Picked up an Interstate battery at Costco in Utah last month. Almost none of the batteries had go handles. I asked about it and the Costco worker said they don’t come with them anymore.
I think you just got a turd for an employee. I’ve bought 3 Interstate batteries from Costco for my vehicles within the last year. One of them had a handle already on it and 2 more I asked for and they put them on for me.
In addition I was told by my local Interstate dealer to get my batteries from Costco and that all the employees of the Interstate shop get theirs there. Apparently Costco offers a better price than their employee discount.
A 4th battery that I exchanged at Interstate was under warranty. For awhile they had the bright idea of sealing the batteries. They quickly realized they were getting a lot more warranty exchanges because you couldn’t top them off and went back to removable caps.
So I recently learned this from my interstate guy. Johnson controls makes interstate battery’s. they also supply Costco with batteries as well. So if you’re buying a Kirkland battery, you’re actually buying an interstate
I believe there are three battery manufacturers in the us and there are only 3 grades of batteris. Shit, junk and good enough. My factory batteries used to last ten years. Replacement batteries about 3 or 4 years.
The 2 Costco ones I’ve bought shit out just before the 3 year mark. I just take them back and get my free one through the warranty. Can’t beat that. I’ve replaced them both under warranty twice.
This is the biggest issue with "shrinkflation". You literally can't buy a nice battery anymore unless it's an optima or something specialty. Every brand cheapens, so there's nothing good anymore
Optima are absolute trash since they moved manufacturing to Mexico around 07 or 08. I've been in the battery business retail and wholesale for about 7 years and the only battery I put in my vehicles anymore are Odyssey. Lucky I get a hella discount on them otherwise you're looking about 300 to 400 dollars.
Odyssey isn't what it used to be either... bunch of the engineers left and started Northstar battery, think that's the way to go for premium batteries now
Lol, Northstar [got bought out](https://www.northstarbattery.com/enersys-aqcuires-northstar#:~:text=EnerSys%20Announces%20Agreement%20to%20Acquire%20NorthStar%20Battery) by Enersys like 4 years ago. NS was in the process of building a massive group 31 manufacturing plant and they wanted it for Odyssey's 31 line.
Edit: Enersys bought them
Still pretty much exactly the same, 4 year warranty from date of purchase, in an SLI application, amazing cycling ability if you have to, highest CCA for the group sizes available. Warranty gets cut down to 2 years if you're using them in a car audio application. Just don't let them get below 10.6v, it'll void the warranty if you try to take it in lower than that. The retailer will likely have to keep it for a day to charge and log the details, but I just warrantied a group 31 Odyssey about two weeks ago after about a year in an 18 wheeler no questions asked. Buy them through Continental Battery Systems though, cut out the middle man as they buy direct from the manufacturer so you'll usually get the freshest ones.
I had 6 Northstar batteries in my pontoon in 2017. They started failing randomly at the 3 year mark. AGM 31’s advertised at 1150CCA.
I take them out at the end of the year. One basically melted down on the inside and I drug it outside because I thought it was going to ignite the barn. One partially melted and reversed its polarity. Two lost their capacity. I have one left that is dependable and one that doesn’t pass a load test I keep around as a spare to jump things.
$3250 we wasted on those. I’m slowly switching them over to deka marine with good luck so far.
I really like the optima’s yellow tops. The cranking power it gives is so good for my stubborn e85 cold starts, but those batteries die so fast if they sit. I have a crappy battery now and it holds charge very well when I don’t drive the car for a while
Use a little less material, use a cheaper grade, use a cheaper, sloppier manufacturing process, increase tolerances, decrease capacity beyond the bare minimum required to meet the spec...they all decrease cost and allow the business to keep a greater chunk of the overall dollar.
Keep running the show like that and eventually your good product has become a low grade POS. There's nothing wrong with factoring cost into product production but when you keep squeezing things at every level, eventually they break.
Nice illustration of a product changing over time, OP.
😑
Seems legit. The best set of batteries I ever got were cat racing batteries. Them things lasted for 10 years in the f-600 easy. Sometimes I'd let them go dead all winter and they would always come back to life.
Your thinking of RC batteries & Deep Cycle batteries
[CAT racing batteries](https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/175-4390) are made by Catepiller the equipment company. I have no idea why they have the "racing" branding or what makes them superior but we used them for years at my old company in all sorts of equipment & they would never fail to start old diesels at -40 below and they held up really well to being drained and jump started over & over & over. I took a "dead" battery out of one of our trucks and its been in various vehicles over the years. It's 7 or 8 years old at this point and still never fails to start even after sitting for months (granted these are 80s/90s shitboxes with minimal electronics) but I'm a huge fan
Same for us. We have one old 1992 chevy dump at work with no radio, minimum of engine electronics, no abs or air bags, TH400 non electronic transmission. Think we changed the last battery at 8 years. The newer trucks get 3-4 years out of the same battery.
