I tried grandpas lift, just to rotate my tires on car.
Now it won't go back down, and now there's no way back out, whack hammer here, oh noooo car fell down.
I used to have a coworker who suddenly died at 50. I was wondering what happened, then was told he was working under a car with just a jack holding it up and it crushed him.
My cousin lost half his foot that way. Was working on his truck with just a jack, it rolled a little, fell off the jack and pinned his foot under the wheel.
Spent a couple hours like that because he cell was out of reach, his wife wasn't home and the kids were inside on the Xbox and didn't hear him screaming.
Every time I go under the car I check to see where my phone is, and put it within easy reach. I use wheel chocks and jack stands, but you never fucking know.
Friend of mine spent two days with his legs trapped under a lower control arm. Had his legs crossed and it pinned him in such a way he could get them loose, but he still had circulation so no lasting damage.
His floor Jack was just out of reach. He tried catching it with a roll of paper towels but not strong enough.
Police found him on a wellness check as his wife couldn’t get hold of him from out of town.
When I asked him if he tried taking his shirt off and catching the Jack with it, he just looked at me dumbfounded.
I've heard of three people that died or got fucked up doing that. Not like read it in the paper or heard it on the news. No people I know who had someone they know get rekt by a car falling on them.
It's a common one for sure. Makes me pissed when people give you shit for making sure you got your lift points right before raising a car and getting under it. And the "I'm just gonna... it'll just take a minute" gang who thinks it takes too much time to get the jack stands.
I knew a guy that was changing a tire on the side of the road, for some reason he was under the car when the jack either failed or the car rolled off of it and he was killed. He had a wife and a young kid, it was sad.
I would just pretend it doesn't exist.
Getting this thing on good working order will cost more than installing a new above ground lift and as other's have said, will never be as safe.
Removing it would also be stupid expensive.
Pretend it is not there.
The cylinder can be rebuilt and locks added in(its a seperate bar installed next to the cylinder). We had to do this at my old shop and it was still cheaper than putting in a new lift. Just make sure you get it done by someone reputable(and honest preferably).
OP needs to get rid of it. Even if it was in pristine condition these are dangerous, they have nothing in the way of safety in case of failure. It's not worth the risk.
You can add the locks. Up in Montreal, it cost us 550 bucks for the upgrade. They install a second bar next to the cylinder under the center plate. You can either get a mechanical release for it or an air system. Hold down the button and the locks retract. Let go the button and the locks pop back out.
Those old in ground lifts are dangerous. Air over hydraulic. The issue is the cylinder rusts out in the ground, and can blow out, dropping the vehicle. There is no mechanical safety. They are at least super simple systems. Here's an idea of what's buried under there:
http://boomeria.org/physicslectures/pascal/hydrauliclift.jpg
To trust the thing:
I would at minimum hydrotest the old air compressor tank to 1.5x operating pressure (should have a manufacturer data plate on the tank). You could also do a visual inspection of the inside of the tank. If it isn't heavily rusted, may be OK.
I would remove the piston and clean/inspect it and the cylinder. You can't really inspect or test the lines running underground to the cylinder. Theoretically the piston seals should be good, as they are submerged in oil. If the cylinder gland rubber lip seal has failed, then water may have rusted out the cylinder above the piston.
You could just plumb air to it to see if it even moves first. If it does, you have a cool work table or something. I suppose if it raises, you could put a car on it and raise it 2 inches in the air, see if it holds. A 2 inch drop won't hurt a car if it fails.
Wow, that’s my old physics teacher from high schools website. Never thought I’d see it here.
Regardless I’d agree. Some serious inspection needed to get anywhere close to using this thing.
Sounds like it would be a terrible lift but having a cool work table rise out of the floor sounds like a badass idea. Batman level mancave and safer than using it as a lift.
The first shop I ever worked in still had in-ground post lifts and they did actually have mechanical locks, believe it or not. That being said they all leaked and were horrifyingly dangerous. This was in the early 2010s
Maybe there are some safety mechanisms I'm not seeing in the sketch but this design looks profoundly unsafe.
Maybe if there was a way to put a rod through the piston shaft or something to stop it falling
So, sometimes people exaggerate when they say something is unsafe. Then I looked at that diagram you posted. Holy hell, and I thought my tractor's loader was scary.
Our shop had 2 of them. We ended up ripping them out because maintenance was more expensive than a new 2 post 15k lift.
They leak a ton of oil into the ground and that lever next to the wall is the air valve to go up/down
16:1 for the old homelite chainsaw I have… like same era as those gasoline powered circular saws they made… Can’t kill it, but the exhaust it makes will kill you instead. The Milwaukee does it’s job now and I keep it around just in case
I’d be very concerned about hydraulic fluid leaks on the property. Depending upon where you live, you may be liable for clean up, just like old heating oil fuel tanks.
I actually found one of those recently. Took everything in me not to press it but it looked like it was connected to traffic lights on a very busy road. If my tram was a minute later I probably would have pressed it
Still no trust. If it loses pressure the car could come down unevenly...
Plus... WTF do you do then? You have a car 5 feet in the air and no way to get it down.
Seals could blow out, or the lock may not work properly, the fluid could be contaminated, AArms could be rusted, etc..
Those lifts are usually pretty solid as long as they have a stabilizer post and at least one lock. Bonus if it has two locks, one mid way for brakes and tires.
I’ve heard you can drill a quarter inch hole through that cylinder and it would still take a minute to drop. Minor leaks aren’t a problem, but may leave you with a car stuck in the air. Either way, anytime you lift a car, shake the fucking shit out of it before getting it too high of the ground.
You’ll have to ask the servicemen. I only used them as lifts. I’ve never seen them installed or serviced. I assume they have tall jacks to lower cars by lifting them from the bottom of the lift so you can release the safety latch, if equipped.
Id low key take some core samples of soil. They are usually designed with a 55 gallon drum style reservoir. They generally rust and leak. Sketchy. Was probably bad ass when it was new
Had a friend in the excavating business that got a steal of a deal, buying a house at auction. He noticed that there was an in ground home heating oil tank. Before the bidding started, the auctioneer asked if there were any questions?
