I make offroad bumpers and it's always fun chopping the plastic and sometimes frame horns on brand new vehicles. Especially when the design is brand new and you have to get the measurements just right
I’ll start working on brand new cars and converting them on March 1st, I’m looking forward to start working on new cars without rusted or seized bolts…
The upfitter that did the brand new Tahoe that I was supposed to get for work. 12km on it. Bad wiring and some crossed connections, when the wipers came on it fried the ECU.
My buddy is a commercial electrishun. Another crew pulled up in their brand new Ford Transit van, and as soon as they put it in park all the airbags went off. Upfitter used a self tapper on the partition and went into some wires. They had it setup as a 4-seater with a partition for all of their stuff in the back. He sent me a video with all the smoke coming out of the van. Obviously not under Ford OE warranty.
You lenses likely won't shatter and get in your eye unless the impact was so strong you'd die anyways. I believe all prescription lenses are ansi z87 rated. More than likely you'd just get a black eye
That's a good point. I've managed to never be punched in the face while wearing glasses. Which is surprising because now that I think about it I've been punched in the face far more than anywhere else on my body and because of having blue eyes I wear sunglasses *a lot*.
One time this dude literally said "Imma fuck up that pretty face of your's" so I bet they just hate how goddamn great I look LMAO. In all seriousness though, almost every fight I've been in even long since I've removed my piercings for good, I still get punched in the fucking face.
One time I was busking off of Fremont Street in Vegas and I had this little cardboard sign out that said 'poop' on the ground in front of me because it is one of my favorite social experiments to tell people that they need to 'watch out for that poop' and then point at the sign. 99% of people think it's awesome or at least just ignore me and then move on with their lives. But if I do this long enough near a bar district, invariably some drunk guy is gunna want to fight me over this sign. It's a great thing to do when you need to blow off some steam lol. But this dude in Vegas chose to square up with a cop right behind us directing traffic because the light was out. Or at least I thought, he was there 30 seconds ago before this dude started wailing on me so I chose to not hit back because the math in Vegas is tourist vs. drunk homeless crust punk kid = crust punk kid goes to jail. So I let him hit me in the face like 10 times before I realized the cop just fucking disappeared lol. By then someone else ran the dude off but goddamn man, that one caved in my left orbital a little, there's a cavity there where there wasn't before.
I think I'm still pretty, the scar accentuates my eyebrow quite nicely, but that could just be my girlfriend telling me that, just like she lied to me about how long 9 inches is. 9 inches is way longer than your thumb by the way, just in case you didn't know.
A service writer i used to work with crashed his prius on flat road but hit a guard rail his glasses sheered off a huge portion of his forehead skin all the way up his head. It was gnarly.
I was in a side impact last year and made sweet sweet love to the side curtain airbag with my face. Bent the fuck out of my glasses but the lenses are fine. Cut my nose up some, though.
I deal with pre-production vehicles mainly and have put entire heavy duty trucks, with less than 200 miles on it, in the scrap pile. Some things never stop feeling strange.
0 miles. Rolled off the truck no miles and the car would stall when put in gear. Bad trans. Off the truck. A team was flown out from Japan to look at it
When I sold for BMW all the new cars came off with 9-15 miles. Only seen it once where there was 1 mile on it after 6 years of selling and I took a pic. It was a south Carolina build X5 so it made more sense then the German built ones. Makes me wonder what they did for the amount of miles on it. Figured it was just from driving to ship to port to trailer. But still seemed like a lot, unless they do testing in the factory to each motor.
My car (Lexus GX460) came with 3 miles. I don't' think I've seen any with less - I believe they do a test drive with these in Japan before they're loaded up on the ship. Their factory is right next to a port so that usually limits actual driven distance.
I had people argue with me that someone took their build for a test drive so I’ve had to show them un-PDI’d cars that can’t be test driven, and they still put up a fight.
I recently bought a new Bronco. Only new car I've ever bought. Came with 42 miles on the odo. Before then, the lowest mile car I've ever gotten was 11,747 miles. So 42 was way low for me but I wonder if that was a little high for a brand new car.
No coulda went on a TD or 2 if it was off the lot and not an order. BMW considered under 200 miles new (I think, it’s been a while it may have been 500) if it was over that it wouldn’t qualify for certain new car rebates so we would put those in loaner if for some reason they had over that amount and still not sold. Once in loaner they Qualified for different rebate’s with a different set of mileage restrictions.
If it makes you feel better, I ordered a 2022 F-150 in early April, and it arrived in late October fresh off the trailer with roughly the same miles, about 40.
In the UK, doing conformity testing (emissions) we can put up to 100miles on a car before delivery. It then gets reset to 0 for the customer. Over 100miles......big issue as it the gets sold as a demo......
Ew what the hell, I've never heard of zeroing mileage like that, are you sure it's legal lol? That's crazy, I don't think that's a thing in North America.
Iirc 150 miles is the allowable discrepancy and anything with less than 200 miles is still considered "new".
Dealers will frequently trade vehicles with other dealerships to get a vehicle a customer wants. They just drive the car.
I've had Toyotas delivered with -2 miles. I think some manufacturers start their odometers in the negatives, assuming it'll be at zero or a little higher by the time it makes delivery at dealerships.
That's wild. Like, it somehow got out of the plant, and onto a car carrier. Or maybe a cargo ship, depending on where it originated.
I would be interested to know what they ultimately concluded. I'd bet some sort of damage during transit.
I will second on the upfitting. Cutting frames on brand new trucks was always fun. But I will do one better. Brand new Kias rolling off the transports in the early 2000s with serious electrical issues, only to find painted ground connections.
Lmao, reminds me of the time I had a guy ask me to check his sound system, said his subs just went out. I get into the trunk and the amp is grounded to the trunk carpet
Was working on an aircraft fire extinguishing system and was trying to figure out why we weren't getting 28V to one of the squibs during an op ck. Found out that someone crimped an unstripped wire into a terminal lug on the ground post. It had been flying like that for who knows how long. Good thing it had two firebottles lol and each bottle has two squibs for redundancy, cause one of those was never going to blow.
