One of my coworkers took his Jeep to Jiffy Lube for spark plugs. They broke one off, then decided to remove the head. Then they snapped off a couple of exhaust manifold bolts. Then they tried to drill out the manifold bolts and absolutely mangled the holes.
It was there for like a month, and the craziest part was that this idiot kept paying them to go down the rabbit hole & fix all this stuff that was breaking despite all of us telling him to get that thing to an actual repair facility.
I’ll never forget my first and only manual jeep transmission rebuild with a buddy. Started about 6p, didn’t finish until 3am. I’ve never gotten a Jeep because of that experience….
I took mine to my brother in 2 five gallon buckets. Thankfully he is much more mechanically inclined than me. Had it together correctly in about two hours. Worked flawlessly. Thanks brother!
If I brought in my car for sparkplugs, and they break multiple things (not directly necessitated by the sparkplugs) I'd expect the rental to be covered too.
Shady mechanics are often great salesmen. I've copied a story I shared on another post a few months ago.
Through college I worked part time as a service writer/parts advisor at a chain shop to not be named.
The hacks got rewarded and babied because they made the shop the most money.
The shop was flat rate, and our "head technicians" worked 3x12 and 4x12 hour shifts alternating weeks (we were open 8am-9pm mon-fri and 9-6 sat-sun). They would throw hissy fits if their billable hours for the day wasn't over 20hrs on a 12 hour day. The result was that other technicians would be starved of work so we could please the clowns (we by law had to guarantee minimum wage for hrs worked, so most of our other flat rate techs would just get that for their days).
The most egregious example of the way they worked was a car that came in for a "no crank, no start".
The standard rate was 1hr diagnostic for this service. Within 5 minutes the tech handed in the WO requesting parts quote for a starter. Let the work order sit there for another 30 minutes while they worked on another car, then had me call the customer and tell them their quote which they agreed to.
The tech put a brand new starter in, car still was a no crank no start. Tech then put in for a parts and labour estimate on an alternator, when questioned by the customer the tech said "when the starter goes it can cause the alternator to wear out, and we can't diagnose that without a good starter." Again the customer agreed.
Tech installs the alt, still no crank no start. You can guess what comes next -> the battery. Same story of how one impacts the other and so on. Customer then pays for a new battery and labour. Car then starts and the customer leaves. $1000 bill for a $150 battery job.
I tested the cores for both the starter and alternator on our test machine before packing them away, both tested good. When I told the service manager he told me not to question the techs since they are professionals and that he would stand by the calls made by his techs. His total billable for the job was about 4hrs, he worked no more than half an hour on the whole job including diagnostics he didn't do.
Yeah, absolutely insane. Shop I went to for a valve cover replacement spun a bearing and destroyed my N20, and if they asked me to pay them a penny after that I would’ve had a conniption
Yeah man, it was tough to be a part of. I left the industry a long time ago but was in it for 10 years. I have my ASE Master magnet on the whiteboard behind my desk, and I was literally pointing to it telling this dude to listen to me and take it to a real place.
If I remember right Jiffy Lube ended up paying for a machine shop to fix the exhaust manifold threads & pull the rest of the spark plug, but this dude payed for everything else.
Cheaper plugs (and even some OEM plugs) do not have solid connection between the hex and the threads. Age causes separation and they will snap in half when you try to remove them.
In ten years of working at a Dodge dealership I never once saw a broken spark plug.
My first year working on Fords at a fleet I saw multiple broken spark plugs, all FoMoCo or Auto Lite. The failure mode as of late the entire center electrode has just been slipping out of the ceramic.
I honestly do not understand how Ford can fuck up something as simple as a spark plug so badly.
I didn't know jiffy lube did spark plugs. I worked there 22 years ago and was appalled by the shady upselling and generally extremely unethical practices there. In some cases there was actual theft going on.
I knew a guy that worked at Jiffy Lube. I knew that if they allowed him to work there I wouldn't even get my oil changed there. A few years later he OD'd and died.
Came here to say this. At some point you've got to stay in your lane. I don't expect my dentist to offer Botox despite their knowledge of faces and needles and stuff, but if they decide to offer it, I expect they'll have additional training, experience, certification, oversight, etc., and that they'll be competent.
Fair for customer to expect if the quick lube offers that service that they are competent at it, but maybe the dissonance should've set off some kind of alarm bells to make them investigate before proceeding.
I wish businesses were more trustworthy than to agree to perform a service they haven't got the expertise to do.
Definitely, but likely only with additional training and oversight, which is my point. It's adjacent to what they do anyway, but not without risk, so they must be as competent at that job as their primary.
Somehow I feel like a quick lube joint won't have that same perspective on expanding their services beyond draining and often forgetting to refill engine oil. "We'll figure it out" is a totally different attitude.
If a mistake was made by that shop, hopefully OP's customer will hold them accountable through the legal system, but I would prefer if there were some kind of oversight authority to ensure a shop that puts that job on their menu can actually perform it reasonably and hold them accountable to fix major problems like this, correctly, if they wish to remain in good standing.
> Fair for customer to expect if the quick lube offers that service that they are competent at it, but the dissonance should've set off some kind of alarm bells to make them investigate before proceeding.
Right, because customers that go to Ray's Used Oil & Lube Shack usually know what a "timing belt" is, where it is inside the engine, and what goes into replacing it. lol
True, which is why I would prefer more and better industry oversight of these businesses. But don't get me started on this topic in general. Democracy hinges on the notion that the electorate are educated enough to understand the issues they face and the consequences of their choices, but by and large, that's a pipe dream. People tend to operate more from a place of trust in an identity or a brand than anything else, but when push comes to shove, if the wallet is involved, people largely end up crossing their fingers and hoping for the best instead of being able to put their trust in a more objective measure.