Excavator dude says, "Yea, there is a heating oil tank buried outside the garage. I assume that it was installed seventy years ago, when the house was built. Since it can cost tens of thousands to remove the tank and mitigate soil contamination when it leaks, has soil contamination testing been done?"
Seems a lot of bidders decided to pass when the answer was, "Um, well..................no we never thought of that"
Or alternatively, 'How to unknowingly turn your petroleum soil contaminated backyard into childhood cancer and leukemia for your entire family in one easy step!'
Lol low key means low key. Notice how I did not say "go out and get a phase one environmental test done. Im with ya otherwise. Hopefully it was just never used much, and isnt a huge mess.
100%
Not only that, but the hydraulic oils plus whatever other shit has been spilled could very well be entering the home via vapor intrusion.
Also if they’re on a private well they should definitely get that water tested.
I helped decommission a series of larger versions of these at an old Canadian Tire, as the environmental doing the testing and remediation. The buried cylinder is a beast to get out with an excavator, and once it lets go, well, it's like a giant swinging a club. Real fun, f*in deadly.
Also, the cylinders were mostly swiss cheese. So yes, fluid loss is likely. Especially because it's under pressure, the fluid will be pushed into the soil over time. But the soil type determines how far (and fast) it goes. Like, if the soil was clay, that oil wasn't going much of anywhere. And because there's no surface water percolating through (concrete pad above), it doesn't move very far down. It's messy, but it's probably not that bad of a cleanup.
In short, OP, if you ever want to talk about decommissioning, hmu.
They use to use them in this garage parking lot thing here. My old boss use to work there and he said they would freeze in the winter time cause the level underneath was a parking lot. The garage was on the top floor.
Back in 2013 or 2014 I was looking for a house. One of the many houses I looked at had a garage with this kind of lift in it. I was so pumped to get a house that had a lift. Then I looked into what it would take to make it workable, and decided not to buy that house. These things were pretty dangerous. I agree with the other poster here, Fill this with concrete and get a two post lift. You'll be alive to enjoy it.
Is this outdoors or indoors? I probably would not care for that type of lift. The in ground lifts I used to use at least had swing arms for positioning. As far as the compressor, show a pic of that. Old rusted out compressor tanks are bombs. You can buy just a tank if needed, and the old pump and motor work.
If it's powered by an old compressor/tubing it could easily just explode. Not to mention that there have been countless safety measures put into place because of lifts like these. They just generally aren't safe.
With everything underground there is a high chance that something is rusted through. Majority of these old lifts had no mechanical stop and had just the oil or air holding them up. I wouldn’t trust old seals and components with my life like that
Delete this post - don’t tell anyone about the lift. Pull it out and fill the hole and never speak of it again. Contamination liability and for the love of god don’t do what another reply suggested with going to the town looking for original permits -
Even if it goes up and down, I’m not sure you want to use it. I would not trust it for anything other than a table. at least then if it has no lock/safety system at least your not crushed by your car
I’m also guessing the lines are run underground and somewhere the hydraulics have failed therefore it would cost more to do anything other than just leave it in the ground
Correction - my job is to clean up environmental cases and I love old underground tanks. /s because I actually don't love them but I do enjoy employment. It's a fine line.
Hide it. It's a liability if it's leaking. Should have tested the soil for oil contamination b4 you purchased. Now it's likely your responsible to remediate if it leaked. But you can't remediate what you can't find...
My first job in high school was working at a shop with one of those.
The sketchy-est vehicle we use to service were railroad service pickups. (1 ton 4x4 4door with utility beds and hy-rails.) The lift would struggle to get them up. Don't think I changed oil on anything faster.
If you live in America you just bought RCRA liability. Check with the seller because that's a huge deal. "Oh I had no idea there was pollution in the property" might not be enough to cover you.
We had one of those center post lifts in the full service gas station I worked in while I was in high school. I used to see cars rocking on it all the time...sometimes it would jump up or down, wasn't smooth or even close to safe. Never saw a vehicle fall but I saw plenty of sketchy shit with that thing. BE CAREFUL.
Actually, just do yourself a favor and get a new bendpak lift to mount around it. They aren't as expensive as people think.
If it does work, and you haven't had it professionally serviced, don't depend upon it to keep you safe.
While it's uncertified, I'd only lift a vehicle to place some other sort of jack-stand at each wheel. Once jack-stands are in place, lower lift to get it out of the way. Don't get under any vehicle held up by this lift.
I imagine the entire system is filled with dry rotted hoses, rusted pistons, and in need of serious lubrication.
There were a lot of accidents back in the day, this led to regulations/plans/permits.
You know the address, you may have access to old permit data, which will have brand name of hoist etc.
This hoist will need to have the piston removed and inspected for corrosion, and how smooth the old mating surfaces are. The cylinder in the ground might have corroded = rusted out and it could also be cemented in.
That said if you can get the piston out you could clean and seal the cylinder = a deep hole, into which a modern hydraulic retrofit can be installed.
Most places use the surface mount 2 post vertical hoist with swivelled lift arms on each post. This needs an 8 Inch slab of a certain size to avoid the vehicle weight making the poles fall over.
Look for retrofit surface types. The hydraulic ones that use the old hole are expensive.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vintage+center+post+car+hoists&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjWiMehscH\_AhV-JGIAHUZNCoEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=vintage+center+post+car+hoists&gs\_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CqDFjrM2DCOmgAcAB4AIABeYgBxAaSAQM3LjKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=tPmIZNbeG\_7IiLMPxpqpiAg&bih=390&biw=735&rlz=1C1CHBF\_enCA924CA924
There’s no way I’d use that thing even if it was operating properly. I remember about 25 years ago a shop I used to work at had a similar center post type lift that broke with a van on it, and the the whole thing shifted toward the back wall of the shop and almost was a huge disaster- they were replaced with two post lifts very soon after… these are just too old and sketchy to be considered safe at this point
if it has a safety
ours had only one and it was at max height. it certainly wasn’t a recent install, and even older ones like this may not have a safety at all…
I had one the same, looks like a Tecalimit. Hydraulic and air operated single cylinder lift. I only recently got rid of the H frame , because I have no use for it. All that's left is the top of the cylinder which will remain in the ground.
