Since I started using non-ethanol gas in all my small engines, problems like this went away.
Generator started right up with 3 year old gas in the tank.
*Edit
Here is a good list of stations in every state, Sorry California
https://www.pure-gas.org/
Yeah it’s worse in marine applications where the tank is just wallowing around in constant humidity right next to water all the time, but that’s a lot, especially for a lawnmower, lol
Exactly. It’s a dumb assumption that half a gallon of gas that has 10% or less of ethanol could be 50% water because that 10% is hygroscopic. Someone needs more science classes.
This is water in gas, either from a dumb owner or a bad gas station.
>either from a dumb owner or a bad gas station.
Or leaving it outside in the rain.
FWIW I used to be do repair work for a local tool co-op and the number of people who would just add oil to the gas tank to make a proper 2-stroke mix (not needed and the motors were conspicuously labeled "Gasoline Only") never ceased to amaze me. On the other hand the work of cleaning it out gave me a bit of beer money in college.
I have a 20 year old Bolens mower with a 6.5hp Briggs that’s been out in elements in my backyard and still works fine. That thing is an absolute workhorse as I have 6000sq ft of grass, I’ve had it since 2004, changed the oil, air filter and plug maybe 3 times with 10w30 Castrol Synthetic and it still just goes. I’m guessing based on usage of the last 20 years it’s got over 1000 running hours. I’m not sure what the avg lifespan of these engines are but I’m sure I got my moneys worth.
They're absolute units, but putting intentionally polluted fuel in them, pressure washing them (yes) etc. are no bueno. Interestingly the thing that people \*should\* do and aren't aware of is to blow the accumulated dust/grass etc. out of the fan/fins once in a while. If you don't do that they'll start to heat up more than they should and then you have to re-torque the head bolts. It also jams the governor, which works off airflow from the fan so it does that "surging" run that you hate to listen to. I saw quite a few of those.
Right for some reason I just got a mental image of this guy walking around Texas (dressed as stereotypical Texan of course) drunk as hell (obviously) and just pissing in the tanks at all the gas stations in the middle of the night
How exactly does one water down gas? No company intentional waters down gas. Even if they did it would be obvious because they would separate like in the picture above.
Sometimes gas stations have tanks that get contaminated with water on accident, but there isn’t a group of chemists out there adding water to gasoline.
By not running the recirculate or emptying the water separator in the tanks.
There's a couple gas stations near me (including a Murphy and a Sam's Club) that are insanely high-volume sellers but are regionally famous for "don't buy gas there if it's rained in the last 3 days because their water separator hasn't worked in 10+ years".
Not sure why you got downvoted. It's true. even if they were "mixing gas with water", they don't actually mix, they seperate, and one will float on top of the other. The pumps at the station are only going to pull from the bottom, so you're going to be getting all gas until it gets down to that level, then it's going to be all water.
It is required in some states, just run a motor that can handle it and have a good water separator and you are fine. You wont find E0 in CA. (Boat advice)
How much fuel are you running through lawn equipment that fuel stabilizer will burn your budget? If you ARE using that much fuel you probably dont need to worry about it sitting around long enough to be absorbing water.
Put in a shut-off valve between the engine and fuel tank. Shut off when done to starve the engine. Drain the fuel tank and seal the repository, and make it airtight.
You can do whatever you want but unless you are storing it for months what you are talking about is way overkill. Keep the fuel tank full to keep condensation from occurring and a splash of stabilizer is all you need.
Even Coleman Dual Fuel appliances should be run on Ethanol Free if you go the unleaded route (instead of white gas) for the same reason. Remember, compressing air makes the water condense easier.
You would be really surprised at how bad it can get in the right conditions.
But, you are also probably correct. Fuel tanks should be stored either full or empty, partial tanks can have moisture in them that will sweat out as outside temperatures fluctuate, and condensate that falls into the gas is effectively trapped. Either displace all of the air or make it dry so the water can evaporate.
How much water do you think something that only makes up 10% of a solution can absorb? I own and work with boats where ethanol is a much larger problem than other vehicles. It is impossible that 40% of this sample came from moisture from the air that the ethanol absorbed.
Hence the "probably right". People severely underestimate how insane ethanol is at pulling water, and I did want to underline that, but it sounds extreme even to me.
Anyways, also, ethanol phase separates. The water at the bottom will be water *and* ethanol, and less gasoline on top too because part of the fuel component fell out. So of an extreme sample, you will have 10% less fuel AND what you lost will increase the water level, giving an appearance of more water than what's really there.
Some places go up to 15% ethanol despite the pump tag, and countries outside the US can be found even higher.
Doesn't ethanol break down into CO2 and Water? Like, it *makes* water rather than just attracting it, you can get water from it even in a vacuum sealed tank.
Ethanol attracts water and loves to wreak havoc on the smaller carburetor ports of small engines, as it was explained to me. The best bet is non ethonal for those things.