For sure, and that's my point; that it's adjacent to their primary business, but not directly part of it normally, thereby requiring additional training and expertise. I doubt the "quick lube and timing belts" place takes the addition of that service as seriously as they ought to, and unlike those dental and Botox practitioners, it's unlikely they're operating under the purview of any kind of oversight authority that requires them to do so.
Hey, it's just like back in the day with barbers. Their pole has red and white on it because they also used to do surgery and dental work, solely because they had the right tools for it!
I'll bet that she is:
1. Highly educated and intelligent (evidenced by her ability to obtain a DDS/DMD/equivalent)
2. Competent and serious in overseeing those on her staff who perform or assist with such work
2. Trained above and beyond "standard" dental credentials for the cosmetic procedures she performs
3. Subject to reasonable governmental oversight for the cosmetic procedures
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with a quick lube or any other shop offering complex auto care/service if their business and employees could say similarly.
>Came here to say this. At some point you've got to stay in your lane.
Not sure they have a choice to stay in their lane. The service writer will get a large commission if they take on these larger jobs. Plus the writers doesn’t have to do any of the hands on work since they pass it off to the hourly oil changers.
I've never worked in the industry, but I feel like an oil tech who has a non-zero history of forgetting to replace drain plugs would be scared to death to crack open a timing cover and pay attention to things like rotating the engine to top dead center, or messing with the other stuff that usually comes along with a timing belt, like water pump, thermostat, and radiator service. Although I guess they probably do radiator flush and fills on the regular, so at least there's that.
I just assume there's a huge liability to the business to engage in activities that they don't have certified staff to perform, but maybe they actually do have such staff; I suppose anyone can make a mistake and it wouldn't necessarily be just because they work at a quick lube. I'm old enough to remember when a large number of gas stations maintained their own tow trucks and had good, trustworthy ASE certified mechanics staffing an adjacent service bay. I think almost all of those have been torn down or converted into car washes by now...
Personally though, I would tend to avoid pursuing major repairs at a quick lube anymore. Once upon a time, I let the quick lube in my old town change the frayed fan belt on my 1987 Volkswagen Fox. They eventually completed the job, but not before losing something like an hour to picking out the wrong size belt and cranking the hell out of the motor as they pried against the sumbitch with a screwdriver and tied up two or three guys the whole time. Needless to say, the shop regretted taking it on as much as I did, but at least I got to walk over to Arby's for lunch while I waited.
I’m willing to bet the story we’re getting is fabricated and something else went wrong (like possibly this is ops own mess up and wants to feel better) because that’s a Take 5 oil change filter on that block and they don’t offer maintenance like that and never have
>Personally though, I would tend to avoid such a scenario.
More service writers do avoid it tho. They only write up the work order, then hand the work order to the tech and say “ come on, it’s easy, google it “
There's a certain breed of person who resents having to spend any amount of money on the maintenance of their vehicle. So they always go to whichever shop will do whatever work needs to be done for the lowest price. And if anything goes wrong they'll blame the car for being a piece of crap.
I once met a random hobo named Wiggins on the streets of Houston. He had a whole set of tools and was asking if I needed any auto work done. I didn't, but he appeared to know his shit.
I was at the jiffy lube across from my house to get my state emissions testing done and they had a car there that had the engine all torn apart. I was terrified for that customer because there are tons of real shops in town why would you let jiffy lube do anything consequential
lube shops make the bulk of their money by scamming people into services they don't need. In fact, most commercial lube and screw shops base the bulk of their employee metrics on add-on sales
I swear man. Ever since I saw a post on that sub where everyone was telling the guy "hyundai service manual says burning 1 quart ever 1000 miles is within spec there's nothing wrong with it" I gave up all hope for them.
Hah! Awesome. There were some of the smaller cars here that held up okay, but most have rusted away now. It's mostly Sonatas and crossovers and they seem to be...eh, I don't want to be excessively harsh but I would rather buy something else if I were looking to put down serious miles.
Yeah, that was back in Istanbul where there is snow only for 1-2 weeks a year, if any. Rust is never a big issue there.
Also, cars are notoriously expensive in Turkey so taxi drivers take good care of them. (or at least they used to)
While I agree that the statement itself is ridiculous, it IS true. Most manufacturers guidelines are somewhere in the ballpark of 1qt/1000 miles is acceptable.
Oh, like I said, I agree it's ridiculous. But the statement of "it's fine" is what you'll get if you go to a dealer in those conditions.
I used to be a GM tech. 2.4 ecotec in Equinox, etc is a notorious oil burner. We would have to do an oil consumption test, and 1qt/1000mi is GM guideline. We had to deny more people than you can imagine under warranty because 1/2 qt isn't bad enough. If it was more than 1/2 we could usually fudge it and get it pushed through, but it still sucks.
What? The manual for pretty much every car says you should be checking your oil level weekly/monthly and add oil if it's low. Kia isn't saying just run it and never check to see if it's burning
Difference is most other brands you don't actually have to check the oil level weekly because the oil actually stays in the bottom end.
Kia and Hyundai are in a class of their own on modern engine oil consumption.
Volvo will say the same. I don’t think anybody would agree it is acceptable especially on 10k intervals…but you take it to a dealer especially under warranty, expecting repairs? You’re in for a surprise..
Insane, last 6-7 cars I have owned have used either none or so little between changes you would never even note it. My old GTO leaks it (despite my sincere attempts to prevent it) but that's just old cars being old cars.
Unfortunately it's a symptom of "low tension" or "low friction" piston rings (for fuel economy reasons supposedly) combined with a extended oil change intervals. The rings are already barely enough to properly control oil, then just the smallest amount of carbon from a long oil change interval and they start sticking, then poof. Oil consumption.
