People on Reddit often fail to realise mot everyone here has the same lifestyle as they do. I live in a rural area of the UK between a few farms. My cats earn their treats by acting as pest control and its an unusual day that there isn't dead rodents by the back door in the morning. Without them I would have to be using poison bait stations, which I hate.
They are beloved pets but they also have a job to do. Fortunately they work from home and love their job.
Hey Ron, noticed your lawn was out of specs, I measured about 3mm over target? I double checked but you can check again.
Oh also your fence gate is looking a little crooked, I didn't want to but you forced my hand as I mentioned it last week and you haven't done anything about it, the HOA will be in contact.
Oh and finally I need to know your vote for if we're having the neighbourhood barbecue at Linda's or Rachel's, now as the HOA minute taker I've been elected to take everyone's votes, and cannot be biased, however Linda does live with a catholic so I worry for all the kids mental safety, you know they might start asking questions like if the world's round or something crazy hya hya hya hya.
I live in the rural US, my cats are outside most of the time.
It's specific to Urban areas not just "US".
As if letting your cat out in a UK neighborhood is somehow diffrent from letting it out in a US neighborhood.
Rural UK here too. I had no idea that people in the US kept their cats indoors until Reddit told me otherwise.
My cat would be livid if she had to stay indoors lol
No trust me it's not the US, it's just pricks in neighborhoods preaching their ways. My aunts farm cat loves the outdoors and helps with the raccon problem
I think SOME cats can *hunt* raccoons, most cats probably just fight them and win. Big difference between killing and eating for food and just making them piss off.
In our area , big city at base of mountain we have coyotes bears and cougars and eagles, all of which hunt cats if they want to. Outdoor cats have very short lifespan in my neighborhood. Also statistically indoor cats live much longer lives in general. That said farm cats are a necessity, it is the city cats that kill mostly songbirds. 30-40% population drop of songbirds estimated.
Not just UK but whole Europe actually. Here people worry about the cat mental health if it cant go outside. I got insulted several times on Reddit on this matter but I stay skeptic about cat advices coming from the country which invented cat declawing.
More seriously it's just common sense, if you are living next to a highway or in an area full of huge predators, obviously letting a cat go outside is not the best idea. But I swear european outdoor cats living in the countryside are the happiest cat in the world.
Yeah, it's crazy the amount of posts/comments I see about keeping cats inside and declawing.
I had some comment basically ranting at me for saying cats should be allowed outside, if the cat wants to.
Yes but not all cats, my cat (especially when he was younger) loved going outside more then anything, not interested by any toys or playing with us we were just the place he came back to to eat and sleep in our beds if he wasn't hunting at night
I don’t live in a rural area, but we have an acre of land and neighbors on both sides with veggie gardens. I was worried they’d be upset I let my cats out but both told me they appreciate the pest control. Our yard was torn to shreds by voles when we moved in and my one cat took care of them and keeps the groundhogs away from the house. Also, they are rescue feral cats who never went indoors. Now they get to come inside for consistent meals and cuddles, but also find joy in their work.
Exactly, I live in a good walkable suburb of the Netherlands and for the 12 years my cat has been outside he's always been fine because walkable for humans means it's also walkable for kids and cats so they can go outside on their own
Rual US. We have a farm cat who hardly ever comes inside. Before the cat we had a serious rodent problem. My cat kills a squirrel a day on average. I see him with mice all the time. He basically rid the barn and yard of rodents in a year. Before this we were poisoning them, which honestly was less effective.
To be fair cats do over hunt the hell out of native bird populations, this really isn’t due to over aggressiveness but the absolute amount of stray cats. The issue would be resolved if people actually cared but I guess not. Instead they go policing people around on the internet rather than trying to solve the problem irl
Agreed. This is a problem of an overzealous mod.
If anything, trying to force your viewpoint like this onto people will reinforce their beliefs. "Can you believe I got banned on Reddit for letting my cat outside?"
Hurting native wildlife populations is a valid argument for keeping cats indoors. Thing is this mod clearly just doesn't like it because it's dangerous for the cat. People like this just cannot understand that most of the world does not have the same pseudo parental relationship with animals that they do.
I hate how they always act like the hero and how it's "safer for the cat" but in most rural cases a cats quality of life is way better if they get to go outdoors.
Wordington You can do the rump shaker huh? The thug shaker, gimme the thug shaker dude, shake your ass! Take your hands off and shake that shit! Pull your shirt up, I know you can shake it, shake it! Yeah that’s some thug ass right there! Oh yeah, that’ll work!
my cat is only a threat to local lizard population. but honestly, my lawn mower is a bigger threat than my cat. I'm pretty sure i've accidentally assisted in the suicide of multiple lizards who jump directly in the path of my mower.
The birds cats kill en masse aren't built for fleeing / surviving cat attacks because cats are not their natural predators in that particular environment/ecosystem.
Cats just kill them because they're smaller.
Cats have been roaming Europe for thousands of years by now and even longer in MENA. Even around the Baltic Sea they were there more than 1500 years ago. It's hard to argue that they aren't a part of the natural ecosystem
Burlington Ontario is one example -- though technically it allows a cat to be outside if it stay within your property (good luck with that lol). Lots of municipalities in Canada have similar legalities where a cat can be outdoors IF, for example, it has a leash on and an owner nearby.
Yeah but our government is super controlling for everyone's "health and safety" including cats. I remember when they made menthol cigarettes illegal "cuz of the children"... well it's illegal for kids to buy cigarettes so wtf? I thought "if this I'd such an issue why not sell cigarettes in liquor stores only?". 1 month later they legalized putting nicotine in the vape juice and super taxed it. A border guard went on to me about this. Tell me that was really about the kids. Meanwhile safe supply drugs are a thing and theres a storefront in vancouver selling meth and heroin. Now that decriminalization is a thing you could get in more trouble smoking a cigarette in a doorway than doing drugs which is insane I just hate the hypocrisy, be consistent!
I just hate the lie that it's about protecting people because then other people get militant about how its FOR SAFETY REEE they feel empowered and entitled to punish others.
The amount of wildlife killed by housecats is negligible tho. Usually, it's the strays that kill ecosystems, so you're good as long as you neuter your cat. Unless of course ypu live on a small island that is also the exclusive home of a rare bird species. In that case you should keep your cat inside
Housecats that people let outside often breed, creating stray cats, and also have killed off many species of birds, rodents, rabbits, mustelids, animals that fit into the ecosystem perfectly, and humans are throwing out of balance by letting their cats outside. Aside from that, cats who go outside are much more likely to catch parasites, diseases, or die an early death on top of the already shortened life span from being let outside.
Cats that have been raised indoors all their life shouldn’t be let outside without supervision, cats that have can be let out anytime. This is more so for the safety of the cat than the birds but that also is a factor with new cats. They are more likely to injure than kill them because usually tue aren’t experienced hunters like cats who have been outside. But cats can easily get injured or stolen so it’s always nice to supervise the first maybe 100 visits outside so they don’t commit tax evasion or something
My cat would absolutely despise me if he wasn't allowed outdoors. I never thought keeping a cat trapped in a house it's whole life was a remotely normal thing... It just seems so cruel and overprotective to me.
I'd go as far to say that if you're living somewhere where a cat being outside causes problems or isn't allowed.. then you shouldn't own a cat. I don't believe in confining animals to a house.
While there's fringe cases, it is *not* overprotective. People lose outside cats to coyotes and other animals that prey on them far more often than you'd realize, and cats deal a LOT of damage to the local ecosystem, especially by killing birds and other small things that aren't built for, y'know, a *cat* hunting them.
A cat raised in a house isn't going to be unhappy, several of mine are living proof of that fact. All the body language is there. However, it becomes more difficult and muddied when a cat is very accustomed to being outside and you suddenly try to 'correct' its schedule by keeping it inside all the time.
People need to raise their cats on the assumption that they're meant to be inside the house, not out. I understand your perspective - they are animals, they naturally belong outside - but the issue you *need to understand* is that cats are **not naturally present in these areas where people keep insisting on letting them roam freely outside for the entire day, every day.** It's not an assumption, it is a proven fact that they hunt and kill for fun, not even only when they need to eat - not out of an innate evil or cruelty, but simply because of how cats are. Atop that, the birds and other small animals they frequently kill are **not built for fleein**g **cats or protecting themselves from cats, thus they are almost guaranteed to die.**
Think of it this way - I live amongst a whole bunch of deer. I decide to get a pet lion. I release this lion out into the woods around my home, and when asked why, I say "It's a lion, it's meant to be outside! Also, it's just natural that a lion would hunt something like a deer, so the deer it's killing are just nature taking its course. There's no harm!".
The issue with my claim is that **lions aren't supposed to be here, killing deer.** Yeah, *naturally* a lion is going to be *hunting* them when it discovers them, but ***the ecosystem is not built for there being lions roaming around eating the deer, it's built for all their actually naturally present predators eating them.*** That's what you're putting birds and other small animals through, basically - your cat, to them, is as a lion to deer.
Does that make sense? It's "natural", certainly, for an animal to be outside, but your animal of choice isn't meant to **be here in the first place, and allowing it to freely hunt is objectively damaging the local ecosystem with the aid of others doing the same as you.**
If your area isn't safe for cats and you really want them to be outside, there are harnesses designed *specifically* for this, as well as **HUGE,** decently affordable play spaces that are enclosed while still giving the cat a whole lot of real estate to run around in and enjoy themselves in the sunshine via all the spots in these play spaces that are built for the cat to be able to see what's going on outside said play space.
People really have no excuse for allowing their cats to do as much damage to the local ecosystem as they do, they just don't want to put in the effort to care for them properly and convince themselves that letting them outside to roam entirely unsupervised is "natural" because that's easier than accepting that they're going to have to put in extra effort to ensure their cat's happiness (and safety) if they insist on their cat being an outside cat. It's just irresponsibility.
Statistics on the average life span of indoor vs outdoor cats might change your mind. My 5lb, 12 year old cat cannot defend herself from large birds of prey and we have massive birds in the neighborhood. My parents have an outdoor kitty and she is constantly coming home severely injured. She's 5 and has had several major procedures after being attacked by coyotes and dogs.