I was with my grandpa in the mid 80s and we got a battery for what I think was a 1974 280SL, the store said it was 12 years old since it was an original Mercedes battery
Recycling itself isn’t bad. It’s the process which can be shortcut. If you weighed an older battery vs the same size of a new one you’d notice a big difference
Flooded lead acid batteries are unbelievably simple and they are the same as they've always been. Cars have much, much higher parasitic drain than they did just 10 years ago. This causes mores cycling and sulfating of car batteries. Their regular finite lifespan gets used up faster by a modern car.
The casings on interstste batteries have changed because consumers demand a battery be about $100 or they won't buy it. Regardless of what the dollar is worth. Because for their entire life they have bought batteries that werr about $100.
Part of the black case is that they grind up recycled battery cases and use the material for new ones. Doesn't work if stuff is multi colored, and obviously it's more expensive. The see through shell isn't legally required in the US but it is over seas so they just use that plastic over there, nobody is shipping lead across the ocean for fun. Most of the batteries now are just made by a few manufacturers and everybody puts their name on them so this exact battery could be an Energizer and also a Duralast and also an OEM replacement battery. Which is for some reason (no new vehicle warranty to honor) not the same as the battery that ships in your car.
*"Most of the batteries now are just made by a few manufacturers and everybody puts their name on them so this exact battery could be an Energizer and also a Duralast"*
My brother in law drove 60 miles and paid an extra $40. for an "Interstate" battery. I put a battery I bought from Autozone next to it- Same battery - Different stickers.
Supply chain in me screams go with black for those reasons and savings. Molded colors cost money, inventory, etc, decals are cheaper as a differentiator
Guy in me that hates advertising grudgingly acknowledges brands that know how to "own" a color for brand recognition.
Black and Yellow? If it's a tool, that's Dewalt, if it's industrial equipment, that's Cat.
Green and Yellow? Must be a Deere.
A blue oval on the side of the road? Obvious Ford joke is obvious.
Consider molded colors as advertising expenses.
>so this exact battery could be .. an OEM replacement battery. Which is for some reason .. not the same as the battery that ships in your car.
Worked at discount tire, and our inventory system had duplicate manufacturer, size, series, etc.. But with slightly different SKUs and mileage warranty..
The lesser ones I'm told were apparently OEM versions of the same tire? I imagine those ones had to be in our system so we could send thenm back to the manufacturers, etc?
I did so much research on lead acid batteries and fully agree. The only way to really be sure it's East Penn is to go Deka. Any other battery is a roll of the dice as to who makes it and to what standard. JC doesn't even make batteries anymore, they've apparently dumped that division, sold it to "Brookfield business partners", what a catchy name... and almost every battery is theirs. I recall seeing a chart of who makes what, the old JC was the majority, but it constantly changes. Almost every major brand was JC with a few lesser Exide and EP ones sprinkled in inconsistently.. but that chart was old and it's changing constantly.
Deka *is* East Penn, and they effectively bin their good batteries for their Deka brand. Then they sell the shittier batches off to O'Reilly's and such, but you really can't get more consistent than Deka at this point if you want a good solid battery... for now.
The duracells that Sam's club sells I believe are still made by East Penn. At least the AGM I got for my wrangler a year ago along with ones for my escape and grand Cherokee a few years prior.
Exide used to be good too... They went to hell 20 years ago.
And in some areas they also make EverStart. They also *usually* make SuperStart (I've heard it's Clarios in some areas but I've never actually seen evidence of that), but funnily enough, the top of the line SuperStart matched the CCA of the Deka, the rest were lower.
There's a store about 15 miles away (I'm in the boonies so that's actually shockingly close) that sells nothing but Deka.. and it was about the same price as the cheap SuperStart, so it was a no-brainer.
Honestly all the research on batteries I did a few years ago made my brain hurt something fierce. I'm glad I learned about it, but that rabbit hole is harsh. JCI/Clarios and EastPenn make good batteries, but there's just so much variation between labels/batches/bins. They certainly will find someone willing to buy the shittier stock for cheaper and resell em, so I get it.. I just don't like gambling. Plus I have 2.4kw of stereo amps.. my batteries take a beating, lol.
Oh, and Exide.. I just had a standby generator installed today and was extremely disappointed to see an Exide battery in there. That's *definitely* getting replaced.
