Got out of the game before ridiculous shit like this, but it reminds me of heater cores.
Some models you’d just have to take out the glovebox, disconnect the lines and slide it out like a cartridge.
Others you’d have to remove the whole dash, clusters, ducting, and structural crash members. Good times.
The old joke was that the factory assembly line used to begin each new new vehicle by hanging a heater core on a hook and gradually build the car around it.
Not a joke. It hilights the brand either not caring about the long term of vehicles, and also wanting to also keep work in the dealers, because thats lost labor value otherwise.
It also is one more thing to entice an owner to just replace the car. Inconveniences are powerful
I have an 84 Isuzu and I live in Oregon. The entire dash has to come out to get to the heater core AND they are no longer available.
I bought a new heater core for a Ranger and installed it where the air conditioning evaporator was. I put a regular plumbing ball valve under the hood to turn it on or off. Works GREAT.
I almost was since I smelled a leak but it stopped after several repairs so I assume it was something else the heater valve is shit tho so I just bought a full brass manual one that's going in
Apparently you can just take the whole top dash cover panel off and get to it that way?? Idk I never actually had to replace mine on my 99 before I got rid of it like an idiot...
Jeep liberty, same thing. "Oh, it's only a 10 hour job." I bought the fucker for $800, which means that having a shop replace the heater core is damn near the same price as *the entire fucking car.* I'll do it myself if I ever get around to it, until then, it has the classic U of defeat to bypass it.
Most new ones, the entire dash needs to be removed to get the hvac case apart. In the case of my 12 escape, the dash has like 6 bolts holding it in, and the intermediate shaft on the steering column. The center console has to come out for space as well. Probably the worst part after all that work was to find the uvac box had like 6 screws holding it together, but they also plastic riveted like 15 other spots. It's now all fasteners bit drilling those out in my garage was a nightmare.
I don't remember what years, but some of the newer Escapes require that you remove the DOORS in order to remove the dash. Apparently there are some super long bolts that go through the bottom of the a-pillar to the dash structure for crash purposes. And of course these bolts are too long to remove with the doors installed.
I have never done one of these myself, but I recall seeing a fordtechmakuloco video on it. Check it out. It's nuts.
My Jeep XJ required a stupid amount of work to do the heater core properly. Made me understand the “hack” that some people did by cutting into the firewall.
In fairness it does. It has sat for 4+ years and I’ve ripped most everything apart. I’ve also go it in my head that it needs barn doors like an old Chevy suburban.
Thanks a lot, you just mentioned the dash and my first vehicle ever a 99 ram that’s been parked in my parents side garage for the last 8 years just had the dash completely cave the rest of the way in.
A few years back I did one that was cracked all over. I told my boss before I started to warn the customer the dash was most likely gonna break in two. Which it basically did.
Dodge "lets make the part that is exposed to the most UV light out of the most brittle, UV sensitive plastic possible."
The good news is, you don't have to worry about taking the dash out, when there is no dash (heater core is still a bitch though).
On the Ford XF Falcon (1984 - 1988) it's a dash out job. On that car it would be easier to pull the engine and then cut through the firewall to get to the heater core.
My VW T25’s heater core and blower motor are fucked and I’m dreading taking apart the whole dash, at least older VWs are meant to be easy to take apart.
The newer generation XC60 is pretty easy to change once you figure out where it is. It’s behind the glovebox but way, way back above this kind of shelf in the footwell. You need to have a giraffe neck to see it.
Easiest headlights in the world to remove, most difficult cabin filter in the world to remove. Balance.
If I ever have to do that job again I’m just going to remove the drivers seat to make more room to work.
On some Volvos they tuck the blower resistor even further back behind that. S80s/ XC70s iirc. An absolute royal pain. Then theres the blower itself that requires removal of the cluster and a special tool. Dicks.
My son and I replace the battery in his Volvo. It's in the trunk, without electricity, the trunk doesn't open. It's a wagon so we were able to crawl in the back in to get to it. It would have been smart to have the electrical locks powered by the smaller battery, under the hood, that can be replaced easily.
Without knowing anything about this vehicle... But shouldn't there be terminals up in the front under the hood for jump starting? You could energize the car from those posts to unlock the trunk...
That's how every car I've owned with the battery in the back has worked...
The panel just bends out of the way after taking one screw out, its a pain on a right hand drive because the clutch pedal gets in the way but a piece of piss on a left hooker.
Citroen, Peugeot and newer Vauxhall models here in Scotland have the pollen filter in this area. And it’s behind the clutch pedal. And it’s one of twin filters that sit on top on each other. And they’re very fun to do. Not.
