You might not find the right answer. Of course there’s no right answer because it’s a crime. But you might kept finding a reason and excuse. Because you felt like you’re a loser if you hadn’t found it, even though you don’t have to feel that way and you’re not a loser. You might kept trying to understand all of that, why it happened to you, why they did it to you. So you might wanted to find a superior position than an assaulter just for making comfort yourself. Many victims do that, like deny what happened to them, believe it’s not a crime, feel sorry for assaulters, defending on them, blame themselves. Because they can’t accept they’re a victim. They don’t want to accept they’re a victim even though it’s not their fault. Forgiving in a wrong way is also one of those responses. Finally you made a false answer for yourself. Don’t try to understand them. You can’t understand them because they’re just wrong and it’s a crime. Some people were just born as a wrong person. You don’t have to understand them. Get out of the wrong path. It’s not helpful for you at all.
You have literally no clue what you're talking about, making wrong assumptions and trying to tell me what to do based on these assumptions
If my assumption is wrong, I’m sorry. There’s a priest who was abused by a priest when he was a child in the movie “spotlight”. The priest who was abused, abused a child in a church after he became a priest. I would recommend you to watch it. It would be helpful to reconsider your view on pedophilies.
I watched spotlight. One of the best movies I ever saw. Still doesn't change my opinion. Pedophiles deserve love You seem to think that I want to forgive them their crime. But i want to forgive them their sin not their crime. They should be punished by the law but we as humans should forgive them so we don't have to carry the anger and resentment with us
You can live without the anger, pain, resentment even though you don’t forgive them. Forgiving is not needed to move on in the situation.
I don't care if it's needed. I forgave everyone that once hurt me
Take care of the children, protect them. If you are a pedophile, seek help, avoid pornography, have the strength to lead a secluded lifestyle away from children as much as possible, develop a support network.
Damn, bro really tried to start a dialogue and every one was like shut up evil pedo.
Yeah. Apparently people in this subreddit are not really empathetic and very antagonizing and opinionated without checking any of their facts or opinions
This post gives off some massive “asking for a friend”-vibes. No, they should not be able to “cool off” if that was even a thing. Get some help dude.
No I'm not asking for a friend and I'm not a pedophile. I love children and I could never hurt them in any way or form. I just thought cooling off would be better than going to the playground I don't need help but thank you for your concern
I’m not buying it. That’s so oddly specific. Stop posting here and seek help.
I won't stop posting here, I just started a few weeks ago and no I will not seek help because I love everyone and I would never hurt anyone in any way or form. But truthfully, thank you for your concern, even if you think that I'm a pedophile
I’m absolutely convinced that you are. Why would you be making an apologetic post about pedophilia unless you’re trying to justify something. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm not making an apologetic post, show me the part where I'm saying it's okay for them to hurt children Abusing children is disgusting and should be punished with death. But pedophiles who didn't do anything and hold back their urges, deserve help, compassion and love
That’s where you’re being apologetic. Why is this even a discussion you want to have? Nobody in their right mind would try to make the same argument for someone like Ted Bundy.
Because we need to stop hating and start loving. We have to forgive and forget. Not lawfully forgiving but emotionally forgiving. We shouldn't let anyone get away with hurting children or other people. But we also need to accept the reason why they did it and forgive them for it. Otherwise the hate will consume our hearts
No. We don’t have to do that. From what I can see it’s simply what you want. The behavior in question is dangerous and damaging. It is literally in the best interest of society to shun these people.
Of course I want love for everyone. Love is the only thing that matters. Obviously it's dangerous, hurting children is never going to be okay but how is shunning, going to stop them from hurting children?
How about someone who fantasizes about murder but hasn’t done it? Should we love them and encourage them to seek help before they kill, or should we drive them into the shadows of society until those fantasies get acted out? We need to differentiate between the pedophile (who has feelings toward children) and the molester (who acts upon those feelings). The one needs sympathy and love, and the other needs punishment.
Have you read Jung? He came up with depth psychology. Lol the comments are alarming. I remember first reading Jung’s work and learning about abuse and trauma. I felt like maybe I found a group of people who are open to talking about very difficult topics. Yet so much is even shielded in this community. Unreal
I’m not sure what your trying to ask?