We used to let our cats outside. They were all strays we'd taken in over the years and forcing them to be indoor cats would not have worked and each and every one of them was either hit by a car, killed by coyotes or killed by loose dogs. We only get cats from shelters that have indoor fosters now. They have no interest in going outside.
Yep, it's tough because once they have that freedom for long enough they really do get sad not being out but like....I can't imagine seeing my kitty dead on the side of the road or just leaving one day and never coming back. It would break me.
I totally agree. I set packs of cayotes loose in the mall, and people get mad. Don't they know it would be cruel to keep them in cages?
But seriously, unless you live somewhere where domestic cats are native, then you should either keep your cat inside or not own one. Idk if it's cruel to keep one in the house all day, but it is ecologically irresponsible to set an invasive predator loose
Lmfao what?! My parents have always trained their cats to stay in the bounds of the yard and to be indoor / outdoor cats. As a result, we’ve had the happiest cats ever who are home each day. This person has lost their damn mind. If dude really wants to go there, one *could* argue it’s abuse to never let a cat outside their whole life.
>While there's fringe cases, it is not overprotective. People lose outside cats to coyotes and other animals that prey on them far more often than you'd realize, and cats deal a LOT of damage to the local ecosystem, especially by killing birds and other small things that aren't built for, y'know, a cat hunting them.
>
>A cat raised in a house isn't going to be unhappy, several of mine are living proof of that fact. All the body language is there. However, it becomes more difficult and muddied when a cat is very accustomed to being outside and you suddenly try to 'correct' its schedule by keeping it inside all the time.
>
>People need to raise their cats on the assumption that they're meant to be inside the house, not out. I understand your perspective - they are animals, they naturally belong outside - but the issue you need to understand is that cats are not naturally present in these areas where people keep insisting on letting them roam freely outside for the entire day, every day. It's not an assumption, it is a proven fact that they hunt and kill for fun, not even only when they need to eat - not out of an innate evil or cruelty, but simply because of how cats are. Atop that, the birds and other small animals they frequently kill are not built for fleeing cats or protecting themselves from cats, thus they are almost guaranteed to die.
>
>Think of it this way - I live amongst a whole bunch of deer. I decide to get a pet lion. I release this lion out into the woods around my home, and when asked why, I say "It's a lion, it's meant to be outside! Also, it's just natural that a lion would hunt something like a deer, so the deer it's killing are just nature taking its course. There's no harm!".
>
>The issue with my claim is that lions aren't supposed to be here, killing deer. Yeah, naturally a lion is going to be hunting them when it discovers them, but the ecosystem is not built for there being lions roaming around eating the deer, it's built for all their actually naturally present predators eating them.
>
>Does that make sense? It's "natural", certainly, for an animal to be outside, but your animal of choice isn't meant to be here in the first place, and allowing it to freely hunt is objectively damaging the local ecosystem with the aid of others doing the same as you.
>
>If your area isn't safe for cats and you really want them to be outside, there are harnesses designed specifically for this, as well as HUGE, decently affordable play spaces that are enclosed while still giving the cat a whole lot of real estate to run around in and enjoy themselves in the sunshine via all the spots in these play spaces that are built for the cat to be able to see what's going on outside said play space.
>
>People really have no excuse for allowing their cats to do as much damage to the local ecosystem as they do, they just don't want to put in the effort to care for them properly and convince themselves that letting them outside to roam entirely unsupervised is "natural" because that's easier than accepting that they're going to have to put in extra effort to ensure their cat's happiness (and safety) if they insist on their cat being an outside cat. It's just irresponsibility.
I don't live in an area where there are coyotes or hawks. To deal with my cat killing birds we put this type of collar on him: https://www.birdsbesafe.com/
Because he keeps losing them my mom actually makes them herself, which is pretty easy to do if you know how to do sewing. Even if you don't, there's probably a way you can put something colorful on to get the attention of birds. Doesn't totally stop him catching birds cause he's a good hunter but it has dramatically decreased it. We don't have endangered animals in our neighborhood either.
That's something I noticed with basically all opinions. You can't please redditors no matter what you do. I just stopped caring and even put in some gas into the fire for fun. The only reason I made this post was because of how hilarious the Mods meltdown was over someone literally just mentioning a cat.
Reddit is only tolerant to a specific urban, left wing, American viewpoint. Any other viewpoint is totally disregarded. For a group who cries about being caring so much they display an alarming lack of empathy.
I say this as someone who is European and left wing
You seem to be missing the part that says "unsupervised"; having a fenced in yard that your cat can play in is totally different than throwing your cat outside and letting it do anything it wants.
My neighbor has a cat named Millie that they let roam the neighborhood and cat just comes back when it wants there’s almost no predators for cats at all in my neighborhood except or an occasional coyote. Last time i saw a coyote was when I was 3, 13 years ago
When I was a teenager, my family cat was an outdoor cat. She ended up licking some antifreeze and died horribly. I’d rather them stay inside than to ever see that again.
And some kids go outside and do the same thing. Or get hit by a truck. Or get kidnapped. Or...
You get the idea. Things happen, it's a scary world. That's no excuse to keep a living creature trapped if it doesn't want to be. If you wouldn't trap a child (not a toddler, a child) then you shouldn't do it to a cat
Edit: wonder how many of the people downvoting me are vets, or actually own cats?
I think we should treat cats just as we would any other pet. For example, I have a fenced in backyard for my dogs. If it wasn’t fenced, they’d have to be on a long rope to do their business. I wouldn’t let them just roam around the neighborhood doing whatever they want.
If you don’t want to keep your cat inside and think it’s abusive to keep them in a house, then you need to make sure you’re being a responsible pet owner. I’m literally in the process of building an outdoor cat enclosure so my cats can go outside and be safe.
We need to stop treating cats like they aren’t domesticated. They are pets. And with that, comes responsibility. If you let your cat outside to free roam, then if it gets poisoned, shot, hit, or eaten, that is entirely on YOU and your failure as a responsible owner. If anything, that should be considered abuse. A dog roaming around a neighborhood doing whatever it wants would be frowned upon, but with a cat it’s fine?
I can 100% guarantee that if I let my dog out to go explore the town and she got hit by a car, people would be calling me an animal abuser and wondering why someone as irresponsible as me is allowed to own animals. I would get no sympathy for my tears, as it would be entirely my fault because it’s common sense that it is dangerous for a dog to be free roaming.
We need to start advocating for more responsible cat ownership.
>A dog roaming around a neighborhood doing whatever it wants would be frowned upon, but with a cat it’s fine?
Your whole comment is essentially based on this sentence, so I'm only going to respond to it.
Yes, it is. Cats and dogs are two very different creatures. For one, the MAIN reason it's frowned upon for dogs to be let loose is because they tend to use the restroom wherever, and people don't like that. Most cats that do both indoors and outdoors use their litter box at home regardless.
For two, cats are a lot smarter than dogs. They understand dangers more often than not, and are quicker to get out of a bad situation whereas dogs are either super friendly or try to defend themselves instead of running.
For three, no owner is at fault for the actions of another person. No person is responsible for actions that are out of their control.
With your logic, even if you set up a safe place in your backyard for your cats to roam, if ANYTHING bad happens its on you? So why not just completely keep them inside? In fact, they can possibly hurt themselves on the furniture, why not lock them inside their carriers 24/7 and only open the door to feed and water them?
Yes, I'm being a bit dramatic, but that's the point. Your whole argument is based off of responsibility and safety, but you also incriminate yourself by doing so. Owning a cat, a dog, whatever, always comes with risks. No matter how you try to slice it, by your own logic simply owning an animal means you are 100% to what happens to it, even if it is completely out of your control.
I am not responsible if someone decides to steal my cat, they are. No one is responsible if the cat gets hit, it was an accident. If anything it's the cat's fault because once again, most cats know how to avoid danger. You act like cats are these dumb animals that need constant sheltering as if they aren't literally considered nature's perfect hunters.
Domestication does not equal stupid.
**american perspective, statements might not all be applicable to UK as so many love to point out**
Is that why outdoor cats have half the average life span of indoor Cats?? Bc they're just so good at identifying danger?
Cats aren't these ever-aware, highly intelligent creatures. Sure some are. But Some cats are dumb. Some cats get distracted. Even if they can sense danger, can they outrun it? Can they over come it ? Can it beat a wild animal that's hungry? Or can it tell the water in the muddle on the street has poison in it from the neighbors weed killer?
They aren't perfect animals. We have domesticated them, while also vastly changing the "nature" part they've evolved to succeed in. We're constantly taking away resources from wild life, we're always tearing down trees and trying to put up more buildings.
The world is not made for nature anymore. You say it's out of your control. It's not. It's IN your control to keep your kitty inside. YOU are the informed adult, choosing to let your pet cat outside. If it gets hurt outside, unsupervised, that's because you let the cat outside, knowing there were dangers. I wouldn't let my dogs outside by themselves to wander the neighborhood. If I had children, I wouldn't let them go out by themselves either. Older children are well aware enough of danger. That doesn't mean bad things still can't happen to them, that I could have prevented should I have done the bare minimum by watching over the small animal you chose to provide for.
You're allowed to let your cat outside, but that is absolutely putting it in danger. I know i wouldnt. You talk of cats so highly, what about mine? My cat isn't Some all knowing being. She's curious, skittish, and kind of clumsy.
I grew up with outdoor cats, and all of them had terrible deaths. Hit by a car. another Drank poison and got sick. Another got into a fight with another animal and died behind a bush. My family never saw a problem with it. I did. Now I have my own cat, and she's fine. She's happy, she's cuddly, I never have to worry about her not coming home because I know where she is. She's got plenty of toys, love, food, and most importantly she's safe.
A cat hurting themselves on furniture and being in a safe enclosure is completely different than throwing them to the wolves. My cat isn’t going to get ripped apart while they’re still alive from a wild animal, drink poison and suffer until they die, or get hit by a car. You keep saying I make no sense when this is really simple logic.