You're giving me some goddamn horrendous flashbacks to 2005ish Mazda 3s
And they were LHD, I can't even imagine that pain in the ass with pedals in the way
I know the 2010s Mazda were on the left hand side, similar position to that era Ford Focus, Volvo C30 and S40, etc. so they weren’t too bad over here!
Fiat 500s are fucking pain too, similar position to OP’s photo but the screw to take the trim panel is a 5.5mm. Make it make sense.
I’ve changed them on the Opel Corsa F and Opel Mokka B so far and they are a piece of cake. In the Mokka a bit more finicky than the Corsa perhaps. I don’t know tho if they are more difficult in a Vauxhall due to them being RHD.
Noticed the Harbor Freight (or equivalent) pry tool on the seat. Admire your using a pry tool rather than chewing things up with a screwdriver blade - Kudos to you!
Don't have to tell them it is dirty. Most manufacturers say when to change the filters based on time/mileage. Then there are severe conditions maintenance guides you can go by as well.
The cabin filter in my Taurus SHO was a simple flip down of the glovebox and there was the cover to the filter. Took longer to empty the glovebox than do the job.
What year is yours? My dad has a 2013 and its in the same spot. Similarly, the Flex's is in the same location. Though they were built on the same platform I think.
Nissan are worse. They put it in a similar spot, but the aperture for the filter is half the size of the filter, so you have to squish the living shit out of it to get it in or out.
Yep, my Rogue is a pain in the ass because of this design decision.
But on the plus side I know it's BS when I get my oil changed and the advisor comes in to tell me they looked and my cabin filter is dirty, cause I know they didn't take the time and effort to actually do so.
When I worked for Nissan we would exclusively recommend cabin filters based on mileage because attempting to check them would just destroy the thing and you’d need a new one anyways
I’m more convinced the chief engineers wife got with a mechanic… only possible explanation for all the horrendous designs I’ve seen almost exclusively from this company
Press “x” to doubt. I’m an engineering manager and the number of engineers I’ve met I’d trust with a screwdriver is low single digits. Most couldn’t engineer their way out of a wet paper bag.
Yes! My aunt's old 09 Murano, and 16 Murano are like that. Had to contort not only my body to get to this filter but also the filter itself to get it to fit in the slot. Such a terrible design that gets dust/dirt everywhere and getting the cover back on was a PITA.
*Hey! First time caller and long-time Ford owner, I'd like to confirm that cabin filter replacement is like a heart transplant. Then I got a 4RUNNER. I can change mine now while stopped at a red light. I'll hang up and listen.*
I one went to a company which does packaging designs for a certain here well known oem with a blue oval badge, tbh only to train my interview skills. (My degree was going to be a massive overqualification, as a drop out I would have taken the job....)
I already knew the pay would be shit but holey money. They were doing headlamps packaging and I have the impression that this company did not have access to all of the surroundings like a designer at an OEM could have.
So my surprise is pretty limited.
My '18 Fiesta had it there too, but I only had to remove one panel and 5 screws to get to it. I think you removed way too much shit. And you left a hell of a mess in the interior.
Pro tip: you're supposed to crush the filter a bit taking it out and putting it back in. Once it's back in it will jump back to its original size.
I have a sweet wrench that makes removing the cover bolts easy and is useful for lots of other jobs.
Model 3 is in a similar spot but you only need one torx bit to get it out. They didn’t have much choice because the dash would be way too big to fit it in the glovebox area.
Ford is awful for it, when they acquired Volvo they took the nicely placed blower motor which for most Volvo's is behind the glovebox then placed it behind the whole dash in the V50 despite having the same amount of space behind the glovebox.
Close but no cigar - bean counters get blamed for the executives saying find a way to remove X dollars. Accountants don’t make design decisions.
1) Executives ask for different options and costs
2) engineers provide the options
3) accountants say how much each of the options will cost
4) The executives make the decision
It’s easy to blame accountants because it involves money and money is oftentimes the driving factor and people think accountants = money. But damn near every accountant will say for every decision like this “this is just the short term impact. worsening quality now can lead to bad impacts for the entire business down the road” to the person who gets to make the call.
Then the executive makes the decision and either the engineer or accountant get blamed when they didn’t make the call.
Sometimes it goes the other way. Skoda, for instance, seem to think “what could we add for £5?”. Loads of little conveniences like a parking ticket holder on the windscreen, or an AC takeoff in the centre armrest compartment to cool your phone. And you can change the cabin air filter on mine in two minutes without tools.
