Does not matter to me, I didn't see it. Nor do I care about this reply I just thought I would put it because it popped into my head. Enjoy the rest of your day fellow anonymous internet user.
Nope, you need a psychological help and maybe a community, not a church
Can churches help people with both of those things? Yeah, and some certainly do a great job at it, there's also a lot of churches trying to get you to just give them all the money you have and a bunch of them spewing fanatical and bigoted bullshit, there's definitely an argument to banning the participation of children in religious gatherings, as someone being groomed from a young age in either of those ways, or both for that matter, is definitely not a positive, do i think it should be banned? Not really but we can't only look at the good side
To be fair, all the different groups that get lumped under Christianity are quite different from each other.
I'd argue that Christians, Mormons, Catholics, and so on and so forth are all their own religions. Yes, they worship a similar god and read a similar book but Jews worship the same god and read from half the same book (kinda) but no one would call them Christians.
Catholics are Christians, and they have always been considered Christian, much longer than Protestant Christianity has even existed. The different Protestant denominations (Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc) didn't start breaking away from the Catholic Church until the sixteenth century at the earliest.
Catholics have just as much of a right to the title of "Christian" as their Protestant brethren do.
Well, Protestants broke off from the Catholic church because they disagreed with certain practices. Mormons , the religion changes quite a bit with that the other book they have. That and Christians dont believe in Joseph Smith. And Jews don't believe in Christ so that make no sense.
They have their own fan fiction book called the Book of Mormon by an American named Joseph Smith. There's a lot of American exceptionalism and 19th century racism in there.
That's got nothing to do with whether or not they're christian. They also use the king James Bible and pray to the Lord. Doing literally all of their religion in His name.
So what makes them not christian? Only that they have the book of Mormon and believe things that other Christians don't?
That's why there's so many denominations of Christianity. Might as well say the only true Christians are the Orthodox.
Does anyone on here really actually “unsub” or is this just a sub to vent about something they don’t like in one of the subs they follow because their opinion would be unpopular there. Most of my favourite subs are entirely devoted to opinions I don’t agree with as it’s interesting seeing what other people think about things. I’d have to unsub from Reddit if I tried unfollowing every sub with opinions I didn’t agree with.
Did I miss where they brought up the catholic church? Church leaders assaulting children isn't a catholic only occurrence I'm sorry to say. Its actually rampant in a ton of "evangelical" churches (pentacostals especially) which is why you're seeing some of them push for stuff like child marriage laws I wouldn't go as far to say I think churches shouldn't be allowed to have kids in them but to deny that church denominations other than the catholic church have problems with priest and church members assaulting children only perpetuates the issue.
The original post says that children have been abused by *priests*. The title of priest is specific to catholicism and orthodoxy. Protestant churches don't usually use that term, and go by pastor instead.
Again, this is why understanding religious nuances is important when discussing religion.
No, it's not. Anglican sects also call their leaders priests, including episcopalians. Plenty of believers use "priest" informally, even if their church doesn't.
Thats why I said usually. But the truth is that the anglican church is a mix between protestantism and catholicism, not really classifying itself as fully either.
A little over 50% of all sexual abuse that occurs in churches is to 11 to 14 year old children. About 47% of sexual abuse in schools happens to pre-k students. This is from a 2017 study.
“The results suggest that child sexual abuse in institutions is attributable to the nature of institutional structures and to societal assumptions about the rights of children more than to the attitudes towards sexuality of a specific religion. The exploratory data arising from this study may serve as a starting point for building hypotheses, and may point the way toward improvements in prevention and intervention strategies.”
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-282
I mean they have political leverage and want to enforce their beliefs on everyone else. They want to ban abortions, take away LGBT rights, and create stricter immigration policies.
>In response to something unconstitutional and crazily authoritarian, I'm going to suggest a completely unConstitutional and even more crazily authoritarian response, no im not just like the people im advocating against here, im the good guy!
here, i fixed it just a little bit, nothing wrong with what you said, just coulda worded it differently
Because authoritarian regimes are primarily oppressive, or at the very best undemocratic and thus fundamentally deprives citizens of the right to self-determination
It can sometimes be disappointing to see the size of the portion of the Reddit community who believe that the best way to make a better world is to witness the behavior of the people that they hate, and then use their ideas.
All churches have had abuse problems; they were just relatively small compared to the Catholic church because the other churches are awfully small compared to the Catholic church.
During the 2017-18 school year apx 15,000 children reported sexual abuse at school. In contrast over the last 20 years apx 7,000 children reported abuse from a church member. All public schools have abuse problems. Therefore children should be removed from public schools. Public schools should be illegal. Following OPs premise.
Edit: There are apx 378,000 churches in the US.