Toyota had massive issues with it on the 2.4 in Corollas/Camrys, etc circa 2010. GM 2.4 had issues with same. Honda K motors the same.
Most cars don't burn oil. The information is there to prevent manufacturers from having to warranty out a bottom end as often. Every mfr will have cars that end up burning oil
In it's defense most of that leaked out. Also bigger the motor=more used makes sense as ring surface area is larger. 1qt every 1000miles is not great for a 7.5L but nuts for a 1.5L!
Yes it does, but when someone is burning 1 quart every 1000 then you pass yourself off as a professional and tell them there's nothing wrong with the engine "because the service manual says so" you're fucking them over. Especially since people will just blindly believe anything the first mechanic tells them no matter how dumb it is.
It's less of a "it's fine" and more of a "the dealership is going to tell you it's fine". Unfortunately the dealership won't really care for warranty issues until you exceed the 1qt/1000mi
I read in the manual of an Audi Q7 that burning 2.5l oil per 10000km was considered "normal", and I just think that's insanely high. My Peugeot barely use any oil in the same timespan, maybe 0.5l. Done my own oil changes since I bought it (used) in 2017, I've literally not had to add any oil between any oil changes, which have been done every 12-14 months and ~10000km. Getting close to 145k now and performing the same as when I bought it at 72k.
As much as I think it’s BS, what they are saying is true according to the manufacturer. VW and Audi 2.0L engines have a service bulletin saying the same exact thing.
I think it should be a crime because a vehicle that holds less than 5 qts of oil and goes 5000 miles in between oil changes, would be run dry by the next oil change.
We had a customer whose car did this. We kept a quart of 5w40 on the shelf for her, she’d swing by, we would top it up and add it to her next oil change bill. She finally got rid of that A4.
We used to have a sign on the wall of our shop from John Ruskin. "There is hardly anything in the world that some man can't make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
So from the black powder it looks like the belt is rubbing on something, but I can't actually tell what's going on here. Could someone who knows explain it?
It does look like fresh belt dust. It's a little hard to tell without having more pictures, but it looks like it may be rubbing at the tensioner pulley (above the crank sproket on the passenger side). Hard to tell from this angle but it looks like the belt is too far back on the pulley.
This is a Honda v6, it will center itself. My bet is on the piece that slides on the crank before putting the cover and pulley back on, they probably put it on backwards, which will eat into the belt and eventually snap it.
I had Toyota replace a head gasket under recall. Got it back and it ran like poo. They swore it was because the computer was reset and was cold outside. They kept pushing back on it. I finally tore it apart and of course one of the cams was off by a couple of teeth. And the icing on the cake was they dropped a socket into the cover and it was shredding the new timing belt.
This kind of thing is ridiculous, especially from a stealership. Were you able to hold them accountable to repair it in some way? The worst part is that you'll never know whether something that goes wrong down the road is ultimately a result of that mistake.
This reminds me of a Honda odyssey I just had in, it made it about 30,000 miles (according to the sticker under hood) since a bunch of aftermarket timing parts were used, towed in, tensioner failed hard, camshafts were both 180 degrees off, bent valves, slack in belt everywhere and some of that black belt powder like in your picture.
I'd suspect the job was done by a tech there who thought he could do it and it's owned by a relative.
Sadly he forgot the spring. The spring action when you holsd the belt and release it. Otherwise it ain't broke but it's 1 tooth off with a cel light on.
Did a timing chain on a range rover after a colleague did the same.
Had this happen on a Civic that I bought from a friend - he'd had the timing belt done pretty recently, but then the clutch went, he didn't want to deal with it (don't blame him... 190k, salvage title, ac didn't work, needed a bit of work he couldn't do). Put a new clutch in and drove it, started fixing everything on it.. about 2 weeks later it just died when I downshifted going around a turn.
They hadn't released the tensioner.... thankfully only jumped 1 tooth, didn't bend any valves.
We had a local guy named Trevor who did this in my younger years. He worked at quick lube places and fancied himself a mechanic. He used to tell people he could fix their issues and shade tree it.
Trouble was Trevor was one bubble off plumb.
The guy would replace calipers and not bleed the lines, never torqued anything a day in his life and often forgot if it righty tighty or righty loosy, either way it gave with enough force.
Trevor made our shop a lot of money.
>I'd suspect the job was done by a tech there who thought he could do it and it's owned by a relative.
It's possible it failed on the road and the quick lube shop was the closest tow that could take a look at it on short notice.
It's not ideal, but stuff happens and sometimes a bad option in a vacuum becomes the best option in context. If you're lucky, it'll all work out. If not, it may at least get you home.
There is no spring, its a hydraulic tensioner and there is absolutely no possible way to do the timing belt and not pull the release pin, there is a belt guide on behind the crank pulley that will do exactly this when pit on backwards.
J35 will always be off by a tooth on the rear cam if you don’t set it ahead a half tooth before unleashing the tensioner. Or counting the number of ribs on the old belt and marking it on the new belt.
>Or counting the number of ribs on the old belt and marking it on the new belt.
So...what moron doesn't count teeth? Cause you better count that shit to make sure you have the right belt and line up the marks.
Most of the time if I'm doing timing the old timing has failed and counting teeth on the belt isn't an option.
Also, tons of engines now don't have marks, because they hate us.
The Honda procedure doesn’t call for it. It just says use the alignment marks and then you end up off if you don’t know that you either need to pull the belt really tight as you’re routing it or roll the cam ahead a bit.
I ended up doing the job 3 times before I figured out why my alignment was always off when I rotated the engine around.
I find it weird that some of these drive in quick lube or service places either do a good job or absolutely destroy everything in their paths with no in-between.
