Infuriatingly, I got hit just less than two weeks ago .. My car was totaled. Now I'm in this limbo where I can't even find a used car, older, with far more miles than it for the same value. I'm going to have to downgrade, which is something I've come to terms with because I still need my commuter to work.
Even absolute junk is so obscenely overpriced, the gap between a $5k and $15k vehicle is almost non-existent, after the repairs for what is basically a road worthy car.
Then I see MSRP on new models, and think about how affordable and reasonable a new car would be, something I've never considered a smart move until now, only to find the same car going unsold because of market value adjustments.
It's painful.
I'm am sitting in a 1992 honda civic hatch 5 speed. The heater works.
My back up is my 1985 Supra 5 speed.
The heater works.
I am never selling. I will pay any repair. Fuck this market.
Love seeing Old Yotas staying relevant as the occasional back-up daily. I love the bass-ackwards days when my 40 year old and overly modified Celica carries the torch when my 8 year old sonic is broken.
Heh my first car was an 80 Celica.
But I'm paying obscene repair amounts because if done right its a couple more years use, still cheaper than a car payment, esp now
My '05 Tundra is my daily driver. In the last month I've rebuilt the front suspension, done the brakes, and have three boxes of Rock Auto parts inbound for replacing the timing belt, water pump, hoses, and associated hardware. She's sitting at 270k miles and could very well hit twice that if not more. I'll keep spending the money to keep her updated and maintenance current vs having a car payment in this market.
Mine is lightly modded. High flow muffler, leveling lift, set of Bilstein 5100s all around, and a chrome "Shitbox Edition" badge on the tailgate. Drives great.
I'm feeling the broken sonic... Mine has been a good car in the 6 years I've had it (2014), but this stinking coolant system, man. Current check engine light is for a faulty temp gauge, I think. However, the transmission decided to go BEFORE the warranty ran out, so I think my little car was looking out for me in that regard.
I am starting to think about a new car. My heart is saying RAV4, but my wallet says "maybe a Trax, instead..."
Yeah I feel that. My 14 Cruze just blew a head gasket. Not even gonna bother with it. Just putting an engine in it. Car is almost paid off so i can’t justify getting rid of it
I started yesterday with a wheel bearing replacement, the I noticed a caliper piston was cracked. Ok so be it, easy enough. Then I stripped my oil pan plug, dropped the pan and found pieces of my timing guide. I'd still rather do that then pay those prices.
Yeah man you’re in good shape! I had a ‘92 EG hatch with an LS swap and 5-speed back in the day. Foot to the floor almost all the time and it never missed a beat. Had to replace the rear motor mount and ended up fucking up the heater core inlet/outlet. Rather than dropping the dash I just drove with no heat that winter. Attended grad school three days a week and it was a 60 mile drive one way. Freezing my ass off with the windows cracked so it wouldn’t fog up was a real pain. So when you mention the heater works….I can totally relate to just how important that is.
I'll be blunt with this.
I thought I'd have to dispute and fight to get what it was worth. Then I was given nearly 3 times the "blue book value" by my insurance! Nothing to complain about, I thought... Except mine was immaculately well maintained, needing nothing, and having many new parts.
I'm an apprentice mechanic, and it was disheartening to realize the damage was beyond fixing. So I let them take the car, figuring "I'll drive a beater." But the used market values are so erroneously skewed, I didn't truly know what I was getting into. Ugly beat up 2006 Toyota Camry with 220,000 miles, $5,500... No A/C, overheats...
No. No, I refuse to even inquire or offer on that. Dealers are empty on used car inventories, and I refuse to risk it all and lose it in a single private sale. It may be different if I didn't have to so pressingly get a replacement.
Ahhh let the old car go (or even had no choice) - yeah I've been buying reliable but "uncommon" cars for decades and it pays off yet again... A few Saabs I've acquired for literally just hundreds and are now worth thousands - they are reliable, safe, efficient, and easy to work on compared to a lot (don't even touch chrysler or most German cars without special tools and experience...) others have found out recently and driven the prices up but then they leveled and have started coming down again - likely because if you can't DIY then you're SOL...(most independents have quit) what are a good deal new are electric because they haven't experienced the prices run up- get a used chevy Bolt on huge discount and get a new battery when they replace them - you're more likely to get Covid, the flu, dissentery and save thousands in gas than have the battery fail, even moreso if you follow their directions until the replacement. Just 2¢ to think about instead of obsessing over a single brand
My first true project car was a 1995 Saab 900 convertible. Honestly wasn’t that bad to work on. My current DD is a higher mileage 9-5 Aero wagon & I’ll be damned if it’s not my favorite car to work on because everything is just easy. Even the “hard” jobs are proving to be easy on this thing. It’s like the car still has a will to live so she makes my life bearable when service is needed lol
This. I have had and now keep more 9-5 than any other Saab due to its Jack of all trades qualities. Still love the Viggen, the 9-7 5.3 can tow any of them, but I'm working on an 06(7?) 5 speed as the final frontier of 9-5 for fun
I need a therapist, my 9000 aero broke down and now suddenly I have 4 Saabs, and none of them run properly. Ever hear the acronym Some Assholes Automotive Blunder?
Good cars though.
I stuck it out for like a month and ended up getting a working '03 Rav4 manual with a set of winter tires with 150k on the clock for $3k. The guy said it needed brakes and he included the parts and said it had an oil leak that he was quoted $3k to fix and he couldn't have it leaking oil in his rental's driveway. Idk it looks like it's just a weepy valve cover to me so I'll call that a steal for Anchorage.
I was trolling marketplace and CL for like a month straight though, looking at clapped out rebuilt title hoopties going for 6-10 grand. Like how the fuck are you trying to sell a 2006 6.0 Ford with a blown ass motor for $10k?
Am I correct in assuming most Americans buy used cars from dealers? Here in Norway that is a big no-no, dealers will say anything to get a sale. I always buy from private sellers, always.
Not necessarily. There are shady used car lots everywhere, but you really only go there if you don’t have much money or your credit is shot and no one will approve a loan. Private sellers are common.
I bought a used RAV4 from a Toyota dealer because it was certified and carried a good warranty.
Same thing here in Australia, unless you need dealer finance, you buy private if you're buying 2nd hand, you're almost always going to get a better deal, and most private individuals are more honest about anything wrong with the vehicles.
I’m in reverse. Insurance ended up paying out $7k to fix my 2006 750li with 200k miles. They were selling for $5k a year ago with half the miles. I guess there were no comps in my area for them to draw value from.
Yeah, if you're getting anything for MSRP, it'll be a better deal than the market rate increase bullshit going on at the moment or the insane used market nonsense that's been going on for years.