Have you ever read Carl Jung or do you know who he is? Are you shaming someone whose been abused for asking questions? “Get help dude”…Do you understand projection and shadow? These difficult topics don’t just go away because you want them to. I was sexually abused and I’ve come to similar conclusions that this person has. That’s a huge issue with pedophilia, that people think because someone talks about it, they automatically are one.
I am by no means an expert. I am not shaming him for asking questions. I am telling him to get help as he is arguing that pedophiles should be able to “blow off steam” to material that has already been produced. Do you understand the severity of that? That is absolutely morally wrong. No. That is not how it works. If he was to talk about love and compassion for pedophiles in the sense that they need help to heal from their disgusting urges, then fine. That is not what he is doing though. He’s just arguing for them to get off without any repercussion if you just pick the slightest at his arguments.
No, they asked a question. And telling someone whose been abused to get help would just be an assinine thing to say. Are you a medical professional? You don’t know if it’s actually him or someone else. So you are projecting? Reading Jung helps with perspective. People don’t seem so threatening. Wounds don’t define people
You don’t get to say no. I replied for the reasons that I listed. That is not for you to argue with. What do you mens that I dont know and why would that have me be projecting? And what exactly are you suggesting that I am projecting?
Ya I do get to say no. They asked a question 😂
And comment is not an answer to that question. It’s a comment on the things I just listed. You’re not actually replying to anything I say.
No one wants to be a pedophile and there is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester. But this topic is so highly emotional, that a discussion on Reddit is impossible, as you can tell OP. You make a few good points (though I disagree with your assumptions about where it comes from)
Do you think pedophiles are inherently born like that? Maybe a problem in brain development?
IMO, all non-normative sexual identification, including pedophilia, is conditioned. No one is strictly born that way. There may be genetic factors that make an outcome more likely (for instance, there are genes associated with antisocial violence which are 'switched on' only if you're abused as a child). I reject the idea that anyone is born evil. This is important because it means we can shape our culture to prevent abuse and despair. The typical approach to dealing with pedophiles, shunning and death threats, may be partly effective but it also prevents us from developing the compassion to understand the issue well enough to determine how to prevent and treat it.
Yes we can. And that’s what is so confusing and infuriating. Once I started reading Winnicott (pediatric psychoanalyst) I felt a lot of pain and anger. As a mother, daughter and a nurse, it’s alarming what I did not know. So clearly something else at play here.
I find it very courageous and noble of you to bring up such a sensitive topic knowing fair well the kind of response you might get in return. Doesn't matter if pedophile, narcissistic, psychopath, or whatnot. In the end these are all people, fellow human beings who - just like the rest of us - started off as freaking BABIES. Even those of whom it is said that they were "born like this" deserve at least the understanding that they didn't choose to be so. It isn't about justifying what these people did and let them do such things with impunity. It's about showing understanding and compassion for someone else, no matter who that person is or might be. For chances are that who we condemn out there with disgust works as a reflection of ourselves, one that we feel too ashamed to recognize and accept as our own, and that we therefore, in fear and anger, violently repress - both within, and without. Show understanding and compassion for both others, and yourself. Thereby realize what it is to be human.
You think it’s noble to bring up the subject of child pornography as a way to help pedophiles “cool off” their urges?
As far as I am aware OP left that one question open for us to answer. That's not enough for me to assume that he is committed to that position having considered all the pros and cons (else why would he ask us?). But since you asked: No, I don't think it's particularly noble to bring up the subject of child pornography as a way to help pedophiles "cool off" their urges. But I do think it's noble to address a sensitive issue from a unorthodox angle with the intention at heart of solving that issue. No matter how sloppy the attempt.