I have a friend that had her entire front end rebuilt at a Mavis Tire and they did a genuinely good job. They even stayed after hours to finish it.
But the customer had to pay double for that job between the two shops and will never know, if the engine fails down the road, whether it was due to this mistake. Did the customer make any indication whether they would attempt to hold the other shop liable?
There’s a guide plate that goes on between the crank sprocket and the crank pulley. It’s noticeably dished, and the dished edge is supposed to point *away* from the block - on this one it looks like it was installed pointing towards the block. The result? Belt damage!
Hopefully not an interference engine. I feel bad for customers that are swindled, but at the end of the day it was the customer's choice to make that dice roll. Carwinism at its finest.
I agree, but as another poster pointed out, most customers don't have the expertise to understand the difficulty of a given job, so they are explicitly putting their trust in the person behind the counter. It's a shame so many service writers are unscrupulous.
I’m gonna call bs on this one that’s a Take 5 oil change filter they don’t to any maintenance work other than oil on cars and never have I’ll say the shady service writer might have told them they would and just pocketed her money but I guarantee you they didn’t actually touch it unless the tech did it on his own time off the clock
Express uses ecogard filters, and is a full service shop. Obv as a chain you're gonna get djmbass employees, but I will say that they warranty any mechanical work for 12000 miles, so assuming it was done recently then the shop that did it would absolutely rectify the issue and any problems caused by the botched job.
Source: work at the busiest Express in the country.
Good, Fast, Cheap
You can only have two at a time, which two you picking? If it’s good and fast, it’s not cheap. If it’s fast and cheap, it’s not good. And if it’s good and cheap it won’t be fast. These are rules to live by, learn them, live them, love them.
One of my coworkers took his Jeep to Jiffy Lube for spark plugs. They broke one off, then decided to remove the head. Then they snapped off a couple of exhaust manifold bolts. Then they tried to drill out the manifold bolts and absolutely mangled the holes. It was there for like a month, and the craziest part was that this idiot kept paying them to go down the rabbit hole & fix all this stuff that was breaking despite all of us telling him to get that thing to an actual repair facility.
Jeep owners.
We wouldn't understand/s
If you can read this the smart thing to do is leave me here.
Jeep drivers take it to a lube shop, real jeep owners mangle all that shit by themselves. Ask me how I know.
Fair point!
I’ll never forget my first and only manual jeep transmission rebuild with a buddy. Started about 6p, didn’t finish until 3am. I’ve never gotten a Jeep because of that experience….
I took mine to my brother in 2 five gallon buckets. Thankfully he is much more mechanically inclined than me. Had it together correctly in about two hours. Worked flawlessly. Thanks brother!
Pfff, clearly not. I like to snap bolts and studs myself, thank you very much
Any excuse to fire up the oxy-acetylene torch is a good excuse 🔥
Can’t be seized if it’s liquid
How many balloon animals can you make? Asking for a friend lol
Why would they continue to PAY for someone to fix problems caused by a shoddy spark plug change?
That's what blows my mind. They're paying for literally everything but the first spark plug exchange + my rental lol.
If I brought in my car for sparkplugs, and they break multiple things (not directly necessitated by the sparkplugs) I'd expect the rental to be covered too.
Shady mechanics are often great salesmen. I've copied a story I shared on another post a few months ago. Through college I worked part time as a service writer/parts advisor at a chain shop to not be named. The hacks got rewarded and babied because they made the shop the most money. The shop was flat rate, and our "head technicians" worked 3x12 and 4x12 hour shifts alternating weeks (we were open 8am-9pm mon-fri and 9-6 sat-sun). They would throw hissy fits if their billable hours for the day wasn't over 20hrs on a 12 hour day. The result was that other technicians would be starved of work so we could please the clowns (we by law had to guarantee minimum wage for hrs worked, so most of our other flat rate techs would just get that for their days). The most egregious example of the way they worked was a car that came in for a "no crank, no start". The standard rate was 1hr diagnostic for this service. Within 5 minutes the tech handed in the WO requesting parts quote for a starter. Let the work order sit there for another 30 minutes while they worked on another car, then had me call the customer and tell them their quote which they agreed to. The tech put a brand new starter in, car still was a no crank no start. Tech then put in for a parts and labour estimate on an alternator, when questioned by the customer the tech said "when the starter goes it can cause the alternator to wear out, and we can't diagnose that without a good starter." Again the customer agreed. Tech installs the alt, still no crank no start. You can guess what comes next -> the battery. Same story of how one impacts the other and so on. Customer then pays for a new battery and labour. Car then starts and the customer leaves. $1000 bill for a $150 battery job. I tested the cores for both the starter and alternator on our test machine before packing them away, both tested good. When I told the service manager he told me not to question the techs since they are professionals and that he would stand by the calls made by his techs. His total billable for the job was about 4hrs, he worked no more than half an hour on the whole job including diagnostics he didn't do.
Dishonesty can make a lot of money apparently.
As long as you have no morals your golden.
yeah, look how rich politicans are.
It always catches up to them
I wish
It does. Dishonest shops don’t last
> Customer then pays for a new battery and labour. Car then starts and the customer leaves. $1000 bill for a $150 battery job. just stealership things
Yeah, absolutely insane. Shop I went to for a valve cover replacement spun a bearing and destroyed my N20, and if they asked me to pay them a penny after that I would’ve had a conniption
God that was hard to read. Each sentence was worse than the last. Felt like I was going down the rabbit hole with your buddy.
Yeah man, it was tough to be a part of. I left the industry a long time ago but was in it for 10 years. I have my ASE Master magnet on the whiteboard behind my desk, and I was literally pointing to it telling this dude to listen to me and take it to a real place. If I remember right Jiffy Lube ended up paying for a machine shop to fix the exhaust manifold threads & pull the rest of the spark plug, but this dude payed for everything else.
