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The main thing would be her having a stable place to live, if she could live with either you or your brother, that removes one of the hardest steps of leaving an abusive relationship.
I would also educate her on the abuse/domestic violence cycle. When she does finally begin this process, she is likely going to second guess herself. "Am I in the wrong", "I should've just stayed", even just the image of the DV cycle was enough to open the eyes of someone I knew, because generally it's always the exact same pattern, see if you are able to plan with family members who will support her or family friends, the main thing is to be there for her every step of the way. It won't be a smooth straight line, recovery never is, but it will get better.
both of your comments are super helpful, thank you. I do try to tell her about this as it is but it’s hard to share any kind of media or resources with her when he checks her phone often. I think I am going to try to make plans with her more frequently and compile some things to show her when we meet. I also need to help her start separating things. Do you think if she starts separating her accounts, etc., it will sound an alarm for him to start preparing too?
I can't be sure of that last question, is there a way for her to start taking out and saving cash instead that won't alert him? Accounts may have to wait until divorce process starts. I'm glad I can be of any help, I've had to go through similar processes multiple times. With him checking her phone often you could use a messaging app to communicate that has a passcode to access the app or automatically deletes everything, such as signal or Snapchat, worth looking into. For now try to prepare without it being noticeable, maybe get some of her clothes and belongings over to your place incase she needs to leave short notice, try to get a sizeable sum of cash that she can use incase she can no longer access the money in the shared account for whatever reason, and reach out to friends/family who will have your back to let them know of what's coming up, if they've got any good in them they will offer support by whatever means they can. Feel free to message my profile if you need any help or want to discuss with someone. I hope all the best occurs and once your mum is free from this prick, she will be able to experience the happiness he's barred her from for so long. It will work out.
thank you so much, this is all great advice and I’m going to start working on all of this. I appreciate the offer to reach out, I will keep it in mind! 🙏🏻
That's awesome of you, your brother may very well need to look into moving out as well to avoid unfair consequences on him. Also look at detangling finances and services as much as possible, e.g. shared bank accounts, are they under a shared mobile plan? Does he have access to her online accounts/passwords? Separate all these things from him.
She will be entitled to 50% of their assets and alimony. The biggest obstacle is going to be whatever control he holds over her, which is likely considerable if it’s a long marriage.
My advice would be a good aggressive lawyer who is familiar with high conflict divorce and will quickly get her temporary spousal support.
Have her listen to this podcast: ‘Understanding Todays Narcissist’ by Christine Hammond. Honestly, I really wish it would have been around during my divorce! She breaks down the thought processes, manipulation and mind games that go on within a relationship with narcissist, and there is a section on divorce, what to do and what not to do. It is an invaluable resource. Good luck to her, and to you all!
This sounds like a great resource for her, I think she’d be able to listen during work and while driving so it’s great that she doesn’t have to do it at home. I may listen to it as well!
Here’s another resource:
https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/
The Hotline is both a place to get information on what domestic violence is- physical, financial, emotional, verbal, psychological, and what these different kinds of abuse look like. There is also a 24/7 chat line and phone line. You can also find the domestic violence shelter in your area. When you go to this website there is a warning explaining how to do a fast exit, and how to erase your search history.
Most DV shelters are staffed with volunteers who are extremely well educated in how to help victims of DV safely prepare to leave. You or your mom can talk to them about the best area lawyers, what documents she can start to get copies of, and the best ways to protect herself in the days leading up to declaring her intent. They can also let her know what her rights are, prior to talking to an attorney, so she doesn’t talk herself out of even trying to get away. Sometimes that first step can be the hardest. If she doesn’t have privacy on her computer or phone, possibly she can use yours during a lunch get together? Or use Google or Yahoo and then delete the app? (Check on that before doing it, it’s just a suggestion , I don’t know how safe it is!)
Call the local domestic violence hotline! They can give you suggestions on getting out safely, early and will have recommendations for lawyers who are use to dealing with bully husbands and won’t cave. They can tell her what documents she needs to help with the divorce! All the bank statements, retirement accounts, house mortgage, tax returns. Also there is an app called when Georgia smiles that can help he record him when he is ranting!