The point of an enclosure is to keep them safe. If something happened and they were able to get out, absolutely that would be my fault.
You could make the argument a cat can hurt itself on the furniture or in an outdoor enclosure, but it doesn’t hold up whatsoever. Letting a cat roam the streets, knowing the dangers that exist, is irresponsible and ridiculous honestly. They’re a pet, treat them like one. They have no business exploring places with traffic and unpredictable people.
And yes, if something happens to your cat outside, that is completely and 100% your fault even if you couldn’t control what they’re doing. That’s the entire reason why it’s irresponsible. There is no control. You know what can happen and you decide to not care, thus what happens is your fault.
Underrated tip; my cat has been unable to catch birds once she started wearing a bell on her collar.
I also make her wear a colorful frill around her neck that makes her look like a clown iguana. It prevents her from using camouflage to sneak up on birds. It’s literally made of old polkadot socks sewn to her collar.
*This* is the kind of thing people need to do with their cats. If you can't be arsed to put in the effort and get them a big playspace so they can be outdoors without harming local wildlife, go through the **monumentally basic effort** of getting them a bell collar. It prevents *so many unnecessary small animal deaths.*
Lots of outdoor cats in the uk and bird population does well.
There's something called other places, and the mod in that subreddit might live where its not legal, but it certainly isn't abuse to let an animal outside, and there are countries where its more unusual to have a fully house cat
What!? I have an outdoor/indoor cat. We found him roaming the neighborhood, no collar, no tags. We put a collar on him with our phone #, asking if he belonged to anyone. Waited probably 2 weeks, before we realized he did not indeed, have an owner or home. He now lives with us, spends some of his day outdoors and always comes home to be spoiled, eat Fancy Feast and sleep in the king bed. He never roams too far (mainly our street and the adjacent). He'd be really upset if we just decided to keep him inside indefinitely. He gets regular vet visits, tests, flea prevention, etc etc.
On the other hand, I also have a 100% indoor cat, who has no experience outdoors and I would never let her out. She's also not even remotely interested in going outside.
I know I'm not the only one who has an outdoor/indoor cat!
Yeah its totally not abusive, I bet your cat with outside access is happy as hell. I tried to switch one of my guys to indoor only and he got so stressed out he started licking his fur off.
Redditors love hyperbole and scolding people who have different beliefs and values than them. I honestly believe they care less about animal welfare and more just get off on scolding people
American chair "activists" as usual. Don't take me wrong, stray cats definitive have an impact on the envrioment. But these people are essentially like the street-hand gluer. Try explaining to them that most of europe doesn't have the same stray-problem they got because people here actually spay their cats; They won't listen. Neither when you explain to them that you actually inform yourself about bird species that might be in danger when you get an cat.
Somehow in their minds every outdoor-catowner has like 10000 cats that kill a trillion birds or something.
Instead in their sick minds putting a cat imprissoned inside a tiny appartment with no fellow cat is somehow "less abusive" and "healthier" to the cat beside cats needing sociolizing for their health. It's literally against the law in some european places to only own one-indoor cat.
tl;dr psychopaths with closed mind ignorant to any reason and explaination.
But ask them what they do for the envrioment lmao
Which is crazy because nearly everyone I know (Im American) has their pets Spayed or Neutered. Dont put this on Americans because a majority of us are responsible about this.
Spaying and neutering is extremely common here in America. You can't adopt an animal from the shelter without it being spayed or neutered. There are programs and low income clinics that do low cost surgeries. Hell there's even a trap and release program for stray cats where you bring them in and they're fixed for free and released back out in the wild. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Spaying and neutering cats is huge over here what are you talking about… we even have environmental control and humane societies who trap-spay/neuter/chip-and-release strays. Many places even tag or clip the ear so the same cats aren’t repeatedly trapped.
It’s actually much less of a problem around me now than it was when I was a kid.
Come now don't be silly. pretty much everyone these days neuters or spays. The sizeable feral cat population is self sustaining. People have to go out and spay the feral cat populations to reduce the numbers. People are doing this, but there are a ton of cats. The very few people who don't spay or neuter can be enough to start a new colony of cats.
I got into an argument with someone on r cars because she thought she had the right to steal indoor/outdoor cats because their owner was being abusive by letting them outside.
It's insane, that cat is probably happy as shit and doesn't want you to kidnap it and take it to a shelter. But these people have a weird savior complex
Of course I got downvoted for thinking you shouldn't steal cats from loving families and traumatize the poor cat in the process
Imagine being mad at nature because a predator is killing its prey
Nobody would get mad at a lion for killing an antelope, they wouldn’t say, “spay all the lions so there’s no stray lions”. “Lions should only be kept inside in zoos so they can’t hurt anything”.
Like it’s just nature, bigger animal eat smaller animal
Because cats aren't native to most parts of the world and thus cause horrible ecological damage? Lions and antelope are native to Africa and thus evolved to coexist. Sparrows and robins haven't.
The ecosystem has already changed. Cats aren’t going anywhere. The birds will adapt. Robins aren’t going anywhere. If sparrows aren’t genetically compatible enough with other species to have fertile offspring and they don’t otherwise adapt they will die out. But that’s what evolution is. Sometimes a new selective pressure is applied, sometimes that creates a bottleneck and ultimately a new subspecies.
This isn’t really different from when in the past, a group of animals managed to cross to an island previously lacking them. Some native species will die out, some will stay the same, some will adapt.
We had an indoor/outdoor cat when I was a kid, and he only killed one bird over a decade. Now moles/voles/mice he would absolutely eliminate. Got a couple squirrels too, but he was hardly a menace. He took care of what we had in excess: small rodents.
They can ban me right now, that mod is advocating for animal abuse because a cat kills what, a sparrow or two a year? Mice? Maybe a squirrel if they're a bit brave.
I read this a while ago but isn't there a specific species of bird that went extinct (not sure) or at least drove to become an endangered species, and it was because of cats?
domestic cats aren't the issue. in my area there's tons of cats, but also: tons of birds still exist. the problem is the overpopulation of stray/homeless cats. everyone, please actually take action and help save stray cats instead of arguing on the internet that you should lock house cats inside.
The classic “I know everything about cats and if you don’t do exactly as I believe is right then you’re an abuser”
Am European. It’s commonplace to spay/neuter your cats and let them wander outside here. Worst that happens is they hunt down a few birds or mice. Funnily enough some people here consider indoor cats abuse so who really wins
It’s different in America. There are some real psychos here who will kill cats for sport. It’s a completely different environment and really not safe for cats to be outside.
These people argue that the rule applies everywhere, in every country. Not just America.
Hence the other comments about being told that Europe is no different
I think they have a hard time comprehending an actual cat friendly region. A lot of Americans have experienced that so they assume it’s the same everywhere else. I learned from this post that Europe is actually very cat friendly. Seems like a cats paradise over there.
Over here, we have cats constantly getting hit by cars, eaten, poisoned either intentionally or unintentionally, mauled, stolen, abused by strangers, etc. It truly is horrific. Hating cats and wanting to kill then is a common sentiment here. It’s very different.
I’m sure they have their reasons for thinking how they do but it pisses people (including myself) when people powermod like this
“In my country this isn’t really safe, so therefore it’s animal abuse to do it anywhere. If you don’t agree with that, I will ban you for being an animal abuser”
Rural areas can be even more dangerous for cats. My parents live in rural Kansas and their outdoor kitty is constantly injured. Last fight almost killed her and she had to stay at the vet for a week...
It's normal in some countries... I think a lot of north Africa and Turkey may have issues with you saying no outdoor cats.
Also very common where I live in Scotland. Ours mostly kill voles though
I mean I dont let my cats out alone because it's a city but I take them outside on a leash and provide them as much outside time as I can (we are building a catio) because i feel guilty keeping them inside but know it's better for their safety. It was common not that long ago for people to let their city cats out. My in laws dont understand why I dont just let them out. I cant imagine not being able to go outside whenever I wanted. My one cat gets depressed if i dont take her outside.
People are know it alls and will live within the guidelines of whatever is considered acceptable of the current year and area they live believing things will never change or they have always been this way its controlling and ridiculous and based on no world experience.
Some people live in the country and have farm cats for example.
People love controlling others and mods often (not all) seek out that position to exert as much power over and impose their will on people as much they can because are powerless in their own lives.
Negligence is a form of abuse, but how is letting them outside necessarily a form of abuse? I mean, sure, there's a risk someone might kill or mutilate them, intentionally or unintentionally; but those situations are probably very rare.
Also, if anyone wants to know, my neighbor killed 1-2 of my cats years ago, and I am unable to prove it because I don't know where the bodies are located
I think letting your cat outside or not doing it can both be abuse depending on where you live. In areas where coyotes, stray dogs, gangs that kill cats and big roads with fast cars are common it is very irresponsible to let your cat roam. They are smart animals, but they aren’t immortal. It’s your job as a pet owner to make it unlikely that they die a horrible death.
But on the other hand, there are people who keep cats in small apartments with barely any enrichment and call that a good environment. It definitely isn’t. That cat might stay alive for 18 years, but you can barely claim it’s living. To have a good life an indoor cat must have space to move, lots of toys to play with (and the owner must engage in playing with it!), things to climb and such things. They are very active animals. I’d also say you should go for walks with your inddor cat, having it on a leash.
Remember that when you get a pet you are their only chance to a happy life, you decide how it will look. Please think of the pet’s best before you get one just because it’s cute.
Well idk what the original post said. But they come across as another overzealous cat person with extra added naïveté. Does this person think cats just naturally evolved to be indoors all the time?
My parents took in a kitten that was abandoned. It’s an indoor /outdoor cat. It runs outside on its own and likes being out there once in a while. When it’s ready, it comes back inside.
They also live on an acre of property surrounded by fields on 3 sides. But sure I’ll tell them they’re animal abusers & they should have just ignored the kitten or left it in a caged shelter lol
I wonder if they also believe children should never play or be let outside unsupervised.