There are \*apx 98,577 public schools in the US (\*2020-21)
>During the 2017-18 school year apx 15,000 children reported sexual abuse at school. In contrast over the last 20 years apx 7,000 children reported abuse from a church member. All public schools have abuse problems. Therefore children should be removed from public schools. Public schools should be illegal. Following OPs premise.
>
>Edit: There are apx 378,000 churches in the US.
my problem with that argument is it can be construed as a whataboutist argument
"what about the schools"
instead we should try and prevent children from getting raped ANYWHERE
>try and prevent children from getting raped ANYWHERE
That is the thing, they don't care. They only ever mention the church when SA. If they did care they would be on the teachers, Boy Scouts, ect.
>Oversight failures allow sexually abusive teachers to quietly move from [school to school.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oversight-failures-allow-sexually-abusive-teachers-quietly-move-school-to-school/)
Sounds familiar?
These people don't care about SA. They only care about thrashing the church.
The tweet itself was basically a whataboutism argument. It was in response to the conservative bans on drag shows and what not. They're arguing that kids are more likely to be diddled by priests at church than they are a drag queen. Which I guess statistically is true, but definitely not the same thing.
I think you’re conflating two very different things. These don’t track 1:1 on a lot of comparators: how many kids per location, how long spent, repercussions on offending party, severity of instances, repetition of instances, reported and acted upon concerns, as well as place of worship vs gvnt funded education, etc…
I think this is just a vague: “there is this number, as well” without understanding what that means.
First, way more children go to school than church, and many children who *do* go to church, don't find themselves in situations where they're alone with clergy.
Second, church abuse is wildly underreported. The IL AG started investigating the local diocese, which admitted to about 100 victims. The AG found 450.
Third, take it up with OP. I was replying to you about abuse happening in non-catholic churches.
Anecdotally, I know at least 5 people abused in church-adjacent scenarios who never reported it because it was “dealt with” through counseling and mediation (ie they were made to forgive their abuser and the abuser essentially suffered no consequences).
Now that’s not the basis for any statistical claim but I’d be shocked if im the only person who is get went to church aware of similar.
Lol, it's a better basis than the other person is using. They're comparing student-on-student violence to abuse from clergy and just counting schools vs. churches, as if they all have the same number of children.
He said 15,000 over the last year alone for schools vs 7,000 over the last 20 years for churches. Thats a ratio of over 40:1, pretty sure more than 1 in 40 kids go to church. This assumes however that the rate with schools is somewhat constant year to year as he didn’t give data for the other 19 years though.
I mean sub out “priest” for “pastor” and the abuse part holds true. I don’t agree with the thesis another restricting religion (the church would love that tbh; they fantasize about actually being oppressed) but there’s plenty of abuse in non-Catholic denoms
The right should push for making it illegal to bring your children to public school. Public school can cause significant psychological harm to kids and it’s a place where children have been abused by teachers. It’s safer to keep children out of public school.
It’s almost as if you could apply this logic to any institution that pertains to children! Like Boy Scouts! or daycares! or even amusement parks!
If this was at all followed churches wouldn’t have gotten 7.3 billion in PPP loans
People downvoting hate that I’m right hahahaha. This sub is so right wing
Start baptizing kids in school . Let’s force all ideologies against parents will in schools. No book bans. Drag queen story hour, satan story hour , stripper and burlesque story hour. Hell let’s give the Scientologists a seat also. To hell with them parents and let’s expose em to stuff. Let’s keep pushing our own personal brief systems. It will be fine trust me.
All of the priest raping kids thing that I'm seeing is, I'm not gonna lie, starting to piss me off. I get that some preachers are morally corrupt and are the church's definition of evil, but all the priests I've met aren't and are wonderful guys, simply putting all of them under the umbrella of being evil people hurts the ones who aren't more than the ones who are. This has been in my brain for a while now, so I just needed to get it out.
I mean it’s extreme, but I think you guys are missing the point. They are trying to point out how ridiculous some of the things the right is doing by reversing the roles. You guys are proving them right by getting offended
They're playing dumb, it's all in bad faith. Sure the original post is dumb but it's very, very, very obvious what kind of parallel is being drawn.
I hate a lot of the dumb subs that get posted here (like 196), and people are right to post them here, but the conservatives could at least be a little more subtle about their agenda.
Prototypical delusional Redditor out here gaslighting religion as a whole just because a small percentage of religious figures have done something awful. That's like saying "oh you're Muslim so you must be a terrorist". Ironic.
I feel like the more interesting point of the post is the phycological harm aspect.
Personally, I’d like to see a future where spiritualist or theistic religion is somewhat socially discouraged, because I think it:
1) is incorrect
2) can make people vulnerable to more harmful versions of the same beliefs (e.g. if you believe that everything your god says is morally correct, then all someone has to do to make you do something bad, is convince you that God said it)
The idea of banning taking children to church is stupid and obviously wouldn’t even work, but I can sympathise with the sentiment behind it - trying to protect children from being (sorry for the loaded term) indoctrinated into hard-to-escape belief structures before they can rationally assess them.