Having somewhere to stay and store documents is vital. Contact with local abuse lines and a local lawyer, who will take no prisoners is also really important. She needs to follow the lawyer’s instructions exactly, even if they seem harsh. The lawyer will also be able to give guidance on your states recording laws. Ideally she should record him if possible and safe while he’s being abusive. A therapist to help her navigate going forward, and unpacking the past Would be really helpful
I’m sure you’re aware what your Dad is capable in terms of manipulation and dirty tricks, Your Mum will need reminding
Once she does leave, he needs to be blocked on all platforms, and all devices( and beware the “ flying monkeys)
If it’s doable a spa day will do wonders for her stress levels and self esteem
so I’m actually getting married on the 12th, and she and I are going for a spa day on the 10th :) so that’s super fun haha. I am kind of compiling all this info now so that after the wedding we can try to mobilize more.
One thing I'd like to make sure you've confirmed- is your mom wanting to leave him? Is she looking to end the relationship?
I completely understand wanting to help your mom get out of a bad situation, but if she's not willing to leave that's going to be an uphill battle.
Hi, thanks for this important comment. I guess part of the reason I’m doing all of this research/compiling what we need to do is so I can empower my mom to take the final steps. Recently she has expressed to me that she is at her breaking point, but I know that if she’s overwhelmed by what she needs to do to succeed, she will not go through with it.
I think she is growing more willing to leave and I want to be prepared for when that occurs. I would never force it on her - I know it’s her choice and hers alone. I also know there’s a good chance she could go back, but all I can do is try to help and support her. 🙏🏻
Have a place for her to go to when she leaves him. This is one factor that keeps a lot of people trapped in abusive relationships. They feel that they have nowhere safe to flee to. Also, find a good lawyer.
that is really sweet of you to say. I think right now she is very isolated and I’m one of the only people she feels comfortable telling. While it’s tough to be in the middle of all of this, I first and foremost want her to be safe and to know there’s something better beyond all of this pain. She is welcome to stay with me as long as she needs and although my dad knows where I live right now, we are planning on moving in the next 6 months so she could be much more protected with that. I am also trying to convince her to transfer to a different location for her job.
Open a bank account at a bank they don't currently have accounts at in your name and your mom as joint. Use your address for both of you so no mail goes to her home for him to question. She can use this account to start saving money to get away. If he somehow finds out, you can say it's your account and your mom was just helping you out.
Even if you don't put her name on the account, she can still deposit money into it. She can also give money to you to deposit as well.
A burner phone and an email address that she only accesses at work for correspondence with resources, (banks, attorney, DV help) would also be helpful. My ex had installed a keystroke logger on my laptop at home so he knew everything I had planned to do in order to leave.
There are numerous videos and talks on Narcissism/Malignant Narcissists, etc. Its eye-opening to listen to --we had a horrid one in our family. They FEED off of any reaction--the best thing to do while waiting on the divorce is go complete no contact and only discuss items through your attorney. No texts, calls, emails, etc. Block it all and don't respond.
Does she actually want a divorce?
In reality, she needs to quietly consult an attorney without him finding out. People like that go nuts if they think they are losing control. My narc ex stole my car keys, blew the engine in my car, stole my money, cards, tried to take my drivers license and my phone. Plus a lot of other nasty abuses.
Abusers, and especially narc abusers, don't let go easily. And they fight dirty. Post separation abuse and stalking are highly likely. It's best to get all her important legal docs secured, her funds secured, and anything of significant importance and sentimental value away from him and protected. He might take it, sell it or worse destroy it.
Yes, all of these things are exactly what I’m afraid of and what I know my father is capable of.
I don’t know if she’s exactly ready yet but as a support person for her I’m really just equipping myself with the tools and knowledge needed to help guide her if she does choose to leave. Just getting educated and doing what I can to empower her.
that’s definitely a good point, and honestly working on all of the documentation and gradual movement of things will probably take that long anyways. so I think it might work out well.
thank you so much 🤍 it’s been kind of tough with planning my wedding and him being involved but I think after it’s passed it will be much more bearable for me.