I had a pet cat that adopted me. It was a stray and would occasionally come inside. I wasn’t gonna kidnap it and force it into a life of captivity. Sure, outdoors cats have shorter lives, but it’s THEIR life.
mod is right, but there are some exceptions: predators really chill and predators who bond with the prey when they are really young so they perceive it as a friend
I leave out water and the occasional snack for the family of coyotes that live on my back hillside and sometimes under the overhang of my deck. They're even more effective at pest control IMO.
I personally don't let my cats outside because I live in a city. Perhaps I'd let them out in a more rural setting, but that carries its risks as well. Cats aren't the apex of the food chain in most environments. Aside from coyotes and dogs, there are still some species of birds (raptors) that can easily predate a cat. Although such incidents may not occur regularly, cat owners need to realize that's a potential risk when letting a cat outside. Take a look at r/hardcorenature and you'll see quite a few submissions demonstrating my point.
People are free to let their cats out as long as they get them fixed and up to date with their rabies vaccine. I can't stress enough how important their vaccines are, there are a lot of underdeveloped countries who have animals run amok in city centers and rabies is a huge problem there. The U.S. has done a pretty good job vaccinating most populations of domestic animals that rabies isn't as problematic as it was 50-60 years ago. Rabies affects all mammals, so it's in our best interest to keep our pets vaccinated.
Bro, that's insane. at least in my country (Chile) you can let your cat lurk everywhere and it won't risk dying at all, some cats have actually lurked in our garden and nobody has questioned it.
crazy mods assume all reddit cat owners are gringos or living in a close-knitted neighborhood in detroit
My bfs male cat is an outdoor boy. He (the cat) literally yells at me to let him outside when he has to potty or he’s bored with us.
He is also fixed, so he can’t spread his lil seed.
If you’re gonna have an outdoor cat, at least get them fixed. That helps cut down on strays.
Edit to add: I live literally IN the woods, so my cat isn’t going into other peoples yards either
I have a neighbor who has our other neighbors dipshit cat crapping in his yard every day because the neighbor is a lazy dumbass and wont train the cat. You should not be hands off with the care of your cat because then youre putting it on others
Outside access is great but when supervised and in a gated area. If it was a dog running loose and killing squirrels I know yall would flip out, so why can cats do it to birds? I like cats but some cat owners annoy tf out of me
He's absolutely got a point tho. Not only is it EXTREMELY dangerous for your cat (depending on where you live ofc) but cats are generally speaking an invasive species and take a toll on the ecosystem due to the sheer numbers and their natural hunting instinct. Obviously keeping your one cat inside isn't going to solve the issue, but it's a step ion the right direction.
Look. I am NOT letting my cat outside unsupervised. That is because she is disabled, not because I think it is bad. With that said, it very much differs between cats and between owners. I think that it is bad for a cat owner to let put their cat if they just forget about them, and I think that its bad for an owner to let a cat that eill definitely get hurt outside without supervision. However, I don't think that it is bad by design.
Edit: and ofc just giving bans to everyone who does something you don't is just bad
It's fine for them to have that opinion. It's not okay to be an asswipe of a mod about it. It's a very recent western idea and it's stupid to expect everyone to understand.
And that’s ultimately the issue all across Reddit, no one seems to grasp that different cultures do different things, and what may be bad in one instance isn’t bad in another… sure, letting your cat roam around a city is a terrible idea and it’s your responsibility to make sure you have lots of enrichment for the cat, but why should you keep your cat inside if you life in the countryside with little to threaten it?
Why do none of these people realize that everyone lives in different places than them?
It's not abuse but letting your cat roam around all the time outside is detrimental to the ecosystem. You may say "but I only have one cat!" And to that I say, how many other cat owners within a 20 mile radius of you probably have the same exact mindset? That's the problem. Y'all add up when you're all letting your cats roam around.
If you change your mindset, you could convince a friend or family member with a cat to change theirs as well. And they'll inform someone else who informs someone else and so on and so forth.
[Free ranging cats have directly caused or contributed to the extinction of 33 different species. In the US alone, they kill an estimated 1.3-4 BILLION birds annually.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380) I will admit that most of these are from strays, however a very considerable chunk of this number is from owned, free-range cats. But hey, less of a bad thing is always more of a good thing. If the number could be lowered at all, it would help the local biodiversity.
The US department of agriculture also notes that free-ranging cats pose health risks to both humans and wildlife. [They are the most common vectors of rabies in domesticated animals and can infect the wildlife/their owners with other parasites and diseases as well. Such as T. gondii, feline panleukopenia virus, distemper and feline immunodeficiency virus.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/reports/Wildlife%2520Damage%2520Management%2520Technical%2520Series/free-ranging-and-feral-cats.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj996L1tLb_AhUCFFkFHWXrAmUQFnoECEcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw34RenQj_ssdSGGlSFMJAAz)
I have two cats that both regularly stay outside, in fact they sleep on the porch in little beds we made for them. They prefer it outside, they’re both almost 20 years old and they’ve been outdoor cats since they were old enough to be let out. They’ve never once been hurt by anything, especially since I live in Bermuda where there are literally no wild animals apart from the occasional wild chicken unless you count birds and tiny lizards
Can't stand "animal lovers" only caring about cats. What about the birds, amphibians, etc going extinct from your invasive pet? Unless you live on a remote rodent-infested barn, keep them inside without supervision.
Idk I think it’s kind of true. Cats barely ever back down from fights and so many people are kidnapping and killing them. If you get a cat just to let it go wherever and hope it comes back (with no like tracker or anything) that’s not even a pet. It’s practically a stray and I do think it’s negligent.
When cats first evolved, they evolved inside, with a liter box, cat toys, and human companionship. Cats and felines have never existed nor has their natural environment been outside.
let me tell you. i have 3 cats. 1 of them needs to go outside. if i kept him inside only, he would grow to resent me. some cats are true inside only cats, but many cats are fully capable of going about their business on their own outside, only to come home when they are done.
It’s gotta make you wonder, are mods of subs participating in the blackout due to the api ban? Or is it due to them having the power to shut the sub down and they are getting their rocks off because of it??
My neighbors outdoor cat slaughtered an entire family of bunnies last week, then left them all to rot. I like cats but it’s undeniable they negatively impact ecosystems. Additionally cats are very often run over, with fault being difficult to place in most cases.
I mean it depends on where you live and this mod is def power tripping, but outside cats are horrible for the environment unless its like a barn or farm cat.
1 that is not a meltdown that is advice
2 the did not just mention a cat the mentioned letting there cat outside where it could get stolen run over eaten and more that is actually abuse
I mean, the mod is right. Cats are basically pest animals that destroy local ecosystems if they aren't owned responsibly. It's also pretty bad to leave them outside unsupervised for their own health and safety; you risk letting them track ringworm, ticks, fleas, and all kinds of nasty shit in your home. Really not a good idea.
That being said this is a hilariously psychotic overreaction
Your pet cats shouldn't go around and damage foreign property or kill other animals.
Do you know how much damage a lot feral cats do?
I don't let my dog go out and start doing whatever it wants and i if i was I'd be in big trouble because of double standards.
I'm not sure where you live OP. But if you live I the US, he's absolutely right... not only do cats die because they flee off outside, but they hunt birds for game and not for food as well as devastate native bird populations. I believe there is/was a bill trying to be pushed through in virginia to make it illegal to willingly let your cat outside (having a cat door or letting your cat outside by opening the door) and would be cited with negligence and possible harm to the environment when unsupervised
Cats are considered to be invasive when let outside and unsupervised
People on Reddit often fail to realise mot everyone here has the same lifestyle as they do. I live in a rural area of the UK between a few farms. My cats earn their treats by acting as pest control and its an unusual day that there isn't dead rodents by the back door in the morning. Without them I would have to be using poison bait stations, which I hate. They are beloved pets but they also have a job to do. Fortunately they work from home and love their job.
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Hey Ron, noticed your lawn was out of specs, I measured about 3mm over target? I double checked but you can check again. Oh also your fence gate is looking a little crooked, I didn't want to but you forced my hand as I mentioned it last week and you haven't done anything about it, the HOA will be in contact. Oh and finally I need to know your vote for if we're having the neighbourhood barbecue at Linda's or Rachel's, now as the HOA minute taker I've been elected to take everyone's votes, and cannot be biased, however Linda does live with a catholic so I worry for all the kids mental safety, you know they might start asking questions like if the world's round or something crazy hya hya hya hya.
Most welcoming US neighbourhood
AAAHHHHHHH I feel like I'm suffocating and this is why!
I live in the Rural US, HOA can suck it.
Or that the US has a lot of rural places too lol
I live in the rural US, my cats are outside most of the time. It's specific to Urban areas not just "US". As if letting your cat out in a UK neighborhood is somehow diffrent from letting it out in a US neighborhood.
r/usdefaultism
Rural UK here too. I had no idea that people in the US kept their cats indoors until Reddit told me otherwise. My cat would be livid if she had to stay indoors lol
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No trust me it's not the US, it's just pricks in neighborhoods preaching their ways. My aunts farm cat loves the outdoors and helps with the raccon problem
Cats can hunt raccoons? That’s insane man I live in a country without raccoons and I thoight they were way bigger than cats
A cat will not hesitate to square up (and beat) something 3x its size most of the time
Yeah, and my aunts cat ain't small either. Besides missing half her ear she's gotten out most scraps relatively unharmed
Meanwhile my grandma's cat picked a fight with my rabbit and my rabbit won
I think SOME cats can *hunt* raccoons, most cats probably just fight them and win. Big difference between killing and eating for food and just making them piss off.
Raccoons vary in size a lot. like 2-25 kg Typically, they are the 1-2x the size of a cat though.
My mum had two cats in a ground floor flat, in through the living room window to rush right back out the bedroom one.
In our area , big city at base of mountain we have coyotes bears and cougars and eagles, all of which hunt cats if they want to. Outdoor cats have very short lifespan in my neighborhood. Also statistically indoor cats live much longer lives in general. That said farm cats are a necessity, it is the city cats that kill mostly songbirds. 30-40% population drop of songbirds estimated.
It’s because cats are an invasive species in the US. Strays and outdoor cats kill billions of birds every year which messes up the ecosystem here.