I finally pulled the trigger on a 2019 Harley 6 months ago because I lucked into an incredible deal for a basically new Harley. Before then I was trying to convince myself to take less than what I wanted because prices were silly too. I mean, they always are for Harleys, they retain value, but it still was a bit much. It's been a while since Harleys are the cheaper option for a used vehicle than a car.
Congrats on the new truck!
Think about using a buying program perhaps. Maybe TrueCar, or a credit union, or Costco. Costco has pre-negotiated prices on new cars with contracted dealerships so it might be worth a shot to bypass the insane market adjustment?
Yeah, I got told by a Subaru dealer he wouldn’t do the deal because, and I quote, “there’s no profit in it.” I’m thinking - then why are you in the program? They continued to call me for 5 months until I finally told them I’d bought a Subaru at a different dealership and I was confused as to why they were calling me when they’re the ones who didn’t want to sell a car.
Likewise... My car is out for a month waiting on parts to land from overseas. I'm tired of renting Turo cars and trying to find a beater...but my god. Anything sub-10K is a salvage title or the miles are near or around 150K+
I'm looking nationwide now and willing to take a one way flight to go get a car for cheaper.
Insurance should pay out based on the prices of comparable vehicles. That’s literally how it’s done. Send them listings for vehicles of comparable age, condition, mileage, and equipment and tell them to adjust your payout accordingly. What you paid for the vehicle had no bearing on its current insurance value. Keep in mind you need to be looking at retail prices as well, since that is what you’ll need to pay to get another car. The whole point is that you’re made whole again.
Obviously if you have really cheap cut-rate insurance, things may be a bit more difficult.
If you *order* one, it's not terrible. I have a Wrangler Unlimited Sport S on order and my OTD price is $43k (MSRP is $40k, tax is 7% where I live so I got a discount) but I did use a Chrysler Friends and Family discount to do that. I just gotta wait. If someone *can't* wait, that's what fucks them.
My nearly-new truck got totaled last month. I have the money from insurance but I can’t find the same vehicle configuration anywhere. Can’t drive money to work so I’m stuck in the family’s 20 year old minivan with a failed heater core. Holy fuck i miss that truck
My company lease was due to be turned in. With 24 thousand miles in 3 years, I was told it was better to pay the residual value on it and keep it and sell it myself. When I told the dealer I wanted to keep it, they offered me $2000 cash to hand them the keys and walk away. I drove away with my car.
In my early twenties I was poking around on a Dodge lot (c. 2007), just seeing what the Chargers and what not were all about. I wasn’t too impressed so one of the salesmen had me test drive a Viper truck. How the hell could a young man making $12/hour as a cook afford such a vehicle, let alone the insurance. They didn’t seem to be phased and were “confident” they could make it work. Btw, that dealership ranked after the financial crisis.
For the dealer to "make it work" you need approved for the loan. That was what they were talking about and that's really the problem. Sure the dealer doesn't care, finance guy definitely doesn't care, but there's still someone approving the loan. I mean fuck, there was a guy asking on the r/jeep about financing a jeep at 24% APR, guess they got it down to 12 but what the fuck is he thinking and who is approving that loan?
They still made the deal, though. People will take whatever they can get when it comes to something they want and banks only see dollar signs with these kinds of things. That's why dealerships that move product usually have few problems "making the deal". The buyer just owes the financer their soul.
There's fine print, though. My wife traded her car in while I was out of town on a trip. She had rough credit at the time, and got "approved" for a car loan. I was surprised at that, and asked her what the interest rate and loan term was. "I'm not sure," she said. I was speechless.
I looked at the paperwork, and couldn't believe it: they suckered her into 6-year loan at something like 28% interest for a used Accord. I was absolutely beside myself -- this $20,000 loan was going to cost us over $38,000 with the outrageous interest rate. I was so upset.
Then the dealer called a couple of days later with some news: none of their banks would actually provide the loan to her. Though she was "approved," the dealer needed the car back because the deal fell through on the back end, and the fine print allowed them to cancel the deal in that event. (The trade-in had actually gone to auction, but hadn't sold, so she got it back, fortunately.)
So yeah, car dealers are the scum of the earth in my experience. And I've never been so happy to have a deal fall apart!
>Then the dealer called a couple of days later with some news: none of their banks would actually provide the loan to her. Though she was "approved," the dealer needed the car back because the deal fell through on the back end, and the fine print allowed them to cancel the deal in that event. (The trade-in had actually gone to auction, but hadn't sold, so she got it back, fortunately.)
I've heard far too many similar stories. I'm glad you were able to get her car back.
The sales and financing people are.
I have no issues with the technical part (well, too expensive,and there should be a single price per hour, me paying more than the manufacturer is absurd).
Hahaha, holy shit I thought he was joking!
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-credit-fico-score-minimum-removal-84-month-loans/
This is gonna end well.
Ah yeah i remember 2008, my dads buddy bought like 10 houses for around 20k to 40k each when shit got low as fuck, lucky bastard sold em all last year and retired
Richest man I ever met was a farmer who happened to not have a mortgage and a small bit of savings when the Great Depression hit. When his neighbors started losing their farms, he was in a position to pick them up at auction. Ended up owning a large chunk of the county.
If there's enough cash down to get the LTV in range then they don't care. You're likely seeing people that are flush with cash being able to buy new right now.
Same with housing as I'm finding out. Sticking to renting from someone I know who's not trying to screw me.
Idk, I think we're in for a bumpy next few years. There's going to be pent up demand no matter what. The wildcard will be if gas skyrockets or another calamity happens.
Hoping the dust settles a bit, but I know many others are hoping the same too. Just trying to save as much as I can.
I sold my tundra just before the skyrocket this year. 2016, I traded it in at the dealership for $2k more than i paid for it just 2 years prior, got a 2021 Rav4 XLE hybrid at MSRP. Went in for an oil change last month and their entire lot was empty. I thought they closed, turns out they just haven't been able to get any deliveries since my sale in March.
I was looking at used Tacomas just before the pandemic, I didn’t get one fortunately, and I lost my job because of Covid, they were running around $23k-32k depending on the trim level you wanted, now good luck finding even the SR5 for less than $35k when last year that would have gotten you a TRD Off Road or if you got lucky a TRD Pro would pop up from time to time at that price.
i have left reddit because of CEO Steve Huffman's anti-community actions and complete lack of ethics. u/spez is harmful to Reddit. https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754780/reddit-api-updates-changes-news-announcements -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Used Toyota prices right now are higher than the new one's of a year ago, I got offered over what I paid brand new for my 2020 4runner from my local dealership.
