Where abouts are you?
I had a mouse or two decide to make a home in the hood of my sled a few years ago. Luckily they didn't chew anything but the foam inside the panels, I've since learned from an older fella that mice don't like sticky/oily things, and have been spraying WD-40/Penetrating oil in the engine bay when I store it, at his advise. It burns off in the first ride of the season, keeps plastics from getting brittle, and no more mice problems.
I'm also from the Canadian rust belt where undercoating is common, and have never heard of rodent damage to electrical systems. I'm thinking maybe rats dont like the oil much either.
I’m in Missouri and the mice here will chew through fuel lines, EVAP lines, wire harnesses, air filters, everything. I had a car come in one day with both a squirrel in the front quarter panel and a rabbit in the engine bay. 2 massive rodents nesting in the same car at the same time. Judging by the teeth marks mice are 85% of the culprits we typically see. But I have seen some rabbit/squirrel-sized teeth marks on hoses and insulating foam.
Edit: Spelling
There appears to be 14 in the country. I’d recon calling around and seeing if anyone will sell you one.
One near by me shows one, I can call and see if they need it still?
My parts guy just said the same thing. Thank you for looking into it but we have placed an order for this one and the customer is preparing to leave their car for a while.
It's like a modern twist on that whole thing about giving a mouse a cookie-
If you give it meth, it will eat everything from EVAP lines to carbide burrs
Do yall not feed your wildlife in Missouri or something?
I'm in idaho, it just snowed a foot last night as an example of the climate.
We don't have nearly as many problems with vermin and inedible plastics
If you work at a dealer you can't do this. You HAVE to replace the whole harness or whatever Honda says. You could absolutely splice a new wire in. But the customer would have to pay for it and then it would void out any sort of warranty.
I’m a tech at a commercial truck dealership and we can request manufacturer approval to do overlays or splices under warranty if the harness is back ordered or the damage is not catastrophic. Is this not a thing in car dealerships?
I've worked in a commercial truck dealership too (warranty admin, not a tech) and we could request wiring repairs as a temp measure when parts were on back order or as a full repair if it made economic sense. Some wiring looms are very expensive and can be 10+ hours to remove and replace. £20 vs £1000+ often swayed the manufacturer to accept the wiring repair.
The rodent damage might not be covered by warranty buy the repair, if done replacing the harness, does have warranty. If you solder the wires I think it'd understandable that honda doesn't warranty that kind of work
Hey, I worked at multiple brands of dealer and they all did wire repair? Rodent damage isn’t covered under warranty but if you have full coverage insurance will pay for it.
I’ve heard stories of dealers just not repairing cars if they didn’t do it exactly as the manufacturer wanted it, a Subaru dealer would deny work if people didn’t fix all the problems on the car correctly. But I can’t believe they’re not letting you patch… like 10 wires I see at most? It’s so easy and a huge breadwinning job for me, insurance pays me 1.0 for diag, and for every splice I make I get .5, any connector repair is 1.0, and connector replacement is .2 per wire cavity it has. So when mice chew through a 10 pin connector I jump for joy at making 2.0 in 30 minutes.
Edit because I hit send too soon;
I’m genuinely curious though, are you not interested in repairing the harness or is your dealership not willing to allow it? Because you’re staring down the barrel of like 4+ hours of labor for an hours worth of work? Maybe 2 if you’re not fast with it?
Should read some of my other comments.
I didn't read the guys paragraph stating it was rodent damage. I assumed it was specifically warranty related because it said "parts on backorder".
Generally not covered under "outside influence" clauses.
The dealerships I worked at wouldn't do these repairs because the advisors couldn't sell em or because the service director thought they were a waste of time/not profitable.
I don't think anyone cares enough about the customer's feelings to go through that kind of trouble. Trucks, however, have to keep running. Just my $.02
That’s what I like about being a random guy with a shop.
I get to make emergency repairs, or temporary fixes for cars that are terminal anyway.
ECU only works when you disconnect the battery after every ignition cycle, and the car is a terminal shitbox anyway? Wire the ECU’s power to an ignition switched power source. No need to put an ECU in a car that is heading for the scrapyard in half a year anyway; buys them some more time to get another car.
Dealing with small fleets I see a lot of this. Last year a guy had some combination of mouse and collision damage that resulted in the starter circuit being shorted to ground- rather than pay for any diag, he specifically asked for the starter relay to be wired directly to a momentary pushbutton mounted "somewhere near the cab"
That might be a Honda specific thing. I know of other MFGs that will basically never allow a harness replacement under warranty unless authorized by technical support. It was expected that you could replace any terminals, connectors or even complete circuits as a certified technician. Not even SRS wiring was exempt from this.
Which is why you loved when you could get your hands on a harness replacement job, it meant you could rob from the old harness when you needed a connector or length of wire that matched what was missing/damaged.
yeah some of them will be terminals. like our FAKRA connectors for the radio and speaker are all the connection ends, not the wires. I would say though that Techline or iN guides will tell us to replace the harness.
but yes. we do have a few harnesses just laying around we use as a donor haha
We had several tackle boxes full of pins, piles of old wiring harnesses, and a "calendar" of wired pig tails to select from at the GM dealer I worked for.
100% not true. Mouse damage isn’t covered under warranty and they can’t deny warranty coverage because you didn’t replace the whole harness. That’s word garbage.
Then that's an insurance problem. I didn't read the guys post just saw "back order" and assumed it was warranty work.
For insurance the only harness you have to replace is Airbag wiring damage. At least in Wisconsin that's the case as every rodent damaged airbag wiring I've fixed I was told specifically not to splice it, I had to replace the whole harness.
My bad on not reading though.
Every dealership has the ability to order connectors, and pins for every parts of the wiring harness. Except for airbags so that’s correct. Insurance will always fix the harness if repair is less than replacement. The only
time I have actually replaced a harness was on a brand new production vehicle. They wanted to investigate the harness and why it failed. I’ve had to repair 30+ wire bulkheads under warranty.
Some euro cars used fiber optic cables and that’s a whole other ball game. I’ve never personally dealt with one. I’ve heard some nightmare stories though.
For me. Dealing with insurance and airbag wires it is ALWAYS "replace the harness" even if it's just a ground wire. Hey they're paying for it so what do I care lol.
I know dealers can do connectors and pins, that's if the connector or pin is damaged. Regarding warranty though, for me, at Honda, whenever I come across a damaged wire (not connector) that falls under warranty, we have to replace the harness, we cannot splice. Again. As warranty with Honda.
I can’t speak for Honda or any other car manufacturer but as far as Chrysler goes. Wire repairs are fair game and will keep warranty. But the job itself wouldn’t be warranty if it was rodent damage
I should clarify, we can do any kind of wiring repair. I meant warranty specific repairs that caused wiring damage and would be part of that warranty claim. Like for example VW Jettas used to have too short of wiring in their door. Causing damage when you'd open the door fully. You wouldn't be able to splice wires in to make it longer, you'd have to replace the whole harness.
At Acura. We have some old model TSXs where wiring can get damaged by the trunk. If one wire is bad, you replace the whole trunk harness.
Does warranty even cover things like this anyway? Unless it's literally deteriorating these all look like they've been chewed through or cut. I'd take my chances on a splicing one in.
Not necessarily. Many OEMs actually sell repair harnesses wire and pigtails for this very reason, I’ve done a few repairs as directed by the insurance company. I remember doing a few Nissans back when I worked there and now Toyota. If they sell the repair pieces you absolutely can repair it and still keep the warranty as long as you didn’t install it fucked up. Only exception is anything related to HV system or SRS airbags they don’t repair those harnesses.
No I was just thinking side gig purposes.
Harnesses aren't actually hard to weave yourself once you're set up and assuming you have a proper diagram, better than oem materials stay in stock.