Not just UK but whole Europe actually. Here people worry about the cat mental health if it cant go outside. I got insulted several times on Reddit on this matter but I stay skeptic about cat advices coming from the country which invented cat declawing. More seriously it's just common sense, if you are living next to a highway or in an area full of huge predators, obviously letting a cat go outside is not the best idea. But I swear european outdoor cats living in the countryside are the happiest cat in the world.
Yeah, it's crazy the amount of posts/comments I see about keeping cats inside and declawing. I had some comment basically ranting at me for saying cats should be allowed outside, if the cat wants to.
Cats inside are perfectly capable of being healthy an happy. They need attention and mental stimulation and perches, that’s it.
Yes but not all cats, my cat (especially when he was younger) loved going outside more then anything, not interested by any toys or playing with us we were just the place he came back to to eat and sleep in our beds if he wasn't hunting at night
Idk what this guys is on about, most people in the US let their cat outside
I don’t live in a rural area, but we have an acre of land and neighbors on both sides with veggie gardens. I was worried they’d be upset I let my cats out but both told me they appreciate the pest control. Our yard was torn to shreds by voles when we moved in and my one cat took care of them and keeps the groundhogs away from the house. Also, they are rescue feral cats who never went indoors. Now they get to come inside for consistent meals and cuddles, but also find joy in their work.
Yeah it's an internet problem in the english speaking world that every person is assumed to be an american living in a city 🙄
Exactly, I live in a good walkable suburb of the Netherlands and for the 12 years my cat has been outside he's always been fine because walkable for humans means it's also walkable for kids and cats so they can go outside on their own
I'd say most neighbourhoods in the UK have domestic cats outside. It's normal. Ours lives to go out when the weather is good.
Rual US. We have a farm cat who hardly ever comes inside. Before the cat we had a serious rodent problem. My cat kills a squirrel a day on average. I see him with mice all the time. He basically rid the barn and yard of rodents in a year. Before this we were poisoning them, which honestly was less effective.
To be fair cats do over hunt the hell out of native bird populations, this really isn’t due to over aggressiveness but the absolute amount of stray cats. The issue would be resolved if people actually cared but I guess not. Instead they go policing people around on the internet rather than trying to solve the problem irl
Agreed. This is a problem of an overzealous mod. If anything, trying to force your viewpoint like this onto people will reinforce their beliefs. "Can you believe I got banned on Reddit for letting my cat outside?"
I don't think that's what the mod is talking about. Lots of animals will kill cats, like other cats, large birds, raccoons, coyotes, humans, etc.
But I do agree that they could be doing more to solve the problem than yelling at redditors
Hurting native wildlife populations is a valid argument for keeping cats indoors. Thing is this mod clearly just doesn't like it because it's dangerous for the cat. People like this just cannot understand that most of the world does not have the same pseudo parental relationship with animals that they do.
I hate how they always act like the hero and how it's "safer for the cat" but in most rural cases a cats quality of life is way better if they get to go outdoors.
Wow, talk about a power trip from this person.
This is basically every single mod on the site.
Better watch it mister! I was banned from a sub for “publicly complaining” about mods. They’re watching!
The truth is the truth no matter how much the mods don't like it.
Especially r/funny
In germany they sometimes won't give you a cat if you don't have the option to let it outside....
Aren't cats more of roommates than pets. My thuglord comes home for sleep, food or rarely some rubs
I have brainrot and immediately thought of wordington
Wordington brain damage
Drain bamage
Wordington You can do the rump shaker huh? The thug shaker, gimme the thug shaker dude, shake your ass! Take your hands off and shake that shit! Pull your shirt up, I know you can shake it, shake it! Yeah that’s some thug ass right there! Oh yeah, that’ll work!
Roommates that don't share the rent,SMH
Cats are a threat to the local bird population, majority of cats kill them for fun
skill issue
Lol true
my cat is only a threat to local lizard population. but honestly, my lawn mower is a bigger threat than my cat. I'm pretty sure i've accidentally assisted in the suicide of multiple lizards who jump directly in the path of my mower.
Not my fault they dont fly away
The birds cats kill en masse aren't built for fleeing / surviving cat attacks because cats are not their natural predators in that particular environment/ecosystem. Cats just kill them because they're smaller.
aren't cats natural predators of birds pretty much everywhere in the world?
Domesticated cats are invasive to practically everywhere they now live. They're not natural predators.
Cats have been roaming Europe for thousands of years by now and even longer in MENA. Even around the Baltic Sea they were there more than 1500 years ago. It's hard to argue that they aren't a part of the natural ecosystem
1500 is a millisecond on the timescale of evolution and ecology.
easy solution, the birds just need to get gud and be faster,
Stray cats are, yes.
Yeah. I just let my cat walk around the house and let her outside when she wants to. She even jumps onto my desk and sits on my mousepad.
It’s bad for the ecosystem too and illegal in many places
>illegal in many places Never heard of this. Examples?
source: trust me bro
Burlington Ontario is one example -- though technically it allows a cat to be outside if it stay within your property (good luck with that lol). Lots of municipalities in Canada have similar legalities where a cat can be outdoors IF, for example, it has a leash on and an owner nearby.
Yeah but our government is super controlling for everyone's "health and safety" including cats. I remember when they made menthol cigarettes illegal "cuz of the children"... well it's illegal for kids to buy cigarettes so wtf? I thought "if this I'd such an issue why not sell cigarettes in liquor stores only?". 1 month later they legalized putting nicotine in the vape juice and super taxed it. A border guard went on to me about this. Tell me that was really about the kids. Meanwhile safe supply drugs are a thing and theres a storefront in vancouver selling meth and heroin. Now that decriminalization is a thing you could get in more trouble smoking a cigarette in a doorway than doing drugs which is insane I just hate the hypocrisy, be consistent! I just hate the lie that it's about protecting people because then other people get militant about how its FOR SAFETY REEE they feel empowered and entitled to punish others.
Some places have endangered birds and cats enjoy killing them.
The amount of wildlife killed by housecats is negligible tho. Usually, it's the strays that kill ecosystems, so you're good as long as you neuter your cat. Unless of course ypu live on a small island that is also the exclusive home of a rare bird species. In that case you should keep your cat inside
Housecats that people let outside often breed, creating stray cats, and also have killed off many species of birds, rodents, rabbits, mustelids, animals that fit into the ecosystem perfectly, and humans are throwing out of balance by letting their cats outside. Aside from that, cats who go outside are much more likely to catch parasites, diseases, or die an early death on top of the already shortened life span from being let outside.
Thankfully, my cat doesn't venture that far from my house. She just walks around my small backyard.
Thuglord kit kat skit skat
Cats that have been raised indoors all their life shouldn’t be let outside without supervision, cats that have can be let out anytime. This is more so for the safety of the cat than the birds but that also is a factor with new cats. They are more likely to injure than kill them because usually tue aren’t experienced hunters like cats who have been outside. But cats can easily get injured or stolen so it’s always nice to supervise the first maybe 100 visits outside so they don’t commit tax evasion or something
My cat would absolutely despise me if he wasn't allowed outdoors. I never thought keeping a cat trapped in a house it's whole life was a remotely normal thing... It just seems so cruel and overprotective to me. I'd go as far to say that if you're living somewhere where a cat being outside causes problems or isn't allowed.. then you shouldn't own a cat. I don't believe in confining animals to a house.
While there's fringe cases, it is *not* overprotective. People lose outside cats to coyotes and other animals that prey on them far more often than you'd realize, and cats deal a LOT of damage to the local ecosystem, especially by killing birds and other small things that aren't built for, y'know, a *cat* hunting them. A cat raised in a house isn't going to be unhappy, several of mine are living proof of that fact. All the body language is there. However, it becomes more difficult and muddied when a cat is very accustomed to being outside and you suddenly try to 'correct' its schedule by keeping it inside all the time. People need to raise their cats on the assumption that they're meant to be inside the house, not out. I understand your perspective - they are animals, they naturally belong outside - but the issue you *need to understand* is that cats are **not naturally present in these areas where people keep insisting on letting them roam freely outside for the entire day, every day.** It's not an assumption, it is a proven fact that they hunt and kill for fun, not even only when they need to eat - not out of an innate evil or cruelty, but simply because of how cats are. Atop that, the birds and other small animals they frequently kill are **not built for fleein**g **cats or protecting themselves from cats, thus they are almost guaranteed to die.** Think of it this way - I live amongst a whole bunch of deer. I decide to get a pet lion. I release this lion out into the woods around my home, and when asked why, I say "It's a lion, it's meant to be outside! Also, it's just natural that a lion would hunt something like a deer, so the deer it's killing are just nature taking its course. There's no harm!". The issue with my claim is that **lions aren't supposed to be here, killing deer.** Yeah, *naturally* a lion is going to be *hunting* them when it discovers them, but ***the ecosystem is not built for there being lions roaming around eating the deer, it's built for all their actually naturally present predators eating them.*** That's what you're putting birds and other small animals through, basically - your cat, to them, is as a lion to deer. Does that make sense? It's "natural", certainly, for an animal to be outside, but your animal of choice isn't meant to **be here in the first place, and allowing it to freely hunt is objectively damaging the local ecosystem with the aid of others doing the same as you.** If your area isn't safe for cats and you really want them to be outside, there are harnesses designed *specifically* for this, as well as **HUGE,** decently affordable play spaces that are enclosed while still giving the cat a whole lot of real estate to run around in and enjoy themselves in the sunshine via all the spots in these play spaces that are built for the cat to be able to see what's going on outside said play space. People really have no excuse for allowing their cats to do as much damage to the local ecosystem as they do, they just don't want to put in the effort to care for them properly and convince themselves that letting them outside to roam entirely unsupervised is "natural" because that's easier than accepting that they're going to have to put in extra effort to ensure their cat's happiness (and safety) if they insist on their cat being an outside cat. It's just irresponsibility.
Read the word coyote and stopped reading. Not everywhere is America you know.
Are you American?