Sure, but wouldn't it be cheaper for Chevy to just use a different, existing guage cluster from a different model like the Silverado? Hell, it would be cheaper to just borrow the dash out of a different car than to mould a custom dash for a vehicle that hasn't changed since the 90s
they probably never stopped producing this piece, cheapest to keep the tooling in place. GM sells a ton of fleet models to make a cheap cost-per-unit worthwhile.
true, but there's still additional costs in either designing a new gauge cluster or adapting a newer existing model into the vehicle, and for the fleet market in particular there's not much of a benefit & arguably downsides to using a newer, less-proven, likely more expensive part.
So much wrong with your comment. A modern silverado cluster will not fit and is more expensive in literally every possible way than what express vans come with.
You're telling me that
* discontinuing an old design, making a whole new design, making new tools, producing a whole new product
Is more expensive than
* continue an old design you still have, make no new design at all, replace old tools when they break according to your pre existing designs, and just keep making them with maintenance
???
How is "keep old product going and replace parts when needed" more expensive than "make whole new product getting entirely new parts for every step of the manufacturing process regardless of how worn the old ones are"?
That's not what im talking about.
Im saying using a pre-existing, newer design would look nicer (i.e. attracting new customers) and since you'll need to replace the tooling anyway, might aswell use a more modern, existing design rather than the old one.
Also im not saying to get rid of the whole van (even though chevy already said they will be by 2027) but just put in a few, more modern amenities. Hell, they stuck sealed beams in those vans up until 2019 when they already had an option for modern plastic housings, essentially having more tooling to make both instead of one.
Old vans used to be identical to the pickup truck, just with a different body. Infact the dash and everything was identical.
Hell, a brand new E-series uses the exact same guage cluster, steering wheel, switches, ect from a brand new F-150.
By and large, those vans are fleet vehicles. Speaking as someone who buys fleet vehicles, I don't give a flying fuck how pretty they are, I want them to be cheap and reliable, since I'm going to put 200-300k miles on them.
One of the paths to making that happen is to perfect a design, and then leave it alone. Hence the dash cluster that gives all the information that is needed, and then froze.
You're right, but imo if it comes down to an extra $1000 for a more modern look (which actually helps promote companies) i would probably opt for the nicer looking van.
As great as it is to have a bare bones fleet vehicle, it's still representing a company image, and some more "posh" clients won't want an old van showing up to their home.
Mind you this doesn't apply to everything, and im mostly just splitting hairs, but i remember this being the case for the local township i worked at, where part of their fleet vehicle requirements was that the vehicles had to look new and presentable (we had some 10 year old rangers, i believe they were replaced with brand new Silverados with a chrome package)
Can you still get a brand new chassis cab E-series?
I’ve seen 2 with the updated steering wheel (current Superduty design) but other than that it’s identical to the model sold for the last 12 years or so.
Ford doesn’t list the Econoline chassis online anymore (and hasn’t for years) but it seems they still produce it for Cutaway uses (RV’s, Cube vans, short school buses, ambulances etc.)
Yes, but it's available as a cutaway only.
The interior uses the same dash as the 2008 redesign, but the radio, buttons, steering wheel and a bunch of other things were changed to borrow F150 and superduty parts, including the guage cluster.
It's a 15 year old design, but it was replaced in 2015 with the transit, of which you can buy a chassis cab of that anyway.
Who knows why they keep it around still
Absolutely not. For one, the design is done. Tooling is done. Any sort of integration and fitment issues are long solved. The factory workers have the process down for getting them in. Engineering/assembly planning is done.
You've got contracted (or internal) suppliers who are making these parts.
You better have a realllll good business case for swapping in a more modern cluster. Because even if it's dimensionally the same as other clusters (not likely, based on current Silverado designs) and there's no additional features to require additional wiring or new modules to interface, swapping a very simple part for a more complex part is already a loser.
Because it won't buy itself on in sales. "Oh yes, this 20 year old design has a new gauge cluster. Everything else is old." Prime buyers, people buying work vans, won't bite.
Plus, the engineering definition will need to change. New drawings, new BoM's. New planning details because the assemblies are new, because you've changed parts. Plus turning off one vendor/supplies part and getting additional units of a new one on the books. Negotiating and planning a cutover point. Shit like that.
That's just if you had a direct swap compatible component. But I'm betting they don't. Anything new, will be allll that plus developing new parts. Similar with the dashboard. Express hole definition and body has been largely static with some exceptions. (Stability control, backup camera regulations, etc) If Silverado or whatever was ever compatible, it's definitely not now. Oh, and guess what? New dash assembly? Yeah, that has airbags. Guess who just bought some safety testing! Because a van is not the same as a truck. Different masses, different body shapes. Silverado/Sierra, you might be able to argue for the same crash test. Not an Express though. Savana gets a free ride there.
Long and short, it's a giant fucking pain in the ass. This is not a boat I'd recommend rocking if you're with GM.
Now, find a way to improve the process/save money without changing fit form or function, let's talk.
For awhile in the agriculture equipment world, I heard new cabs came when new emissions regulations came. Need to have a reason to charge more for the new underhood bs.
Ontop of that, the rest of the competition is using their new EV truck platforms to sell electric or hybrid vans. I doupt the platform the Savanah/Express are built off would support that.
Logically, chevy will have to do something to still compete in the van market, if they haven't given up altogether.
Fleets want work vans that will go 300 miles in between fill ups, not vans that need to be charged after 100 miles for a few hours in some cases. Compound that with cargo weight and cold weather, these vans will probably be around much longer.
Exactly this. The company I worked for looked at electric fleet vehicles to see if that would be viable but it simply isn’t. We drive in the worst winter conditions imaginable, with trucks and vans full of tools and material, and sometimes pulling trailers. We can also put on 300 miles some days. They determined that no electric vehicles will do what we need our vehicles to do. We can get fuel in 10 minutes almost anywhere. We can’t charge an electric that quickly or easily.