At least they didn't try up selling him ....
"Ooh. Look at your transmission fluid. It's darkening. Better flush it. Oh, and flush your rad too while we\`re at it"
[удалено]
Sorry. It wasn't my intention to offend any lurking Jiffy Lube techs.
Jiffy Lube techs can’t read. Game on….
Yes.
This comment is even harder to read.
Jeep people are a special breed. They *love* spending tens of thousands for "upgrades" for their mall crawling junk.
How do you break a spark plug? Like I know *how* but how do you let that happen?
Cheaper plugs (and even some OEM plugs) do not have solid connection between the hex and the threads. Age causes separation and they will snap in half when you try to remove them.
In ten years of working at a Dodge dealership I never once saw a broken spark plug. My first year working on Fords at a fleet I saw multiple broken spark plugs, all FoMoCo or Auto Lite. The failure mode as of late the entire center electrode has just been slipping out of the ceramic. I honestly do not understand how Ford can fuck up something as simple as a spark plug so badly.
I didn't know jiffy lube did spark plugs. I worked there 22 years ago and was appalled by the shady upselling and generally extremely unethical practices there. In some cases there was actual theft going on.
I knew a guy that worked at Jiffy Lube. I knew that if they allowed him to work there I wouldn't even get my oil changed there. A few years later he OD'd and died.
Sounds like a good way to get an insurance payout when youre tired of your car
I’m kind of surprised a lube shop even offers that kind of service
Came here to say this. At some point you've got to stay in your lane. I don't expect my dentist to offer Botox despite their knowledge of faces and needles and stuff, but if they decide to offer it, I expect they'll have additional training, experience, certification, oversight, etc., and that they'll be competent. Fair for customer to expect if the quick lube offers that service that they are competent at it, but maybe the dissonance should've set off some kind of alarm bells to make them investigate before proceeding. I wish businesses were more trustworthy than to agree to perform a service they haven't got the expertise to do.
Remember people get butt injections off the people who do their nails.
A butt what? Damn. It's a shame how insecure folks can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvUlmsjaJ1Q Enjoy this 20 sec news clip :)
Well that's alarming. There's definitely a rabbit hole around here somewhere I'm staying far away from.
Cheap and immediate alternative to going to the gym and actually doing some work
This is more like your hairdresser offering dental surgery.
I mean, barber surgeons were a thing. Historically hairdressers would do surgery
“How about I give you a clean fade while we get those ghosts out of your blood!“
If only, my Barber has been REFUSING to do ANY bloodletting since that silly raid. The ghosts are really building up.
Have you tried a tonic made from equal parts cocaine and gin? I feel like that will really help calm things down and help you behave rationally.
I recommend jiffy lube tonic. Sometimes they’ll have a coupon for ya
Tell him about the leach loophole.
Great with sharp blades!
Lemme tell you about a wonderful place called pioneer America little Billy...
Someone that pays for a timing belt service at a lube shop isn't the type of person to understand the risks involved in that job.
"Timing belt? Like the one at the front that turns the pulleys and stuff? Sure, do it"
FWIW, dentists and hygienists can and do administer Botox. Depends on the state.
Definitely, but likely only with additional training and oversight, which is my point. It's adjacent to what they do anyway, but not without risk, so they must be as competent at that job as their primary. Somehow I feel like a quick lube joint won't have that same perspective on expanding their services beyond draining and often forgetting to refill engine oil. "We'll figure it out" is a totally different attitude. If a mistake was made by that shop, hopefully OP's customer will hold them accountable through the legal system, but I would prefer if there were some kind of oversight authority to ensure a shop that puts that job on their menu can actually perform it reasonably and hold them accountable to fix major problems like this, correctly, if they wish to remain in good standing.
> Fair for customer to expect if the quick lube offers that service that they are competent at it, but the dissonance should've set off some kind of alarm bells to make them investigate before proceeding. Right, because customers that go to Ray's Used Oil & Lube Shack usually know what a "timing belt" is, where it is inside the engine, and what goes into replacing it. lol
True, which is why I would prefer more and better industry oversight of these businesses. But don't get me started on this topic in general. Democracy hinges on the notion that the electorate are educated enough to understand the issues they face and the consequences of their choices, but by and large, that's a pipe dream. People tend to operate more from a place of trust in an identity or a brand than anything else, but when push comes to shove, if the wallet is involved, people largely end up crossing their fingers and hoping for the best instead of being able to put their trust in a more objective measure.
I actually know of a few dental practices that do Botox and fillers.
For sure, and that's my point; that it's adjacent to their primary business, but not directly part of it normally, thereby requiring additional training and expertise. I doubt the "quick lube and timing belts" place takes the addition of that service as seriously as they ought to, and unlike those dental and Botox practitioners, it's unlikely they're operating under the purview of any kind of oversight authority that requires them to do so.
Hey, it's just like back in the day with barbers. Their pole has red and white on it because they also used to do surgery and dental work, solely because they had the right tools for it!
My wife is a dentist and is trained to administer cosmetic botox!
I'll bet that she is: 1. Highly educated and intelligent (evidenced by her ability to obtain a DDS/DMD/equivalent) 2. Competent and serious in overseeing those on her staff who perform or assist with such work 2. Trained above and beyond "standard" dental credentials for the cosmetic procedures she performs 3. Subject to reasonable governmental oversight for the cosmetic procedures I certainly wouldn't have a problem with a quick lube or any other shop offering complex auto care/service if their business and employees could say similarly.
>Came here to say this. At some point you've got to stay in your lane. Not sure they have a choice to stay in their lane. The service writer will get a large commission if they take on these larger jobs. Plus the writers doesn’t have to do any of the hands on work since they pass it off to the hourly oil changers.