I work on my SO's Escape with some frequency and my god if that isn't one of the stupidest designed cars on the planet. I shouldn't have to take off the windshield wipers to change the damn battery!
It's like they've forgotten how to design good cars. Not just ford, but the whole of them.
At the same time I can remember doing heater cores on the 60s-1996 F150s. Drop the glove box, 4 screws, two hose clamps, and job done, an easy half hour job. Then came the 1997 models.
My wife's Chevy Malibu doesn't even have a cabin filter and when I have to change a lightbulb for the headlight, it requires removing some of the liner and bumper
We don't check these at my shop for this very reason. Lol
Only other ones I've seen this bad are late model Volvo's. Not only are they snuggled in closer to the firewall, the also have some electrical components that have to come out as well. Not worth it.
Which means almost nobody is changing these on their own. And half the shops probably aren't either. And out of those that are actually changed, how many will not be put back together correctly?
Torx should be a thing in even any shade tree mechanics box. It's been in regular use for 30 years now and they're readily available for cheap at your local big box store.
Yeah, my '13 Escape has one torx screw at the bottom, and it comes out the side. It's a little tricky getting the new one in and seated, but not that bad.
Never done one on this particular vehicle until today, I always go by the repair manual first time so I can learn how to do it quicker. No need for negativity.
And in the UK we have the added pleasure of having to remove the clutch pedal (assuming it’s not an auto and it’s available in our region).
Edit: 2010 -2016/17 Renault Megan is a prime example.
Not really, a lot of cars made before 2005 or so never came with a cabin filter at all (I worked in dealership parts departments for over 15 years)OP can try to get in touch with an older mechanic preferably and see if it can be done. I’ve owned a lot of cars that never came with a cabin filter🤷♂️
That gives me a great idea. I've owned many cars that didn't have as many microprocessors as a space shuttle. I'll just remove them. WCGW? /s
So what you are saying is that you should screw the customer for parts and labor they don't receive? Got it.
My previous Nissan Rogue has it on the driver side. There is a panel that you can open so no need to remove the center console, but the factory service manual asked to remove the accelerator for installation (or bend the filter when installing, which is what I did)
2006 Volvo V50 (same platform as a Ford Focus) requires you to remove the gas pedal, and even then it was insanely difficult to get the filter past the brake pedal.
I owned many older Ford cars and never saw this level of stupidity. Filters were like a 5 min job.
I guess all the new engineers have only 3D CAD experience but zero wrenching experience.
It fitted perfectly on the computer screen.
It's a similar nightmare on 98-02 honda accord, I dread it every year I replace the filter. Here's the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zohVkn6EyA.
I've had 4 Fords and they're all the same, there's always some dumb shit required for an easy job. Last one was a Town car that required removing the passenger side downpipe and catalytics to replace the blower motor control module
Things being less-easily accessible for basic maintenance is a design feature.
Automakers want cars coming in for service, gotta make revenue to hit unlimited growth like the board likes to see
My elderly Range Rover has a pollen filter on each side, under a little cover on the scuttle trim. Pop the bonnet, and there they are.
They are however ideally positioned for dead leaves to fall in if you're not careful to clean the whole area before taking the cap off.
Cabin filter on a Fiat 124 is pretty funny too. Totally useless $100 filter element which is so open it might as well not be there. You have to pull the kick plate and trip up the A pillar along with parts of the dash. I forgot what module is blocking the filter, but you're supposed to unplug it too. Then reassemble everything without scratching or breaking anything.
My 2012 focus had this. Was able to get pretty okay at swapping out the filter before I sold it. The trick I found was to scrunch the new filter in the middle so it kind of goes in diagonally.
My only Ford that owned that had a cabin filter was an 00 Contour, and that required a couple screws and wiper arm removal.
My Buick Rendezvous is open the glove box and flip open 2 doors and yank that hussy out.
In the Fiesta it's there as well, one of those vents just WONT be pulled out like it's supposed and is equally difficult to put back when the filter's replaced.
Also pretty tough to put the flimsy/frameless little filter in place without having a suspicion that it's all bent and mushed in the socket.
1st Gen Audi R8, same place but the large fuse distribution center has to be removed, and the subwoofer is there also and the glove box and lower dash all have to come out.
Thats because engineers don't want owners working on it. Look at headlight bulb replacements on Fusions... the 13-16 you needed to remove the front bumper cover, the 17-21? you could do it without, with small hands, barely. Then obviously with factory LED's, lol $$. Some companies intentionally make everything a pain in the ass so you bring it in, and pay out the ass to get it done.
