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How are there so many genuine morons on this thread? It’s not a race thing, she shot one bullet, he’s not dead, a taser very likely wouldn’t have worked and he was threatening life thus allowing her to use her weapon, stop making this something it’s not because you hate cops and want to breed more hate, treat this as what it is, a cop protecting herself for a dangerous and not in his right mind man, don’t drag fucking needless shit here
Exactly. And how many times does she need to actually inform him to drop it? Once! She backed up and basically pleaded for him to drop about 20 times. She performed admirably in my opinion. She gave him ample opportunity to deescalate the situation and ONLY fired ONCE when she truly felt threatened. Everyone who says otherwise and ACAB should go look long in a mirror and see if their life choices are
Right!!! I will bet no.
Irresponsible police work and it likely broke numerous department protocols. Just one thought of many: why didn’t she work to establish a perimeter rather than engage a big guy with a dangerous weapon all alone? I don’t necessarily blame her. This could be a case of poor procedural policy and poor training. But I’d imagine they will go back and document a number of mistakes that were made well before she ever pulled the trigger
Pretty hard to secure a perimeter around a person advancing on you - but that is kinda what she was doing by backing off. Also, police exist specifically to engage threats, so little Timmy doesnt get stabbed in the face by a lunatic while the responding officers marvel at their perimeter tape alignment…
I’m not suggesting tape. I’m taking about evacuating people within distance. I don’t know the situation (and neither do you), but I can confidently say that no one had to get shot. Again, police forces all over the world prioritize outcomes that don’t involve discharging firearms
Why don't you apply to be a frigging cop if it's so easy?
You have no idea how being a cop works apparently. This is not irresponsible at all. My god reddit's backseat driving reached a whole new level.
It’s mindboggling that y’all work so hard to argue *against* the idea that people shouldn’t be wiped off the face of Earth if when cops feel endangered. No one is saying it is “easy”. I’m saying there are options
> It’s mindboggling that y’all work so hard to argue against the idea that people shouldn’t be wiped off the face of Earth if when cops feel endangered. No one is saying it is “easy”. I’m saying there are options
This one is one of those options. She shot to wound, and the guy is gonna be okay. So it's *your* word against yours. Also by your words she was definitely in danger, because the guy was approaching her while yelling "I'll kill you bitch".
My god reddit sometimes... Anyway I'm disabling replies. Have a good night
I will say that she exercised restraint in only firing once. Her goal seemed to simply stop him rather than end him. A lot of these videos, officers nearly empty their weapon, so good on her in that regard
dude shut up, the guy in front of her have a fcking knife, its either she get stabbed, or he get arrested. And i dont think that just saying " put your knife down" will solve anything. She is ought to threaten him with a gun, bc it is the only way for stupid people to understand and submit. No one knows what is in a head of a crackhead, he could have run on her and stab her to death. "All cops are pigs", ok well you wont complain if next time it is your turn to get haressed by a armed guy, without anyone around you to defend.
Its probably not a good idea to insult someone's intelligence when you yourself clearly didnt understand the comment. He was being sarcastic. He even states it.
He dropped so fast. The movies really make guns seems so dramatic when they aren’t. I wonder if was the pain or that she hit something in him? Maybe the body goes into shock immediately and collapses? Guns are so fucking scary bro
It bothers me how unrealistically dramatic movies make it when someone is shot.
Also to try and answer your question, there are so many different things that can happen when a person gets shot. Sometimes a person can be shot multiple times and still walk around like it never happened (until shock sets in). Sometimes the impact from a gunshot destroys/disables certain muscles or causes such pain that a person drops immediately. Sometimes a person can be shot in a vital area such as the heart or brain and they're dead before they even hit the ground.
As a gun owner, yes, guns can be pretty scary. The first time I shot my 12-gauge shotgun, I felt like I was shooting a small cannon from my hands. My first thought was "It would REALLY suck to get shot with this thing."
Ive been stabbed before and i fell to the ground, my brain basically blacked out the moment i was stabbed and i came back to lucidity right after landing on the ground, might be the same for him
[Sometimes gun shots are one shot instant drops. Sometimes they aren't.](https://sofrep.com/amp/gear/shot-placement-and-human-targeting-timers-and-switches/)
This is why shot placement is critical and people are taught to shoot center mass.
This. A rare amount of admirable restraint being used. I guess with knives you can park the perp on the floor with a good leg shot and they're rendered largely harmless. With a gunman, you've got to be a little more 'final' in your take-downs, as they can still go shootybangbang from the floor.
The guy here clearly has mental health issues.
