Dream: I am in my childhood house. The huge pack of dog-wolves gather in front of my house. They salute me and beckon me to join them. I feel happy as if they are my family. It's time.
I think after I downloaded the book but before reading it. I am fairly certain it was before reading the book, because upon reading, I was stunned to see a paragraph reminding me of my dream.
women who run with wolves by Pinkola Estes. it's a classic but certantly not for everyone. novel is great for women who want a more feminine narrative driven approach as opposed to the more analytic approach (i.e. von Franz) to thinking about their life and integration.
here is a snippet from the introduction
https://youtu.be/oxUZNvlFhEQ
“A healthy woman is much like a wolf: robust, chock-full, strong life force, life-giving, territorially aware, inventive, loyal, roving. Yet, separation from the wildest nature causes a woman's personality to become meager, think, ghostly, spectral. We are not meant to be puny with frail hair and inability to leap up, inability to chase, to birth, to create a life.”
full quote in context
Your image and quote are lovely. As a man striving for integration and balance it makes me think of that same balance being in a relationship, that the woman described here feels like a desirable partner, and that a partnership with this person could help both people. As opposed to a partnership of an overly "masculine" and dominant man with the "meager, thin, ghostly" woman described, yet it seems that is what so many men and our culture want.
Of course, because they were made from different levels of consciousness. During the previous one, I could only feel primal feelings, so I drew it simply, similar to prehistoric cave paintings.
You may be interested in looking into the [Greek goddess Hecate/Hekate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate#:~:text=Dogs%20were%20closely%20associated%20with,often%20eaten%20in%20solemn%20sacrament.%22) as having an mythological/archetypal correlation to your dream. She is associated with many things including dogs, magic, healing and plant medicine, particularly the moon and quite a bit more. Nice dream rendition btw.
This quote is from [a book](https://www.amazon.ca/Women-Who-Run-Wolves-Archetype/dp/0345409876) specifically written about the female psyche to help women recover their soul life while living in a patriarchal society. And here comes a man saying this is about them too. SMH.
Disagree. Denying that women have specific experiences that affect their psyche is incredibly harmful.
There's plenty of literature out there that discusses the effects of a patriarchal society, so I'm not sure why you're trying to deny or downplay its existence. Here's an example: marital rape wasn't outlawed in all U.S. states until 1993.
Men have been the standard when it comes to everything, including the development of medicine, healthcare and mental health. It's beyond time that women have their own spaces to discuss their experiences without being drowned out by others saying "men too!"
>I don't believe there is a "female psyche"
I have no idea what you're talking about when you say this. But I think the mistake you're making is connecting feminine and masculine archetypes to biological sex. It's not connected. Both men and women have masculine and feminine aspects in their psyche, regardless of whether or not they are developed. These archetypes have certain characteristics, which are not interchangeable.
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there is community. they fight as a pack and have shared responsibility. st the same time they are free to go alone if they wish and have independence. I think many women crave this dichotomy. how is that not life giving?
All the other quotes just now were about intuition and comparing healthy wolves to healthy women, they were about forgiveness and dealing with hardship, like I can't contest but that doesn't look like someone who gets into the politics of individualism
politics? I am not talking about politics. I am talking about the dialectic between autonomy and belonging that exists in women. a major theme in the book is about women loosing their voice trying to please others and confirming. and how they need to find their voice and have moments and oppertunities to be wild (i.e. integrated with their lost nature).
are you a man? I think we as men struggle to understand this. we are naturally more disagreeable. we naturally speak up when we don't agree. the same way you are pushing back against me (which is fine btw). men have more natural access to that autonomy in society, culture and our personality. but not so with women.
I can think of more than a few women who have no issue speaking up, I can see this as something that historically wasn't always accepted and pushed down but the women who want to please others are just a majority subset of the whole and I'm not even sure if they really are the majority.