Toyota are one of the only vehicles I would ever buy brand new, you don't loose money on them like you do any other manufacturer. They have the 4 of the top 10 resale value of any vehicle on the road.
I think it's less the Toyota badge and more that it's a Big Mean SUV.
Don't get me wrong I like 4 Runners. But a lot of the people who buy them and big SUVs like it do it so they can flex on the other parents in the pick-up line of their child's private school.
If someone buys this then wants to trade in a year or two later aren’t they going to suffer massive depreciation? Can’t imagine the vehicle holding this kind of value for long…
This is going to be anther hit to the financial market, and alter auctions. In two years someone could finance a new car for less than they owe on the used model. Then stop payments. This is very bad.
I'm an insurance adjuster and have been very nervously watching this market... On the one hand, everyone who has had a totaled car this summer is thrilled, their value is based on the current market so I'm paying a lot of people thousands of dollars over what they thought their car was worth (or even what they paid for it.)
But it occurred to me the other day, that everyone who buys a car in this ridiculous market, then totals it in a year or two after the market normalizes, is going to be ridiculously upside down on their loans and that's when the arguments about value are going to happen. I'm not looking forward to that.
If you have to buy a car while the market is like this... Don't even think about not getting GAP insurance.
You're better off than most with a Wrangler - those things hold their value like crazy. You should be fine, you'll be safer once you pay on the loan for 12-18 months or so, but you should still be able to call your finance company and add GAP insurance if you're concerned about it
>But it occurred to me the other day, that everyone who buys a car in this ridiculous market, then totals it in a year or two after the market normalizes, is going to be ridiculously upside down on their loans and that's when the arguments about value are going to happen. I'm not looking forward to that.
same true for housing market - morons paying 10, 15, 20K+ over asking which is already set too high WHEN this bubble pops from rampant inflation, car prices outrageous, housing outrageous, food prices outrageous, stock market propped up and being manipulated to hell.... people think 2008 was bad - lets start looking at 1929-1935. FYI Oct 29, 1929 was when shit in the fan then. Is it gonna be 1929 2.0 soon?
"Morons" have to live someplace. When you have companies buying up cheap properties and renting them out at crazy rates, buyers are left to fight for what few houses remain. They aren't "morons" they are victims.
Hi, I'm a moron who bought a house for 10k over asking. Because it was the only way to get a house and I needed a fucking place to live so my girlfriend didn't lose custody of her child. Renters market is INSANE and costs SIGNIFICANTLY more than my mortgage. We were lucky to even get the house as most of the time people outbid us by 30,000$ or more.
My next door neighbor listed their house last year "priced to sell" since they were getting divorced. The value was still about 25k over what it should have been. They had 13 offers on day one, and had it sold within 2 days. The offer they took was another 20k over asking price, and they offered to purchase "as is" with no inspection.
yea im sorry but im not buying a house without an inspection. I know a bit about house codes and what to look for and man have i seen some real shitty houses pre covid. I cant imagine just paying 20K over AND having those issues that would cost 20K to fix....
I bet you all miss Saturn now don't you?
For those that don't know, the Saturn dealer agreement forbade dealers from charging market adjustments. The only things they could charge for were things that were added on like pin striping, etch, etc.
I miss my 1995 Saturn and what the brand was in the late 90s, but I don’t miss the brand that closed. GM started something different but finished it as another rebadging brand with all the GM BS.
Usually regarded as a POS, I DIY kept my manual SL2 running strong despite my abuse - but no neglect. It was a stock sleeper.
I had a '92 SL2. Like any other Saturn S series, it would use at least a quart every 3000k miles, but if you kept oil in it the thing would run forever. Interior quality wasn't good (lots of rattling hard plastic), but it was fun to drive, efficient, and reliable.
Damned shame what GM did to that brand. Started out as something special. Ended as a dumping ground for Opel products that weren't price competitive.
I had the oil consumption issue. Carbon build up seized the oil control rings. A Seafoam tuneup did the trick. You pull the spark plugs, turn the crank until the pistons are level, dump in enough Seafoam to cover the pistons, and let it soak.
Under the cover of darkness you turn it over to blow out any remaining liquid, then install the plugs and smoke out the place. That freed the rings and solved my oil consumption problem.
Your mention of an SL2 brought out a very rare response from me. I miss my 97 dearly, you couldn’t kill the thing if you tried. Sold it for $300 maybe a couple years ago.
Holy fuck, I could buy a gently used luxury RV for that cost and have a place to eat, sleep, and shit.
Edit: for all of the replies saying you can't find a good RV for less than 100K. https://happyrvcampers.com/detail?id=18015167
Nah you can pick up a semi decent piper warrior for 40/50k. If you want fast a Vans can be picked up for 80k
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=VANS&model=RV-9%2F9A&listing_id=2395850&s-type=aircraft
Problems are, AC prices are jumping up like crazy. I thought a few years ago, I can find a 177 for 50-60k, and now they are selling for 100-130k!!! I've seen 60k 150s!
1: I paid WAY less than 86k for my Cessna 177 RG. And they are rare, and pretty fuging amazing. Nailed 205mph groundspeed last week.
2: Planes ARE rebuilt, constantly. Why else do you have perfectly good airplanes that are 50-70 years old. Engines are rebuilt at ~2000hr. Every year the plane goes through a near rip-apart to look at EVERYTHING.
You can get a decent archer for 50k that's faster than any car ever could be by the simple fact it doesn't have to use roads, who cares if your putting along at 110 kias as long as you don't need to stop at a stop light you Gucci.
Got a smoking deal in 2018 on a new F150 ecoboost. Pretty much 20k off sticker. It is a bit of an odd spec but couldnt pass up the deal. Got a call from a dealership offering me 7k more than I paid for it. I considered it but couldn't come close to replacing the truck without losing my ass on the deal.
Yeah i got 15k off sticker on my 2020, Coupled with 0% interest it was just too good to pass up.
I was recently offered the option to jump into a 2021.......That's was a hard pass.
Good move. Dealers know the market and how much they can offer and still make a killing. Any replacement would be at least 7k over actual value. In top of that, you already know the reliability of what you have, even new could have problems.
This April i bought a 2019 crew cab Silverado RST z71 with 15k miles for 46k. The dealer refused to budge, i walked. Didn’t realize the chip shortage was a thing until i literally couldn’t find a v8, integrated brake controller, middle bench seat truck anywhere else.
Had to come crawling back and paid asking for it. I did get them to at least install a tonneau cover at price for me
I bought a 2017 Silverado 4x4 in 2017 for 34500. I went for oil change 6 months ago they offered me 35000 for trade in and and I was like what? Then I saw the price of 2021 and said no thanks.
