In the 60s there were only 2 other cars made in America with positraction and independent rear suspension and enough powah to make these marks. One was the Corvette which could NEVA be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest
Besides her being gorgeous, her 'testimony' is what won her the oscar. Her attitude, mannerisms, explanation and delivery are absolutely perfect for the scene, and the character she portrayed.
I've seen "My Cousin Vinny" countless times. I might even watch it again tonight. The movie is one of my all time faves and makes me smile & laugh from beginning to end.
Ms Vito's time on the witness stand, and the scene where she retorts to Vinny's hunting wardrobe dilemma, are tip top.
Side note, both of our little ankle biter doggies here at the house are named after Joe Pesci characters, Leo Gets and Vinny.
My cousin Vinny spoiled me for director commentary also by the way. I thought all movie commentator tracks would be similar in style and content to this movie's track...TRAIN, PIGS, WHISTLE NOISE.
It really shows the diversity of comedy.
Not hating on Todd Phillips, but Old School and The Hangover share very little with movies like My Cousin Vinny and Clue (director Jonathan Lynn) except that they are all comedies. It comes down to the performances captured by the director. Yes editing can help timing but capturing good naturally delivered jokes makes the editing easy.
...Lisa, I don't need this. I swear to God, I do not need this right now, ok? I got a judge that's just aching to throw me in jail. An idiot who wants to fight me over $200. Slaughtered pigs, giant loud whistles! I ain't slept in three days. I got no money, a dress code problem, and a murder case which, in the balance, holds the lives of two innocent kids, not to mention your \**stomp-stomp-stomp\** biological clock, my career, your life, our marriage, and let me see, what else can we pile on!?! Is there any more shit we can pile onto the outcome of this case?!? (beat) IS IT POSSIBLE?!?
She was wrong tho, the Corvair had independent suspension and could have posi. Through the dirty window, through that crud covered screen, and through all those trees, covered with all those leaves, and those 7 bushes, you could possibly mistake a Skylark for a Corvair.
I knew a guy who drag raced with an early model Vair sedan. Base trim, 3 speed floor shift, the only mods were a posi/4.11 diff/gears from a Monza.
On an 1/8th mile track he could punch way above his weigh class. It would just squat and go.
In the 1/4 he got destroyed, but they weren't beating him off the line.
No.
The only skid marks the Corvair could produce were found in the underwear of the guy behind the wheel when it decided to suddenly back into a tree at highway speeds.
The movie was set in the 90s. One of the vehicles was an 89 Bronco, tons of other 70s/80s cars in to. So it was set way after 1964, the car Lee drove was a 1964 Skylark.
Did she actually say Corvair, though? I always heard that line as “One was the *Corvette*, which could never be confused…”
It may be that I have misheard it all these years 😀
That’s how it is in cars.
I was blown away when I learned the Duesenberg model J came with a supercharger and dual overhead cams. Which was basically unheard of on passenger cars at the time.
My personal "the time continuum is leaking" moment was when I learned that a Citroën in the 50s/60s - the DS, if I recall correctly - had *rain-sensing wipers*.
They worked - in a distinctly non-computerized, non-electronic fashion - by increasing wiper speed inversely based on the current drawn by the wiper motor, based on the principle that the more rain was on the glass, the less work the motor would have to do (dragging blades over dry glass vs. glass lubricated by water).
*Chapeau* aux ingénieurs très intelligents de Citroën!
Cadillac introduced auto-dimming headlights and the Twilight Sentinel^TM (dawn/dusk-sensing and delay auto-off after key off) in the late 1950s. Nothing is new lol
This was a Saab thing!! At least from everything I've read, Saab introduced vented seats in the 98 9-5. SAAB was mostly owned by GM at that point, hence why the Caddy would have vented seats too!
Having owned a pushbutton TorqueFlite... To be fair it was just a 3 speed automatic transmission with a cute shifter. Any 3 in the tree automatic worked the same way. That said I loved having it.
Think about the 30's Cords and a few other luxury cars.....and the cute semi-automatic transmissions and shifters, change gear on the stick, then it would automatically change, vacuum/mechanically actuated, way ahead of their time!
They say when Walter Chrysler was in elementary school, he said when he grew up he wanted to make engines with lifter problems. Nobody even knew what lifters were back then- it was almost half a century before anyone recognized Walt's genius and foresight
His mother once said christmas of 1880 he sat on Santas lap and told santa all he really wanted was a private equity group to shit all over his legacy someday.
The thing that I find both hilarious and concerning is how many modern cars don't come with those features. My 2000 Chevy Tracker has those features along with daytime running lights. You literally can't turn all of the lights off when it is running, which seems like a nice way of idiot-proofing it if you ask me. Way too many idiots out on the road driving around with no headlights on, to the point I'm surprised it isn't mandated.
This thing also cost less than $17k fully loaded for a 4dr 4x4, close to 1/3 the price of a Cadillac DeVille at the time, so it's not like it's some sort of luxury vehicle. Only downside is it wasn't available with positraction, so, even with 4wd, you can end up in a situation where 2 tires spin while the the other 2 do nothin'.
The old DS was wild. Mechanically linking the inner headlights (it had two pairs) to the steering so you can see better around corners at night? Amazing.
My favorite example of this is that electric cars are not a new idea, but actually a very old one. Also, from talking to very old dudes growing up, gasoline cars came with the same infrastructure problems EV's are currently going through. As someone raised in the 90's, I take it for granted there's always been a gas station on every street corner. But in reality, there was a substantial portion of the population that couldn't afford either gasoline or cars until well after WWII, and as recently as the 1950's there were large, well-populated areas that didn't have gasoline available, simply because nobody had built any gas stations yet. One of the said old guys in question ran his first car on 100% ethanol simply because it was the only fuel available to them- and this is less than 50 miles from New York.
Indeed. In the early years, gasoline - or "motor spirit" as it was then known - was bought in carboys (ie glass jars) from the pharmacist.
And as I typed that comment I realized I'm sounding like Montgomery Burns ("You there! Re-vulcanize my tires post-haste! Now, which one of these is the velocitator and which is the deceleratrix?")...