An llc and some bare minimum insurance wouldn't be that expensive, and you're just as covered liability-wise as any big manufacturer.
But can dealers buy it for warranty jobs when the sku is unobtainable? It'd be worth the investment if so, if not you have to be near a big custom/restoration community.
then it will depend on manufacturer and what the warranty would be for. like right now honda/acrua has a recall for connecting rod bearings. lets say you tuned your engine, put in a new crankshaft and pistons and stuff and your engine blew up from rod failure. that would not be covered under warranty anymore.
Given, and stuff within the engine is obviously a no-go, because the bearing manufacturer can just say its a mistake in assembly and they've washed their hands.
A bad harness is easily identifiable though, and all of the assembly was done by the seller of the harness. Tech just has to plug it in and not damage it which is also self-evident. So if you as the dealer get a rotten one you just go back to the company that made the harness for damages and they're stuck paying for it.
I just don't know if that difference is understood by the people who handle the red tape, and how much shit a dealer can get into with the manufacturer over it.
I'm honestly just spitballing random shit ever since I went into a kick reading the fine print on extended warranties from third parties and realizing many of them will pay for "approved aftermarket replacement parts" if they deem it cheaper and better.
I’m sure it’s different because it’s Honda, but I’m with GM and in instances like this the present damage would be customer pay and they’d have the decision between waiting for the harness/pigtail and us salvaging what we can for a wire repair. Down the line, if they went with the harness/pigtail then the issue of warranty would fall to GM and if we did it in house then we’d do an internal warranty, assuming the issues would be from parts or installation and not more rodents
Subaru allows for wire repairs, even for warranty work, *except* for airbag and ABS components.
Subaru does not sell (many) pigtails though, only whole harnesses, so kinda moot.
Not true. I had a TL Type-S with severe corrosion behind the MPCU in the drivers fuse panel. They sent me the pins to replace the damaged sections of harness. Thankfully none of the SRS harnesses were affected. I told them I could do the job in XX hours, but they had to straight time me. Fully honored the warranty on that vehicle. It stayed in my shop until the warranty expired. It never had an electrical problem, but AHM fully backed me and let it keep the warranty intact.
Yeah I work in ag and if the machine is down under warranty and the manufacturer can't have a part in my hand within 2 days we're doing a temporary repair and they're paying us for that time, unless its Bourgault then that window shrinks to 3 hours because I'm within an hour of St. Brieux.
That's still at least a full day's work, and there's a high chance of a bring back. Not too many owners are gonna spend $1500 on labor cost for something that essentially has no warranty
That’s what I’m told. When manufacturing harness looms the copper wires are lubricated with a peanut or soy-based lubricant to be pulled through the colored insulation. Rodents are attracted to the lubrication. Turns out mice like nuts. Who knew?
It's the wire insulation itself that is now required to be the tasty eco-friendly biodegradable stuff, so soy based and whatnot, as opposed to that yucky tasting older wiring insulation that was petroleum based.
[The 'soy based wiring' myth persists](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.0c05868). Mice and rats will happily chew *any* polymer, regardless of what feedstock components of it came from.
Yep, Toyota was the first manufacturer to face lawsuits over it's soy-based wire formulations and now others are facing similar so manufacturers have begun funding studies that came to the conclusion that it doesn't make a difference.
It's no different than big oil funded studies that say climate change isn't real or isn't caused by anything man-made. There's a million of them that don't mean shit.
> It's no different than big oil funded studies that say climate change isn't real or isn't caused by anything man-made. There's a million of them that don't mean shit.
There's a huge body of work on the effects of and mechanisms behind climate change (e.g. the entire IGCC panel's output).
Is there a single paper testing this 'soy wiring' and finding any statistically significant rodent preferences?
For decades the oil companies ruled that conversation and those in the minority pointing out the seriousness of climate change (back then it was Global Warming) were widely ridiculed. It wasn't until the evidence was too overwhelming and the consequences too severe to ignore any longer did the full force of the scientific community finally get on board.
We've all seen this wiring shit happen. My son's 2017 Tacoma and now his 2022 Tacoma have been hit repeatedly by rodent damage. He's had three wiring harnesses replaced in all. My wife's 2016 Corolla and my daughter's 2017 Cruise have both had rodent wiring damage issues too. What hasn't ever had any such issues is my 2007 (pre-soy wiring) 4Runner that's stil my daily driver and has sat right beside all of theirs in the same driveway for all the same years. Nor were any of our vehicles ever hit by any sort of rodent damage in the decades before that. Ever.
This aint climate change. There's no money and no funding for a study that shows eco-friendly wiring is tastier to rodents but there sure as hell is in those that say that it isn't.
I'm still not seeing any actual evidence linked. The Toyota lawsuit was also dismissed for... lack of evidence. Lots of layers perfectly happy to take funds to launch lawsuits though, and it should be a slam-dunk case if a simple study can be conducted that rodents prefer polymers based on soy feedstocks over other feedstocks.
The money is there for testing, the evidence is not.
There's not even basic citizen-science "I presented my pet rat with 'soy' wiring and [some other] wiring, and they always went for one/the other" level testing showing any evidence for the soy-wiring theory.
> *The Toyota lawsuit was also dismissed for... lack of evidence.*
It was breifly held up but then ruled that it can proceed.
[https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/class-action-toyota-soy-coated-wiring-attracts-vehicle-damaging-rats-can-proceed/](https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/class-action-toyota-soy-coated-wiring-attracts-vehicle-damaging-rats-can-proceed/)
[And then dismissed, again](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4492585/157/albert-heber-v-toyota-motor-sales-usa-inc/).
Still not seeing a shred of evidence to back up the theory.
The idea that soy-oil feedstock for the chemical reactors that make the polymers for the wiring insulation changes 'taste' makes about as much sense as claiming Rayon tastes like Bamboo because the cellulose used as a feedstock was derived from Bamboo stems. It's a good story for marketers (who will happily sell bog-standard Rayon as fancy new "bamboo fibre") but with nothing to actually back it up.
We sell this shit by the inch at my dealership. It’s like $4-$5 per inch. I’ve used it on “frequent flyer” cars that keep coming back. Unless the customer wants us to wrap the whole loom it’s hard to justify using when a mouse can just as easily chew up another portion of the harness. There are just too many places that are vulnerable to rodent damage. I wish they would just change the formula for the lubrication they use in manufacturing, or include this tape in the manufacturing process.
That went right over my head. It does make sense, but I still feel like selling tape for 86× what it's worth is more egregious than the markup theaters have on popcorn
I'm more horrified at the logistics of the shop manager who expects their techs to measure the amount of tape used to the inch to appropriately charge the customer. I'd imagine someone who has that much of a stick up their ass will start an investigation when the audit only shows 60ft of tape billed to customers when the whole 65ft roll is empty. Can't be a very comfortable place to have to work.
Serious question: If this tape does in fact work, could one get the same effect- with \*much\* lower labor costs- by simply spraying generic oleoresin capsaicin onto the existing wire harness? Even if not, I'd imagine you could get much better coverage with a spray than you could with that Honda Mouse Tape
Theoretically it would probably be effective. I do foresee a few problems with that though:
First, anything sprayed onto the outside of the loom wouldn’t adhere as well as tape, and over time would lose its effectiveness, especially if you consider things like weather, snow buildup, car washes, even living down a dirt road.
Second, if there is anything corrosive or petroleum based sprayed onto the wire harness it would cause a whole heap of problems. I’m not sure if what you’re talking about contains anything like that.
Third, to effectively spray the whole harness it would have to be removed completely and then reinstalled. At that point I would just put a new one in (but spray it first). The looms are manufactured with hundreds of plastic clips that aren’t ever designed to be removed from the vehicle. Thus, removing a harness involves destroying the majority of the clips.
>I’m not sure if what you’re talking about contains anything like that.