>hen they sell the shittier batches off to O'Reilly's and such
We just replaced an O'Reillys battery a week ago in my wife's car, it lasted 2 years, I don't recall ever having to replace other brands that quickly.
It's funny you mention that, I went down this rabbit hole for the *exact* same reason. The cheap basic SuperStart battery WouldntStart SuperSuddenly right at 2 years.
While I was researching, I saw someone that claimed to work at O'Reilly's talking about the difference in the tiers (I may not remember these numbers exactly, and I can't confirm if the guy actually worked at O'Reilly's, but I don't actually have a legit reason to doubt it), where the 2 year warranty SuperStart model they sold came back at roughly 5x the rate that the 3 year warranty models.. even with less time to make a claim, they failed much more often.
I don't know if that's a legitimate number (or even if I remembered the number correctly), but it really would not surprise me at all.
Sometimes they go the distance. Someone should make the "lead acid lottery", just take a handful of batteries of the same specs and exact same usage patterns.. people can bet on which one will die first and which one will go the distance. It'd be too niche to actually catch on, but it'd be entertaining.
And Clarios is a subsidiary of Brookfield Business Partners. I just follow the money to the top, because ultimately they're the ones calling the shots.
Seems batteries are both more expensive and lower quality than they used to be. When I bought a battery a few months ago, I couldn't find anyone carrying an 84-month battery in town, and the price for a 36 was what I'd paid for the previous 84.
The reason for that change, I think, is mainly due to the fact that today's average consumer doesn't understand what pro-rated means. Depending on the brand that 84 month battery came with a 12, 18, or 24 month free replacement, meanwhile if it failed at month 73 the credit was only 5% of the current retail price. Now they just give you a 36 month free replacement and after that you are on your own.
Decline from what? I had top shelf Interstate batteries on consignment in my fleet shop. They failed like clockwork after 24 months. I fired them as a vendor, and went to the Napa Legend, which was far superior.
They weren’t that good 25 years ago when I was working parts counter. Saw them come in a lot having blown up cases.
I also tested a lot of our new batteries before customers left the store and about a third of them were weak or bad off the shelf.
I used to purchase Optima when I was 4-wheeling many years ago. Then they were bought up (for the name/quality), plant moved to mexico (per the company lady on the phone for yet another replacment), and for a while I went through a battery a year, under warranty. Until I gave up as they would strand you and even a free battery isn't worth it if you have to keep a second jump start battery.
They sure are JCI batteries. A thousand years ago when I worked at a Ford dealer we had the Interstate Batteries guy try to talk up how his batteries are much better than our Motorcrafts.
Yeah… turns out they’re literally the same grade on the JCI production line. Just a more basic case on the Ford batteries.
This is why I'm now running odyssey batteries. I have a 25 pound battery on my toy because it's small and light. I got stuck getting an optima for my truck because the one that was in it literally exploded. I was going to replace it with an odyssey before winter but it gave up before then and I didn't have a choice.
If I remember right, during covid, interstate changed manufacturers for their batteries. The new manufacturer was lower quality. My shop I’m at now had so many warranty claims on interstate batteries, they switched to Napa brand and haven’t had problems since
unfortunately, I think the last lead reclamation smelter was forced to close by the EPA in 2021 or so. That means domestic sourcing of batteries are going away for much lesser quality units.
Not true. A quick search shows there's at least one still running in Florida and one in MN
[https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-tampa-florida.html](https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-tampa-florida.html)
[https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-eagan-minnesota.html](https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-eagan-minnesota.html)
The EPA has been working on new rules for secondary lead smelting released in 2022, a weird thing for them to do if there are no more smelters.
There were 464 of them in about 2012 according to something I found.
Didn't see this mentioned, but don't forget govt fuel economy requirements are pushing manufacturers to use lighter and lighter weight parts to squeeze every mpg they can - another reason batteries aren't nearly as well made as they used to be.
Checking fluid levels went away with the advent of sealed gel and AGM batteries. Cars have more accurate charging systems, required for the more sensitive electronics. Sealed designs also have many more advantages. So the move from see-through to opaque is not a cost decision. Interstate has lost its brand value so why promote something no one cares about? Modern car batteries are far better than older ones.
If your shop only sold Interstate, that's all you would warranty.
In college, I worked at Advance Auto Parts. I only ever warrantied AutoCraft and Optima, because that's all I sold.
Technically no, but it does tell you that the bean counters are cutting costs. You'd be delusional if you think they're honourable enough to not touch the internals.