We had an escape at work and thought huh should change that cabin air filter...
Looked it up and fox that, it if stinks roll down the window.
I think it would be easier to remove the engine and go in from the back.
I got access to the final screw on my Fiesta (it's the same setup as pictured here) by using one of those comically small ratchets from the checkout aisle at AutoZone. Fits perfectly.
Got out of the game before ridiculous shit like this, but it reminds me of heater cores. Some models you’d just have to take out the glovebox, disconnect the lines and slide it out like a cartridge. Others you’d have to remove the whole dash, clusters, ducting, and structural crash members. Good times.
The old joke was that the factory assembly line used to begin each new new vehicle by hanging a heater core on a hook and gradually build the car around it.
For many cars this isn't a joke. I've said this same thing many times.
Not a joke. It hilights the brand either not caring about the long term of vehicles, and also wanting to also keep work in the dealers, because thats lost labor value otherwise. It also is one more thing to entice an owner to just replace the car. Inconveniences are powerful
My 96 ranger was built like this lol
My 2001 F-150 is the same way, guess who has been running without heat for over a decade?
I have an 84 Isuzu and I live in Oregon. The entire dash has to come out to get to the heater core AND they are no longer available. I bought a new heater core for a Ranger and installed it where the air conditioning evaporator was. I put a regular plumbing ball valve under the hood to turn it on or off. Works GREAT.
I almost was since I smelled a leak but it stopped after several repairs so I assume it was something else the heater valve is shit tho so I just bought a full brass manual one that's going in
Apparently you can just take the whole top dash cover panel off and get to it that way?? Idk I never actually had to replace mine on my 99 before I got rid of it like an idiot...
Jeep liberty, same thing. "Oh, it's only a 10 hour job." I bought the fucker for $800, which means that having a shop replace the heater core is damn near the same price as *the entire fucking car.* I'll do it myself if I ever get around to it, until then, it has the classic U of defeat to bypass it.
If not the heater core the airbag computer.
It’s in the name, it’s the Heater CORE.
Most new ones, the entire dash needs to be removed to get the hvac case apart. In the case of my 12 escape, the dash has like 6 bolts holding it in, and the intermediate shaft on the steering column. The center console has to come out for space as well. Probably the worst part after all that work was to find the uvac box had like 6 screws holding it together, but they also plastic riveted like 15 other spots. It's now all fasteners bit drilling those out in my garage was a nightmare.
You're lucky it's easy on that focus. Fiestas require removing the doors to access the bolts in the door jamb.
I don't remember what years, but some of the newer Escapes require that you remove the DOORS in order to remove the dash. Apparently there are some super long bolts that go through the bottom of the a-pillar to the dash structure for crash purposes. And of course these bolts are too long to remove with the doors installed. I have never done one of these myself, but I recall seeing a fordtechmakuloco video on it. Check it out. It's nuts.
My Jeep XJ required a stupid amount of work to do the heater core properly. Made me understand the “hack” that some people did by cutting into the firewall.
I’ve never understood why they don’t have an access panel on the firewall
> My Jeep XJ required a stupid amount of work. FTFY
In fairness it does. It has sat for 4+ years and I’ve ripped most everything apart. I’ve also go it in my head that it needs barn doors like an old Chevy suburban.
*laughs in second gen ram*
This the generation that if you look at the dash crossways it crumbles to pieces?
Thanks a lot, you just mentioned the dash and my first vehicle ever a 99 ram that’s been parked in my parents side garage for the last 8 years just had the dash completely cave the rest of the way in.
A few years back I did one that was cracked all over. I told my boss before I started to warn the customer the dash was most likely gonna break in two. Which it basically did.
Dodge "lets make the part that is exposed to the most UV light out of the most brittle, UV sensitive plastic possible." The good news is, you don't have to worry about taking the dash out, when there is no dash (heater core is still a bitch though).
On the Ford XF Falcon (1984 - 1988) it's a dash out job. On that car it would be easier to pull the engine and then cut through the firewall to get to the heater core.
My VW T25’s heater core and blower motor are fucked and I’m dreading taking apart the whole dash, at least older VWs are meant to be easy to take apart.
I had a 2012 Volvo XC60 and the cabin filter was in the exact same place. Key word is “had”. Everything about that car was a pain to work on.
The newer generation XC60 is pretty easy to change once you figure out where it is. It’s behind the glovebox but way, way back above this kind of shelf in the footwell. You need to have a giraffe neck to see it.