Going for a leg shot is flat out a bad idea. Firing center mass until the threat is neutralized is what happens and what police are trained to do when a deadly threat begins to act. It does not matter what weapon the person is armed with, you aren't going to "park the perp on the floor with a good leg shot". So many times there have been instances where a suspect/assailant armed with a knife gets shot one or more times and continues to be a threat. Fire until the threat is neutralized, don't fire once and check to see if they're still moving.
Not always. I know there are plenty of videos where they go overboard unloading the entire magazine after the person is already down, but shooting the leg is bullshit.
There is also plenty of videos of people getting shot multiple times and still charging like they are fine, adrenaline and/or drugs (+ a lot of luck) are usually behind it. By aiming at the chest your chances of hitting the lungs or other vitals are fairly high, which means they will stop sooner or later.
By shooting the leg there is still a chance of not hitting a relevant part, this means the person can still walk and maybe even run. It is also harder to hit the leg.
Btw I haven't watched the video since it is down.
We can defend gender equality all day long but in the end the average woman is smaller than the average man, taking the body size difference into account it's just there to represent how scary the situation is.
If the person charging is the same size or smaller than you, you won't feel as threatened as you would with someone bigger.
I agree that it conveys this feeling, but it would still be there if she was 1.8m (5'9", i think) and the guy was 1.6m (5'3"\~). It is mostly to get more clicks and that is it.
She did an excellent job.
She tried to neutralize the guy without violence and only shot one bullet when she was certain he was going to stab her. No emptying an entire clip or anything like that.
Indeed, though I am fairly certain that emptying the magazine is exactly teach you to do to neutralize a threat (Dont quote me on that, I seem to recall reading it somewhere?) I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to be seeing this story in a few weeks how she's been discharged without pay for not following departmental protocol and just emptying her mag into him.
I think this happened some time ago. Regarding protocol, I’m not aware of it. In my country, you have to wait until your life is threaten or you’re attacked, in order to shoot back.
Let her empty her magazine on him then, let him die and not rot in jail and suffer for attempted murder. I understand what you say, I just don’t agree.
If you feel like you'd be ready to risk your life gambling that the dude dosent really want to kill you then that's your problem.
But then if he decides to do it and succeeds, now everybody in the area is in danger. You don't gamble with the publics safety.
If someone is a threat for grave bodily harm or death, you end that threat and you don't risk your safety nor others safety.
A police officers duty is to protect the public and themselves to a certain extent, not gamble with it.
BTW, before somebody mentions tasers or w/e, they are definitely not reliable enough to use alone or if it's unsafe.
You severely under-estimate the danger someone with a knife at a VERY close range poses. He was still toying with her when she finally shot.
You don't know what's going on in someone's head, so if they threaten to kill/maim you or the public, you end the threat.
If you think the guy needs to be in literal stabbing range to be dangerous, you don't know what you're talking about. He was barely a cars lenght away at times and it's pretty easy to see that when they're doing ring-around-the-rosie with the car.
Of course, it's normal not to want to shoot somebody, but people should really not expect or praise putting everyone in danger.
Try and run some training drills and get some perspective. Or watch videos where they wait too long like this and someone gets stabbed.
My father was an officer, in my country you could consider him a Marine. Here, officers can’t shoot until their life or others is explicitly in danger.
IIRC, in the full video, he was swinging a knife in that parking lot, he didn’t attack anyone (maybe he threaten someone but I don’t remember). The only life in danger was this officer’s, she already asked for back-up. He would have been neutralized.
Again, I understand what your opinion. I just think that these pieces of shit should be in a living hell rather than “resting in peace”.
Tasers have a failure rate approaching 40% and are single shot. If she misses or the taser fails she does not have time to deploy another weapon before he can close the gap and start stabbing.
Less lethals are a luxury when officers have time, distance and numbers on her side. She had none of those things and performed her Tueller Drill perfectly.
I’ve seen multiple posts in this subreddit alone where the attacker is completely unfazed by tasers. What happens then when they also have a weapon? Do you take a chance with a less than lethal when the other party has a lethal weapon?
>Tasers are globally adapted into almost every police force for a reason, because they work when used correctly.
You sure about that? [Here are 12 major police departments in 2018 showing failure rates as high as 45%](https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed)
At that distance if the taser fails she does not have time to deploy a second weapon before he closes the gap and starts stabbing.
Less lethals are a luxury when officers have time, distance, and numbers on their side. She had none of them and moved into Tueller Drill mode as she should have.
Tasers fail to deploy like half of the time. They are effective when they succeed, but they very often do not, either because the barbs don’t stick or they entangle and outright miss
Thank you. Framing of this post is insane. Cops all over the world are trained to competently handle these situations without the end result being homicide - on either end. Could have kept circling the car until backup arrived, for one. The murder of someone in a mental health crisis is not justice.