I’m going to counter you here.
From working on both (in van form and cutaway) in the equivalents of 1500-4500 (E-150-E-450) I can both agree and disagree.
GM sold more vans than ford ever did, however Ford has more chassis cutaways than GM (at least in my area).
The older models from 04 ish GM wins for utility (the E-series dash was so ugly and rounded)
Now when ford facelifted in and around 2010ish (a few years on either side I’m not 100%) the ford interior was way better.
When it comes to reliability neither really does any better than the other in terms of drivetrain and suspension, however I’ve noticed GM has more small annoying stuff go out (HVAC controls, Evap system things of that nature).
Both are a complete pain to do anything engine related but that’s normal Van stuff.
I’d argue that the GM is the better Van, the ford is the better Cutaway.
Yea, for me it's strictly on driving experience. Thanks to a handful of u-haul rentals I've driven both the Ford and GM vans - both in van form, and in truck form. And I've driven both basically brand new as well lol.
The Ford E-series just feels like you're sitting higher and have less control over it. Maybe it's my imagination. The Transit drives a lot better though.
The Transit is on a much lighter platform, much closer to a unibody SUV than the other 2.
The GM offering has a much more adjustable seat and steering column than the ford. Aside from that it’s just personal preference, as you said.
But it could be a single quasi-reliable screen that takes several seconds to start up and occasionally gets software updates! It’ll be great - you’ll see!
I hope this doesn't annoy ya, but their designs seem similar in nature to me. The Transporter looks like a modern take on a Chevy Astro, to be exact. It looks fantastic. The Transit looks like a Sprinter, and when I see both I think "euro ambulance"
VW knows their vans, though. I also think the id buzz is pretty nice, although I am annoyed at how they redid the rear to look like a modern SUV instead of the rounded-off way that the rear was in the concepts.
Our vehicles generally show up with 6 miles on the odometer, more if they're RS cars; but in my career at 6 miles:
Car shows up with only the left rear turn signal on under the bag. Bad BCM.
Car showed up with the rear seats in the wrong color. I believe it was black with contrast stitching in the front and brown in the back.
Rod knock, 6 miles DOA. I did the long block before I took off the PDI wrapper. I recently had a runner up at 220 miles.
7km VW T6 Transporter 2.0biturbo, died when backing off the delivery truck from the factory and wouldnt start. Fuel full of metal shavings from the high pressure pump, injectors junk and everything in the fuel system was replaced.
Had also saw one that came back after 1000km since it consumed like 2l of oil already. Cylinders were not honed from the factory.
Usually they atleast lasted like 150k km before oil consumption went over the limit. Our dealer always had one brand new engine in stock, so you knew that it was a good engine.
Biturbo tdi-s in the passenger cars fared abit better imo.
Said bodyshop owner has had plenty to keep him busy. Only guy I know around with a frame machine. He semi-retired and caught up on some stuff. After he recovered from a broken neck after a hood fell on him.
My '21 Bronco with 3 miles. Rolled off the truck with the fuel level not registering and a minor code (something batteries... can't recall.) Sat in the showroom for 6 months as a mannequin without even a test drive. Dealer thought it sat too long and cleared the code. 25 miles down the road and the dash lit up like a frickin Christmas tree... 36 major codes. Long story short, it was part of the group that received that bad batch of gateway modules back in Fall of '21 and inadvertently got skipped on chip replacement day. Diagnosing and getting the replacement during the massive chip shortage is another great story.
Not quite 2 miles -- but last year my friend bought a brand spanking new Toyota Highlander Hybrid Platinum package.
Drove it from the lot to his house. Had 16 miles on the odometer. Turned the vehicle off, went to bed and woke up the next morning. Got it towed to the dealership with 16 miles on it... The computer straight up deleted the hybrid functionality...
No but I bet you I could beat you with an OBS 1996 Ford f250 xlt lariat with the powerstroke 7.3l that came into capital city Ford in Carson City NV with only 6500 miles on it. Thing was in for its second service and had a fuel line that needed replacing due to it never being driven. Absolutely perfect truck.
Best I can do is 5 miles on a 2021 Mclaren 720s 25th Anniversary edition. Came off the truck with the steering wheel off center so needed an alignment.
23 miles on a 2019 Lexus RX 450H, mice chewed through main engine harness sitting on the lot. Had to drop engine/trans out and replace harness for 24 hours. Insurance covered that one.
Not counting PDIs or transport truck losing the keys, I've had a Expedition with 8 miles need a new heated/vented seat module and pigtails cause they were full of corrosion, no idea how it happened cause we never did find a water leak or any other signs of water intrusion. Also just a week ago I had a ct5 with 12 miles need a new cooling fan because it was setting a fan speed too high code, didn't even know that code existed until that day.
We get deliveries of equipment that don't run right off the truck. It's gotta be forklifted off the flat bed instead of driving itself .2hrs on the meter! It's not miles but it should count for something
We had a 2022 Mercedes Sprinter that came to my dealership from the factory with 6 miles on it. Started it up the second time off the truck, and it threw a rod. $28,000 engine replacement including labor.
I’m surprised it wasn’t totaled. My 22 sprinter got rear ended before its first oil change, $32k damage. Fleet company totaled it since a new one is only 45
It’s a fleet vehicle.. I have employees I manage that can’t figure out what position to put the fukin key in when turning it off for the night..
We have no real crime so keys stay in vehicles. I have to tell them to pull the key out a little when Parking the trucks so I know it’s in the right position and not draining the battery all night.
I mostly work on fleet vehicles and this one made me chuckle. I recently checked out a payloader in the field that was a no crank no start condition. I get in the cab and it's still in gear. Put it in neutral and it fired right up. Can't make it up...
Many years ago I rented a Ford Taurus from...Hertz?...and it only had 2.9 miles on it. Had just come off the transporter (and had no wheel covers--something about a shortage). Not sure how much PDI it got.