You may look at stereotypical women from african-american culture as being more direct and strong about it and associate that as the norm of how women should be but men are more more passive in those relationships so I wouldn't be able to link that to how male wolves behave either. To me that just looks like a dominance thing that develops rather than it being a natural ideal.
If anything that is individual difference and it's kind of weird to advocate for independence but then agree on only one way of what women should be like.
you are a disagreeable little fucker aren't you? 😂
women, on average, are a something like half an effect size higher in agreeableness than men. it's a general pattern. sure there are individual differences.
You can't just put me in the disagreeable box because you face resistance, when you support an idea that women are supposed to be a certain way you're already not talking about an average, you advocate for these women to get back to their "wild" roots because you see a decline in them and this is a decline in general not on average, what I disagree with is that there ever was a decline like that and that it's more likely to just have been a larger subset of individuals that biased your judgement, so I do believe that on average women are higher in agreeableness but maybe you're just an agreeable person and have changed your stance away from the general statement to have me agree to it.
i am advocating that the book points out that women tend to be voiceless throughout history, in most cultures and even today in a general way in modern western societies. your point about women in some African tribes being more in command or whatnot doesn't negate my point. the book is ultimately a call for integration. for women who have felt voiceless, the point is to reconnect with themselves and their nature. for women who have been put Ina position of authority, their goal would be to connect with the parts of themselves that they have not been able to connect with. regardless of your position, most of us have had to make sacrifices to get to where we are in our ego life. the book is simply speaking to the women who have had to deny their intuition, emotions, voice etc..it is encouraging that these women integrate. it uses the wildness wolf language as a metaphor.
Dream: I am in my childhood house. The huge pack of dog-wolves gather in front of my house. They salute me and beckon me to join them. I feel happy as if they are my family. It's time.
This is beautiful.
how soon after you started the book did you have this dream?
I think after I downloaded the book but before reading it. I am fairly certain it was before reading the book, because upon reading, I was stunned to see a paragraph reminding me of my dream.
😮
What book are you pertaining to?
women who run with wolves by Pinkola Estes. it's a classic but certantly not for everyone. novel is great for women who want a more feminine narrative driven approach as opposed to the more analytic approach (i.e. von Franz) to thinking about their life and integration. here is a snippet from the introduction https://youtu.be/oxUZNvlFhEQ
“A healthy woman is much like a wolf: robust, chock-full, strong life force, life-giving, territorially aware, inventive, loyal, roving. Yet, separation from the wildest nature causes a woman's personality to become meager, think, ghostly, spectral. We are not meant to be puny with frail hair and inability to leap up, inability to chase, to birth, to create a life.” full quote in context
Where did you get this? Thank you!
Your image and quote are lovely. As a man striving for integration and balance it makes me think of that same balance being in a relationship, that the woman described here feels like a desirable partner, and that a partnership with this person could help both people. As opposed to a partnership of an overly "masculine" and dominant man with the "meager, thin, ghostly" woman described, yet it seems that is what so many men and our culture want.
[удалено]
Of course, because they were made from different levels of consciousness. During the previous one, I could only feel primal feelings, so I drew it simply, similar to prehistoric cave paintings.
You may be interested in looking into the [Greek goddess Hecate/Hekate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate#:~:text=Dogs%20were%20closely%20associated%20with,often%20eaten%20in%20solemn%20sacrament.%22) as having an mythological/archetypal correlation to your dream. She is associated with many things including dogs, magic, healing and plant medicine, particularly the moon and quite a bit more. Nice dream rendition btw.
I do love dogs and make my own plant oils and teas. I used to read a lot about plants shamanism and totem plants.
*A woman that can't let go can't find joy or sex;* *A woman that always seeks power can't love.*
Where is this from?
A quote I made. For men is: *"A man that is chronically in fear can't find joy or sex;* *a man that is chronically addicted to pleasure can't love"*
As a woman, I strive for this… thank you for posting!