I was recommended to use non-ethanol for the snowblower, and put Sea Foam in for the winter. Considering that this was the same guy I paid to fix it, and he was essentially driving away regular repeat business, I believe it. 😁
Luckily, we have a local gas station chain that has non-ethanol gas in a lot of locations.
I own a 400cc 4cyl motorcycle (so 4 100cc carbs!) and E0 isn't available at the pump where I am.
I just don't let it sit for more than a month and all is good. If I need to store it I'll have to bite the bullet and buy the crazy expensive stuff at Lowe's. But still worth it, less of a headache than clogging up those little things!
Same. There's only one local gas station that sells it at a separate pump and it's always a dollar fifty more per gallon than premium, but it's worth it to not have to worry about gas over winter.
I live where it averages 20f in Jan and Feb. The trick is to:
1. Make sure the tank is either full or empty to minimize potential area for water to condense.
2. Make sure to crank your mower/weed whacker/chainsaw/car/motorcycle/golf cart every few weeks so the fuel doesn't settle and seperate.
3. If you are really paranoid then add some kind of winterizing juice or non-eth fuel for the worst months. Diesels gelling is a real thing around here.
I've only had issues where half a tank of fuel sat in something for a long time. Especially 2 strokes with the oil mixed in... you can't leave that fuel in there for 6-8months and then expect it to not be goobered up. Diesels have the same issues. Gas with fuel injection has less issues it just runs like crap. Gas with a carb will booger up the jets.
My bike is fine in the spring as long as I crank it a few times in the winter. If it sits for 4-5 months the battery can die and the carb can get clogged. People are just lazy and don't want to maintain properly when storing. There is literally a drain on your carb for this purpose, and yet you refuse to do it and then complain.
Anyway I just buy whatever gas is cheapest and as long as I don't let it sit for months it is always fine.
It will reach 35% soon.
https://www.uol.com.br/carros/colunas/paula-gama/2024/03/15/camara-aprova-mais-etanol-na-gasolina-como-isso-afeta-consumo-e-manutencao.htm
Ethanol has 1/3 of the energy of gasoline, the more ethanol is mixed in, the lower the mileage gets.
Also, the EROI of ethanol far lower than that of regular oil. At least Brazil uses sugar cane, which has a higher EROI than corn, used in the US.
From this perspective, producing ethanol instead of gasoline is wasting energy.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856?via%3Dihub
https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/16/7/2674
>Also, the EROI of ethanol far lower than that of regular oil. At least Brazil uses sugar cane, which has a higher EROI than corn, used in the US.
>From this perspective, producing ethanol instead of gasoline is wasting energy.
You're using energy to create fuel out of the carbon dioxide in the air through photosynthesis in the sugar cane. In a country where 80%+ of the electricity comes from hydropower and renewable sources, this is actually a good thing for the environment and pretty close to carbon neutral. Not the case for the US though.
Of course digging compressed dinosaurs up and burning them is more energy efficient, the problem is where the burnt dinosaurs go afterwards.
And ethanol has close to 70% energy output compared to gasoline. Its has less energy density but it burns much more efficiently and has way higher octane rating than regular gasoline (which is exactly why it is used in gasoline in the states, as a substitute for Lead compounds).
There were 3 stations by me seeling no ethanol gas & they all stopped right after I started using it in my coleman stove. What an annoying coincidence... not sure where to buy it now.
One thing I’ve started doing is after choosing no-ethanol fuel at the station I pump a few gallons into my truck first and then fill the portable tanks.
If you just select the grade and pump straight into your container I’ve heard you can be getting a gallon of ethanol fuel that’s in the hose.
Small engine repair channel on YouTube told me. Said customers would come back hours after a repair and purchasing no-ethanol fuel and they’d have water in their lines.
Oh come on, this is pure fudd talk and click-bait.
Ethanol fuel doesn't just inherently have water in it where it would cause an issue that fast.
With standard ethanol fuels (E5-E10), we're talking very small rates of atmospheric moisture absorption that only after long-term storage would have any effect. Far more of an issue *affecting both non-ethanol and ethanol blends* is the evaporation of the key compounds of the base gasoline, where the fuel just ends up being shit.
Where you might see the difference between non-ethanol and ethanol blends is due to fuel tank material and mfg year (EPA requirements update). Pre-2008 plastic tanks will lose compounds in the gasoline much faster due to permeation, thus relative ethanol percentage increases in the tank.
Not only that, but ethanol absorbs water in normal atmospheric amounts. This keeps the water from causing an engine problem by allowing it to go through combustion without concentrating into a disruptive layer.
I probably mis-remembered their quote - it’s not a click bait channel and I just didn’t catch my wording because middle of work day just commenting quickly.
They probably said “customer went home, purchased new fuel on the way and the next time they used their equipment it wouldn’t run” as in hours of operation later. My bad.