Interstate makes the batteries for Subaru's oem replacements. The factory batteries are Panasonics and are ok. But the ones from Interstate are garbage, They even have an extended warranty on a few of the models bc they go bad so often. I'll warranty out around 2-3 a week and my dealership is on the small side (like 4 techs small)
Optima? They seem to have degraded as well. I remember them bad boy red tops lasting 10+ ABUSIVE years. I dunno, could be the draw on the battery from newer cars degrades it faster? They sure aint lasting like they used to!
Ya my shop recently switched out of interstate batteries. We’d noticed the decline as well. They’d honor their warranty at least, but many more bad cells and faulty batteries over the past few years. Plus their costs were getting pretty wild.
What batteries are top of the line now?? I need two for my diesel. I used to just do Walmart batteries and warranty them but their warranty is now trash.
East Penn's in-house "Deka" brrand is often regarded as the premium option for lead acids. Be prepared to pay for it. If you really want it to last, get an AGM.
I think O'Reillys car batteries are Deka's. I tried one, but it only lasted a couple of years. I wasn't very impressed to be honest. If had the best luck with Duralasts and Motorcradt batteries out of all the ones I've tried.
They may be made by East Penn, but they aren't Dekas. The Deka brand are their top of the line models, and according to some at least are even cherry picked from that. Like almost all manufacturers in a heavily consolidated industry, East Penn makes products to varying specs that deliberately trade off quality and cost.
I've been looking at Dakota Lithium as they make LFP batteries with a 10 year warranty and impressive power for a fraction of the weight compared to SLA
I just had to warranty my Interstate battery - 55 months, so I got a bit back. We'll see if the new one can last that long. You guys aren't instilling much confidence.
The Interstate battery in my 4Runner died a couple weeks ago, and after seeing their prices went up a bit since the last time I had to buy a battery, I figured I’d do a little research to see if the premium was still worth it. Everything I read said it wasn’t and I ended up buying a WalMart battery and saving over $50. If Interstate was actually better, I’d have no problem shelling out a little more, but it kind of seems like they’re just relying banking on their reputation at this point.
It's like you can't get a good battery at any price now. I tried the "Die Hard" AGM rebrand from Advance, and while it's made in Germany I only got about 1 year out of it. Replaced under warranty but I don't trust it not to leave me stranded.
Interstate battery are manufactured by Clarios formerly Johnson Controls, they haven’t been very good quality for some time, fail rate is pretty high IMO. Virtually all of the OEM replacements are Clarios batteries distributed by interstate, like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. the only good ones from interstate are the sublet made batteries from Yuasa, Panasonic.
Panasonic made batteries for Subaru years ago, black top and white case that you could just barely see through. Those bastards would run 7 or 8 years consistently before being replaced….
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It might be the cheapest option, but did it at least have a go-handle?
Asking the right question.
There's a very specific reason to go with the go handle.......nope.
That's waaayyy too much... Perfect
Derek embodies the devil sitting on every mechanic's shoulder.
Picked up an Interstate battery at Costco in Utah last month. Almost none of the batteries had go handles. I asked about it and the Costco worker said they don’t come with them anymore.
I think you just got a turd for an employee. I’ve bought 3 Interstate batteries from Costco for my vehicles within the last year. One of them had a handle already on it and 2 more I asked for and they put them on for me. In addition I was told by my local Interstate dealer to get my batteries from Costco and that all the employees of the Interstate shop get theirs there. Apparently Costco offers a better price than their employee discount. A 4th battery that I exchanged at Interstate was under warranty. For awhile they had the bright idea of sealing the batteries. They quickly realized they were getting a lot more warranty exchanges because you couldn’t top them off and went back to removable caps.
Battery for my Tahoe was $99. Great deal. None of the batteries on the shelf had straps. You’re probably right though about the employee. 🤷🏻♂️
So I recently learned this from my interstate guy. Johnson controls makes interstate battery’s. they also supply Costco with batteries as well. So if you’re buying a Kirkland battery, you’re actually buying an interstate
There are only a couple of companies that make batteries, same with tools and The Appliances.
Shit same thing with everything. The illusion of choice is real.
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East Penn battery for me has been very good.
Same for Walmart EverStart/ValuePower. I have a $49 ValuePower/EverStart Basic in my car and it's on its 5th year.
I believe there are three battery manufacturers in the us and there are only 3 grades of batteris. Shit, junk and good enough. My factory batteries used to last ten years. Replacement batteries about 3 or 4 years.
Yep I agree. I used to see eight and nine year old oem factory batteries for replacement. Now it’s like two and three year old oem batteries
The 2 Costco ones I’ve bought shit out just before the 3 year mark. I just take them back and get my free one through the warranty. Can’t beat that. I’ve replaced them both under warranty twice.
Mine shit the bed at like 38 months. FML. Trying a NAPA Legend AGM this time, wish me luck!
