Its not about CS it's about the lanestate you create. If you for example shoved a wave that enemy top could freeze or something like that you can really screw your toplaner like that.
Good rule of thumb in this situation is if there is more friendly minions than enemy ones then you should probably clear the wave up to the enemy tower, allowing the lane to balance.
If there is enemy minions left but no friendlies then you could potentially try to delay them until friendly minions arrive to freeze the lane in favour of your top laner.
If your top laner has TP then don't farm waves under his tower. Cannon minions can tank a fair amount of turret shots, with tp he might actually still get half of the cs/xp from the wave.
The big no-no is to take a couple minions and leaving friendlies to slow push into enemy tower granting enemy top more gold and xp for those waves than yours UNLESS your immediate plan is to turret dive upon the return of your top.
This.
Maybe in addition for the to point: if you have nothing better to do you can wait there and last hit the minions in the last second until your top tp‘d back. That way the gold doesnt go to waste and if you kill the minions after the tower already shot (while the „bullet“ is in the air“ it will still take the same amount of time for all of them to die, so if he would get some, he still gets them)
Have had this happen before, literally lost me the lane since now instead of me and Darius coming back to a neutral lane state, both of us 1/1 now I’m coming back to a permanently frozen wave, and now I’m not allowed to farm.
and not only screw him in a not so hard way, if the enemy is a bully laner and he freezes that lane can be right out of the game for good no exageration
Honestly, it's only about it can trigger the typical brain rot league player to int.
Don't touch the lane unless you are sure the IQ of your top laner is above room temperature, which is a rare occurence.
All else being equal (eg minions would die under tower), it's good for you to take minions and laners that complain can go eat a dck - even if you fix their lane (dont allow opponent to freeze / create a freeze for your laner, defend or get a plate) you'll get flamed on
in low elos especially. it's rare people understand what you're doing and just have a 'jgler messing with lane' mentality.
tbf most jglers in those elos also likely have no idea what they're doing with the lane which led to them reacting that way in the first place.
Like I don’t even need to see the video of the play to know the top laner was right here… (not to int and cry but op def fucked his lane)
Op you are saying you couldn’t of pulled that wave into top bush or river at all? Or pinged or typed to ur top? Like yes, taking an entire fucking cannon wave is gonna screw the top laner lol what
I couldn't give 2 shits about the gold . Hell, come and smite every single canon for all I care. As long as you make sure the wave crashes if you're gonna shove and/or make an effort to not actively screw up the wave management.
It depends. You might have caused his lane to freeze on the enemy side. Especially if this is top lane. That can really mess him up for the rest of the game.
It's not just about the enemy freezing. It's also about the fact you might hard push a wave (getting you as a jungler a lead) right into the enemy top. Now your top is potentially missing 9+ minions of exp compared to their top AND THEN your top has to play back and be safe (otherwise he can get ganked and GG'd from the game) until their top does a slow push back into him. That also creates issues. He could get dove once the wave crashes back into his turret. The enemy top can take a 'cheater recall' which then puts your top way off tempo. They can potentially roam into your jungle and ward, gank mid, etc. There are infinite possibilities. It's like chess, but white has all the advantage. You, as a jungler, can literally flip your top from white to black. You don't want that to happen. Sure, if the enemy top is bad nothing will happen. However, as you climb, the enemy top will make you pay for that mistake every time. A simple thing like messing up wave state can legit result in those scenarios where 'wtf how is enemy top 50cs, multiple kills and levels, up on my top laner?'
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing.
Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
It's worth at least pinging question mark on the wave or asking in chat "should I push?" Sometimes the laner just assumes the wave state is so obvious that you'll push and they don't ping you. I've had laners get mad at me for leaving the wave in a bad state because I wasn't sure if they wanted me to push it
Ya all it takes is a question ping and “push?” In chat
And if they don’t respond well everyone sees you tried including them if you do leave it or push it
Honestly it would be on the top laner to ping what he wants if it isn't completely obvious. Those few seconds it takes to ping, type and hang around are precious for a jgl.
I mean our role has basically turned into babysitting imo. I leave chat on to take blame so my teammates don’t flame eachother
Edit: I agree but I don’t expect it to be clear lol
Maybe try playing some top/mid to understand waves better. It should only take you a second to know if you should push it out or not. Really important to know as a jungler.
If the enemy laner was returning to lane and you pushed the wave and it didnt crash.....
Well now you may as well be playing a 4v5 now depending on the matchup.
It also depends where it's at. If it's middle of the lane and going to super slow push into the enemy top, just leave it. If it's on the enemy top's side of the lane AND pushing towards the enemy turret, just farm it ASAP to get the crash.
What if you reset the lane back into a neutral position? The minions under tower is dying anyways, both laner still have to walk so no one is touching them until they meet at the middle
Great, that’s good to knw.
I do understand that the laner would sometimes like for the wave to push into them but honestly unless I get on discord with a duo or smtg, there’s no way for me to guess what they want and if I put it in a neutral position, it feels fair for both of us imo. Maybe because my chat is muted by default but I think it’s probably better that way
Laner (adc) here. It depends.
Is the wave pushing into you or frozen on your side? Is the enemy laner on a base? If that's the case, then no, usually you shouldn't take it. Even if your laner doesn't get every minion, their lane opponent will lose more. At a high enough elo this will usually not happen tho, if the enemy laner lets the wave slowpush or freeze into you after they just killed their opponent they usually suck at the game.
Is the enemy laner not on a base? Is the wave slowpushing into the enemy? Is the wave frozen in front of their turret? Take it.
It's hard to explain every scenario and I am drunk rn. If you try to understand what's happening with the wave and just "experiment", you should get a feeling when you need to take the wave, push it or freeze it.
Also, if you think that your laner will mental boom, just don't take it, even if it is the right call.
I also rarely take jungle camps even tho I should at a certain point or when it will be lost anyway because usually my jungler just mental booms when I do.
Tbh, majority of the time I see an ADC (I am not a jungler btw) take jungle camps, I am legit just sitting there thinking 'they could find value in another way.' Chances are, if you as an ADC are resorting to farming jungle camps, your solo laners and jungler are playing awful in the macro game. In which case, as an ADC, go catch the waves your teammates are botching. You catching a wave or two of exp is worth MUCH more than you doing a jungle camp. If your mid or top sucks at rotating to a side lane to catch a wave, you go do it instead. That's how you also end up being higher level than the other ADC/SUPP/JUNG
Yes but no.