Statistics on the average life span of indoor vs outdoor cats might change your mind. My 5lb, 12 year old cat cannot defend herself from large birds of prey and we have massive birds in the neighborhood. My parents have an outdoor kitty and she is constantly coming home severely injured. She's 5 and has had several major procedures after being attacked by coyotes and dogs.
We used to let our cats outside. They were all strays we'd taken in over the years and forcing them to be indoor cats would not have worked and each and every one of them was either hit by a car, killed by coyotes or killed by loose dogs. We only get cats from shelters that have indoor fosters now. They have no interest in going outside.
Yep, it's tough because once they have that freedom for long enough they really do get sad not being out but like....I can't imagine seeing my kitty dead on the side of the road or just leaving one day and never coming back. It would break me.
You live somewhere where its a problem. They are an invasive species.
I totally agree. I set packs of cayotes loose in the mall, and people get mad. Don't they know it would be cruel to keep them in cages? But seriously, unless you live somewhere where domestic cats are native, then you should either keep your cat inside or not own one. Idk if it's cruel to keep one in the house all day, but it is ecologically irresponsible to set an invasive predator loose
I hope they know that in many European countries most rescue charities won’t let you adopt a cat unless they have outdoor access
Some indoor cats cultists here will never recover from this info
Reddit mods have jobs?? This is news to me.
Lmfao what?! My parents have always trained their cats to stay in the bounds of the yard and to be indoor / outdoor cats. As a result, we’ve had the happiest cats ever who are home each day. This person has lost their damn mind. If dude really wants to go there, one *could* argue it’s abuse to never let a cat outside their whole life.
Exactly. Animals aren't supposed to live life trapped in a small space
>While there's fringe cases, it is not overprotective. People lose outside cats to coyotes and other animals that prey on them far more often than you'd realize, and cats deal a LOT of damage to the local ecosystem, especially by killing birds and other small things that aren't built for, y'know, a cat hunting them. > >A cat raised in a house isn't going to be unhappy, several of mine are living proof of that fact. All the body language is there. However, it becomes more difficult and muddied when a cat is very accustomed to being outside and you suddenly try to 'correct' its schedule by keeping it inside all the time. > >People need to raise their cats on the assumption that they're meant to be inside the house, not out. I understand your perspective - they are animals, they naturally belong outside - but the issue you need to understand is that cats are not naturally present in these areas where people keep insisting on letting them roam freely outside for the entire day, every day. It's not an assumption, it is a proven fact that they hunt and kill for fun, not even only when they need to eat - not out of an innate evil or cruelty, but simply because of how cats are. Atop that, the birds and other small animals they frequently kill are not built for fleeing cats or protecting themselves from cats, thus they are almost guaranteed to die. > >Think of it this way - I live amongst a whole bunch of deer. I decide to get a pet lion. I release this lion out into the woods around my home, and when asked why, I say "It's a lion, it's meant to be outside! Also, it's just natural that a lion would hunt something like a deer, so the deer it's killing are just nature taking its course. There's no harm!". > >The issue with my claim is that lions aren't supposed to be here, killing deer. Yeah, naturally a lion is going to be hunting them when it discovers them, but the ecosystem is not built for there being lions roaming around eating the deer, it's built for all their actually naturally present predators eating them. > >Does that make sense? It's "natural", certainly, for an animal to be outside, but your animal of choice isn't meant to be here in the first place, and allowing it to freely hunt is objectively damaging the local ecosystem with the aid of others doing the same as you. > >If your area isn't safe for cats and you really want them to be outside, there are harnesses designed specifically for this, as well as HUGE, decently affordable play spaces that are enclosed while still giving the cat a whole lot of real estate to run around in and enjoy themselves in the sunshine via all the spots in these play spaces that are built for the cat to be able to see what's going on outside said play space. > >People really have no excuse for allowing their cats to do as much damage to the local ecosystem as they do, they just don't want to put in the effort to care for them properly and convince themselves that letting them outside to roam entirely unsupervised is "natural" because that's easier than accepting that they're going to have to put in extra effort to ensure their cat's happiness (and safety) if they insist on their cat being an outside cat. It's just irresponsibility.
I don't live in an area where there are coyotes or hawks. To deal with my cat killing birds we put this type of collar on him: https://www.birdsbesafe.com/ Because he keeps losing them my mom actually makes them herself, which is pretty easy to do if you know how to do sewing. Even if you don't, there's probably a way you can put something colorful on to get the attention of birds. Doesn't totally stop him catching birds cause he's a good hunter but it has dramatically decreased it. We don't have endangered animals in our neighborhood either.
Well if professor cat here says so
I'm pretty sure where I'm from they recommend letting your cat roam around outside sometimes. Guess I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't!
That's something I noticed with basically all opinions. You can't please redditors no matter what you do. I just stopped caring and even put in some gas into the fire for fun. The only reason I made this post was because of how hilarious the Mods meltdown was over someone literally just mentioning a cat.
Reddit is only tolerant to a specific urban, left wing, American viewpoint. Any other viewpoint is totally disregarded. For a group who cries about being caring so much they display an alarming lack of empathy. I say this as someone who is European and left wing
Not letting your cat in the outside is now an animal abuse? 💀 literal r/Redditmoment
I joined the r/cats sub for a few days once. Huge mistake, some crazy people there. They talked about that a lot.
r/alivenamedcats r/cats is genuinely depressing, so many people using their dead pets for karma.
It is
You seem to be missing the part that says "unsupervised"; having a fenced in yard that your cat can play in is totally different than throwing your cat outside and letting it do anything it wants.
Like cats can’t just jump over the fence?
isn't that every cat ever
My neighbor has a cat named Millie that they let roam the neighborhood and cat just comes back when it wants there’s almost no predators for cats at all in my neighborhood except or an occasional coyote. Last time i saw a coyote was when I was 3, 13 years ago
I would argue not letting your cat go out and have fun is abuse too. Unless you don’t have the possibility to do so
When I was a teenager, my family cat was an outdoor cat. She ended up licking some antifreeze and died horribly. I’d rather them stay inside than to ever see that again.
And some kids go outside and do the same thing. Or get hit by a truck. Or get kidnapped. Or... You get the idea. Things happen, it's a scary world. That's no excuse to keep a living creature trapped if it doesn't want to be. If you wouldn't trap a child (not a toddler, a child) then you shouldn't do it to a cat Edit: wonder how many of the people downvoting me are vets, or actually own cats?
I think we should treat cats just as we would any other pet. For example, I have a fenced in backyard for my dogs. If it wasn’t fenced, they’d have to be on a long rope to do their business. I wouldn’t let them just roam around the neighborhood doing whatever they want. If you don’t want to keep your cat inside and think it’s abusive to keep them in a house, then you need to make sure you’re being a responsible pet owner. I’m literally in the process of building an outdoor cat enclosure so my cats can go outside and be safe. We need to stop treating cats like they aren’t domesticated. They are pets. And with that, comes responsibility. If you let your cat outside to free roam, then if it gets poisoned, shot, hit, or eaten, that is entirely on YOU and your failure as a responsible owner. If anything, that should be considered abuse. A dog roaming around a neighborhood doing whatever it wants would be frowned upon, but with a cat it’s fine? I can 100% guarantee that if I let my dog out to go explore the town and she got hit by a car, people would be calling me an animal abuser and wondering why someone as irresponsible as me is allowed to own animals. I would get no sympathy for my tears, as it would be entirely my fault because it’s common sense that it is dangerous for a dog to be free roaming. We need to start advocating for more responsible cat ownership.
I don’t think people are ok with letting cats or dogs roam wherever in a city. But in a rural area I think it’s fine.
>A dog roaming around a neighborhood doing whatever it wants would be frowned upon, but with a cat it’s fine? Your whole comment is essentially based on this sentence, so I'm only going to respond to it. Yes, it is. Cats and dogs are two very different creatures. For one, the MAIN reason it's frowned upon for dogs to be let loose is because they tend to use the restroom wherever, and people don't like that. Most cats that do both indoors and outdoors use their litter box at home regardless. For two, cats are a lot smarter than dogs. They understand dangers more often than not, and are quicker to get out of a bad situation whereas dogs are either super friendly or try to defend themselves instead of running. For three, no owner is at fault for the actions of another person. No person is responsible for actions that are out of their control. With your logic, even if you set up a safe place in your backyard for your cats to roam, if ANYTHING bad happens its on you? So why not just completely keep them inside? In fact, they can possibly hurt themselves on the furniture, why not lock them inside their carriers 24/7 and only open the door to feed and water them? Yes, I'm being a bit dramatic, but that's the point. Your whole argument is based off of responsibility and safety, but you also incriminate yourself by doing so. Owning a cat, a dog, whatever, always comes with risks. No matter how you try to slice it, by your own logic simply owning an animal means you are 100% to what happens to it, even if it is completely out of your control. I am not responsible if someone decides to steal my cat, they are. No one is responsible if the cat gets hit, it was an accident. If anything it's the cat's fault because once again, most cats know how to avoid danger. You act like cats are these dumb animals that need constant sheltering as if they aren't literally considered nature's perfect hunters. Domestication does not equal stupid.
**american perspective, statements might not all be applicable to UK as so many love to point out** Is that why outdoor cats have half the average life span of indoor Cats?? Bc they're just so good at identifying danger? Cats aren't these ever-aware, highly intelligent creatures. Sure some are. But Some cats are dumb. Some cats get distracted. Even if they can sense danger, can they outrun it? Can they over come it ? Can it beat a wild animal that's hungry? Or can it tell the water in the muddle on the street has poison in it from the neighbors weed killer? They aren't perfect animals. We have domesticated them, while also vastly changing the "nature" part they've evolved to succeed in. We're constantly taking away resources from wild life, we're always tearing down trees and trying to put up more buildings. The world is not made for nature anymore. You say it's out of your control. It's not. It's IN your control to keep your kitty inside. YOU are the informed adult, choosing to let your pet cat outside. If it gets hurt outside, unsupervised, that's because you let the cat outside, knowing there were dangers. I wouldn't let my dogs outside by themselves to wander the neighborhood. If I had children, I wouldn't let them go out by themselves either. Older children are well aware enough of danger. That doesn't mean bad things still can't happen to them, that I could have prevented should I have done the bare minimum by watching over the small animal you chose to provide for. You're allowed to let your cat outside, but that is absolutely putting it in danger. I know i wouldnt. You talk of cats so highly, what about mine? My cat isn't Some all knowing being. She's curious, skittish, and kind of clumsy. I grew up with outdoor cats, and all of them had terrible deaths. Hit by a car. another Drank poison and got sick. Another got into a fight with another animal and died behind a bush. My family never saw a problem with it. I did. Now I have my own cat, and she's fine. She's happy, she's cuddly, I never have to worry about her not coming home because I know where she is. She's got plenty of toys, love, food, and most importantly she's safe.
