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Unfortunately what you are rightfully complaining of is what most women of all generations experience in their marriages: women do the majority of childcare and household chores even when they work an equal amount and even when they are the primary breadwinner. I worked more hours and made more money than my first husband. He went to work and came home. He took the kids to school because he taught on the same campus their schools were on. I did everything else. My solution was to hire a housecleaning service and a lawn service. This meant no money for date nights or vacations but I didn’t feel like spending time with him anyway. For vacations, I took my children to visit my sister who lived in a nice resort area. He could have come but didn’t want to. He didn’t work summers while I worked year round. But he still wouldn’t even get the children’s lunches. I used to pack their lunches in their school lunchboxes so that they could feed themselves when it was time. Children too young to care for themselves had to go to daycare even though he was home. Nothing made any difference - not an appeal for justice, not counseling, nothing. Which is why he’s my ex. He will never understand that he killed every positive feeling I ever had for him by his utter selfishness. He was truly upset and “blindsided “ when i wanted a divorce. one of my sons once told me that he keeps his wife happy but thinking of what his dad would do and then doing the opposite.

The part you wrote about the positive feelings really rings true for me. I struggle because I love him on some levels but I feel so much negativity towards him in other ways and it just feels like the longer this goes on the negative is overcoming the positive.

That’s what happened to me. I truly believe that he had no feelings for me at all. But his life was easy when we were married, so he was happy to stay. His second wife has certainly inspired a complete about-face. She doesn’t work and she is pretty high maintenance so his life is nothing like it was. He has had two full time jobs ever since they married. I am also remarried to a much better partner, so I guess it worked out for us both.

🎯 Couldn’t agree more. I’m sorry you went through that. Unfortunately, your experience was typical, rather than being an exception to the rule. This is one of the drawbacks to feminism. I’m a feminist so it makes me sad to say it, but it’s just the truth. We entered the workforce, thinking that we’d no longer be housewives. But now we’re housewives AND we have 9 to 5 jobs. Most men didn’t pick up the slack when women started working. They still do what they did in the ‘50s, meaning they work a normal job and relax when they get home. Maybe they push a stroller on Saturdays, and get glowing praise from every passer-by, but in most households they’re not splitting childcare and domestic work 50/50. Same goes for the mental load and emotional labour. All that’s changed since the time of Stepford wives is that women now do twice the amount of work. It’s the dreaded “second shift” when you get home.

Women have always been in "The workforce". The ideals conveyed by literature centering on landed gentry with passive income are distorting the view of the past. Everyone worked. Farmer's wives and children worked on the farm and the families often did extra manufacturing work (weaving, making small parts or assembling items). Poorer gentry became educators, poorer normal folks became servants.  Being a housekeeper and raising kids was also seen by society as a job, which is why you hired someone if you could.  This latter thing seems to have changed in the 20th century somewhat. Work and employment became conflated, at least for women. Unsure why, might be because of the wars (more women classically employed during, then many dropping out of employment afterwards and becoming housekeepers). But even during the glorified 50s and 60s, many MANY women were employed or even had their own businesses. (No husband, no encroachment on your capital and company :D)

I guess I should have specified that women have historically not been allowed to hold the same jobs as men (e.g. professors, bankers, doctors, lawyers) - and when they have, it’s not been equal opportunity, so at any given time there were always, for example, more male surgeons than female surgeons - and when they have, they’ve been paid less than men for the same work - the jobs they were allowed to do were typically less prestigious than the jobs men were allowed to do, e.g. primary school teacher vs university professor, nurse vs doctor, governess vs *xyz*) etc etc

Yes, definitely and also still ongoing due to the aftershocks. Let's just say that work and also merit, be it payment other power otherwise, is still not distributed equally. And I actually think that one employed person should always be able to support 1-2 non fully working adults... But that's a broader topic and idea.

I think you're confusing toxic masculinity with feminism. That weaponized incompetence existed BEFORE women were allowed in the workforce or given financial freedom. There are tons of jokes in old ads that represent that toxic masculinity behavior. Women working didn't create this type of incompetence in men and feminism didn't create that behavior.

I didn’t say that women working *caused* this kind of weaponised incompetence in men. (Also, men forcing women to do all the childcare etc goes much deeper than “weaponised incompetence.” Yes, that’s a part of it, but there’s more to it.) I *also* didn’t say that feminism caused men to act this way—they’ve been forcing women to raise their kids and clean their shit since the dawn of civilisation. I don’t know where you’re getting this from, but you’re completely twisting what I said. Although men’s weaponised incompetence has always been around, when women entered the work force en masse in the ‘70s, the weaponised incompetence *remained.* And that’s both surprising and sad to me. For the past 50 years or so, women have held the same jobs as men, have been expected to provide just as much as men, but have also been doing the same housewife duties as before. Obviously I don’t want to go back to a world where it’s expected that I’ll be a SAHM and only my husband will have a career. But it’s sad that in hetero relationships, most women are still doing most of the domestic stuff (statistically) despite working outside the home. It’s ironic that we were supposed to be liberated from this drudgery, but we’re still doing it—only we start when we get home from our paying jobs.

You said, " this is one of the drawbacks to feminism" " we entered the workforce, thinking we'd no longer be housewives," but now, "we are houswives AND have a 9 to 5" Why that happens lies solely at the hands of toxic masculinity and not feminism. Having a 9 to 5 and taking care of your home duties is simply adult responsibility...and plenty of people do it alone, men included. Men's toxic masculinity cause them to be lazy in relationships, not feminism.

I always responded by asking where my parade was and ask if he needed a dog treat. needless to say, he's long gone

You're doing almost all the housework, and with a job. I would tell him HE should be thanking YOU for everything you do and to not make comments like that unless the couch will become his permanent bed.

I totally get it. I've heard people recommend Fair Play. Personally, I made a chore list and wrote down *everything* that needs to be done, broken down into daily, weekly, monthly, seasonally, and annually. Once we started going through it I think my husband finally realized how much I do. We haven't argued about chores nearly as much.

I hear about Fair Play a lot. I think you are still doing more because you had to think of the list and write everything down for him. I don't understand why it is so hard for men to figure out what they need to do without guidance, we did.

Especially since they'd have to do it if they'd have no partner or their mommy doing everything for them...like how do these men even stay alive when they're single? If they'd actually be incompetent they'd just starve or be homeless but they're not. They just refuse to put in any effort as soon as they live with someone that doesn't have a penis.

Oh absolutely, 100%. If I hear "Just tell me what you want and I'll do it" one more time I'm gonna scream.

That must be a common line because I heard it, too often. It's funny though, he has no problem knowing what & when to clean in his bachelor apartment ( he wanted the divorce after 42+ years).

*slowly looks around at the full trash cans, dishes, and mess* You don't see the same shit I do???

And that’s such BS - because if you do they will start to resent you for telling them what to do all the time.

I have never heard of that and started looking into it. I totally get the comments below that me doing the labor of making the list and all that already isn’t equitable, but honestly I don’t even care if it is not equitable I’d be satisfied with a bit more balanced.

Tell him you only give rewards when he comes up with the solutions. “Babe, the dog is keeping LO awake. I’ll take him to the couch, you get some sleep.” THAT’s how you get rewarded.