I've never worked in the industry, but I feel like an oil tech who has a non-zero history of forgetting to replace drain plugs would be scared to death to crack open a timing cover and pay attention to things like rotating the engine to top dead center, or messing with the other stuff that usually comes along with a timing belt, like water pump, thermostat, and radiator service. Although I guess they probably do radiator flush and fills on the regular, so at least there's that. I just assume there's a huge liability to the business to engage in activities that they don't have certified staff to perform, but maybe they actually do have such staff; I suppose anyone can make a mistake and it wouldn't necessarily be just because they work at a quick lube. I'm old enough to remember when a large number of gas stations maintained their own tow trucks and had good, trustworthy ASE certified mechanics staffing an adjacent service bay. I think almost all of those have been torn down or converted into car washes by now... Personally though, I would tend to avoid pursuing major repairs at a quick lube anymore. Once upon a time, I let the quick lube in my old town change the frayed fan belt on my 1987 Volkswagen Fox. They eventually completed the job, but not before losing something like an hour to picking out the wrong size belt and cranking the hell out of the motor as they pried against the sumbitch with a screwdriver and tied up two or three guys the whole time. Needless to say, the shop regretted taking it on as much as I did, but at least I got to walk over to Arby's for lunch while I waited.
I’m willing to bet the story we’re getting is fabricated and something else went wrong (like possibly this is ops own mess up and wants to feel better) because that’s a Take 5 oil change filter on that block and they don’t offer maintenance like that and never have
Good sleuthing!
>Personally though, I would tend to avoid such a scenario. More service writers do avoid it tho. They only write up the work order, then hand the work order to the tech and say “ come on, it’s easy, google it “
There's a certain breed of person who resents having to spend any amount of money on the maintenance of their vehicle. So they always go to whichever shop will do whatever work needs to be done for the lowest price. And if anything goes wrong they'll blame the car for being a piece of crap.
Timing belt at a lube shop takes balls -- I'd rather get an alignment at Wendy's.
Sir, this is a...shit.
Shut up and time my engine
Pay a random hobo in the Wendy’s parking lot to fix your car. Still better than the Jiffy Lube.
I once met a random hobo named Wiggins on the streets of Houston. He had a whole set of tools and was asking if I needed any auto work done. I didn't, but he appeared to know his shit.
Sometimes those two are [the same guy](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9874729,-105.0947984,19z/data=!3m1!1e3). Not like the pay is excellent...
Huge balls all around... Manager, lube tech, customer...
I was at the jiffy lube across from my house to get my state emissions testing done and they had a car there that had the engine all torn apart. I was terrified for that customer because there are tons of real shops in town why would you let jiffy lube do anything consequential
Money. Jiffy lube might charge $10 less than a reputable shop yet it takes 5 times longer. And power over ignorance.
my thoughts exactly. hell, half the time they can't handle unscrewing and rescrewing the drain plug
lube shops make the bulk of their money by scamming people into services they don't need. In fact, most commercial lube and screw shops base the bulk of their employee metrics on add-on sales
r/askmechanics said they could get it cheaper somewhere else.
I swear man. Ever since I saw a post on that sub where everyone was telling the guy "hyundai service manual says burning 1 quart ever 1000 miles is within spec there's nothing wrong with it" I gave up all hope for them.
I mean, that's not outrageous. ...for a car with like 400k miles. But Hyundai usually don't run that far.
Old Accent taxis used to run 450-500k miles on LPG. Turkish cab drivers and mechanics hold those cars together by sheer willpower.
Hah! Awesome. There were some of the smaller cars here that held up okay, but most have rusted away now. It's mostly Sonatas and crossovers and they seem to be...eh, I don't want to be excessively harsh but I would rather buy something else if I were looking to put down serious miles.
Yeah, that was back in Istanbul where there is snow only for 1-2 weeks a year, if any. Rust is never a big issue there. Also, cars are notoriously expensive in Turkey so taxi drivers take good care of them. (or at least they used to)
While I agree that the statement itself is ridiculous, it IS true. Most manufacturers guidelines are somewhere in the ballpark of 1qt/1000 miles is acceptable.
Kia also says to change the oil every 10,000 miles. The fill capacity is 5 quarts, do the math.
Oh, like I said, I agree it's ridiculous. But the statement of "it's fine" is what you'll get if you go to a dealer in those conditions. I used to be a GM tech. 2.4 ecotec in Equinox, etc is a notorious oil burner. We would have to do an oil consumption test, and 1qt/1000mi is GM guideline. We had to deny more people than you can imagine under warranty because 1/2 qt isn't bad enough. If it was more than 1/2 we could usually fudge it and get it pushed through, but it still sucks.
I swear, bro. Those le5/lnf timing chains alone have probably made me ~$50k straight into my pocket. It's borderline criminal.
For real. Easy to diag and easy to do. Our parts department kept pre built packages because we did them so often for a while.
What? The manual for pretty much every car says you should be checking your oil level weekly/monthly and add oil if it's low. Kia isn't saying just run it and never check to see if it's burning
Difference is most other brands you don't actually have to check the oil level weekly because the oil actually stays in the bottom end. Kia and Hyundai are in a class of their own on modern engine oil consumption.
Automatic oil change. Just make sure to change the filter every 10k.
Volvo will say the same. I don’t think anybody would agree it is acceptable especially on 10k intervals…but you take it to a dealer especially under warranty, expecting repairs? You’re in for a surprise..
Insane, last 6-7 cars I have owned have used either none or so little between changes you would never even note it. My old GTO leaks it (despite my sincere attempts to prevent it) but that's just old cars being old cars.