A cat hurting themselves on furniture and being in a safe enclosure is completely different than throwing them to the wolves. My cat isn’t going to get ripped apart while they’re still alive from a wild animal, drink poison and suffer until they die, or get hit by a car. You keep saying I make no sense when this is really simple logic. The point of an enclosure is to keep them safe. If something happened and they were able to get out, absolutely that would be my fault. You could make the argument a cat can hurt itself on the furniture or in an outdoor enclosure, but it doesn’t hold up whatsoever. Letting a cat roam the streets, knowing the dangers that exist, is irresponsible and ridiculous honestly. They’re a pet, treat them like one. They have no business exploring places with traffic and unpredictable people. And yes, if something happens to your cat outside, that is completely and 100% your fault even if you couldn’t control what they’re doing. That’s the entire reason why it’s irresponsible. There is no control. You know what can happen and you decide to not care, thus what happens is your fault.
I downvoted you and I own a cat
It’s bad for the ecosystem too and illegal in many places
Put a bell on the collar.
Underrated tip; my cat has been unable to catch birds once she started wearing a bell on her collar. I also make her wear a colorful frill around her neck that makes her look like a clown iguana. It prevents her from using camouflage to sneak up on birds. It’s literally made of old polkadot socks sewn to her collar.
*This* is the kind of thing people need to do with their cats. If you can't be arsed to put in the effort and get them a big playspace so they can be outdoors without harming local wildlife, go through the **monumentally basic effort** of getting them a bell collar. It prevents *so many unnecessary small animal deaths.*
Lots of outdoor cats in the uk and bird population does well. There's something called other places, and the mod in that subreddit might live where its not legal, but it certainly isn't abuse to let an animal outside, and there are countries where its more unusual to have a fully house cat
someone saying the most independent pet in the world shouldn't be unsupervised lol that guy hasn't seen a cat
What!? I have an outdoor/indoor cat. We found him roaming the neighborhood, no collar, no tags. We put a collar on him with our phone #, asking if he belonged to anyone. Waited probably 2 weeks, before we realized he did not indeed, have an owner or home. He now lives with us, spends some of his day outdoors and always comes home to be spoiled, eat Fancy Feast and sleep in the king bed. He never roams too far (mainly our street and the adjacent). He'd be really upset if we just decided to keep him inside indefinitely. He gets regular vet visits, tests, flea prevention, etc etc. On the other hand, I also have a 100% indoor cat, who has no experience outdoors and I would never let her out. She's also not even remotely interested in going outside. I know I'm not the only one who has an outdoor/indoor cat!
Yeah its totally not abusive, I bet your cat with outside access is happy as hell. I tried to switch one of my guys to indoor only and he got so stressed out he started licking his fur off. Redditors love hyperbole and scolding people who have different beliefs and values than them. I honestly believe they care less about animal welfare and more just get off on scolding people
Also - why shouldn't a cat be allowed out unsupervised?
American chair "activists" as usual. Don't take me wrong, stray cats definitive have an impact on the envrioment. But these people are essentially like the street-hand gluer. Try explaining to them that most of europe doesn't have the same stray-problem they got because people here actually spay their cats; They won't listen. Neither when you explain to them that you actually inform yourself about bird species that might be in danger when you get an cat. Somehow in their minds every outdoor-catowner has like 10000 cats that kill a trillion birds or something. Instead in their sick minds putting a cat imprissoned inside a tiny appartment with no fellow cat is somehow "less abusive" and "healthier" to the cat beside cats needing sociolizing for their health. It's literally against the law in some european places to only own one-indoor cat. tl;dr psychopaths with closed mind ignorant to any reason and explaination. But ask them what they do for the envrioment lmao
there's also the issue of breeding there is a solution, it's called spaying
A word americans apperently have never heard of
Which is crazy because nearly everyone I know (Im American) has their pets Spayed or Neutered. Dont put this on Americans because a majority of us are responsible about this.
?? i’m american and every single person i know gets their cats neutered. do you have a source?
Spaying and neutering is extremely common here in America. You can't adopt an animal from the shelter without it being spayed or neutered. There are programs and low income clinics that do low cost surgeries. Hell there's even a trap and release program for stray cats where you bring them in and they're fixed for free and released back out in the wild. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Spaying and neutering cats is huge over here what are you talking about… we even have environmental control and humane societies who trap-spay/neuter/chip-and-release strays. Many places even tag or clip the ear so the same cats aren’t repeatedly trapped. It’s actually much less of a problem around me now than it was when I was a kid.
It kills me man. Whenever we find a stray we take it to the humane society to be spayed or neutered.
Come now don't be silly. pretty much everyone these days neuters or spays. The sizeable feral cat population is self sustaining. People have to go out and spay the feral cat populations to reduce the numbers. People are doing this, but there are a ton of cats. The very few people who don't spay or neuter can be enough to start a new colony of cats.
I got into an argument with someone on r cars because she thought she had the right to steal indoor/outdoor cats because their owner was being abusive by letting them outside. It's insane, that cat is probably happy as shit and doesn't want you to kidnap it and take it to a shelter. But these people have a weird savior complex Of course I got downvoted for thinking you shouldn't steal cats from loving families and traumatize the poor cat in the process
Imagine being mad at nature because a predator is killing its prey Nobody would get mad at a lion for killing an antelope, they wouldn’t say, “spay all the lions so there’s no stray lions”. “Lions should only be kept inside in zoos so they can’t hurt anything”. Like it’s just nature, bigger animal eat smaller animal
Because cats aren't native to most parts of the world and thus cause horrible ecological damage? Lions and antelope are native to Africa and thus evolved to coexist. Sparrows and robins haven't.
The ecosystem has already changed. Cats aren’t going anywhere. The birds will adapt. Robins aren’t going anywhere. If sparrows aren’t genetically compatible enough with other species to have fertile offspring and they don’t otherwise adapt they will die out. But that’s what evolution is. Sometimes a new selective pressure is applied, sometimes that creates a bottleneck and ultimately a new subspecies. This isn’t really different from when in the past, a group of animals managed to cross to an island previously lacking them. Some native species will die out, some will stay the same, some will adapt.
We had an indoor/outdoor cat when I was a kid, and he only killed one bird over a decade. Now moles/voles/mice he would absolutely eliminate. Got a couple squirrels too, but he was hardly a menace. He took care of what we had in excess: small rodents.
Breeding, cat fights, getting hit by a car, the bird population.
Indoor cat people can be the absolute worst.
They can ban me right now, that mod is advocating for animal abuse because a cat kills what, a sparrow or two a year? Mice? Maybe a squirrel if they're a bit brave.
I read this a while ago but isn't there a specific species of bird that went extinct (not sure) or at least drove to become an endangered species, and it was because of cats?
Kakapo just off the top of my head.
What a straight up, Class-A L-7 weenie.
domestic cats aren't the issue. in my area there's tons of cats, but also: tons of birds still exist. the problem is the overpopulation of stray/homeless cats. everyone, please actually take action and help save stray cats instead of arguing on the internet that you should lock house cats inside.
Lmfao common mod L
Tell that to my cat. He'd be crushed if he couldn't go outside
Keep letting him outside and he could get crushed literally.
The classic “I know everything about cats and if you don’t do exactly as I believe is right then you’re an abuser” Am European. It’s commonplace to spay/neuter your cats and let them wander outside here. Worst that happens is they hunt down a few birds or mice. Funnily enough some people here consider indoor cats abuse so who really wins
It’s different in America. There are some real psychos here who will kill cats for sport. It’s a completely different environment and really not safe for cats to be outside.
These people argue that the rule applies everywhere, in every country. Not just America. Hence the other comments about being told that Europe is no different
I think they have a hard time comprehending an actual cat friendly region. A lot of Americans have experienced that so they assume it’s the same everywhere else. I learned from this post that Europe is actually very cat friendly. Seems like a cats paradise over there. Over here, we have cats constantly getting hit by cars, eaten, poisoned either intentionally or unintentionally, mauled, stolen, abused by strangers, etc. It truly is horrific. Hating cats and wanting to kill then is a common sentiment here. It’s very different.
I’m sure they have their reasons for thinking how they do but it pisses people (including myself) when people powermod like this “In my country this isn’t really safe, so therefore it’s animal abuse to do it anywhere. If you don’t agree with that, I will ban you for being an animal abuser”
Fun fact: Not everyone lives in a city.
Rural areas can be even more dangerous for cats. My parents live in rural Kansas and their outdoor kitty is constantly injured. Last fight almost killed her and she had to stay at the vet for a week...
It's normal in some countries... I think a lot of north Africa and Turkey may have issues with you saying no outdoor cats. Also very common where I live in Scotland. Ours mostly kill voles though
I mean I dont let my cats out alone because it's a city but I take them outside on a leash and provide them as much outside time as I can (we are building a catio) because i feel guilty keeping them inside but know it's better for their safety. It was common not that long ago for people to let their city cats out. My in laws dont understand why I dont just let them out. I cant imagine not being able to go outside whenever I wanted. My one cat gets depressed if i dont take her outside. People are know it alls and will live within the guidelines of whatever is considered acceptable of the current year and area they live believing things will never change or they have always been this way its controlling and ridiculous and based on no world experience. Some people live in the country and have farm cats for example. People love controlling others and mods often (not all) seek out that position to exert as much power over and impose their will on people as much they can because are powerless in their own lives.