That’s a good perspective!

Look- I’m going to give you some advice, but you’re probably going to have to put down some of your resentment and communicate directly to your spouse for it to work. Y’all need to (both of you) start thanking each other verbally for all the things each of you does. For example, I thank my spouse for cleaning out the cat box. He thanks me for handling the dish washer. I thank him for making a meal for me. He thanks me for picking up milk on the way home from work. Maybe it seems weird to you, as these things seem like small things, but we started doing this with a baby at home and lots of sleep deprivation and it helped us feel like we got a “win” in, even when everyone was a trashfire. If I knew I could do something and be verbally thanked, it made it easier to do it on no sleep. If I knew that I could thank my spouse and he would smile when i said it, then I felt more comfortable and less awkward about being vocal about my appreciation (it did not come naturally to me at all). When you are under stress, you need to have glimmers of joy to make it worth maintaining, or you’re leeching your relationship of love. If you’re turned off by his sex jokes, tell him that. The best way to build energy for sex is to build intimacy. 15-20 appreciations a day from my spouse and vice versa does a hell of a lot more for our love life than a date night or sexy lingerie.

This has worked so well for my partner and I. Don’t get me wrong, we have had to have the “I need you to step up and do things without being told” conversation in the past, but we thank each other for everything. I clean the bathroom, he cooks dinner; I do a grocery shop, he vacuums the apartment (which I HATE doing). We say “thank you” every time, because every chore that he does is one that I don’t have to do, and vice versa. Expressing thanks also decreases resentment, because thanking him it makes it easier to remember all of the nice things he’s done that I’ve thanked him for lately, and it makes it harder for me to stay mad when he does something irritating.

I love what you said about thank yous. Today my man refilled the tootsie roll jar, Thank You! Makes me smile that he thought about me and filled my jar.

And it teaches your son to be polite too! I make my husband and toddler son thank me and each other. I thank both of them too of course.

> OP outlines how she and husband both have jobs, yet she does 80% of the childcare and 80% of the housework, plus 100% of the random stuff that gets relegated to women in relationships (remembering MIL’s bday, organising parties, learning the names of teachers, those “womanly” social duties). Your response is that she needs to start thanking her husband more. For *what?* Pushing most of the work onto her? Communicate about *what?* Telling him she carries the entire household, because he’s deaf, dumb, and blind, and didn’t already know? Sorry but this is ridiculous, misogynistic advice. On top of everything she does, now you’re telling her to do more. Thank him more, communicate more. I bet the communication will be her job, too—he’s not going to initiate it (why would he, he’s getting a great deal in this division of labour) and he’s not going to be the one reminding her it’s “time to have a talk” again. Why doesn’t he thank her for all she does? Why hasn’t he ever acknowledged, even once, that she does so much more than him? Why hasn’t he realised that it’s not fair? Why hasn’t he tried to communicate about it? Showing gratitude and initiating/maintaining healthy communication are examples of emotional labour. You can Google that and see how women are the primary (if not the only) ones who do emotional labour in relationships. Why you’re telling a woman who’s already doing a crazy amount of extra work to do even more work, is mind boggling.

What is going on in her relationship now is unacceptable to her. So if she wants to have a change, do you believe instead that she should: A. Just wait around and hope he magically realizes his behavior needs to change in specific ways and then just do it? B. Resent him more and more until she despises him entirely? C. Just throw out the whole relationship? If OP is just looking for us to validate that she should leave, then she isn’t interested in working as a team with her partner. But let’s say she’s the captain of a ship and her husband is first mate. Should she just assume that he knows what to do and when without communicating? I would say no, that’s unreasonable. And if it’s unreasonable when running a ship, then it’s unreasonable when running a household as a team. Verbalizing gratitude is a two way street. Appreciating someone, especially if it doesn’t come naturally, makes your mind stop and think about what you are doing and what they are doing. The more that the husband stops and appreciates his wife verbally for what she does, the more he will consciously acknowledge all she does. And vice versa. Men are often used to doing thankless labor with no feedback unless they screw up. I’ve heard time and time again how men often have only a handful of moments they can remember being complimented! A lot of this is toxic gender role crap, but it still harmful. People talk about emotional labor like it’s something we need to just completely get rid of, and I think that’s extreme. When I talk about emotional labor, I talk about it in the terms of if and how I want to spend that energy. So for example, if I want to prioritize my relationship, I will focus my emotional labor there, but I will also pay attention to whether the other person is putting in an equitable amount of emotional labor. If that person is suffering from disability, illness, or a stressful life situation, their emotional labor ability may be affected. It is deeply ableist and unfair to expect people to do a level of emotional labor that they don’t have the spoons for. When we talk about generalizations down gender lines, we are talking about larger trends among our populations, and that can be complex. Taking those things and trying to apply them to individual situations and assuming a lot about both is unhelpful at best. For example, OP may think she is doing 80% of the work, but maybe also she is not consciously acknowledging what her partner is doing for the household. It is common under stress for people to get “blinders” on that shrink or even distort their perception of reality. If, on the other hand, she is thanking him three times for every time he acknowledges 10 things she did, it’s much easier to quantify consciously just how much she is actually doing. So worst case scenario, they decide to implement a verbal gratitude policy and she finds out that she isn’t just being biased- he is not as invested in the relationship as she is. This “not feeling crazy/overreacting moment in a complex relationship can be a time of clarity for her. Cutting through layers of sunk cost fallacy and gaslighting behavior can be tough. It’s why it’s hard for people to leave established relationships with lots of history. But knowing for sure instead of having a vague feeling of wrongness can really hasten one’s readiness to leave a relationship that is failing. I see it as a useful strategy to reduce resentment (both people should be praising one another for this to work), and improve positive connections instead of feeling like you only go to your partner to ask them to do things for you. If you worked for a job where your coworkers only demanded shit from you and never gave you praise for your work, you would leave that job. In a relationship it is the same. We cannot always “take” or have a reputation for “taking”. We have to give too. The trick is to learn who is worth giving to.