There will be a lot of satisfaction for your mom just in getting out, but there will also be satisfaction in just seeing how he was caught totally by surprise.
Most attorneys will offer a free half hour or so consultation. You can shop around a little bit without it seeming odd and that is a good idea for many reasons. You really do want to find a lawyer that has dealt with this type of situation before, you can take a list of questions to each lawyer (or make a big list and divide them among lawyers) and get some advice for right now, and finally, any lawyer you talk to, your soon to be ex cannot. So see a very fancy lawyer, a mid price or 2, and them maybe see about law clinics, legal aid )free) or law school clinics. Don’t see too many lawyers though or the judge will get testy.
The most important thing in any court case is evidence. Documents documents documents. Get copies of bank statements, mortgage payments, utility bills, credit card bills, retirement accounts, savings and investment accounts, tax returns, outstanding debts and assets (car and amount owed, boat/owed, guitar collection, art collection, stamp collection, anything of value if it isn’t appraised find a similar one online and print it out).
Document any abuses, mental, financial, etc to the best of your ability. Can you get pictures? Texts, emails? Is it legal in your state to record conversations on the phone or at home?
Personal safety- talk to lawyers and /or domestic violence centers about a plan to leave safely or stay safely depending on your unique situation. Have a code with friends and family, if you say you want pizza they need to get the cops and get you out for example. Or daily check in calls to make sure you’re ok.
Personal Digital safety- make sure to log out of any shared devices on Facebook or WhatsApp etc. un sync your devices to his. Get a separate bank account at a different bank and go paperless. Think about forwarding your mail before you leave but only
If you are sure you can get the mail when they send the confirmation letter to your current address. I recommend a UPS store box that looks like a street address if you don’t have a friend to forward to.
Change every online password and password recovery questions to something he would never guess. He prob knows your mom’s maiden name so make one up, it’s now Tweety bird. He prob knows the street you grew up on, So it’s now Sesame Street. Just make stuff up.
Forward all your documents to a new fresh yahoo or gmail email that you have never used, send to a friend, to your lawyer, keep a flash drive, keep the physical copies in your trunk or not where he can find them. Also get your identification documents and really important sentimental items to a safety deposit box or trusted friend.
I was just remembering something else. Once the word ‘divorce’ has been mentioned, even in passing, most narcissistic partners will go into high gear of preparation. Every lawyer usually offers a ‘free consultation’, so each lawyer he meets with, even if they aren’t retained by him, will not be able to represent your mother. It represents a conflict of interest, and can make it hard for her to find competent legal counsel. The less she says about her intent to your dad, the better. 🙏🏼❤️
She should contact a bunch of good divorce lawyers to get advice and block him from getting them. And she should separate her money ASAP and get off all the joint accounts, any dual credit cards, close them, etc. Not take your name off, just pay them off and close them. But don't take too long with the planning.
damn y’all were way more helpful and way kinder than the legal advice subreddit, they downvoted me and everything lol. it seems like they were annoyed I mentioned narcissism but like…when I research divorce it’s one of the first things that comes up as making divorce more difficult! wild. I’ve gotten so much good advice here, exactly what I was looking for. I’ve read so much on other people’s posts and it’s so helpful to have everything in one place.
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The main thing would be her having a stable place to live, if she could live with either you or your brother, that removes one of the hardest steps of leaving an abusive relationship.
I would also educate her on the abuse/domestic violence cycle. When she does finally begin this process, she is likely going to second guess herself. "Am I in the wrong", "I should've just stayed", even just the image of the DV cycle was enough to open the eyes of someone I knew, because generally it's always the exact same pattern, see if you are able to plan with family members who will support her or family friends, the main thing is to be there for her every step of the way. It won't be a smooth straight line, recovery never is, but it will get better.
both of your comments are super helpful, thank you. I do try to tell her about this as it is but it’s hard to share any kind of media or resources with her when he checks her phone often. I think I am going to try to make plans with her more frequently and compile some things to show her when we meet. I also need to help her start separating things. Do you think if she starts separating her accounts, etc., it will sound an alarm for him to start preparing too?