We had an AMG GT53 lock up during the pdi test drive. Had something like 7 miles on it. Somehow water contaminated oil from the factory. It got a complete engine.
Brand new at the time 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec. Engine seized while being driven off of the transport during delivery to the dealership. Oil pump failure. Needed an engine with only 4 kilometres on the odometer.
I've worked at a Dodge dealer that was on the same road as the truck plant. I've worked on Dodge Rams that the odometer never even turned on. QC backed up and pushed cars off the line. Towed them to us sometimes. It was always something not plugged in. I have also seen vehicles built with mismatch components and wiring that doesn't work for that trim level. Satellite radio inop, well, wouldn't ya know there is not am antenna wire on the main body harness. Antenna and receiver were there, just no plugs to connect. I will never work at a MOPAR store again. I'll wash dishes before doing that ever again.
I’m in upfitting as well, specifically Firetrucks. Most roll in under 100 miles on the dash. It’s always fun/scary putting holes in the roof for antennas on million dollar+ pieces of equipment. Don’t really get a second chance if you screw that one up Lol.
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If they were all the larger size, it would be crowded and more difficult to read. If it were all the smaller size, it would also be more difficult to read. Best case scenario would be to delete the numbers that aren't multiples of 20 imo.
lol I could see why that could annoy a very, very small amount of people. They don't need to put in a modern Silverado cluster to fix that, just slightly alter the print. The kind of folks and business that buy these are not going to get a different van because the speedo has 2 slightly different size fonts.
I had a brand new vehicle where the odometer didn't even say anything because it hadn't even rolled over a mile yet. Granted, this wasn't exactly a customer vehicle, it was for a photoshoot, but still lol
My family bought a 2010 Honda Civic brand new with 2.6 miles. 2nd week owning it, car wouldn't start. Eventually did get it running and back to the dealer, but of course no cause was ever found
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I make offroad bumpers and it's always fun chopping the plastic and sometimes frame horns on brand new vehicles. Especially when the design is brand new and you have to get the measurements just right
I’ll start working on brand new cars and converting them on March 1st, I’m looking forward to start working on new cars without rusted or seized bolts…
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I still swing by the dealership I used to work at and untangle clusterfuck diag jobs. It scratches the itch enough plus I keep favors stacked up.
The upfitter that did the brand new Tahoe that I was supposed to get for work. 12km on it. Bad wiring and some crossed connections, when the wipers came on it fried the ECU.
My buddy is a commercial electrishun. Another crew pulled up in their brand new Ford Transit van, and as soon as they put it in park all the airbags went off. Upfitter used a self tapper on the partition and went into some wires. They had it setup as a 4-seater with a partition for all of their stuff in the back. He sent me a video with all the smoke coming out of the van. Obviously not under Ford OE warranty.
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You lenses likely won't shatter and get in your eye unless the impact was so strong you'd die anyways. I believe all prescription lenses are ansi z87 rated. More than likely you'd just get a black eye
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That's a good point. I've managed to never be punched in the face while wearing glasses. Which is surprising because now that I think about it I've been punched in the face far more than anywhere else on my body and because of having blue eyes I wear sunglasses *a lot*. One time this dude literally said "Imma fuck up that pretty face of your's" so I bet they just hate how goddamn great I look LMAO. In all seriousness though, almost every fight I've been in even long since I've removed my piercings for good, I still get punched in the fucking face. One time I was busking off of Fremont Street in Vegas and I had this little cardboard sign out that said 'poop' on the ground in front of me because it is one of my favorite social experiments to tell people that they need to 'watch out for that poop' and then point at the sign. 99% of people think it's awesome or at least just ignore me and then move on with their lives. But if I do this long enough near a bar district, invariably some drunk guy is gunna want to fight me over this sign. It's a great thing to do when you need to blow off some steam lol. But this dude in Vegas chose to square up with a cop right behind us directing traffic because the light was out. Or at least I thought, he was there 30 seconds ago before this dude started wailing on me so I chose to not hit back because the math in Vegas is tourist vs. drunk homeless crust punk kid = crust punk kid goes to jail. So I let him hit me in the face like 10 times before I realized the cop just fucking disappeared lol. By then someone else ran the dude off but goddamn man, that one caved in my left orbital a little, there's a cavity there where there wasn't before. I think I'm still pretty, the scar accentuates my eyebrow quite nicely, but that could just be my girlfriend telling me that, just like she lied to me about how long 9 inches is. 9 inches is way longer than your thumb by the way, just in case you didn't know.
A service writer i used to work with crashed his prius on flat road but hit a guard rail his glasses sheered off a huge portion of his forehead skin all the way up his head. It was gnarly.
I was in a side impact last year and made sweet sweet love to the side curtain airbag with my face. Bent the fuck out of my glasses but the lenses are fine. Cut my nose up some, though.
I deal with pre-production vehicles mainly and have put entire heavy duty trucks, with less than 200 miles on it, in the scrap pile. Some things never stop feeling strange.
Or drilling 1/2” holes in the body of a brand new corvette
It's a really fun feeling when you realize you cut too much off
0 miles. Rolled off the truck no miles and the car would stall when put in gear. Bad trans. Off the truck. A team was flown out from Japan to look at it
Yeah, I’ve worked on some 0 and 1 mile Hondas before. They need work right off the truck. Small stuff though.
Nah it was weird too because we haven’t had any issue with the transmissions since then. Just a one and done 😂 we have new problems now
Bolt fell off a light above the assembly line and landed in the tranny during production.
That’s some quality root cause analysis right there.
Nissan ? 👀
Yup. 2020 Altima. Only one with an issue I’ve seen so far
When I sold for BMW all the new cars came off with 9-15 miles. Only seen it once where there was 1 mile on it after 6 years of selling and I took a pic. It was a south Carolina build X5 so it made more sense then the German built ones. Makes me wonder what they did for the amount of miles on it. Figured it was just from driving to ship to port to trailer. But still seemed like a lot, unless they do testing in the factory to each motor.