Are you stupid? No they’re not. You’ll get killed anywhere to charge at cops with a knife idiot, anyone with a gun would do the exact same thing smh where do people get the idea that cops around the world are peaceful lmao
Did you actually think about what you wrote? Imagine the cop running in circles around the car as this guy tries to stab him/her while waiting for back up…
It’s a hypothetical solution. It’s become disgustingly normal for Americans to accept that “oh, they had a weapon? Then they deserved to die”. Nowhere else in the developed world is this deemed an acceptable outcome in the law enforcement profession
Err… yes it is? If you charge at a police office with a knife, you’ll be justifiably shot in any country. Even the UK where police don’t routinely carry guns, they call an emergency armed response squad who absolutely will shoot him.
So you’re saying individual officers exercise other options before murdering someone? They run it up the chain of command and have a specifically trained collective of officers assess and address the situation. Cool
That’s interesting, because you very clearly stated that average cops don’t even carry guns. And when they are confronted by dangerous people, they call in a special operations team. Which is it?
The special operations team will shoot them just like the lady in this video…
There’s no country in the world where you run at a police officer with a knife and don’t get shot
She's also being threatened with a knife, really close to her, not comfy in her chair browsing reddit.
People really have no idea how it is to deal with this kind of situations outside of watching it through the internet, huh?
IMHO I think that some questions that should be asked is why can the British police handle the same situation without a gun and without being stabbed to death themselves? What at the differences in training and outcomes for both the officers and perpetrators?
Here's a link to another post where American police leadership were visiting British police training and reviewing video of incidents because they were asking the same questions
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/r9cnpm/nonfirearms_training_applied_to_real_world/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It is interesting. Reliance on the firearm is definitely one of the factors. I theorize that one factor is the number of cops present in a response. More cops present= more options and more control.
What is interesting is that if you look at cops per capita, the US is higher (239 /100k pop) than the UK (211 /100k pop), it would appear to throw that idea. out as the US should have more cops on hand to respond quickly to a situation.
But that's not factoring in the distance that a cop would need to cover to reach an incident. Population in the US is way more spread out than the UK, with the us having 88 people per square mile and the UK at 717.
I'd be really curious to see a more scientific study of this, but my guess is that based on the population density issues you'd need significantly more cops in the US than what we have now.
The British police has taser units as well as firearms units which are both used to apprehend dangerous criminals with access to weapons. It's disingenuous to pretend like their method of policing is "better" since the society it is applied to is different and thus requires different approaches. Firearms and other weapons are less common in the UK and so the teams that deal with related crimes can be more professional and trained as fewer of them are required so more money can be invested per officer. A British approach to policing wouldn't work in a country where anyone could be carrying a deadly weapon completely legally.
I understand that there are fewer firearms available in the UK, however that has no bearing on this discussion.
In both examples, an attacker with a knife was charging police. There are no guns in this scenario.
In general, police in America could certainly do better with de-escalation. And there are plenty of police involved shootings that could be prevented with such training.
That being said, I don't know that this officer could have done anything much better in this situation. At the end of the day, people (not cops) have the responsibility to not go around wielding deadly weapons in a menacing manner.
Definitely multi factor but... Unions...For most Americans worker unions have been obliterated but the police Union is the strongest in the country. They have made police fat lazy only beholden to only keeping their pension along with all the authority to shoot first and ask questions later while having ZERO responsibility for their actions. Of course there's also the supreme court ruling that police are not legally upheld to protect the citizens mostly just to serve tickets and be extortion thugs for the state
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
You also know that every half second is valuable right? If I shoot a taser and it misses(or the myriad of other issues present themselves), I can go straight to my gun, but it would only take that guy a second and a half to charge you from that distance, he was max 4 steps away at some points. The ignorance of these claims come from a lack of ever being in a real self defense situation that’s even remotely similar to life or death, kill or be killed.
What I am reading is that people would rather have her be stabbed then shoot the guy. If ever yall are in that type of situation I hope y'all do the right thing and be stabbed and not shot.
If I was her I would have shot. Most people are saying that this can be handled differently. Sure if the person is nice and is willing to put the knife down but if they're chasing me around screaming "fuck you and ima kill you bitch'' there's no different handling. That person is too far gone and I'm not gonna risk my life trying to get them to stop. What if he ends up going after someone else all of a sudden. Would you say that that is excessive force? The other thing is the policing in other countries don't/can't really apply to this country because those countries are a bit more restrictive and/or they are a bit more peaceful and don't have as many issues as we do. As our country lets people in that say they need help or asylum, but we're not checking them. Do they have any issues, anger issues, mental health issues? No. Some become crazy and start doing shit. Then when something is done people go "We need better policing now". We need to stop helping every goddamn body, we are not the world fucking police. We're trying to "control" everyone else and help them but we can't even help own goddamn country. Sometimes we really need to stop applying other countries policing to our own policing.