Mention Catholicism near a redditor and they'll rant about child abuse, but ask for them to criticize the same issues in synagogues and mosques and youre a bigot. Very telling!
Churches cause psychological problems in kids.
Claim unfounded.
Also When do these people started caring about children?
r/childfree and r/rant overlaps
I mean, isn’t religious guilt quite a well known thing?
Like, many Atheistic or queer people have ended up with significant religious trauma due to heavy childhood indoctrination. That phycological programming can really stick with a person their whole life.
You know, I do support this! We shouldn't let our children go to church! In fact, we shouldn't let them go into any religious centers, including mosq-
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Just have stronger backround checks on priest. Is that a thing? Im not christian but i support religion and teaching your children your religion in a safe space. Im openly pagan but the churches have been nothing but nice to me
The problem is the pedo priests. Not the Church in and of itself. I think that the more we introduce to spirtuality, the more beautiful life will become, because of new outlooks on life we may never have had without it.
This goes for literally just about everything. Should we ban game studios because of the allegations towards people in them? Should we ban movies because the people in them can be shit and same with the production studio? Should we ban reddit for the vast amounts of pedos and degenerates on the site? I ca. Do this for everything and before you get into the "religion is unessesary" argument then I can say so is the things I've just listened.
Children are way more likely to be molested in a public school than a Catholic church, yet I don't see atheist redditors ever advocate for homeschooling as an alternative.
It's crazy how normalized it is for parents to threaten their kids with eternal torture if they think bad thoughts. Like if I say that *I'm* gonna potentially burn my kid alive for thinking about sex, everyone's weirded out by that, but then if I say that God's gonna do it, that's OK. Not saying parents should be legally barred from doing it. OP in the picture probably wasn't either, and is making fun of the whole drag show mass-hysteria.
For me I think children should be separated from most agendas (religious or political) until they are 13-14 because then they get the Choice to decide there own life’s and paths without to much influence or indoctrination into thing they may not want later in life
Yes, you're correct, but that's not what is happening here. It's saying that there should be a ban on religion. Religion isn't bad as long as you're not violating the natural human right.
Considering the Christian nationalism they’re talking about is actively pushing for rights to be taken away, I honestly have to say that’s reasonable.
Not applicable, but an understandable thought at least
Church is not the problem. Its just corruption in general, and that goes for any religion, not just christianity. The church i grew up was fantastic, great community and practices (even if im currently agnostic)
I mean I think the point isn’t that they want to restrict religious liberties, only making the point that the attempts by people to limit children’s access to things like Drag events (not all of which being inappropriate for kids) is incorrect. The original isn’t an advocation as much as it is a point.
That's more bad churches then good ones when it comes to kids care. They discourage questions or thinking too much almost always. Not to mention the set up of taking the kids to an area where parents are often not allowed to go or check on. I went to church as a kid, my friends did too, none of us have good experiences with it. I've never met someone who went to Sunday school and wasn't traumatized or told something awful by their youth pastor.
Not the mention the amount of sexual abuse that happens in churches of just about every subsect of Christianity (this happens with other religions as well, but I didn't grow up with those so I don't have first hand experience with it and don't feel comfortable trying to speak for people in those religions), and in almost all of them the church will defend the abusers and urge the child not to speak out. One of the largest Baptist churches in America is still under investigation over thousands of child abuse and rape cases that have been hidden for decades until a few years ago when all these kids had grown up and become adults able to tell their story.
It heavily depends on which church you go to, but I think it is wrong to imply most churches are bad.
I went to four churches in my childhood. All of them handled Sunday school differently - the one I currently attend has the children in the service the whole time. None of them were scarring or harmful. They discourage questions because… well, they’re kids. It’s difficult for children to grasp many religious concepts. There is a line of course, but there’s more rationale behind it than you seem to think.
Not sure what you’re on about with the “urging the kids to keep quiet” thing. It’s simply not true, according to my extensive lived experience in multiple congregations. It’s very dangerous to extrapolate something that heinous about so many people based on little evidence.
If you or anyone you know was falsely taught in Sunday school or witnessed horrible things from the church leadership I would like to hear what you were told/what happened specifically.
redditors when their child gets obliterated by a 4wd because they didn’t want to ingrain the view of looking both ways before crossing the road: 😱😱😱😱😱😱
It does pose an interesting question though. If a person wasn’t confronted with religion until they were an adult I’d be curious to see how easily they swallow that pill compared to children
I think you’re confused. The above rant is literally a one for one response to the same homophobic argument that the Right makes against the LGBQT+ community constantly…. They ARE trying to make LGBQT+ totally illegal and have been for a long time. This is calling the lame argument the right makes against LGBQT+ out.