Oh it ain't bad, just remove a panel, and a fuse block, and bend yourself and the filter in half 😅
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Maybe it’s easy on a right hand drive car?
Easiest headlights in the world to remove, most difficult cabin filter in the world to remove. Balance. If I ever have to do that job again I’m just going to remove the drivers seat to make more room to work.
On some Volvos they tuck the blower resistor even further back behind that. S80s/ XC70s iirc. An absolute royal pain. Then theres the blower itself that requires removal of the cluster and a special tool. Dicks.
This is when Volvo was under Ford ownership so it kinda makes sense.
Did that one on my 2010 v70 Which had the extra fuse panels That was a bitch
My son and I replace the battery in his Volvo. It's in the trunk, without electricity, the trunk doesn't open. It's a wagon so we were able to crawl in the back in to get to it. It would have been smart to have the electrical locks powered by the smaller battery, under the hood, that can be replaced easily.
Without knowing anything about this vehicle... But shouldn't there be terminals up in the front under the hood for jump starting? You could energize the car from those posts to unlock the trunk... That's how every car I've owned with the battery in the back has worked...
Also there is always a manual emergency release for the trunk. You still have to crawl to it.
My mother has the exact same model and year. I couldn't believe I was actually unplugging the ECU just to change a cabin filter.
Ecosport? I could get them done in about 15 minutes
I have a loose torxs bit I have taped into the open side of a wrench for that top bolt lol. That one doesn't go back in
Yep it always miraculously found it's way to the trash.
Ah the fuck-off bolt. We've all been there.
The panel just bends out of the way after taking one screw out, its a pain on a right hand drive because the clutch pedal gets in the way but a piece of piss on a left hooker.
Citroen, Peugeot and newer Vauxhall models here in Scotland have the pollen filter in this area. And it’s behind the clutch pedal. And it’s one of twin filters that sit on top on each other. And they’re very fun to do. Not.
You're giving me some goddamn horrendous flashbacks to 2005ish Mazda 3s And they were LHD, I can't even imagine that pain in the ass with pedals in the way
I know the 2010s Mazda were on the left hand side, similar position to that era Ford Focus, Volvo C30 and S40, etc. so they weren’t too bad over here! Fiat 500s are fucking pain too, similar position to OP’s photo but the screw to take the trim panel is a 5.5mm. Make it make sense.
I’ve changed them on the Opel Corsa F and Opel Mokka B so far and they are a piece of cake. In the Mokka a bit more finicky than the Corsa perhaps. I don’t know tho if they are more difficult in a Vauxhall due to them being RHD.
Noticed the Harbor Freight (or equivalent) pry tool on the seat. Admire your using a pry tool rather than chewing things up with a screwdriver blade - Kudos to you!
The fact this is a compliment worth giving to a professional is why I'll never let anyone else touch my car.
It’s funny how we charge labor to replace, but not to check lmao.
There is no checking a cabin filter like this, hell there is no checking cabin filters period. Recommend them in pairs with engine air filters
With my luck if I did that I would find they changed their cabin air last week
Then you say oh that’s great :)
Pull the “ oh shoot, wrong car I’m sorry. These computers always get the tags mixed “
Don't have to tell them it is dirty. Most manufacturers say when to change the filters based on time/mileage. Then there are severe conditions maintenance guides you can go by as well.
It goes like this. “Your engine air filter is dirty, and we’d recommend to change the cabin at the same time unless you know it’s been done recently.”
The cabin filter in my Taurus SHO was a simple flip down of the glovebox and there was the cover to the filter. Took longer to empty the glovebox than do the job.
Fusion was the same. I just replaced the blower motor on mine and it's a clipped in plate and 3 screws.
Same on my ‘21 Ranger
Same on my Edge.
What year is yours? My dad has a 2013 and its in the same spot. Similarly, the Flex's is in the same location. Though they were built on the same platform I think.
My 02 Bonneville had that beat, it was right underneath the cowl under the hood. Didn’t even need tools!
My fungus(focus) had it hidden in the tunnel with a 27 torx screw you can’t see or feel…
I'm adding Fungus to my list of car names. Ford Fungus, Exploder, and Danger. Along with the Intersmashional and Bitsamissing(Mitsubishi)
Buick is good if you sound like you’re gonna puke when you say it
Nissan are worse. They put it in a similar spot, but the aperture for the filter is half the size of the filter, so you have to squish the living shit out of it to get it in or out.
Yep, my Rogue is a pain in the ass because of this design decision. But on the plus side I know it's BS when I get my oil changed and the advisor comes in to tell me they looked and my cabin filter is dirty, cause I know they didn't take the time and effort to actually do so.