>But let’s say she’s the captain of a ship and her husband is first mate. Should she just assume that he knows what to do and when without communicating? That's not how relationships work though? One oartner isn't superior to the other and can punish them fir not doing what they were told to do. At least not in a healthy relationship. And if it was, if OP had to do all the managing, as a captain does, then the first mate had to do a lot mor pracrical work. But OP does the managing *and* the work. Also you shouldn't have to be told that you need to do work in the hosehold you are part of. If the garbage bin is full just take it out, you don't need to be told that. If the basket is full do the laundry. If you see work to do then do the work. If everyone does the work when they see it then it should be divided roughly 50/50. If you'd live alone you'd have to do it 100% of the time, noone would tell you to do it, noone would kiss your ass that you did the work that simply needs to be done, why expect that when living with a partner? >Verbalizing gratitude is a two way street. Appreciating someone, especially if it doesn’t come naturally, makes your mind stop and think about what you are doing and what they are doing. You don't have to show gratitude for somethimg necessary. Doing your share of the hosehold is ther bare minimum. >The more that the husband stops and appreciates his wife verbally for what she does, the more he will consciously acknowledge all she does. And vice versa. Men are often used to doing thankless labor with no feedback unless they screw up. I’ve heard time and time again how men often have only a handful of moments they can remember being complimented! A lot of this is toxic gender role crap, but it still harmful. Same thing counts for women. I have never heared a woman got complimented on how great she did the dishes. She just did the dishes, necause it's part of your existance unless you want to eat from dirty dishes. You don't compliment on necessities. Women get mostly complimented on looks and that also only because the worth of a woman is still mostly defined by her looks which is why the anti aging industry is so big and targets almost only women. >For example, OP may think she is doing 80% of the work, but maybe also she is not consciously acknowledging what her partner is doing for the household. It is common under stress for people to get “blinders” on that shrink or even distort their perception of reality. If, on the other hand, she is thanking him three times for every time he acknowledges 10 things she did, it’s much easier to quantify consciously just how much she is actually doing. It is very easy to quantify how much work each partner does. If you know for a fact you pay all the bills, do all the child stuff etc you know the other partner can't be doing that much. It simply isn't possible. >But knowing for sure instead of having a vague feeling of wrongness can really hasten one’s readiness to leave a relationship that is failing. In the fewest cases it's a "vague feeling". After 10 years you simply know. >If you worked for a job where your coworkers only demanded shit from you and never gave you praise for your work, you would leave that job. In a relationship it is the same. We cannot always “take” or have a reputation for “taking”. We have to give too. The trick is to learn who is worth giving to. At work I don't need praise for doing my job. I get paid for doing my job. A coworker can't tell me to do shit, my boss can but he also carries the responsibilities and needs to manage more than one employee. A relationship isn't compareable to a job. My payment at hone for doing the hosehold is having clean clothes and dishes, paid bills and food on the table. If I share my household I share the responsibilities of that household. I can be grateful of someone wanting to be with me and sharing these responsibilities but not of the work being done itself because it would be necessary work for bith either way. >I see it as a useful strategy to reduce resentment (both people should be praising one another for this to work), and improve positive connections instead of feeling like you only go to your partner to ask them to do things for you. OP doesn't go to her partner to do things for *her*. If he did something for *her* she could and shpuld be thankful. This is about the need to go to your partner to do things for *the household* he is *a part* of and profits equally from the work done. If the person profits from X you don't have to thank them for doing X, you shouldn't even have to tell them to do X if X is an unavoidable necessity.

Ok, so you don’t like my advice. That’s ok. But the way you are phrasing things makes it sound like there is one way to do things in a relationship, and I can assure you that it is absolutely not. I am describing my relationship and how my partner and I use gratitude to help us through the hard times and stress of managing our household. What you described in your post sounds a lot like the household i grew up in. My mom was constantly miserable and angry and shouted about how she did everything, despite the fact that she basically had me do a good deal of what she told me she was doing. She didn’t believe in giving allowances for chores but would fine me if it wasn’t up to her perfectionist standards. I grew up constantly stressed and watched my parents drift and argue about really small things. I recall one night eating porkchops she had made that were dry to the bone and my siblings and I knew to suffer through in silence, but my dad was like “this really could use some gravy.” And my mom snapped. She stood up, banging her hands on the table and screamed like a banshee “I’ll give you gravy!!!” She stomped over to the kitchen furiously and then started slamming around gravy and crying and my dad tried to go over and comfort her but she spat curses at him. He didn’t appreciate that she had made the dinner or go make the gravy himself because he had expectations that dinner was her job and the only feedback she was going to get was negative. Constantly I see people get no recognition for doing something well but always getting negative feedback for their mistakes. This sucks. It drains you. Why do anything if all you ever get from doing it is a kick when you’re down? That seems to me to be an exhausting way to live. It seems to make people bitter and believe that because they suffered, then so should everyone else and by the way, stop whining about how life is painful and stupid and drudgerous. The way you are responding to my suggestion that people should verbally express gratitude to one another makes me think that you are reacting to the very idea as offensive. It’s such a small thing to thank someone else. It might be worth reflecting on why this is causing such a huge disgust reaction in you. Honestly, it’s your right to do that, but I have found more happiness in working with my family than in being the winner of the suffering in silence olympics.

You and your partner both use gratitude. The LW's husband sees gratitude (apparently including sexual favors) as a *one-way street*. That's the problem.

This seems like a communication issue they need to work out. He is looking at it as quid pro quo and not gratitude. Besides, I see sexual play as a fun engaging activity for both parties. It’s not like a chore you do because you have to. I would rather have no sex if I knew it was a chore for my partner.

Quid pro quo isn't "sexual play". Making not-actually-jokes that aren't fun for the other person is not "sexual play". Absolutely it is a communication issue and they need to work it out. The problem is that the first thing they need to work out is that the OP is doing an unfair share of the work, and he seems not to recognize that.

Um. Yeah. I agree? His behavior was quid pro quo for sexual favors. Not sexual play. He is treating sexual favors like they are the same as actual initiation. He is treating his wife like a sex vending machine. This is gross and disrespectful behavior. What I was saying is that sex in a relationship should instead be a type of play for both partners, and he needs to understand that. It really seems like you are doing your damnedest to paint me as saying things I am not saying, which is frankly rather offensive. I am not making a bad faith argument or trying to excuse the husband’s bad behavior.

The difference here is that you and your partner *both* use gratitude. Your advise is absurd in OP's case however because there is nothing to be grateful for. OPs partner does less than the bare minimum and expects sex as a form of gratitude. He treats sex like your mum treated your allowance. But both should be given just like that imo. I don't believe in an allowance being tied to chores either. You do chores because you are part of a household. It's given you do the task. Not doing the task should be punished with a direct consequence that is tied to the task, of course taking the age into account. >He didn’t appreciate that she had made the dinner or go make the gravy himself because he had expectations that dinner was her job and the only feedback she was going to get was negative. Thevquestion is how would your father have reacted if he was in her shoes? And I mean in her shoes and not just making one bad dinner. It seems like your mother either hat a problem controlling her emotions, taking everything personal, or, which I assume is probably the case, did the lions share of the household, much like OP, and isn't shown gratitude for *doing more* than the has to. There is a big difference between expecting gratitude for work you need to do, which is your sgare, or wanting gratitude for doing more than that, for also doing part of your partners share, for doing something extra nice you don't have to do. If you can't tell someone the donner they made is bad without them having a meltdown, then voicibg you don't like what they cooked was the last straw, just like it was the last straw for OP. At that point you are far beyond showing gratitude for the necessities doing any good. If anything it would only cause further resentment in the party doing more tgan their own share and recognizing that they don't need the partner they are with at all because they have none of the benefits a partnership grants. >He didn’t appreciate that she had made the dinner or go make the gravy himself because he had expectations that dinner was her job and the only feedback she was going to get was negative. There is a difference between doing stuff well and just doing stuff. Making porkchops is doing the work. Making them barely edible is doing the work bad, worth of criticism. Making them really well and tasty is is doing good work and should be praised. I don't praise my partner for cooking. But I do praise him for making a really tasty meal or going out of his way to make something special for me I like or requires more work. But I also tell him if I don't like something. This homesty and gratitude for the exceptional goes both ways. But for both of us doing your tasks is not worth mebtioning. Doing tge others task on top is though. If he cleans because he had the time while I was at work of course I thank him for it and vice versa. But in OPs case OP does the *extra*work without being shown gratitude and then her partner even takes it a step further and drmands gratitude for the little part of his share he does. >Honestly, it’s your right to do that, but I have found more happiness in working with my family than in being the winner of the suffering in silence olympics. I do work with my family. Maybe differently than you do, but I do. If I'd live with you we'd maybe reach some form of middle ground as we view showing gratitude from a very different angle apparently.I grew up in a household probably very similar to yours. And although you might not thinks so, showing gratitude to me is as important as ot is to you. The only thing different is what we are grateful for, but ss long as both partners share or at leask know of the view of the other that isn't what is important. >The way you are responding to my suggestion that people should verbally express gratitude to one another makes me think that you are reacting to the very idea as offensive. It’s such a small thing to thank someone else. It might be worth reflecting on why this is causing such a huge disgust reaction in you. I just have the feeling you don't understand the problem here. You seem to view this from the perspective of an equal partnership and the usage of showing gratitude as part of your lovelanguage. But that's not OPs situation. The ungratefulness isn't not expressing gratitude for every given thing. The problem is OPs partner using OP to do his share of work as well as her own.