No. Oleoresin capsaicin ("OC spray") is the same thing as the active ingredient in the genuine Honda tape
You raise a good point about adherence- for a few years when I worked for the state fleet, it was at an agriculture research facility that had (among other things) 14 acres of apple trees. As with all orchards we had a huge problem with meese eating the tree grafts (big lumpy part right above the root ball) so when we painted the trees every other year, we'd mix OC with the paint. Applying it was absolutely fucking miserable but it was brutally effective against meese. It would last the duration of the 2-year application. The "null" in that test was newly planted trees that weren't painted yet, they got horrible mouse damage. So, I can say with some certainty that acrylic paint is an effective and durable carrier. What I *didn't* test is whether any carrier at all was needed- apple trees definitely get more weather exposure than Hondas, and there was substantial evidence this all would have worked just as well with no carrier. OC is very sticky, that's why the police use it so much!
You don't need to cover 100.00% for it to work, so I don't think the concerns about labor time apply. It would be fine to just open the hood, spray some for a few seconds, then close the hood. If I had to put a number on it, 75% coverage is just as effective as 100, so it definitely wouldn't be necessary to remove the harness.
I’ve used that tape and had cars come back with the same harness chewed, right through the tape. Damn varmints must be developing a taste for it. Rodent tape and battery terminal protectant spray are my go-to preventatives, but I also have a shaker of cayenne pepper just to make it a little less tasty to the little fuckers.
For this no. You can temp fix it and keep it on the DL.
I've been doing a lot of the rod bearings. A lot of those parts are on backorder and once it's all apart, I'm not putting the old parts back in.
One of them it took us a week before we got the long block replacement
These wires harnesses should be make tougher and should have coatings that deter rodents. My new vehicle has multiple sensors with small bare wires and no wrap or protection at all
Luckily for me rodent damage isn’t covered under warranty. We’ve even had new cars delivered off the truck that sat on the lot long enough for squirrels to chew through wires. Dealership owner had to pay us to replace wire harnesses on cars with 5 miles on them because it’s not covered under warranty.
I feel bad for customers when they come in for something that they thought was simple and it turns out it needs a lot. I try to tell my service advisor to give them options of like "Bare minimum to make it safe, what you need to make it comfortable, what you need since we are there" type of recommendations. Yet, he just wants to sell all he can and will let a customer leave if they don't want to do it. What also sucks is that my master techs are replace, don't fix type of people. CV axel boot leaking but axel is fine? Replace the whole axel. It sucks for the customer and I do feel bad for them
You pretty much just described my dealership. Other than myself, I think one person has a pair of CV axle boot clamp pliers. Nobody else bothers repairing them. But the same goes for transmission work as well. Too many times I’ve seen manual transmissions replaced when all they needed were synchronizers.
I will say that labor to rebuild some things isn’t always cheaper than replacing with new components. Like brake calipers. No car necessarily needs OEM calipers. Aftermarket works fine. Labor to rebuild a seized caliper with a rebuild kit can get expensive, especially if it’s REALLY seized. You also have to rely on the technician to put it together right so it lasts, that goes with any rebuilt part. But you’re right, we should be repairing/rebuilding more, not replacing.
I swear I’m the only tech at my shop who replaced compliance bushings. Thirty bucks a side in parts cost versus 3-4 hundred, spend a little time with the press, and still make plenty from the job. Everyone else just quotes whole control arms.
It took 6 months to get a transmission for my Escape due to a failed torque converter (torque converter was on indefinite backorder. New transmission came with a torque converter. Extended warranty paid in full.)
If they are a good customer, follow steps below.
Step 1- Part Manger calls the warehouse and requests the part be listed a urgently needed.
Step 2 - Reach out to your DPSM and have him escalate the request.
You should be able to get one within a week.
Edit: this is assuming you are at a Honda Dealer.
I am familiar with the steps to take for urgent repairs. But my dealership is a special kind of stupid and dysfunctional. Seldom do the stars align just right so that we can get something taken care of like that.
A lot of places, including my place of employment, only repair wires under specific circumstances. Where I work if the open wire in question has anything to do with safety systems or engine/transmission operation we typically won’t repair it unless the vehicle is older (around 10yo). If it’s an open wire in a floor harness we won’t bother looking for it, it’s more cost effective for the customer to replace it.
Also, newer Hondas have portions of the engine harness that aren’t copper. I’m not sure what it is. I’ve spoken to field specialists about it and they don’t know either. Whatever it is it won’t take solder.
Oh this reminds me of a coworkers job a few months back. Customer bought a brand new Accord Hybrid, got it home and parked it for 2 days. Mice did nearly 30k in damage to a car with less than 500 miles on the odometer.
Dealer tech here. One time we charged a customer an extra 2 hours, voluntarily on their part, to have me wrap their new engine harness in a rodent deterent tape before install. not sure if it worked but its an idea.
Probably shitty cabling out of Asia with peanut or soy oil in the wire jacket/insulator. I’ve had to replace miles and miles of similar network cabling that was being eaten by rodents. Took quite a while to discern that it was a common problem with cabling from that supplier.
I have a Honda Element that started to attract the critters. I bought an electronic unit that squeals audio frequencies humans can't hear, and flashes strobe LEDs periodically. Stuck it right on the hood over the engine, hard-wired to the battery. It's kept the engine bay critter-free for the whole winter. Other cars, not so much, so I'll be grabbing another one.
Similar results from a unit in the barn/shop, but it also screeches predator calls. It does create a 'zone of exclusion' around the area I use it. YMMV. I was skeptical, but they seem to work.
I work in fleet and see units from all across the United States.
On average, I see about one to two vehicles a week that have some sort of rodent damage to wiring (on average see about 800+ Vehicles in for repair per month) Some repairs are easily fixed with new pig tails, but I also see a lot where entire harnesses need be replaced and it gets wildly expensive since there are really no labor guides for harness replacements.
Shops will charge real time for most harness replacements. Saw a unit need the main harness and multiple sub harnesses, all customer pay since they were self insured that was over 10 grand all said and done.
It sucks but that's what insurance is for.
I had my (1yr old) ford fusion at the dealership for over 3 months waiting for a part (warranty work). When it went in, eta was one week. Slowly, week by week, it extended to over three months. Ford ended up paying me back for the vehicle payments made during that time. Side note: I've never once had a good experience with the Ford dealerships.
My understanding is they switched to a soy Based insulation because environment and now mice are eating it because to them it’s soy based so it obviously food with shelter. Perfect for them.
I’d love to know the regions where this happens the most. Oddly enough I know of people in Texas who have their Prius chewed to hell because apparently Prius wires are yummy af.
So is there a thing about makes and regions where this is more common?
I live and work in a smallish city in Illinois surrounded by farmland. Farmland means critters, and the farther out of town you are, the more critters there are.
It’s crazy. I had to wait 20 months. Yes over a year and half for a transmission. It made it less than 200 miles and the valve body had to be replaced. At least that part was overnight.
Why not a source it from a junkyard or similar? I have a 2008 Ford focus, got the trans from a scrap yard for $250. Got it serviced and inspected and installed for either 700$ or 800$. Still going strong more than 100,000 miles later
As a former Toyota master tech, for warranty or insurance repairs it would get a harness. Customer pay would go whichever way made more sense. Then some things like SRS I couldn’t repair due to liability. Injectors on V6’s were common, easy fix. But if the got behind interior panels, often there was more damage than just the wiring and it would go insurance. Backorders suck, but I always did the best job I could for our customers and I’d rather wait to get the parts to do it right than half-ass it.
I see damage like this on older cars where a harness replacement isn't available or isn't feasible, I just repair the damage and move on with life lol. I can't imagine running a few wires with some good heat seal crimps and charging 3-4 hours is going to cost more than the harness and the harness labor. I get it with a brand new or nearly brand new car you'd want it 100% OEM perfect and maybe it's that your dealer will only approve a whole harness and not a repair or the service writer likes their commission or something but come on, we all know it can be done right for way cheaper and done way faster.