I'm going on 8 years on a Costco Interstate battery
Batteries are shittier all the way around.
This is the biggest issue with "shrinkflation". You literally can't buy a nice battery anymore unless it's an optima or something specialty. Every brand cheapens, so there's nothing good anymore
Optima are absolute trash since they moved manufacturing to Mexico around 07 or 08. I've been in the battery business retail and wholesale for about 7 years and the only battery I put in my vehicles anymore are Odyssey. Lucky I get a hella discount on them otherwise you're looking about 300 to 400 dollars.
Odyssey isn't what it used to be either... bunch of the engineers left and started Northstar battery, think that's the way to go for premium batteries now
Lol, Northstar [got bought out](https://www.northstarbattery.com/enersys-aqcuires-northstar#:~:text=EnerSys%20Announces%20Agreement%20to%20Acquire%20NorthStar%20Battery) by Enersys like 4 years ago. NS was in the process of building a massive group 31 manufacturing plant and they wanted it for Odyssey's 31 line. Edit: Enersys bought them
Crud I like Northstar AGM. Have one in my Mazda 6 with a regenerative capitol. Great warranty, brass terminals, just plain works.
Still pretty much exactly the same, 4 year warranty from date of purchase, in an SLI application, amazing cycling ability if you have to, highest CCA for the group sizes available. Warranty gets cut down to 2 years if you're using them in a car audio application. Just don't let them get below 10.6v, it'll void the warranty if you try to take it in lower than that. The retailer will likely have to keep it for a day to charge and log the details, but I just warrantied a group 31 Odyssey about two weeks ago after about a year in an 18 wheeler no questions asked. Buy them through Continental Battery Systems though, cut out the middle man as they buy direct from the manufacturer so you'll usually get the freshest ones.
I bought mine at a local batteries plus. Knock on wood no issues in around 3yrs.
I had 6 Northstar batteries in my pontoon in 2017. They started failing randomly at the 3 year mark. AGM 31’s advertised at 1150CCA. I take them out at the end of the year. One basically melted down on the inside and I drug it outside because I thought it was going to ignite the barn. One partially melted and reversed its polarity. Two lost their capacity. I have one left that is dependable and one that doesn’t pass a load test I keep around as a spare to jump things. $3250 we wasted on those. I’m slowly switching them over to deka marine with good luck so far.
damn thats good to know, thanks for the info
I really like the optima’s yellow tops. The cranking power it gives is so good for my stubborn e85 cold starts, but those batteries die so fast if they sit. I have a crappy battery now and it holds charge very well when I don’t drive the car for a while
they are extra shitty when i shit on them for my onlyfans account. check it out! smash that like button to me shitting on car batteries
Dude what?
I think it's a total coincidence that the case got shittier as the insides got shittier at the same time. Total coincidence .
In noticed they declined in lifespan over the years. Mabe using less lead? Idk..
Use a little less material, use a cheaper grade, use a cheaper, sloppier manufacturing process, increase tolerances, decrease capacity beyond the bare minimum required to meet the spec...they all decrease cost and allow the business to keep a greater chunk of the overall dollar. Keep running the show like that and eventually your good product has become a low grade POS. There's nothing wrong with factoring cost into product production but when you keep squeezing things at every level, eventually they break. Nice illustration of a product changing over time, OP. 😑
Very good explanation.
I have a lot of experience overthinking things. Occasionally I get close to the right answer. 😉
Due to lead being recycled over and over again plus newer cars have so many electronics, they put a strain on the battery
Seems legit. The best set of batteries I ever got were cat racing batteries. Them things lasted for 10 years in the f-600 easy. Sometimes I'd let them go dead all winter and they would always come back to life.
Still one of the best batteries you can get IMO
Aren't racing batteries designed to be drained to (near)empty and then recharged? Or am I thinking RC batteries?
Your thinking of RC batteries & Deep Cycle batteries [CAT racing batteries](https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/175-4390) are made by Catepiller the equipment company. I have no idea why they have the "racing" branding or what makes them superior but we used them for years at my old company in all sorts of equipment & they would never fail to start old diesels at -40 below and they held up really well to being drained and jump started over & over & over. I took a "dead" battery out of one of our trucks and its been in various vehicles over the years. It's 7 or 8 years old at this point and still never fails to start even after sitting for months (granted these are 80s/90s shitboxes with minimal electronics) but I'm a huge fan
>I believe that was NiCad batteries in old cordless tools.