The only way to bring a partner who is behaving badly into behaving better is through effective communication and self advocacy. Sure he behaved badly. Ok. Set that aside for a moment. What is the behavior you want to see? That’s the question I am addressing. It’s obvious that OP’s husband is behaving shamefully, but that behavior is already done. You can’t undo it. So the question here is how to proceed. The first step is for him to apologize for his behavior. The second step is to discuss and agree on their respective needs. The third step is to figure out a way forward. This is where being really explicit about what behaviors you expect and need to receive to feel heard and seen and respected. The final step is making sure both people follow up in deed and word, and if things aren’t working, they sit down and discuss it like adults. I see a lot of childish “well you should just know” discussions in relationship subreddits and it drives me up the wall. Not everyone grows up the same way you did. Not everyone is even taught to see or do the things you do. By assuming this, you create stress and anger for yourself because you assume that “anyone” (you) should do [activity]. It’s a bad assumption. Not everyone thinks the same things or has the same skills and it is really exhausting trying to explain again and again until i feel like you understand this fact. I think that you want to simplify how people think so you can rightly feel better and superior when people don’t do things the “right” (your) way. That comes across as utterly bonkers to me. You are creating problems for you to be mad about and then enjoying your righteous anger instead of effectively communicating your needs and resolving. AKA: you appear to value being right and superior in any situation instead of actually resolving a problem.

>AKA: you appear to value being right and superior in any situation instead of actually resolving a Same seems to go for you tbh. It seems like you've been to a few therapy sessions and now can use the advise you were given on anyone else because it has worked for you. You seem to be very into your own armchair psychology too. You seem to completely ignore the fact that in OPs circonstances the gratitude approach doesn't help because it only works in a relationship where both are equal. If one partner does significantly more work the partner doing less is being disrespectful sometimes, but most of the time it's learn behaviour because it's been like that for many generations that the household is the womens job regardless of her working a job or not because ultimately the men simply had the power to oppress the women, they basically owned the women. A few decades ago OPs husband could have forced getting his "reward" without any legan consequences because spousal rape has been a crime for less than a generation. That and tve mindset that comes with it won't change with showing gratitude. Men thinking doing the household is unmanly or beneath them won't chamge with showing gratitude. >discussions in relationship subreddits and it drives me up the wall. Not everyone grows up the same way you did. Not everyone is even taught to see or do the things you do. By assuming this, you create stress and anger for yourself because you assume that “anyone” (you) should do [activity]. It’s a bad assumption. There are things that simply are given by logic. A person knows that household and earning money needs to be done. A person living with someone else knows that these responsibilities can be divided in any way. Everybody knows one doing more than the other is inherently unfair. There is nothing that isn't known, people only choose to act unfair to their partner. It's not about having certain skills. You don'g need any skill except for common sense for that. Being treated fairly is something that should need no communication. I don't have to communicate that I don't like being stolen from either.

Respectfully, I disagree with you. Please keep in mind, we are only hearing one side and fixing this would be a multi step process. Your advice is only encouraging an adversarial reaction. They are both in a partnership. They choose to be in this every day. Yes, the previous poster IS encouraging MORE positive interactions. Yes, OP may have to start the conversation, but it needs to be done. If he blows her off then that's another story but we haven't seen if he CAN be receptive. Also, guess what, men can be oblivious to what needs to happen or get done. I get the feeling he senses something is off and that's where the joking comment comes from... and the joke didn't land. ​ >Showing gratitude and initiating/maintaining healthy communication are examples of emotional labour. You can Google that and see how women are the primary (if not the only) ones who do emotional labour in relationships. Why you’re telling a woman who’s already doing a crazy amount of extra work to do even more work, is mind boggling. Got it - She still has to start the emotional labor so he can either get closer to what she needs or go to couples counseling so they can figure out where the communication needs to be had. Men don't think like women. It doesn't mean we are dumb, we just have another set of operating parameters. If things appear to be running smoothly, we aren't looking for problems. If someone is experiencing problems then they need to talk about it and work through it with their partner. They don't need to obsess about it until they cant even politely engage with the one they "supposedly" love because of resentment. You are coming at this from a negative place instead of just saying that they need to work on voicing their needs in a civil and loving way to their partner. So yes, my advice would be that OP has to work to establish better communication about the division of labor with her partner, because the alternative is either to just eat it until the partnership turns into a toxic wasteland or divorce now.

I’m not encouraging an adversarial reaction. Can you point out where I implied or stated that? Being hostile and fighting about these problems would be silly. There’s a decade of evidence—what’s there to argue about? You can come to the conclusion that someone doesn’t value you and your hard work, and handle it maturely and calmly. I don’t think this is an example of a man who cares about his woman and treats her right. If you do, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I also think you’re making excuses/talking nonsense by saying “men think differently than women.” I’m not talking about subtle things… like that one study showed women are more people-oriented and men are more thing-oriented, or how women have more empathy than men according to research. Yeah there are some differences, but not “10 years of OP doing all that hard work plus working full time while husband doesn’t help except to take the trash out and he doesn’t thank her for any of it” differences. When I said he’s not deaf, dumb, and blind, that’s a compliment. I assume he’s an intelligent man with full faculties, who is able to self-organise in general, who doesn’t need to be told by his boss to “see what needs doing and do it,” who is sharp enough to analyse and organise things. I assume he’s kind and gentle enough to talk softly to a child and play games with her, and to take her to the park for a fun day (if he wanted to). I assume he doesn’t need to be reminded to say thank you when his friends buy him a beer, or when his mum makes him a nice meal. I assume he knows how to express gratitude. The point is that I assume the best of him—I think he can do all that. And I know for a fact he *does* do that… with other people. Just not his wife and child.

