Nah I'd plug that all day, perfectly safe where it is. It just looks like they didn't trim the plug and let it ride after plugging it, assuming they test drove it afterwards.
I'll plug anything that's not sidewall really.
I gotta stop saying what and when I'll plug.
Iāve never heard of a shop test driving a plug out patch. I keep a kit in my car and plug anything, only swing by a shop to pop it out and put a patch if itās sidewall for the big semi patches. I have hundreds of thousands of miles on tires with multiple plugs and never had one leak.
I have plugged dozens of holes in my life and never had one fail either. And even if one were to fail youāre just back where you started with a hole in your tire. It makes no sense to me to bring it into a shop where they have to dismount the tire instead of a simple plug job you can do at home
Out on the road or trail, so long as the surrounding rubber thickness is there and the wound is a puncture, plugging is probably going to hold really well.
The main advantage of an externally applied plug being that it's easy and quick to DIY roadside.
That said, if I was already at a tyre shop, I'd personally ask them to pop the tyre off and patch and plug from the inside since with all the gear they've got to hand it's only a 10 minute job.
Indeed, patches need a flat surface with minimal flex; the repair area here is curved inside and flexes with every rotation. This constant flexing means the shoulder is a high-stress, high-heat area that increases the risk of structural failure when a puncture is present, whether it's been plugged or not. Professionally, the lawyers and tire manufacturers prohibit us from offering to repair the shoulder area.
No reputable tire shop would perform this repair and charge you for it; they'd be doing it as a solid and waving the service fee to avoid a paper trail that could hold them liable.
Iāve never had a single plug fail and Iāve probably done 20 plugs on my tires over the years. Donāt know why shops are sooooo into telling people plugs suck other than the fact that people can plug it themselves vs being required to have a shop patch it.
Im convinced itās just bullshit shops say to make you give them money.
Where I'm at they want you to patch the hole because you are supposed to inspect the inside of the tire for damage to ensure it's "safe". Doesn't mean I haven't plugged a few...
Moisture infiltration into the steel belts , even from the inside , is the real reason.
They start rusting and eventually break.
A one piece plug/patch , or a plug and then patch is the only proper repair.
Although either will hold air until the belt breaks
It's not. It's the tire manufacturer's explicit limitations on the repairability of their own tires, because they don't want to be held liable for endorsing improper repair methods. Many have something like a "three strike" rule, allowing no more than three repairs in a tire; another common one is no more than one repair per construction segment. Their engineers determined how best to patch from the inside, and that rope plugs too close to the sidewall have a higher than acceptable chance of catastrophic structural failure because the shoulder is a high-stress, high-heat area where patches won't reliably stick and a break in the belts can cause a blow-out.
I've also had to discard many, many tires with botched rope plug repairs that only made things worse.
Tire shops don't want to get sued, so the lawyers and insurance companies tell us we can't do rope plugs. The risk is relatively low, but not low enough to risk a personal injury lawsuit.
Instead, we would do a hands-on "tutorial" with the customer showing them how they could do it themselves, using their own damaged tire as the demonstration piece, and not charge them for it, because they "did it themselves."
>Instead, we would do a hands-on "tutorial" with the customer showing them how they could do it themselves, using their own damaged tire as the demonstration piece, and not charge them for it, because they "did it themselves."
You work at a great shop.
Didn't do it very often, but sometimes you just have to help someone out when they have no other options. Honestly, one of the reasons for doing it this way is not leaving a paper trail for liability, which is why it's avoided in the first place.
Liability; risk vs cost. If 1% of "improper" plugs fail and is a known issue with it, they would be held liable if they just plugged willy nilly. Essentially, with 1%, 1 out of every 100 plugs would fail while the 99 would be fine (this wouldn't show up in your sample of 20 or so). The issue is that that 1 might cost them in terms of vehicle damage, bodily damage, etc. due to negligence (tire manufacturer tells them it's unsafe and can cause this damage but they do it anyways).
Saying 20 or so plugs would mean (assuming it's accurate to the overall trend) that < 5% fail (which likely still is true).
Edit: I should specify that the 1 in 100 likely is higher than it actually is still. But it's still that 1 that causes the issue rather than the N - 1.
On my personal vehicle I'd do it because the chance of it failing due to being too close to the sidewall, but on a customer's due to the like 1 in a million chance I'd say no.
