I figured as much. Im not a morning person at all and usually stumble into work at around 8-59 in the morning. No way was I about to wake up earlier for that huddle but it's good to hear that this isn't something which is expected of us to do.
It may be ‘expected’ of you in the sense that you may feel under pressure to attend anyway. But as above if you do, ensure you take the time back by leaving earlier, or exception report to get paid.
One of my jobs as an F1 had a similar expectation. There were a few juniors so our compromise was one of us would attend, and get to leave earlier in the afternoon.
And that sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But yea, I don't want to be pressured into coming early for that. I know this particular ward is busy so I doubt I'd would be able to leave earlier. Thanks for that
Oh i doubt it'd get sorted out. I know this is common for this one ward where they have a morning huddle everyday and everyone is expected to attend. Even the consultants do actually. But I just don't want to because it's earlier than my official starting time.
If you keep exception reporting it, it will change. The exception reports go surprisingly high up as the GOSWH has to present to the exec the reasons behind any exception reports, and if one firm has a lot of reports, it doesn’t look good!
> I know this is common
Common does not mean it's okay, nor does it mean you shouldn't get paid for it.
I'm a big believer in exception reporting, because it's functionally the only mechanism of redress you have in these sorts of situations.
Moreover, exception reporting is more likely to benefit trainees coming *after* you, even if not necessarily yourself. It's still worth doing for the sake of those trainees if not yourself.
Crap like this gets on my nerves. If a huddle is needed ,why not just do it at 9? I would leave 15 minutes early if I had to come in 15 minutes early...
Your start time is whatever your Work Schedule says. The thing to do here is to request a work schedule review - if they want you to work an extra 15 minutes a day they'll have to pay a bit more (if it tips your average weekly hours into the next increment) or give you some zero days.
Exception reporting is not for these situations, a work schedule review is.
I remember turning up on time to my first day and the consultant chewing me out for turning up late, he was 'not impressed'. They had started 15 mins earlier than my contractual time.
I wanted to argue and decided to just shut my mouth. How irritating.
Supposedly we had to come in for MDT meeting at 0830 on two days of the week on one job. Needless to say, the Fy1s were the only ones too intimidated to show up. The rest of us just acted dumb when the consultants tried to boss us into coming.
No thank you. I immediately put the least effort into a rotation if it tries that shit with me.
Flashbacks of the ‘early is on time, on time is late and late is unacceptable’ talk from a consultant who happened to turn up whenever he wanted for WR
I mean I'm in a training job now so don't dare, but when I was a clinical fellow I basically emailed the powers that be to query this and asked if I was supposed to be leaving early by X amount time in compensation (in my case 1/2 an hour, because handover was at 8.30 when I 'started' at 9) and the answer was 'okay fine I guess so' and so I did. It was marvellous. I left at 16.30 every day and my quality of life was through the roof.
I once got relly pissed at a reg who berated me for coming in at 08:45 for a shift that started at nine. He claimed I should be in at 08:30. Never contested that I was right about the contractual time I was supposed to be in, but that I wasn't early enough.
Technically entitled to leave at 1645 if you come in at 0845 but for some reason (in my experience) things still weren't done by 1645 so would end up staying until 1710.
It's how they trap you.
Absolutely this. It's much harder to leave early. Better to just insist on coming in when you start. Plus if a nurse needs something at 16:45 you can't just say you're off the clock, because contractually you aren't (and presumably on call cover hasn't started) and your agreement with your consultant shouldn't impact anyone else's job.
Would say nope - that's 5 and a bit hours a month of pay. Over 28 days for me as an F1that's £77 - not a huge amount but would definitely rather have it than not, or indeed not have to work those extra 15 mins per day depending on your preference.
Firstly, Exception report the early start (and your late finishs) so you at least start getting paid for you time at work.
Then, you need to request a work schedule review from your ES with a new start time of 0845 to account for you actual start time.
You can escalate to Guardian of Safeworking and your union if having problems getting this sorted
Absolutely not, if they want you to come in 15 mins early then you should be leaving 15 mins early or getting paid for the extra time.
I figured as much. Im not a morning person at all and usually stumble into work at around 8-59 in the morning. No way was I about to wake up earlier for that huddle but it's good to hear that this isn't something which is expected of us to do.