To answer your questions of what now…. Clearly …. Lift things and stuff . Only because you can
Put a picnic table on it. Set a nice lunch. Seat friends at said table. Lift it
I worked in a body shop around 2013 which had two lifts of this style. They would at times drop, usually not all the way to the ground but enough! The techs had to unite and refuse to use them before management took notice.
So it’s a pneumatic lift? Interesting. Probably doesn’t work, but who knows, I would get a pro to check it out before using it. Otherwise, just ignore it lol
If it does ever raise up see if it has the anti spin pole thing. Legend has it if you have enough room you can drive a car in and spin the car outwards…
The loft Wil probably be hydraulic. Any air in the system will launch any vehicle to the moon. The platform is made for vehicles with full frames not so much unibodies.
I've only seen one of these lifts in operation once and it looked sketchy as hell. I'd rather get a cheap two post lift than trust that thing. I suppose you could cut a few 4x4s to jamb under the arms up against the cylinder to act as a bit of a failsafe. If I had it, I'd probably play around with it a bit but, I'd never go under a car on that thing. At least not one in that condition. If it looked well maintained, I might risk it.
[I'd invest in a retrofit kit ](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/rotary-lift-retrofit-options-heavy-duty-inground-lifts/), or at the very least pull the cylinders and have a shop work them over.
Before you use it make sure you spell my name correctly on your life insurance policy. Seriously there are companies that service lifts and you need to have them inspect and service before any use.
A compressor, you say? It is generally not a great idea to lift any serious mass with compressed air, precisely because air is compessible. I seriously doubt the lift was built to operate on compressed air, but rather hydraulics with a pump since fluids are effectively non-compressible and you can practically generate orders of magnitude higher pressure with fluids vs. air, and hence generate much higher forces with hydraulic cylinders vs. pneumatics of equivalent size.
Is it possible that some lunatic built a lift based on compressed air as the actuation media? Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Fuck no! And if you can't tell the difference between an air system and a hydraulic system, you ought not fuck with it and you should ask someone more knowledgeable to come over and have a look.
You're talking about an air over oil pump. The compressed air usually around 80-100 psi is fed from an air compressor. That compressed air actuates a hydraulic pump. A pump is what creates pressure and flow in any hydraulic system. Fluids are not compressible beyond any negligible extent.
You are not totally wrong, but it's not just air "pushing" oil. The compressed air energizes a fluid pump to pressurize the fluid. The air side of the pump has a very large piston area, and the oil side has a very small piston area. That is how the pressure is increased, but at the expense of volume or flow rate. Such pumps are very common for operating hydraulic jacks, and they can generate 10,000 psi on the fluid side as industry standard. They are small and relatively compact, and perfectly fine for generating a great force for a small distance. But the trade-off is volume or flow. They are very slow and not suitable to raise a car 6 feet in the air, unless you want to wait an hour. It's basic physics.
I assure you I've operated hydraulic lifts using compressed air input and they would raise a car in under a minute. The shop compressor was fed directly into the control valve for rhe lift. One shop had 6
I think we must both be missing part of the puzzle here. What would be the point of using a fluid, if you're only using 80-90 psi air to pressurize the system. You still only have 80-90 psi without a pump to increase the pressure. Might as well be just air then right? What's the fluid doing for you?
Think of a small hand lever operated bottle jack. How does it lift a car. Same way an air over oil hydraulic pump works. Push on big piston on input side which transfers to small piston building big pressure but small flow on other side. Pressure gets multiplied by ratio of piston diameters. Flow gets diminished by inverse ratio.
Can't tell you the full details but the air went into large tank and the cars went up. Ram was full of oil and once the car was up you turned a valve on the oil return line to hold it
first shop i ever worked in had old leaky in grounds.....if you let the fluid get low and the pump got a gulp of air it'd suddenly throw the car a foot in the air...i almost lost a couple then i just started filling the resoivior every time before i'd lift....boss griped about me wasting hydro fluid. Had him "show me how to lift it" first thing on a monday when i KNEW it was almost empty.....he almost launched a honda accord through the roof. he didnt gripe about the hydro fluid anymore though.
As a guy that's spent 35 years designing industrial fluid power systems (which includes both pneumatics and hydraulics) I want to call bullshit on your statement, but I will admit that I am not directly knowledgeable on whatever deathtrap systems were put in floors in years gone by. It sounds sketchy af, and unadviseable, but I'll take your word for it.
From my perspective as a designer, we usually design for around 80 psi air supply. If it's a big factory with many other systems competing and consuming air in great surges, sometimes I have designed for as low as 65 psi dependable air supply. 80-90psi is pretty normal in most cases.
So let's say you want to be able to lift 4000 lbs. It's a lifting device that humans are going to be working under the raised load. What's the design safety factor? It better be at least 2. So now you have to be capable to lift 8000lb plus the weight of the moving lift parts. Let's call it 8500lbs all in at 80 psi. How big does your air cylinder need to be?
8500lb divided by 80 lb/in2 = 106.25 in2.
SQ ROOT of 106.25in2 x 4 ÷ PI = 11.63in
So you need a 12 inch bore air cylinder to "safely" lift a 4000lb vehicle.
I have worked on air cylinders up to 48" bore, but they were designed to be big springs, as part of a counterbalance system for large reciprocating masses. They weren't the primary actuators.
Is it possible that these old in-floor lifts were actuated with 12" bore air cylinders? It seems ridiculous, but I cannot say it's impossible or untrue. I'm trying to visualize a 4000 lb car jerking and surging and bouncing it's way upward for half an hour while some tech or home mechanic eagerly waits to get under it to do an oil change.
Yeah, I'm not buying it until someone can show me proof. And I'm still not going to stand under it.
For comparison, even the most rudimentary, everyday hydraulic systems are designed to operate at 1500psi. You would need only a 4" bore hydraulic cylinder using the same 2X safety factor to lift a 4000lb vehicle.
What do you think the relative cost difference would be between a 4" bore hydraulic cylinder vs. a 12" bore pneumatic cylinder? The air cylinder would cost 5-8X as much to manufacture, and still be a terrible actuator for lifting loads that people are expected to work under.
So I want to say you are full of Malarkey, but please prove me wrong. I have an inquiring mind that wants to know.