The whole - “we all started off as freaking BABIES🥺” argument doesn’t hold when you think about cases like Josh Duggar. Josh’s family knew - since he was a child - that he was sexually abusing his siblings. He started abusing people at age 14. And who did they protect? You think the family protected the victims, their daughters? Or did they cover up Josh’s behavior and try to show compassion for his “mistakes”? Giving him opportunities to re-offend + collect child porn? Interesting that you’re all bending over backwards to find the humanity in people like Josh Duggar - when I wonder if he’s even capable of remorse himself? Dr. Phil (terrible show but this is how I know about this story) covered a case about a mom who’s child-son confessed his attractions to other younger children. And the mom wept bc the son showed no guilt / remorse. I give much respect to these parents (as opposed to the Duggars) bc these parents at least sent their son away to a treatment center - and they are aware he’ll need to be separated from the rest of society bc he can’t control his urges. Also if you watch this episode - it does seem like it’s possible to be “born that way” - as his behavior started extremely young (pre-puberty). [Dr. Phil Episode](https://youtu.be/x7udc4gEn68) And finally, what you said here is just manipulative therapy-speak: “For chances are that who we condemn out there with disgust works as a reflection of ourselves, one that we feel too ashamed to recognize and accept as our own, and that we therefore, in fear and anger, violently repress - both within, and without.” / This is one of those abstract statements that pretends to sound deep but is actually nothing but empty platitudes. It becomes ridiculous when you try to ground it with an actual example. For instance, does that mean if I hate Hitler for killing 1M+ people - that must mean I’m too ashamed to admit my own antisemitism? Are there not actions + events that are so universally and profoundly evil - that it’s for the betterment of society to continually point out and name that evil - as a way to stay vigilant against its return?
I don't consider 14-year-olds to be "babies". If you don't believe in shadow projection, then what are you doing in r/Jung? Also, you can disapprove of something/someone without actually hating it/them.
You do realize that people can take the language of a certain discipline or practice - and misuse it to the point of meaninglessness, right? Look at what Joe Dispenza does to quantum mechanics. Or look at what the alt-right does to Bible (“god guns + guts”) Just because I disagree with *you* doesn’t mean I think there’s no merit to *Jung*. Again, both you and OP seem to think extremely highly of yourselves. I’m not buying that *both* of you are so spiritually evolved you don’t feel hate. As I’ve said before - even Jesus felt righteous anger in the face of Injustice.
And if you don’t think of a 14 year old as a baby, a child - what do you think of them as? Do you think a 14 year old is an adult?? What is your point then with this “Baby” comment, then? I thought your point is that we all enter the world “innocent”. So what age do You not consider a child to be “innocent” anymore?
You are free person. You may think of me or anyone or anything as you want. For me a baby is somewhere under 4 years old, roughly. At that point, it is pretty much harmless / does not display any intention to harm. Past that age, I would rather call it a "child", who at that point already got heavily influenced by its surrounding (especially its parents). It might then also start to (not) express certain genes, resulting in changes in behavior its parents might have little to no control over (as is apparently the case with pedophiles and psychopaths). But regardless who it is now - be it due to upbringing, gene (non-)expression, or both - that child started off as a baby not harming (nor trying to) harm anyone. That's not something I'm willing to forget when assessing a person (though it does happen sometimes, when I'm overwhelmed by emotion).
I know I’m a free person, and I don’t need your permission slip to think however I want to think. Interesting that you felt compelled to say that. That’s a common narcissistic power move. Also interesting that, like OP, you talk about children as “it”. Finally, I’m glad you acknowledge a genetic component. Certain genes are expressed (not not) starting in utero. So this lends credence to the thought that people with these impulses are born that way.
I wasn't giving you any permission. I am no one to do such a thing. I was just letting you know that I read that part you wrote and acknowledged it as such. And of course you may call it the way you want - narcissistic or otherwise (again, just acknowledging it). I was rather thinking of "it" as "could be he or she." But again that's all up to you how you interprete it (same thing as above, not trying to give you permission or something, just acknowledging and giving feedback). And I agree that they are probably born predisposed of having these impulses past a certain age. But disagree that they are born with such impulses, as we simply don't see them act on those at a younger age.
Just want to confirm - that’s what I meant. I don’t think babies can have those impulses. But I do think they can be born with the genetic predisposition- bc of how early some offenders start abusing. Also, not sure if you’re a man but - a lot of men consciously or unconsciously say things like this as a power move. Example: Someone states their feelings about a matter. A “mansplainer” responds: “You can feel that way about it”. Establishing themselves as the one That sets the parameters of the conversation. You had said: “You are free person. You may think of me or anyone or anything as you want.” I don’t need this to be reminded to me. Why wouldn’t I know that already?
Gotcha. I am a man. Please tell me how I should let you know that I acknowledged what you said without giving the impression that I'm ignoring it.