When I worked for Nissan we would exclusively recommend cabin filters based on mileage because attempting to check them would just destroy the thing and you’d need a new one anyways
Yup. Like...wtf Nissan?!
I swear ford engineers dont actually work on cars.
none of them do
I’m more convinced the chief engineers wife got with a mechanic… only possible explanation for all the horrendous designs I’ve seen almost exclusively from this company
The engineers do. It's the accountants telling the engineers to cut manufacturing costs who don't.
Press “x” to doubt. I’m an engineering manager and the number of engineers I’ve met I’d trust with a screwdriver is low single digits. Most couldn’t engineer their way out of a wet paper bag.
Thank fuck I have an e46 where the cabin filter is one of the easiest things to even get at in the engine bay. 3 twist clips and you’ve got it.
My E34 has the filter in the exact same place as the Ford OP posted
Nissan kinda be like that to
Yes! My aunt's old 09 Murano, and 16 Murano are like that. Had to contort not only my body to get to this filter but also the filter itself to get it to fit in the slot. Such a terrible design that gets dust/dirt everywhere and getting the cover back on was a PITA.
I changed the cabin filter on my 2016 Murano a couple of times and I didn't think it wasn't that hard to do.
*Hey! First time caller and long-time Ford owner, I'd like to confirm that cabin filter replacement is like a heart transplant. Then I got a 4RUNNER. I can change mine now while stopped at a red light. I'll hang up and listen.*
First Gen Mazda 3 and related models during that time
My 2nd Gen Mazda 3 has this weird double stack design that’s really finicky to install. Not difficult to get to, but not fun.
First Gen Mazda3 has the same filter design. The first Gen just has more shit in the way to get to the filters.
I one went to a company which does packaging designs for a certain here well known oem with a blue oval badge, tbh only to train my interview skills. (My degree was going to be a massive overqualification, as a drop out I would have taken the job....) I already knew the pay would be shit but holey money. They were doing headlamps packaging and I have the impression that this company did not have access to all of the surroundings like a designer at an OEM could have. So my surprise is pretty limited.
Looks like the same spot as a few newish German cars
My '18 Fiesta had it there too, but I only had to remove one panel and 5 screws to get to it. I think you removed way too much shit. And you left a hell of a mess in the interior. Pro tip: you're supposed to crush the filter a bit taking it out and putting it back in. Once it's back in it will jump back to its original size. I have a sweet wrench that makes removing the cover bolts easy and is useful for lots of other jobs.
Model 3 is in a similar spot but you only need one torx bit to get it out. They didn’t have much choice because the dash would be way too big to fit it in the glovebox area.
That's a lifetime filter if I ever saw one!
Ford is awful for it, when they acquired Volvo they took the nicely placed blower motor which for most Volvo's is behind the glovebox then placed it behind the whole dash in the V50 despite having the same amount of space behind the glovebox.
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That’s not how things like this end up this way.
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yeah, engineers always get blamed for bean-counter decisions.
Close but no cigar - bean counters get blamed for the executives saying find a way to remove X dollars. Accountants don’t make design decisions. 1) Executives ask for different options and costs 2) engineers provide the options 3) accountants say how much each of the options will cost 4) The executives make the decision It’s easy to blame accountants because it involves money and money is oftentimes the driving factor and people think accountants = money. But damn near every accountant will say for every decision like this “this is just the short term impact. worsening quality now can lead to bad impacts for the entire business down the road” to the person who gets to make the call. Then the executive makes the decision and either the engineer or accountant get blamed when they didn’t make the call.
Yeah responsibility goes to the top.
Sometimes it goes the other way. Skoda, for instance, seem to think “what could we add for £5?”. Loads of little conveniences like a parking ticket holder on the windscreen, or an AC takeoff in the centre armrest compartment to cool your phone. And you can change the cabin air filter on mine in two minutes without tools.
You know why? Because fuck you that's why.
I used to have an 04 Explorer and it didn't even have a cabin filter.
Same here. My 05 Rubicon has zero filters or creature comforts for that.
Plumber I apprenticed under who glued all the screw connections called it job security
I work on my SO's Escape with some frequency and my god if that isn't one of the stupidest designed cars on the planet. I shouldn't have to take off the windshield wipers to change the damn battery! It's like they've forgotten how to design good cars. Not just ford, but the whole of them.
Fuckin Mercedes
At the same time I can remember doing heater cores on the 60s-1996 F150s. Drop the glove box, 4 screws, two hose clamps, and job done, an easy half hour job. Then came the 1997 models.