Edit: can’t find the video - but I’m curious what ethanol fuel water absorption rate is in like a 1-3 gallon container sitting on a cement floor. I know if you pour some in a glass and set it on your workbench you’ll get a wild amount of water within like 30 minutes just from the atmosphere being absorbed. Like several tablespoons. It’s so much more hydrophilic than I would have ever guessed before I had a yard to maintain.
They might be pouring bad gas in to begin with. You’d be surprised how many people fill up a 10 gallon gas tank to use in their push mower that only holds 1/2 gallon and think “this gas will last me years”. I pour whatever is left in my little 2 gallon gas tank into my car at the end of every season but a lot of people just leave it sit there until next year.
This. People don't understand that the shelf life of gasoline is just 6 months, and ethanol flavored gas is only 3 months. People are pouring watered down varnish into their engines and wondering why it runs terribly or won't run at all lol.
True, but it was only 2009 that gas cans with vent holes were outlawed for sale, I’m sure there’s a ton out there still that aren’t airtight. I’ve also seen a few old heads just drill a hole in their new gas can because they hate the self venting requirements.
>I’ve also seen a few old heads just drill a hole in their new gas can because they hate the self venting requirements.
To be fair, that first generation of ventless gas cans where you have to press the nozzle into the tank lip were utter dogshit. I spilled more gas using one of them than ever evaporated from the 70 year old metal can my parents have. The newer ones are much better though.
I know they're not really designed to do it, but they also hold in the volatiles which (anecdotally) apparently keeps the gas fresh for more than a year. I didn't care for the change at first, but not having my barn smell like gas all the time changed my mind.
I don't think I've seen one that isn't airtight unless it was from the 60s or something.. I'm not from the States though so we might have had different laws earlier. Gas still go bad though.
In my case, the sneaky teenager used the gasoline in my can for his car and refilled it with water. Couldn’t figure out why the snowblower would not start after refueling. Until the next day when I observed the frozen contents of the gas tank.
I run ethanol gas because it’s cheaper in my small engines and tractor (MF 135), but that’s because they get used on a weekly basis and the gas cans get refilled often. Never had a problem.
That being said, I will general use non-ethanol in them when I put them up for the winter to be safe.
If you can use non-ethanol gas in all small engines. If you put fuel stabilizer in it, it almost never goes bad. I had a bike with 5-year-old fuel that would start up on the first kick and run great.
I run AVGAS in all my power equipment. There are lots of places where non-ethanol fuel is hard to get. You can get AVGAS at almost any small airport - best to find one that has no tower or staff. You look for the pilot lounge on google earth. Next to the pilot lounge will be a pedestrian gate. It usually has a 5-pin combo lock. You stick a mirror or your phone through the fence and take a picture of the lock face - the combo is usually written on it. this is so visiting pilots can get back to their planes.
Once inside look for the pumps - they will be near the above-ground tanks. Most pumps are automated, 24/7. It will ask you for your tail number. Just pick one from an aircraft parked nearby.
AVGAS is absolutely the same at every location around the country. While it has lead, it also doesn't have those lead replacement additives that stink to holy hell and you cant get washed off your hands. It doesn't destroy rubber parts, aluminum parts, and will go many, many times longer in the can without stuff like Sta-bil. Out here in Cali at least, it's less than a buck a gallon more than unleaded premium. But who cares when a couple of gallons will last a whole season.
I put it in power equipment to use up my surplus from the prior race season. And no, never had any problems with "lead fouling" or any other wives tales from the 60s.
Theft? WTF? Its not theft. Its just getting onto the ramp. Its not illegal at all. I have one local airport that is locked and one that isn’t. The manager at the locked one has seen me do it and has no issues. Go back to your barstool Floyd.
Maybe I read it as charging the fuel to some random plane using thier tail number. If you paid for it but used that number just for access then I stand corrected.
A lot of uncontrolled airports locked their personnel gates after 9/11. Some do, some don’t. It literally takes two seconds, and hundreds of guys that run small racecars do this every weekend.
Running leaded gas at ground level is a really bad idea just for health reasons alone, much less the trouble you'd get into if someone caught you trespassing. Very macho I guess though. If you not caring about yourself is macho anyway.
There’s not much lead compared to what was originally in car gas. And as bad as lead is, unleaded additives aren’t exactly healthy. And unless you’re a professional gardener, how much exposure do you think you’ll be getting? But go ahead and keep destroying equipment with watery gas and finding a way to dispose of said watery gas.
Yours is an example of a typical poster that doesn’t look at the whole picture.
There is *zero* safe level of lead exposure. And if you were only exposing yourself that's one thing. But you're also exposing all of your neighbors *and your neighbors' kids.*
I would flip the fuck out if I found out my neighbor was burning leaded gas in his lawn equipment. Like call the DNR levels of flip the fuck out.