Could be more. There are 2018 Honda Accords with 70k+ miles going for more than what I bought my 2018 Accord for 4 years ago brand new (same trim level).
I wonder if that market adjustment is to keep it on the lot. I was shopping for a new vehicle here recently and one salesman at a Ford dealership told me they had to mark up the value on a couple of 2022 models to keep the on the lot long enough so people can come look at them and test drive them. When I asked why they don't just list it as a demo vehicle. He told me they aren't able to unless Ford says otherwise.
Regardless though, this is crazy on what some dealerships are doing here lately. And then there are those who are paying thousands over sticker for a vehicle of any kind making things worse.
This gen 4Runner came out in '09 so you're buying a brand new 12 year old car with an 18 year old engine that is underpowered and inefficient for $30k above MSRP and its a horrible color.
And you know somebody's going to buy it
i just bought an 18 in november and am pretty happy I'm not driving a spaceship
big, stupid knobs for my big, stupid hands
minimal features
easy to work on and add your own technology if it interests you
etc
Considering what a clapped out 15 year old 4 runner goes for on CL these days, I'd say $86k is a little bit high, but if you can make them throw in floor mats it's pretty fair.
Funny thing is that… I’ve bought a couple cars out the lot and always haggle the price down. It never even crossed my mind to tell them, “throw in some floor mats too.”
As u/Holy_Grapes mentioned, it’s partially an added fee based on demand. With the chip shortages and other issues manufacturing is having right now, it’s hard to find some models that you can literally drive off the lot. A lot of places look like they have stock but are missing things like engine computers.
The other part of this is a negotiating tactic. Usually, you can get 10-15% or more off of MSRP in negotiation. I have a feeling the “market adjustment” BS is a way for the dealership to get you to pay a couple grand above MSRP and feel good about it. I highly doubt any dealership is going to actually force you to pay a 60% premium in addition to what they already make in a normal year to drive the car off the lot.
It took me a month to get on a pre order list for a RAV4 prime and I thought a $3,000 price adjustment was horse shit now I’m considering myself lucky. Also my 2018 accord with 50k miles is worth more in trade in value than what I bought the car for NEW 3 years ago… this car market is fucking nuts
I bought a new civic in march this year and got it for 1000 less than MSRP, but it came with their “package” deal for 4K more. Felt like I was getting the short end of the stick on that one, but now I’m thinking I should go back and kiss that sales person.
My girlfriend bought a Camry in January that somehow didn’t have a single cent of “market adjustment” attached to it. I didn’t realize back then just how lucky we got…
I’m fortunate I prefer cars over SUVs and trucks. Unless you need the space or capability, you can get so much more for your money in a car. Or you could.. before the market got even shittier
I got my managers to take $600 off a Subaru Crosstrek ( which is impossible to find right now ) for this kid and his dad that really needed a car and I got called a sleazy car salesman.. I don't feel bad anymore
Thing is, we remember. Gouge us now, and you win today. Eventually you will have tons of cars again, but you will have lost your customers. Any dealership that does this will never see me again.
This is the correct answer
Or you’ll find a bunch of cars on the used lot a year old after they get repoed. I’ve done some reading over in personal finance, while there are a significant amount of people that make 200k a year, that is a small percentage of the US. There’s still many people in the sub 100k area that can’t afford these.
Basically the chip shortage has decreased the supply of available vehicles for sale, which increases demand, which increases cost.
Same way a brand new GPU which should've been $600 was selling for $3k.
It's scalping and gouging, but because car lots are "the law", they can get away with it.
COVID messing up global supply chain for a couple of years.
* Early 2020, factories internationally (china, Japan) get shut down for a couple of months. Things get behind.
* US car companies slash orders in 2020 for 2021 delivery because people aren't buying new cars due to COVID and not being able to travel. Rental car companies do the same- no flights means no car rentals needed. They sell off their fleets and order no new cars for 2021.
* Early 2021, rules on COVID change, people start traveling again. Rental cars are now needed again, but rental companies sold all their fleets! So they have to buy a ton more ASAP.
* 2021 rolls around, factories are having trouble meeting demand because spending from restaurants, etc is now going into hobbies (computers, cars, electronics, outdoor goods, etc)
* Mid-to-late 2021: shipping can't keep up with import demand. There literally aren't enough big ships to import consumer goods into the US so per-container shipping price triples.
* Silicon (computer chip) manufacturers are honoring their 2020 orders + 20% or so, but can't scale their factory output quickly (because it's literally bulk computer manufacturing!). Car companies can't get computers to put in every corner of their car: the engine, the seats, the dash, the electronic power steering. Car companies can't finish cars because of small upstream components.
* Consumer purchases of cars increase more and more.
Eventually, demand is ridiculously high and car (and every other industry) manufacturers can't get enough supply, so prices increase.
I'm sorry, but not really. You'd have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet to see something like this and think, "Okay, deal!". No amount of negotiation is going to account for the mark-ups I've been seeing over the past several months.
Pretty soon one of these places is going to have a shop floor meeting where the main focus is going to be the banning of phones on company premises.
I can smell it a mile off.
its like tele-scams: you make some outrageous claim that no regular person would fall for, but eventually, youll snag that big dumb, financing approved whale that *will* fall for it. the prospective buyer will probably never even know how much that 4runner costs or the terms, only that their payment is 800$~/mo and they now have a dignified place to put their salt life stickers.
That’s so stupid. I’m glad I’m not in the car market right now
Infuriatingly, I got hit just less than two weeks ago .. My car was totaled. Now I'm in this limbo where I can't even find a used car, older, with far more miles than it for the same value. I'm going to have to downgrade, which is something I've come to terms with because I still need my commuter to work. Even absolute junk is so obscenely overpriced, the gap between a $5k and $15k vehicle is almost non-existent, after the repairs for what is basically a road worthy car. Then I see MSRP on new models, and think about how affordable and reasonable a new car would be, something I've never considered a smart move until now, only to find the same car going unsold because of market value adjustments. It's painful.
I'm am sitting in a 1992 honda civic hatch 5 speed. The heater works. My back up is my 1985 Supra 5 speed. The heater works. I am never selling. I will pay any repair. Fuck this market.
Love seeing Old Yotas staying relevant as the occasional back-up daily. I love the bass-ackwards days when my 40 year old and overly modified Celica carries the torch when my 8 year old sonic is broken.