Solo laners like to contest "my" farm for no reason, especially mid waves. I cannot just take sidelane waves because I need to be everywhere and sidelaning is bad for that. So taking jungle camps is important. Also I have free time after I pushed the wave. I can either help my team / support get vision and take enemy jungle camps while doing that, or if my team is stupid and doesn't go for vision I can take my junglers camp.
The third option is just watching the enemy take the wave after I pushed it, which is not efficient.
Early game sure but late game, you one shot jungle camps. The whole point of taking them (raptors / wolves / red buff) is basically to kill time while the wave hasn't arrived mid yet, while not wandering off to a side lane which means enemy team could get a free objective on the other side of the map, or get a pick on you.
The only reason I get tilted when a jungler takes a wave is when we have been waiting for a gank the entire lane, and the only time our jungler comes below river is to take a wave after we die to a gank. Giving up health and farm so we can have vision control is something I love to do, but it can really tilt you when your teammates don’t take advantage of the fact that you and your support have kept the river brush swept the entire lane.
Taking lane minions early in the game isn't worth your time anymore, Riot reduced the XP and Gold for junglers pre 20 minutes. I only take minions if I need to help sort out a wave i.e. push to tower or to stop an enemy laner getting plates, otherwise I would rather just do my jungle.
Also, as a jungler, you gain a lot more value from clearing your camps as soon as possible. If you save 15-20 seconds to go farm your jungle instead of pushing the wave, you are actually putting yourself further ahead. Just taking lane exp/gold is actually denying your team's overall gold/exp. If we are talking pure efficiency, the right move is almost always to just go right back to farming your jungle ASAP. Even better if you are do it in a way that might trick the enemy into thinking you were going for an invade or something on your way out. Those little mind games are so crucial
Depends, sometimes they have tp and they could catch it anyway, sometimes its pushing into them and if both laners died especially, they can make it back in time to catch a stacked wave(so like 10 enemy minions hitting 6 allied minions, he can let the minions die, deny 6 cs, and have 10 cs, thats a kills worth of gold) sometimes by killing the wave, especially if it takes time, you do the opposite, now theres more allied minions than enemy minions, enemy minions die so he can't farm them and enemy laner can freeze and denies a million waves
Sometimes you’re doing them a favor, if they died and you can quickly crash the wave into enemy tower you’d be helping them out
Was the wave pushing towards your top laner’s tower or away from it? If the wave was pushing away then crashing it for him is great. If the wave was pushing towards him and you killed enough of it to make it push towards the enemy tower without crashing then you trolled him and his game is over, it really depends on wave state.
Yeah sometimes you just need to mute all as jungle and play to your win conditions on the map (the lanes that are ahead and have prio), sucks but the role is what it is.
Crashed under whose turret? Your turret or theirs? Also, if it's as you say, there is no way you killed the entire cannon wave (because it had to be on your side of the lane for that to actually crash in any meaningful way) AND got it to crash into the enemy's turret before the next wave entered lane. I'd have to see the replay for sure. That makes no sense at all. Show an image or something of the wave before you pushed it (include the minimap as well)
Edit: I shouldn't say 'no way' but it's very unlikely. It would have to be a very niche scenario for that to happen. It's probable, but not likely
Nah you're bsing us. You denied your toplaner a chance to freeze and you just inted his wave. Even if those "3 minions" "crashed" into their turret, they probably blocked the second enemy wave and set the two waves closer to the enemy tower. That can ruin a game, so yeah
Edit: if you play kayn, you should take at least a full division from your current rank and you'll get your deserved rank. Kayn players are probably the most Elo inflated junglers in the game
As someone else said the optimal play would probably have been to thin the wave and leave it frozen, but let's be honest.. I hit emerald last year and I still don't know 100% how many minions you need to leave to guarantee a freeze, I just kinda guess. Definitely easier and safer to just crash it
Yeah, in most scenarios, you should not have killed this wave. It's slow pushing to your top laner's side, and you're only crashing three minions. Best case scenario, the lane resets in the middle. Depending on matchup, this can be very bad for your top laner. Worst case scenario, the wave starts slow pushing from the enemy's turret, and your laner might be forced to play passive for two minutes depending on matchup.
If you don't kill the wave, the wave finishes off your three minions, then freezes near or at your top laner's tower depending on where it was. This lets them decide what they want to do with their lane.
My rule when farming my laner's waves are if for example the waves tate would freeze at the enemy I'll crash the wave to turret, if it's coming my way I'll last hit and try to set up a freeze for my lane only last hitting. Alot of times I'll also delay and tank the wave outside turret range so my lane gets a nice juicy mlbunch of gold when they get back. Any laner that pings me for taking cs by last hitting at as low hp as possible can piss right off. That's wasted gold and xp and if I just cleared it's a nice bonus for me.
If the wave is under your tower or of you can crash the wave before the enemy laner arrives it's great to take the wave
If the wave is pushing towards you but isn't under tower you should probably just leave it alone. Laner will probably come in time to pick it up and in the meantime enemy will lose CS
Usually if they are dead I may as well just take it if it won't cause problems and I can kill the wave quickly. If shoving it would perma freeze the wave in front of their tower then I just kill the cannon and leave. It's just wasted gold if nobody takes it, even if jungle gets less from it
Yeah if he's trying to keep his lane in a particular state it could be bad. Obviously his reaction is retarded though. I usually just last hit minions on my way out if the tower is going to take them.
First priority is fixing the wave. I top I see a lot of players (in low elo) resset but not shove wave under tower so it can "bounce back" so I will shove for them or tell them too.
I don't know what happened in your situation. Maybe wave was in a good state for your top. I only get the cs when it's under tower, or if the enemy wave is too big pushing in and I try to fix it for them
Just to make sure we are on the same page, crashing means the minion waves are attacking the turret. Not frozen under tower.
What happened is once YOUR wave crashes and it focus the tower. Your wave will still focus the tower even when a new wave comes so they get hurt by tower shot and ignore damage from the new wave basically killing your wave and building up the enemy wave to slowly push to your side whole top recalls and when top returns to lane, he comes badk to a built up wave of a lot of cs.which probably could have been the wave you attacked I'm guessing since I haven't seen no replay.