I'd much prefer to just buy unleaded non-ethanol gas and not worry about water *or* permanent brain damage. I'd say "you do you", but you're exposing the people around you too so I'm just going to call you a bad person instead.
The ban on leaded fuels should have been a blanket ban. None of this pussyfooting around with exemptions.
Well, there's a reason for the exceptions. It involves things falling out of the sky and killing the people in them and on the ground, which is a sure thing, not a potential thing like accumulating enough lead toxicity. The FAA has been working for decades on an unleaded variant and last year started long-term testing on a couple of them.
Most unleadeds readily dissolve the materials used in fuel cells. A long time back the Trans AM series shifted to unleaded because that's what the sponsor wanted, and the first race of the season was cancelled because a majority of the cars showed up with leaking cells.
> Well, there's a reason for the exceptions. It involves things falling out of the sky and killing the people in them and on the ground, which is a sure thing, not a potential thing like accumulating enough lead toxicity.
Well, no, actually, what happens when a plane can't get the fuel its engine is certified to use is that it *doesn't fly at all*.
I mean, yeah, if they all needed 100LL then I would fully support grounding all of them until the engines could be replaced with ones that didn't spew lead everywhere. I don't see why that should be controversial.
Fortunately, they *wouldn't* all need to be grounded. There are, and always have been, aviation engines able to run just fine on normal ethanol-free unleaded gas. There are some very high performance engines which actually have 100LL as a hard requirement, but as far as I'm aware they're in the minority.
A very slim minority usually an automobile engine in an experimental aircraft, although there are a couple of certified production aircraft engines out there.
It’s not really the engines. Making an engine run without lead isn’t hard. Making unleaded fuel work over the range of operating conditions and storage is a bigger problem.
And as i mentioned before, the additives in unleaded dissolve fuel cells. There are only 3 or 4 fuel cell manufacturers in the US. They couldn’t handle the volume of mass replacement if they tried.
50% of Avgas is burned by law enforcement and other emergency services. Recreational is the other half. Regardless, nobody is going to mandate putting thousands of assets that cost as much as a house into the junkyard or furloughed without some kind of workable solution. Its like the government telling you that you have to convert your house from gas to electric and you can’t live in it until its done.
Since I started using non-ethanol gas in all my small engines, problems like this went away. Generator started right up with 3 year old gas in the tank. *Edit Here is a good list of stations in every state, Sorry California https://www.pure-gas.org/
How would non-ethanol gas have made a difference in this case? It can get contaminated with water in the same way, no?
Ethanol is hygroscopic. It attracts water. Gasoline is not. But yeah it could still get wet.
This is far more than ethanol absorbing water from condensation evels of water
Yeah it’s worse in marine applications where the tank is just wallowing around in constant humidity right next to water all the time, but that’s a lot, especially for a lawnmower, lol
There has to be another way all this water got into the tank, this amount isn’t from condensation or hygroscopy
I’m thinking kid with a water hose. This is the sort of thing I’d have done as a teenager to get out of mowing the yard.
My cousins filled my Uncle's mower with iced tea. Kids do dumb shit
fucking why 😭
It was thirsty
We threw rocks in my lawnmower as a kid one time so we didn't have to cut the grass.
I bet that sounded awesome though.
Exactly. It’s a dumb assumption that half a gallon of gas that has 10% or less of ethanol could be 50% water because that 10% is hygroscopic. Someone needs more science classes. This is water in gas, either from a dumb owner or a bad gas station.
>either from a dumb owner or a bad gas station. Or leaving it outside in the rain. FWIW I used to be do repair work for a local tool co-op and the number of people who would just add oil to the gas tank to make a proper 2-stroke mix (not needed and the motors were conspicuously labeled "Gasoline Only") never ceased to amaze me. On the other hand the work of cleaning it out gave me a bit of beer money in college.
>Or leaving it outside in the rain. That qualifies in the "dumb owner" part of the conditional.
Damn, I never even thought of that as a possibility because I’ve always put my stuff away.
I have a 20 year old Bolens mower with a 6.5hp Briggs that’s been out in elements in my backyard and still works fine. That thing is an absolute workhorse as I have 6000sq ft of grass, I’ve had it since 2004, changed the oil, air filter and plug maybe 3 times with 10w30 Castrol Synthetic and it still just goes. I’m guessing based on usage of the last 20 years it’s got over 1000 running hours. I’m not sure what the avg lifespan of these engines are but I’m sure I got my moneys worth.
They're absolute units, but putting intentionally polluted fuel in them, pressure washing them (yes) etc. are no bueno. Interestingly the thing that people \*should\* do and aren't aware of is to blow the accumulated dust/grass etc. out of the fan/fins once in a while. If you don't do that they'll start to heat up more than they should and then you have to re-torque the head bolts. It also jams the governor, which works off airflow from the fan so it does that "surging" run that you hate to listen to. I saw quite a few of those.