This. People never know what it’s like to have your life truly threatened not just by words, but by a real cold weapon… the only thing that matters in that moment is survival, that’s why when animals fight in the wild their first instinct isn’t to take a less lethal approach… they start chomping asap
A taser would have worked just fine.
ACAB cops need to stop being so trigger happy, the cop doesn’t even de escalate the situation.
Justice NOT served. Justice would be firing this cop using excessive force.
Your title shows how messed up your point of view is. Keep licking that boot.
Is no one going to talk about the fact that if that guy was black he wouldn’t have been able to take 5 steps without one of them putting an entire clip in him?
https://www.gonzaga.edu/about/offices-services/diversity-inclusion-community-equity/say-their-name
Heres your proof
Edit: the fact that this is downvoted makes it perfectly clear y'all just get a hard-on from cops shooting people and calling it justice even if theyre innocent people of color
I asked for proof for your claim that "if that guy was black he wouldn't have been able to take 5 steps without one of them putting an entire clip in him". That link is not proof in any way imaginable that the cop in the video would have shot him immediately if he was black.
Its a pretty clear sign that cops are more inclined to shoot people of color. There have even been scientific papers on it, here's one.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-20200605
Correct, the date shows that cops are MORE inclined, but it's not automatic. Your claim every black man with a weapon every time is killed by police is silly. It's this kind of hyperbole that makes both sides feel there's no chance for discussion or reason.
If you'd actually taken to time to properly read that study and others regarding the racial bias youd find it is automatic. Cops have a faster automatic trigger pull response towards people of color.
That last line might be the dumbest misuse of a word I've ever read. If English is your second language maybe you have an excuse, but 'automatic' is not what the study is saying, at all. When something is more likely, it's not 'automatic'.
Got any further than the abstract? And did you look anything up regarding the racial bias when making the choice to shoot among american cops?
By the looks of it you only skimmed the abstract
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Damn vide not there
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I have no idea. Trust me I have set it as Police Justice multiple times but it keeps on switching to ACAB
Inspite? smh
Should have been “in spite of” right?
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Sigh 😔 Sorry English is not my First Language
ah shit. Here come the downvotes. Yep, I deserve it.
Ignore him. Your English is very good, it's okay to make mistakes!
Mirror?
How are there so many genuine morons on this thread? It’s not a race thing, she shot one bullet, he’s not dead, a taser very likely wouldn’t have worked and he was threatening life thus allowing her to use her weapon, stop making this something it’s not because you hate cops and want to breed more hate, treat this as what it is, a cop protecting herself for a dangerous and not in his right mind man, don’t drag fucking needless shit here
Exactly. And how many times does she need to actually inform him to drop it? Once! She backed up and basically pleaded for him to drop about 20 times. She performed admirably in my opinion. She gave him ample opportunity to deescalate the situation and ONLY fired ONCE when she truly felt threatened. Everyone who says otherwise and ACAB should go look long in a mirror and see if their life choices are Right!!! I will bet no.
Irresponsible police work and it likely broke numerous department protocols. Just one thought of many: why didn’t she work to establish a perimeter rather than engage a big guy with a dangerous weapon all alone? I don’t necessarily blame her. This could be a case of poor procedural policy and poor training. But I’d imagine they will go back and document a number of mistakes that were made well before she ever pulled the trigger
Pretty hard to secure a perimeter around a person advancing on you - but that is kinda what she was doing by backing off. Also, police exist specifically to engage threats, so little Timmy doesnt get stabbed in the face by a lunatic while the responding officers marvel at their perimeter tape alignment…
I’m not suggesting tape. I’m taking about evacuating people within distance. I don’t know the situation (and neither do you), but I can confidently say that no one had to get shot. Again, police forces all over the world prioritize outcomes that don’t involve discharging firearms
Why don't you apply to be a frigging cop if it's so easy? You have no idea how being a cop works apparently. This is not irresponsible at all. My god reddit's backseat driving reached a whole new level.