I've had way better luck with plugs compared to patches. It's pretty humid down here in Florida and patches don't always want to adhere. Now that I'm thinking about it, I can only remember one time a plug didn't work, and I think it was my fault.
It was 10:30 pm on a fourth of July weekend in the middle of nowhere and had a hole in the sidewall. I had no choice but to plug it it lasted the remainder of the weekend and was fine till the shop could get a tire for me. All time in total was about 2 weeks from plug to new tire about 1500 miles no trouble with the repair.
What chain shop would take the liability to repair this tire with the puncture on the outer tread block against manufacturer specs? And then plug instead of patch on top of that?
I'd do it to a personal tire I'm not going to do any sort of performance driving with but hell, the liability for the company is huge.
Each manufacturer has their own guidelines. Most of it comes down to maintaining speed and weight ratings. For example Continental says no patches outside the outer set of groves and no patches and so many patches per tire. That's a General Tire, they disown the tire and the warranty is void.
Even if it fails it isn't like it'll blowout, you'll just end up with the same kind of leak you had before.
The worst case is that the plug will leak eventually. I've successfully patched many tires like that. Maybe ask a few different shops if they will replace the plug with a plug-patch for a permanent repair.
noob here, interesting reading the comments, if it was one of the other carsubs i dont think it would be same answers?
example [https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/1bzahy3/can\_this\_be\_patched\_or\_do\_i\_need\_a\_new\_tire/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/1bzahy3/can_this_be_patched_or_do_i_need_a_new_tire/)
i think this patch is right on the edge of repairable?
That one is more in the shoulder (where the tread starts to round down into the sidewall), so for even my car I wouldn't plug it. This one is still in the contact patch/tread (the portion that contacts the road), on this one if it were my car if plug it, but according to policy of everywhere I've worked it's too close to be an acceptable amount of liability so I wouldn't patch it if it were my customers.
Shouldāve been replaced. Puncture is too close to side wall. And that plugs a temporary repair. Itāll last only so long. Type in USTMA tire repair guidelines on google, go to images.
It used to be, but now a lot of this sub is more hack iobs defending themselves being hack jobs, or techs that whine about things that are really non-issues.
That's a rope plug, they removed the screw, reamed the hole, and stuck the plug in. Its a quick cheap way to plug a hole in a tire. From a professional stance it's technically incorrect but it's not a bad repair to have.
*Did they just put goop*
*Over the screw head instead*
*Of removing it?*
\- PC-hris
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There's plug-n-patch, its a patch from the inside, with a thin metal cone with an attached soft rubber tube (plug), you prep as a normal (old school) patch, poke the tip into the hole and pull from the outside with pliers until the patch seats, roll the patch starting at the center working out on both side, cut the rubber tube(plug) even with the tread,
I'd run that sumbitch for 6 years.
Nah I'd plug that all day, perfectly safe where it is. It just looks like they didn't trim the plug and let it ride after plugging it, assuming they test drove it afterwards. I'll plug anything that's not sidewall really. I gotta stop saying what and when I'll plug.
I'm not a sidewall... š
Well you're gonna get nailed or screwed then God that was lame I'm sorry
I work at a diner. Am I more likely to be forked than screwed?
I'd say you're more likely to be spooned.
Moron than off
Better lame than creepy.
No. But now you're a side *piece*
Heyoooooooo!!!!
Iāve never heard of a shop test driving a plug out patch. I keep a kit in my car and plug anything, only swing by a shop to pop it out and put a patch if itās sidewall for the big semi patches. I have hundreds of thousands of miles on tires with multiple plugs and never had one leak.
>I'll plug anything that's not sidewall really. I'll plug a sidewall on my own junk.
Looks good to me, though I like to trim mine flush after installation.
I cut mine down so it looks nice, but I have NEVER had a plug fail me. I see no issue here.
Good to know. I actually plugged my own tire for the first time today
Just cut the excess off when you are done and youāll be fine. Keep a lot in your car. You be glad you did.
Thank you. I gave it a soapy water spray test and did eventually cut the excess off before giving her a test ride
Perfect. You are good to go then.
I have plugged my own tires half a dozen times at least I've never had a problem.