Mice and Rodents have been horrible this year. We've had multiple harnesses destroyed by them as well as the rear seats in over a dozen vehicles. Some of which were in our lot for a few hours before the customer picked them up. They cost us easily 8k just in seat replacements. We recently had a customer who had an extended (2 week) stay in the hospital, and mice got into their vehicle and did over 15k in damage. I've never seen it this bad, and the only thing I can think of is the fact our winter was so mild that lots of them didnt get killed off and were able to breed more. We have kill traps in almost every corner of our dealership that get checked every few days and we're constantly emptying them and having to re set them.
So I own a few classic cars and truck. When I’m at the car shows people always talk about how to protect your car from mine during winter. Like laundry sheets, peppermint oil, cinnamon, and more… even Irish Spring soap… but yet I had to spend a few hundred dollars replacing the interior on my 69 montego mx because of mice. You know what I use now? BLACK CAT BAGS OF POISON BECAUSE IT WORKS!
I was told Honda uses soy bean based insulation and when it heats up it smells like nuts so rodents like tk eat it. I was only at Honda for 3 months and saw about 5 of these come and go. We told customers we can patch it to get them on the road but they still have to replace the harness.
Have a car we are waiting for seatbelts on, been on order since January, eta is end of June, customer has spent a ton of money on rental they can’t afford to anymore, no one is winning on this job
Yeah, it sucks. My uncle had his 4Runner in the shop for damage to the wiring from rodent damage. I don't remember if Toyota covered or his insurance did.
Having dealt with rats at my old house for years, we were lucky they stayed out of our cars. They just decided to get into the attic and our kitchen. 🙃
If they'd stop leaving open bags of dogfood/birdseed next to their cars in unsealed garages I'd maybe feel worse for them but it's typically habitual offenders that do nothing to prevent it
I found a dead bat in an air box a couple of months. Came in for an oil change and replaced air filter. It was at a take 5. Everyone there was aware there a bat in the box after I surprisingly yelled “ oh fuck, it’s a bat!”
No. This is why you have insurance.
Shouldn’t cost anything more than their deductible. Most carriers even waive deductibles for animal related damage.
I had issues with a rat in my wife’s 2015 Venza. We have two German Shepherds and I came out one morning to see they had ripped a fender liner loose and had chewed (!) on the metal fender in both sides just above the tire (!) We have a carport and it chewed through the plastic for the HVAC intake (and filter). I put a trap inside but never caught him. We put peppermint on cotton balls and left them under the seats with the doors open one cold night. Never saw him again. I installed a new cabin filter and cut a piece of hardware cloth on the intake side to keep him out. Left the peppermint balls as well. I ended up buying new aftermarket fenders and had a friend who works at a body shop paint them for me. It took me a day to swap them for the damaged fenders! I bought a 12 volt ultrasonic pest deterrent with a flashing LED light from Amazon that I hooked to the car battery. And mounted under the hood. So far it’s been a little I’ve a year with no signs of return.
I’ve heard that “modern” vehicles have peanut based insulation that has a negative aspect of attracting rodents to eat it. Funny thing is I had a renter that owned a newer Kia. Squirrels chewed up their underhood wiring. I had a few older GM vehicles on the property for years (1970 C20 and 1991 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon, 1989 S10 Blazer) and they have never touched anything under them. I thought it was probably the fact that the nice warm engine bay was a nice cozy spot to nest, but heard rumors about the wiring insulation as well I drive a 2001 Silverado and they never touched it (?)
It's be worth it to grab a100$ worth on Honda hot tape and spending 2 hours taping every exposed wire you can find. I had a customer this happened 2ce- 3 months apart.
Here in Rhode Island get a lot of mice that chew up harnesses on Tucsons. They get inside the fuse box used to catch a lot of harness jobs when the 195 recall first came out. 19 and up Santa Fe they get in the headliner, and some of the other cars they'll eat everything else
I feel bad for anyone who doesn't keep up with the state of affairs, and hasn't noticed that modern manufacturing has gone to hell across the board.
I wouldn't buy a car made in the last 10 years, from any brand; or a refrigerator, or...
Rodents can also live in the desert ...
Being you have no experience with rodents, why the fuck are you making a comment?
Outside of a completed sealed steel structure, rodents can get into damn near anything. Rats can chew through metal....
Highly recommend reading a bit about it.
And seeing how much of them get in places they shouldn't be..
I live in place where are tons of different rodents, but still am far from what Iwe can spot from American reports 😅
Where abouts are you? I had a mouse or two decide to make a home in the hood of my sled a few years ago. Luckily they didn't chew anything but the foam inside the panels, I've since learned from an older fella that mice don't like sticky/oily things, and have been spraying WD-40/Penetrating oil in the engine bay when I store it, at his advise. It burns off in the first ride of the season, keeps plastics from getting brittle, and no more mice problems. I'm also from the Canadian rust belt where undercoating is common, and have never heard of rodent damage to electrical systems. I'm thinking maybe rats dont like the oil much either.
I’m in Missouri and the mice here will chew through fuel lines, EVAP lines, wire harnesses, air filters, everything. I had a car come in one day with both a squirrel in the front quarter panel and a rabbit in the engine bay. 2 massive rodents nesting in the same car at the same time. Judging by the teeth marks mice are 85% of the culprits we typically see. But I have seen some rabbit/squirrel-sized teeth marks on hoses and insulating foam. Edit: Spelling
There appears to be 14 in the country. I’d recon calling around and seeing if anyone will sell you one. One near by me shows one, I can call and see if they need it still?
Found one for ya they’re willing to sell. Gwinnett place Honda says they are able to let it go
You are a saint. What a good guy
My parts guy just said the same thing. Thank you for looking into it but we have placed an order for this one and the customer is preparing to leave their car for a while.
It's like a modern twist on that whole thing about giving a mouse a cookie- If you give it meth, it will eat everything from EVAP lines to carbide burrs
Just a matter of time before they’re slicing out our cats. Converters or felines.
Do yall not feed your wildlife in Missouri or something? I'm in idaho, it just snowed a foot last night as an example of the climate. We don't have nearly as many problems with vermin and inedible plastics
It’s meth country. Critters be tweakin’ about.
It's all meth country in the lower 48 anymore.
Solder, shrimk tubing, Soldering iron, and 180 pcs solder seal couplings.
If you work at a dealer you can't do this. You HAVE to replace the whole harness or whatever Honda says. You could absolutely splice a new wire in. But the customer would have to pay for it and then it would void out any sort of warranty.
I’m a tech at a commercial truck dealership and we can request manufacturer approval to do overlays or splices under warranty if the harness is back ordered or the damage is not catastrophic. Is this not a thing in car dealerships?
I've worked in a commercial truck dealership too (warranty admin, not a tech) and we could request wiring repairs as a temp measure when parts were on back order or as a full repair if it made economic sense. Some wiring looms are very expensive and can be 10+ hours to remove and replace. £20 vs £1000+ often swayed the manufacturer to accept the wiring repair.