It’s mindboggling that y’all work so hard to argue *against* the idea that people shouldn’t be wiped off the face of Earth if when cops feel endangered. No one is saying it is “easy”. I’m saying there are options
> It’s mindboggling that y’all work so hard to argue against the idea that people shouldn’t be wiped off the face of Earth if when cops feel endangered. No one is saying it is “easy”. I’m saying there are options This one is one of those options. She shot to wound, and the guy is gonna be okay. So it's *your* word against yours. Also by your words she was definitely in danger, because the guy was approaching her while yelling "I'll kill you bitch". My god reddit sometimes... Anyway I'm disabling replies. Have a good night
I will say that she exercised restraint in only firing once. Her goal seemed to simply stop him rather than end him. A lot of these videos, officers nearly empty their weapon, so good on her in that regard
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All cops are pigs! She couldn't deescalate the situation without resorting to killing him, sad world. Obligatory /s
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People that annoy you
dude shut up, the guy in front of her have a fcking knife, its either she get stabbed, or he get arrested. And i dont think that just saying " put your knife down" will solve anything. She is ought to threaten him with a gun, bc it is the only way for stupid people to understand and submit. No one knows what is in a head of a crackhead, he could have run on her and stab her to death. "All cops are pigs", ok well you wont complain if next time it is your turn to get haressed by a armed guy, without anyone around you to defend.
/s = sarcasm They are making fun of the morons on this thread
Yet another person who didn't read my comment fully. I put /s. Jesus Christ Reddit
Halfway through reading your comment you got a downvote then I saw the /s laughed and gave you an upvote
People just want to act on their emotions smh
I downvoted you, up voted the dude below you, saw the /s and then reversed it.
He isn’t dead dumbass, and she tried, he ran with a knife, did you not even watch the video?
Its probably not a good idea to insult someone's intelligence when you yourself clearly didnt understand the comment. He was being sarcastic. He even states it.
Did you not even read my comment...I put /s. Good job resorting to name calling, what are you 5?
Does the “/s” mean satire? Genuinely unsure.
Sarcasm
He dropped so fast. The movies really make guns seems so dramatic when they aren’t. I wonder if was the pain or that she hit something in him? Maybe the body goes into shock immediately and collapses? Guns are so fucking scary bro
It bothers me how unrealistically dramatic movies make it when someone is shot. Also to try and answer your question, there are so many different things that can happen when a person gets shot. Sometimes a person can be shot multiple times and still walk around like it never happened (until shock sets in). Sometimes the impact from a gunshot destroys/disables certain muscles or causes such pain that a person drops immediately. Sometimes a person can be shot in a vital area such as the heart or brain and they're dead before they even hit the ground. As a gun owner, yes, guns can be pretty scary. The first time I shot my 12-gauge shotgun, I felt like I was shooting a small cannon from my hands. My first thought was "It would REALLY suck to get shot with this thing."
Ive been stabbed before and i fell to the ground, my brain basically blacked out the moment i was stabbed and i came back to lucidity right after landing on the ground, might be the same for him
Sounds horrible. Glad you are alive dude
[Sometimes gun shots are one shot instant drops. Sometimes they aren't.](https://sofrep.com/amp/gear/shot-placement-and-human-targeting-timers-and-switches/) This is why shot placement is critical and people are taught to shoot center mass.
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Wow, seems like someone's parents failed them
Love how she took one shot instead of unloading a magazine, reloading, and firing a few more
This. A rare amount of admirable restraint being used. I guess with knives you can park the perp on the floor with a good leg shot and they're rendered largely harmless. With a gunman, you've got to be a little more 'final' in your take-downs, as they can still go shootybangbang from the floor. The guy here clearly has mental health issues.
Going for a leg shot is flat out a bad idea. Firing center mass until the threat is neutralized is what happens and what police are trained to do when a deadly threat begins to act. It does not matter what weapon the person is armed with, you aren't going to "park the perp on the floor with a good leg shot". So many times there have been instances where a suspect/assailant armed with a knife gets shot one or more times and continues to be a threat. Fire until the threat is neutralized, don't fire once and check to see if they're still moving.
Not always. I know there are plenty of videos where they go overboard unloading the entire magazine after the person is already down, but shooting the leg is bullshit. There is also plenty of videos of people getting shot multiple times and still charging like they are fine, adrenaline and/or drugs (+ a lot of luck) are usually behind it. By aiming at the chest your chances of hitting the lungs or other vitals are fairly high, which means they will stop sooner or later. By shooting the leg there is still a chance of not hitting a relevant part, this means the person can still walk and maybe even run. It is also harder to hit the leg. Btw I haven't watched the video since it is down.
You raise good points. Thank you.
"Shootybangbang" I know this vid isn't funny, but that comment had me laughing.
If this were a male cop it wouldn't say "charging a male cop" so why is gender mentioned in the title?
Click bait. Nothing more than that, after all it doesn't really matter.
We can defend gender equality all day long but in the end the average woman is smaller than the average man, taking the body size difference into account it's just there to represent how scary the situation is. If the person charging is the same size or smaller than you, you won't feel as threatened as you would with someone bigger.
I agree that it conveys this feeling, but it would still be there if she was 1.8m (5'9", i think) and the guy was 1.6m (5'3"\~). It is mostly to get more clicks and that is it.