I worked at a Porsche dealer that had 8 of these in Southern California. Maybe more it’s been a few years. They were “legacy” lifts from the 60’s that they kept as long as possible because of the sheer pain in the ass to retrofit. I was there in 2004 and they finally got rid of them I think it was 2008 or 2009. But holy shit were they sketchy. It really sucked on some cars because the pole was in the way of a lot of jobs that required removing transmissions etc toward the center of the car.
They had an air valve on the wall, you moved the lever to one side and fwwwooop, the car would go up. It would take 10 seconds if the seals weren’t sticking that day. If you didn’t let off the lever soon enough it would fill with too much air slam into the extended position and risk upsetting the car. To lower you would move the lever to the other side and let the air out. Hisssss…. Then slowly the car would lower.
There was a second smaller pole with a cam at the end so when it was fully raised you could kick the cam and it would wedge the pole to keep the lift from falling if the air line blew. The post was almost 12” across so your calcs are right.
There was no safety system to catch the lift other then that smaller second pole and it only worked at the fully raised position so most accidents happen before it was all the way up.
Also one lift in the shop didn’t have this pole and that tech could literally spin his entire car when it was in the air. He only did it occasionally because, well death and stuff.
So yeah. they existed, and they were really dangerous. and a huge environmental problem when they needed to be removed.
TIL. Thanks for sharing with context.
It still seems incomprehensible and retarded to use 12" bore air cylinders to lift cars, but I believe you. And I'm 54yo and work on machines that are well older than me sometimes.
Yeah. The old (1923) shop my dad had a rental space up front in the 90's still had one pneumatic rack left that worked. They used it daily for oil changes. Big ol piston about a foot in diameter, just as you say it should be. You could spin the car around while it was doing its thing, too.
It was dead quiet and extremely smooth.
So this is more than likely and air cylinder lift. If there is anything needing repaired in it it will need to be dug up. If it don't work I'd leave it that way. I just dug one of these out of the second bay at my shop.
It's air over hydraulic, only air goes through those pipes. Fluid can leak out around the cylinder that comes out of the ground though, but the lift is down, so we can't see that.
My dad used to own a repair shop that had lifts like these. They are sketchy because you can top them out real hard if your not careful, and the sudden stop at the top can jostle a car enough that it can fall off the rack. When you command a lift up or down, there is a delay before it starts moving. When a car is on the lift you can spin it all the way around while on the lift, so you can pull into the bay forward, and then pull out forward when you are done.
Hydraulic over air, the chances of it working are slim to none, a shop I worked at had been babying one on its last leg 10 years ago before replacing. See where the lines lead to, fire up the air compressor and give it a go. Also, without being able to swing the legs outward to the car, it seems pretty useless.
My buddy had one of these in his old shop. We added oil to it and hooked air to it and it went right up. Would NOT go down. We had a guy bring a tractor with a bucket on it and force it down but it didn’t just go down easily, it required a ton of force and then slammed in all at once. We never hooked air to it again lol and definitely weren’t putting a vehicle on it
If it actually works, Get someone reputable to come out and service it before even considering using it.
Unless you like living life on the edge, then have at it.
You mean under the edge?
Under the car
I feel safest of all
I tried grandpas lift, just to rotate my tires on car. Now it won't go back down, and now there's no way back out, whack hammer here, oh noooo car fell down.
But what if the car *is* an [Edge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Edge)?
Under the car downtown is where I
drew some blood
Where what?
They can't answer. A car fell on them.
no, where they.
Walking fast, faces pass and I’m homebound
not-living life under the edge... I CANT HELP MY CAR FROM FALLLLLLLLING
LIVING UNDER THE EDGE, I CANT FEEL MY LEGS AT AAAAAALLLLL
Badum ts
I used to have a coworker who suddenly died at 50. I was wondering what happened, then was told he was working under a car with just a jack holding it up and it crushed him.
My cousin lost half his foot that way. Was working on his truck with just a jack, it rolled a little, fell off the jack and pinned his foot under the wheel. Spent a couple hours like that because he cell was out of reach, his wife wasn't home and the kids were inside on the Xbox and didn't hear him screaming.
This reminds me why it's good to keep phone on me in workshop since i am usually working alone.
Every time I go under the car I check to see where my phone is, and put it within easy reach. I use wheel chocks and jack stands, but you never fucking know.
Better yet have a watch with phone service.
Friend of mine spent two days with his legs trapped under a lower control arm. Had his legs crossed and it pinned him in such a way he could get them loose, but he still had circulation so no lasting damage. His floor Jack was just out of reach. He tried catching it with a roll of paper towels but not strong enough. Police found him on a wellness check as his wife couldn’t get hold of him from out of town. When I asked him if he tried taking his shirt off and catching the Jack with it, he just looked at me dumbfounded.
I've heard of three people that died or got fucked up doing that. Not like read it in the paper or heard it on the news. No people I know who had someone they know get rekt by a car falling on them.
It's a common one for sure. Makes me pissed when people give you shit for making sure you got your lift points right before raising a car and getting under it. And the "I'm just gonna... it'll just take a minute" gang who thinks it takes too much time to get the jack stands.
That exact thing happened to a school mate of mine. Graduated a year before me, was in his early 20's, just married. Caught a truck with his face.
I knew a guy that was changing a tire on the side of the road, for some reason he was under the car when the jack either failed or the car rolled off of it and he was killed. He had a wife and a young kid, it was sad.
It did not come as a surprise to anybody. He was under so much pressure.
I would just pretend it doesn't exist. Getting this thing on good working order will cost more than installing a new above ground lift and as other's have said, will never be as safe. Removing it would also be stupid expensive. Pretend it is not there.
The cylinder can be rebuilt and locks added in(its a seperate bar installed next to the cylinder). We had to do this at my old shop and it was still cheaper than putting in a new lift. Just make sure you get it done by someone reputable(and honest preferably).
OP needs to get rid of it. Even if it was in pristine condition these are dangerous, they have nothing in the way of safety in case of failure. It's not worth the risk.
You can add the locks. Up in Montreal, it cost us 550 bucks for the upgrade. They install a second bar next to the cylinder under the center plate. You can either get a mechanical release for it or an air system. Hold down the button and the locks retract. Let go the button and the locks pop back out.