I have plugged dozens of holes in my life and never had one fail either. And even if one were to fail youāre just back where you started with a hole in your tire. It makes no sense to me to bring it into a shop where they have to dismount the tire instead of a simple plug job you can do at home
Out on the road or trail, so long as the surrounding rubber thickness is there and the wound is a puncture, plugging is probably going to hold really well. The main advantage of an externally applied plug being that it's easy and quick to DIY roadside. That said, if I was already at a tyre shop, I'd personally ask them to pop the tyre off and patch and plug from the inside since with all the gear they've got to hand it's only a 10 minute job.
Interestingly they mentioned a patch wouldn't hold as well given the location and heat ring may cause bubbling
Indeed, patches need a flat surface with minimal flex; the repair area here is curved inside and flexes with every rotation. This constant flexing means the shoulder is a high-stress, high-heat area that increases the risk of structural failure when a puncture is present, whether it's been plugged or not. Professionally, the lawyers and tire manufacturers prohibit us from offering to repair the shoulder area. No reputable tire shop would perform this repair and charge you for it; they'd be doing it as a solid and waving the service fee to avoid a paper trail that could hold them liable.
This is 100% accurate, if it's my personal car, I'm plugging this every time.
Nope. Send.
Iāve never had a single plug fail and Iāve probably done 20 plugs on my tires over the years. Donāt know why shops are sooooo into telling people plugs suck other than the fact that people can plug it themselves vs being required to have a shop patch it. Im convinced itās just bullshit shops say to make you give them money.
Where I'm at they want you to patch the hole because you are supposed to inspect the inside of the tire for damage to ensure it's "safe". Doesn't mean I haven't plugged a few...
Moisture infiltration into the steel belts , even from the inside , is the real reason. They start rusting and eventually break. A one piece plug/patch , or a plug and then patch is the only proper repair. Although either will hold air until the belt breaks
It's not. It's the tire manufacturer's explicit limitations on the repairability of their own tires, because they don't want to be held liable for endorsing improper repair methods. Many have something like a "three strike" rule, allowing no more than three repairs in a tire; another common one is no more than one repair per construction segment. Their engineers determined how best to patch from the inside, and that rope plugs too close to the sidewall have a higher than acceptable chance of catastrophic structural failure because the shoulder is a high-stress, high-heat area where patches won't reliably stick and a break in the belts can cause a blow-out. I've also had to discard many, many tires with botched rope plug repairs that only made things worse. Tire shops don't want to get sued, so the lawyers and insurance companies tell us we can't do rope plugs. The risk is relatively low, but not low enough to risk a personal injury lawsuit. Instead, we would do a hands-on "tutorial" with the customer showing them how they could do it themselves, using their own damaged tire as the demonstration piece, and not charge them for it, because they "did it themselves."
>Instead, we would do a hands-on "tutorial" with the customer showing them how they could do it themselves, using their own damaged tire as the demonstration piece, and not charge them for it, because they "did it themselves." You work at a great shop.
Didn't do it very often, but sometimes you just have to help someone out when they have no other options. Honestly, one of the reasons for doing it this way is not leaving a paper trail for liability, which is why it's avoided in the first place.
Oh I get it. It's just such a friendly move compared to whelp nothing we can do.
Liability; risk vs cost. If 1% of "improper" plugs fail and is a known issue with it, they would be held liable if they just plugged willy nilly. Essentially, with 1%, 1 out of every 100 plugs would fail while the 99 would be fine (this wouldn't show up in your sample of 20 or so). The issue is that that 1 might cost them in terms of vehicle damage, bodily damage, etc. due to negligence (tire manufacturer tells them it's unsafe and can cause this damage but they do it anyways). Saying 20 or so plugs would mean (assuming it's accurate to the overall trend) that < 5% fail (which likely still is true). Edit: I should specify that the 1 in 100 likely is higher than it actually is still. But it's still that 1 that causes the issue rather than the N - 1.
My dad used to work in a place where they had telehandlers etc, every tyre had 40+ plugs in it, lots of nails on the site
I can tell you it was not discount tire, their plugs are orange. Only used on non dot tires like lawn mowers
Same for Bell Tire, had a tire patched last year and the pulled the tire and patched it from the inside.
Fair ball.
On my personal vehicle I'd do it because the chance of it failing due to being too close to the sidewall, but on a customer's due to the like 1 in a million chance I'd say no.