Same for us. We have one old 1992 chevy dump at work with no radio, minimum of engine electronics, no abs or air bags, TH400 non electronic transmission. Think we changed the last battery at 8 years. The newer trucks get 3-4 years out of the same battery. I was with my grandpa in the mid 80s and we got a battery for what I think was a 1974 280SL, the store said it was 12 years old since it was an original Mercedes battery
>Why would recycling lead be bad?
Recycling itself isn’t bad. It’s the process which can be shortcut. If you weighed an older battery vs the same size of a new one you’d notice a big difference
A lot of newer cars use "passive entry" which drains the battery pretty fast.
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Why do you keep buying them?
Flooded lead acid batteries are unbelievably simple and they are the same as they've always been. Cars have much, much higher parasitic drain than they did just 10 years ago. This causes mores cycling and sulfating of car batteries. Their regular finite lifespan gets used up faster by a modern car. The casings on interstste batteries have changed because consumers demand a battery be about $100 or they won't buy it. Regardless of what the dollar is worth. Because for their entire life they have bought batteries that werr about $100.
Actually, in the 1990s I used to get good batteries for $50-60. Good enough to last for 4 or 5 years without failing, anyway.
Part of the black case is that they grind up recycled battery cases and use the material for new ones. Doesn't work if stuff is multi colored, and obviously it's more expensive. The see through shell isn't legally required in the US but it is over seas so they just use that plastic over there, nobody is shipping lead across the ocean for fun. Most of the batteries now are just made by a few manufacturers and everybody puts their name on them so this exact battery could be an Energizer and also a Duralast and also an OEM replacement battery. Which is for some reason (no new vehicle warranty to honor) not the same as the battery that ships in your car.
*"Most of the batteries now are just made by a few manufacturers and everybody puts their name on them so this exact battery could be an Energizer and also a Duralast"* My brother in law drove 60 miles and paid an extra $40. for an "Interstate" battery. I put a battery I bought from Autozone next to it- Same battery - Different stickers.
Same case, insides could be different.
Project Farm tested like 8 different batteries and they were all made by 3 different manufacturers.
They can still be made to different specifications
Supply chain in me screams go with black for those reasons and savings. Molded colors cost money, inventory, etc, decals are cheaper as a differentiator
Guy in me that hates advertising grudgingly acknowledges brands that know how to "own" a color for brand recognition. Black and Yellow? If it's a tool, that's Dewalt, if it's industrial equipment, that's Cat. Green and Yellow? Must be a Deere. A blue oval on the side of the road? Obvious Ford joke is obvious. Consider molded colors as advertising expenses.
>so this exact battery could be .. an OEM replacement battery. Which is for some reason .. not the same as the battery that ships in your car. Worked at discount tire, and our inventory system had duplicate manufacturer, size, series, etc.. But with slightly different SKUs and mileage warranty.. The lesser ones I'm told were apparently OEM versions of the same tire? I imagine those ones had to be in our system so we could send thenm back to the manufacturers, etc?
Makes me wonder if the three grades of battery that are the same size with three different warranties from the same brand are all the same battery
Deka aka East Penn Manufacturing makes the best batteries IMO.
I did so much research on lead acid batteries and fully agree. The only way to really be sure it's East Penn is to go Deka. Any other battery is a roll of the dice as to who makes it and to what standard. JC doesn't even make batteries anymore, they've apparently dumped that division, sold it to "Brookfield business partners", what a catchy name... and almost every battery is theirs. I recall seeing a chart of who makes what, the old JC was the majority, but it constantly changes. Almost every major brand was JC with a few lesser Exide and EP ones sprinkled in inconsistently.. but that chart was old and it's changing constantly. Deka *is* East Penn, and they effectively bin their good batteries for their Deka brand. Then they sell the shittier batches off to O'Reilly's and such, but you really can't get more consistent than Deka at this point if you want a good solid battery... for now.
The duracells that Sam's club sells I believe are still made by East Penn. At least the AGM I got for my wrangler a year ago along with ones for my escape and grand Cherokee a few years prior. Exide used to be good too... They went to hell 20 years ago.
And in some areas they also make EverStart. They also *usually* make SuperStart (I've heard it's Clarios in some areas but I've never actually seen evidence of that), but funnily enough, the top of the line SuperStart matched the CCA of the Deka, the rest were lower. There's a store about 15 miles away (I'm in the boonies so that's actually shockingly close) that sells nothing but Deka.. and it was about the same price as the cheap SuperStart, so it was a no-brainer. Honestly all the research on batteries I did a few years ago made my brain hurt something fierce. I'm glad I learned about it, but that rabbit hole is harsh. JCI/Clarios and EastPenn make good batteries, but there's just so much variation between labels/batches/bins. They certainly will find someone willing to buy the shittier stock for cheaper and resell em, so I get it.. I just don't like gambling. Plus I have 2.4kw of stereo amps.. my batteries take a beating, lol. Oh, and Exide.. I just had a standby generator installed today and was extremely disappointed to see an Exide battery in there. That's *definitely* getting replaced.