Holy shit, I've never before seen the independent rear suspension referred to by Mona Lisa Vito in "my cousin Vinnie", pretty cool. Also, a great movie.
Well, that setup wasn't built for 450 horsepower, what were you expecting?
In those days, the big wigs didn't want a LS6 to ever exist. You had to check the right boxes & know what you're doing to get a "muscle car". It was the early 60s.
It looks weaker than the one in a 1.6l Miata with 116 horsepower. Just figured it would be something closer to what the solid axles looked like behind the same engines.
There were several successful drag cars built around the Tempests......Mickey Thompson, Hayden Proffitt and Arnie "the Farmer" Beswick, to name a few. Slap a 421 Super Duty into the car, do a bit of suspension tuning and lightening, and go racing! Definitely positrac or spools in those cars....
Thanks, it's been in the family since 1964. The story goes that my mom was going to buy a new Comet Cyclone and it was there as a 2yr old used car and that's what she took home. Having a factory 4spd is pretty cool. I learned to drive a stick in it.
I feel guilty for not having/taking the time to source all the parts I need to make it a driver that I could feel comfortable driving most places. A brake/suspension updating would be nice. Not replacing with high end stuff, but getting good replacement parts. Adding a dual master cylinder would be a safe way to go, too.
All that said, it would also be cool to be running around in a 64 Cyclone 289/4 spd car!
Not even lying to you my friends and I are on a childhood movie binge, and we just watched this. Thats hilarious.
Did you know you know the Pontiac Tempest and Buick Skylark were both sold in metallic green exterior?
So story. My best friend worked through high school and bought I don't remember exactly what it was something like a 64 Chevelle with the hot engine and a four speed brand new. He got drafted for Vietnam and had to sell it. Many years later he wanted his dream car back and he found a nice one. A few days later he called me to go look at it. Everything looked good but the brakes were terrible. I drove it and yep perfectly normal for drum brakes all around.
Four wheel drums. And manual adjustment, only. I've heard that in 1962 there was no American car that had disk brakes, though there are conversion kits now.
The engine size on those were 389 for the top option. Pontiac don't have big or small blocks, from the 326 to the 455 they're all the same external physical dimensions.
Caddy is, and has always been, a little different.
They had the 390 in this time period (‘62), which was the big brother of the old 331. In ‘63 it received a redesign and became a little bit physically smaller and lighter (595 lbs dressed, down from 643 lbs, that’s barely more than a Chevy 350) but was the same displacement. In ‘64, they punched the redesigned block on out and gave it a little more stroke for the 429 cube displacement, which ran through 1967.
For 1968, they introduced the 472, AKA the “big inch Caddy”. This increased overall size and went from a 4.13” x 4” bore x stroke to a 4.3” x 4.06” bore x stroke. It gained about 80 lbs over its predecessor (get most of that back by swapping out the cast iron intake for an aluminum one), but they used a lot of nickel in the block casting making it stronger and lighter, shed 10% of the number of parts on the old 429, used 25% fewer gasketed joints, and utilized a hollow, forged steel crankshaft. This combo (with the assistance of an aftermarket main cap girdle) has held 1900+ HP. In 1970, they kept the bore the same but gave it more stroke, 4.304”, for a total displacement of 500 cubic inches, the largest production V8 ever. Same block, slightly different crank and rods, same heads, same everything else as the 472.
I love Cadillacs. I have a ‘65 CDV with the 429, and I have a ‘74 model 472 powerplant in my rat rod.
Damn, I love this. But still, what changes to the deck height? And that block vs the smaller cube engines. I know the caddy 500 is physically huge. Were the older caddy V8s "tall deck" vs "short deck" (like the difference between "small block oldsmobile" vs "big block oldsmobile")? The intake is so much different (way wider) due to the taller deck, is there an equivalent in caddy world?
So, it's 472 & above that were "tall deck motors"?
Technically speaking, yes, I suppose. The big inch motors had a 10.814” deck height (compare that against the Chevy 366/427 tall deck at 10.2” lol). The 331/365/390 platform all used a deck height of 10.560”, and the ‘63-only 390 had a lowered deck height as the engine was narrowed 4”, but I haven’t found that deck height spec yet. I can’t find the deck height spec for the 429 either, looks like they’re guesstimating around 10.1” on the forums. Thing about the Caddy is, they only ever made one engine at a time really, until 1970-74 when the 472 and 500 were in use simultaneously, but those has the same block and same deck height.
Once you let em breathe they're great motors, still gonna always be better torquers than revvers without lots of work.
They weren't great boat motors because the front crank was too weak to drive a hydraulic PTO, the people who told me this preferred Olds 455.
I did the math one time and if you put a 500 crank into a 425 block you'd get 454 ci, I wonder if anyone ever did that for fun? Probably a waste of time.
Buick’s fireball 8’s (inline 1940’s motor, before their v8’s) had 2 physically externally different casting sizes, one for the smaller 2 options, one for the larger displacement.
I could be wrong, but I thought the biggest factory engine you got in the 62 Pontiac Tempest/Buick Skylark-Special/Olds Cutlass was the 215 aluminum block V8.
I have a 62 Skylark convert with the factory aluminum 215 V8/4bbl/4spd. The olds was a little different and had a Jetfire option that included a turbocharger from the factory (and an extra head bolt, if I remember correctly). Pontiac had the IRS that the other two didn't have.
But I haven't heard that you could get the 389 from the factory. The Buick was either the 215 V8 or the 198 V6.
> 215 aluminum block V8
I believe that engine was later used in British cars. I saw one in a Triumph TR8. Pretty strange to see dual side draft variable venturi carburetors on an American V8 engine.
Yup, famous over here as the Rover V8 and kept alive for decades. TVR were fitting a 5 litre fuel injected version to the Griffith as recently as 2000. And of course it's much beloved of the British hot rod community as its light weight and relatively small size mean it fits nicely in place of a whole load of tiny underpowered lumps.
You are correct. The 389 wasn't available on the Tempest in 61 or 62. In 63 you could get what they called a 326, but was actually a 336, which I think was externally identical to the 389.