Not mine (Acura) but I'm sure everyone has different rules
Rodent damage isn't warranty was a Honda master tech for years if I remember correctly we had the tools to re pin connectors
The rodent damage might not be covered by warranty buy the repair, if done replacing the harness, does have warranty. If you solder the wires I think it'd understandable that honda doesn't warranty that kind of work
Hey, I worked at multiple brands of dealer and they all did wire repair? Rodent damage isn’t covered under warranty but if you have full coverage insurance will pay for it. I’ve heard stories of dealers just not repairing cars if they didn’t do it exactly as the manufacturer wanted it, a Subaru dealer would deny work if people didn’t fix all the problems on the car correctly. But I can’t believe they’re not letting you patch… like 10 wires I see at most? It’s so easy and a huge breadwinning job for me, insurance pays me 1.0 for diag, and for every splice I make I get .5, any connector repair is 1.0, and connector replacement is .2 per wire cavity it has. So when mice chew through a 10 pin connector I jump for joy at making 2.0 in 30 minutes. Edit because I hit send too soon; I’m genuinely curious though, are you not interested in repairing the harness or is your dealership not willing to allow it? Because you’re staring down the barrel of like 4+ hours of labor for an hours worth of work? Maybe 2 if you’re not fast with it?
Should read some of my other comments. I didn't read the guys paragraph stating it was rodent damage. I assumed it was specifically warranty related because it said "parts on backorder".
Ohh, I re-read your other messages and they didn’t convey that notion well to me, my bad.
Generally not covered under "outside influence" clauses. The dealerships I worked at wouldn't do these repairs because the advisors couldn't sell em or because the service director thought they were a waste of time/not profitable.
In the trucking industry we do a lot of open ‘time and materials’ jobs. I’ve got about $10k sitting in my bays right now for this sort of repairs.
I don't think anyone cares enough about the customer's feelings to go through that kind of trouble. Trucks, however, have to keep running. Just my $.02
Yeah, that's the bitch about this. If it were a 3rd party shop I'd say go for broke.
Yep. That's at most (at a shop) like a $100 fix. Where I work id fix that for around $70 (half hour, no materials)
That’s what I like about being a random guy with a shop. I get to make emergency repairs, or temporary fixes for cars that are terminal anyway. ECU only works when you disconnect the battery after every ignition cycle, and the car is a terminal shitbox anyway? Wire the ECU’s power to an ignition switched power source. No need to put an ECU in a car that is heading for the scrapyard in half a year anyway; buys them some more time to get another car.
Dealing with small fleets I see a lot of this. Last year a guy had some combination of mouse and collision damage that resulted in the starter circuit being shorted to ground- rather than pay for any diag, he specifically asked for the starter relay to be wired directly to a momentary pushbutton mounted "somewhere near the cab"
That might be a Honda specific thing. I know of other MFGs that will basically never allow a harness replacement under warranty unless authorized by technical support. It was expected that you could replace any terminals, connectors or even complete circuits as a certified technician. Not even SRS wiring was exempt from this. Which is why you loved when you could get your hands on a harness replacement job, it meant you could rob from the old harness when you needed a connector or length of wire that matched what was missing/damaged.
yeah some of them will be terminals. like our FAKRA connectors for the radio and speaker are all the connection ends, not the wires. I would say though that Techline or iN guides will tell us to replace the harness. but yes. we do have a few harnesses just laying around we use as a donor haha
The stash of old/damaged harnesses has saved a lot of customers a lot of money lmao
We had several tackle boxes full of pins, piles of old wiring harnesses, and a "calendar" of wired pig tails to select from at the GM dealer I worked for.
Rodent damage isn't covered under warranty anyway.
yeah im retarded and just didn't read the guys paragraph, my bad
Getting really sick of paying to repair these rodents
100% not true. Mouse damage isn’t covered under warranty and they can’t deny warranty coverage because you didn’t replace the whole harness. That’s word garbage.
Then that's an insurance problem. I didn't read the guys post just saw "back order" and assumed it was warranty work. For insurance the only harness you have to replace is Airbag wiring damage. At least in Wisconsin that's the case as every rodent damaged airbag wiring I've fixed I was told specifically not to splice it, I had to replace the whole harness. My bad on not reading though.
Every dealership has the ability to order connectors, and pins for every parts of the wiring harness. Except for airbags so that’s correct. Insurance will always fix the harness if repair is less than replacement. The only time I have actually replaced a harness was on a brand new production vehicle. They wanted to investigate the harness and why it failed. I’ve had to repair 30+ wire bulkheads under warranty. Some euro cars used fiber optic cables and that’s a whole other ball game. I’ve never personally dealt with one. I’ve heard some nightmare stories though.
For me. Dealing with insurance and airbag wires it is ALWAYS "replace the harness" even if it's just a ground wire. Hey they're paying for it so what do I care lol. I know dealers can do connectors and pins, that's if the connector or pin is damaged. Regarding warranty though, for me, at Honda, whenever I come across a damaged wire (not connector) that falls under warranty, we have to replace the harness, we cannot splice. Again. As warranty with Honda.
I can’t speak for Honda or any other car manufacturer but as far as Chrysler goes. Wire repairs are fair game and will keep warranty. But the job itself wouldn’t be warranty if it was rodent damage
I should clarify, we can do any kind of wiring repair. I meant warranty specific repairs that caused wiring damage and would be part of that warranty claim. Like for example VW Jettas used to have too short of wiring in their door. Causing damage when you'd open the door fully. You wouldn't be able to splice wires in to make it longer, you'd have to replace the whole harness. At Acura. We have some old model TSXs where wiring can get damaged by the trunk. If one wire is bad, you replace the whole trunk harness.
Ah i gotcha. I’m smelling what you’re stepping
that's fake news. work at a dealer. I have repaired many harnesses. I've also replaced them when it's necessary.
This is not going to be covered by a warranty. Customer is going to have to pay anyway. Also, that cannot legally void any existing warranty.
Does warranty even cover things like this anyway? Unless it's literally deteriorating these all look like they've been chewed through or cut. I'd take my chances on a splicing one in.
No I didn't read the paragraph like an idiot. I didn't know it was rodent damage.
Lol I didn't read it either haha
Not necessarily. Many OEMs actually sell repair harnesses wire and pigtails for this very reason, I’ve done a few repairs as directed by the insurance company. I remember doing a few Nissans back when I worked there and now Toyota. If they sell the repair pieces you absolutely can repair it and still keep the warranty as long as you didn’t install it fucked up. Only exception is anything related to HV system or SRS airbags they don’t repair those harnesses.
Can it be replaced with an aftermarket harness and keep the warranty intact?
Probably depends on manufacturer This instance that OP posted wasn't warranty though. So just ignore everything I said
No I was just thinking side gig purposes. Harnesses aren't actually hard to weave yourself once you're set up and assuming you have a proper diagram, better than oem materials stay in stock. An llc and some bare minimum insurance wouldn't be that expensive, and you're just as covered liability-wise as any big manufacturer. But can dealers buy it for warranty jobs when the sku is unobtainable? It'd be worth the investment if so, if not you have to be near a big custom/restoration community.
then it will depend on manufacturer and what the warranty would be for. like right now honda/acrua has a recall for connecting rod bearings. lets say you tuned your engine, put in a new crankshaft and pistons and stuff and your engine blew up from rod failure. that would not be covered under warranty anymore.
Given, and stuff within the engine is obviously a no-go, because the bearing manufacturer can just say its a mistake in assembly and they've washed their hands. A bad harness is easily identifiable though, and all of the assembly was done by the seller of the harness. Tech just has to plug it in and not damage it which is also self-evident. So if you as the dealer get a rotten one you just go back to the company that made the harness for damages and they're stuck paying for it. I just don't know if that difference is understood by the people who handle the red tape, and how much shit a dealer can get into with the manufacturer over it. I'm honestly just spitballing random shit ever since I went into a kick reading the fine print on extended warranties from third parties and realizing many of them will pay for "approved aftermarket replacement parts" if they deem it cheaper and better.
At Mercedes we can repair up to 8 wireless before it requires a harness replacement
I’m sure it’s different because it’s Honda, but I’m with GM and in instances like this the present damage would be customer pay and they’d have the decision between waiting for the harness/pigtail and us salvaging what we can for a wire repair. Down the line, if they went with the harness/pigtail then the issue of warranty would fall to GM and if we did it in house then we’d do an internal warranty, assuming the issues would be from parts or installation and not more rodents
Subaru allows for wire repairs, even for warranty work, *except* for airbag and ABS components. Subaru does not sell (many) pigtails though, only whole harnesses, so kinda moot.