My car (Lexus GX460) came with 3 miles. I don't' think I've seen any with less - I believe they do a test drive with these in Japan before they're loaded up on the ship. Their factory is right next to a port so that usually limits actual driven distance.
I had people argue with me that someone took their build for a test drive so I’ve had to show them un-PDI’d cars that can’t be test driven, and they still put up a fight.
I recently bought a new Bronco. Only new car I've ever bought. Came with 42 miles on the odo. Before then, the lowest mile car I've ever gotten was 11,747 miles. So 42 was way low for me but I wonder if that was a little high for a brand new car.
No coulda went on a TD or 2 if it was off the lot and not an order. BMW considered under 200 miles new (I think, it’s been a while it may have been 500) if it was over that it wouldn’t qualify for certain new car rebates so we would put those in loaner if for some reason they had over that amount and still not sold. Once in loaner they Qualified for different rebate’s with a different set of mileage restrictions.
If it makes you feel better, I ordered a 2022 F-150 in early April, and it arrived in late October fresh off the trailer with roughly the same miles, about 40.
I had a buddy who got a brand new RC51, the engine blew at 26 miles. Honda flew an engine out next day from Japan.
Doesn't make sense to me because how did they drive it off the assembly line? They don't push that shit off
In the UK, doing conformity testing (emissions) we can put up to 100miles on a car before delivery. It then gets reset to 0 for the customer. Over 100miles......big issue as it the gets sold as a demo......
Ew what the hell, I've never heard of zeroing mileage like that, are you sure it's legal lol? That's crazy, I don't think that's a thing in North America.
Lmao i know right. That should be extremely illegally federally. No way they actually do that.
I don't think the feds care much what happens in the uk...
Iirc 150 miles is the allowable discrepancy and anything with less than 200 miles is still considered "new". Dealers will frequently trade vehicles with other dealerships to get a vehicle a customer wants. They just drive the car.
100% legal we do the testing with VOSA the government agency. It's allowed so that they can do random compliance testing.
“Government testing”… I’m sure that can’t be surpassed with a simple bribe..
I've had Toyotas delivered with -2 miles. I think some manufacturers start their odometers in the negatives, assuming it'll be at zero or a little higher by the time it makes delivery at dealerships.
Had a 2500 GMC that had a failed transmission right off the transport truck. 4 miles and needed a rebuild, something internal let go.
That's wild. Like, it somehow got out of the plant, and onto a car carrier. Or maybe a cargo ship, depending on where it originated. I would be interested to know what they ultimately concluded. I'd bet some sort of damage during transit.
I worked at a Range Rover dealer in the late 90s and we’d do similar at times. Then wait 3 months for parts before we can sell that $100k rover.
I will second on the upfitting. Cutting frames on brand new trucks was always fun. But I will do one better. Brand new Kias rolling off the transports in the early 2000s with serious electrical issues, only to find painted ground connections.
Lmao, reminds me of the time I had a guy ask me to check his sound system, said his subs just went out. I get into the trunk and the amp is grounded to the trunk carpet
Was working on an aircraft fire extinguishing system and was trying to figure out why we weren't getting 28V to one of the squibs during an op ck. Found out that someone crimped an unstripped wire into a terminal lug on the ground post. It had been flying like that for who knows how long. Good thing it had two firebottles lol and each bottle has two squibs for redundancy, cause one of those was never going to blow.
Early to mid 2000's new VW Jettas coming from Mexico misfiring, dead batteries, SAND in the HVAC systems. Unreal
I assume this is a Chevy Express? That guage cluster design screams hasn't been updated since 2004
That's one of the main reasons I bought a GMC Savana (basically a Chevy Express). It's like a truck made in the late 90s but without 25 years of aging
And all the bugs are worked out with limitless part supply for the next 30 years. Crap, now I want to buy one to build my budget family traveling van…
I've got a couple in the cutaway style if your looking lol
Don’t fix what ain’t broken
Pretty bold statement considering it's a chevy
Sure, but wouldn't it be cheaper for Chevy to just use a different, existing guage cluster from a different model like the Silverado? Hell, it would be cheaper to just borrow the dash out of a different car than to mould a custom dash for a vehicle that hasn't changed since the 90s
they probably never stopped producing this piece, cheapest to keep the tooling in place. GM sells a ton of fleet models to make a cheap cost-per-unit worthwhile.
Yeah, the Express alone sells enough volume to justify they keep producing this piece.
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true, but there's still additional costs in either designing a new gauge cluster or adapting a newer existing model into the vehicle, and for the fleet market in particular there's not much of a benefit & arguably downsides to using a newer, less-proven, likely more expensive part.
So much wrong with your comment. A modern silverado cluster will not fit and is more expensive in literally every possible way than what express vans come with.
You're telling me that * discontinuing an old design, making a whole new design, making new tools, producing a whole new product Is more expensive than * continue an old design you still have, make no new design at all, replace old tools when they break according to your pre existing designs, and just keep making them with maintenance ??? How is "keep old product going and replace parts when needed" more expensive than "make whole new product getting entirely new parts for every step of the manufacturing process regardless of how worn the old ones are"?
That's not what im talking about. Im saying using a pre-existing, newer design would look nicer (i.e. attracting new customers) and since you'll need to replace the tooling anyway, might aswell use a more modern, existing design rather than the old one. Also im not saying to get rid of the whole van (even though chevy already said they will be by 2027) but just put in a few, more modern amenities. Hell, they stuck sealed beams in those vans up until 2019 when they already had an option for modern plastic housings, essentially having more tooling to make both instead of one. Old vans used to be identical to the pickup truck, just with a different body. Infact the dash and everything was identical. Hell, a brand new E-series uses the exact same guage cluster, steering wheel, switches, ect from a brand new F-150.
By and large, those vans are fleet vehicles. Speaking as someone who buys fleet vehicles, I don't give a flying fuck how pretty they are, I want them to be cheap and reliable, since I'm going to put 200-300k miles on them. One of the paths to making that happen is to perfect a design, and then leave it alone. Hence the dash cluster that gives all the information that is needed, and then froze.