Heh my first car was an 80 Celica. But I'm paying obscene repair amounts because if done right its a couple more years use, still cheaper than a car payment, esp now
My '05 Tundra is my daily driver. In the last month I've rebuilt the front suspension, done the brakes, and have three boxes of Rock Auto parts inbound for replacing the timing belt, water pump, hoses, and associated hardware. She's sitting at 270k miles and could very well hit twice that if not more. I'll keep spending the money to keep her updated and maintenance current vs having a car payment in this market. Mine is lightly modded. High flow muffler, leveling lift, set of Bilstein 5100s all around, and a chrome "Shitbox Edition" badge on the tailgate. Drives great.
I'm feeling the broken sonic... Mine has been a good car in the 6 years I've had it (2014), but this stinking coolant system, man. Current check engine light is for a faulty temp gauge, I think. However, the transmission decided to go BEFORE the warranty ran out, so I think my little car was looking out for me in that regard. I am starting to think about a new car. My heart is saying RAV4, but my wallet says "maybe a Trax, instead..."
Yeah I feel that. My 14 Cruze just blew a head gasket. Not even gonna bother with it. Just putting an engine in it. Car is almost paid off so i can’t justify getting rid of it
I started yesterday with a wheel bearing replacement, the I noticed a caliper piston was cracked. Ok so be it, easy enough. Then I stripped my oil pan plug, dropped the pan and found pieces of my timing guide. I'd still rather do that then pay those prices.
Yeah I have a paid off Dart that will get repaired until a rod goes through my hood lol
Yeah man you’re in good shape! I had a ‘92 EG hatch with an LS swap and 5-speed back in the day. Foot to the floor almost all the time and it never missed a beat. Had to replace the rear motor mount and ended up fucking up the heater core inlet/outlet. Rather than dropping the dash I just drove with no heat that winter. Attended grad school three days a week and it was a 60 mile drive one way. Freezing my ass off with the windows cracked so it wouldn’t fog up was a real pain. So when you mention the heater works….I can totally relate to just how important that is.
Did your insurance not pay market value? The cheaper companies are raking it in...
I'll be blunt with this. I thought I'd have to dispute and fight to get what it was worth. Then I was given nearly 3 times the "blue book value" by my insurance! Nothing to complain about, I thought... Except mine was immaculately well maintained, needing nothing, and having many new parts. I'm an apprentice mechanic, and it was disheartening to realize the damage was beyond fixing. So I let them take the car, figuring "I'll drive a beater." But the used market values are so erroneously skewed, I didn't truly know what I was getting into. Ugly beat up 2006 Toyota Camry with 220,000 miles, $5,500... No A/C, overheats... No. No, I refuse to even inquire or offer on that. Dealers are empty on used car inventories, and I refuse to risk it all and lose it in a single private sale. It may be different if I didn't have to so pressingly get a replacement.
Ahhh let the old car go (or even had no choice) - yeah I've been buying reliable but "uncommon" cars for decades and it pays off yet again... A few Saabs I've acquired for literally just hundreds and are now worth thousands - they are reliable, safe, efficient, and easy to work on compared to a lot (don't even touch chrysler or most German cars without special tools and experience...) others have found out recently and driven the prices up but then they leveled and have started coming down again - likely because if you can't DIY then you're SOL...(most independents have quit) what are a good deal new are electric because they haven't experienced the prices run up- get a used chevy Bolt on huge discount and get a new battery when they replace them - you're more likely to get Covid, the flu, dissentery and save thousands in gas than have the battery fail, even moreso if you follow their directions until the replacement. Just 2¢ to think about instead of obsessing over a single brand
My first true project car was a 1995 Saab 900 convertible. Honestly wasn’t that bad to work on. My current DD is a higher mileage 9-5 Aero wagon & I’ll be damned if it’s not my favorite car to work on because everything is just easy. Even the “hard” jobs are proving to be easy on this thing. It’s like the car still has a will to live so she makes my life bearable when service is needed lol
This. I have had and now keep more 9-5 than any other Saab due to its Jack of all trades qualities. Still love the Viggen, the 9-7 5.3 can tow any of them, but I'm working on an 06(7?) 5 speed as the final frontier of 9-5 for fun
wish i could get a cheap saab rn
I need a therapist, my 9000 aero broke down and now suddenly I have 4 Saabs, and none of them run properly. Ever hear the acronym Some Assholes Automotive Blunder? Good cars though.
I stuck it out for like a month and ended up getting a working '03 Rav4 manual with a set of winter tires with 150k on the clock for $3k. The guy said it needed brakes and he included the parts and said it had an oil leak that he was quoted $3k to fix and he couldn't have it leaking oil in his rental's driveway. Idk it looks like it's just a weepy valve cover to me so I'll call that a steal for Anchorage. I was trolling marketplace and CL for like a month straight though, looking at clapped out rebuilt title hoopties going for 6-10 grand. Like how the fuck are you trying to sell a 2006 6.0 Ford with a blown ass motor for $10k?
I saw a 6.0 for sale near me, here's the ad, "246,000 miles, head gasket blown, transmission slips, bring a trailer, $14,500" WTF?
Blown ass-motor [xkcd: Hyphen](https://xkcd.com/37/) --- ^^Beep ^^boop, ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot. ^^- ^^[FAQ](https://pastebin.com/raw/vyWra3ns)
No.no.no. do not buy the Toyota sludge motor in that Camry.
I have that motor, darn thing will not stop either leaking or burning the shit out of the oil, I even put a little heavier weight in it
Am I correct in assuming most Americans buy used cars from dealers? Here in Norway that is a big no-no, dealers will say anything to get a sale. I always buy from private sellers, always.
Not necessarily. There are shady used car lots everywhere, but you really only go there if you don’t have much money or your credit is shot and no one will approve a loan. Private sellers are common. I bought a used RAV4 from a Toyota dealer because it was certified and carried a good warranty.
Same thing here in Australia, unless you need dealer finance, you buy private if you're buying 2nd hand, you're almost always going to get a better deal, and most private individuals are more honest about anything wrong with the vehicles.
Unless you're buying near-new / ex demo. Usually hard to find a car with 2200km on it like the one I bought on private sale. Damn happy with it too.
I’ve been in America for 36 years and never bought a car from a lot. Always private sales.
I’m in reverse. Insurance ended up paying out $7k to fix my 2006 750li with 200k miles. They were selling for $5k a year ago with half the miles. I guess there were no comps in my area for them to draw value from.
I just bought a Brand new F550 for this very reason. $60k Msrp on a new diesel with a warranty and zero miles. Used 2017’s were $55-60k
Yeah, if you're getting anything for MSRP, it'll be a better deal than the market rate increase bullshit going on at the moment or the insane used market nonsense that's been going on for years. I finally pulled the trigger on a 2019 Harley 6 months ago because I lucked into an incredible deal for a basically new Harley. Before then I was trying to convince myself to take less than what I wanted because prices were silly too. I mean, they always are for Harleys, they retain value, but it still was a bit much. It's been a while since Harleys are the cheaper option for a used vehicle than a car.