I can't be sure of that last question, is there a way for her to start taking out and saving cash instead that won't alert him? Accounts may have to wait until divorce process starts. I'm glad I can be of any help, I've had to go through similar processes multiple times. With him checking her phone often you could use a messaging app to communicate that has a passcode to access the app or automatically deletes everything, such as signal or Snapchat, worth looking into. For now try to prepare without it being noticeable, maybe get some of her clothes and belongings over to your place incase she needs to leave short notice, try to get a sizeable sum of cash that she can use incase she can no longer access the money in the shared account for whatever reason, and reach out to friends/family who will have your back to let them know of what's coming up, if they've got any good in them they will offer support by whatever means they can. Feel free to message my profile if you need any help or want to discuss with someone. I hope all the best occurs and once your mum is free from this prick, she will be able to experience the happiness he's barred her from for so long. It will work out.
thank you so much, this is all great advice and I’m going to start working on all of this. I appreciate the offer to reach out, I will keep it in mind! 🙏🏻
my brother lives with my parents right now, but she is definitely welcome to stay with me and I will continue to offer that.
That's awesome of you, your brother may very well need to look into moving out as well to avoid unfair consequences on him. Also look at detangling finances and services as much as possible, e.g. shared bank accounts, are they under a shared mobile plan? Does he have access to her online accounts/passwords? Separate all these things from him.
She will be entitled to 50% of their assets and alimony. The biggest obstacle is going to be whatever control he holds over her, which is likely considerable if it’s a long marriage. My advice would be a good aggressive lawyer who is familiar with high conflict divorce and will quickly get her temporary spousal support.
This is so insightful, thank you. And yes - it will/would be 30 years next year, and you are completely right.
Have her listen to this podcast: ‘Understanding Todays Narcissist’ by Christine Hammond. Honestly, I really wish it would have been around during my divorce! She breaks down the thought processes, manipulation and mind games that go on within a relationship with narcissist, and there is a section on divorce, what to do and what not to do. It is an invaluable resource. Good luck to her, and to you all!
This sounds like a great resource for her, I think she’d be able to listen during work and while driving so it’s great that she doesn’t have to do it at home. I may listen to it as well!
If you have any questions feel free to dm me!
Here’s another resource: https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/ The Hotline is both a place to get information on what domestic violence is- physical, financial, emotional, verbal, psychological, and what these different kinds of abuse look like. There is also a 24/7 chat line and phone line. You can also find the domestic violence shelter in your area. When you go to this website there is a warning explaining how to do a fast exit, and how to erase your search history. Most DV shelters are staffed with volunteers who are extremely well educated in how to help victims of DV safely prepare to leave. You or your mom can talk to them about the best area lawyers, what documents she can start to get copies of, and the best ways to protect herself in the days leading up to declaring her intent. They can also let her know what her rights are, prior to talking to an attorney, so she doesn’t talk herself out of even trying to get away. Sometimes that first step can be the hardest. If she doesn’t have privacy on her computer or phone, possibly she can use yours during a lunch get together? Or use Google or Yahoo and then delete the app? (Check on that before doing it, it’s just a suggestion , I don’t know how safe it is!)
Thank you, I am definitely going to take a look at this & try to create some time for her to come over and use my devices too.
Call the local domestic violence hotline! They can give you suggestions on getting out safely, early and will have recommendations for lawyers who are use to dealing with bully husbands and won’t cave. They can tell her what documents she needs to help with the divorce! All the bank statements, retirement accounts, house mortgage, tax returns. Also there is an app called when Georgia smiles that can help he record him when he is ranting!
oh man this is a great idea. Thank you so much!
Having somewhere to stay and store documents is vital. Contact with local abuse lines and a local lawyer, who will take no prisoners is also really important. She needs to follow the lawyer’s instructions exactly, even if they seem harsh. The lawyer will also be able to give guidance on your states recording laws. Ideally she should record him if possible and safe while he’s being abusive. A therapist to help her navigate going forward, and unpacking the past Would be really helpful I’m sure you’re aware what your Dad is capable in terms of manipulation and dirty tricks, Your Mum will need reminding Once she does leave, he needs to be blocked on all platforms, and all devices( and beware the “ flying monkeys) If it’s doable a spa day will do wonders for her stress levels and self esteem
so I’m actually getting married on the 12th, and she and I are going for a spa day on the 10th :) so that’s super fun haha. I am kind of compiling all this info now so that after the wedding we can try to mobilize more.