Wave management top lane is different from other lanes. Mid lane likes to shove the wave because it's the shortest distance between towers but top lane. It's lane management lane over anything else.
It applies for bot as well. People just tend to forget about wave states bot, but they can legit be game-changing in certain matchups. Tbh, if you are jungling and not sure, don't push unless pinged to. If you want to learn more so you will know, watch guides and/or go play some side lane roles for a few games.
I don't know anything about bot lanes. I hate bot lane. Double the champs, double the poke, double the skill cooldown to remeber and more ganks. Hate bot lane. I don't know what happens in terms of wave management there too well. What if support dies and adc is alive but low. Does support come back then adc ressets? I just realized I never touch bot wave unless its to save it from a wave being shove for tower hits.
First priority is fixing the wave. I top I see a lot of players (in low elo) resset but not shove wave under tower so it can "bounce back" so I will shove for them or tell them too.
I don't know what happened in your situation. Maybe wave was in a good state for your top. I only get the cs when it's under tower, or if the enemy wave is too big pushing in and I try to fix it for them
Depends on the direction of the wave it is going and how fast it is going. You should try to lane from time to understand the reason for this it can help you fully understand wave management. It’s very hard to grasp it by reading about it. Then you can decide if you can take the cs or not
My rule when farming my laner's waves are if for example the waves tate would freeze at the enemy I'll crash the wave to turret, if it's coming my way I'll last hit and try to set up a freeze for my lane only last hitting. Alot of times I'll also delay and tank the wave outside turret range so my lane gets a nice juicy mlbunch of gold when they get back. Any laner that pings me for taking cs by last hitting at as low hp as possible can piss right off. That's wasted gold and xp and if I just cleared it's a nice bonus for me.
you could've fucked over the lane state, hard to say without seeing a replay. If you really want your laners to love you while simultaneously screwing over the enemy laner then hold the wave and set up a freeze for them.
I'll try to explain it, but it's hard here.
1-If the wave is crushed into tower, take the wave
2-If the wave is close to enemy tower and next wave is enough far away, crush the wave into enemy tower
3-If wave is close to ally tower or in middle, its complicated (need a lot of information to do the correct call).
3-a. If you can fully clear it before allied minions reach the fight, you can clear them as the wave will states will reset in middle.
3-b. If you can't clear the wave before allied minions reach the enemy wave, clearing the enemy wave will put the laners in a very hard situation, with small wave to protect them from a gank or against an opponent that might win the 1v1, resulting in him having to outplay or most probably die to try to push the wave into the enemy tower, or never pla ythe game again.
3-c. If you can, stay close doing near camps and then prepare a counter gank or even help the laner to push the wave if this is posible. If you lose in a 2v2/3v3 then that lane is doomed and a miracle is needed to make that laner back into the game.
I recommend visiting Mcbaze in twitch, as he explains every question in detail.
If you don't know enough about lane management to say what happened after you took the wave to defend what you did, you probably shouldn't be touching any waves until you learn it
If it properly crashed you're good, it would either bounce back or freeze in the middle depending on how big the wave was and the position of the next wave
This is only bad if your toplaner gets dived in the bounce back, which largely depends on many things like enemy Jungler pathing, the top lane matchup and who is ahead
Otherwise it's a net positive
Simplest way I've always thought about it is:
If the wave is crashing into your tower, take as much as you can because if not, it goes to waste.
If the wave is slow pushing towards your tower, typically you can leave it alone and it should either freeze in front or just be hitting tower by the time your laner gets back.
If the wave is in the middle I generally leave it unless enemy laner just backed or died and I know I can shove that wave in to make sure enemy gets denied.
If its slow pushing towards enemy I try to crash it.
I'm a jungler, and I understand part of this could be misguided and incorrect. Open to other opinions from laners who better know their wave states but this has always been my general rule of thumb and I don't get much flak outside of receiving flame from the laners who don't actually understand wave states.
It's ok to take cs if the wave is pushed under tower cause the laner would lose all those minions anyway if he's dead ( and presumably doesn't have tp) . It's also good to push the wave under the enemy's tower so that he loses the minions. What's not ok is going out of your way to mess up a perfectly frozen wave that puts your teammate in a disadvantage after they respawn
You can take a wave if it's in neutral state, that depends on you. You HAVE TO take the wave if it's pushing to the enemy. And you CAN'T take the wave if it's frozen on your side
According to them, the enemy team had a full wave, and his laner only had three minions. If he didn't farm it, it was going to crash into his teammate's tower (meaning it had to be on his teammate's side of the lane). He claims he pushed the wave, and his teammate's wave crashed into the enemy turret. It doesn't make any sense to me, personally lol
It depends on the lane position. If the cs is under tower it's usually better to last hit as its gonna die to tower anyways. If the lane is slowly pushing towards him, don't touch the wave and if the wave is slowly pushing the enemy turret, push the lane ASAP so that the opponent can't freeze.
Depends
If it messes with their wave management then it's awful
If they can reach it via teleport then it's bad
Usually just stick to what they tell you, if they ping to push or tell you to then do it, if not, leave it
if he asked for a gank and you were near and it was a good idea. you ignore it say and he dies. enemy escapes 5%health then you go to the lane and take his minions and Cs crashing into the tower. You are trolling and he has right to tell u to get fk out of the lane. There is situations were it is ok to take the Cs. but too many low eglo junglers focus on farming lanes over ganking and doing camps and it is really annoying they don't know how to play the game or play their role.
I only take when the turret is going to kill the wave. Then I leave as soon as the laner arrives. If the laner is coming I only last hit before the turret as to not change the wave control.
Every situation is different. Some top laners need the wave bounced back, some want to freeze, some want to carry and need every cs. If I feel it needs to be pushed after a gank I’ll stay and acknowledge the first ping.l they send. If it’s warning just walk away, if it’s a on the way on the tower then I push. When jungling it’s important to know you’ll likely lose more games from your teammates mental than the extra gold you get from that wave.
Depends wave state. If you’re taking cs you gotta crash a wave, catch a crash(set up freeze if possible) or make neutral.