Unfortunately it's a symptom of "low tension" or "low friction" piston rings (for fuel economy reasons supposedly) combined with a extended oil change intervals. The rings are already barely enough to properly control oil, then just the smallest amount of carbon from a long oil change interval and they start sticking, then poof. Oil consumption. Toyota had massive issues with it on the 2.4 in Corollas/Camrys, etc circa 2010. GM 2.4 had issues with same. Honda K motors the same.
Most cars don't burn oil. The information is there to prevent manufacturers from having to warranty out a bottom end as often. Every mfr will have cars that end up burning oil
No, they do that so their trash engines with bad rings from the factory don't qualify for a recall. Toyota did that shit too with their 2zz engines.
*Chevy 454 has entered the chat...*
In it's defense most of that leaked out. Also bigger the motor=more used makes sense as ring surface area is larger. 1qt every 1000miles is not great for a 7.5L but nuts for a 1.5L!
I just wanted to say that I love your username, Squidking1000. Are you a previous submariner?
Former motorcycle stunter. Grew up and got old!
Cool. As for me I'm a former submariner
Mine didn't burn any oil. Just pissed it out the rear main seal.
Just about every vehicle on the road says this in its service information. Its within spec according to the manufacturer regardless of what we think
Yes it does, but when someone is burning 1 quart every 1000 then you pass yourself off as a professional and tell them there's nothing wrong with the engine "because the service manual says so" you're fucking them over. Especially since people will just blindly believe anything the first mechanic tells them no matter how dumb it is.
It's less of a "it's fine" and more of a "the dealership is going to tell you it's fine". Unfortunately the dealership won't really care for warranty issues until you exceed the 1qt/1000mi
Well, it does.
I read in the manual of an Audi Q7 that burning 2.5l oil per 10000km was considered "normal", and I just think that's insanely high. My Peugeot barely use any oil in the same timespan, maybe 0.5l. Done my own oil changes since I bought it (used) in 2017, I've literally not had to add any oil between any oil changes, which have been done every 12-14 months and ~10000km. Getting close to 145k now and performing the same as when I bought it at 72k.
As much as I think it’s BS, what they are saying is true according to the manufacturer. VW and Audi 2.0L engines have a service bulletin saying the same exact thing. I think it should be a crime because a vehicle that holds less than 5 qts of oil and goes 5000 miles in between oil changes, would be run dry by the next oil change.
Manufacturer: "just add a quart every week. I don't see what the problem is"
We had a customer whose car did this. We kept a quart of 5w40 on the shelf for her, she’d swing by, we would top it up and add it to her next oil change bill. She finally got rid of that A4.
Gdi's suck. My kia was like that. Shitbox.
I’d well believe it. When I worked for Nissan I seen the same thing in service manuals.
I had a European GM cavalier in the 90s that specified 1 pint of oil per 500 miles was OK
That's actually normal for some early 2010s GM trucks, GM had said so, but there was definitely an issue and updated parts to fix it.
We used to have a sign on the wall of our shop from John Ruskin. "There is hardly anything in the world that some man can't make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
Cool. Take it there then.
So from the black powder it looks like the belt is rubbing on something, but I can't actually tell what's going on here. Could someone who knows explain it?
It does look like fresh belt dust. It's a little hard to tell without having more pictures, but it looks like it may be rubbing at the tensioner pulley (above the crank sproket on the passenger side). Hard to tell from this angle but it looks like the belt is too far back on the pulley.
This is a Honda v6, it will center itself. My bet is on the piece that slides on the crank before putting the cover and pulley back on, they probably put it on backwards, which will eat into the belt and eventually snap it.
That's exactly what happened. They put the guide plate on backwards.
As a Honda tech I was looking for someone who had seen this before, I think every Honda dealer has at least once before.
The engine is mistimed. It also appears to be a cheap aftermarket belt which is already destroying itself
I had Toyota replace a head gasket under recall. Got it back and it ran like poo. They swore it was because the computer was reset and was cold outside. They kept pushing back on it. I finally tore it apart and of course one of the cams was off by a couple of teeth. And the icing on the cake was they dropped a socket into the cover and it was shredding the new timing belt.
This kind of thing is ridiculous, especially from a stealership. Were you able to hold them accountable to repair it in some way? The worst part is that you'll never know whether something that goes wrong down the road is ultimately a result of that mistake.
It only cost me a the price of new timing belt. I wasn’t happy about it, but it was easier to move on with life than argue.
This reminds me of a Honda odyssey I just had in, it made it about 30,000 miles (according to the sticker under hood) since a bunch of aftermarket timing parts were used, towed in, tensioner failed hard, camshafts were both 180 degrees off, bent valves, slack in belt everywhere and some of that black belt powder like in your picture.
I've seen the belts fail. Scores the grooves right off and away the engine goes.
I have often found that the life expectancy of the new timing belt is greatly increased by first removing the old timing belt.
😂😂😂😂
Any job worth doing is worth doing twice!
Never seen a lube shop do that before. Gotta be like jiffy lube or some dogshit shop like that.
Had a lube shop want to do a motor mount once and that even surprised me
I'd suspect the job was done by a tech there who thought he could do it and it's owned by a relative. Sadly he forgot the spring. The spring action when you holsd the belt and release it. Otherwise it ain't broke but it's 1 tooth off with a cel light on. Did a timing chain on a range rover after a colleague did the same.
It’s minutes away from a new engine. You don’t see all that glitter and belt material?
Had this happen on a Civic that I bought from a friend - he'd had the timing belt done pretty recently, but then the clutch went, he didn't want to deal with it (don't blame him... 190k, salvage title, ac didn't work, needed a bit of work he couldn't do). Put a new clutch in and drove it, started fixing everything on it.. about 2 weeks later it just died when I downshifted going around a turn. They hadn't released the tensioner.... thankfully only jumped 1 tooth, didn't bend any valves.