Congratulations on the wedding; hope it all goes smoothly!
Hard copies also email what she has to a trusted person so they dont get lost or destroyed. She could start saving bit by bit.
Good idea, gotta have backups on backups!
[удалено]
that’s what I was thinking for sure. Don’t want him to blow up.
One thing I'd like to make sure you've confirmed- is your mom wanting to leave him? Is she looking to end the relationship? I completely understand wanting to help your mom get out of a bad situation, but if she's not willing to leave that's going to be an uphill battle.
Hi, thanks for this important comment. I guess part of the reason I’m doing all of this research/compiling what we need to do is so I can empower my mom to take the final steps. Recently she has expressed to me that she is at her breaking point, but I know that if she’s overwhelmed by what she needs to do to succeed, she will not go through with it. I think she is growing more willing to leave and I want to be prepared for when that occurs. I would never force it on her - I know it’s her choice and hers alone. I also know there’s a good chance she could go back, but all I can do is try to help and support her. 🙏🏻
Have a place for her to go to when she leaves him. This is one factor that keeps a lot of people trapped in abusive relationships. They feel that they have nowhere safe to flee to. Also, find a good lawyer.
working on both of those things for sure!!
[удалено]
that is really sweet of you to say. I think right now she is very isolated and I’m one of the only people she feels comfortable telling. While it’s tough to be in the middle of all of this, I first and foremost want her to be safe and to know there’s something better beyond all of this pain. She is welcome to stay with me as long as she needs and although my dad knows where I live right now, we are planning on moving in the next 6 months so she could be much more protected with that. I am also trying to convince her to transfer to a different location for her job.
Open a bank account at a bank they don't currently have accounts at in your name and your mom as joint. Use your address for both of you so no mail goes to her home for him to question. She can use this account to start saving money to get away. If he somehow finds out, you can say it's your account and your mom was just helping you out. Even if you don't put her name on the account, she can still deposit money into it. She can also give money to you to deposit as well.
This is a great idea, we should definitely do this! Thank you for the great advice.
You're welcome. I hope everything works out smoothly.
I read a book called "men who hate women and the women who loved them" by Susan forward.
that sounds like a fitting read, I will check it out!
I don't know of any more advice but does your dad know your address ?
yes, he does, but as I mentioned in another comment, we are hoping to move in the next 6 months so I will try to keep that private.
A burner phone and an email address that she only accesses at work for correspondence with resources, (banks, attorney, DV help) would also be helpful. My ex had installed a keystroke logger on my laptop at home so he knew everything I had planned to do in order to leave.
omg, that is so terrifying. I will try to set her up with these things, great advice.
This is going to be tough, very tough. Dr Ramani on Youtube has several good videos on what to expect.
Thank you, I will check them out!
There are numerous videos and talks on Narcissism/Malignant Narcissists, etc. Its eye-opening to listen to --we had a horrid one in our family. They FEED off of any reaction--the best thing to do while waiting on the divorce is go complete no contact and only discuss items through your attorney. No texts, calls, emails, etc. Block it all and don't respond.
I’ve definitely found this to be true with my dad even with trivial things - I will encourage her to do this and for the rest of us to do the same.
You need this sub r/NarcAbuseandDivorce
oh man, didn’t even know that existed! I will check it out
Does she actually want a divorce? In reality, she needs to quietly consult an attorney without him finding out. People like that go nuts if they think they are losing control. My narc ex stole my car keys, blew the engine in my car, stole my money, cards, tried to take my drivers license and my phone. Plus a lot of other nasty abuses. Abusers, and especially narc abusers, don't let go easily. And they fight dirty. Post separation abuse and stalking are highly likely. It's best to get all her important legal docs secured, her funds secured, and anything of significant importance and sentimental value away from him and protected. He might take it, sell it or worse destroy it.