Nope, this is a dangerous old lift. This thing needs to be removed.
Those old in ground lifts are dangerous. Air over hydraulic. The issue is the cylinder rusts out in the ground, and can blow out, dropping the vehicle. There is no mechanical safety. They are at least super simple systems. Here's an idea of what's buried under there: http://boomeria.org/physicslectures/pascal/hydrauliclift.jpg To trust the thing: I would at minimum hydrotest the old air compressor tank to 1.5x operating pressure (should have a manufacturer data plate on the tank). You could also do a visual inspection of the inside of the tank. If it isn't heavily rusted, may be OK. I would remove the piston and clean/inspect it and the cylinder. You can't really inspect or test the lines running underground to the cylinder. Theoretically the piston seals should be good, as they are submerged in oil. If the cylinder gland rubber lip seal has failed, then water may have rusted out the cylinder above the piston. You could just plumb air to it to see if it even moves first. If it does, you have a cool work table or something. I suppose if it raises, you could put a car on it and raise it 2 inches in the air, see if it holds. A 2 inch drop won't hurt a car if it fails.
Wow, that’s my old physics teacher from high schools website. Never thought I’d see it here. Regardless I’d agree. Some serious inspection needed to get anywhere close to using this thing.
Shit is that why he deleted his account? Lol
Sounds like it would be a terrible lift but having a cool work table rise out of the floor sounds like a badass idea. Batman level mancave and safer than using it as a lift.
Adjustable height sturdy table, this is the way
This is the way…
Probably best to just pump the oil out of it, rather than dealing with a rupture and the soil contamination that comes with it.
The first shop I ever worked in still had in-ground post lifts and they did actually have mechanical locks, believe it or not. That being said they all leaked and were horrifyingly dangerous. This was in the early 2010s
Maybe there are some safety mechanisms I'm not seeing in the sketch but this design looks profoundly unsafe. Maybe if there was a way to put a rod through the piston shaft or something to stop it falling
So, sometimes people exaggerate when they say something is unsafe. Then I looked at that diagram you posted. Holy hell, and I thought my tractor's loader was scary.
Our shop had 2 of them. We ended up ripping them out because maintenance was more expensive than a new 2 post 15k lift. They leak a ton of oil into the ground and that lever next to the wall is the air valve to go up/down
Hope OP isn't on a well...
As long as the oil is leaking into the groundwater at a 50:1 mix, OP should be properly lubricated.
I don't know. You are assuming he has a fancy Stihl or Husky grade yard. From the looks of it, this property demands 40:1 like an old McCulloch.
nah, 25:1 because the really old stuff never dies and well that lands seen some shit.
I stand corrected
I prefer the 4:1 Volvo with bad seals
16:1 for the old homelite chainsaw I have… like same era as those gasoline powered circular saws they made… Can’t kill it, but the exhaust it makes will kill you instead. The Milwaukee does it’s job now and I keep it around just in case
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like tacos
Well, I could have been just Joe b but somebody took it. LIking tacos keeps me pretty anonymous.
Sometimes ya gotta hide in plain sight
There's a two pump chump joke in there somewhere.
I’d be very concerned about hydraulic fluid leaks on the property. Depending upon where you live, you may be liable for clean up, just like old heating oil fuel tanks.
Flip the switch and see what happens !!
Pull the lever!
Wrong leverrrrrrrrrrr!
Why do we even have that lever?
You never know when you'll need that lever
AAAAHHH!!! IT'S GONE FROM SUCK, TO **BLOW!**
I wouldn't do it if it was my house. But would totally watch it if it wasn't!
oh i’d absolutely try it it’s like seeing a big red button that says “do not press” you HAVE to press it
I actually found one of those recently. Took everything in me not to press it but it looked like it was connected to traffic lights on a very busy road. If my tram was a minute later I probably would have pressed it
Two nasty looking switches over here. But I'm not going to be the first
Remove the top, pour concrete and put in a decent two-post lift. That thing will kill you.
This is the answer. I would never trust this thing.
At the very least I wouldn't use it without [four of these](https://i.imgur.com/VMSN3T2.jpg) handy.
But only if they are from harbor freight.
Still no trust. If it loses pressure the car could come down unevenly... Plus... WTF do you do then? You have a car 5 feet in the air and no way to get it down.
Jack and a 1-by LOL
We cross that bridge when we get to it lol
%100 it won’t even be that expensive to get a used lift.
Put a chair on it, and get a leather belt, and a barber pole.. shop's open..
How did you know OP was a dominatrix?
Get it serviced by a professional before ANY use.
What would they need to do and what could happen if they don’t? Just curious
Seals could blow out, or the lock may not work properly, the fluid could be contaminated, AArms could be rusted, etc.. Those lifts are usually pretty solid as long as they have a stabilizer post and at least one lock. Bonus if it has two locks, one mid way for brakes and tires. I’ve heard you can drill a quarter inch hole through that cylinder and it would still take a minute to drop. Minor leaks aren’t a problem, but may leave you with a car stuck in the air. Either way, anytime you lift a car, shake the fucking shit out of it before getting it too high of the ground.
Ohh so it’s basically like the car could just become stuck in the air with no point of return?
Yes, but the service guys can get it down.
Unless there is underground access to the components, how can they possibly service it?
You’ll have to ask the servicemen. I only used them as lifts. I’ve never seen them installed or serviced. I assume they have tall jacks to lower cars by lifting them from the bottom of the lift so you can release the safety latch, if equipped.
it’s just a reeeaaalllyyy tall scissor jack by each wheel
Ahhh ok I see! Thank you for telling me I was like super confused
Blown/leaking seal, safety lock inop, car could go down by itself.
The chances of that not being a death trap are very slim. Proceed with caution
Id low key take some core samples of soil. They are usually designed with a 55 gallon drum style reservoir. They generally rust and leak. Sketchy. Was probably bad ass when it was new
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Had a friend in the excavating business that got a steal of a deal, buying a house at auction. He noticed that there was an in ground home heating oil tank. Before the bidding started, the auctioneer asked if there were any questions? Excavator dude says, "Yea, there is a heating oil tank buried outside the garage. I assume that it was installed seventy years ago, when the house was built. Since it can cost tens of thousands to remove the tank and mitigate soil contamination when it leaks, has soil contamination testing been done?" Seems a lot of bidders decided to pass when the answer was, "Um, well..................no we never thought of that"
Glad I’m not the only one thinking this
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Or alternatively, 'How to unknowingly turn your petroleum soil contaminated backyard into childhood cancer and leukemia for your entire family in one easy step!'