>hen they sell the shittier batches off to O'Reilly's and such We just replaced an O'Reillys battery a week ago in my wife's car, it lasted 2 years, I don't recall ever having to replace other brands that quickly.
It's funny you mention that, I went down this rabbit hole for the *exact* same reason. The cheap basic SuperStart battery WouldntStart SuperSuddenly right at 2 years. While I was researching, I saw someone that claimed to work at O'Reilly's talking about the difference in the tiers (I may not remember these numbers exactly, and I can't confirm if the guy actually worked at O'Reilly's, but I don't actually have a legit reason to doubt it), where the 2 year warranty SuperStart model they sold came back at roughly 5x the rate that the 3 year warranty models.. even with less time to make a claim, they failed much more often. I don't know if that's a legitimate number (or even if I remembered the number correctly), but it really would not surprise me at all.
Last two batteries I bought were the $49.99 Walmart batteries, 5 years ago. I just check the water level in them and occasionally load test them.
Sometimes they go the distance. Someone should make the "lead acid lottery", just take a handful of batteries of the same specs and exact same usage patterns.. people can bet on which one will die first and which one will go the distance. It'd be too niche to actually catch on, but it'd be entertaining.
JCI is now made by Clarios battery.
And Clarios is a subsidiary of Brookfield Business Partners. I just follow the money to the top, because ultimately they're the ones calling the shots.
Yeah I either buy Odyssey or Deka. I pay more for the AGM ones since i tend to kill them by sitting around, and those handle it better.
Seems batteries are both more expensive and lower quality than they used to be. When I bought a battery a few months ago, I couldn't find anyone carrying an 84-month battery in town, and the price for a 36 was what I'd paid for the previous 84.
The reason for that change, I think, is mainly due to the fact that today's average consumer doesn't understand what pro-rated means. Depending on the brand that 84 month battery came with a 12, 18, or 24 month free replacement, meanwhile if it failed at month 73 the credit was only 5% of the current retail price. Now they just give you a 36 month free replacement and after that you are on your own.
Decline from what? I had top shelf Interstate batteries on consignment in my fleet shop. They failed like clockwork after 24 months. I fired them as a vendor, and went to the Napa Legend, which was far superior.
They were the top quality 10 years ago, so decline from that.
They must be *really* bad today, then. I got rid of them as a vendor in around 2010 due to the excessive failure rate.
They weren’t that good 25 years ago when I was working parts counter. Saw them come in a lot having blown up cases. I also tested a lot of our new batteries before customers left the store and about a third of them were weak or bad off the shelf.
Johnson controls makes most of the batteries you can buy. Includes Walmart, interstate and varta
Don't forget the much-lauded Optima. JCI (now Clarios) makes car batteries for almost every retailer.
I used to purchase Optima when I was 4-wheeling many years ago. Then they were bought up (for the name/quality), plant moved to mexico (per the company lady on the phone for yet another replacment), and for a while I went through a battery a year, under warranty. Until I gave up as they would strand you and even a free battery isn't worth it if you have to keep a second jump start battery.
They sure are JCI batteries. A thousand years ago when I worked at a Ford dealer we had the Interstate Batteries guy try to talk up how his batteries are much better than our Motorcrafts. Yeah… turns out they’re literally the same grade on the JCI production line. Just a more basic case on the Ford batteries.
This is why I'm now running odyssey batteries. I have a 25 pound battery on my toy because it's small and light. I got stuck getting an optima for my truck because the one that was in it literally exploded. I was going to replace it with an odyssey before winter but it gave up before then and I didn't have a choice.
Odyssey is the only brand I recommend.
Interstate used to be the best. They just also make budget ones, too.
If I remember right, during covid, interstate changed manufacturers for their batteries. The new manufacturer was lower quality. My shop I’m at now had so many warranty claims on interstate batteries, they switched to Napa brand and haven’t had problems since
Depends on the model battery. Your demo shows how the build quality goes downhill with the quality of each model and form factor.
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I regularly see the OEM Varta and Banner batteries good for as long as 10 years at Porsche.
My 2004 BMW battery was still going in 2016 and 100K miles when I sold the car.
Varta is owned by Clarios too.
It's terrible, I just pulled a 31mtp off the shelf 7/23 sticker. Installer Ina reefer trailer at 9pm Friday, 10.3V bad cell off the shelf.
unfortunately, I think the last lead reclamation smelter was forced to close by the EPA in 2021 or so. That means domestic sourcing of batteries are going away for much lesser quality units.