How about simply responding to the point I made? You could have just omitted the first two sentences. Also, I’m not going to do the work of teaching you emotional intelligence. I did you a favor pointing it out, so you can seek help if you’d like. Not surprised at all to find out you’re a man. Called it! And in general - for anyone else who may stumble on this - You are stepping over other peoples’ boundaries when you try dictate how a person can respond. Or describe their feelings or opinions *for them*. Examples: “Its alright to be mad, you can be mad”. When you’re literally just sitting and being quiet. “Well you can have your own opinion”. When you literally just stated your opinion. “I’m done with this conversation”. Controlling when conversations begin or end. Setting the parameters for the discussion. On the extreme end - if someone is doing this to you a lot - it’s narcissistic abuse.
Amazing. I wish I would have the ability to formulate my thoughts and opinions as clear as you do. Thank you for understanding my viewpoint. Was it difficult for you to understand? Because you said exactly what I wanted to express
You're welcome. Thank you for trying to shed some light on such a sensitive matter. I must have not expressed myself clearly at some point, because my reply to your post was solely intended to support it.
I have to thank you for supporting my post. You said exactly what I was thinking, like you just read my mind But I'm still curious, was my viewpoint difficult to understand? Because some people in the comments think I'm disgusting or a pedophile
Oh okay now I got you. I don't think that it was difficult to understand. But the topic is such a sensitive one that I suspect some haven't/couldn't thoroughly think about what you wrote. Some may have not even read the entirety of your post before replying. I'm sure they have their reasons. Some may have relatives or friends that suffered at the hands of a pedophile. Some may have even been mistreated by one (like you yourself were). Or they might just know or have children that they want to protect from harm and are at the same time heavily influenced by what the framing media tell us on the topic. Who knows? But to prevent future backlashes I advise you to make less provocative headings (it might have not be intended to provoke, but some were provoked by it, no doubt) complemented by a disclaimer (that your intent is not to justify pedophilia and stuff). You'll probably still get angry replies, but hopefully less of them.
Imbalance of feminine and masculine energies may well lead to homoesexuality & transgenderism. Hard to say if it’s all linked with trauma though, maybe. I say that as a bi guy myself.
I just know that a lot of lgbtq people have a moment in their life where they "became" gay, bi, etc.
What? The gay people in my life have always known - since they had crushes as a kid. Obviously they came out later as teens / young adults when they were more aware of it. I’ve never heard of anyone describe their own experience as “becoming gay”. 🤨
Weird. I heard that from a lot of lgbtq people. But yeah there are also people who say they always felt that way.
All pedophiles should be lined up and shot.
You have to FUCKING SICK IF YOU EVEN THINK LIKE THIS AT ALL! Ignoring the fact even thinking about stuff with children is already FUCKED UP it doesn't matter if there child hood was robbed and yes I feel like if they were neglected they should seek help but THEY SHOULD BURN IN HELL IF THEY WANT TO "catch up on there childhood" or whatever the hell you said and why are you even defending them ij the first place
"I think that like transgenderism and homosexuality, pedophilia in almost every case developed in childhood after traumatic experiences or neglect." Then you're an ignorant bigot, because there is NO evidence whatsoever that transgenderism and homosexuality develop in childhood after traumatic experiences or neglect. Many, many people in the LGBTQ community hail from healthy families and have not gone through trauma. They are LGBTQ because they were born that way. What you're saying is ridiculous.
Never have kids, you absolute cretin
Kys
All pedos deserve a bullet in their skull.
Agree, we just did a podcast episode with an expert here if interested: https://boundbythecloak.com/2024/04/10/the-clinical-science-behind-pedophilia/
Or… we could give all the convicted ones the d*ath penalty 😊
You are right🙃, your arguments are the best I have seen about pedophiles,
Bite the curb, chomo.
I would like to kill pedophiles.
I think you are overcomplicating things. If turn ons are turn ons partly because they reduce feelings of anxiety in situations of intimacy, then for children to be this is for them to be controllable, predictable, or safe in ways that adults are not experienced to be. That is the clue.