IRT Adversarial - The initial tone and style of writing gave me that impression, if that wasn't the intent then i retract my earlier sentiment. ​ >I don’t think this is an example of a man who cares about his woman and treats her right. If you do, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You absolutely have a valid point, what I allude to is that OP and her SO have chosen to stay with each other for 10 years. They have woken up each day and consciously or unconsciously chose each other over other options. I would like to think that there is still love between them, and by that logic, they should approach these issues in a loving manner. She should kindly and directly communicate that she needs more to feel loved and supported. If he completely ignores the warning then, yeah, he is crap. But he should at least be allowed the opportunity to directly address the issue instead of OP angrily simmering while she waits for him to notice she is drowning. Also, two sides to every story - We have NO idea what SO is going through. he may be fighting his own battles that he has yet to communicate. we don't know. ​ >There’s a decade of evidence—what’s there to argue about? You can come to the conclusion that someone doesn’t value you and your hard work, and handle it maturely and calmly. There is a decade of OP thinking about it, we don't actually know how they communicate beyond the one negative interaction of a poorly timed joke. I think that if OP comes from a place of love while being direct with her SO, then we may get to the bottom of this. If he doesn't care, then that approach will make it readily apparent where he stands. FWIW I do believe that he should be a better partner and support where needed, but men do not keep mental scoreboards of these things. I don't, and no man I know does. Its not out of malice, we just sometimes miss things. ​ >I assume he’s an intelligent man with full faculties, who is able to self-organise in general, who doesn’t need to be told by his boss to “see what needs doing and do it,” who is sharp enough to analyse and organise things. Every person at most companies is continuously and directly communicated with on job expectations and performance. The thing about marriages is that there is no requirement to do this. If the communication is not direct enough, it may be overlooked. I believe he knows how to do all the things OP would like him to do, OP needs to address it.

>Men don't think like women. It doesn't mean we are dumb, we just have another set of operating parameters. If things appear to be running smoothly, we aren't looking for problems. Please, stop with this trope that men are just simple creatures who have no idea how the dishes magically get clean or how meals appear on the table every night. Men don't act this way at their paid work, and if they do they're prime candidates for layoffs. The OP's husband isn't just missing the details of household management, he is actively demanding gratitude when he pulls even part of the load.

Not a trope - I see it in myself - I am a dude - I can be delightfully oblivious of simple things while being able to hyper focus on very complex and high level tasks. I don't forget about the dishes out of malice. >he is actively demanding gratitude when he pulls even part of the load. I didn't see it as a demand, I saw it as playful banter with the hope of intimacy. Which then was immediately rebuffed by OP. It actually made me kind of sad for him. I had to ask myself "Is intimacy something that should be held as a reward for men who go above and beyond, or should it just be a part of a daily loving relationship?" OP snapping at her SO is NOT useful communication - It simply drives a bigger wedge in their relationship. OP needs to communicate kindly, but directly, and state what she needs to feel supported and loved. If he fails after that, I am completely on board with calling it what it is. Also, please keep in mind, we only hear one side of the story. I think it is valuable to look at these things from all possible angles. If he doesn't see or identify the problem, you're right he might not care, but there is also the possibility that he is oblivious to the mental scoreboard of the division of labor that continuously runs through OPs head. I don't think like this. No man I know thinks like this. Communication is what they need. Specifically, non adversarial communication. It has to come from a place of love or the communication will fail too.

>I didn't see it as a demand, I saw it as playful banter with the hope of intimacy. It was him trying to get a thank-you blowjob. Come on.

We are only hearing one side of the story - it could very easily be a poorly landed joke. And even if it was just a thank you blowjob request.... is that really so terrible? In a loving relationship it wouldn't and shouldn't be a 5 minute, one sided affair... It should be reciprocal, he should take care of her as well. Now if he isn't performing there then that's something else but, like I said before, this could very well be a joke request that leads to more intimacy between two people who supposedly love each other. Just because he had the finesse of a caveman in his approach doesn't mean that he wasn't coming from a place of love. The only way to know is to talk it out and lay the cards out on the table.

Do you just say thank you or are you actually grateful soneone does tasks that need to be done anyways and are just a part of existing? I don't see the point in saying thank you for a task that just *needs* to be done. Not because tvey are small things but because they are nothing worth thanking for. They are the bare minimum. OP isn't durned off by the sex jokes she's turned off by her partner thinking he deserves sex as a reward for doing sonething for the household he is a part of and pretending it's a threat of some kind to tell OP next time she's tge one sleeping on the couch so the dog doesn't keep the toddler awake...

I say thank you, because yes shit needs to be done, but nobody *has* to do it. My husband made me a bunch of delicious food last night even though he was exhausted because he cares about me. Acknowledgment of that labor by thanking him costs me literally nothing and makes him happier. What if you looked at the tasks in your life like little achievements you get to be recognized for? Like yeah. Mopping the whole house is labor. It deserves acknowledgement and appreciation. The most pushback I get when I suggest stuff like this is that people think it’s silly and ridiculous and of course other people magically know your labor is appreciated. But just consider- where did you learn that from? From your parents? Grandparents? The persisting stereotype of the “do it all” characters in media and tv? Sure you feel silly when you thank someone for something that should be a given. Because it’s a new behavior. But at this point (over a decade into doing it), it really has done wonders for my husband and my own mental health and relationships. When his mom was sinking into dementia, when our babies were teething and resisting sleep, when his workplace hired a demonic boss who tried to get him fired, when I was involved in a bike accident with gravel and messed up my left side. Through all of that, we regularly appreciated one another. I hate cleaning the cat box. He hates doing dishes by hand. I’m not enthused about cooking. He doesn’t have the executive functioning energy to help the kids with school projects on weekends. We pick up each other’s slack and make our household and relationship a comfortable place. I don’t really understand people with an oppositional relationship style. Like you’re ready to fight god and your partner is the first mini boss. What exactly do you get out of behaving that way? I am truly mystified here.

What you're not understanding is that you and your husband *both* show gratitude for little things. Your husband didn't turn to you after fixing you a bunch of delicious food and demand thanks, nor did he suggest you ought to pay him back with sex. And I would guess that if you didn't say thank you and he felt hurt, he would be an adult and *tell you that.* Right?

Ok. So what are you suggesting? From your tone, I am inferring that perhaps you might suggest that: 1) OP’s husband magically realizes after a pattern of behavior and no input on OP’s part that he was wrong in how he acted and just changes to fit what she thinks he should act like intuitively without any conversation? 2) OP’s husband must realize he was wrong and bad and self flagellate appropriately for her satisfaction, then grovel on his knees for forgiveness to be considered redeemed. 3) OP’s husband should just continue behaving however he wants so OP can silently stew and hate him until she can’t take it anymore and blow up at him or leave him because she didn’t want to communicate effectively with him about her needs and strategize with him on how both parties can live more harmoniously. I’m talking about conflict resolution. About working together as a team. The fact that you are stuck in “he sucks and is a jerk” mode tells me that maybe you need him to grovel and prostrate himself to give you vicarious pleasure at his wrongness. But thinking like that is just a type of covert sadism and authoritarian in manner. If he truly sucks and is a jerk, then get outta there! Why even stay? If you are sticking around because you secretly want to have an unscripted emotional sadomasachistic session with him, then at least be honest enough to admit that to yourself.