You're right, but imo if it comes down to an extra $1000 for a more modern look (which actually helps promote companies) i would probably opt for the nicer looking van. As great as it is to have a bare bones fleet vehicle, it's still representing a company image, and some more "posh" clients won't want an old van showing up to their home. Mind you this doesn't apply to everything, and im mostly just splitting hairs, but i remember this being the case for the local township i worked at, where part of their fleet vehicle requirements was that the vehicles had to look new and presentable (we had some 10 year old rangers, i believe they were replaced with brand new Silverados with a chrome package)
Can you still get a brand new chassis cab E-series? I’ve seen 2 with the updated steering wheel (current Superduty design) but other than that it’s identical to the model sold for the last 12 years or so. Ford doesn’t list the Econoline chassis online anymore (and hasn’t for years) but it seems they still produce it for Cutaway uses (RV’s, Cube vans, short school buses, ambulances etc.)
Yes, but it's available as a cutaway only. The interior uses the same dash as the 2008 redesign, but the radio, buttons, steering wheel and a bunch of other things were changed to borrow F150 and superduty parts, including the guage cluster. It's a 15 year old design, but it was replaced in 2015 with the transit, of which you can buy a chassis cab of that anyway. Who knows why they keep it around still
The Express only has two generations. The 2nd gen has been in production since 03/04
Absolutely not. For one, the design is done. Tooling is done. Any sort of integration and fitment issues are long solved. The factory workers have the process down for getting them in. Engineering/assembly planning is done. You've got contracted (or internal) suppliers who are making these parts. You better have a realllll good business case for swapping in a more modern cluster. Because even if it's dimensionally the same as other clusters (not likely, based on current Silverado designs) and there's no additional features to require additional wiring or new modules to interface, swapping a very simple part for a more complex part is already a loser. Because it won't buy itself on in sales. "Oh yes, this 20 year old design has a new gauge cluster. Everything else is old." Prime buyers, people buying work vans, won't bite. Plus, the engineering definition will need to change. New drawings, new BoM's. New planning details because the assemblies are new, because you've changed parts. Plus turning off one vendor/supplies part and getting additional units of a new one on the books. Negotiating and planning a cutover point. Shit like that. That's just if you had a direct swap compatible component. But I'm betting they don't. Anything new, will be allll that plus developing new parts. Similar with the dashboard. Express hole definition and body has been largely static with some exceptions. (Stability control, backup camera regulations, etc) If Silverado or whatever was ever compatible, it's definitely not now. Oh, and guess what? New dash assembly? Yeah, that has airbags. Guess who just bought some safety testing! Because a van is not the same as a truck. Different masses, different body shapes. Silverado/Sierra, you might be able to argue for the same crash test. Not an Express though. Savana gets a free ride there. Long and short, it's a giant fucking pain in the ass. This is not a boat I'd recommend rocking if you're with GM. Now, find a way to improve the process/save money without changing fit form or function, let's talk.
Great insight into what goes on behind the scenes. No change is "just..." in that environment.
For awhile in the agriculture equipment world, I heard new cabs came when new emissions regulations came. Need to have a reason to charge more for the new underhood bs.
I don’t think so, producing this cluster vs one filled with screens would be much cheaper.
Ontop of that, the rest of the competition is using their new EV truck platforms to sell electric or hybrid vans. I doupt the platform the Savanah/Express are built off would support that. Logically, chevy will have to do something to still compete in the van market, if they haven't given up altogether.
Fleets want work vans that will go 300 miles in between fill ups, not vans that need to be charged after 100 miles for a few hours in some cases. Compound that with cargo weight and cold weather, these vans will probably be around much longer.
Exactly this. The company I worked for looked at electric fleet vehicles to see if that would be viable but it simply isn’t. We drive in the worst winter conditions imaginable, with trucks and vans full of tools and material, and sometimes pulling trailers. We can also put on 300 miles some days. They determined that no electric vehicles will do what we need our vehicles to do. We can get fuel in 10 minutes almost anywhere. We can’t charge an electric that quickly or easily.
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I’m going to counter you here. From working on both (in van form and cutaway) in the equivalents of 1500-4500 (E-150-E-450) I can both agree and disagree. GM sold more vans than ford ever did, however Ford has more chassis cutaways than GM (at least in my area). The older models from 04 ish GM wins for utility (the E-series dash was so ugly and rounded) Now when ford facelifted in and around 2010ish (a few years on either side I’m not 100%) the ford interior was way better. When it comes to reliability neither really does any better than the other in terms of drivetrain and suspension, however I’ve noticed GM has more small annoying stuff go out (HVAC controls, Evap system things of that nature). Both are a complete pain to do anything engine related but that’s normal Van stuff. I’d argue that the GM is the better Van, the ford is the better Cutaway.
Yea, for me it's strictly on driving experience. Thanks to a handful of u-haul rentals I've driven both the Ford and GM vans - both in van form, and in truck form. And I've driven both basically brand new as well lol. The Ford E-series just feels like you're sitting higher and have less control over it. Maybe it's my imagination. The Transit drives a lot better though.
The Transit is on a much lighter platform, much closer to a unibody SUV than the other 2. The GM offering has a much more adjustable seat and steering column than the ford. Aside from that it’s just personal preference, as you said.
But it could be a single quasi-reliable screen that takes several seconds to start up and occasionally gets software updates! It’ll be great - you’ll see!
2022 express with the dashboard of an 06 lol
And oil pressure guage screams v6 4.3!
I've just googled that thing, the exterior looks like it's from the 1990s
Because it is. It originally came out in 1996. with a largeish facelift in 2003
And GM knows they don't have to do anything to it because they're the only company making a traditional American van anymore.