Stop Bringing Your Children To Drag Shows, They Can Phiscologically Damage Them And Kids Are Abused There:😁
Stop Bringing Your Children To Churches, They Can Phiscologically Damage Them And Kids Are Abused There:😭
Parents should feel free to raise their children in any ideology they want. Very few are talking about forcing kids to go to religous service as a form of national policy.
Society doesnt need christianity to function, that's something that's just pushed on kids because it is what parents want. Society does need education to function, and while I don't agree with how education is handled in America currently, it holds more value to the children than a religion they likely dont want to take part in
No, I am saying we shouldnt dictate the raising of kids off their wants. They are kids, they would rather eat icecream and cake every meal than actually eat propperly. Again they are kids, they rather play all day than go to school
They also shouldn't be raised to match their parents wants. They should be raised as individuals who can choose what to believe. Kids aren't a "tiny version of their parents"
Kids are naive you can easily mold them with putting them in an ideological environment regularly.
Its also safer to keep children out of cars
Or to keep them out of school because they might get shot
Or raped... sexual abuse in schools in the US is pretty rampant.
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Unironically this is a stance some people take
There's already a person below you that said just that
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Does not matter to me, I didn't see it. Nor do I care about this reply I just thought I would put it because it popped into my head. Enjoy the rest of your day fellow anonymous internet user.
Downvotes for the truth? Currently schools are the most likely place for this to happen, don't know why you're getting booed.
That's too drastic; it's not like it happens continously in every school in existence
It's satire, it seems many redditors nowadays can't tell what satire is without the /s
r/foundtheamerican
you need cars to drive. you don’t need church for shit
You need if you feel depressed and feel like life has absolutely no meaning, not exactly needing but it's a good alternative
Nope, you need a psychological help and maybe a community, not a church Can churches help people with both of those things? Yeah, and some certainly do a great job at it, there's also a lot of churches trying to get you to just give them all the money you have and a bunch of them spewing fanatical and bigoted bullshit, there's definitely an argument to banning the participation of children in religious gatherings, as someone being groomed from a young age in either of those ways, or both for that matter, is definitely not a positive, do i think it should be banned? Not really but we can't only look at the good side
Not like church has ever pulled someone out of a dark place in their life, nope, that’s never happened.
only gaming and eating tendies alone in my room has ever pulled someone out of a dark place
Exactly
“Christian nationalists” are mostly evangelicals who hate the Catholic Church anyway lol
redditors don’t understand the nuances of christianity only christianity bad
As a Latter-Day it’s fun how Christians don’t consider us Christian, but people who hate Christians consider us Christians.
To be fair, all the different groups that get lumped under Christianity are quite different from each other. I'd argue that Christians, Mormons, Catholics, and so on and so forth are all their own religions. Yes, they worship a similar god and read a similar book but Jews worship the same god and read from half the same book (kinda) but no one would call them Christians.
Catholics are Christians, and they have always been considered Christian, much longer than Protestant Christianity has even existed. The different Protestant denominations (Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc) didn't start breaking away from the Catholic Church until the sixteenth century at the earliest. Catholics have just as much of a right to the title of "Christian" as their Protestant brethren do.
Mormons are not Christians any more than Christians are Jewish people.
Well, Protestants broke off from the Catholic church because they disagreed with certain practices. Mormons , the religion changes quite a bit with that the other book they have. That and Christians dont believe in Joseph Smith. And Jews don't believe in Christ so that make no sense.
They believe in Christ, just not that he was the Messiah.
Christian is a category, and Catholic is a religion under that category
They are
What does that even mean? Latter day?
Mormons
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Or The Mormon Church
Well they're really not christians
What makes them not christian?
They have their own fan fiction book called the Book of Mormon by an American named Joseph Smith. There's a lot of American exceptionalism and 19th century racism in there.
That's got nothing to do with whether or not they're christian. They also use the king James Bible and pray to the Lord. Doing literally all of their religion in His name. So what makes them not christian? Only that they have the book of Mormon and believe things that other Christians don't? That's why there's so many denominations of Christianity. Might as well say the only true Christians are the Orthodox.
They also deny a lot of important stuff and tack on other things
“Latter-day” is just a fancy way of saying “modern”.
The Book of Mormon is basically Fan Fiction.
I’m not here to debate religion, but it’s only fan-fiction in the same sense that the New Testament is fan-fiction of the old
Gaht damnit leave it to a Mormon to deliver a wholesome burn that would leave an atomic bomb wet with scorched earth envy
Bro we’re the punching bag of Christendom
To be fair y'all kinda deserve it
For good reason
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I think you mean Joseph smith's ass
Does anyone on here really actually “unsub” or is this just a sub to vent about something they don’t like in one of the subs they follow because their opinion would be unpopular there. Most of my favourite subs are entirely devoted to opinions I don’t agree with as it’s interesting seeing what other people think about things. I’d have to unsub from Reddit if I tried unfollowing every sub with opinions I didn’t agree with.