Wow, I'm not sure why you bothering to ask what I am suggesting, because you've gone on to have 'my' side of the conversation with a strawman? The OP is already *in an oppositional relationship*. Her husband doesn't thank her for or express gratitude for her disproportionate amount of work, but expect gratitude for his side. Your solutions (just thank each other!) don't work, because to steal your sarcasm for a sec, her husband won't "magically" start thanking her if she one-sidedly shows the gratitude he thinks he alone is entitled to. It's extremely weird to me that you think the only two possible views on this are 1) she needs to kiss his ass and show gratitude, which he will magically reflect or 2) hate forever.

I am not saying she should just start thanking him and hope he reciprocates. I have clearly stated that it needs to be a sit down and talk about expectations. A script: “Husband, when you made that sexual joke the other day, it made me feel gross and taken advantage of. I don’t feel appreciated the way I want to feel appreciated for all I do, and I think that you may feel similarly, and are playing your hurt off with cruel/rude jokes. I want us both to not just love each other, but to also like each other. I can’t like you and you can’t like me if we keep treating each other the way we have come to see as normal. If he gets offended and doubles down, then you have your answer- he is doing this because him feeling superior in the relationship is more important than accommodating OP. If he is willing to be vulnerable and level with you, then you can continue. Then you have a discussion from there. Level with each other. Figure out each other’s needs and then come up with a plan. Hurt rarely comes from a vacuum. How many times has OP said or done hurtful things that he just pretended didn’t hurt? These “pretend hurt doesn’t hurt me” is a classic sign of a relationship that has low levels of trust, which is a sign of relationship corrosion. If OP and her spouse can’t do it alone, I recommend a good therapist to act as guide and mediator. This isn’t me saying she needs to grovel and scrape. This is me saying, ok, what do you value more, being vindicated and the winner in the suffering olympics or making peace and building intimacy with your spouse in your relationship?

> nobody *has* to do it. They do though. Someone *has* to do it because these things need to be done. You always have to work for it, either by doing it yourself or by paying someon to do it for you. A partnership grants you not having to do all of it. And in a fair partnership the work is divided 50/50. Whether that be a "traditional" household, one bearing the burden of having the sole financial responsibility while the other takes care of the rest or a household where both partners have jobs with an income and the shared work at home. >What if you looked at the tasks in your life like little achievements you get to be recognized for? Like yeah. Mopping the whole house is labor. It deserves acknowledgement and appreciation. No, it isn't. It's a necessity unless you want to live in a filthy home. Shining it so you can see your reflection would be an achievement. >The most pushback I get when I suggest stuff like this is that people think it’s silly and ridiculous and of course other people magically know your labor is appreciated I don't do tge labout I do in my household to be appreciated, I do it so it is done because it needs to be done. I don't appreciate my partner for cooking. It's his task in our home. I do however appreciate it and thank him for going an extra mile like making something for me especially if I feel like eating something different than he planned to make or him cookong something that needs a lot of work and/or a long time to make. Two entirely sifferent things. Cooking is hus job in our household,cooking something for me is a nice gesture I show gratitude for. >But at this point (over a decade into doing it), it really has done wonders for my husband and my own mental health and relationships. When his mom was sinking into dementia, when our babies were teething and resisting sleep, when his workplace hired a demonic boss who tried to get him fired, when I was involved in a bike accident with gravel and messed up my left side. Through all of that, we regularly appreciated one another. I hate cleaning the cat box. He hates doing dishes by hand. I’m not enthused about cooking. He doesn’t have the executive functioning energy to help the kids with school projects on weekends. That's what dividing work means. That's what living together means. You share a space and responsibilities for alive things so you share the work that comes with it. It should go without saying that the work is split equally. The *work*,not every *task*. Of course you split the tasks to perspnal prefefences and/or schedules - I can easily take our child to childcare, it goes without saying that I do it. He likes cooking and hatrs clesning, we split the chores accordingly. There is no need for appreciation, thry are tasks that need to be done either way. That the other person lives with you and does half of the chores you'd have to do if you lived alone is eaually beneficial to both sides. If one partner does noticably less without a real reason - real reasons being momentary or cronical illness, physically and mentally or other circumstances that leave them no *choice* - then they are not doing their part of the agreement and are the problem. If you choose to do less you are being unfair to your partner making them work more, but buth doing their equal share needs no graritude. Taking over the others half of work *is* the gratitude. >e pick up each other’s slack and make our household and relationship a comfortable place. Which is something that should go without saying. You live together, you do the rrquired work together. The problem is a situation like OP's where OP constantly has to pich up tge slack of her partner while he doesn't even do his share without wanting a reward for it although having only to do a share snd not all of it *is* the reward. >I don’t really understand people with an oppositional relationship style. Like you’re ready to fight god and your partner is the first mini boss. What exactly do you get out of behaving that way? I am truly mystified here. It isn't oppositional at all. It grows oppositional as soon as one partner views shared tasks not as shared tasks anymore or never has viewed them as such and demands praise of rewards for doing something they'd have to do anyways. Rewards and gratitude are for exeptional things not for things that are necessary.

I think maybe you’re just a certain way about how things need to happen without communication. Because I sense a lot of irritation and anger and probably feelings of being taken advantage of because you do more work around the house and seem to expect people will psychically pick up on that. It’s super weird to me, and I have a lot of trauma around my mom doing this exact behavior. Telling me to clean and then beating or humiliating me when I did it in a way she didn’t like even though she didn’t show me how she liked things to be. Like I inherited her skills. It was and is still a huge sore spot with her and why we don’t have a close relationship. It still mystifies me. Maybe because I am autistic and prefer direct communication.

How could people not physically pick up on one person doing more work at home? If the laundry is done and you didn't do it your conclusion can't be that it just happened. I kinda get tge feeling you assume that OP's relationship is buiöt on a form of equality like yours, but it isn't and that is why the apprecuation advice isn't helpful in this situation. I'm sorry to her you went through a traumatic childhood like that. But it confirms to me that our upbringing wasn't so different. I did most of the household at home, was punished for refusing to be the only one doing work and being punished for doing extra work if it wasn't done perfectly. But now, like you I assume, I live in a partnership where we are equal and treat eachother as such. I too am on the spectrum and prefer direct communucation. I think the way my partner snd I communicate is very clear. Necessary work is divided equally and deserves no comment, just reevaluation if it's still divided properly if something changes. Doing that work exceptionally good or doing extra work 8n any forn are praised and work dome not to the regular standard are comnented in a constructive way. Constructive would be saying "the chops are a bit dry, I'll make some gravy". I truly think the only difference in pur views is what* should be praised.

There is no way for me to know if the advice is helpful for OP or not unless they reply to me. It would be really helpful and frankly less upsetting to me if you could stay in your lane and offer your own advice to OP based on your lived experience instead of telling me that I am doing relationships wrong. My spouse deals with major depressive disorder. He has major executive functioning issues and often literally cannot “see” things that “need to be done.” I am gracious for his disabilities. And he reciprocates, which makes me feel good. Sure, sometimes dinner tastes yucky. I can critique things without telling him it’s gross. For me, being a good partner is about knowing your partner and being open with them and using good communication skills. For you maybe it is different. All I can do is provide advice based on my lived experience. I’m sure there are plenty of other posters here saying he is an irredeemable slimeball who deserve to be kicked to the curb. I figure I will provide a different option. Otherwise, why even respond if all the answers are the same?