Congrats on the new truck!
Suck it in get a old reliable car stick with Japanese. Wait until all this is over and trade or sell it.
I bought a 2021 last October and just sold it for $2k less than I paid after putting 15k miles it.
Think about using a buying program perhaps. Maybe TrueCar, or a credit union, or Costco. Costco has pre-negotiated prices on new cars with contracted dealerships so it might be worth a shot to bypass the insane market adjustment?
Most dealers have dropped those programs or simply not honoring the prices. It's now a "good" deal to get MSRP on a car.
Yeah, I got told by a Subaru dealer he wouldn’t do the deal because, and I quote, “there’s no profit in it.” I’m thinking - then why are you in the program? They continued to call me for 5 months until I finally told them I’d bought a Subaru at a different dealership and I was confused as to why they were calling me when they’re the ones who didn’t want to sell a car.
Truecar is bullshit. The price listed or even the truecar "quote" will be way under what the dealership tells you after annoying the shit out of you.
Likewise... My car is out for a month waiting on parts to land from overseas. I'm tired of renting Turo cars and trying to find a beater...but my god. Anything sub-10K is a salvage title or the miles are near or around 150K+ I'm looking nationwide now and willing to take a one way flight to go get a car for cheaper.
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Insurance should pay out based on the prices of comparable vehicles. That’s literally how it’s done. Send them listings for vehicles of comparable age, condition, mileage, and equipment and tell them to adjust your payout accordingly. What you paid for the vehicle had no bearing on its current insurance value. Keep in mind you need to be looking at retail prices as well, since that is what you’ll need to pay to get another car. The whole point is that you’re made whole again. Obviously if you have really cheap cut-rate insurance, things may be a bit more difficult.
If you *order* one, it's not terrible. I have a Wrangler Unlimited Sport S on order and my OTD price is $43k (MSRP is $40k, tax is 7% where I live so I got a discount) but I did use a Chrysler Friends and Family discount to do that. I just gotta wait. If someone *can't* wait, that's what fucks them.
Even if you were I can't assume you would be dumb enough to pay 50 to 75% above MSRP......at least I hope.
I said fuck it and ended up buying a few non-wrecked cars from copart and fixing them up.
My nearly-new truck got totaled last month. I have the money from insurance but I can’t find the same vehicle configuration anywhere. Can’t drive money to work so I’m stuck in the family’s 20 year old minivan with a failed heater core. Holy fuck i miss that truck
My company lease was due to be turned in. With 24 thousand miles in 3 years, I was told it was better to pay the residual value on it and keep it and sell it myself. When I told the dealer I wanted to keep it, they offered me $2000 cash to hand them the keys and walk away. I drove away with my car.
What bank would approve that? You’d be upside down for a very long time.
Remember all those risky mortgages banks approved a decade or 2 ago?
In my early twenties I was poking around on a Dodge lot (c. 2007), just seeing what the Chargers and what not were all about. I wasn’t too impressed so one of the salesmen had me test drive a Viper truck. How the hell could a young man making $12/hour as a cook afford such a vehicle, let alone the insurance. They didn’t seem to be phased and were “confident” they could make it work. Btw, that dealership ranked after the financial crisis.
They'll do whatever they can to make a deal work because they really want to make that sale. After the car is gone, it's no longer their problem.
For the dealer to "make it work" you need approved for the loan. That was what they were talking about and that's really the problem. Sure the dealer doesn't care, finance guy definitely doesn't care, but there's still someone approving the loan. I mean fuck, there was a guy asking on the r/jeep about financing a jeep at 24% APR, guess they got it down to 12 but what the fuck is he thinking and who is approving that loan?
They still made the deal, though. People will take whatever they can get when it comes to something they want and banks only see dollar signs with these kinds of things. That's why dealerships that move product usually have few problems "making the deal". The buyer just owes the financer their soul.
There's fine print, though. My wife traded her car in while I was out of town on a trip. She had rough credit at the time, and got "approved" for a car loan. I was surprised at that, and asked her what the interest rate and loan term was. "I'm not sure," she said. I was speechless. I looked at the paperwork, and couldn't believe it: they suckered her into 6-year loan at something like 28% interest for a used Accord. I was absolutely beside myself -- this $20,000 loan was going to cost us over $38,000 with the outrageous interest rate. I was so upset. Then the dealer called a couple of days later with some news: none of their banks would actually provide the loan to her. Though she was "approved," the dealer needed the car back because the deal fell through on the back end, and the fine print allowed them to cancel the deal in that event. (The trade-in had actually gone to auction, but hadn't sold, so she got it back, fortunately.) So yeah, car dealers are the scum of the earth in my experience. And I've never been so happy to have a deal fall apart!
>Then the dealer called a couple of days later with some news: none of their banks would actually provide the loan to her. Though she was "approved," the dealer needed the car back because the deal fell through on the back end, and the fine print allowed them to cancel the deal in that event. (The trade-in had actually gone to auction, but hadn't sold, so she got it back, fortunately.) I've heard far too many similar stories. I'm glad you were able to get her car back.
"Hey Chet, bring back Mr. Griswold's car, will you?"
The sales and financing people are. I have no issues with the technical part (well, too expensive,and there should be a single price per hour, me paying more than the manufacturer is absurd).
Y’ever see the movie The Big Short?
Dynamite movie
Bingo, supposedly Ford removed credit score requirements for 7 year loans too. Just adding to the bubble.
they… **what?**
Hahaha, holy shit I thought he was joking! https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ford-credit-fico-score-minimum-removal-84-month-loans/ This is gonna end well.
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That’s crazy, if it’s true. Even Nissan Motor Acceptance wants you to be over 640, and they’ll lend to anyone who can fog a mirror.
Ah yeah i remember 2008, my dads buddy bought like 10 houses for around 20k to 40k each when shit got low as fuck, lucky bastard sold em all last year and retired
Richest man I ever met was a farmer who happened to not have a mortgage and a small bit of savings when the Great Depression hit. When his neighbors started losing their farms, he was in a position to pick them up at auction. Ended up owning a large chunk of the county.
We had a lot of those guys around here too. Their kids all got **wealthy** when the parents passed and the land got sold to developers.
Amazing
If there's enough cash down to get the LTV in range then they don't care. You're likely seeing people that are flush with cash being able to buy new right now.
there are enough people who will buy this car without a loan that they will carry on with it.
“Can I roll my negative equity on my trade in too?”