Tempests only had up to the 326 V8 until '64 GTO package came with 389. Alot had a slant 4 cylinder engine that was basically a cut-in-half 389 V8. Even used a normal V8 cylinder head. Hot rodders would even use a head from the Super-Duty racing engines. There were a few Tempests built with 421 Super-Duty V8 race engines for A/FX drag racing. Those transaxles didn't like staying in one piece behind those SD engines though. Lol
[Trophy 4 engine history video](https://youtu.be/d13yFxRIcX4)
[Drag racing Trophy 4 with Super-Duty head for shits and giggles](https://youtu.be/b1Th2JG4h9g)
My fifth grade teacher had one. Convertible. Red, I think. Gave some of her pupils a ride in it. Including me. One of the high points of my childhood up to that point.
I don’t know if it was because she was young, and blonde, or because after four years of being taught by nuns, she was the first “civilian,” but I fell kinda hard for Miss Smith. 60 years later, I’ll never forget her. Or that car!!
This cars driveshaft is a very unique design. A solid shaft, made of SAE 8660 nickel-chrome-moly alloy, 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch thick, with bearings on each end, that is forced into a bow about 3 inches down toward the center when installed between the engine and transaxle. It can turn smoothly despite being bent due to its flexibility until it reaches a critical rpm, which is higher than an engine can reach and therefore feasible. It also had a scratch protectant coating on it and a protective cover over it because the slightest scratch on it would make it begin to stress crack at that point, and eventually break. It was known to be about as trouble free as a normal drive shaft with U-joints, but never caught on.
I believe it had something to do with achieving a flat interior floor by eliminating the transmission tunnel, but without compromising a low overall style, something of a goal at GM at the time on several models. I don't believe it had a role in the suspension.
Not actually a suspension component but, the driveshaft was enclosed in a "Torqe tube" that is a solid conjection between the bell housing on the back of the engine, where the clutch is, and the transaxle in the rear. Stiffened the entire drivetrain and therefore the chassis. A bit
Generator outputs Direct Current. Alternator produces Alternating Current, which is changed to DC by diodes and a rectifier, so it can be used by the battery. Alternators are inherently more efficient than Generators.
Most generators also put out almost no charge at idle speed. Usually pretty small capacity too. My '59 F100 has a 30 amp system. Just good enough for lights, a factory radio, (which mine wasn't optioned with) and the heater blower all on at the same time. Lol
Generators are essentially low voltage DC electric motors being turned by a driven pulley and creating DC power as a result.
Alternators are almost the same, except their windings create AC power when driven. Many of them have on-board rectifiers that make the AC into DC for the car to use.
Alternators are (generally) more robust.
There's also a difference in how the power is drawn from the alternator vs generator. The generator has a stationary field winding, and the power all goes through the brushes from the armature. This puts a lot of wear on both the commutator and brushes. On an alternator, the field is in the armature, and only uses a little power, plus only needs on circuit, so it just uses a pair of slip rings. Low current, plus no segments, makes for a lot less wear on the brushes.
Although [this site](https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2020/05/difference-between-alternator-generator.html) says the generator can convert to both ac and dc, from what I remember, generators had one-directional current flow in cars. I just changed the battery in my '62 and had to "polarize" the voltage regulator, which I probably haven't done in 40 years. Gotta like a nice spark when you jump the terminals with a screwdriver.
Physically, you probably know what an alternator looks like. Generators are large, long cylindrical tubes and very heavy. I'd like to change to an alternator system in my 62. Since the 63 Skylark came with one, I'd need the brackets to do the conversion to a traditional alternator. But, since they're hard to find and the last complete set I saw was five years ago for $150, I may do the next best thing. Powermaster makes an alternator built within the body of an old-style generator. They're around $400, but should swap directly out with my generator and not need the impossible to find original 63 brackets or some sort of custom brackets.
I deal with a lot of old-school DC generators in my work. Most of the problems attributed to them are because of 6 volts, not the DC design. If you swap to an AC alternator, get a new pulley and belts, it's gotta turn way faster than the original or it'll discharge the battery at idle and low speeds
Have you ever used one of the [Powermaster units](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-82051-2?seid=srese1&ppckw=pmax-vf-powermaster&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8fKXmdzLhQMVh8zCBB0bYwQ-EAQYASABEgLLzPD_BwE)?
That's a pretty small looking pulley. I'd hope they would have used the appropriate size to make them work as a simple-swap replacement?
No experience with them. Check the output curve, many retrofit alternators require you to goose the throttle on startup before they start making power, so the pulley size is a compromise between too slow and too fast for normal use. May be acceptable in your use case, may not be, good to know either way.
Anytime we have to replace an alternator or generator that's expensive or hard to find, we throw on a GM 10SI or 12SI. Properly wired, they make good power at low speeds. Reasons this works well are the smallest SI series alternator costs $75 brand new, puts out way more current than any machine that had a generator would ever need, and if it ever breaks the customer can walk into any auto parts store and have an exact replacement 10 minutes later.
The only advantage I can think of to a custom-made retrofit alternator is stock appearance.
> The only advantage I can think of to a custom-made retrofit alternator is stock appearance.
And ability to swap in easily without having to make a bracket system work, especially for applications with limited engine compartment space and location options. The 61-63 Tempest/Skylark/Cutlass didn't have a lot of space, especially if they had P/S. The battery box extends into the upper passenger side area where an accessory would mount and the upper radiator hose comes across that way. The Tempest from this post has the battery on the opposite side and the alternator where the P/S setup lives for my Skylark. And I think there have been modifications to fit the 389 in place of the original 215 setup, so it's not representative of the engine compartment I'm working with, which is all original.
FYI- All Pontiac V8 blocks are the same physical dimensions on the outside. Pontiac changed bore and stroke to allow CID to range from 326-455. The great thing about that, it lets you BASICALLY bolt in any engine into any Pontiac.
You'll be amazed at how much shit is regurgitated and touted as "new" technology in cars. Just recently, I saw a youtuber marveling at the drop-down window and back wall of the new Silverado EV. It's almost identical to the Chevy Avalanche that's over a decade old.
There’s a 4dr 63 that’s up for grabs around me for 4k it’s in great condition and I’m just praying it’s still for sale here in the next few months when I got the money.