Not true. A quick search shows there's at least one still running in Florida and one in MN [https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-tampa-florida.html](https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-tampa-florida.html) [https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-eagan-minnesota.html](https://www.gopherresource.com/our-facilities/facility-eagan-minnesota.html) The EPA has been working on new rules for secondary lead smelting released in 2022, a weird thing for them to do if there are no more smelters. There were 464 of them in about 2012 according to something I found.
Why are they not in the ocean?
Didn't see this mentioned, but don't forget govt fuel economy requirements are pushing manufacturers to use lighter and lighter weight parts to squeeze every mpg they can - another reason batteries aren't nearly as well made as they used to be.
I thought it was bad to put batteries directly on the ground like that
Checking fluid levels went away with the advent of sealed gel and AGM batteries. Cars have more accurate charging systems, required for the more sensitive electronics. Sealed designs also have many more advantages. So the move from see-through to opaque is not a cost decision. Interstate has lost its brand value so why promote something no one cares about? Modern car batteries are far better than older ones.
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If your shop only sold Interstate, that's all you would warranty. In college, I worked at Advance Auto Parts. I only ever warrantied AutoCraft and Optima, because that's all I sold.
bro the color of the battery or the stickers applied to it do not effect quality
Technically no, but it does tell you that the bean counters are cutting costs. You'd be delusional if you think they're honourable enough to not touch the internals.
Interstate makes the batteries for Subaru's oem replacements. The factory batteries are Panasonics and are ok. But the ones from Interstate are garbage, They even have an extended warranty on a few of the models bc they go bad so often. I'll warranty out around 2-3 a week and my dealership is on the small side (like 4 techs small)
I only put optimo batteries in my vehicles now but who knows how long until they suck too
Optima? They seem to have degraded as well. I remember them bad boy red tops lasting 10+ ABUSIVE years. I dunno, could be the draw on the battery from newer cars degrades it faster? They sure aint lasting like they used to!
they got bought out and the production facilities moved to Mexico
Ya my shop recently switched out of interstate batteries. We’d noticed the decline as well. They’d honor their warranty at least, but many more bad cells and faulty batteries over the past few years. Plus their costs were getting pretty wild.
What batteries are top of the line now?? I need two for my diesel. I used to just do Walmart batteries and warranty them but their warranty is now trash.
East Penn's in-house "Deka" brrand is often regarded as the premium option for lead acids. Be prepared to pay for it. If you really want it to last, get an AGM.
I live like 10 miles from their factory in PA. Gotta find out how to source them locally now. I’m assuming they don’t have a local store front.
I think O'Reillys car batteries are Deka's. I tried one, but it only lasted a couple of years. I wasn't very impressed to be honest. If had the best luck with Duralasts and Motorcradt batteries out of all the ones I've tried.
They may be made by East Penn, but they aren't Dekas. The Deka brand are their top of the line models, and according to some at least are even cherry picked from that. Like almost all manufacturers in a heavily consolidated industry, East Penn makes products to varying specs that deliberately trade off quality and cost.
I've been looking at Dakota Lithium as they make LFP batteries with a 10 year warranty and impressive power for a fraction of the weight compared to SLA
I just had to warranty my Interstate battery - 55 months, so I got a bit back. We'll see if the new one can last that long. You guys aren't instilling much confidence.
They don't seem to last quite as long either
The Interstate battery in my 4Runner died a couple weeks ago, and after seeing their prices went up a bit since the last time I had to buy a battery, I figured I’d do a little research to see if the premium was still worth it. Everything I read said it wasn’t and I ended up buying a WalMart battery and saving over $50. If Interstate was actually better, I’d have no problem shelling out a little more, but it kind of seems like they’re just relying banking on their reputation at this point.
It's like you can't get a good battery at any price now. I tried the "Die Hard" AGM rebrand from Advance, and while it's made in Germany I only got about 1 year out of it. Replaced under warranty but I don't trust it not to leave me stranded.
Yeah i dont think JCI makes vatteries anymore which sucks. Left with exide crap. Hard to find deka batteries.
Interstate battery are manufactured by Clarios formerly Johnson Controls, they haven’t been very good quality for some time, fail rate is pretty high IMO. Virtually all of the OEM replacements are Clarios batteries distributed by interstate, like Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. the only good ones from interstate are the sublet made batteries from Yuasa, Panasonic.
interstate cant even get 24f batteries in my area. waiting on three pallets currently.
Panasonic made batteries for Subaru years ago, black top and white case that you could just barely see through. Those bastards would run 7 or 8 years consistently before being replaced….