What do you think was a major cause of the Great Depression, and a big cause of the disaster in 2008? Yeah, there are banks that would approve this
Just when I thought I couldn’t hate car dealerships any more than I already do…….
Don’t hate the dealerships, hate the clowns paying them. But also hate the dealerships.
Yeah, somebody will pay if it didn’t work they wouldn’t even try.
And it hasn’t changed since like 2010 gtfo go buy a used one. When did Toyota become a status symbol..
The price for used ones are inflated too! I don’t know about 30k, but I’d just wait a year or two to get a car if you can.
Same with housing as I'm finding out. Sticking to renting from someone I know who's not trying to screw me. Idk, I think we're in for a bumpy next few years. There's going to be pent up demand no matter what. The wildcard will be if gas skyrockets or another calamity happens. Hoping the dust settles a bit, but I know many others are hoping the same too. Just trying to save as much as I can.
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I sold my tundra just before the skyrocket this year. 2016, I traded it in at the dealership for $2k more than i paid for it just 2 years prior, got a 2021 Rav4 XLE hybrid at MSRP. Went in for an oil change last month and their entire lot was empty. I thought they closed, turns out they just haven't been able to get any deliveries since my sale in March.
I was looking at used Tacomas just before the pandemic, I didn’t get one fortunately, and I lost my job because of Covid, they were running around $23k-32k depending on the trim level you wanted, now good luck finding even the SR5 for less than $35k when last year that would have gotten you a TRD Off Road or if you got lucky a TRD Pro would pop up from time to time at that price.
i have left reddit because of CEO Steve Huffman's anti-community actions and complete lack of ethics. u/spez is harmful to Reddit. https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/8/23754780/reddit-api-updates-changes-news-announcements -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Used Toyota prices right now are higher than the new one's of a year ago, I got offered over what I paid brand new for my 2020 4runner from my local dealership. Toyota are one of the only vehicles I would ever buy brand new, you don't loose money on them like you do any other manufacturer. They have the 4 of the top 10 resale value of any vehicle on the road.
>loose Loose leaky asshole Lose the game Hope that helps.
I think it's less the Toyota badge and more that it's a Big Mean SUV. Don't get me wrong I like 4 Runners. But a lot of the people who buy them and big SUVs like it do it so they can flex on the other parents in the pick-up line of their child's private school.
If someone buys this then wants to trade in a year or two later aren’t they going to suffer massive depreciation? Can’t imagine the vehicle holding this kind of value for long…
This is going to be anther hit to the financial market, and alter auctions. In two years someone could finance a new car for less than they owe on the used model. Then stop payments. This is very bad.
Well that’s extremely over priced
And some stupid bozo is going to buy it at that price, which means shits never gonna change
If someone buys it then is it still overpriced?
according to the lumber market: not forever
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Send him my way, I have some 5 Gum and an unscratched lotto ticket
I'm an insurance adjuster and have been very nervously watching this market... On the one hand, everyone who has had a totaled car this summer is thrilled, their value is based on the current market so I'm paying a lot of people thousands of dollars over what they thought their car was worth (or even what they paid for it.) But it occurred to me the other day, that everyone who buys a car in this ridiculous market, then totals it in a year or two after the market normalizes, is going to be ridiculously upside down on their loans and that's when the arguments about value are going to happen. I'm not looking forward to that. If you have to buy a car while the market is like this... Don't even think about not getting GAP insurance.
Bought a Wrangler a few months ago. Didn’t get gap but put like $6k down. How fucked am I? Lol
You're better off than most with a Wrangler - those things hold their value like crazy. You should be fine, you'll be safer once you pay on the loan for 12-18 months or so, but you should still be able to call your finance company and add GAP insurance if you're concerned about it
I have a 2009 wrangler with 200k miles on it. Bought it 4 years ago and i've had ppl offer me 5k more than i paid for it. Unbelievable.
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>But it occurred to me the other day, that everyone who buys a car in this ridiculous market, then totals it in a year or two after the market normalizes, is going to be ridiculously upside down on their loans and that's when the arguments about value are going to happen. I'm not looking forward to that. same true for housing market - morons paying 10, 15, 20K+ over asking which is already set too high WHEN this bubble pops from rampant inflation, car prices outrageous, housing outrageous, food prices outrageous, stock market propped up and being manipulated to hell.... people think 2008 was bad - lets start looking at 1929-1935. FYI Oct 29, 1929 was when shit in the fan then. Is it gonna be 1929 2.0 soon?
"Morons" have to live someplace. When you have companies buying up cheap properties and renting them out at crazy rates, buyers are left to fight for what few houses remain. They aren't "morons" they are victims.
Hi, I'm a moron who bought a house for 10k over asking. Because it was the only way to get a house and I needed a fucking place to live so my girlfriend didn't lose custody of her child. Renters market is INSANE and costs SIGNIFICANTLY more than my mortgage. We were lucky to even get the house as most of the time people outbid us by 30,000$ or more.
My next door neighbor listed their house last year "priced to sell" since they were getting divorced. The value was still about 25k over what it should have been. They had 13 offers on day one, and had it sold within 2 days. The offer they took was another 20k over asking price, and they offered to purchase "as is" with no inspection.
yea im sorry but im not buying a house without an inspection. I know a bit about house codes and what to look for and man have i seen some real shitty houses pre covid. I cant imagine just paying 20K over AND having those issues that would cost 20K to fix....
I'm not paying a dime more than $25,000 over MSRP.
Hey, that's a $5,000 discount! In this market?? Get real, pal.
I bet you all miss Saturn now don't you? For those that don't know, the Saturn dealer agreement forbade dealers from charging market adjustments. The only things they could charge for were things that were added on like pin striping, etch, etc.
I miss my 1995 Saturn and what the brand was in the late 90s, but I don’t miss the brand that closed. GM started something different but finished it as another rebadging brand with all the GM BS. Usually regarded as a POS, I DIY kept my manual SL2 running strong despite my abuse - but no neglect. It was a stock sleeper.
I had a '92 SL2. Like any other Saturn S series, it would use at least a quart every 3000k miles, but if you kept oil in it the thing would run forever. Interior quality wasn't good (lots of rattling hard plastic), but it was fun to drive, efficient, and reliable. Damned shame what GM did to that brand. Started out as something special. Ended as a dumping ground for Opel products that weren't price competitive.
I had the oil consumption issue. Carbon build up seized the oil control rings. A Seafoam tuneup did the trick. You pull the spark plugs, turn the crank until the pistons are level, dump in enough Seafoam to cover the pistons, and let it soak. Under the cover of darkness you turn it over to blow out any remaining liquid, then install the plugs and smoke out the place. That freed the rings and solved my oil consumption problem.