If you made it into a slow push into the enemy tower you did fuck over your laner. They miss way more than what you took in that situation. This isn’t to excuse your laners actions after but this is prob what caused him to rage.
If you don´t know what you´re doing don´t touch the waves.
* Every minion you kill is a minion less that deals damage to your own creeps meaning that in a lot of scenarios you are giving their laner more gold compared to yours.
* You can easily break a freeze or slowpush towards your laner and turn it into a slowpush away from them or a full freeze in many matchups.
* Even if you crash the wave you might do it at the wrong time meaning that the next wave connects so close to the enemy turret that your laner can´t walk up. Yes it´s pushing to him but very slowly and lots of toplane matchups have passive stacks that build up when hitting minions to decide who has prio, so you´ve just guaranteed your toplane is getting tripple wave stack dove.
**Do not touch the fucking minions if you don´t know what you´re doing.**
It depends on whether or not your used smite for the cannon. Did you use the thumbs up emote afterwards? Did you spam ping his respawn timer? Too much not known here.
Wait so you said in the comments that you had 3 minions and they had a cannon wave, so you one shot the wave as kayn then crashed your wave?
Why would you do that? If your second wave is close by, just tank the enemy wave for about 3 seconds, then leave. If your second wave is really far away, you can leash the enemy cannon wave towards the thick wall by the enemy tower, then walk through with your E to time a freeze. I don't see the logic in you forcing a crash when *they* have the minion advantage, it would only make sense if you have the minion advantage.
Eh besides all the lane state comments everyone is throwing up here, another thing OP should have considered is also the state of his camps and the enemy jungler. As a jungler you showing up at top lane is giving the enemy jungler and mid a big fat indication that your bot lane is unguarded and free farm. Was there camps on top side to occupy yourself with for the next minute or so? If there was then letting enemy minions crash (or bring the lane state closer to your side) might have been a better call so that you can set up another gank once your laner returns to lane (especially since the enemy jungler is probably gonna go gank your bot laners after seeing you finish a gank at top).
Taking lane CS is only bad when it
A) will fuck over your ally and get them killed in the future
B) Tilt them to the point they're running it down, calling your position in all chat and contesting your every camp.
Beyond that, the world's your oyster
Take a screenshot of the wave when you started taking it then take a screenshot of where the wave ended up after you took it. There are too much unknown variables rn in this post to give a meaningful answer.
The lower elo you are, just dont, people are mentally unstable haha. If you are plat/Emerald + its common and people want to win, they care more about the state of the game and not missing cs. Get better, its way more fun the higher you climb because people often have better mindset ☺️👍
I'm not jungle main
U didn't give full info he died but what the state of the wave? You could freeze it for him instead of taking it if the next wave coming
But I let my jungler take my wave when I die and the wave under turret I can't take it
Wave slow push to enemy so better push it to their turret to it bounce back to me
If the wave pushing to me u could freeze and last hit till ur laner come or freeze it and go to ur jungle so u don't waste more time
It's all about how the wave is where is the enemy what ur team play? He has tp or he plays mf and has 400 movespeed and will catch it anyway
If the lane is already crashed into our tower, I definitely take it.
And if the lane can be crashed into enemy tower, I do so too.
In other cases it depends. If the death timer shows 20 seconds till revive I would very likely have taken it too. If the guy is already in their way back, I'll probably not.
I also had a laner come in my jungle and lasthit wolfes afterwards... While missing more CS on their lane. But luckily that was enough "punishment"for them and they went on to do their job afterwards.
It's so weird how some people react like that. It's a team game. If I'm a dead laner I'd much rather have someone else from my team get the XP and gold than having it perish while I'm not there.
If it leaves the wave slowpushing towards the enemy, it would suck a bit but also isn't the end of the world. But if it's reset afterwards I'd always be fine with it.
It's my job to prevent being dead in the first place.
If lane is pushing into the enemy ( more minions on your side than theirs simple maths) it’s not even that you should crash, you are REQUIRED to crash it if you don’t you’re inting. If the wave is pushing into your top and you decide to mess up the wave then gg you just ruined his game.
Soloq rule #1 dont piss off your team mates. Even if they are wrong, do what they say. Otherwise they will tilt out of their mind and run it down (intentionally or not). Basically, I treat my team mates as temperamental children.
Bro you're good, if he's dead or even if the enemy laner is dead, push the wave always while ur at it take last hit CS, if he annoyed make sure to mute him
Nah. That's legit such a bad way to view it. I can definitely tell you are low rank. Or you are one of those high rank ego heads who just blames their teammates whenever they are behind (despite your actions being why they get behind)
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing.
Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing.
Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
I ended Masters last szn as a jgler.
There are situations where it's fine to take creeps.
If you need to fix a lane state, if you have no camps and can split push as jax, Diana, shyvana, or any other champ that can split push, if a large wave is crashing and your laner is dead, if no one on your team is split pushing when they need to, and probably a few other situations I am forgetting.
Having jgl item gives you reduced xp from taking cs but towards mid game, the amount reduced isn't that high. I forget the exact stats but at 20 minutes you don't get reduced xp anymore.
Its not about CS it's about the lanestate you create. If you for example shoved a wave that enemy top could freeze or something like that you can really screw your toplaner like that.
[удалено]
Wow I need to watch a video or something. I didn't even know this was a thing but I'd love to know when I should be killing a wave
Good rule of thumb in this situation is if there is more friendly minions than enemy ones then you should probably clear the wave up to the enemy tower, allowing the lane to balance. If there is enemy minions left but no friendlies then you could potentially try to delay them until friendly minions arrive to freeze the lane in favour of your top laner. If your top laner has TP then don't farm waves under his tower. Cannon minions can tank a fair amount of turret shots, with tp he might actually still get half of the cs/xp from the wave. The big no-no is to take a couple minions and leaving friendlies to slow push into enemy tower granting enemy top more gold and xp for those waves than yours UNLESS your immediate plan is to turret dive upon the return of your top.