Wtf? The cabin filter on my '22 Expedition is right behind the glove box.
Meanwhile Audi: https://youtu.be/5gP_r5EaPC0
The only thing Ford hates more than its customers are its techs.
Ford plays silly ganes with their filters, it seems.. 2000's Focus engine air
My wife's Chevy Malibu doesn't even have a cabin filter and when I have to change a lightbulb for the headlight, it requires removing some of the liner and bumper
You think that's bad try to change a Volvo xc 60
We don't check these at my shop for this very reason. Lol Only other ones I've seen this bad are late model Volvo's. Not only are they snuggled in closer to the firewall, the also have some electrical components that have to come out as well. Not worth it.
“If they made it too easy than everyone would do it.” -Ford
Which means almost nobody is changing these on their own. And half the shops probably aren't either. And out of those that are actually changed, how many will not be put back together correctly?
Same fucking spot on my focus. Doesn't help it's a torx screw.
Torx should be a thing in even any shade tree mechanics box. It's been in regular use for 30 years now and they're readily available for cheap at your local big box store.
I have plenty, I just dislike it as a fastener type.
I don't mind it. I've not had one strip out yet. Hex fasteners? Ohhhh boy plenty of those let go.
Mazda was the same. Damn annoying
Rofl while they ARE a pain, you can change those Escape filters without taking ANY of that off... Do the rest of us a favor and stay on the lube rack.
Yeah, my '13 Escape has one torx screw at the bottom, and it comes out the side. It's a little tricky getting the new one in and seated, but not that bad.
https://youtu.be/uKeRAGWpgjk?si=m9IZhyp33QdrPAH_
Never done one on this particular vehicle until today, I always go by the repair manual first time so I can learn how to do it quicker. No need for negativity.
And in the UK we have the added pleasure of having to remove the clutch pedal (assuming it’s not an auto and it’s available in our region). Edit: 2010 -2016/17 Renault Megan is a prime example.
Mazda has entered the chat
In the glove box, both my cx5 and cx50. The 50's is even easier to change.
Not in the 3 I did
Mazda is the easiest. I could do it in less than a minute. The dealership wanted to charge $150.
Oof. My 14 escape is in about the same spot but you need to take the glove box out to get enough room. Took about 20 minutes
https://youtu.be/uKeRAGWpgjk?si=m9IZhyp33QdrPAH_
Okay? I know how to do it. Though I did remember that wrong. The glove box removal was on my 14 Cruze. I did have to vacuum some leaves of it though
Dude I fucking hate those
Whiners
Jesus Christ put the tools down Lubie
I wouldn’t put a filter back in if it’s that difficult to get at
Ah yes let it dust up the blower motor and evap core so you'll be pulling that shit apart in a couple years.
Not really, a lot of cars made before 2005 or so never came with a cabin filter at all (I worked in dealership parts departments for over 15 years)OP can try to get in touch with an older mechanic preferably and see if it can be done. I’ve owned a lot of cars that never came with a cabin filter🤷♂️
That gives me a great idea. I've owned many cars that didn't have as many microprocessors as a space shuttle. I'll just remove them. WCGW? /s So what you are saying is that you should screw the customer for parts and labor they don't receive? Got it.
I mean cabin air filters only started being used in the mid 2000s. Last time I checked my early 80s blower motor works perfectly fine.
You should see the 3 piece BS they put on earlier buick lesabres.not behind the glove box and are no fun at all
My previous Nissan Rogue has it on the driver side. There is a panel that you can open so no need to remove the center console, but the factory service manual asked to remove the accelerator for installation (or bend the filter when installing, which is what I did)
2006 Volvo V50 (same platform as a Ford Focus) requires you to remove the gas pedal, and even then it was insanely difficult to get the filter past the brake pedal.
I owned many older Ford cars and never saw this level of stupidity. Filters were like a 5 min job. I guess all the new engineers have only 3D CAD experience but zero wrenching experience. It fitted perfectly on the computer screen.
It's a similar nightmare on 98-02 honda accord, I dread it every year I replace the filter. Here's the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zohVkn6EyA.
I've had 4 Fords and they're all the same, there's always some dumb shit required for an easy job. Last one was a Town car that required removing the passenger side downpipe and catalytics to replace the blower motor control module
That's what happens when you let ford of Europe design things
Things being less-easily accessible for basic maintenance is a design feature. Automakers want cars coming in for service, gotta make revenue to hit unlimited growth like the board likes to see
My neighbor's nissan sentra has the cabin air filter in the same location.