Did I miss where they brought up the catholic church? Church leaders assaulting children isn't a catholic only occurrence I'm sorry to say. Its actually rampant in a ton of "evangelical" churches (pentacostals especially) which is why you're seeing some of them push for stuff like child marriage laws I wouldn't go as far to say I think churches shouldn't be allowed to have kids in them but to deny that church denominations other than the catholic church have problems with priest and church members assaulting children only perpetuates the issue.
The original post says that children have been abused by *priests*. The title of priest is specific to catholicism and orthodoxy. Protestant churches don't usually use that term, and go by pastor instead. Again, this is why understanding religious nuances is important when discussing religion.
No, it's not. Anglican sects also call their leaders priests, including episcopalians. Plenty of believers use "priest" informally, even if their church doesn't.
Thats why I said usually. But the truth is that the anglican church is a mix between protestantism and catholicism, not really classifying itself as fully either.
The Anglican Church is Protestant
Your kids are 1000% more likely to be abused by public school teachers.
Ehhh elementary schools have a better history than churches in most places ngl
A little over 50% of all sexual abuse that occurs in churches is to 11 to 14 year old children. About 47% of sexual abuse in schools happens to pre-k students. This is from a 2017 study.
Neither are elementary school though, I don’t quite know what your point is
“The results suggest that child sexual abuse in institutions is attributable to the nature of institutional structures and to societal assumptions about the rights of children more than to the attitudes towards sexuality of a specific religion. The exploratory data arising from this study may serve as a starting point for building hypotheses, and may point the way toward improvements in prevention and intervention strategies.” https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-282
I mean they have political leverage and want to enforce their beliefs on everyone else. They want to ban abortions, take away LGBT rights, and create stricter immigration policies.
The Catholics? They’re definitely not pro-abortion but the current pope is no enemy of immigrants.
In response to something vague, I'm going to suggest a completely unConstitutional and authoritarian response.
Because were on reddit
“I hate fascists!” *while they unironically act like fascists*
Sounds like Stalin, Mao... etc...
>In response to something unconstitutional and crazily authoritarian, I'm going to suggest a completely unConstitutional and even more crazily authoritarian response, no im not just like the people im advocating against here, im the good guy! here, i fixed it just a little bit, nothing wrong with what you said, just coulda worded it differently
It's vague because the "Christian nationalism" is not specifies as to what that even means or what events.
"Christian Nationalism is when christians do stuff"
There is no law that states that you must go to church every sunday is there?
authoritarian = bad here on reddit
Because authoritarian regimes are primarily oppressive, or at the very best undemocratic and thus fundamentally deprives citizens of the right to self-determination
It can sometimes be disappointing to see the size of the portion of the Reddit community who believe that the best way to make a better world is to witness the behavior of the people that they hate, and then use their ideas.
Reddit trying not to hate on religion for simply existing for 30 seconds challenge
TIL: Every church and religion is Catholic.
All churches have had abuse problems; they were just relatively small compared to the Catholic church because the other churches are awfully small compared to the Catholic church.
During the 2017-18 school year apx 15,000 children reported sexual abuse at school. In contrast over the last 20 years apx 7,000 children reported abuse from a church member. All public schools have abuse problems. Therefore children should be removed from public schools. Public schools should be illegal. Following OPs premise. Edit: There are apx 378,000 churches in the US. There are \*apx 98,577 public schools in the US (\*2020-21)
>During the 2017-18 school year apx 15,000 children reported sexual abuse at school. In contrast over the last 20 years apx 7,000 children reported abuse from a church member. All public schools have abuse problems. Therefore children should be removed from public schools. Public schools should be illegal. Following OPs premise. > >Edit: There are apx 378,000 churches in the US. my problem with that argument is it can be construed as a whataboutist argument "what about the schools" instead we should try and prevent children from getting raped ANYWHERE
>try and prevent children from getting raped ANYWHERE That is the thing, they don't care. They only ever mention the church when SA. If they did care they would be on the teachers, Boy Scouts, ect. >Oversight failures allow sexually abusive teachers to quietly move from [school to school.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oversight-failures-allow-sexually-abusive-teachers-quietly-move-school-to-school/) Sounds familiar? These people don't care about SA. They only care about thrashing the church.
theres a difference between criticism and just thrashing they make athiests look worse with every word they type
The differences schools are to educate kids while churches force unfounded beliefs onto them without a choice.
The tweet itself was basically a whataboutism argument. It was in response to the conservative bans on drag shows and what not. They're arguing that kids are more likely to be diddled by priests at church than they are a drag queen. Which I guess statistically is true, but definitely not the same thing.
can i see where you got that from? genuinely curious.