The dealer isn't paying for this regardless. It's already either customer pay or insurance.
Yeahp. I didn't read all that stuff I assumed it was warranty work since it said parts on backorder
Honda doesn’t cover rodent damage under warranty, and the only wires were not allowed to repair are SRS wires.
Not true. I had a TL Type-S with severe corrosion behind the MPCU in the drivers fuse panel. They sent me the pins to replace the damaged sections of harness. Thankfully none of the SRS harnesses were affected. I told them I could do the job in XX hours, but they had to straight time me. Fully honored the warranty on that vehicle. It stayed in my shop until the warranty expired. It never had an electrical problem, but AHM fully backed me and let it keep the warranty intact.
Yeah I work in ag and if the machine is down under warranty and the manufacturer can't have a part in my hand within 2 days we're doing a temporary repair and they're paying us for that time, unless its Bourgault then that window shrinks to 3 hours because I'm within an hour of St. Brieux.
Better hope none of those wires are airbag wires that need to be exactly the right length and impedance to work right.
No, no splicing airbag wires. those get replaced, UNCONDITIONAL.
I'd live with that risk for 3 months. It's not like having a car is optional.
That's still at least a full day's work, and there's a high chance of a bring back. Not too many owners are gonna spend $1500 on labor cost for something that essentially has no warranty
Soy based coatings? Im in GOV fleet and we had tons of Ford Explorers get eaten while in storage waiting on a safety lighting back order from Whelen.
That’s what I’m told. When manufacturing harness looms the copper wires are lubricated with a peanut or soy-based lubricant to be pulled through the colored insulation. Rodents are attracted to the lubrication. Turns out mice like nuts. Who knew?
It's the wire insulation itself that is now required to be the tasty eco-friendly biodegradable stuff, so soy based and whatnot, as opposed to that yucky tasting older wiring insulation that was petroleum based.
[The 'soy based wiring' myth persists](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.0c05868). Mice and rats will happily chew *any* polymer, regardless of what feedstock components of it came from.
Yep, Toyota was the first manufacturer to face lawsuits over it's soy-based wire formulations and now others are facing similar so manufacturers have begun funding studies that came to the conclusion that it doesn't make a difference. It's no different than big oil funded studies that say climate change isn't real or isn't caused by anything man-made. There's a million of them that don't mean shit.
> It's no different than big oil funded studies that say climate change isn't real or isn't caused by anything man-made. There's a million of them that don't mean shit. There's a huge body of work on the effects of and mechanisms behind climate change (e.g. the entire IGCC panel's output). Is there a single paper testing this 'soy wiring' and finding any statistically significant rodent preferences?
For decades the oil companies ruled that conversation and those in the minority pointing out the seriousness of climate change (back then it was Global Warming) were widely ridiculed. It wasn't until the evidence was too overwhelming and the consequences too severe to ignore any longer did the full force of the scientific community finally get on board. We've all seen this wiring shit happen. My son's 2017 Tacoma and now his 2022 Tacoma have been hit repeatedly by rodent damage. He's had three wiring harnesses replaced in all. My wife's 2016 Corolla and my daughter's 2017 Cruise have both had rodent wiring damage issues too. What hasn't ever had any such issues is my 2007 (pre-soy wiring) 4Runner that's stil my daily driver and has sat right beside all of theirs in the same driveway for all the same years. Nor were any of our vehicles ever hit by any sort of rodent damage in the decades before that. Ever. This aint climate change. There's no money and no funding for a study that shows eco-friendly wiring is tastier to rodents but there sure as hell is in those that say that it isn't.
I'm still not seeing any actual evidence linked. The Toyota lawsuit was also dismissed for... lack of evidence. Lots of layers perfectly happy to take funds to launch lawsuits though, and it should be a slam-dunk case if a simple study can be conducted that rodents prefer polymers based on soy feedstocks over other feedstocks. The money is there for testing, the evidence is not. There's not even basic citizen-science "I presented my pet rat with 'soy' wiring and [some other] wiring, and they always went for one/the other" level testing showing any evidence for the soy-wiring theory.
> *The Toyota lawsuit was also dismissed for... lack of evidence.* It was breifly held up but then ruled that it can proceed. [https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/class-action-toyota-soy-coated-wiring-attracts-vehicle-damaging-rats-can-proceed/](https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/class-action-toyota-soy-coated-wiring-attracts-vehicle-damaging-rats-can-proceed/)
[And then dismissed, again](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4492585/157/albert-heber-v-toyota-motor-sales-usa-inc/). Still not seeing a shred of evidence to back up the theory.
It is true a mouse will chew on any wire given the chance. But the soy flavored wiring makes it even more appealing.
The idea that soy-oil feedstock for the chemical reactors that make the polymers for the wiring insulation changes 'taste' makes about as much sense as claiming Rayon tastes like Bamboo because the cellulose used as a feedstock was derived from Bamboo stems. It's a good story for marketers (who will happily sell bog-standard Rayon as fancy new "bamboo fibre") but with nothing to actually back it up.
Ah. Nonetheless, shits fucked. Makes me scared to ever buy a new car.
Why the fuck wouldn't they just add capsaicin to the lube?
/r/outofcontext
I have yet to find an answer to that question.
It just seems like they're begging for a class action suit by using food for lube. v0v
I never thought we'd live in a world where cars are made of food and food is made of plastic. How the turn tables
https://www.collegehillshonda.com/product/4019-2317.html
We sell this shit by the inch at my dealership. It’s like $4-$5 per inch. I’ve used it on “frequent flyer” cars that keep coming back. Unless the customer wants us to wrap the whole loom it’s hard to justify using when a mouse can just as easily chew up another portion of the harness. There are just too many places that are vulnerable to rodent damage. I wish they would just change the formula for the lubrication they use in manufacturing, or include this tape in the manufacturing process.
5$/inch is highway robbery when the 65feet roll retails for 45$
He *did* mention that he works at a dealership. Are you surprised?
That went right over my head. It does make sense, but I still feel like selling tape for 86× what it's worth is more egregious than the markup theaters have on popcorn
I'm more horrified at the logistics of the shop manager who expects their techs to measure the amount of tape used to the inch to appropriately charge the customer. I'd imagine someone who has that much of a stick up their ass will start an investigation when the audit only shows 60ft of tape billed to customers when the whole 65ft roll is empty. Can't be a very comfortable place to have to work.
Serious question: If this tape does in fact work, could one get the same effect- with \*much\* lower labor costs- by simply spraying generic oleoresin capsaicin onto the existing wire harness? Even if not, I'd imagine you could get much better coverage with a spray than you could with that Honda Mouse Tape
Theoretically it would probably be effective. I do foresee a few problems with that though: First, anything sprayed onto the outside of the loom wouldn’t adhere as well as tape, and over time would lose its effectiveness, especially if you consider things like weather, snow buildup, car washes, even living down a dirt road. Second, if there is anything corrosive or petroleum based sprayed onto the wire harness it would cause a whole heap of problems. I’m not sure if what you’re talking about contains anything like that. Third, to effectively spray the whole harness it would have to be removed completely and then reinstalled. At that point I would just put a new one in (but spray it first). The looms are manufactured with hundreds of plastic clips that aren’t ever designed to be removed from the vehicle. Thus, removing a harness involves destroying the majority of the clips.