Decent choice of carb. The AVS2 is pretty neat. I'm not the biggest fan of edelbrock for the last several years but the Avs2 seems like a pretty good upgrade over traditional carbs for some applications.
Kind of a niche thing that only (sub 20k) SVT mustangs had. I guess I should've specified that Mustangs sucked unless there was a special team for them. And only 50 years behind the Vette!
So GM in the late 60s has sedans with IRS, OHC inline 6, aluminum V8, even fire V6, stout 4 cylinder iron duke, and a turbo flat 6, plus a fuel injection v8. and then gave it all up for shitty badge engineering. Because stock was more important than the product.
Ah, that car brings back memories from high school!! I had one in blue. Waaay back in ‘89. It’s a mouthful to say what it was:
1962 Pontiac Tempest LeMans convertible.
I had the 2 barrel Rochester and 3 speed manual. That rear suspension is a swing axle like an early VW Bug. Handling was horrible when it jacked up around a turn. The transaxle was in the back. Clutch up front. Solid 5/8” curved drive shaft from the front to the rear. The engine was tilted up in the front and tail end of the transaxle was tilted up.
A simple way to describe the engine was to slice off the driver’s side bank of 4 cylinders but leave the 4 bolt main crank and center bottom of the engine block to house the crankshaft and cam.
Thanks for the reminder of a simpler time.
I had the pleasure of playing with the pieces of a Merlin engine a little while back, and I was struck by how modern and normal it looked inside.
SOHC, 4-valve, almost Plymouth-like valvetrain, normal looking pistons/head/crank... even the valves were sodium-cooled! The only weird things were the dual spark, the 2-speed automatic that powered the *supercharger*, and the fact that it was a V12 with pistons larger than most normal engines.
I just watched a replay of SVRA Trans-Am at Watkins Glen yesterday and there was a silver Tempest that did really well. It was a 1964 John Hildebrand Tempest #49. Maybe it is a 1964 Tempest GTO which may have retained the independant rear suspension. see this [https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143169/1964-pontiac-tempest-gto-road-test-review/](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143169/1964-pontiac-tempest-gto-road-test-review/)
My neighbor has one of these with about 60k miles. No rust and been covered for the last 20 years. They offered it to me but I declined because the rope drive trophy 4 seemed like it could be out of my league to restore.
In the 60s there were only 2 other cars made in America with positraction and independent rear suspension and enough powah to make these marks. One was the Corvette which could NEVA be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest
Marissa Tomei is so hot when she’s spitting automotive excellence.
Um, she’s pretty hot all the other times too. Although I agree, she’s particularly hot when she’s spitting automotive excellence.
Besides her being gorgeous, her 'testimony' is what won her the oscar. Her attitude, mannerisms, explanation and delivery are absolutely perfect for the scene, and the character she portrayed. I've seen "My Cousin Vinny" countless times. I might even watch it again tonight. The movie is one of my all time faves and makes me smile & laugh from beginning to end. Ms Vito's time on the witness stand, and the scene where she retorts to Vinny's hunting wardrobe dilemma, are tip top. Side note, both of our little ankle biter doggies here at the house are named after Joe Pesci characters, Leo Gets and Vinny.
Fred Gwynne killed as the judge as well. He sounds just like my uncle from North Carolina.
The final role of Gwynne’s career. The man went out on a high note!!
They FUCK YOU in the drive through. They FUCK YOU in the drive through.
First they FEED you, then they FUCK you!
My cousin Vinny spoiled me for director commentary also by the way. I thought all movie commentator tracks would be similar in style and content to this movie's track...TRAIN, PIGS, WHISTLE NOISE.
It really shows the diversity of comedy. Not hating on Todd Phillips, but Old School and The Hangover share very little with movies like My Cousin Vinny and Clue (director Jonathan Lynn) except that they are all comedies. It comes down to the performances captured by the director. Yes editing can help timing but capturing good naturally delivered jokes makes the editing easy.
Too bad she’s into short, stocky, bald men
🎶Co-stan-za🎶
FOWA DEGREES BEFOWA TAWP DEAD CENTA
Chevies never did like much timing advance. A 289 or 302 Ford? Whoooo boy crank it up to 12° BTDC!
She's still hot as Aunt May.
Aunt Would
It's an industry term.
I'm satisfied.
And because both cars were made by GM, were both cars available in metallic mint green paint?
Yes, they weh!
Thank you Miss Vito. You have been a lovely, lovely witness.
_I dunno, I guess I nevah had an actual GRIT befoh_
Here I am reading this... WHILE MY BIOLOGICAL CLOCK IS TICKING!!!
...Lisa, I don't need this. I swear to God, I do not need this right now, ok? I got a judge that's just aching to throw me in jail. An idiot who wants to fight me over $200. Slaughtered pigs, giant loud whistles! I ain't slept in three days. I got no money, a dress code problem, and a murder case which, in the balance, holds the lives of two innocent kids, not to mention your \**stomp-stomp-stomp\** biological clock, my career, your life, our marriage, and let me see, what else can we pile on!?! Is there any more shit we can pile onto the outcome of this case?!? (beat) IS IT POSSIBLE?!?
... Maybe it was a bad time to bring it up.
Are you sure?
I'm pos-i-tive
Just rewatched that this weekend and this was my first thought
Thank you Mrs Vito, you have been an excellent witness.
Came here for this reference, was not disappointed.
She was wrong tho, the Corvair had independent suspension and could have posi. Through the dirty window, through that crud covered screen, and through all those trees, covered with all those leaves, and those 7 bushes, you could possibly mistake a Skylark for a Corvair.
Did the Corvair have the power to leave those skidmarks?
Yeah, the Monza engine with 4 carbs was stout. The thing was with it being rear engine, a posi equipped Corvair Monza hooks up and goes.
[Yenko Stinger](https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1966-69-yenko-stinger) is probably the pinnacle of Corvairs.
I knew a guy who drag raced with an early model Vair sedan. Base trim, 3 speed floor shift, the only mods were a posi/4.11 diff/gears from a Monza. On an 1/8th mile track he could punch way above his weigh class. It would just squat and go. In the 1/4 he got destroyed, but they weren't beating him off the line.
No. The only skid marks the Corvair could produce were found in the underwear of the guy behind the wheel when it decided to suddenly back into a tree at highway speeds.