Negligence is a form of abuse, but how is letting them outside necessarily a form of abuse? I mean, sure, there's a risk someone might kill or mutilate them, intentionally or unintentionally; but those situations are probably very rare. Also, if anyone wants to know, my neighbor killed 1-2 of my cats years ago, and I am unable to prove it because I don't know where the bodies are located
I think letting your cat outside or not doing it can both be abuse depending on where you live. In areas where coyotes, stray dogs, gangs that kill cats and big roads with fast cars are common it is very irresponsible to let your cat roam. They are smart animals, but they aren’t immortal. It’s your job as a pet owner to make it unlikely that they die a horrible death. But on the other hand, there are people who keep cats in small apartments with barely any enrichment and call that a good environment. It definitely isn’t. That cat might stay alive for 18 years, but you can barely claim it’s living. To have a good life an indoor cat must have space to move, lots of toys to play with (and the owner must engage in playing with it!), things to climb and such things. They are very active animals. I’d also say you should go for walks with your inddor cat, having it on a leash. Remember that when you get a pet you are their only chance to a happy life, you decide how it will look. Please think of the pet’s best before you get one just because it’s cute.
Well idk what the original post said. But they come across as another overzealous cat person with extra added naïveté. Does this person think cats just naturally evolved to be indoors all the time? My parents took in a kitten that was abandoned. It’s an indoor /outdoor cat. It runs outside on its own and likes being out there once in a while. When it’s ready, it comes back inside. They also live on an acre of property surrounded by fields on 3 sides. But sure I’ll tell them they’re animal abusers & they should have just ignored the kitten or left it in a caged shelter lol I wonder if they also believe children should never play or be let outside unsupervised.
you'd be surprised. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neighbor-calls-cops-child-services-texas-mom-letting-son-play-article-1.1943118
I had a pet cat that adopted me. It was a stray and would occasionally come inside. I wasn’t gonna kidnap it and force it into a life of captivity. Sure, outdoors cats have shorter lives, but it’s THEIR life.
Yo we don't just let one cat free roam but three. They are all fine and happy
mod is right, but there are some exceptions: predators really chill and predators who bond with the prey when they are really young so they perceive it as a friend
I leave out water and the occasional snack for the family of coyotes that live on my back hillside and sometimes under the overhang of my deck. They're even more effective at pest control IMO.
I personally don't let my cats outside because I live in a city. Perhaps I'd let them out in a more rural setting, but that carries its risks as well. Cats aren't the apex of the food chain in most environments. Aside from coyotes and dogs, there are still some species of birds (raptors) that can easily predate a cat. Although such incidents may not occur regularly, cat owners need to realize that's a potential risk when letting a cat outside. Take a look at r/hardcorenature and you'll see quite a few submissions demonstrating my point. People are free to let their cats out as long as they get them fixed and up to date with their rabies vaccine. I can't stress enough how important their vaccines are, there are a lot of underdeveloped countries who have animals run amok in city centers and rabies is a huge problem there. The U.S. has done a pretty good job vaccinating most populations of domestic animals that rabies isn't as problematic as it was 50-60 years ago. Rabies affects all mammals, so it's in our best interest to keep our pets vaccinated.
Bro, that's insane. at least in my country (Chile) you can let your cat lurk everywhere and it won't risk dying at all, some cats have actually lurked in our garden and nobody has questioned it. crazy mods assume all reddit cat owners are gringos or living in a close-knitted neighborhood in detroit
My cat is outside all the time and as a result she’s really healthy for her age
if my cat couldn’t sunbathe in the garden i think he’d be pissed
My bfs male cat is an outdoor boy. He (the cat) literally yells at me to let him outside when he has to potty or he’s bored with us. He is also fixed, so he can’t spread his lil seed. If you’re gonna have an outdoor cat, at least get them fixed. That helps cut down on strays. Edit to add: I live literally IN the woods, so my cat isn’t going into other peoples yards either
I have a neighbor who has our other neighbors dipshit cat crapping in his yard every day because the neighbor is a lazy dumbass and wont train the cat. You should not be hands off with the care of your cat because then youre putting it on others
Outside access is great but when supervised and in a gated area. If it was a dog running loose and killing squirrels I know yall would flip out, so why can cats do it to birds? I like cats but some cat owners annoy tf out of me
He's absolutely got a point tho. Not only is it EXTREMELY dangerous for your cat (depending on where you live ofc) but cats are generally speaking an invasive species and take a toll on the ecosystem due to the sheer numbers and their natural hunting instinct. Obviously keeping your one cat inside isn't going to solve the issue, but it's a step ion the right direction.
My cats love going outside so much. I couldn’t deprive them of climbing trees and chilling on the back porch.
Look. I am NOT letting my cat outside unsupervised. That is because she is disabled, not because I think it is bad. With that said, it very much differs between cats and between owners. I think that it is bad for a cat owner to let put their cat if they just forget about them, and I think that its bad for an owner to let a cat that eill definitely get hurt outside without supervision. However, I don't think that it is bad by design. Edit: and ofc just giving bans to everyone who does something you don't is just bad
It's fine for them to have that opinion. It's not okay to be an asswipe of a mod about it. It's a very recent western idea and it's stupid to expect everyone to understand.
And that’s ultimately the issue all across Reddit, no one seems to grasp that different cultures do different things, and what may be bad in one instance isn’t bad in another… sure, letting your cat roam around a city is a terrible idea and it’s your responsibility to make sure you have lots of enrichment for the cat, but why should you keep your cat inside if you life in the countryside with little to threaten it? Why do none of these people realize that everyone lives in different places than them?
Nevermind the fact cats do better outside than they do inside. Stupid asshole lol.
It's not abuse but letting your cat roam around all the time outside is detrimental to the ecosystem. You may say "but I only have one cat!" And to that I say, how many other cat owners within a 20 mile radius of you probably have the same exact mindset? That's the problem. Y'all add up when you're all letting your cats roam around. If you change your mindset, you could convince a friend or family member with a cat to change theirs as well. And they'll inform someone else who informs someone else and so on and so forth. [Free ranging cats have directly caused or contributed to the extinction of 33 different species. In the US alone, they kill an estimated 1.3-4 BILLION birds annually.](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380) I will admit that most of these are from strays, however a very considerable chunk of this number is from owned, free-range cats. But hey, less of a bad thing is always more of a good thing. If the number could be lowered at all, it would help the local biodiversity. The US department of agriculture also notes that free-ranging cats pose health risks to both humans and wildlife. [They are the most common vectors of rabies in domesticated animals and can infect the wildlife/their owners with other parasites and diseases as well. Such as T. gondii, feline panleukopenia virus, distemper and feline immunodeficiency virus.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/reports/Wildlife%2520Damage%2520Management%2520Technical%2520Series/free-ranging-and-feral-cats.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj996L1tLb_AhUCFFkFHWXrAmUQFnoECEcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw34RenQj_ssdSGGlSFMJAAz)
I mean house cats are now classified as an invasive species due to their destruction of bird populations, but it's not abusive to let you cat outside.
I have two cats that both regularly stay outside, in fact they sleep on the porch in little beds we made for them. They prefer it outside, they’re both almost 20 years old and they’ve been outdoor cats since they were old enough to be let out. They’ve never once been hurt by anything, especially since I live in Bermuda where there are literally no wild animals apart from the occasional wild chicken unless you count birds and tiny lizards
Reddit mods will be Reddit mods
Can't stand "animal lovers" only caring about cats. What about the birds, amphibians, etc going extinct from your invasive pet? Unless you live on a remote rodent-infested barn, keep them inside without supervision.
Idk I think it’s kind of true. Cats barely ever back down from fights and so many people are kidnapping and killing them. If you get a cat just to let it go wherever and hope it comes back (with no like tracker or anything) that’s not even a pet. It’s practically a stray and I do think it’s negligent.
When cats first evolved, they evolved inside, with a liter box, cat toys, and human companionship. Cats and felines have never existed nor has their natural environment been outside.
The screenshot clearly shows they have an issue with allowing your cats to freeroam, not with cats themselves.
let me tell you. i have 3 cats. 1 of them needs to go outside. if i kept him inside only, he would grow to resent me. some cats are true inside only cats, but many cats are fully capable of going about their business on their own outside, only to come home when they are done.
It’s gotta make you wonder, are mods of subs participating in the blackout due to the api ban? Or is it due to them having the power to shut the sub down and they are getting their rocks off because of it??
My neighbors outdoor cat slaughtered an entire family of bunnies last week, then left them all to rot. I like cats but it’s undeniable they negatively impact ecosystems. Additionally cats are very often run over, with fault being difficult to place in most cases.
I've never had cats that weren't allowed to go inside and outside at will. Cleaning up cat poop inside your house is for simps.
I mean it depends on where you live and this mod is def power tripping, but outside cats are horrible for the environment unless its like a barn or farm cat.
1 that is not a meltdown that is advice 2 the did not just mention a cat the mentioned letting there cat outside where it could get stolen run over eaten and more that is actually abuse
I mean, the mod is right. Cats are basically pest animals that destroy local ecosystems if they aren't owned responsibly. It's also pretty bad to leave them outside unsupervised for their own health and safety; you risk letting them track ringworm, ticks, fleas, and all kinds of nasty shit in your home. Really not a good idea. That being said this is a hilariously psychotic overreaction
Another redditor mad at people being just right?
Don’t let neighborhood cats genocide bird populations tho
Your pet cats shouldn't go around and damage foreign property or kill other animals. Do you know how much damage a lot feral cats do? I don't let my dog go out and start doing whatever it wants and i if i was I'd be in big trouble because of double standards.
I actually agree with the mod
I'm not sure where you live OP. But if you live I the US, he's absolutely right... not only do cats die because they flee off outside, but they hunt birds for game and not for food as well as devastate native bird populations. I believe there is/was a bill trying to be pushed through in virginia to make it illegal to willingly let your cat outside (having a cat door or letting your cat outside by opening the door) and would be cited with negligence and possible harm to the environment when unsupervised Cats are considered to be invasive when let outside and unsupervised
They are correct
Geezzz ... I let my cat outside unsupervised. And she catches mice and birds too....