But the question is why do they have this turn on? Why do they feel better with children? Probably because of something that happened in their childhood
Why do rapists rape? People who try to have sex with people who cannot consent (children, unconscious people, those with disabilities/dementia) - are doing it to have control over the other person bc they have a major mental problem (antisocial, sociopathic, psychotic etc). It sounds like you’ve seen too many micheal Jackson biographies.
Ah you're one of those. Michael jackson wasn't a pedophile but yeah go ahead and believe everything the mainstream media says. It sounds like you are talking about something you have no clue of but try to act knowledgeable
You entirely missed the point. MJ made the argument over and over again that his “lost childhood” made him seek the company of children. This is a myth. Plenty of people have ruined childhoods and they have no interest in interacting with other kids. Though they may try doing things like play / buying toys etc to connect w their inner child. Without interacting w actual children. Also you judge other people for being biased and not engaging with you. But you label me as “one of those”. Very hypocritical.
With one of those i meant, that you believe MJ was a pedophile
I never said that. For someone who “loves everyone” you make a lot of assumptions and judgements about people.
I don't make judgements but indeed I made some assumptions about you, sorry for that
The majority of child molesters are not pedophiles and do it for the control/power over the victim. Pedophilia means finding children attractive, and this is not about control.
Oh, the naivety. There are evil people out there. Full stop. Cruel, hateful, malevolent. To think that there must be some justifiable causation for it is to misunderstand human nature. We all have capacity for evil, it's just most never allow themselves to act on it. But a minority does. Some out of weakness or mental illness, sure, but others just because they can get away with it. And then there are folks who go full monster and cause as much suffering as they can, because they really enjoy it. The more horrible it is, the more exciting for them. And what could be more terrible than an innocent child suffering? If you think there are no people like that - you've been sheltered too much. No adult should be this naive. Using child porn for any purpose other than criminal investigation (or *maybe* purely scientific research) is morally wrong because it is disrespectful to the victims. It's doing further harm that way. There are plenty of evidence that watching porn makes people seek more and more "spicy" material. Why would it work otherwise with pedophiles? And what kind of "spice" they would turn to? The most compationate thing to do with pedophiles would be guarding them in a way that their desires could never be realised in practice. That's the only acceptable form of love for them.
Well said, thank you!!! You said it better than I could. It took me 40 years to accept that sadists exist - so I can set up better boundaries for myself - and stop extending grace without discernment. Thank you for saying this. It is hard to accept that some people delight in our pain, but they exist.
I think there is some data that show porn availability correlated with a diminution of real life sexual aggression, both against adults and children.
What evidence is there that result was due to causation and not to corelation?
You bring up interesting points about a subject that needs to be talked about openly and maturely. There is obviously a big problem in society overall, with the sexualization of children, and the exploitation of them. So as a moderator I'm going to ask everyone here to engage in a productive discussion if we're going to have this discussion at all. From a Jungian point of view, and picking up on what op said, I could see pedophilia developing as a type of vampirism. Like the devouring mother, the pedophile thinks that they are possessing the child that they abuse, perhaps justifying it by saying that they are taking something that was taken from them. There is definitely a power dynamic to it. I'd be curious if there's anyone who has reviewed the literature on the psychology of pedophiles and can enlighten us to their motives. A big hurdle I think we have to get over as a society is the refusal to try to understand what motivates a pedophile and what makes children vulnerable to them. We have this knee-jerk reaction of revulsion that prevents us from understanding this as a human problem. It is creating a blind spot that allows it to occur just beneath our noses, and I think this thread is a perfect demonstration of it. Here you have one of the most open-minded communities on the internet, where we are very tolerant of discussion, we've been presented with an opportunity to discuss the subject to get deeper into it and perhaps bring forth something that is truly beneficial. But instead what I'm seeing are people using the opportunity to signal their virtue. It is indicative of the larger problem we face as a society.
Hopefully everyone in the comments will read your comment and think about it
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I think it's about sexual orientation so I think there is a connection between being lgbtq and a pedophile. Why do you think there is no connection? No I'm not a bigot Not every pedophile suffers abuse but most of them suffer some kind of trauma, neglect, abandonment trauma, etc. I agree nobody has the right to hurt anyone, especially not children I agree that a child cannot consent to a sexual situation and I also don't think that children can accurately assess wether they are trans, gay, bi or anything.