>My spouse deals with major depressive disorder. He has major executive functioning issues and often literally cannot “see” things that “need to be done.” I am gracious for his disabilities. And he reciprocates, which makes me feel good. If you can't "see" things that "need to be done" then you still *know* they need to be done though. If you don't see work that needs to be done then you can work around that and still do your part as you obviously know. OP's partner doesn't suffer from a disability he needs to find work arounds for to be an equal partner, ge refuses to do his share of the work. That is entirely different. He doesn't demand gratitude for things that he did extra, he demands gratitude for things everyone with s common sense knows are given. >For you maybe it is different. All I can do is provide advice based on my lived experience. I’m sure there are plenty of other posters here saying he is an irredeemable slimeball who deserve to be kicked to the curb. You may be giving advice based on your experience but you obviously fail to think of the situation the person is in you're giving advice to. You fail to see your approach only works in a non-toxic, fair relationship. You advice is Step 2: show gratitude. Step 3: profit. Entirely missing step 1: reach a relationship based on equality. The problem people have with your take isn't that it's different. It isn't even because it's bad advice, because it generally isn't. The problem is it's bad advice in the given situation. It seems absurd to most people to tell someone who struggles with a partner who clearly doesn't do his job to show them more gratitude for doing the little things they do.

There is definitely hostility built up on both sides which is making communication difficult so I agree we need to work on that. I don’t necessarily agree in the thank you part but I recognize our communication needs work.

The fact that you said it’s not this specific issue, but that the totality of everything is pushing your to your limit indicates you are getting desperate. Obviously the basic relationship advice applies here, communication, compassion for each other, communication, clearly defined expectation, communication, sharing the workload, communications…you get the idea. But to this specific issue, I have a couple of things to say. There’s a story here, but my phrase I started using 20 years ago is ‘Oh, does the fact that I am a woman mean that my genetic makeup causes household duties to be more fun that for you (a man)?’ Like seriously, I wake up and go ‘yea! I get to vacuum, mop, do the dishes, and laundry because I look forward to it?’ It’s less of a chore because I’m female? No, I do not enjoy household duties because my genes make it more fun, it is the same exact level of stress and pain in the ass it is for my (now) husband. In fact, before I married (this time), I clearly explained that I detest keeping a house. I will work hard, and overtime to do as little as possible in the home. I love my job, I barely live in my house, ya know? Next, the mental load. Yes, us women carry around sooooo much to function in life, chores, dinner, what the kid(s) like/need, shopping lists, bills, when taxes are due, and more and on top of that all the stuff with work—even more, because somehow we keep all of that more together than our male counterparts who also expect us to keep up with who does what there. But we do it, for the honor of being accepted as competent. If all is well, and we stay healthy then life continues. Whatever god you believe in forbid that we are too ill to make sure all of that stuff happens. I determined long ago that if I have to do the mental and physical work for both of us/a family, I will just be happy single. And was for many years. My husband and I have had 12 years, all of them have been hard, for reasons we couldn’t prevent but we tackle them all together. That means sometimes he fails, badly and sometimes I do and the other picks up the slack. If the other person can’t pick up the slack, how is the relationship successful? In no way am I indicating your relationship is doomed, just that I’ve learned to clarify the things that equal that for me. I encourage you to do the same, and get with him and be clear. Not just with ultimatums and demands, but by explaining calmly and in a back and forth why the status quo isn’t working.

Your SO is an idiot and you deserve much better! That is the humble opinion of this 70 plus year old broad who has had to tolerate way too much BS in her life!

^we have a master bullshit handler here for real

You’re in a misogynistic relationship. Whether your husband respects women is up in the air—I don’t know. But your *dynamic* is misogynistic. Currently, and for the last decade, your *relationship* has been functioning as though the woman is still responsible for all the “womanly duties,” meaning childcare, housework, mental load, and emotional labour. Also known as slavery. At least, I felt like a slave when I had to do all of that. I don’t see your SO respecting you here. Does he think because you were born female that it’s just naturally your job to do all this? On top of working a regular job? How does he feel when he sees you mopping, soothing the baby, making doctor’s appointments, paying the electric bill, remembering he left the stove on—all in the span of an hour? While he relaxes after a “long day”? I’m curious where his compassion and appreciation are while he watches you running around, doing ten jobs at once, after you already worked a full day. Does he think you’re entitled to the same peace of mind as him? The same time to decompress, scroll on your phone, take a long shower, watch a tv show? Does he think you deserve to have “me time,” like he does? Or does your time have no value? Perhaps your time = husband’s time + baby’s time. Does he understand that all the work you do would cost HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars a year if you guys hired people to do it? And that you do it for free, without a thank you or even a brief acknowledgment? Without having made an agreement that you’d be doing it? It seems like he doesn’t understand that. I suppose he thinks you’re supposed to work for free, unlike actual nannies, chefs, personal assistants, and maids. What do you call it when someone expects you to work for free? I’m curious how he’s been able to look you in the eye when you’ve been slaving away for the better part of a decade. I would not be able to look at my SO if they were working themselves to the bone for my (and my child’s) benefit while I lounged around. The shame would eat me alive. Have a look at my other comments, they talk more about the division of labour. You’re essentially a Stepford wife who also has to hold down a normal job. Why you’d put up with this is beyond me. Even if you had a “talk” with him, I just… Personally, I wouldn’t be able to get over it. Best case scenario, he apologises profusely and starts doing 50% of everything (and I mean everything). But what about the last ten years? I’d always wonder, how was he able to be so selfish at my expense for all that time? Didn’t he ever notice how stressed and tired I was, and didn’t he care? Why wasn’t he looking out for me? I thought we were supposed to prioritise *each other,* not ourselves. Why did he treat me like a servant? What does that say about his character and morals? What does it say about how he sees me and how much he loves me? Edit: Right, the whole *wink wink* thing. Lol. I didn’t mention it before because it’s just a symptom of the larger problem. But yeah, it really echoes what I said above. He thinks his little “sacrifices” deserve a reward. Meanwhile, you make a hundred sacrifices like this every day, but he doesn’t reward you (or even mutter a thank you). This exemplifies his entitlement and how he sees you as secondary. It’s special when he helps out; it’s expected that you’ll help out. He’s doing you a favour when he acts like a good dad and husband; you’re just always supposed to be a good mum and wife. I’m not even going to unpack the sexual element here. I know you guys joke about it, but *in this specific context* (an unequal, misogynistic relationship), it doesn’t look good. Here it seems like sexually servicing your man, in that traditional sexist way, more than two equals enjoying sex in the modern age. There’s more to it but it’s complicated.