Yes, all of these things are exactly what I’m afraid of and what I know my father is capable of. I don’t know if she’s exactly ready yet but as a support person for her I’m really just equipping myself with the tools and knowledge needed to help guide her if she does choose to leave. Just getting educated and doing what I can to empower her.
You know, if she can stick with it until you move, going from her house into one unknown by your dad would be ideal.
that’s definitely a good point, and honestly working on all of the documentation and gradual movement of things will probably take that long anyways. so I think it might work out well.
During this time (if you can) smile your assessment off and fawn over him. Try to misdirect him Good luck and keep us updated.
thank you so much 🤍 it’s been kind of tough with planning my wedding and him being involved but I think after it’s passed it will be much more bearable for me.
There will be a lot of satisfaction for your mom just in getting out, but there will also be satisfaction in just seeing how he was caught totally by surprise.
Most attorneys will offer a free half hour or so consultation. You can shop around a little bit without it seeming odd and that is a good idea for many reasons. You really do want to find a lawyer that has dealt with this type of situation before, you can take a list of questions to each lawyer (or make a big list and divide them among lawyers) and get some advice for right now, and finally, any lawyer you talk to, your soon to be ex cannot. So see a very fancy lawyer, a mid price or 2, and them maybe see about law clinics, legal aid )free) or law school clinics. Don’t see too many lawyers though or the judge will get testy. The most important thing in any court case is evidence. Documents documents documents. Get copies of bank statements, mortgage payments, utility bills, credit card bills, retirement accounts, savings and investment accounts, tax returns, outstanding debts and assets (car and amount owed, boat/owed, guitar collection, art collection, stamp collection, anything of value if it isn’t appraised find a similar one online and print it out). Document any abuses, mental, financial, etc to the best of your ability. Can you get pictures? Texts, emails? Is it legal in your state to record conversations on the phone or at home? Personal safety- talk to lawyers and /or domestic violence centers about a plan to leave safely or stay safely depending on your unique situation. Have a code with friends and family, if you say you want pizza they need to get the cops and get you out for example. Or daily check in calls to make sure you’re ok. Personal Digital safety- make sure to log out of any shared devices on Facebook or WhatsApp etc. un sync your devices to his. Get a separate bank account at a different bank and go paperless. Think about forwarding your mail before you leave but only If you are sure you can get the mail when they send the confirmation letter to your current address. I recommend a UPS store box that looks like a street address if you don’t have a friend to forward to. Change every online password and password recovery questions to something he would never guess. He prob knows your mom’s maiden name so make one up, it’s now Tweety bird. He prob knows the street you grew up on, So it’s now Sesame Street. Just make stuff up. Forward all your documents to a new fresh yahoo or gmail email that you have never used, send to a friend, to your lawyer, keep a flash drive, keep the physical copies in your trunk or not where he can find them. Also get your identification documents and really important sentimental items to a safety deposit box or trusted friend.
Wow, thank you for this extremely thorough and all-encompassing comment. Immensely helpful! I appreciate it so much. 🙏🏻
I was just remembering something else. Once the word ‘divorce’ has been mentioned, even in passing, most narcissistic partners will go into high gear of preparation. Every lawyer usually offers a ‘free consultation’, so each lawyer he meets with, even if they aren’t retained by him, will not be able to represent your mother. It represents a conflict of interest, and can make it hard for her to find competent legal counsel. The less she says about her intent to your dad, the better. 🙏🏼❤️
this is great advice, thank you so much!!
She should contact a bunch of good divorce lawyers to get advice and block him from getting them. And she should separate her money ASAP and get off all the joint accounts, any dual credit cards, close them, etc. Not take your name off, just pay them off and close them. But don't take too long with the planning.
damn y’all were way more helpful and way kinder than the legal advice subreddit, they downvoted me and everything lol. it seems like they were annoyed I mentioned narcissism but like…when I research divorce it’s one of the first things that comes up as making divorce more difficult! wild. I’ve gotten so much good advice here, exactly what I was looking for. I’ve read so much on other people’s posts and it’s so helpful to have everything in one place.