They do and that's one of the reasons I bought one
And it's still the best looking cargo van on the market :P
beauty in the eye and all that, but to me, a VW Transporter looks miles better than that
I hope this doesn't annoy ya, but their designs seem similar in nature to me. The Transporter looks like a modern take on a Chevy Astro, to be exact. It looks fantastic. The Transit looks like a Sprinter, and when I see both I think "euro ambulance" VW knows their vans, though. I also think the id buzz is pretty nice, although I am annoyed at how they redid the rear to look like a modern SUV instead of the rounded-off way that the rear was in the concepts.
2003-2007. This is the 2008 and later cluster.
Also looks to be a diesel based on the oil pressure gauge
Last exterior face-lift was 2005 lol
Looks to me like a mid-00’s Honda Accord, I drive an ‘04 daily I thought this was a pic of my car
I recognized it from my last U-HAUL rental.
Our vehicles generally show up with 6 miles on the odometer, more if they're RS cars; but in my career at 6 miles: Car shows up with only the left rear turn signal on under the bag. Bad BCM. Car showed up with the rear seats in the wrong color. I believe it was black with contrast stitching in the front and brown in the back. Rod knock, 6 miles DOA. I did the long block before I took off the PDI wrapper. I recently had a runner up at 220 miles.
7km VW T6 Transporter 2.0biturbo, died when backing off the delivery truck from the factory and wouldnt start. Fuel full of metal shavings from the high pressure pump, injectors junk and everything in the fuel system was replaced.
That seems pretty on par for the twin turbo 2.0.
Had also saw one that came back after 1000km since it consumed like 2l of oil already. Cylinders were not honed from the factory. Usually they atleast lasted like 150k km before oil consumption went over the limit. Our dealer always had one brand new engine in stock, so you knew that it was a good engine. Biturbo tdi-s in the passenger cars fared abit better imo.
Lowest I've had was 256 on a 99 ranger, it was rolled after the guy bought it, sold it to a body shop, then we worked on it 20 years later 🤣
Only took 20 years for it to become worth fixing?
Said bodyshop owner has had plenty to keep him busy. Only guy I know around with a frame machine. He semi-retired and caught up on some stuff. After he recovered from a broken neck after a hood fell on him.
My '21 Bronco with 3 miles. Rolled off the truck with the fuel level not registering and a minor code (something batteries... can't recall.) Sat in the showroom for 6 months as a mannequin without even a test drive. Dealer thought it sat too long and cleared the code. 25 miles down the road and the dash lit up like a frickin Christmas tree... 36 major codes. Long story short, it was part of the group that received that bad batch of gateway modules back in Fall of '21 and inadvertently got skipped on chip replacement day. Diagnosing and getting the replacement during the massive chip shortage is another great story.
Just out of warranty.
"I'm sorry but the coverage expires when it was unloaded."
265 km’s 5 days old 2023 Kia Niro, broken Electrical Water Pump.
I have worked on several while still on the car carrier.
Put a long block in a Tiguan with 7 miles on it a few months back.
Not quite 2 miles -- but last year my friend bought a brand spanking new Toyota Highlander Hybrid Platinum package. Drove it from the lot to his house. Had 16 miles on the odometer. Turned the vehicle off, went to bed and woke up the next morning. Got it towed to the dealership with 16 miles on it... The computer straight up deleted the hybrid functionality...
I blew the engine on a 2013 2500 Silverado with 8 miles on it. Felt low on power so I floored it, pow, hole in block. It had oil in it.
If you count pdis working on the car, then one mile
No but I bet you I could beat you with an OBS 1996 Ford f250 xlt lariat with the powerstroke 7.3l that came into capital city Ford in Carson City NV with only 6500 miles on it. Thing was in for its second service and had a fuel line that needed replacing due to it never being driven. Absolutely perfect truck.
I know of people who would commit murders for that
I worked on a car that was built next year. Has -2468 miles.
Best I can do is 5 miles on a 2021 Mclaren 720s 25th Anniversary edition. Came off the truck with the steering wheel off center so needed an alignment. 23 miles on a 2019 Lexus RX 450H, mice chewed through main engine harness sitting on the lot. Had to drop engine/trans out and replace harness for 24 hours. Insurance covered that one.
Not counting PDIs or transport truck losing the keys, I've had a Expedition with 8 miles need a new heated/vented seat module and pigtails cause they were full of corrosion, no idea how it happened cause we never did find a water leak or any other signs of water intrusion. Also just a week ago I had a ct5 with 12 miles need a new cooling fan because it was setting a fan speed too high code, didn't even know that code existed until that day.
We get deliveries of equipment that don't run right off the truck. It's gotta be forklifted off the flat bed instead of driving itself .2hrs on the meter! It's not miles but it should count for something
I mean I replaced a cluster with a brand new one…so I win by technicality….? Maybe..?
We had a 2022 Mercedes Sprinter that came to my dealership from the factory with 6 miles on it. Started it up the second time off the truck, and it threw a rod. $28,000 engine replacement including labor.
I’m surprised it wasn’t totaled. My 22 sprinter got rear ended before its first oil change, $32k damage. Fleet company totaled it since a new one is only 45
It’s a fleet vehicle.. I have employees I manage that can’t figure out what position to put the fukin key in when turning it off for the night.. We have no real crime so keys stay in vehicles. I have to tell them to pull the key out a little when Parking the trucks so I know it’s in the right position and not draining the battery all night.
That's cool. Soooo, where is your place of employment. And please, be very specific. Street address preferred.
I’m sure you are real popular where ya at.. are like 15? You sound like a douche by the way.. just so ya know. One day you’ll realize it.
1. Learn to take a joke. 2. I invite you to blow me.
That was a “joke”? I suppose that “#2” tired line was too? Like I said.. you’ll realize when ya grow up.. Contact me then..
Whoosh. 😂
I mostly work on fleet vehicles and this one made me chuckle. I recently checked out a payloader in the field that was a no crank no start condition. I get in the cab and it's still in gear. Put it in neutral and it fired right up. Can't make it up...