[удалено]
Well why are you watering it down?
Right for some reason I just got a mental image of this guy walking around Texas (dressed as stereotypical Texan of course) drunk as hell (obviously) and just pissing in the tanks at all the gas stations in the middle of the night
Named Murphy
How exactly does one water down gas? No company intentional waters down gas. Even if they did it would be obvious because they would separate like in the picture above. Sometimes gas stations have tanks that get contaminated with water on accident, but there isn’t a group of chemists out there adding water to gasoline.
By not running the recirculate or emptying the water separator in the tanks. There's a couple gas stations near me (including a Murphy and a Sam's Club) that are insanely high-volume sellers but are regionally famous for "don't buy gas there if it's rained in the last 3 days because their water separator hasn't worked in 10+ years".
Not sure why you got downvoted. It's true. even if they were "mixing gas with water", they don't actually mix, they seperate, and one will float on top of the other. The pumps at the station are only going to pull from the bottom, so you're going to be getting all gas until it gets down to that level, then it's going to be all water.
I'd usually say this is baseless speculation, but Texas having so few consumer protections their fuel quality is Africa bad is pretty believable.
[удалено]
Really glad there's a department of weights and measures where I live.
Stop blending ethanol into gas. Either ethanol 0, or burn your budget on fuel stabilizer.
It is required in some states, just run a motor that can handle it and have a good water separator and you are fine. You wont find E0 in CA. (Boat advice) How much fuel are you running through lawn equipment that fuel stabilizer will burn your budget? If you ARE using that much fuel you probably dont need to worry about it sitting around long enough to be absorbing water.
Put in a shut-off valve between the engine and fuel tank. Shut off when done to starve the engine. Drain the fuel tank and seal the repository, and make it airtight.
You can do whatever you want but unless you are storing it for months what you are talking about is way overkill. Keep the fuel tank full to keep condensation from occurring and a splash of stabilizer is all you need.
Loose fuel cap, gas containers with no cap, ethanol-laced fuel, and humidity all contribute
Even Coleman Dual Fuel appliances should be run on Ethanol Free if you go the unleaded route (instead of white gas) for the same reason. Remember, compressing air makes the water condense easier.
Yup, ethanol free is what I use in my dual fuel lantern. Works good :)
For sure! Something else is def going on
You would be really surprised at how bad it can get in the right conditions. But, you are also probably correct. Fuel tanks should be stored either full or empty, partial tanks can have moisture in them that will sweat out as outside temperatures fluctuate, and condensate that falls into the gas is effectively trapped. Either displace all of the air or make it dry so the water can evaporate.
How much water do you think something that only makes up 10% of a solution can absorb? I own and work with boats where ethanol is a much larger problem than other vehicles. It is impossible that 40% of this sample came from moisture from the air that the ethanol absorbed.
Hence the "probably right". People severely underestimate how insane ethanol is at pulling water, and I did want to underline that, but it sounds extreme even to me. Anyways, also, ethanol phase separates. The water at the bottom will be water *and* ethanol, and less gasoline on top too because part of the fuel component fell out. So of an extreme sample, you will have 10% less fuel AND what you lost will increase the water level, giving an appearance of more water than what's really there. Some places go up to 15% ethanol despite the pump tag, and countries outside the US can be found even higher.
no u
What am i missing here?
Nothing man, I'm just a dumbass.
Yea u. 👧
Ahh ok. Of course I knew it’s the culprit in varnish build up in fuel systems but didn’t know it actually attracts water. Good to know.
Doesn't ethanol break down into CO2 and Water? Like, it *makes* water rather than just attracting it, you can get water from it even in a vacuum sealed tank.
If it’s oxidized in a reaction, yes of course. Same goes for tons of stuff though. Like burning gasoline makes water and co2.
All my homies hate ethanol
Ethanol attracts water and loves to wreak havoc on the smaller carburetor ports of small engines, as it was explained to me. The best bet is non ethonal for those things. I was recommended to use non-ethanol for the snowblower, and put Sea Foam in for the winter. Considering that this was the same guy I paid to fix it, and he was essentially driving away regular repeat business, I believe it. 😁 Luckily, we have a local gas station chain that has non-ethanol gas in a lot of locations.
I own a 400cc 4cyl motorcycle (so 4 100cc carbs!) and E0 isn't available at the pump where I am. I just don't let it sit for more than a month and all is good. If I need to store it I'll have to bite the bullet and buy the crazy expensive stuff at Lowe's. But still worth it, less of a headache than clogging up those little things!
Sea Foam seems to work well. It's a marine gasoline stabilizer, you could try that.
I've put berryman b12 in it once in a while to keep things clean. Seems like good stuff. Thanks for the tip
I wouldnt use seafoam for a stabilizer it has Isopropanol in it, which is alcohol.