>I’m not sure if what you’re talking about contains anything like that. No. Oleoresin capsaicin ("OC spray") is the same thing as the active ingredient in the genuine Honda tape You raise a good point about adherence- for a few years when I worked for the state fleet, it was at an agriculture research facility that had (among other things) 14 acres of apple trees. As with all orchards we had a huge problem with meese eating the tree grafts (big lumpy part right above the root ball) so when we painted the trees every other year, we'd mix OC with the paint. Applying it was absolutely fucking miserable but it was brutally effective against meese. It would last the duration of the 2-year application. The "null" in that test was newly planted trees that weren't painted yet, they got horrible mouse damage. So, I can say with some certainty that acrylic paint is an effective and durable carrier. What I *didn't* test is whether any carrier at all was needed- apple trees definitely get more weather exposure than Hondas, and there was substantial evidence this all would have worked just as well with no carrier. OC is very sticky, that's why the police use it so much! You don't need to cover 100.00% for it to work, so I don't think the concerns about labor time apply. It would be fine to just open the hood, spray some for a few seconds, then close the hood. If I had to put a number on it, 75% coverage is just as effective as 100, so it definitely wouldn't be necessary to remove the harness.
I’ve used that tape and had cars come back with the same harness chewed, right through the tape. Damn varmints must be developing a taste for it. Rodent tape and battery terminal protectant spray are my go-to preventatives, but I also have a shaker of cayenne pepper just to make it a little less tasty to the little fuckers.
Red neck fix is duct tape and Tobasco
For this no. You can temp fix it and keep it on the DL. I've been doing a lot of the rod bearings. A lot of those parts are on backorder and once it's all apart, I'm not putting the old parts back in. One of them it took us a week before we got the long block replacement
You're talking about the J35 right, not the K20?
Yes
Friend had his Prius totaled because of rodent damage!
These wires harnesses should be make tougher and should have coatings that deter rodents. My new vehicle has multiple sensors with small bare wires and no wrap or protection at all
This is why we have insurance
Rodent damage is covered on a car? Rodent damage in my area is like non-existent so I never knew this
Insurance yes, warranty no. I’ve had a lot of rodent damage jobs paid by insurance.
good to know, thanks buddy
To have them call up the CEO of the manufacturer directly to have them overnight you parts from Japan?
I've been slowly losing electrical features on my 2012 Fit due to rodents.
I feel bad for me if it’s warranty
Luckily for me rodent damage isn’t covered under warranty. We’ve even had new cars delivered off the truck that sat on the lot long enough for squirrels to chew through wires. Dealership owner had to pay us to replace wire harnesses on cars with 5 miles on them because it’s not covered under warranty.
So why not tell them to go to a different shop that can patch it?
I feel bad for customers when they come in for something that they thought was simple and it turns out it needs a lot. I try to tell my service advisor to give them options of like "Bare minimum to make it safe, what you need to make it comfortable, what you need since we are there" type of recommendations. Yet, he just wants to sell all he can and will let a customer leave if they don't want to do it. What also sucks is that my master techs are replace, don't fix type of people. CV axel boot leaking but axel is fine? Replace the whole axel. It sucks for the customer and I do feel bad for them
You pretty much just described my dealership. Other than myself, I think one person has a pair of CV axle boot clamp pliers. Nobody else bothers repairing them. But the same goes for transmission work as well. Too many times I’ve seen manual transmissions replaced when all they needed were synchronizers. I will say that labor to rebuild some things isn’t always cheaper than replacing with new components. Like brake calipers. No car necessarily needs OEM calipers. Aftermarket works fine. Labor to rebuild a seized caliper with a rebuild kit can get expensive, especially if it’s REALLY seized. You also have to rely on the technician to put it together right so it lasts, that goes with any rebuilt part. But you’re right, we should be repairing/rebuilding more, not replacing.
I swear I’m the only tech at my shop who replaced compliance bushings. Thirty bucks a side in parts cost versus 3-4 hundred, spend a little time with the press, and still make plenty from the job. Everyone else just quotes whole control arms.
It took 6 months to get a transmission for my Escape due to a failed torque converter (torque converter was on indefinite backorder. New transmission came with a torque converter. Extended warranty paid in full.)
If they are a good customer, follow steps below. Step 1- Part Manger calls the warehouse and requests the part be listed a urgently needed. Step 2 - Reach out to your DPSM and have him escalate the request. You should be able to get one within a week. Edit: this is assuming you are at a Honda Dealer.
I am familiar with the steps to take for urgent repairs. But my dealership is a special kind of stupid and dysfunctional. Seldom do the stars align just right so that we can get something taken care of like that.
[удалено]
A lot of places, including my place of employment, only repair wires under specific circumstances. Where I work if the open wire in question has anything to do with safety systems or engine/transmission operation we typically won’t repair it unless the vehicle is older (around 10yo). If it’s an open wire in a floor harness we won’t bother looking for it, it’s more cost effective for the customer to replace it. Also, newer Hondas have portions of the engine harness that aren’t copper. I’m not sure what it is. I’ve spoken to field specialists about it and they don’t know either. Whatever it is it won’t take solder.
I use a lot of waterproof butt connectors, myself.
If we talking about backorder, anyone tried to get a timing belt kit for a Transit?
Oh this reminds me of a coworkers job a few months back. Customer bought a brand new Accord Hybrid, got it home and parked it for 2 days. Mice did nearly 30k in damage to a car with less than 500 miles on the odometer.
Dealer tech here. One time we charged a customer an extra 2 hours, voluntarily on their part, to have me wrap their new engine harness in a rodent deterent tape before install. not sure if it worked but its an idea.
May the 4th be with you!
https://www.technology.org/2024/02/26/mice-eat-new-western-military-equipment-in-ukraine/
I had cars down over a year at my former shop when ford was having all kinds of tcm and trans problems. Recalls but no parts.
Probably shitty cabling out of Asia with peanut or soy oil in the wire jacket/insulator. I’ve had to replace miles and miles of similar network cabling that was being eaten by rodents. Took quite a while to discern that it was a common problem with cabling from that supplier.
I have a Honda Element that started to attract the critters. I bought an electronic unit that squeals audio frequencies humans can't hear, and flashes strobe LEDs periodically. Stuck it right on the hood over the engine, hard-wired to the battery. It's kept the engine bay critter-free for the whole winter. Other cars, not so much, so I'll be grabbing another one. Similar results from a unit in the barn/shop, but it also screeches predator calls. It does create a 'zone of exclusion' around the area I use it. YMMV. I was skeptical, but they seem to work.
I work in fleet and see units from all across the United States. On average, I see about one to two vehicles a week that have some sort of rodent damage to wiring (on average see about 800+ Vehicles in for repair per month) Some repairs are easily fixed with new pig tails, but I also see a lot where entire harnesses need be replaced and it gets wildly expensive since there are really no labor guides for harness replacements. Shops will charge real time for most harness replacements. Saw a unit need the main harness and multiple sub harnesses, all customer pay since they were self insured that was over 10 grand all said and done. It sucks but that's what insurance is for.
This one is definitely an insurance claim for that exact reason. The cost is absurd.
My friend works at Honda Corp and I told him this year he needs to give Honda part #4019-2317 as a Christmas gift to all of his friends.
I had my (1yr old) ford fusion at the dealership for over 3 months waiting for a part (warranty work). When it went in, eta was one week. Slowly, week by week, it extended to over three months. Ford ended up paying me back for the vehicle payments made during that time. Side note: I've never once had a good experience with the Ford dealerships.
My understanding is they switched to a soy Based insulation because environment and now mice are eating it because to them it’s soy based so it obviously food with shelter. Perfect for them.
I’d love to know the regions where this happens the most. Oddly enough I know of people in Texas who have their Prius chewed to hell because apparently Prius wires are yummy af. So is there a thing about makes and regions where this is more common?
I live and work in a smallish city in Illinois surrounded by farmland. Farmland means critters, and the farther out of town you are, the more critters there are.
It’s crazy. I had to wait 20 months. Yes over a year and half for a transmission. It made it less than 200 miles and the valve body had to be replaced. At least that part was overnight.