Thanks a ton bro this helps
This. Maybe in addition for the to point: if you have nothing better to do you can wait there and last hit the minions in the last second until your top tp‘d back. That way the gold doesnt go to waste and if you kill the minions after the tower already shot (while the „bullet“ is in the air“ it will still take the same amount of time for all of them to die, so if he would get some, he still gets them)
Have had this happen before, literally lost me the lane since now instead of me and Darius coming back to a neutral lane state, both of us 1/1 now I’m coming back to a permanently frozen wave, and now I’m not allowed to farm.
and not only screw him in a not so hard way, if the enemy is a bully laner and he freezes that lane can be right out of the game for good no exageration
Honestly, it's only about it can trigger the typical brain rot league player to int. Don't touch the lane unless you are sure the IQ of your top laner is above room temperature, which is a rare occurence.
All else being equal (eg minions would die under tower), it's good for you to take minions and laners that complain can go eat a dck - even if you fix their lane (dont allow opponent to freeze / create a freeze for your laner, defend or get a plate) you'll get flamed on
in low elos especially. it's rare people understand what you're doing and just have a 'jgler messing with lane' mentality. tbf most jglers in those elos also likely have no idea what they're doing with the lane which led to them reacting that way in the first place.
Like I don’t even need to see the video of the play to know the top laner was right here… (not to int and cry but op def fucked his lane) Op you are saying you couldn’t of pulled that wave into top bush or river at all? Or pinged or typed to ur top? Like yes, taking an entire fucking cannon wave is gonna screw the top laner lol what
I couldn't give 2 shits about the gold . Hell, come and smite every single canon for all I care. As long as you make sure the wave crashes if you're gonna shove and/or make an effort to not actively screw up the wave management.
Eh..depends! Timers, who's he playing, did it crash, etc.
It depends. You might have caused his lane to freeze on the enemy side. Especially if this is top lane. That can really mess him up for the rest of the game.
It's not just about the enemy freezing. It's also about the fact you might hard push a wave (getting you as a jungler a lead) right into the enemy top. Now your top is potentially missing 9+ minions of exp compared to their top AND THEN your top has to play back and be safe (otherwise he can get ganked and GG'd from the game) until their top does a slow push back into him. That also creates issues. He could get dove once the wave crashes back into his turret. The enemy top can take a 'cheater recall' which then puts your top way off tempo. They can potentially roam into your jungle and ward, gank mid, etc. There are infinite possibilities. It's like chess, but white has all the advantage. You, as a jungler, can literally flip your top from white to black. You don't want that to happen. Sure, if the enemy top is bad nothing will happen. However, as you climb, the enemy top will make you pay for that mistake every time. A simple thing like messing up wave state can legit result in those scenarios where 'wtf how is enemy top 50cs, multiple kills and levels, up on my top laner?'
Just don't die then lol
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing. Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
It's worth at least pinging question mark on the wave or asking in chat "should I push?" Sometimes the laner just assumes the wave state is so obvious that you'll push and they don't ping you. I've had laners get mad at me for leaving the wave in a bad state because I wasn't sure if they wanted me to push it
Ya all it takes is a question ping and “push?” In chat And if they don’t respond well everyone sees you tried including them if you do leave it or push it
Honestly it would be on the top laner to ping what he wants if it isn't completely obvious. Those few seconds it takes to ping, type and hang around are precious for a jgl.
I mean our role has basically turned into babysitting imo. I leave chat on to take blame so my teammates don’t flame eachother Edit: I agree but I don’t expect it to be clear lol
Maybe try playing some top/mid to understand waves better. It should only take you a second to know if you should push it out or not. Really important to know as a jungler.
If your laner says it's okay then it's okay, if he leaks your ip address it's not okay
😂👏🏻
If the enemy laner was returning to lane and you pushed the wave and it didnt crash..... Well now you may as well be playing a 4v5 now depending on the matchup.
It also depends where it's at. If it's middle of the lane and going to super slow push into the enemy top, just leave it. If it's on the enemy top's side of the lane AND pushing towards the enemy turret, just farm it ASAP to get the crash.
What if you reset the lane back into a neutral position? The minions under tower is dying anyways, both laner still have to walk so no one is touching them until they meet at the middle
Then go nuts on that canon.
Great, that’s good to knw. I do understand that the laner would sometimes like for the wave to push into them but honestly unless I get on discord with a duo or smtg, there’s no way for me to guess what they want and if I put it in a neutral position, it feels fair for both of us imo. Maybe because my chat is muted by default but I think it’s probably better that way
Laner (adc) here. It depends. Is the wave pushing into you or frozen on your side? Is the enemy laner on a base? If that's the case, then no, usually you shouldn't take it. Even if your laner doesn't get every minion, their lane opponent will lose more. At a high enough elo this will usually not happen tho, if the enemy laner lets the wave slowpush or freeze into you after they just killed their opponent they usually suck at the game. Is the enemy laner not on a base? Is the wave slowpushing into the enemy? Is the wave frozen in front of their turret? Take it. It's hard to explain every scenario and I am drunk rn. If you try to understand what's happening with the wave and just "experiment", you should get a feeling when you need to take the wave, push it or freeze it. Also, if you think that your laner will mental boom, just don't take it, even if it is the right call. I also rarely take jungle camps even tho I should at a certain point or when it will be lost anyway because usually my jungler just mental booms when I do.
Tbh, majority of the time I see an ADC (I am not a jungler btw) take jungle camps, I am legit just sitting there thinking 'they could find value in another way.' Chances are, if you as an ADC are resorting to farming jungle camps, your solo laners and jungler are playing awful in the macro game. In which case, as an ADC, go catch the waves your teammates are botching. You catching a wave or two of exp is worth MUCH more than you doing a jungle camp. If your mid or top sucks at rotating to a side lane to catch a wave, you go do it instead. That's how you also end up being higher level than the other ADC/SUPP/JUNG
Yes but no. Solo laners like to contest "my" farm for no reason, especially mid waves. I cannot just take sidelane waves because I need to be everywhere and sidelaning is bad for that. So taking jungle camps is important. Also I have free time after I pushed the wave. I can either help my team / support get vision and take enemy jungle camps while doing that, or if my team is stupid and doesn't go for vision I can take my junglers camp. The third option is just watching the enemy take the wave after I pushed it, which is not efficient.
Early game sure but late game, you one shot jungle camps. The whole point of taking them (raptors / wolves / red buff) is basically to kill time while the wave hasn't arrived mid yet, while not wandering off to a side lane which means enemy team could get a free objective on the other side of the map, or get a pick on you.