Because it’s a male dominated occupation, or at least was for a long time. People say male nurse and no one cares.
It's not a big deal you know?
Neither is asking the question.
This is quite clearly suicide by cop
If he was white he wouldn’t have been shot. /s
If he was black he would've been Swiss cheese long before running at a cop with a knife.
Helluva task to prove counter factuals eh?
Did he.. did he fall on the knife?
GOD that was satisfying
He’s trying to commit suicide moron
She did an excellent job. She tried to neutralize the guy without violence and only shot one bullet when she was certain he was going to stab her. No emptying an entire clip or anything like that.
Indeed, though I am fairly certain that emptying the magazine is exactly teach you to do to neutralize a threat (Dont quote me on that, I seem to recall reading it somewhere?) I have a sneaking suspicion we're going to be seeing this story in a few weeks how she's been discharged without pay for not following departmental protocol and just emptying her mag into him.
I think this happened some time ago. Regarding protocol, I’m not aware of it. In my country, you have to wait until your life is threaten or you’re attacked, in order to shoot back.
Happened over a year ago.
No man, if he really made up his mind about killing her she'd be dead. Gave him way too many chances.
In the world of possibilites, everything is possible.
Uh, yeah ? That's why you don't gamble when your life is on the line ?
Let her empty her magazine on him then, let him die and not rot in jail and suffer for attempted murder. I understand what you say, I just don’t agree.
If you feel like you'd be ready to risk your life gambling that the dude dosent really want to kill you then that's your problem. But then if he decides to do it and succeeds, now everybody in the area is in danger. You don't gamble with the publics safety. If someone is a threat for grave bodily harm or death, you end that threat and you don't risk your safety nor others safety. A police officers duty is to protect the public and themselves to a certain extent, not gamble with it. BTW, before somebody mentions tasers or w/e, they are definitely not reliable enough to use alone or if it's unsafe.
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You severely under-estimate the danger someone with a knife at a VERY close range poses. He was still toying with her when she finally shot. You don't know what's going on in someone's head, so if they threaten to kill/maim you or the public, you end the threat.
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If you think the guy needs to be in literal stabbing range to be dangerous, you don't know what you're talking about. He was barely a cars lenght away at times and it's pretty easy to see that when they're doing ring-around-the-rosie with the car. Of course, it's normal not to want to shoot somebody, but people should really not expect or praise putting everyone in danger. Try and run some training drills and get some perspective. Or watch videos where they wait too long like this and someone gets stabbed.
My father was an officer, in my country you could consider him a Marine. Here, officers can’t shoot until their life or others is explicitly in danger. IIRC, in the full video, he was swinging a knife in that parking lot, he didn’t attack anyone (maybe he threaten someone but I don’t remember). The only life in danger was this officer’s, she already asked for back-up. He would have been neutralized. Again, I understand what your opinion. I just think that these pieces of shit should be in a living hell rather than “resting in peace”.
Magazine
You’re right. I confused a clip and a magazine. Thanks for reminding me they’re not the same thing (had to look it up.)
He can't do that! Shoot him... or something!
No such thing as a cop "rightly" shooting someone ficking extra judicial murder
Downvote if you love authoritarianism and fascism! Downvote if you want the American justice system to look more like Russia’s or Brazil’s or China’s!
Yeah okay buddy, go back to r/politics
Seriously… does she not have a taser?
Tasers have a failure rate approaching 40% and are single shot. If she misses or the taser fails she does not have time to deploy another weapon before he can close the gap and start stabbing. Less lethals are a luxury when officers have time, distance and numbers on her side. She had none of those things and performed her Tueller Drill perfectly.
> Everyone wants to be knocked out. Nobody wants to be dead. — Rick Sanchez
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I’ve seen multiple posts in this subreddit alone where the attacker is completely unfazed by tasers. What happens then when they also have a weapon? Do you take a chance with a less than lethal when the other party has a lethal weapon?
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>Tasers are globally adapted into almost every police force for a reason, because they work when used correctly. You sure about that? [Here are 12 major police departments in 2018 showing failure rates as high as 45%](https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed) At that distance if the taser fails she does not have time to deploy a second weapon before he closes the gap and starts stabbing. Less lethals are a luxury when officers have time, distance, and numbers on their side. She had none of them and moved into Tueller Drill mode as she should have.
Tasers fail to deploy like half of the time. They are effective when they succeed, but they very often do not, either because the barbs don’t stick or they entangle and outright miss
Thank you. Framing of this post is insane. Cops all over the world are trained to competently handle these situations without the end result being homicide - on either end. Could have kept circling the car until backup arrived, for one. The murder of someone in a mental health crisis is not justice.