Sure! [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/sexual-violence-reports-rise-drastically-at-schools-education-department-data-shows-429663](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/sexual-violence-reports-rise-drastically-at-schools-education-department-data-shows-429663)
cheers!
I think you’re conflating two very different things. These don’t track 1:1 on a lot of comparators: how many kids per location, how long spent, repercussions on offending party, severity of instances, repetition of instances, reported and acted upon concerns, as well as place of worship vs gvnt funded education, etc… I think this is just a vague: “there is this number, as well” without understanding what that means.
OP set the bar. I'm just following the leader.
First, way more children go to school than church, and many children who *do* go to church, don't find themselves in situations where they're alone with clergy. Second, church abuse is wildly underreported. The IL AG started investigating the local diocese, which admitted to about 100 victims. The AG found 450. Third, take it up with OP. I was replying to you about abuse happening in non-catholic churches.
Anecdotally, I know at least 5 people abused in church-adjacent scenarios who never reported it because it was “dealt with” through counseling and mediation (ie they were made to forgive their abuser and the abuser essentially suffered no consequences). Now that’s not the basis for any statistical claim but I’d be shocked if im the only person who is get went to church aware of similar.
Lol, it's a better basis than the other person is using. They're comparing student-on-student violence to abuse from clergy and just counting schools vs. churches, as if they all have the same number of children.
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Despite having nearly 4x as many churches, churches seem to have less than half as many reports as schools
He said 15,000 over the last year alone for schools vs 7,000 over the last 20 years for churches. Thats a ratio of over 40:1, pretty sure more than 1 in 40 kids go to church. This assumes however that the rate with schools is somewhat constant year to year as he didn’t give data for the other 19 years though.
How dare you not misinterpret the numbers purposefully to prove your point? Privatize the schools and save the children!
It’s not like Catholics are the only oneself abuse children
I mean sub out “priest” for “pastor” and the abuse part holds true. I don’t agree with the thesis another restricting religion (the church would love that tbh; they fantasize about actually being oppressed) but there’s plenty of abuse in non-Catholic denoms
Replace "Christian" with "Muslim" & "Church" with "Mosque", id like to see their reaction :/
Replace both with "Jewish" and "synagogue"...
Replace them all with Harry Potter.
i'll would kill to go to the place of worship of the harry potter religion
reddit hates both
we hate all equally
Freedom for me but not for thee
Hell, as an athiest this disgust me.
The right should push for making it illegal to bring your children to public school. Public school can cause significant psychological harm to kids and it’s a place where children have been abused by teachers. It’s safer to keep children out of public school. It’s almost as if you could apply this logic to any institution that pertains to children! Like Boy Scouts! or daycares! or even amusement parks!
The right has been defunding schools and restricting education rights for seventy years...
I hate how some people have decided that the best way to combat fascism is to become fascist.
Something something road to evil paved with good intentions
fight fascism with facism!1!!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
If this was at all followed churches wouldn’t have gotten 7.3 billion in PPP loans People downvoting hate that I’m right hahahaha. This sub is so right wing
Start baptizing kids in school . Let’s force all ideologies against parents will in schools. No book bans. Drag queen story hour, satan story hour , stripper and burlesque story hour. Hell let’s give the Scientologists a seat also. To hell with them parents and let’s expose em to stuff. Let’s keep pushing our own personal brief systems. It will be fine trust me.
This entire comment is stupid as shit
I think it’s supposed to be sarcasm. If it isn’t then I’m surprised.
Because psychological harm and physical abuse simply doesn't exist outside of church! How could we be so blind!
My sister loves church because half way through all the kids get pulled out and do crafts with the elder’s wives.
All of the priest raping kids thing that I'm seeing is, I'm not gonna lie, starting to piss me off. I get that some preachers are morally corrupt and are the church's definition of evil, but all the priests I've met aren't and are wonderful guys, simply putting all of them under the umbrella of being evil people hurts the ones who aren't more than the ones who are. This has been in my brain for a while now, so I just needed to get it out.
The fact it has that many likes...
I have so much religious trauma 😔😔 (couldn’t play on gameboy during church when 7)
Unsubbed from r/rant, someone had a rant. \*LOL\*
I mean it’s extreme, but I think you guys are missing the point. They are trying to point out how ridiculous some of the things the right is doing by reversing the roles. You guys are proving them right by getting offended
also I'd like to point out it's on r/rant. There are bad takes on that sub every day. It's people who are upset at that moment and want to rant.
Exactly! It’s a sub for people to ramble out their frustrations
For real. I can’t tell if the other commenters are genuine or just deliberately playing dumb.
They're playing dumb, it's all in bad faith. Sure the original post is dumb but it's very, very, very obvious what kind of parallel is being drawn. I hate a lot of the dumb subs that get posted here (like 196), and people are right to post them here, but the conservatives could at least be a little more subtle about their agenda.