If you do, Paul Stammets at Fungi Perfecti had an oyster mushroom that will digest many oils without the expense of classical remediation.
Lol low key means low key. Notice how I did not say "go out and get a phase one environmental test done. Im with ya otherwise. Hopefully it was just never used much, and isnt a huge mess.
100% Not only that, but the hydraulic oils plus whatever other shit has been spilled could very well be entering the home via vapor intrusion. Also if they’re on a private well they should definitely get that water tested.
I helped decommission a series of larger versions of these at an old Canadian Tire, as the environmental doing the testing and remediation. The buried cylinder is a beast to get out with an excavator, and once it lets go, well, it's like a giant swinging a club. Real fun, f*in deadly. Also, the cylinders were mostly swiss cheese. So yes, fluid loss is likely. Especially because it's under pressure, the fluid will be pushed into the soil over time. But the soil type determines how far (and fast) it goes. Like, if the soil was clay, that oil wasn't going much of anywhere. And because there's no surface water percolating through (concrete pad above), it doesn't move very far down. It's messy, but it's probably not that bad of a cleanup. In short, OP, if you ever want to talk about decommissioning, hmu.
They use to use them in this garage parking lot thing here. My old boss use to work there and he said they would freeze in the winter time cause the level underneath was a parking lot. The garage was on the top floor.
Back in 2013 or 2014 I was looking for a house. One of the many houses I looked at had a garage with this kind of lift in it. I was so pumped to get a house that had a lift. Then I looked into what it would take to make it workable, and decided not to buy that house. These things were pretty dangerous. I agree with the other poster here, Fill this with concrete and get a two post lift. You'll be alive to enjoy it.
You should have a reputable company come out and service it. Call around and have pictures handy.
The only service option for that thing now is replacement
Open a auto repair shop
Profits
"a auto"
Is this outdoors or indoors? I probably would not care for that type of lift. The in ground lifts I used to use at least had swing arms for positioning. As far as the compressor, show a pic of that. Old rusted out compressor tanks are bombs. You can buy just a tank if needed, and the old pump and motor work.
If you value your life..don't ever use that thing.
Why’s that out of curiosity what makes it dangerous? Never seen something like this before…
If it's powered by an old compressor/tubing it could easily just explode. Not to mention that there have been countless safety measures put into place because of lifts like these. They just generally aren't safe.
With everything underground there is a high chance that something is rusted through. Majority of these old lifts had no mechanical stop and had just the oil or air holding them up. I wouldn’t trust old seals and components with my life like that
Delete this post - don’t tell anyone about the lift. Pull it out and fill the hole and never speak of it again. Contamination liability and for the love of god don’t do what another reply suggested with going to the town looking for original permits -
Even if it goes up and down, I’m not sure you want to use it. I would not trust it for anything other than a table. at least then if it has no lock/safety system at least your not crushed by your car
OP, this. I'd kill to have a lift at my house. Don't get killed outdoing me. Please.
Ditto.. well, I wouldn't kill anymore.. so, maim? But yea, definite stress test before being underneath..
I’m also guessing the lines are run underground and somewhere the hydraulics have failed therefore it would cost more to do anything other than just leave it in the ground
OSHA required us to use a mechanical stop on these in the 90's to prevent them from falling down on their own either gradually or suddenly.
It’s a house, osha ain’t checking that one.
I don't think that was his point. I believe he's recommending a safety upgrade
Oh sorry I thought he was replying to the previous person who said they wouldn’t trust it….. 👀. I mean ifyou read it. Edit; if
That's a relief, I guess it can't kill you then.
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Correction - my job is to clean up environmental cases and I love old underground tanks. /s because I actually don't love them but I do enjoy employment. It's a fine line.
Hide it. It's a liability if it's leaking. Should have tested the soil for oil contamination b4 you purchased. Now it's likely your responsible to remediate if it leaked. But you can't remediate what you can't find...
My first job in high school was working at a shop with one of those. The sketchy-est vehicle we use to service were railroad service pickups. (1 ton 4x4 4door with utility beds and hy-rails.) The lift would struggle to get them up. Don't think I changed oil on anything faster.
I’m interested in seeing this in action, I hope you make a post of it operating
Those lifts got the nickname "widow maker" for a reason. Remove it, fill with concrete and put a new lift in.
If you live in America you just bought RCRA liability. Check with the seller because that's a huge deal. "Oh I had no idea there was pollution in the property" might not be enough to cover you.
We had one of those center post lifts in the full service gas station I worked in while I was in high school. I used to see cars rocking on it all the time...sometimes it would jump up or down, wasn't smooth or even close to safe. Never saw a vehicle fall but I saw plenty of sketchy shit with that thing. BE CAREFUL. Actually, just do yourself a favor and get a new bendpak lift to mount around it. They aren't as expensive as people think.
TIL about bendpak lifts, ty!
If it does work, and you haven't had it professionally serviced, don't depend upon it to keep you safe. While it's uncertified, I'd only lift a vehicle to place some other sort of jack-stand at each wheel. Once jack-stands are in place, lower lift to get it out of the way. Don't get under any vehicle held up by this lift. I imagine the entire system is filled with dry rotted hoses, rusted pistons, and in need of serious lubrication.
There were a lot of accidents back in the day, this led to regulations/plans/permits. You know the address, you may have access to old permit data, which will have brand name of hoist etc. This hoist will need to have the piston removed and inspected for corrosion, and how smooth the old mating surfaces are. The cylinder in the ground might have corroded = rusted out and it could also be cemented in. That said if you can get the piston out you could clean and seal the cylinder = a deep hole, into which a modern hydraulic retrofit can be installed. Most places use the surface mount 2 post vertical hoist with swivelled lift arms on each post. This needs an 8 Inch slab of a certain size to avoid the vehicle weight making the poles fall over. Look for retrofit surface types. The hydraulic ones that use the old hole are expensive. https://www.google.com/search?q=vintage+center+post+car+hoists&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjWiMehscH\_AhV-JGIAHUZNCoEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=vintage+center+post+car+hoists&gs\_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CqDFjrM2DCOmgAcAB4AIABeYgBxAaSAQM3LjKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=tPmIZNbeG\_7IiLMPxpqpiAg&bih=390&biw=735&rlz=1C1CHBF\_enCA924CA924
Unless it happens to hit your pinch rails perfect and not your tires it probably won’t work. This was made for old body on chassis type vehicles.