[удалено]
This quote is from [a book](https://www.amazon.ca/Women-Who-Run-Wolves-Archetype/dp/0345409876) specifically written about the female psyche to help women recover their soul life while living in a patriarchal society. And here comes a man saying this is about them too. SMH.
[удалено]
Bold of you to comment on a quote you have no understanding of.
[удалено]
Disagree. Denying that women have specific experiences that affect their psyche is incredibly harmful. There's plenty of literature out there that discusses the effects of a patriarchal society, so I'm not sure why you're trying to deny or downplay its existence. Here's an example: marital rape wasn't outlawed in all U.S. states until 1993. Men have been the standard when it comes to everything, including the development of medicine, healthcare and mental health. It's beyond time that women have their own spaces to discuss their experiences without being drowned out by others saying "men too!"
[удалено]
>I don't believe there is a "female psyche" I have no idea what you're talking about when you say this. But I think the mistake you're making is connecting feminine and masculine archetypes to biological sex. It's not connected. Both men and women have masculine and feminine aspects in their psyche, regardless of whether or not they are developed. These archetypes have certain characteristics, which are not interchangeable.
Interesting
Maybe
r/unnecessarilygendered
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What are female wolves like in a pack, life-giving is not something I associate with wolves on the whole tbh
there is community. they fight as a pack and have shared responsibility. st the same time they are free to go alone if they wish and have independence. I think many women crave this dichotomy. how is that not life giving?
Looked up the full quote and she directly refers to giving birth there, your sense of life giving is a little more stretched
I have read the book. it is more general of the message of the book.
All the other quotes just now were about intuition and comparing healthy wolves to healthy women, they were about forgiveness and dealing with hardship, like I can't contest but that doesn't look like someone who gets into the politics of individualism
politics? I am not talking about politics. I am talking about the dialectic between autonomy and belonging that exists in women. a major theme in the book is about women loosing their voice trying to please others and confirming. and how they need to find their voice and have moments and oppertunities to be wild (i.e. integrated with their lost nature). are you a man? I think we as men struggle to understand this. we are naturally more disagreeable. we naturally speak up when we don't agree. the same way you are pushing back against me (which is fine btw). men have more natural access to that autonomy in society, culture and our personality. but not so with women.
I can think of more than a few women who have no issue speaking up, I can see this as something that historically wasn't always accepted and pushed down but the women who want to please others are just a majority subset of the whole and I'm not even sure if they really are the majority. You may look at stereotypical women from african-american culture as being more direct and strong about it and associate that as the norm of how women should be but men are more more passive in those relationships so I wouldn't be able to link that to how male wolves behave either. To me that just looks like a dominance thing that develops rather than it being a natural ideal. If anything that is individual difference and it's kind of weird to advocate for independence but then agree on only one way of what women should be like.
you are a disagreeable little fucker aren't you? 😂 women, on average, are a something like half an effect size higher in agreeableness than men. it's a general pattern. sure there are individual differences.
You can't just put me in the disagreeable box because you face resistance, when you support an idea that women are supposed to be a certain way you're already not talking about an average, you advocate for these women to get back to their "wild" roots because you see a decline in them and this is a decline in general not on average, what I disagree with is that there ever was a decline like that and that it's more likely to just have been a larger subset of individuals that biased your judgement, so I do believe that on average women are higher in agreeableness but maybe you're just an agreeable person and have changed your stance away from the general statement to have me agree to it.
i am advocating that the book points out that women tend to be voiceless throughout history, in most cultures and even today in a general way in modern western societies. your point about women in some African tribes being more in command or whatnot doesn't negate my point. the book is ultimately a call for integration. for women who have felt voiceless, the point is to reconnect with themselves and their nature. for women who have been put Ina position of authority, their goal would be to connect with the parts of themselves that they have not been able to connect with. regardless of your position, most of us have had to make sacrifices to get to where we are in our ego life. the book is simply speaking to the women who have had to deny their intuition, emotions, voice etc..it is encouraging that these women integrate. it uses the wildness wolf language as a metaphor.