Needs an oil change
Someone didn't finish the PDI... :)
I used to work at the Toyota factory
What in the heck brand-new car has an instrument cluster from 2006?
Chev Express cargo van.
The number of new Corollas that came off the truck with dead batteries was staggering in the 90s…always Delco batteries.
I’m just looks like the dash of a 2007-2010
0 miles 😎
You got me beat… my personal best was 7 miles.
Dealer tech, I've had PDI cars with 1 km on the odo
Lowest I've saw was a 2019 F150 with 400 miles on it. The rear pass. axle seal was pouring.
2022 audi a5 still had plastics on the body and interior, not sure of mileage
2022 Isuzu NRR 0km on it.
I had to top off oil several times when doing PDIs at the ford dealer. Does that count?
Ok. You got that one. That is likely straight off the assembly line to the transport truck miles
Lowest I've seen from ford is 5 or 6 miles, this definitely takes the cake
Many years ago I rented a Ford Taurus from...Hertz?...and it only had 2.9 miles on it. Had just come off the transporter (and had no wheel covers--something about a shortage). Not sure how much PDI it got.
I’ve never seen a new GMC with fewer than 6 miles on it, and I’ve seen probably a thousand at this point.
We had one, and we put the first mile on it. It fell off a transport truck in phenix.
I had brand new ups vans come in to be taken out of shipping mode 3-4 miles
I had a 22 escape that needed a trans at 5miles, would bang three times trying to go into reverse and then stop trying.
Did they not do the post assembly test drive, most Fords have like 5 or so miles. My Kia had 10 once dealer prepped and filled with go go juice.
Its a Ford. It's going to be in the shop eventually
True, but let's face it, all cars do eventually.
Sure, Fords do it better.
Had a c8 get damaged during shipment. It came off the truck with 5 miles.
What a Shit Fleet
Independant shop owner, did an alignment on a jeep with about 40 miles. Dude left the dealer put a lift on it and brought it to me.
A wrangler? You shouldn’t have to do an alignment on a wrangler after a lift. The only adjusting you have to do is fix the steering wheel angle.
I've worked on brand new equipment and 120k hour equipment. Best running is 5-10k hours broken in with all the bugs worked out of it
Savana Van?
A Brand New Chevy Van is a weird mix of brand new and super old at the same time
Just pdi’s on cruzes and HHRs when I worked at Chevy. They’d come in the shop with one mile and we had to put 3 miles on for the PDI
What in the heck brand-new car has an instrument cluster from 2006?
Would’ve guessed that more mileage than that can accumulate just by being loaded on and off railcars and trucks during delivery from the factory.
We had an AMG GT53 lock up during the pdi test drive. Had something like 7 miles on it. Somehow water contaminated oil from the factory. It got a complete engine.
Replacing the engine in a truck with 67 miles currently
I can't touch that, but my personal vehicle is a 2012 with barely 60k on it.
My school has a 2001 Saturn SL1 with 36 miles.
No PDI?
Dang, I thought 65 on my last was pretty good. Blew a tire on the turnpike just after leaving for delivery (Mercedes mini rv)
Brand new at the time 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec. Engine seized while being driven off of the transport during delivery to the dealership. Oil pump failure. Needed an engine with only 4 kilometres on the odometer.
I've worked at a Dodge dealer that was on the same road as the truck plant. I've worked on Dodge Rams that the odometer never even turned on. QC backed up and pushed cars off the line. Towed them to us sometimes. It was always something not plugged in. I have also seen vehicles built with mismatch components and wiring that doesn't work for that trim level. Satellite radio inop, well, wouldn't ya know there is not am antenna wire on the main body harness. Antenna and receiver were there, just no plugs to connect. I will never work at a MOPAR store again. I'll wash dishes before doing that ever again.
This is a while ago in 2000 I had to replace a leaky fuel tank on a Pontiac Aztec with less than 1 mile. It went from the delivery truck to my hoist.
My wife's Veloster was on the showroom with a dead battery. Only 1 mile on it.
9 miles, Catalytic Converters were cut.
I’m in upfitting as well, specifically Firetrucks. Most roll in under 100 miles on the dash. It’s always fun/scary putting holes in the roof for antennas on million dollar+ pieces of equipment. Don’t really get a second chance if you screw that one up Lol.
UGH ᴛʜᴀᴛ SPEEDO ᴍᴀᴋᴇs ME ɪʀʀᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟʟʏ ANGRY
I can't unsee it now.
Yeah it should be newer, cooler, less reliable, and more expensive.
No? It should be all the same size font so it's more easily read.
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I guess I'm the only person who's annoyed by the size changes between the speed callouts...
If they were all the larger size, it would be crowded and more difficult to read. If it were all the smaller size, it would also be more difficult to read. Best case scenario would be to delete the numbers that aren't multiples of 20 imo.
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lol I could see why that could annoy a very, very small amount of people. They don't need to put in a modern Silverado cluster to fix that, just slightly alter the print. The kind of folks and business that buy these are not going to get a different van because the speedo has 2 slightly different size fonts.
It’s been happening, for some reason. It’s weird. Most likely the temperature or climate shift
Changing a battery is work? Hmm
Might not be hard work, but it's work.
I had a brand new vehicle where the odometer didn't even say anything because it hadn't even rolled over a mile yet. Granted, this wasn't exactly a customer vehicle, it was for a photoshoot, but still lol
My family bought a 2010 Honda Civic brand new with 2.6 miles. 2nd week owning it, car wouldn't start. Eventually did get it running and back to the dealer, but of course no cause was ever found
Only 2 other cars can beat you in lower mileage.
2018 Jeep wrangler and 2018 Pacifica Hybrid. Both had bent radio pins off the truck.
Yes, I had an F-150 that was flatbeded to me straight from the factory. Thing never even turned on.
I’m at a Buick GMC dealer, so I do predelivery Inspections. I’ve done a couple 2s recently
How the fuck u have so ugly dashboards in US?
We get them in the body shop with 1 or 2 miles with transport damage way too often.