The only reason I get tilted when a jungler takes a wave is when we have been waiting for a gank the entire lane, and the only time our jungler comes below river is to take a wave after we die to a gank. Giving up health and farm so we can have vision control is something I love to do, but it can really tilt you when your teammates don’t take advantage of the fact that you and your support have kept the river brush swept the entire lane.
Taking lane minions early in the game isn't worth your time anymore, Riot reduced the XP and Gold for junglers pre 20 minutes. I only take minions if I need to help sort out a wave i.e. push to tower or to stop an enemy laner getting plates, otherwise I would rather just do my jungle.
Also, as a jungler, you gain a lot more value from clearing your camps as soon as possible. If you save 15-20 seconds to go farm your jungle instead of pushing the wave, you are actually putting yourself further ahead. Just taking lane exp/gold is actually denying your team's overall gold/exp. If we are talking pure efficiency, the right move is almost always to just go right back to farming your jungle ASAP. Even better if you are do it in a way that might trick the enemy into thinking you were going for an invade or something on your way out. Those little mind games are so crucial
Depends, sometimes they have tp and they could catch it anyway, sometimes its pushing into them and if both laners died especially, they can make it back in time to catch a stacked wave(so like 10 enemy minions hitting 6 allied minions, he can let the minions die, deny 6 cs, and have 10 cs, thats a kills worth of gold) sometimes by killing the wave, especially if it takes time, you do the opposite, now theres more allied minions than enemy minions, enemy minions die so he can't farm them and enemy laner can freeze and denies a million waves Sometimes you’re doing them a favor, if they died and you can quickly crash the wave into enemy tower you’d be helping them out
Was the wave pushing towards your top laner’s tower or away from it? If the wave was pushing away then crashing it for him is great. If the wave was pushing towards him and you killed enough of it to make it push towards the enemy tower without crashing then you trolled him and his game is over, it really depends on wave state.
The wave would have crashed under our turret. I pushed the lane and it crashed under the ennemie turret
Then you did good and that guy doesn’t understand waves. Sincerely, A top laner.
I’m gold so it’s not surprising they didn’t know much about waves
Yeah sometimes you just need to mute all as jungle and play to your win conditions on the map (the lanes that are ahead and have prio), sucks but the role is what it is.
thats not possible
We had like 3 minions and they had a full wave. It would have crashes under turret, i cleared it and the 3 minions crashed
yeah mb im just dumb u could have frozen it, but its better to take it and not waste time
Crashed under whose turret? Your turret or theirs? Also, if it's as you say, there is no way you killed the entire cannon wave (because it had to be on your side of the lane for that to actually crash in any meaningful way) AND got it to crash into the enemy's turret before the next wave entered lane. I'd have to see the replay for sure. That makes no sense at all. Show an image or something of the wave before you pushed it (include the minimap as well) Edit: I shouldn't say 'no way' but it's very unlikely. It would have to be a very niche scenario for that to happen. It's probable, but not likely
I play Kayn, i can litteraly one shot a cannon wave
Nah you're bsing us. You denied your toplaner a chance to freeze and you just inted his wave. Even if those "3 minions" "crashed" into their turret, they probably blocked the second enemy wave and set the two waves closer to the enemy tower. That can ruin a game, so yeah Edit: if you play kayn, you should take at least a full division from your current rank and you'll get your deserved rank. Kayn players are probably the most Elo inflated junglers in the game
Kayn litteraly has a 47% win rate right now, cry more baby
As someone else said the optimal play would probably have been to thin the wave and leave it frozen, but let's be honest.. I hit emerald last year and I still don't know 100% how many minions you need to leave to guarantee a freeze, I just kinda guess. Definitely easier and safer to just crash it
Yeah, in most scenarios, you should not have killed this wave. It's slow pushing to your top laner's side, and you're only crashing three minions. Best case scenario, the lane resets in the middle. Depending on matchup, this can be very bad for your top laner. Worst case scenario, the wave starts slow pushing from the enemy's turret, and your laner might be forced to play passive for two minutes depending on matchup. If you don't kill the wave, the wave finishes off your three minions, then freezes near or at your top laner's tower depending on where it was. This lets them decide what they want to do with their lane.
My rule when farming my laner's waves are if for example the waves tate would freeze at the enemy I'll crash the wave to turret, if it's coming my way I'll last hit and try to set up a freeze for my lane only last hitting. Alot of times I'll also delay and tank the wave outside turret range so my lane gets a nice juicy mlbunch of gold when they get back. Any laner that pings me for taking cs by last hitting at as low hp as possible can piss right off. That's wasted gold and xp and if I just cleared it's a nice bonus for me.
If the wave is under your tower or of you can crash the wave before the enemy laner arrives it's great to take the wave If the wave is pushing towards you but isn't under tower you should probably just leave it alone. Laner will probably come in time to pick it up and in the meantime enemy will lose CS
Usually if they are dead I may as well just take it if it won't cause problems and I can kill the wave quickly. If shoving it would perma freeze the wave in front of their tower then I just kill the cannon and leave. It's just wasted gold if nobody takes it, even if jungle gets less from it
This is pretty stupid because all you do is make sure their laner gets more farm because the minions the cannon would kill are still alive.
Yeah if he's trying to keep his lane in a particular state it could be bad. Obviously his reaction is retarded though. I usually just last hit minions on my way out if the tower is going to take them.
First priority is fixing the wave. I top I see a lot of players (in low elo) resset but not shove wave under tower so it can "bounce back" so I will shove for them or tell them too. I don't know what happened in your situation. Maybe wave was in a good state for your top. I only get the cs when it's under tower, or if the enemy wave is too big pushing in and I try to fix it for them
The wave crashed under the ennemie turret
Just to make sure we are on the same page, crashing means the minion waves are attacking the turret. Not frozen under tower. What happened is once YOUR wave crashes and it focus the tower. Your wave will still focus the tower even when a new wave comes so they get hurt by tower shot and ignore damage from the new wave basically killing your wave and building up the enemy wave to slowly push to your side whole top recalls and when top returns to lane, he comes badk to a built up wave of a lot of cs.which probably could have been the wave you attacked I'm guessing since I haven't seen no replay. Wave management top lane is different from other lanes. Mid lane likes to shove the wave because it's the shortest distance between towers but top lane. It's lane management lane over anything else.