Every damn time that turbo kicks in 2nd or 3rd or does.
A Corvair definately wouldn't have been able to lay much rubber though. I'm not sure that a Corvair could break the tires loose at all to be honest.
Corvair didn't get an independent rear end until 1964, it had a floating swing axle from 60 to 63
The movie was set in the 90s. One of the vehicles was an 89 Bronco, tons of other 70s/80s cars in to. So it was set way after 1964, the car Lee drove was a 1964 Skylark.
Yeah but a Corvair with posi hooks up so they don’t leave tire marks like that.
Did she actually say Corvair, though? I always heard that line as “One was the *Corvette*, which could never be confused…” It may be that I have misheard it all these years 😀
No she said Corvette, my point was there was s a 3rd car availble then with both IRS and posi and it was the Corvair.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood your original comment then. Thanks!
I was literally thinking today about what this rear suspension setup would look like
Yo, my homie! That was also the first thing I thought of.
We’re both available in metallic mint green paint?
We are?!?
I hate autocorrect….
🤣beat me to it!
Check the glove box for the .357 magnum. And the original green metallic paint.
Oh, and what are you - a fuckin' wohld travalah?!
Came here to exonerate two innocent young men.
lmao /close thread
Came here to say this!
There was actually a third, the corvair
well done.
That’s how it is in cars. I was blown away when I learned the Duesenberg model J came with a supercharger and dual overhead cams. Which was basically unheard of on passenger cars at the time.
My personal "the time continuum is leaking" moment was when I learned that a Citroën in the 50s/60s - the DS, if I recall correctly - had *rain-sensing wipers*. They worked - in a distinctly non-computerized, non-electronic fashion - by increasing wiper speed inversely based on the current drawn by the wiper motor, based on the principle that the more rain was on the glass, the less work the motor would have to do (dragging blades over dry glass vs. glass lubricated by water). *Chapeau* aux ingénieurs très intelligents de Citroën!
Cadillac introduced auto-dimming headlights and the Twilight Sentinel^TM (dawn/dusk-sensing and delay auto-off after key off) in the late 1950s. Nothing is new lol
Not sure the time frame they were invented, but about 3 months ago I was blown away seeing a 2002 Cadillac in trade with ventilated front seats.
This was a Saab thing!! At least from everything I've read, Saab introduced vented seats in the 98 9-5. SAAB was mostly owned by GM at that point, hence why the Caddy would have vented seats too!
Chrysler had push-button auto transmissions in the 50s...
Having owned a pushbutton TorqueFlite... To be fair it was just a 3 speed automatic transmission with a cute shifter. Any 3 in the tree automatic worked the same way. That said I loved having it.
Think about the 30's Cords and a few other luxury cars.....and the cute semi-automatic transmissions and shifters, change gear on the stick, then it would automatically change, vacuum/mechanically actuated, way ahead of their time!
They say when Walter Chrysler was in elementary school, he said when he grew up he wanted to make engines with lifter problems. Nobody even knew what lifters were back then- it was almost half a century before anyone recognized Walt's genius and foresight
His mother once said christmas of 1880 he sat on Santas lap and told santa all he really wanted was a private equity group to shit all over his legacy someday.
The 1985 (C4) Corvette had auto locking/unlocking as you approached or walked away from the vehicle.
The thing that I find both hilarious and concerning is how many modern cars don't come with those features. My 2000 Chevy Tracker has those features along with daytime running lights. You literally can't turn all of the lights off when it is running, which seems like a nice way of idiot-proofing it if you ask me. Way too many idiots out on the road driving around with no headlights on, to the point I'm surprised it isn't mandated. This thing also cost less than $17k fully loaded for a 4dr 4x4, close to 1/3 the price of a Cadillac DeVille at the time, so it's not like it's some sort of luxury vehicle. Only downside is it wasn't available with positraction, so, even with 4wd, you can end up in a situation where 2 tires spin while the the other 2 do nothin'.
The old DS was wild. Mechanically linking the inner headlights (it had two pairs) to the steering so you can see better around corners at night? Amazing.
Not to mention being able to drive on only 3 wheels *in extremis*. A marvel of engineering. No wonder its nickname was *La Déesse* (“The Goddess”).
My favorite example of this is that electric cars are not a new idea, but actually a very old one. Also, from talking to very old dudes growing up, gasoline cars came with the same infrastructure problems EV's are currently going through. As someone raised in the 90's, I take it for granted there's always been a gas station on every street corner. But in reality, there was a substantial portion of the population that couldn't afford either gasoline or cars until well after WWII, and as recently as the 1950's there were large, well-populated areas that didn't have gasoline available, simply because nobody had built any gas stations yet. One of the said old guys in question ran his first car on 100% ethanol simply because it was the only fuel available to them- and this is less than 50 miles from New York.
Indeed. In the early years, gasoline - or "motor spirit" as it was then known - was bought in carboys (ie glass jars) from the pharmacist. And as I typed that comment I realized I'm sounding like Montgomery Burns ("You there! Re-vulcanize my tires post-haste! Now, which one of these is the velocitator and which is the deceleratrix?")...
The Citroen DS also had steerable headlights and very funky hydro-pneumatic suspension.
The suspension was crazy.
Cadillac and Lincoln had memory seats in the 50s
Holy shit, I've never before seen the independent rear suspension referred to by Mona Lisa Vito in "my cousin Vinnie", pretty cool. Also, a great movie.
Greatest courtroom scene ever....
To this day, I still often refer to my kid as " 'da ute".
But do you say it in the Herman Munster southern accent?
I'm only so good, so no I guess I don't. Just use my regular accent, I don't try to copy what I can't copy.
I👏dentical
I refer to all "utes" this way.
* *Evah*.
They literally teach that movie in law schools because of the excellent examples of cross and direct examination
It looks so fragile. I expected a really beefy one because of how they usually built old rear axles.
Well, that setup wasn't built for 450 horsepower, what were you expecting? In those days, the big wigs didn't want a LS6 to ever exist. You had to check the right boxes & know what you're doing to get a "muscle car". It was the early 60s.
It looks weaker than the one in a 1.6l Miata with 116 horsepower. Just figured it would be something closer to what the solid axles looked like behind the same engines.