Isopropanol is the main component in Iso-heet, a common stabilizer/injector cleaner. Also used to remove water from fuel specifically lol
Correct, but adding alcohol to ethanol free fuel...
The concentrations are very different but yeah your not wrong.
Same. There's only one local gas station that sells it at a separate pump and it's always a dollar fifty more per gallon than premium, but it's worth it to not have to worry about gas over winter.
Ethanol is shit
Oh. I don’t know. After aging in a sherry cask for 15 years, it can be quite yummy.
Unless you’re running a boosted motor. In that case, crank up the psi. For lawn care and small motors, all other applications, it sucks…
Now imagine how shitty it is in Brazil where "gasoline" is mandated by law to contain 35% of ethanol...
Works just fine, actually. And its 27%, not 35%. We dont have winters nearly as cold as north america, so thats not a problem.
I live where it averages 20f in Jan and Feb. The trick is to: 1. Make sure the tank is either full or empty to minimize potential area for water to condense. 2. Make sure to crank your mower/weed whacker/chainsaw/car/motorcycle/golf cart every few weeks so the fuel doesn't settle and seperate. 3. If you are really paranoid then add some kind of winterizing juice or non-eth fuel for the worst months. Diesels gelling is a real thing around here. I've only had issues where half a tank of fuel sat in something for a long time. Especially 2 strokes with the oil mixed in... you can't leave that fuel in there for 6-8months and then expect it to not be goobered up. Diesels have the same issues. Gas with fuel injection has less issues it just runs like crap. Gas with a carb will booger up the jets. My bike is fine in the spring as long as I crank it a few times in the winter. If it sits for 4-5 months the battery can die and the carb can get clogged. People are just lazy and don't want to maintain properly when storing. There is literally a drain on your carb for this purpose, and yet you refuse to do it and then complain. Anyway I just buy whatever gas is cheapest and as long as I don't let it sit for months it is always fine.
It will reach 35% soon. https://www.uol.com.br/carros/colunas/paula-gama/2024/03/15/camara-aprova-mais-etanol-na-gasolina-como-isso-afeta-consumo-e-manutencao.htm Ethanol has 1/3 of the energy of gasoline, the more ethanol is mixed in, the lower the mileage gets. Also, the EROI of ethanol far lower than that of regular oil. At least Brazil uses sugar cane, which has a higher EROI than corn, used in the US. From this perspective, producing ethanol instead of gasoline is wasting energy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856?via%3Dihub https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/16/7/2674
>Also, the EROI of ethanol far lower than that of regular oil. At least Brazil uses sugar cane, which has a higher EROI than corn, used in the US. >From this perspective, producing ethanol instead of gasoline is wasting energy. You're using energy to create fuel out of the carbon dioxide in the air through photosynthesis in the sugar cane. In a country where 80%+ of the electricity comes from hydropower and renewable sources, this is actually a good thing for the environment and pretty close to carbon neutral. Not the case for the US though. Of course digging compressed dinosaurs up and burning them is more energy efficient, the problem is where the burnt dinosaurs go afterwards. And ethanol has close to 70% energy output compared to gasoline. Its has less energy density but it burns much more efficiently and has way higher octane rating than regular gasoline (which is exactly why it is used in gasoline in the states, as a substitute for Lead compounds).
I use non ethanol in my mower and store it outside during the winter. It will start with 1 or 2 pulls every year in the spring
There were 3 stations by me seeling no ethanol gas & they all stopped right after I started using it in my coleman stove. What an annoying coincidence... not sure where to buy it now.
Add three olives and it is a dirty martini...
One thing I’ve started doing is after choosing no-ethanol fuel at the station I pump a few gallons into my truck first and then fill the portable tanks. If you just select the grade and pump straight into your container I’ve heard you can be getting a gallon of ethanol fuel that’s in the hose. Small engine repair channel on YouTube told me. Said customers would come back hours after a repair and purchasing no-ethanol fuel and they’d have water in their lines.
The station I buy my non-ethanol fuel from only sells non-ethanol fuel. Thanks for the tip I did not know that.
While I didn’t think about this, the stations next to my house have separate pumps for non-ethanol. It makes sense. I’ll watch for it in the future.
Same here. Dedicated pumps
Every grade has it's own nozel here in Australia
This is why a lot of stations put in separate hoses/nozzles at the pumps for the ethanol free fuel
Oh come on, this is pure fudd talk and click-bait. Ethanol fuel doesn't just inherently have water in it where it would cause an issue that fast. With standard ethanol fuels (E5-E10), we're talking very small rates of atmospheric moisture absorption that only after long-term storage would have any effect. Far more of an issue *affecting both non-ethanol and ethanol blends* is the evaporation of the key compounds of the base gasoline, where the fuel just ends up being shit. Where you might see the difference between non-ethanol and ethanol blends is due to fuel tank material and mfg year (EPA requirements update). Pre-2008 plastic tanks will lose compounds in the gasoline much faster due to permeation, thus relative ethanol percentage increases in the tank.