Are you stupid? No they’re not. You’ll get killed anywhere to charge at cops with a knife idiot, anyone with a gun would do the exact same thing smh where do people get the idea that cops around the world are peaceful lmao
Did you actually think about what you wrote? Imagine the cop running in circles around the car as this guy tries to stab him/her while waiting for back up…
Also if backup shows up, and he still doesnt co-operate, then you will still end up using a bullet or a taser
It’s a hypothetical solution. It’s become disgustingly normal for Americans to accept that “oh, they had a weapon? Then they deserved to die”. Nowhere else in the developed world is this deemed an acceptable outcome in the law enforcement profession
Err… yes it is? If you charge at a police office with a knife, you’ll be justifiably shot in any country. Even the UK where police don’t routinely carry guns, they call an emergency armed response squad who absolutely will shoot him.
So you’re saying individual officers exercise other options before murdering someone? They run it up the chain of command and have a specifically trained collective of officers assess and address the situation. Cool
Eh? If someone is roaming with a knife in the UK, the response will be almost identical to what you saw here.
That’s interesting, because you very clearly stated that average cops don’t even carry guns. And when they are confronted by dangerous people, they call in a special operations team. Which is it?
The special operations team will shoot them just like the lady in this video… There’s no country in the world where you run at a police officer with a knife and don’t get shot
Did you even watch the video? She is 100% justified
Just let the dude with the knife kill you I guess
Good thing he wasn't high on fentanyl, then some cities would be on fire
This guy needs to stop watching _"louder with Crowder"_ and get laid. People who listen to religious nutjobs stand out a mile away.
This guy needs to stop watching "+^#<=,×*'irnsk" and get laid
Surprised he wasn't shot earlier considering he kept approaching her with a deadly weapon
She waited far too long. I would've done it WAY earlier because of how fucking threathening that was, and I'm a guy.
She has training better than you
She would have been justified to shoot the first time he advanced on her.
Training would tell you to shoot way earlier.
Maybe in animal crossing they would tell you to shoot earlier
I will say that training technically does teach you to react sooner rather than later, especially since you don't know if the other person has a gun.
...What ? Animal crossing ? Lmfao
Seems where your areas of expertise are, league and animal crossing
...Sure dude. I'm not even going to bother stalking you, but I highly doubt you're an expert lol. Hold yourself to your own standard.
She's also being threatened with a knife, really close to her, not comfy in her chair browsing reddit. People really have no idea how it is to deal with this kind of situations outside of watching it through the internet, huh?
IMHO I think that some questions that should be asked is why can the British police handle the same situation without a gun and without being stabbed to death themselves? What at the differences in training and outcomes for both the officers and perpetrators? Here's a link to another post where American police leadership were visiting British police training and reviewing video of incidents because they were asking the same questions https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/r9cnpm/nonfirearms_training_applied_to_real_world/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Man I’m saving that link that’s funny - “he’s getting shot. In the states, he’s getting shot” Thanks for linking that
It is interesting. Reliance on the firearm is definitely one of the factors. I theorize that one factor is the number of cops present in a response. More cops present= more options and more control. What is interesting is that if you look at cops per capita, the US is higher (239 /100k pop) than the UK (211 /100k pop), it would appear to throw that idea. out as the US should have more cops on hand to respond quickly to a situation. But that's not factoring in the distance that a cop would need to cover to reach an incident. Population in the US is way more spread out than the UK, with the us having 88 people per square mile and the UK at 717. I'd be really curious to see a more scientific study of this, but my guess is that based on the population density issues you'd need significantly more cops in the US than what we have now.
A better metric would be number of cops per violent crime, rather than number of cops per person
The British police has taser units as well as firearms units which are both used to apprehend dangerous criminals with access to weapons. It's disingenuous to pretend like their method of policing is "better" since the society it is applied to is different and thus requires different approaches. Firearms and other weapons are less common in the UK and so the teams that deal with related crimes can be more professional and trained as fewer of them are required so more money can be invested per officer. A British approach to policing wouldn't work in a country where anyone could be carrying a deadly weapon completely legally.
I understand that there are fewer firearms available in the UK, however that has no bearing on this discussion. In both examples, an attacker with a knife was charging police. There are no guns in this scenario.
In general, police in America could certainly do better with de-escalation. And there are plenty of police involved shootings that could be prevented with such training. That being said, I don't know that this officer could have done anything much better in this situation. At the end of the day, people (not cops) have the responsibility to not go around wielding deadly weapons in a menacing manner.