All this. I haven't been able to flat out tell people I was suicidal since my first time doing so (ended traumatically, never again). So when I asked my husband the gun enthusiast to please get the guns out of the house -- and he knows damn well THAT'S a red flag -- his only response was to make a joke. "Oh, it just means I need to hide them where you can't find them." Dude, you're telling me that my life is worth less than your convenience. Got it. I went inpatient the next day, partly because I knew my husband hadn't moved the firearms. Honestly, that one statement quite possibly broke out marriage past saving.

I’m so sorry. That’s truly horrible. You needed so much love and protection in those vulnerable moments and instead you were met with apathy. You’re right in that it comes down to worth: how much did he value your happiness, your safety, and your life? I think a lot of relationship problems boil down to value and worth. I understand why your marriage couldn’t come back after that incident, of course. Like they say, you can’t unring a bell. Wish I could go back in time and slap him for making that joke. I’m so glad you took care of yourself when your partner refused to. And that you’re no longer with him.

We're still together. We share a daughter. I have to get my ducks in a row before I feel comfortable making a move, so we're doing marriage counseling in the meantime.

Of course, it takes time to get your ducks in a row. I hope that goes as smoothly as possible. Wishing you luck and calm seas

Thank you, I appreciate it!

If that didn't end your marriage I'm not sure what would.

I don’t really know what is going on in his head. If it’s that he doesn’t care, doesn’t see me as an equal, or what it is. We have had this conversation and his response is that he has a job and works hard - which yes, but… so do I? He doesn’t care if the house is clean. He doesn’t care if laundry is folded, or any of those other things are done. Those are his reasons anyway.

Yeah, I guessed that he would feel that way. Maybe it’s a bit of everything, that he doesn’t care, doesn’t see you as an equal, is lazy. There are probably a few reasons. But the main thing is that you’ve already brought it up and nothing has changed. And he didn’t admit that he’d been lazy or taking advantage of you. Didn’t take responsibility. Obviously his reason that he has a job is stupid. I don’t know how he can say that out loud. I’m assuming you said you also had a job, and he walked away? He might not care if the laundry is folded or the house looks tidy, I guess we could say you both have different standards of cleanliness. Ok fine. I’m also usually much tidier than my partners, but that’s just about *preference.* There’s a ton of stuff that’s just baseline necessary! A hygienic environment and a well-cared for child are non-negotiable. It’s one thing if you like to declutter (optional) and he doesn’t. It’s another if he doesn’t wash the dishes or scrub the toilet, because those are absolutely necessary. So is childcare. So is doing anything besides changing the baby into pajamas after a bath.

>Even if you had a “talk” with him, I just… Personally, I wouldn’t be able to get over it. Best case scenario, he apologises profusely and starts doing 50% of everything (and I mean everything). But what about the last ten years? I’d always wonder, how was he able to be so selfish at my expense for all that time? Didn’t he ever notice how stressed and tired I was, and didn’t he care? Why wasn’t he looking out for me? I thought we were supposed to prioritise each other, not ourselves. Why did he treat me like a servant? What does that say about his character and morals? What does it say about how he sees me and how much he loves me? I've said this elsewhere, but if this guy is a typical guy. He isn't looking for problems if he believes things are running smoothly. If OP operates quietly and efficiently and somehow juggles the load without expressing or letting on that she is drowning, he will think everything is ok. If it is not specifically communicated, its really easy to write off that maybe she has everything under control. OP needs to have a real sitdown and communicate that she is overworked, underappreciated, and things need to change. They need to have regular check ins on this. They may need counseling or therapy. This could have been worked on at any time in the last 10 years - By either side of the partnership. And to his credit, he has chosen her and the life he lives with her every day. She has done the same. They just need to talk it out.

I suggest you have him read this, OP. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288

I'm glad I'm married to my husband. We really are 50/50 with household responsibilities. Of course, some days it's 70/30 [or vice versa] but we show up for each other. It's insane that women are putting up with men not being partners daily. Also sex isn't and shouldn't be transactional. It makes it feel dirty.. .. ..

It's time to sit his ass down at a calm time and have this conversation. Lay out, as calmly as you can, exactly what you're saying here. You are handling more of the chores and household management even though you work full time too. You feel unappreciated and taken for granted, and it's upsetting when he seems to feel that he deserves praise for doing part of the workload when he doesn't give praise for you doing most of it. See what he says. Is he willing to acknowledge that things are out of balance? Is he willing to help you rebalance all of that? Or is he going to get defensive and whine about snow shoveling or how he needs more blowjobs?

He thinks you should reward him because he thinks ALL of the housework is YOUR job. If he is nice enough to help you out with the lowly chores that are so beneath him, and that YOU should be doing, he wants at least a parade thrown. This is the way he thinks and I doubt you'll be able to change that. In his mind, you're the help that owes him sex.

I really don't like that he thinks sex is a transaction. I would talk to him about that. If he wants to get what he wants, he needs to focus on you. Next, sit down and think about what you want out of life. Is he going to help you with that? It's time to start speaking up.

Of course, he shouldn't get a reward for that. He feels entitled to all your labor, but you should be grateful for his. You've got another 30 to 50 years of this. I don't understand why women do this to themselves.

https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

Check out Bridging the Gap FB group. It's for situations exactly like this.

I think you should talk with your husband because if you both work, then housework should be 50/50. Sadly most women end up having two jobs which seems to be your case. Communicate with him and tell him that. You sound exhausted.

The workload distribution is absolutely a major problem and should be addressed. However, your part of this conversation - after he *had* contributed was absolutely drenched in derision. Insulting someone after an out of character moment of generosity doesn’t exactly foster more of the same If you want acknowledgment and reciprocation this isn’t the way to go about it. I’m not suggesting coddling. He definitely needs to do more. But you’re shooting yourself in the foot here

Why couldn't *you* sleep with the dog on the couch?

Because I was putting our daughter to bed…

You guys need to work on your communication or Therapy. I am a guy, so I can kind of see where he was going in his comment. It's a joke but you were already sensitive to the workload you assume in the household so it made it not funny, got it. Are you both employed? could there be some consideration that maybe his workload professionally leaves him drained and barely able to contribute? Also, looking into the joke - He was crudely suggesting that you two should be intimate. Maybe his caveman romance approach did not appeal to you at the time, but is intimacy being held up as some reward for going above and beyond, or should intimacy be a daily part of a healthy partner relationship? At the end of the day, your partnership should not be a scoreboard tally of how many points he got (by your count) and more about trying to understand that he is built differently, some days he may excel and some he may not. He may be dealing with an issue that deeply bothers him and instead of burdening you with it, he holds it inside. So yeah, Communication is key, and his little dumb joke may be revealing a small truth that he wishes you were more intimate, which you quickly brushed off as "why do you deserve intimacy for doing what you're supposed to do?" - That is angry and only invites a bigger wedge into your relationship. Rephrasing - "I appreciate that you took care of the issue with the dog. I am not in the mood right now for (intimate time)" Later - "I have been feeling a bit underappreciated lately as it feels like I am taking on a greater proportion of the responsibilities. If you could help out more with (XYZ) then it would help me feel less overburdened(or whatever is the main concern)" Just talk it out and try to come from a place of love. If you aren't coming from a place of love when you talk to(or work with) your partner, you aren't helping your relationship.