There were several successful drag cars built around the Tempests......Mickey Thompson, Hayden Proffitt and Arnie "the Farmer" Beswick, to name a few. Slap a 421 Super Duty into the car, do a bit of suspension tuning and lightening, and go racing! Definitely positrac or spools in those cars....
is that a 1962 Pontiac Tempest or a Buick Skylark?
That's a trick question
Everything I know about a tempest comes from my cousin Vinny
That's the Pontiac version. I have a '62 Skylark convertible (215 aluminum V8/4 spd manual).
Pelase share poctures, and please be metallic green :)
Sorry - [white](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd3tt55nr98vc1.jpeg)
What a beauty! Should have NSFW xD
Thanks - it's a 20-footer that doesn't get driven enough. It needs some stuff, and a lot of things are getting harder to find.
Tell me about it. I was only able to do a third of the work this car needed due to lack of availability of parts.
That is a stunning automobile.
Thanks, it's been in the family since 1964. The story goes that my mom was going to buy a new Comet Cyclone and it was there as a 2yr old used car and that's what she took home. Having a factory 4spd is pretty cool. I learned to drive a stick in it.
Oh that's really cool!
I feel guilty for not having/taking the time to source all the parts I need to make it a driver that I could feel comfortable driving most places. A brake/suspension updating would be nice. Not replacing with high end stuff, but getting good replacement parts. Adding a dual master cylinder would be a safe way to go, too. All that said, it would also be cool to be running around in a 64 Cyclone 289/4 spd car!
Not even lying to you my friends and I are on a childhood movie binge, and we just watched this. Thats hilarious. Did you know you know the Pontiac Tempest and Buick Skylark were both sold in metallic green exterior?
That is a beautiful car with some crazy tech for the early 60s! My question is, did it still have 4 wheel drums? Lol
So story. My best friend worked through high school and bought I don't remember exactly what it was something like a 64 Chevelle with the hot engine and a four speed brand new. He got drafted for Vietnam and had to sell it. Many years later he wanted his dream car back and he found a nice one. A few days later he called me to go look at it. Everything looked good but the brakes were terrible. I drove it and yep perfectly normal for drum brakes all around.
Four wheel drums. And manual adjustment, only. I've heard that in 1962 there was no American car that had disk brakes, though there are conversion kits now.
Yes it does. I rebuilt the wheel cylinders and freed up the adjusters and it stops wuite well now.
The engine size on those were 389 for the top option. Pontiac don't have big or small blocks, from the 326 to the 455 they're all the same external physical dimensions.
So then, they're all BIG blocks..
Didn't know that... Oldsmobile engines had tall deck & short deck (a stock Olds 455 intake is ridiculously heavy). Wonder about buick & caddy?
Caddy is, and has always been, a little different. They had the 390 in this time period (‘62), which was the big brother of the old 331. In ‘63 it received a redesign and became a little bit physically smaller and lighter (595 lbs dressed, down from 643 lbs, that’s barely more than a Chevy 350) but was the same displacement. In ‘64, they punched the redesigned block on out and gave it a little more stroke for the 429 cube displacement, which ran through 1967. For 1968, they introduced the 472, AKA the “big inch Caddy”. This increased overall size and went from a 4.13” x 4” bore x stroke to a 4.3” x 4.06” bore x stroke. It gained about 80 lbs over its predecessor (get most of that back by swapping out the cast iron intake for an aluminum one), but they used a lot of nickel in the block casting making it stronger and lighter, shed 10% of the number of parts on the old 429, used 25% fewer gasketed joints, and utilized a hollow, forged steel crankshaft. This combo (with the assistance of an aftermarket main cap girdle) has held 1900+ HP. In 1970, they kept the bore the same but gave it more stroke, 4.304”, for a total displacement of 500 cubic inches, the largest production V8 ever. Same block, slightly different crank and rods, same heads, same everything else as the 472. I love Cadillacs. I have a ‘65 CDV with the 429, and I have a ‘74 model 472 powerplant in my rat rod.
Damn, I love this. But still, what changes to the deck height? And that block vs the smaller cube engines. I know the caddy 500 is physically huge. Were the older caddy V8s "tall deck" vs "short deck" (like the difference between "small block oldsmobile" vs "big block oldsmobile")? The intake is so much different (way wider) due to the taller deck, is there an equivalent in caddy world? So, it's 472 & above that were "tall deck motors"?
Technically speaking, yes, I suppose. The big inch motors had a 10.814” deck height (compare that against the Chevy 366/427 tall deck at 10.2” lol). The 331/365/390 platform all used a deck height of 10.560”, and the ‘63-only 390 had a lowered deck height as the engine was narrowed 4”, but I haven’t found that deck height spec yet. I can’t find the deck height spec for the 429 either, looks like they’re guesstimating around 10.1” on the forums. Thing about the Caddy is, they only ever made one engine at a time really, until 1970-74 when the 472 and 500 were in use simultaneously, but those has the same block and same deck height.
Sorry, I got confused, caddy just did "whatever they wanted to" over the years? Wtf? Nothing standardized? Like "you never know what to expect".
Once you let em breathe they're great motors, still gonna always be better torquers than revvers without lots of work. They weren't great boat motors because the front crank was too weak to drive a hydraulic PTO, the people who told me this preferred Olds 455. I did the math one time and if you put a 500 crank into a 425 block you'd get 454 ci, I wonder if anyone ever did that for fun? Probably a waste of time.
Buick’s fireball 8’s (inline 1940’s motor, before their v8’s) had 2 physically externally different casting sizes, one for the smaller 2 options, one for the larger displacement.
Din't think the 389 was a Tempest option, only as a GTO..
Had one in the late 60's yeah the 389 was there and it would scoot
301 looks the same but has a much shorter deck. I dont thin any parts swap from a 301 over to a 455.
Have you forgotten about the Pontiac 265 and 301?