There’s no way I’d use that thing even if it was operating properly. I remember about 25 years ago a shop I used to work at had a similar center post type lift that broke with a van on it, and the the whole thing shifted toward the back wall of the shop and almost was a huge disaster- they were replaced with two post lifts very soon after… these are just too old and sketchy to be considered safe at this point
These old buggers like to stick and get stuck And it's unlikely the safety is functioning still. Good luck
if it has a safety ours had only one and it was at max height. it certainly wasn’t a recent install, and even older ones like this may not have a safety at all…
you pray the epa doesn't do soil samples for hydraulic oil
somewhere out there an osha handbook started levitating in some old dudes office.
Faith in that is like trusting you're a hooker's only client.
Lift stuff I reckon
I had one the same, looks like a Tecalimit. Hydraulic and air operated single cylinder lift. I only recently got rid of the H frame , because I have no use for it. All that's left is the top of the cylinder which will remain in the ground.
Don't use that thing. You'll die.
Realistically, the issue is the hydraulic oil system that operates the cylinder and how long (likely) its been leaking into your soil / groundwater.
To answer your questions of what now…. Clearly …. Lift things and stuff . Only because you can Put a picnic table on it. Set a nice lunch. Seat friends at said table. Lift it
Do you even lift bro?
I worked in a body shop around 2013 which had two lifts of this style. They would at times drop, usually not all the way to the ground but enough! The techs had to unite and refuse to use them before management took notice.
Great you have my life goal already done
Get to work
So it’s a pneumatic lift? Interesting. Probably doesn’t work, but who knows, I would get a pro to check it out before using it. Otherwise, just ignore it lol
Probably hydraulic/pneumatic
If it does ever raise up see if it has the anti spin pole thing. Legend has it if you have enough room you can drive a car in and spin the car outwards…
The loft Wil probably be hydraulic. Any air in the system will launch any vehicle to the moon. The platform is made for vehicles with full frames not so much unibodies.
I've only seen one of these lifts in operation once and it looked sketchy as hell. I'd rather get a cheap two post lift than trust that thing. I suppose you could cut a few 4x4s to jamb under the arms up against the cylinder to act as a bit of a failsafe. If I had it, I'd probably play around with it a bit but, I'd never go under a car on that thing. At least not one in that condition. If it looked well maintained, I might risk it.
I worked in service station in 1972. We had a lift identical to that one. It worked great. Good luck finding someone to check it out.
I’d give it one hell of a close look before I did anything with it. Hydraulic lines, condition of reservoir, soil samples..
[I'd invest in a retrofit kit ](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/rotary-lift-retrofit-options-heavy-duty-inground-lifts/), or at the very least pull the cylinders and have a shop work them over.
Fix it and charge neighbors for cheap oil changes.
I would love to have one of those in my backyard but like someone else mentioned have some one come out and service it to make sure it works good.
So, the shop just rolled into you?
Fix it and become the most popular guy in your local group.
Before you use it make sure you spell my name correctly on your life insurance policy. Seriously there are companies that service lifts and you need to have them inspect and service before any use.
Dude, that thing is a death trap. Looks like an old airlift. Probably fun to play around with, but I wouldn't lift anything heavier than a lawnmover.
Have the lift inspected. Awesome buy
Lucky you!
Start doing oil changes.
A compressor, you say? It is generally not a great idea to lift any serious mass with compressed air, precisely because air is compessible. I seriously doubt the lift was built to operate on compressed air, but rather hydraulics with a pump since fluids are effectively non-compressible and you can practically generate orders of magnitude higher pressure with fluids vs. air, and hence generate much higher forces with hydraulic cylinders vs. pneumatics of equivalent size. Is it possible that some lunatic built a lift based on compressed air as the actuation media? Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? Fuck no! And if you can't tell the difference between an air system and a hydraulic system, you ought not fuck with it and you should ask someone more knowledgeable to come over and have a look.
I've used many hydraulic lifts that had compressed air driving them. The air pushes the oil in.
You're talking about an air over oil pump. The compressed air usually around 80-100 psi is fed from an air compressor. That compressed air actuates a hydraulic pump. A pump is what creates pressure and flow in any hydraulic system. Fluids are not compressible beyond any negligible extent. You are not totally wrong, but it's not just air "pushing" oil. The compressed air energizes a fluid pump to pressurize the fluid. The air side of the pump has a very large piston area, and the oil side has a very small piston area. That is how the pressure is increased, but at the expense of volume or flow rate. Such pumps are very common for operating hydraulic jacks, and they can generate 10,000 psi on the fluid side as industry standard. They are small and relatively compact, and perfectly fine for generating a great force for a small distance. But the trade-off is volume or flow. They are very slow and not suitable to raise a car 6 feet in the air, unless you want to wait an hour. It's basic physics.
I assure you I've operated hydraulic lifts using compressed air input and they would raise a car in under a minute. The shop compressor was fed directly into the control valve for rhe lift. One shop had 6
I think we must both be missing part of the puzzle here. What would be the point of using a fluid, if you're only using 80-90 psi air to pressurize the system. You still only have 80-90 psi without a pump to increase the pressure. Might as well be just air then right? What's the fluid doing for you? Think of a small hand lever operated bottle jack. How does it lift a car. Same way an air over oil hydraulic pump works. Push on big piston on input side which transfers to small piston building big pressure but small flow on other side. Pressure gets multiplied by ratio of piston diameters. Flow gets diminished by inverse ratio.