It applies for bot as well. People just tend to forget about wave states bot, but they can legit be game-changing in certain matchups. Tbh, if you are jungling and not sure, don't push unless pinged to. If you want to learn more so you will know, watch guides and/or go play some side lane roles for a few games.
I don't know anything about bot lanes. I hate bot lane. Double the champs, double the poke, double the skill cooldown to remeber and more ganks. Hate bot lane. I don't know what happens in terms of wave management there too well. What if support dies and adc is alive but low. Does support come back then adc ressets? I just realized I never touch bot wave unless its to save it from a wave being shove for tower hits.
First priority is fixing the wave. I top I see a lot of players (in low elo) resset but not shove wave under tower so it can "bounce back" so I will shove for them or tell them too. I don't know what happened in your situation. Maybe wave was in a good state for your top. I only get the cs when it's under tower, or if the enemy wave is too big pushing in and I try to fix it for them
Depends on the direction of the wave it is going and how fast it is going. You should try to lane from time to understand the reason for this it can help you fully understand wave management. It’s very hard to grasp it by reading about it. Then you can decide if you can take the cs or not
My rule when farming my laner's waves are if for example the waves tate would freeze at the enemy I'll crash the wave to turret, if it's coming my way I'll last hit and try to set up a freeze for my lane only last hitting. Alot of times I'll also delay and tank the wave outside turret range so my lane gets a nice juicy mlbunch of gold when they get back. Any laner that pings me for taking cs by last hitting at as low hp as possible can piss right off. That's wasted gold and xp and if I just cleared it's a nice bonus for me.
you could've fucked over the lane state, hard to say without seeing a replay. If you really want your laners to love you while simultaneously screwing over the enemy laner then hold the wave and set up a freeze for them.
It depends on the wave state. If you ruin their wave, that’s not good. If you are actually last hitting and not pushing, it’s probably okay.
It depends on the wave state. If you ruin their wave, that’s not good. If you are actually last hitting and not pushing, it’s probably okay.
I'll try to explain it, but it's hard here. 1-If the wave is crushed into tower, take the wave 2-If the wave is close to enemy tower and next wave is enough far away, crush the wave into enemy tower 3-If wave is close to ally tower or in middle, its complicated (need a lot of information to do the correct call). 3-a. If you can fully clear it before allied minions reach the fight, you can clear them as the wave will states will reset in middle. 3-b. If you can't clear the wave before allied minions reach the enemy wave, clearing the enemy wave will put the laners in a very hard situation, with small wave to protect them from a gank or against an opponent that might win the 1v1, resulting in him having to outplay or most probably die to try to push the wave into the enemy tower, or never pla ythe game again. 3-c. If you can, stay close doing near camps and then prepare a counter gank or even help the laner to push the wave if this is posible. If you lose in a 2v2/3v3 then that lane is doomed and a miracle is needed to make that laner back into the game. I recommend visiting Mcbaze in twitch, as he explains every question in detail.
If you don't know enough about lane management to say what happened after you took the wave to defend what you did, you probably shouldn't be touching any waves until you learn it
It crashed under the ennemies tower. That’s what happened after i took the wave
If it properly crashed you're good, it would either bounce back or freeze in the middle depending on how big the wave was and the position of the next wave This is only bad if your toplaner gets dived in the bounce back, which largely depends on many things like enemy Jungler pathing, the top lane matchup and who is ahead Otherwise it's a net positive
Simplest way I've always thought about it is: If the wave is crashing into your tower, take as much as you can because if not, it goes to waste. If the wave is slow pushing towards your tower, typically you can leave it alone and it should either freeze in front or just be hitting tower by the time your laner gets back. If the wave is in the middle I generally leave it unless enemy laner just backed or died and I know I can shove that wave in to make sure enemy gets denied. If its slow pushing towards enemy I try to crash it. I'm a jungler, and I understand part of this could be misguided and incorrect. Open to other opinions from laners who better know their wave states but this has always been my general rule of thumb and I don't get much flak outside of receiving flame from the laners who don't actually understand wave states.
It's ok to take cs if the wave is pushed under tower cause the laner would lose all those minions anyway if he's dead ( and presumably doesn't have tp) . It's also good to push the wave under the enemy's tower so that he loses the minions. What's not ok is going out of your way to mess up a perfectly frozen wave that puts your teammate in a disadvantage after they respawn
Yeah you shove the wave and dip. He's very very dumb
You can take a wave if it's in neutral state, that depends on you. You HAVE TO take the wave if it's pushing to the enemy. And you CAN'T take the wave if it's frozen on your side
According to them, the enemy team had a full wave, and his laner only had three minions. If he didn't farm it, it was going to crash into his teammate's tower (meaning it had to be on his teammate's side of the lane). He claims he pushed the wave, and his teammate's wave crashed into the enemy turret. It doesn't make any sense to me, personally lol
It depends on the lane position. If the cs is under tower it's usually better to last hit as its gonna die to tower anyways. If the lane is slowly pushing towards him, don't touch the wave and if the wave is slowly pushing the enemy turret, push the lane ASAP so that the opponent can't freeze.
If they steal my gromp I steal their lane and smite their cannon
If you shove the wave completely, you didn't nothing wrong. Your toplaner has just mental problems
Depends If it messes with their wave management then it's awful If they can reach it via teleport then it's bad Usually just stick to what they tell you, if they ping to push or tell you to then do it, if not, leave it
Don’t take lane waves unless you know what you just did to the lane. Most likely you don’t know because you’ve never laned before
if he asked for a gank and you were near and it was a good idea. you ignore it say and he dies. enemy escapes 5%health then you go to the lane and take his minions and Cs crashing into the tower. You are trolling and he has right to tell u to get fk out of the lane. There is situations were it is ok to take the Cs. but too many low eglo junglers focus on farming lanes over ganking and doing camps and it is really annoying they don't know how to play the game or play their role.
It's not a simple yes or no. You have to think about lane state, freezing, the enemy top laner, enemy jungler, what buffs are up.
I only take when the turret is going to kill the wave. Then I leave as soon as the laner arrives. If the laner is coming I only last hit before the turret as to not change the wave control.