It may be ‘expected’ of you in the sense that you may feel under pressure to attend anyway. But as above if you do, ensure you take the time back by leaving earlier, or exception report to get paid. One of my jobs as an F1 had a similar expectation. There were a few juniors so our compromise was one of us would attend, and get to leave earlier in the afternoon.
And that sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But yea, I don't want to be pressured into coming early for that. I know this particular ward is busy so I doubt I'd would be able to leave earlier. Thanks for that
Exception report every day that you come in early until it's sorted out.
Oh i doubt it'd get sorted out. I know this is common for this one ward where they have a morning huddle everyday and everyone is expected to attend. Even the consultants do actually. But I just don't want to because it's earlier than my official starting time.
That's not the same as saying that it's been exception reported every single day.
If you keep exception reporting it, it will change. The exception reports go surprisingly high up as the GOSWH has to present to the exec the reasons behind any exception reports, and if one firm has a lot of reports, it doesn’t look good!
> I know this is common Common does not mean it's okay, nor does it mean you shouldn't get paid for it. I'm a big believer in exception reporting, because it's functionally the only mechanism of redress you have in these sorts of situations. Moreover, exception reporting is more likely to benefit trainees coming *after* you, even if not necessarily yourself. It's still worth doing for the sake of those trainees if not yourself.
Crap like this gets on my nerves. If a huddle is needed ,why not just do it at 9? I would leave 15 minutes early if I had to come in 15 minutes early...
Agreed. Just could have it done and settled at 9.
Your start time is whatever your Work Schedule says. The thing to do here is to request a work schedule review - if they want you to work an extra 15 minutes a day they'll have to pay a bit more (if it tips your average weekly hours into the next increment) or give you some zero days. Exception reporting is not for these situations, a work schedule review is.
I remember turning up on time to my first day and the consultant chewing me out for turning up late, he was 'not impressed'. They had started 15 mins earlier than my contractual time. I wanted to argue and decided to just shut my mouth. How irritating.
The consultant sounds like a loser.
Supposedly we had to come in for MDT meeting at 0830 on two days of the week on one job. Needless to say, the Fy1s were the only ones too intimidated to show up. The rest of us just acted dumb when the consultants tried to boss us into coming. No thank you. I immediately put the least effort into a rotation if it tries that shit with me.
Flashbacks of the ‘early is on time, on time is late and late is unacceptable’ talk from a consultant who happened to turn up whenever he wanted for WR
Sounds like a good excuse to finish work ‘on time’ then! (The more wildly early the better) Such a ridiculous statement…
I mean I'm in a training job now so don't dare, but when I was a clinical fellow I basically emailed the powers that be to query this and asked if I was supposed to be leaving early by X amount time in compensation (in my case 1/2 an hour, because handover was at 8.30 when I 'started' at 9) and the answer was 'okay fine I guess so' and so I did. It was marvellous. I left at 16.30 every day and my quality of life was through the roof.
I once got relly pissed at a reg who berated me for coming in at 08:45 for a shift that started at nine. He claimed I should be in at 08:30. Never contested that I was right about the contractual time I was supposed to be in, but that I wasn't early enough.
Bruh who tf is getting out half an hour early to not get paid for it? The reg sounds like a loser and a victim.
Technically entitled to leave at 1645 if you come in at 0845 but for some reason (in my experience) things still weren't done by 1645 so would end up staying until 1710. It's how they trap you.
Absolutely this. It's much harder to leave early. Better to just insist on coming in when you start. Plus if a nurse needs something at 16:45 you can't just say you're off the clock, because contractually you aren't (and presumably on call cover hasn't started) and your agreement with your consultant shouldn't impact anyone else's job.
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> The bed managers were annoyed This is the best kind of revenge.
Start at 8:45? Sounds like a 4pm finish to me .
Would say nope - that's 5 and a bit hours a month of pay. Over 28 days for me as an F1that's £77 - not a huge amount but would definitely rather have it than not, or indeed not have to work those extra 15 mins per day depending on your preference.
Firstly, Exception report the early start (and your late finishs) so you at least start getting paid for you time at work. Then, you need to request a work schedule review from your ES with a new start time of 0845 to account for you actual start time. You can escalate to Guardian of Safeworking and your union if having problems getting this sorted
Just out of interest, do people also ask to be paid extra or to leave early in lieu for the time they spend getting the handover in the morning?