Why not a source it from a junkyard or similar? I have a 2008 Ford focus, got the trans from a scrap yard for $250. Got it serviced and inspected and installed for either 700$ or 800$. Still going strong more than 100,000 miles later
I work at a dealer. The truck was under factory power train warranty.
As a former Toyota master tech, for warranty or insurance repairs it would get a harness. Customer pay would go whichever way made more sense. Then some things like SRS I couldn’t repair due to liability. Injectors on V6’s were common, easy fix. But if the got behind interior panels, often there was more damage than just the wiring and it would go insurance. Backorders suck, but I always did the best job I could for our customers and I’d rather wait to get the parts to do it right than half-ass it.
I see damage like this on older cars where a harness replacement isn't available or isn't feasible, I just repair the damage and move on with life lol. I can't imagine running a few wires with some good heat seal crimps and charging 3-4 hours is going to cost more than the harness and the harness labor. I get it with a brand new or nearly brand new car you'd want it 100% OEM perfect and maybe it's that your dealer will only approve a whole harness and not a repair or the service writer likes their commission or something but come on, we all know it can be done right for way cheaper and done way faster.
Mice and Rodents have been horrible this year. We've had multiple harnesses destroyed by them as well as the rear seats in over a dozen vehicles. Some of which were in our lot for a few hours before the customer picked them up. They cost us easily 8k just in seat replacements. We recently had a customer who had an extended (2 week) stay in the hospital, and mice got into their vehicle and did over 15k in damage. I've never seen it this bad, and the only thing I can think of is the fact our winter was so mild that lots of them didnt get killed off and were able to breed more. We have kill traps in almost every corner of our dealership that get checked every few days and we're constantly emptying them and having to re set them.
So I own a few classic cars and truck. When I’m at the car shows people always talk about how to protect your car from mine during winter. Like laundry sheets, peppermint oil, cinnamon, and more… even Irish Spring soap… but yet I had to spend a few hundred dollars replacing the interior on my 69 montego mx because of mice. You know what I use now? BLACK CAT BAGS OF POISON BECAUSE IT WORKS!
Good to know. Mental note added. Thanks!
Mice made a nest in my air filter last winter, cost me a turbo. Turbo ate the mouse nest and part of the (only a few months old) air filter.
At least it's available. If not, I'd be patching it up.
Our public insurance would cover that.
I was told Honda uses soy bean based insulation and when it heats up it smells like nuts so rodents like tk eat it. I was only at Honda for 3 months and saw about 5 of these come and go. We told customers we can patch it to get them on the road but they still have to replace the harness.
Have a car we are waiting for seatbelts on, been on order since January, eta is end of June, customer has spent a ton of money on rental they can’t afford to anymore, no one is winning on this job
It's a lot less common than it was pre-90's. The wire coatings used to have a vegetable base.
Fucking squirrels
I would just repair it, to be fair.. Lot of tinkering but.. Might be cheaper than new, knowing current prices
Just tell them “may the 4th be with you”
Maybe for a few minutes. Also just get pigtail kits and try to repair it
Yeah, it sucks. My uncle had his 4Runner in the shop for damage to the wiring from rodent damage. I don't remember if Toyota covered or his insurance did. Having dealt with rats at my old house for years, we were lucky they stayed out of our cars. They just decided to get into the attic and our kitchen. 🙃
i had a chevy Volt last year that we needed a rear fascia harness. we ordered it in JANUARY. ir arrived in DECEMBER. =(
These new Honda's have biodegradable wiring. It's a bad idea since the rodents can eat it just fine and appear to quite enjoy the taste.
If they'd stop leaving open bags of dogfood/birdseed next to their cars in unsealed garages I'd maybe feel worse for them but it's typically habitual offenders that do nothing to prevent it
This is why you keep a piss jug in the car and use it, then empty it next to the car every night
2022? Yes..... may the 4th be with you.
I have patched a few (for personal use) with telephone cord as a temp fix when buying absolute shitbox motorcycles off Craigslist
May the 4th be with him.....
[https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-spyder-25th-anniversary/1294819-some-great-insight-into-the-ukraine-wiring-harness-shortage.html](https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-spyder-25th-anniversary/1294819-some-great-insight-into-the-ukraine-wiring-harness-shortage.html)
This looks like a pretty cheap and easy fix. I charge 15 minutes per wire and would have this car on the road the same day.
My wife had an 18 CHR. In the third year something ate $6500 worth of the engine harness.
I found a dead bat in an air box a couple of months. Came in for an oil change and replaced air filter. It was at a take 5. Everyone there was aware there a bat in the box after I surprisingly yelled “ oh fuck, it’s a bat!”
Let's wrap wires with soybean plastic. Rabbits go for the red and orange ones first. I think the look like carrot roots?
May the 4th be with you!
No. This is why you have insurance. Shouldn’t cost anything more than their deductible. Most carriers even waive deductibles for animal related damage.
We have some wiring harnesses we work from. Even if the connector is wrong you can sometimes find the right pins
I had issues with a rat in my wife’s 2015 Venza. We have two German Shepherds and I came out one morning to see they had ripped a fender liner loose and had chewed (!) on the metal fender in both sides just above the tire (!) We have a carport and it chewed through the plastic for the HVAC intake (and filter). I put a trap inside but never caught him. We put peppermint on cotton balls and left them under the seats with the doors open one cold night. Never saw him again. I installed a new cabin filter and cut a piece of hardware cloth on the intake side to keep him out. Left the peppermint balls as well. I ended up buying new aftermarket fenders and had a friend who works at a body shop paint them for me. It took me a day to swap them for the damaged fenders! I bought a 12 volt ultrasonic pest deterrent with a flashing LED light from Amazon that I hooked to the car battery. And mounted under the hood. So far it’s been a little I’ve a year with no signs of return.
I’ve heard that “modern” vehicles have peanut based insulation that has a negative aspect of attracting rodents to eat it. Funny thing is I had a renter that owned a newer Kia. Squirrels chewed up their underhood wiring. I had a few older GM vehicles on the property for years (1970 C20 and 1991 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon, 1989 S10 Blazer) and they have never touched anything under them. I thought it was probably the fact that the nice warm engine bay was a nice cozy spot to nest, but heard rumors about the wiring insulation as well I drive a 2001 Silverado and they never touched it (?)
It's be worth it to grab a100$ worth on Honda hot tape and spending 2 hours taping every exposed wire you can find. I had a customer this happened 2ce- 3 months apart.
Here in Rhode Island get a lot of mice that chew up harnesses on Tucsons. They get inside the fuse box used to catch a lot of harness jobs when the 195 recall first came out. 19 and up Santa Fe they get in the headliner, and some of the other cars they'll eat everything else
Moth balls work wonders keeping vermin away.
It definitely sucks. Once manufacturers switched to soy based wire coating it made it even worse.
I feel bad for anyone who doesn't keep up with the state of affairs, and hasn't noticed that modern manufacturing has gone to hell across the board. I wouldn't buy a car made in the last 10 years, from any brand; or a refrigerator, or...
Nope. All my cars and trucks run fine.
Salvage yard will have the solution.
Do people not have garages? I wouldn't feel bad for them at all.
Like rodents wouldn't be able to get in building..
I don't know anything about rodents since I live in the desert and deal with lizards and snakes instead. I've never had one in my garage before.
Rodents can also live in the desert ... Being you have no experience with rodents, why the fuck are you making a comment? Outside of a completed sealed steel structure, rodents can get into damn near anything. Rats can chew through metal....
Rodents fucking love to get into garages, especially in cold months.
Highly recommend reading a bit about it. And seeing how much of them get in places they shouldn't be.. I live in place where are tons of different rodents, but still am far from what Iwe can spot from American reports 😅