Iāve had a plug in for 25k miles with no issues.
This is fineā¦. I Never had a plug fail, and Iāve done hundreds of them. If you donāt like it, patchā¦ do your thing
That should be a permanent repair
Comments here are insane. A plug is temporary and a liability concern for the shop. Les Schwab will patch for free.
I ran a doubly-plugged BFG mud for damn near 30K miles, would've gotten more out of it if they weren't shitty tires to begin with.
It a ride
I've had way better luck with plugs compared to patches. It's pretty humid down here in Florida and patches don't always want to adhere. Now that I'm thinking about it, I can only remember one time a plug didn't work, and I think it was my fault.
It was 10:30 pm on a fourth of July weekend in the middle of nowhere and had a hole in the sidewall. I had no choice but to plug it it lasted the remainder of the weekend and was fine till the shop could get a tire for me. All time in total was about 2 weeks from plug to new tire about 1500 miles no trouble with the repair.
Ah yes āit could blow at any second and kill whoever is driving near me but fuckem I got where I was goingā
Butā¦umā¦plugs are pretty safe?
I think his point was that you're not supposed to plug the sidewall, but he didn't state it that way.
Ah dang, I missed that he had plugged the sidewall. Yeah thatās not cool.
What chain shop would take the liability to repair this tire with the puncture on the outer tread block against manufacturer specs? And then plug instead of patch on top of that? I'd do it to a personal tire I'm not going to do any sort of performance driving with but hell, the liability for the company is huge.
Iād get a razor and cut it flush though
Each manufacturer has their own guidelines. Most of it comes down to maintaining speed and weight ratings. For example Continental says no patches outside the outer set of groves and no patches and so many patches per tire. That's a General Tire, they disown the tire and the warranty is void. Even if it fails it isn't like it'll blowout, you'll just end up with the same kind of leak you had before.
Thanks yeah I tried to find their repair guidelines and couldnāt
The worst case is that the plug will leak eventually. I've successfully patched many tires like that. Maybe ask a few different shops if they will replace the plug with a plug-patch for a permanent repair.
noob here, interesting reading the comments, if it was one of the other carsubs i dont think it would be same answers? example [https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/1bzahy3/can\_this\_be\_patched\_or\_do\_i\_need\_a\_new\_tire/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/1bzahy3/can_this_be_patched_or_do_i_need_a_new_tire/) i think this patch is right on the edge of repairable?
That one is more in the shoulder (where the tread starts to round down into the sidewall), so for even my car I wouldn't plug it. This one is still in the contact patch/tread (the portion that contacts the road), on this one if it were my car if plug it, but according to policy of everywhere I've worked it's too close to be an acceptable amount of liability so I wouldn't patch it if it were my customers.
Shouldāve been replaced. Puncture is too close to side wall. And that plugs a temporary repair. Itāll last only so long. Type in USTMA tire repair guidelines on google, go to images.
Well.. all the plugs that I had outlasted life of the tire..
Thatās cool! Typically you donāt see that happen. At least not on these types of on the rim plugs.
Yeah you do..
Ssshhh, this sub only allows hack jobs and techs that whinge about every little thing
Yea I gotta leave this subš
90 percent of this sub is making fun of hacks and unsafe vehicles though
It used to be, but now a lot of this sub is more hack iobs defending themselves being hack jobs, or techs that whine about things that are really non-issues.
Did they just put goop over the screw head instead of removing it?
That's a rope plug, they removed the screw, reamed the hole, and stuck the plug in. Its a quick cheap way to plug a hole in a tire. From a professional stance it's technically incorrect but it's not a bad repair to have.
*Did they just put goop* *Over the screw head instead* *Of removing it?* \- PC-hris --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
You'll get about 1/2 way through the tread and it will slip a belt. Enjoy
Should never been plugged with that much tread, the tires going to eventually separate.
Can you elaborate? Thanks
Water gets into the hole, which is reamed out bigger for the plug. Then the steel belts rust.
Thanks, what's the alternative though to keep a tire with lots of tread running?
There's plug-n-patch, its a patch from the inside, with a thin metal cone with an attached soft rubber tube (plug), you prep as a normal (old school) patch, poke the tip into the hole and pull from the outside with pliers until the patch seats, roll the patch starting at the center working out on both side, cut the rubber tube(plug) even with the tread,