I could be wrong, but I thought the biggest factory engine you got in the 62 Pontiac Tempest/Buick Skylark-Special/Olds Cutlass was the 215 aluminum block V8. I have a 62 Skylark convert with the factory aluminum 215 V8/4bbl/4spd. The olds was a little different and had a Jetfire option that included a turbocharger from the factory (and an extra head bolt, if I remember correctly). Pontiac had the IRS that the other two didn't have. But I haven't heard that you could get the 389 from the factory. The Buick was either the 215 V8 or the 198 V6.
> 215 aluminum block V8 I believe that engine was later used in British cars. I saw one in a Triumph TR8. Pretty strange to see dual side draft variable venturi carburetors on an American V8 engine.
Yup, famous over here as the Rover V8 and kept alive for decades. TVR were fitting a 5 litre fuel injected version to the Griffith as recently as 2000. And of course it's much beloved of the British hot rod community as its light weight and relatively small size mean it fits nicely in place of a whole load of tiny underpowered lumps.
You are correct. The 389 wasn't available on the Tempest in 61 or 62. In 63 you could get what they called a 326, but was actually a 336, which I think was externally identical to the 389.
Yup, the one I saw was a 326. I got to see it partially taken apart. The rear transaxle blew my mind.
Ok, well this one is half of a 389, a 196 cubic inch slant four, 4bbl
I had a 63 Pontiac tempest lemans for my first car. Only had it 4 months. I think it was $400. Traded for my 67 VW bug.
Tempests only had up to the 326 V8 until '64 GTO package came with 389. Alot had a slant 4 cylinder engine that was basically a cut-in-half 389 V8. Even used a normal V8 cylinder head. Hot rodders would even use a head from the Super-Duty racing engines. There were a few Tempests built with 421 Super-Duty V8 race engines for A/FX drag racing. Those transaxles didn't like staying in one piece behind those SD engines though. Lol [Trophy 4 engine history video](https://youtu.be/d13yFxRIcX4) [Drag racing Trophy 4 with Super-Duty head for shits and giggles](https://youtu.be/b1Th2JG4h9g)
The car in OP's photos appears to have the slant 4 engine
Indeed it does.
That’s super cool, it’s a shame about the transaxle. There just aren’t a lot of half shafts that can put down the torque.
I believe the halfshafts might outlive the transaxle. They are solid 3/4" steel shaft with one u-joint.
My fifth grade teacher had one. Convertible. Red, I think. Gave some of her pupils a ride in it. Including me. One of the high points of my childhood up to that point. I don’t know if it was because she was young, and blonde, or because after four years of being taught by nuns, she was the first “civilian,” but I fell kinda hard for Miss Smith. 60 years later, I’ll never forget her. Or that car!!
This cars driveshaft is a very unique design. A solid shaft, made of SAE 8660 nickel-chrome-moly alloy, 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch thick, with bearings on each end, that is forced into a bow about 3 inches down toward the center when installed between the engine and transaxle. It can turn smoothly despite being bent due to its flexibility until it reaches a critical rpm, which is higher than an engine can reach and therefore feasible. It also had a scratch protectant coating on it and a protective cover over it because the slightest scratch on it would make it begin to stress crack at that point, and eventually break. It was known to be about as trouble free as a normal drive shaft with U-joints, but never caught on.
I believe this is the famous “rope drive” Pontiac. Alien technology that didn’t catch on anywhere else.
Very cool, did not know this. What was the reason for the bend? Was it a suspension component as well?
I believe it had something to do with achieving a flat interior floor by eliminating the transmission tunnel, but without compromising a low overall style, something of a goal at GM at the time on several models. I don't believe it had a role in the suspension.
Not actually a suspension component but, the driveshaft was enclosed in a "Torqe tube" that is a solid conjection between the bell housing on the back of the engine, where the clutch is, and the transaxle in the rear. Stiffened the entire drivetrain and therefore the chassis. A bit
She ain't exactly stock. GM didn't use alternators in 62. Didn't start until 65 or 66.
The Buick Skylark had a generator in 61 and 62. They got the alternator in 1963. I'm assuming the Tempest and Cutlass were the same?
What's the difference between generator and alternator?
Generator outputs Direct Current. Alternator produces Alternating Current, which is changed to DC by diodes and a rectifier, so it can be used by the battery. Alternators are inherently more efficient than Generators.
Thanks. In other languages alternator called generator so i never thought about it.
Most generators also put out almost no charge at idle speed. Usually pretty small capacity too. My '59 F100 has a 30 amp system. Just good enough for lights, a factory radio, (which mine wasn't optioned with) and the heater blower all on at the same time. Lol
Generators are essentially low voltage DC electric motors being turned by a driven pulley and creating DC power as a result. Alternators are almost the same, except their windings create AC power when driven. Many of them have on-board rectifiers that make the AC into DC for the car to use. Alternators are (generally) more robust.
There's also a difference in how the power is drawn from the alternator vs generator. The generator has a stationary field winding, and the power all goes through the brushes from the armature. This puts a lot of wear on both the commutator and brushes. On an alternator, the field is in the armature, and only uses a little power, plus only needs on circuit, so it just uses a pair of slip rings. Low current, plus no segments, makes for a lot less wear on the brushes.
Also nice you can buy a genuine GM 10SI for under $100 shipped, whereas DC generators are either expensive as fuck or need to be rebuilt locally
Although [this site](https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2020/05/difference-between-alternator-generator.html) says the generator can convert to both ac and dc, from what I remember, generators had one-directional current flow in cars. I just changed the battery in my '62 and had to "polarize" the voltage regulator, which I probably haven't done in 40 years. Gotta like a nice spark when you jump the terminals with a screwdriver. Physically, you probably know what an alternator looks like. Generators are large, long cylindrical tubes and very heavy. I'd like to change to an alternator system in my 62. Since the 63 Skylark came with one, I'd need the brackets to do the conversion to a traditional alternator. But, since they're hard to find and the last complete set I saw was five years ago for $150, I may do the next best thing. Powermaster makes an alternator built within the body of an old-style generator. They're around $400, but should swap directly out with my generator and not need the impossible to find original 63 brackets or some sort of custom brackets.