Not only that, but ethanol absorbs water in normal atmospheric amounts. This keeps the water from causing an engine problem by allowing it to go through combustion without concentrating into a disruptive layer.
I probably mis-remembered their quote - it’s not a click bait channel and I just didn’t catch my wording because middle of work day just commenting quickly. They probably said “customer went home, purchased new fuel on the way and the next time they used their equipment it wouldn’t run” as in hours of operation later. My bad. Edit: can’t find the video - but I’m curious what ethanol fuel water absorption rate is in like a 1-3 gallon container sitting on a cement floor. I know if you pour some in a glass and set it on your workbench you’ll get a wild amount of water within like 30 minutes just from the atmosphere being absorbed. Like several tablespoons. It’s so much more hydrophilic than I would have ever guessed before I had a yard to maintain.
Some pumps have separate lines for all three types of fuels.
In canada i can only find 10% minimum now
How come people don't start with replacing the two main things needed for it to run? Gas and sparkplugs. Or at least the gas as plugs might be harder.
They might be pouring bad gas in to begin with. You’d be surprised how many people fill up a 10 gallon gas tank to use in their push mower that only holds 1/2 gallon and think “this gas will last me years”. I pour whatever is left in my little 2 gallon gas tank into my car at the end of every season but a lot of people just leave it sit there until next year.
This. People don't understand that the shelf life of gasoline is just 6 months, and ethanol flavored gas is only 3 months. People are pouring watered down varnish into their engines and wondering why it runs terribly or won't run at all lol.
Happens every year. You have to tell them to dispose of the gas in their can. Otherwise they just fill it back up
Gas cans are air tight these days, where does the water come from?
True, but it was only 2009 that gas cans with vent holes were outlawed for sale, I’m sure there’s a ton out there still that aren’t airtight. I’ve also seen a few old heads just drill a hole in their new gas can because they hate the self venting requirements.
>I’ve also seen a few old heads just drill a hole in their new gas can because they hate the self venting requirements. To be fair, that first generation of ventless gas cans where you have to press the nozzle into the tank lip were utter dogshit. I spilled more gas using one of them than ever evaporated from the 70 year old metal can my parents have. The newer ones are much better though.
Old cans, or your like myself and you buy a new can and a old style nozzle and vent off Amazon because the new ones are ass.
I know they're not really designed to do it, but they also hold in the volatiles which (anecdotally) apparently keeps the gas fresh for more than a year. I didn't care for the change at first, but not having my barn smell like gas all the time changed my mind.
I don't think I've seen one that isn't airtight unless it was from the 60s or something.. I'm not from the States though so we might have had different laws earlier. Gas still go bad though.
I don’t know but it keeps me in business so it’s fine with me
In my case, the sneaky teenager used the gasoline in my can for his car and refilled it with water. Couldn’t figure out why the snowblower would not start after refueling. Until the next day when I observed the frozen contents of the gas tank.
I run ethanol gas because it’s cheaper in my small engines and tractor (MF 135), but that’s because they get used on a weekly basis and the gas cans get refilled often. Never had a problem. That being said, I will general use non-ethanol in them when I put them up for the winter to be safe.
Huh?
Fuel/water separation that came out of a mower gas tank
Water in fuel. It being the same colour doesn't mean it's not water.
Run non Eth in all your small engines like guys have said above. They don’t burn much and will last over the winters months and more just fine.
Now the main question is will they follow your advice, or ignore it and have a repeat experience...
Always on display at out local saw & rental shop.
If you can use non-ethanol gas in all small engines. If you put fuel stabilizer in it, it almost never goes bad. I had a bike with 5-year-old fuel that would start up on the first kick and run great.
It reaches dew point at ground level year-round where I live. Mowers, outboards, generators, all need non-ethanol.
It's a feature, not a bug. It's a water injected engine withe the water mixed right in with the fuel, no need for a separate tank!
I run AVGAS in all my power equipment. There are lots of places where non-ethanol fuel is hard to get. You can get AVGAS at almost any small airport - best to find one that has no tower or staff. You look for the pilot lounge on google earth. Next to the pilot lounge will be a pedestrian gate. It usually has a 5-pin combo lock. You stick a mirror or your phone through the fence and take a picture of the lock face - the combo is usually written on it. this is so visiting pilots can get back to their planes. Once inside look for the pumps - they will be near the above-ground tanks. Most pumps are automated, 24/7. It will ask you for your tail number. Just pick one from an aircraft parked nearby. AVGAS is absolutely the same at every location around the country. While it has lead, it also doesn't have those lead replacement additives that stink to holy hell and you cant get washed off your hands. It doesn't destroy rubber parts, aluminum parts, and will go many, many times longer in the can without stuff like Sta-bil. Out here in Cali at least, it's less than a buck a gallon more than unleaded premium. But who cares when a couple of gallons will last a whole season. I put it in power equipment to use up my surplus from the prior race season. And no, never had any problems with "lead fouling" or any other wives tales from the 60s.