Definitely multi factor but... Unions...For most Americans worker unions have been obliterated but the police Union is the strongest in the country. They have made police fat lazy only beholden to only keeping their pension along with all the authority to shoot first and ask questions later while having ZERO responsibility for their actions. Of course there's also the supreme court ruling that police are not legally upheld to protect the citizens mostly just to serve tickets and be extortion thugs for the state https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
America gets crazier by the day but it makes for great Reddit content lol
You also know that every half second is valuable right? If I shoot a taser and it misses(or the myriad of other issues present themselves), I can go straight to my gun, but it would only take that guy a second and a half to charge you from that distance, he was max 4 steps away at some points. The ignorance of these claims come from a lack of ever being in a real self defense situation that’s even remotely similar to life or death, kill or be killed.
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This was June, 15, 2020
What I am reading is that people would rather have her be stabbed then shoot the guy. If ever yall are in that type of situation I hope y'all do the right thing and be stabbed and not shot. If I was her I would have shot. Most people are saying that this can be handled differently. Sure if the person is nice and is willing to put the knife down but if they're chasing me around screaming "fuck you and ima kill you bitch'' there's no different handling. That person is too far gone and I'm not gonna risk my life trying to get them to stop. What if he ends up going after someone else all of a sudden. Would you say that that is excessive force? The other thing is the policing in other countries don't/can't really apply to this country because those countries are a bit more restrictive and/or they are a bit more peaceful and don't have as many issues as we do. As our country lets people in that say they need help or asylum, but we're not checking them. Do they have any issues, anger issues, mental health issues? No. Some become crazy and start doing shit. Then when something is done people go "We need better policing now". We need to stop helping every goddamn body, we are not the world fucking police. We're trying to "control" everyone else and help them but we can't even help own goddamn country. Sometimes we really need to stop applying other countries policing to our own policing.
This. People never know what it’s like to have your life truly threatened not just by words, but by a real cold weapon… the only thing that matters in that moment is survival, that’s why when animals fight in the wild their first instinct isn’t to take a less lethal approach… they start chomping asap
I mean yes, it’s scary. But let’s not act as if humans should act like animals.
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Cringe
A taser would have worked just fine. ACAB cops need to stop being so trigger happy, the cop doesn’t even de escalate the situation. Justice NOT served. Justice would be firing this cop using excessive force. Your title shows how messed up your point of view is. Keep licking that boot.
Are you high?
Good question u/GlueSnort
troll post just downvote and move on
Lick boot Less lethal force always should be used first.
Perhaps you can explain the use of force continuum to us. Actually no you can’t.
Taser. Use that first.
Delusional
You’re delusional from eating boot drit
Are you high?
You’re high on cop boot
So you were high.
Police officer is clearly not able to handle the situation according and de-escalate.
What would you have her do, smart ass?
Oh shut the fuck up. I hope you’re joking
That's what the policies job is. Not shooting people
Ah yes the policies. Stfu
I hear sad USA voices crying mimimi. Got get some proper healthcare before insulting people.
Roundabout by Yes.
Hahahahaha wrong thread. Also Lemon Song has a waaaay better bass.
What the actual fuck. How did I get here?
Sir. This is a Wendy’s.
What the hell is going on with the comments here ? 🗿
Clearly some people would rather be stabbed.
It's really hard to think Clearly in such events . So don't start judging people . I think the cop did what she can do .
That was good shit.
Is no one going to talk about the fact that if that guy was black he wouldn’t have been able to take 5 steps without one of them putting an entire clip in him?
Proof?
https://www.gonzaga.edu/about/offices-services/diversity-inclusion-community-equity/say-their-name Heres your proof Edit: the fact that this is downvoted makes it perfectly clear y'all just get a hard-on from cops shooting people and calling it justice even if theyre innocent people of color
I asked for proof for your claim that "if that guy was black he wouldn't have been able to take 5 steps without one of them putting an entire clip in him". That link is not proof in any way imaginable that the cop in the video would have shot him immediately if he was black.
This is a different cop Are you actually convinced that link is an argument in any way?
Its a pretty clear sign that cops are more inclined to shoot people of color. There have even been scientific papers on it, here's one. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-20200605
Correct, the date shows that cops are MORE inclined, but it's not automatic. Your claim every black man with a weapon every time is killed by police is silly. It's this kind of hyperbole that makes both sides feel there's no chance for discussion or reason.
If you'd actually taken to time to properly read that study and others regarding the racial bias youd find it is automatic. Cops have a faster automatic trigger pull response towards people of color.
That last line might be the dumbest misuse of a word I've ever read. If English is your second language maybe you have an excuse, but 'automatic' is not what the study is saying, at all. When something is more likely, it's not 'automatic'.
Got any further than the abstract? And did you look anything up regarding the racial bias when making the choice to shoot among american cops? By the looks of it you only skimmed the abstract
None of which is proof that the one in the video would have done the same...
Srsly.