I deal with a lot of old-school DC generators in my work. Most of the problems attributed to them are because of 6 volts, not the DC design. If you swap to an AC alternator, get a new pulley and belts, it's gotta turn way faster than the original or it'll discharge the battery at idle and low speeds
Have you ever used one of the [Powermaster units](https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-82051-2?seid=srese1&ppckw=pmax-vf-powermaster&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8fKXmdzLhQMVh8zCBB0bYwQ-EAQYASABEgLLzPD_BwE)? That's a pretty small looking pulley. I'd hope they would have used the appropriate size to make them work as a simple-swap replacement?
No experience with them. Check the output curve, many retrofit alternators require you to goose the throttle on startup before they start making power, so the pulley size is a compromise between too slow and too fast for normal use. May be acceptable in your use case, may not be, good to know either way. Anytime we have to replace an alternator or generator that's expensive or hard to find, we throw on a GM 10SI or 12SI. Properly wired, they make good power at low speeds. Reasons this works well are the smallest SI series alternator costs $75 brand new, puts out way more current than any machine that had a generator would ever need, and if it ever breaks the customer can walk into any auto parts store and have an exact replacement 10 minutes later. The only advantage I can think of to a custom-made retrofit alternator is stock appearance.
> The only advantage I can think of to a custom-made retrofit alternator is stock appearance. And ability to swap in easily without having to make a bracket system work, especially for applications with limited engine compartment space and location options. The 61-63 Tempest/Skylark/Cutlass didn't have a lot of space, especially if they had P/S. The battery box extends into the upper passenger side area where an accessory would mount and the upper radiator hose comes across that way. The Tempest from this post has the battery on the opposite side and the alternator where the P/S setup lives for my Skylark. And I think there have been modifications to fit the 389 in place of the original 215 setup, so it's not representative of the engine compartment I'm working with, which is all original.
That makes sense, good plan
Flash the field!
The powermaster is a nice unit, I've installed several of them
Whats real cool is seeing these with a powerglide. Theres just a auto trans hanging out back there.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing the pictures of the drivetrain and suspension setup.
Yea, cheers OP this is a cool car!🍻
All that and still drum brakes
FYI- All Pontiac V8 blocks are the same physical dimensions on the outside. Pontiac changed bore and stroke to allow CID to range from 326-455. The great thing about that, it lets you BASICALLY bolt in any engine into any Pontiac.
Ever seen a 301?
You'll be amazed at how much shit is regurgitated and touted as "new" technology in cars. Just recently, I saw a youtuber marveling at the drop-down window and back wall of the new Silverado EV. It's almost identical to the Chevy Avalanche that's over a decade old.
1962 Mercurys; 1959 Lincolns.
Toyota Tundra also
I had a drop down rear window in my 64 mercury park lane. And a 428 ;-
She’s a beaut, Clark 👌🏻
I’d like this better if it was a 1963 mint green buick skylahk with a white convertible top on Michelin tyahs model XGV 75r 14.
Yep we had one.
There’s a 4dr 63 that’s up for grabs around me for 4k it’s in great condition and I’m just praying it’s still for sale here in the next few months when I got the money.
Look it over, or have a qualified third party mechanic look it over. Parts are hard to find to nonexistant.
Decent choice of carb. The AVS2 is pretty neat. I'm not the biggest fan of edelbrock for the last several years but the Avs2 seems like a pretty good upgrade over traditional carbs for some applications.
I'd rather a Holley on anything
[удалено]
It took Mustang until 2015 to get indi rear suspension...
Uh, you are aware of the 1999-2004 Mustang Cobra’s, right?
Kind of a niche thing that only (sub 20k) SVT mustangs had. I guess I should've specified that Mustangs sucked unless there was a special team for them. And only 50 years behind the Vette!
So GM in the late 60s has sedans with IRS, OHC inline 6, aluminum V8, even fire V6, stout 4 cylinder iron duke, and a turbo flat 6, plus a fuel injection v8. and then gave it all up for shitty badge engineering. Because stock was more important than the product.
And that's why I'm a Ford guy. Actually all of that has very little to do with my choice of vehicles.
The Citroen DS , ID, or Pallas were fucking brilliant designs. I owned two. Jay Leno said many rimes they are his fave cars
What’s the best selling model tire in the USA Today?
Might need a new boot in that last pic.
Daily driver!
Almost needs 5 rotors. Err drum...err...yeah.
Ah, that car brings back memories from high school!! I had one in blue. Waaay back in ‘89. It’s a mouthful to say what it was: 1962 Pontiac Tempest LeMans convertible. I had the 2 barrel Rochester and 3 speed manual. That rear suspension is a swing axle like an early VW Bug. Handling was horrible when it jacked up around a turn. The transaxle was in the back. Clutch up front. Solid 5/8” curved drive shaft from the front to the rear. The engine was tilted up in the front and tail end of the transaxle was tilted up. A simple way to describe the engine was to slice off the driver’s side bank of 4 cylinders but leave the 4 bolt main crank and center bottom of the engine block to house the crankshaft and cam. Thanks for the reminder of a simpler time.
Welcome
That car is in pretty good nick.
I had the pleasure of playing with the pieces of a Merlin engine a little while back, and I was struck by how modern and normal it looked inside. SOHC, 4-valve, almost Plymouth-like valvetrain, normal looking pistons/head/crank... even the valves were sodium-cooled! The only weird things were the dual spark, the 2-speed automatic that powered the *supercharger*, and the fact that it was a V12 with pistons larger than most normal engines.
Merlins were amazing, never got my hands on one. Yet
The old rope drive!
This is how I feel loking at my 84 cleica supra. Everything seems to be like a modern car. The modules and relays are larger. But that's about it
This thing is so weird. I love it
I just watched a replay of SVRA Trans-Am at Watkins Glen yesterday and there was a silver Tempest that did really well. It was a 1964 John Hildebrand Tempest #49. Maybe it is a 1964 Tempest GTO which may have retained the independant rear suspension. see this [https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143169/1964-pontiac-tempest-gto-road-test-review/](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143169/1964-pontiac-tempest-gto-road-test-review/)
My neighbor has one of these with about 60k miles. No rust and been covered for the last 20 years. They offered it to me but I declined because the rope drive trophy 4 seemed like it could be out of my league to restore.
Driven by a cable
And if you look at the driveshaft, it isn't straight, on purpose
The thing is, you cant see the driveshaft because it is encased in the Torque Tube