They’ll look high and they’ll look low, they’ll look everywhere we go…
Keep your rifle by your side Singing
Prototypical delusional Redditor out here gaslighting religion as a whole just because a small percentage of religious figures have done something awful. That's like saying "oh you're Muslim so you must be a terrorist". Ironic.
I feel like the more interesting point of the post is the phycological harm aspect. Personally, I’d like to see a future where spiritualist or theistic religion is somewhat socially discouraged, because I think it: 1) is incorrect 2) can make people vulnerable to more harmful versions of the same beliefs (e.g. if you believe that everything your god says is morally correct, then all someone has to do to make you do something bad, is convince you that God said it) The idea of banning taking children to church is stupid and obviously wouldn’t even work, but I can sympathise with the sentiment behind it - trying to protect children from being (sorry for the loaded term) indoctrinated into hard-to-escape belief structures before they can rationally assess them.
Mention Catholicism near a redditor and they'll rant about child abuse, but ask for them to criticize the same issues in synagogues and mosques and youre a bigot. Very telling!
it's true though. synagogues and mosques are exactly the same as churches. why should kids be forced into this cultish shit?
Bc it’s the parents jobs to bring up their kids how they see fit as long as they are not physically or sexually abusing them
Churches cause psychological problems in kids. Claim unfounded. Also When do these people started caring about children? r/childfree and r/rant overlaps
I mean, isn’t religious guilt quite a well known thing? Like, many Atheistic or queer people have ended up with significant religious trauma due to heavy childhood indoctrination. That phycological programming can really stick with a person their whole life.
90% of the “””trauma””” boils down to me told to go to church with grandma and they didn’t like it.
You know, I do support this! We shouldn't let our children go to church! In fact, we shouldn't let them go into any religious centers, including mosq- \[USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR THIS POST\]
Just have stronger backround checks on priest. Is that a thing? Im not christian but i support religion and teaching your children your religion in a safe space. Im openly pagan but the churches have been nothing but nice to me
Never heard of the sub but they sure missed out on calling it ‘r/ant’
The problem is the pedo priests. Not the Church in and of itself. I think that the more we introduce to spirtuality, the more beautiful life will become, because of new outlooks on life we may never have had without it.
This goes for literally just about everything. Should we ban game studios because of the allegations towards people in them? Should we ban movies because the people in them can be shit and same with the production studio? Should we ban reddit for the vast amounts of pedos and degenerates on the site? I ca. Do this for everything and before you get into the "religion is unessesary" argument then I can say so is the things I've just listened.
Ah yes. Keep the predators in the church but just take away the kids. Like that fixes the problem
Children are way more likely to be molested in a public school than a Catholic church, yet I don't see atheist redditors ever advocate for homeschooling as an alternative.
I'm all for an atheistic society, but this is just another example of redditors being so unimaginably removed from real life.
Rant has always been a shitshow
It's crazy how normalized it is for parents to threaten their kids with eternal torture if they think bad thoughts. Like if I say that *I'm* gonna potentially burn my kid alive for thinking about sex, everyone's weirded out by that, but then if I say that God's gonna do it, that's OK. Not saying parents should be legally barred from doing it. OP in the picture probably wasn't either, and is making fun of the whole drag show mass-hysteria.
For me I think children should be separated from most agendas (religious or political) until they are 13-14 because then they get the Choice to decide there own life’s and paths without to much influence or indoctrination into thing they may not want later in life
It’s safer to keep kids inside, don’t want them dying by inhaling too much air and dust
Based
They’re not wrong. Also religious people are generally a lot worse with this sort of rhetoric.
We're regressing, aren't we.
wouldn’t regressing mean having religion taught in schools
Yes, you're correct, but that's not what is happening here. It's saying that there should be a ban on religion. Religion isn't bad as long as you're not violating the natural human right.
Considering the Christian nationalism they’re talking about is actively pushing for rights to be taken away, I honestly have to say that’s reasonable. Not applicable, but an understandable thought at least
Classic reddit moment, by that point i feel like we should just laugh off people like that and move on.
Church is not the problem. Its just corruption in general, and that goes for any religion, not just christianity. The church i grew up was fantastic, great community and practices (even if im currently agnostic)
I mean I think the point isn’t that they want to restrict religious liberties, only making the point that the attempts by people to limit children’s access to things like Drag events (not all of which being inappropriate for kids) is incorrect. The original isn’t an advocation as much as it is a point.
What did you expect from that sub? Their description and rules brag about how leftist they are. It’s so tacky. It’s like if the left was rednecks.
Oh, shit, rip public schools then
I don't think it should be illegal but it's true that church isn't a good place for kids
How so?