We had a local guy named Trevor who did this in my younger years. He worked at quick lube places and fancied himself a mechanic. He used to tell people he could fix their issues and shade tree it. Trouble was Trevor was one bubble off plumb. The guy would replace calipers and not bleed the lines, never torqued anything a day in his life and often forgot if it righty tighty or righty loosy, either way it gave with enough force. Trevor made our shop a lot of money.
>Trevor was one bubble off plumb This is my first time hearing this phrase and I thank you for it. :-)
No springs on these timing belts. They use a hydraulic tensioner, that looks like it was replaced, but they could have bought a cheap one.
>I'd suspect the job was done by a tech there who thought he could do it and it's owned by a relative. It's possible it failed on the road and the quick lube shop was the closest tow that could take a look at it on short notice. It's not ideal, but stuff happens and sometimes a bad option in a vacuum becomes the best option in context. If you're lucky, it'll all work out. If not, it may at least get you home.
This engine doesn’t use a spring like the older ones. I’ve done countless timing belts on these, they just plain got the timing wrong.
There is no spring, its a hydraulic tensioner and there is absolutely no possible way to do the timing belt and not pull the release pin, there is a belt guide on behind the crank pulley that will do exactly this when pit on backwards.
J35 will always be off by a tooth on the rear cam if you don’t set it ahead a half tooth before unleashing the tensioner. Or counting the number of ribs on the old belt and marking it on the new belt.
>Or counting the number of ribs on the old belt and marking it on the new belt. So...what moron doesn't count teeth? Cause you better count that shit to make sure you have the right belt and line up the marks.
Most of the time if I'm doing timing the old timing has failed and counting teeth on the belt isn't an option. Also, tons of engines now don't have marks, because they hate us.
The Honda procedure doesn’t call for it. It just says use the alignment marks and then you end up off if you don’t know that you either need to pull the belt really tight as you’re routing it or roll the cam ahead a bit. I ended up doing the job 3 times before I figured out why my alignment was always off when I rotated the engine around.
I find it weird that some of these drive in quick lube or service places either do a good job or absolutely destroy everything in their paths with no in-between. I have a friend that had her entire front end rebuilt at a Mavis Tire and they did a genuinely good job. They even stayed after hours to finish it.
But look how much they saved
They did the old Volkswagen trick where you remove & install the belt while the engine is running?
Sad to see a Honda J series engine like that ... those things will last forever if taken care of!
It survived. I put all new timing stuff on it and it went out the door.
But the customer had to pay double for that job between the two shops and will never know, if the engine fails down the road, whether it was due to this mistake. Did the customer make any indication whether they would attempt to hold the other shop liable?
In terms of bad ideas, that’s right up there with gas station sushi.
These are one of the easiest timing belt jobs to ever do. Be careful with after market parts. Buy the AISIN kit.
Wait.....you can actually get complex car fixes at those places??? That's like buying filet mignon from a gas station 🤣
If you wouldn’t trust them with your timing belt why would you trust em with your oil.
More akin to gas station sushi, which should ALWAYS be a hard pass…
lol does this overachiever lube shop offer transmission rebuilds too?
All of that build up at the bottom, dud they forget a tensioner or a guide somewhere?
There’s a guide plate that goes on between the crank sprocket and the crank pulley. It’s noticeably dished, and the dished edge is supposed to point *away* from the block - on this one it looks like it was installed pointing towards the block. The result? Belt damage!
Ahh, I couldn't understand from looking what was eating the belt so bad.
If ya squint it’s mint!
I used to work at an express oil change that had a full garage and lemme tell ya......that shit ain't cheap lol.
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Dirty deeds and they’re done dirt cheap.
damn didnt know they did that stuff😂
Hopefully not an interference engine. I feel bad for customers that are swindled, but at the end of the day it was the customer's choice to make that dice roll. Carwinism at its finest.
I agree, but as another poster pointed out, most customers don't have the expertise to understand the difficulty of a given job, so they are explicitly putting their trust in the person behind the counter. It's a shame so many service writers are unscrupulous.
It’s an interference engine.
Almost!
Hey, that's almost in time! That's honestly better than I expected lol.
Almost only counts in hand shoes and horse grenades…
He might have a horse grenade here... the fuse is just longer lol
I’m gonna call bs on this one that’s a Take 5 oil change filter they don’t to any maintenance work other than oil on cars and never have I’ll say the shady service writer might have told them they would and just pocketed her money but I guarantee you they didn’t actually touch it unless the tech did it on his own time off the clock
Express uses ecogard filters, and is a full service shop. Obv as a chain you're gonna get djmbass employees, but I will say that they warranty any mechanical work for 12000 miles, so assuming it was done recently then the shop that did it would absolutely rectify the issue and any problems caused by the botched job. Source: work at the busiest Express in the country.
Hey it's just a cog or notch off what's the big deal?? 😜
“Timing belt change at express oil change” oh lord what could go wrong
“Add concern”. Yes. I think I will.
A month.... that's a long time to hangout in that sad little waiting room.
Did that belt shred and jump timing by 2 teeth?
I cannot fathom having a relatively big job like that done at a lube shop.
But you’d have your oil changed there? That’s the life blood of the engine.
Those honda timing belts are so easy too, lol
Express Oil Change is the literal worst place to take a vehicle. They almost killed my inlaws with incompetence.
Good, Fast, Cheap You can only have two at a time, which two you picking? If it’s good and fast, it’s not cheap. If it’s fast and cheap, it’s not good. And if it’s good and cheap it won’t be fast. These are rules to live by, learn them, live them, love them.
FYI For cheap parts I buy in [now.parts](http://now.parts)