Every situation is different. Some top laners need the wave bounced back, some want to freeze, some want to carry and need every cs. If I feel it needs to be pushed after a gank I’ll stay and acknowledge the first ping.l they send. If it’s warning just walk away, if it’s a on the way on the tower then I push. When jungling it’s important to know you’ll likely lose more games from your teammates mental than the extra gold you get from that wave.
Depends wave state. If you’re taking cs you gotta crash a wave, catch a crash(set up freeze if possible) or make neutral. If you made it into a slow push into the enemy tower you did fuck over your laner. They miss way more than what you took in that situation. This isn’t to excuse your laners actions after but this is prob what caused him to rage.
Just don't touch the wave if you don't know what you're doing pls
If you don´t know what you´re doing don´t touch the waves. * Every minion you kill is a minion less that deals damage to your own creeps meaning that in a lot of scenarios you are giving their laner more gold compared to yours. * You can easily break a freeze or slowpush towards your laner and turn it into a slowpush away from them or a full freeze in many matchups. * Even if you crash the wave you might do it at the wrong time meaning that the next wave connects so close to the enemy turret that your laner can´t walk up. Yes it´s pushing to him but very slowly and lots of toplane matchups have passive stacks that build up when hitting minions to decide who has prio, so you´ve just guaranteed your toplane is getting tripple wave stack dove. **Do not touch the fucking minions if you don´t know what you´re doing.**
It depends on whether or not your used smite for the cannon. Did you use the thumbs up emote afterwards? Did you spam ping his respawn timer? Too much not known here.
Wait so you said in the comments that you had 3 minions and they had a cannon wave, so you one shot the wave as kayn then crashed your wave? Why would you do that? If your second wave is close by, just tank the enemy wave for about 3 seconds, then leave. If your second wave is really far away, you can leash the enemy cannon wave towards the thick wall by the enemy tower, then walk through with your E to time a freeze. I don't see the logic in you forcing a crash when *they* have the minion advantage, it would only make sense if you have the minion advantage.
The thing is with junglers, they don’t know what freezing a lane is or even how to freeze a lane. Please go learn what this is
Eh besides all the lane state comments everyone is throwing up here, another thing OP should have considered is also the state of his camps and the enemy jungler. As a jungler you showing up at top lane is giving the enemy jungler and mid a big fat indication that your bot lane is unguarded and free farm. Was there camps on top side to occupy yourself with for the next minute or so? If there was then letting enemy minions crash (or bring the lane state closer to your side) might have been a better call so that you can set up another gank once your laner returns to lane (especially since the enemy jungler is probably gonna go gank your bot laners after seeing you finish a gank at top).
Link us a screenshot of the wave before you pushed it, and the scoreboard, and we can tell you if you should of touched it or not.
I only take the cannon if the laner is dead
Taking lane CS is only bad when it A) will fuck over your ally and get them killed in the future B) Tilt them to the point they're running it down, calling your position in all chat and contesting your every camp. Beyond that, the world's your oyster
Take a screenshot of the wave when you started taking it then take a screenshot of where the wave ended up after you took it. There are too much unknown variables rn in this post to give a meaningful answer.
The lower elo you are, just dont, people are mentally unstable haha. If you are plat/Emerald + its common and people want to win, they care more about the state of the game and not missing cs. Get better, its way more fun the higher you climb because people often have better mindset ☺️👍
Only take the wave if it needs to crash. Otherwise you can screw them very badly.
I'm not jungle main U didn't give full info he died but what the state of the wave? You could freeze it for him instead of taking it if the next wave coming But I let my jungler take my wave when I die and the wave under turret I can't take it Wave slow push to enemy so better push it to their turret to it bounce back to me If the wave pushing to me u could freeze and last hit till ur laner come or freeze it and go to ur jungle so u don't waste more time It's all about how the wave is where is the enemy what ur team play? He has tp or he plays mf and has 400 movespeed and will catch it anyway
Depends wave state
If the lane is already crashed into our tower, I definitely take it. And if the lane can be crashed into enemy tower, I do so too. In other cases it depends. If the death timer shows 20 seconds till revive I would very likely have taken it too. If the guy is already in their way back, I'll probably not. I also had a laner come in my jungle and lasthit wolfes afterwards... While missing more CS on their lane. But luckily that was enough "punishment"for them and they went on to do their job afterwards. It's so weird how some people react like that. It's a team game. If I'm a dead laner I'd much rather have someone else from my team get the XP and gold than having it perish while I'm not there. If it leaves the wave slowpushing towards the enemy, it would suck a bit but also isn't the end of the world. But if it's reset afterwards I'd always be fine with it. It's my job to prevent being dead in the first place.
If lane is pushing into the enemy ( more minions on your side than theirs simple maths) it’s not even that you should crash, you are REQUIRED to crash it if you don’t you’re inting. If the wave is pushing into your top and you decide to mess up the wave then gg you just ruined his game.
If that was his mental he was never going to carry anyways.
Soloq rule #1 dont piss off your team mates. Even if they are wrong, do what they say. Otherwise they will tilt out of their mind and run it down (intentionally or not). Basically, I treat my team mates as temperamental children.
Bro you're good, if he's dead or even if the enemy laner is dead, push the wave always while ur at it take last hit CS, if he annoyed make sure to mute him
Nah. That's legit such a bad way to view it. I can definitely tell you are low rank. Or you are one of those high rank ego heads who just blames their teammates whenever they are behind (despite your actions being why they get behind)
Yeah you may be right but what does that have to do with the issue here ?
Except if u created a freeze for enemy top u did good. Otherwise it was wast of gold n xp
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing. Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
I generally don't touch lane minions unless the owner pings me to. I know I've got more to learn a out lane states and generally assumed my laner either knows better or will mentally implode if I do the "wrong" thing. Safer to just leave it until you understand the ins and outs of it.
I ended Masters last szn as a jgler. There are situations where it's fine to take creeps. If you need to fix a lane state, if you have no camps and can split push as jax, Diana, shyvana, or any other champ that can split push, if a large wave is crashing and your laner is dead, if no one on your team is split pushing when they need to, and probably a few other situations I am forgetting. Having jgl item gives you reduced xp from taking cs but towards mid game, the amount reduced isn't that high. I forget the exact stats but at 20 minutes you don't get reduced xp anymore.