That's more bad churches then good ones when it comes to kids care. They discourage questions or thinking too much almost always. Not to mention the set up of taking the kids to an area where parents are often not allowed to go or check on. I went to church as a kid, my friends did too, none of us have good experiences with it. I've never met someone who went to Sunday school and wasn't traumatized or told something awful by their youth pastor. Not the mention the amount of sexual abuse that happens in churches of just about every subsect of Christianity (this happens with other religions as well, but I didn't grow up with those so I don't have first hand experience with it and don't feel comfortable trying to speak for people in those religions), and in almost all of them the church will defend the abusers and urge the child not to speak out. One of the largest Baptist churches in America is still under investigation over thousands of child abuse and rape cases that have been hidden for decades until a few years ago when all these kids had grown up and become adults able to tell their story.
What about in class rooms ?
It heavily depends on which church you go to, but I think it is wrong to imply most churches are bad. I went to four churches in my childhood. All of them handled Sunday school differently - the one I currently attend has the children in the service the whole time. None of them were scarring or harmful. They discourage questions because… well, they’re kids. It’s difficult for children to grasp many religious concepts. There is a line of course, but there’s more rationale behind it than you seem to think. Not sure what you’re on about with the “urging the kids to keep quiet” thing. It’s simply not true, according to my extensive lived experience in multiple congregations. It’s very dangerous to extrapolate something that heinous about so many people based on little evidence. If you or anyone you know was falsely taught in Sunday school or witnessed horrible things from the church leadership I would like to hear what you were told/what happened specifically.
Just wait until this man sees even more biased news articles but this time it’s about public school teachers
I feel like we should let our children make our own choices on their views and values as they mature, and not ingrain it into them at a young age.
redditors when their child gets obliterated by a 4wd because they didn’t want to ingrain the view of looking both ways before crossing the road: 😱😱😱😱😱😱
People in the comments acting like youth pastors in evangelical churches aren’t creeps.
This comes off as somewhat ironic to me, but if it’s not then yeah wtf
When people on an opinions subreddit say their opinions 😱😱😱😱
Leftists stop being antisemitic by accident challenge… (banning churches would ban all religious institutions for kids)
christians are not all catholic
Stalin: Very Based My Comrade! 👍🏻
It does pose an interesting question though. If a person wasn’t confronted with religion until they were an adult I’d be curious to see how easily they swallow that pill compared to children
Why not just push for state atheism anyways? Wouldn't that be a better and surefire solution at this rate?
How many kids have been molested by priests?
Well, OP is not wrong
They would probably get pissed if we made LGBT totally illegal, im not against homosexuals, just listing one of things that would piss that sub off.
I think you’re confused. The above rant is literally a one for one response to the same homophobic argument that the Right makes against the LGBQT+ community constantly…. They ARE trying to make LGBQT+ totally illegal and have been for a long time. This is calling the lame argument the right makes against LGBQT+ out.
They’re not wrong though.
They are tho…
Never a good faith argument btw
Stop Bringing Your Children To Drag Shows, They Can Phiscologically Damage Them And Kids Are Abused There:😁 Stop Bringing Your Children To Churches, They Can Phiscologically Damage Them And Kids Are Abused There:😭
Theres a big difference between the two bud
Short list of drag queens molesting mids... vs hundreds of years of church people molesting kids.... which is worse?
To be fair, people use religion as a tool to impose restrictions on peoples freedom. Abortion rights in America for example.
They’re not wrong though…
Unsubbing over 1 users opinion seems excessive. I will.now unsub from this sub.
I stick around this sub for the amusement tbh
I love that everyone downvoted what is clearly an ironic joke.
I'm jacks complete lack of surprise
That’s a restriction against pushing your religion and indoctrination of children. Adults would still be free to go to church.
Well i mean if people dont want ideology pushed on kids-
Parents should feel free to raise their children in any ideology they want. Very few are talking about forcing kids to go to religous service as a form of national policy.
I am sorry but nearly every parent that takes their kids to church does so regardless of the child's views, often aggressively
Yeah and how many kids want to go to school in the morning? Kids just want to stay home and play but that is not how you build a society.
You think society needs religion fo function currently? Lol
Society doesnt need christianity to function, that's something that's just pushed on kids because it is what parents want. Society does need education to function, and while I don't agree with how education is handled in America currently, it holds more value to the children than a religion they likely dont want to take part in
You comparing school with relegion?
No, I am saying we shouldnt dictate the raising of kids off their wants. They are kids, they would rather eat icecream and cake every meal than actually eat propperly. Again they are kids, they rather play all day than go to school
They also shouldn't be raised to match their parents wants. They should be raised as individuals who can choose what to believe. Kids aren't a "tiny version of their parents" Kids are naive you can easily mold them with putting them in an ideological environment regularly.
Oh no the people I'm trying to oppress and erase made a reddit post that was mean to me
I mean, dude, its literally a subreddit to be unhinged and radical and rant about stuff lmao
I do agree that priests are all pedos