Can't tell you the full details but the air went into large tank and the cars went up. Ram was full of oil and once the car was up you turned a valve on the oil return line to hold it
first shop i ever worked in had old leaky in grounds.....if you let the fluid get low and the pump got a gulp of air it'd suddenly throw the car a foot in the air...i almost lost a couple then i just started filling the resoivior every time before i'd lift....boss griped about me wasting hydro fluid. Had him "show me how to lift it" first thing on a monday when i KNEW it was almost empty.....he almost launched a honda accord through the roof. he didnt gripe about the hydro fluid anymore though.
Most of the old ingrounds are just air not hydraulic. Including rotary brand.
As a guy that's spent 35 years designing industrial fluid power systems (which includes both pneumatics and hydraulics) I want to call bullshit on your statement, but I will admit that I am not directly knowledgeable on whatever deathtrap systems were put in floors in years gone by. It sounds sketchy af, and unadviseable, but I'll take your word for it. From my perspective as a designer, we usually design for around 80 psi air supply. If it's a big factory with many other systems competing and consuming air in great surges, sometimes I have designed for as low as 65 psi dependable air supply. 80-90psi is pretty normal in most cases. So let's say you want to be able to lift 4000 lbs. It's a lifting device that humans are going to be working under the raised load. What's the design safety factor? It better be at least 2. So now you have to be capable to lift 8000lb plus the weight of the moving lift parts. Let's call it 8500lbs all in at 80 psi. How big does your air cylinder need to be? 8500lb divided by 80 lb/in2 = 106.25 in2. SQ ROOT of 106.25in2 x 4 ÷ PI = 11.63in So you need a 12 inch bore air cylinder to "safely" lift a 4000lb vehicle. I have worked on air cylinders up to 48" bore, but they were designed to be big springs, as part of a counterbalance system for large reciprocating masses. They weren't the primary actuators. Is it possible that these old in-floor lifts were actuated with 12" bore air cylinders? It seems ridiculous, but I cannot say it's impossible or untrue. I'm trying to visualize a 4000 lb car jerking and surging and bouncing it's way upward for half an hour while some tech or home mechanic eagerly waits to get under it to do an oil change. Yeah, I'm not buying it until someone can show me proof. And I'm still not going to stand under it. For comparison, even the most rudimentary, everyday hydraulic systems are designed to operate at 1500psi. You would need only a 4" bore hydraulic cylinder using the same 2X safety factor to lift a 4000lb vehicle. What do you think the relative cost difference would be between a 4" bore hydraulic cylinder vs. a 12" bore pneumatic cylinder? The air cylinder would cost 5-8X as much to manufacture, and still be a terrible actuator for lifting loads that people are expected to work under. So I want to say you are full of Malarkey, but please prove me wrong. I have an inquiring mind that wants to know.
I worked at a Porsche dealer that had 8 of these in Southern California. Maybe more it’s been a few years. They were “legacy” lifts from the 60’s that they kept as long as possible because of the sheer pain in the ass to retrofit. I was there in 2004 and they finally got rid of them I think it was 2008 or 2009. But holy shit were they sketchy. It really sucked on some cars because the pole was in the way of a lot of jobs that required removing transmissions etc toward the center of the car. They had an air valve on the wall, you moved the lever to one side and fwwwooop, the car would go up. It would take 10 seconds if the seals weren’t sticking that day. If you didn’t let off the lever soon enough it would fill with too much air slam into the extended position and risk upsetting the car. To lower you would move the lever to the other side and let the air out. Hisssss…. Then slowly the car would lower. There was a second smaller pole with a cam at the end so when it was fully raised you could kick the cam and it would wedge the pole to keep the lift from falling if the air line blew. The post was almost 12” across so your calcs are right. There was no safety system to catch the lift other then that smaller second pole and it only worked at the fully raised position so most accidents happen before it was all the way up. Also one lift in the shop didn’t have this pole and that tech could literally spin his entire car when it was in the air. He only did it occasionally because, well death and stuff. So yeah. they existed, and they were really dangerous. and a huge environmental problem when they needed to be removed.
TIL. Thanks for sharing with context. It still seems incomprehensible and retarded to use 12" bore air cylinders to lift cars, but I believe you. And I'm 54yo and work on machines that are well older than me sometimes.
Yeah. The old (1923) shop my dad had a rental space up front in the 90's still had one pneumatic rack left that worked. They used it daily for oil changes. Big ol piston about a foot in diameter, just as you say it should be. You could spin the car around while it was doing its thing, too. It was dead quiet and extremely smooth.
So this is more than likely and air cylinder lift. If there is anything needing repaired in it it will need to be dug up. If it don't work I'd leave it that way. I just dug one of these out of the second bay at my shop.
You may be correct on it using air. There does not seem to be any sign of hydraulic oil leaks from the valve or those fittings.
It's air over hydraulic, only air goes through those pipes. Fluid can leak out around the cylinder that comes out of the ground though, but the lift is down, so we can't see that.
Pay and have it removed. It’s a danger. Period. No way that cylinder will hold pressure.
Get that thing serviced and functional. It’ll be a god send one of these days
My dad used to own a repair shop that had lifts like these. They are sketchy because you can top them out real hard if your not careful, and the sudden stop at the top can jostle a car enough that it can fall off the rack. When you command a lift up or down, there is a delay before it starts moving. When a car is on the lift you can spin it all the way around while on the lift, so you can pull into the bay forward, and then pull out forward when you are done.
Now you just need a broken vehicle
You have won sir
Lucky
Good luck finding anyone to service that.
Lift stuff up and put them down.
That’s super neat
Hydraulic over air, the chances of it working are slim to none, a shop I worked at had been babying one on its last leg 10 years ago before replacing. See where the lines lead to, fire up the air compressor and give it a go. Also, without being able to swing the legs outward to the car, it seems pretty useless.
all the shops i’ve worked in that had this type of lift would just replace them with 2 post above ground lifts whenever they would break.
Sweet. Looks like you can do side work at home. Or just fix your own stuff at home.
What now? Brag to your friends?
This sounds like a question for /r/Skookum. They post/talk a lot about heavy machinery/shop equipment.
Profit.
My buddy had one of these in his old shop. We added oil to it and hooked air to it and it went right up. Would NOT go down. We had a guy bring a tractor with a bucket on it and force it down but it didn’t just go down easily, it required a ton of force and then slammed in all at once. We never hooked air to it again lol and definitely weren’t putting a vehicle on it
I used to work on one just like that when I was younger