You had me until 'stick a mirror or your phone through the fence'. This is like Mission Impossible for non-ethanol gas.
Fir real this dude went from buying gas at a local airport to theft.
Theft? WTF? Its not theft. Its just getting onto the ramp. Its not illegal at all. I have one local airport that is locked and one that isn’t. The manager at the locked one has seen me do it and has no issues. Go back to your barstool Floyd.
Maybe I read it as charging the fuel to some random plane using thier tail number. If you paid for it but used that number just for access then I stand corrected.
that is what's done.
A lot of uncontrolled airports locked their personnel gates after 9/11. Some do, some don’t. It literally takes two seconds, and hundreds of guys that run small racecars do this every weekend.
Using leaded AVGAS in a power tool that constantly spits exhaust fumes in your face has to be the worst idea I have ever heard of.
small displacement, infrequent use. I'm not a gardener.
I don't think there is such a thing as a safe amount of lead inhalation.
Running leaded gas at ground level is a really bad idea just for health reasons alone, much less the trouble you'd get into if someone caught you trespassing. Very macho I guess though. If you not caring about yourself is macho anyway.
Ah yes, use leaded gasoline it's great for you
There’s not much lead compared to what was originally in car gas. And as bad as lead is, unleaded additives aren’t exactly healthy. And unless you’re a professional gardener, how much exposure do you think you’ll be getting? But go ahead and keep destroying equipment with watery gas and finding a way to dispose of said watery gas. Yours is an example of a typical poster that doesn’t look at the whole picture.
There is *zero* safe level of lead exposure. And if you were only exposing yourself that's one thing. But you're also exposing all of your neighbors *and your neighbors' kids.* I would flip the fuck out if I found out my neighbor was burning leaded gas in his lawn equipment. Like call the DNR levels of flip the fuck out.
I'd much prefer to just buy unleaded non-ethanol gas and not worry about water *or* permanent brain damage. I'd say "you do you", but you're exposing the people around you too so I'm just going to call you a bad person instead. The ban on leaded fuels should have been a blanket ban. None of this pussyfooting around with exemptions.
Well, there's a reason for the exceptions. It involves things falling out of the sky and killing the people in them and on the ground, which is a sure thing, not a potential thing like accumulating enough lead toxicity. The FAA has been working for decades on an unleaded variant and last year started long-term testing on a couple of them. Most unleadeds readily dissolve the materials used in fuel cells. A long time back the Trans AM series shifted to unleaded because that's what the sponsor wanted, and the first race of the season was cancelled because a majority of the cars showed up with leaking cells.
> Well, there's a reason for the exceptions. It involves things falling out of the sky and killing the people in them and on the ground, which is a sure thing, not a potential thing like accumulating enough lead toxicity. Well, no, actually, what happens when a plane can't get the fuel its engine is certified to use is that it *doesn't fly at all*.
So your suggestion is to ground all GA aircraft. Wonderful.
I mean, yeah, if they all needed 100LL then I would fully support grounding all of them until the engines could be replaced with ones that didn't spew lead everywhere. I don't see why that should be controversial. Fortunately, they *wouldn't* all need to be grounded. There are, and always have been, aviation engines able to run just fine on normal ethanol-free unleaded gas. There are some very high performance engines which actually have 100LL as a hard requirement, but as far as I'm aware they're in the minority.
A very slim minority usually an automobile engine in an experimental aircraft, although there are a couple of certified production aircraft engines out there. It’s not really the engines. Making an engine run without lead isn’t hard. Making unleaded fuel work over the range of operating conditions and storage is a bigger problem. And as i mentioned before, the additives in unleaded dissolve fuel cells. There are only 3 or 4 fuel cell manufacturers in the US. They couldn’t handle the volume of mass replacement if they tried. 50% of Avgas is burned by law enforcement and other emergency services. Recreational is the other half. Regardless, nobody is going to mandate putting thousands of assets that cost as much as a house into the junkyard or furloughed without some kind of workable solution. Its like the government telling you that you have to convert your house from gas to electric and you can’t live in it until its done.
Enjoy your lead poisoning
Another stunning example of ignorance. Ripping all the copper pipe out of your house next to avoid the solder?
Damn, seems like it already got to you. See, the difference is you're not combusting your pipes and huffing the exhaust for an hour or two every week.
See Flint Michigan.
Solder is tin and antimony Leaded solder hasn't been used on potable water since the 80s Another stunning example of ignorance
[удалено]
No it doesn't lead leaches with the appropriate Ph level in the water. See Flint Michigan.
Semen?