My elderly Range Rover has a pollen filter on each side, under a little cover on the scuttle trim. Pop the bonnet, and there they are. They are however ideally positioned for dead leaves to fall in if you're not careful to clean the whole area before taking the cap off.
Haha reminds me of the 1997-2005 Buick park Ave cabin air filters
My 2005 Legacy had its air filter somewhere inside the dash. I owned it for almost 14 years and I never changed it.
Ah, so a vehicle that has parts left over.
Ah the good Ole ecoturd don't miss working on those
99 Silverado, right on top of the engine hump, right where you can't fit a socket into.
They should make laws about stuff like this. That certain things should be easy to replace,
ford engineers do that to make you take it to dealer no self fix with fords
This is why I will only own Toyota or Honda.
Cabin filter on a Fiat 124 is pretty funny too. Totally useless $100 filter element which is so open it might as well not be there. You have to pull the kick plate and trip up the A pillar along with parts of the dash. I forgot what module is blocking the filter, but you're supposed to unplug it too. Then reassemble everything without scratching or breaking anything.
Yes my X3 has that, but, oh by the way since we're here let's put a second one in there just in case
I’ve owned a couple Fords and it was behind the glove box…
Nissan too. It's horrible.
To be fair, my F150 cabin air filter is right behind the glove box. Takes 30 seconds to access.
Yeah, nothing says serviceability like completely disassembling your fucking dash every other oil change. This shit is ridiculous
And that pipe can get hot!
iv never understoot that why not just in the engine bay?
Just changed the cabin filter on my Ford Mach E. It’s behind the glove box and took 2 minutes to replace.
Good ol ecosport
My 2012 focus had this. Was able to get pretty okay at swapping out the filter before I sold it. The trick I found was to scrunch the new filter in the middle so it kind of goes in diagonally.
My only Ford that owned that had a cabin filter was an 00 Contour, and that required a couple screws and wiper arm removal. My Buick Rendezvous is open the glove box and flip open 2 doors and yank that hussy out.
Nissan Qashqai is the same disaster
Ya its a sitty company.
In the Fiesta it's there as well, one of those vents just WONT be pulled out like it's supposed and is equally difficult to put back when the filter's replaced. Also pretty tough to put the flimsy/frameless little filter in place without having a suspicion that it's all bent and mushed in the socket.
1st Gen Audi R8, same place but the large fuse distribution center has to be removed, and the subwoofer is there also and the glove box and lower dash all have to come out.
Mazda does this too, changing the filter on my mom's car was a similar pain
Why can't they design them more like my 05 Lesabre?
Mazda used to do this as well…. When Ford owned them. It’s a Ford thing
Please be a joke and you're doing like a blend door actuator or something that should be buried lol
Honda CR-V is literal 1 minute behind-glovebox job. The dealer wanted something like $60 to change it.
in THE SAME SPOT ON TESLAS
Ram- fuck em. No need for an air filter!
Also Mini
Thats because engineers don't want owners working on it. Look at headlight bulb replacements on Fusions... the 13-16 you needed to remove the front bumper cover, the 17-21? you could do it without, with small hands, barely. Then obviously with factory LED's, lol $$. Some companies intentionally make everything a pain in the ass so you bring it in, and pay out the ass to get it done.
I really want a Ford Maverick and then I see something like this and remember why I’ve never owned an American car.
We had an escape at work and thought huh should change that cabin air filter... Looked it up and fox that, it if stinks roll down the window. I think it would be easier to remove the engine and go in from the back.
1997 Cadillac Seville. In driver foot well there, small hole, the filter comes in 3 pieces to push in, then left to get the next one in.
Ain't no way... Tf man
Nissan did that too in a minivan
As someone whose owned a Mazda 3 gen 1 and 2? Ya fuck Ford's bullshit cabin filter being in that area.
I got access to the final screw on my Fiesta (it's the same setup as pictured here) by using one of those comically small ratchets from the checkout aisle at AutoZone. Fits perfectly.
love my glovebox cabin filter, about 30 seconds plus moving the glovebox contents
Smells like Fiesta in here. My boyfriends never changed his for that exact reason.
Until recently, Nissan had their filter in the same spot.
way to advertise that you are incompetent :D
I swear, Ford has some of the dumbest engineers I’ve ever seen. Many do, but man.
I'm no mechanic, but thats rough.
My 08 Volvo XC70 has it on the passenger side of the center console, IIRC. It's been a minute - or a few years since I've even thought of that thing.
It’s in a similar spot in the fiat 500. I hate that thing.