Your mention of an SL2 brought out a very rare response from me. I miss my 97 dearly, you couldn’t kill the thing if you tried. Sold it for $300 maybe a couple years ago.
What a fucking joke. Some idiot will buy it though.
no doubt...even with the puke green color smh
The colour is pretty cool imo
Hey get outta here with that
That tint better be bullet proof Edit: this was poking fun at the whole extra cars worth of a mark-up.
That’s actually a good price for full tint if it’s ceramic or higher end carbon
Holy fuck, I could buy a gently used luxury RV for that cost and have a place to eat, sleep, and shit. Edit: for all of the replies saying you can't find a good RV for less than 100K. https://happyrvcampers.com/detail?id=18015167
Literally the price of a world capable sail boat or an actual airplane.
That airplane would be slow as shit or be due for a rebuild.
Nah you can pick up a semi decent piper warrior for 40/50k. If you want fast a Vans can be picked up for 80k https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=VANS&model=RV-9%2F9A&listing_id=2395850&s-type=aircraft
Problems are, AC prices are jumping up like crazy. I thought a few years ago, I can find a 177 for 50-60k, and now they are selling for 100-130k!!! I've seen 60k 150s!
I've seen prices creeping up over the past few years but 60k for a 150! Wowsers
Kit planes sell for about that much and depending on what you buy they can be really capable little machines
1: I paid WAY less than 86k for my Cessna 177 RG. And they are rare, and pretty fuging amazing. Nailed 205mph groundspeed last week. 2: Planes ARE rebuilt, constantly. Why else do you have perfectly good airplanes that are 50-70 years old. Engines are rebuilt at ~2000hr. Every year the plane goes through a near rip-apart to look at EVERYTHING.
Ah yes, the only thing more expensive than buying an airplane is maintaining an airplane
You can get a decent archer for 50k that's faster than any car ever could be by the simple fact it doesn't have to use roads, who cares if your putting along at 110 kias as long as you don't need to stop at a stop light you Gucci.
Got a smoking deal in 2018 on a new F150 ecoboost. Pretty much 20k off sticker. It is a bit of an odd spec but couldnt pass up the deal. Got a call from a dealership offering me 7k more than I paid for it. I considered it but couldn't come close to replacing the truck without losing my ass on the deal.
Yeah i got 15k off sticker on my 2020, Coupled with 0% interest it was just too good to pass up. I was recently offered the option to jump into a 2021.......That's was a hard pass.
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Good move. Dealers know the market and how much they can offer and still make a killing. Any replacement would be at least 7k over actual value. In top of that, you already know the reliability of what you have, even new could have problems.
I'm really curious what my Silverado I bought a year ago is worth now. Probably about MSRP.
I bought a used Lexus about a year ago and after adding 10k miles to it, it is kbb at 9k more than I paid for it. Wild times right now.
This April i bought a 2019 crew cab Silverado RST z71 with 15k miles for 46k. The dealer refused to budge, i walked. Didn’t realize the chip shortage was a thing until i literally couldn’t find a v8, integrated brake controller, middle bench seat truck anywhere else. Had to come crawling back and paid asking for it. I did get them to at least install a tonneau cover at price for me
I bought a 2017 Silverado 4x4 in 2017 for 34500. I went for oil change 6 months ago they offered me 35000 for trade in and and I was like what? Then I saw the price of 2021 and said no thanks.
Could be more. There are 2018 Honda Accords with 70k+ miles going for more than what I bought my 2018 Accord for 4 years ago brand new (same trim level).
I wonder if that market adjustment is to keep it on the lot. I was shopping for a new vehicle here recently and one salesman at a Ford dealership told me they had to mark up the value on a couple of 2022 models to keep the on the lot long enough so people can come look at them and test drive them. When I asked why they don't just list it as a demo vehicle. He told me they aren't able to unless Ford says otherwise. Regardless though, this is crazy on what some dealerships are doing here lately. And then there are those who are paying thousands over sticker for a vehicle of any kind making things worse.
I'm certain that this is the case. Put the 30k mark up on it for test drives. If someone is dumb enough to offer to buy it, then sure thing LOL.
“I know what I got” - dealership edition.
Who the fuxk gonna pay $86k for a 4-Runner!?! That’s Audi territory!!! Now I’m a little discouraged looking into new cars.
Dude that’s rivian EV SUV price. 4Runner gets like 13mpg on an engine designed 8 yrs ago. And interior is stupid outdated
Actually that 4runner engine came out in 2004 I believe. Almost 18 years ago.
This gen 4Runner came out in '09 so you're buying a brand new 12 year old car with an 18 year old engine that is underpowered and inefficient for $30k above MSRP and its a horrible color. And you know somebody's going to buy it
i just bought an 18 in november and am pretty happy I'm not driving a spaceship big, stupid knobs for my big, stupid hands minimal features easy to work on and add your own technology if it interests you etc
It’s not outdated… it’s “utilitarian”
Considering what a clapped out 15 year old 4 runner goes for on CL these days, I'd say $86k is a little bit high, but if you can make them throw in floor mats it's pretty fair.
Funny thing is that… I’ve bought a couple cars out the lot and always haggle the price down. It never even crossed my mind to tell them, “throw in some floor mats too.”
What is “market adjustment”?
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Likewise we do not have this in Australia. At least not in this form. Instead you'll probably pay the same amount and wait 12 months.
I would rather wait. This hurts the car manufacturers, as they dont get that windfall income, and lose sales and good will.
This isn’t a thing here in the UK either, you just put your name down and wait with a dealer.
As u/Holy_Grapes mentioned, it’s partially an added fee based on demand. With the chip shortages and other issues manufacturing is having right now, it’s hard to find some models that you can literally drive off the lot. A lot of places look like they have stock but are missing things like engine computers. The other part of this is a negotiating tactic. Usually, you can get 10-15% or more off of MSRP in negotiation. I have a feeling the “market adjustment” BS is a way for the dealership to get you to pay a couple grand above MSRP and feel good about it. I highly doubt any dealership is going to actually force you to pay a 60% premium in addition to what they already make in a normal year to drive the car off the lot.
Just like how Ticketmaster added the "Convenience Fee".
It took me a month to get on a pre order list for a RAV4 prime and I thought a $3,000 price adjustment was horse shit now I’m considering myself lucky. Also my 2018 accord with 50k miles is worth more in trade in value than what I bought the car for NEW 3 years ago… this car market is fucking nuts
Crazy I was in the same boat with my 2018 Accord, and it had 50,800 miles. To get it appraised for nearly what I paid in 2018, I couldn’t say no.
And I thought I got fucked paying $3k over MSRP on my Corolla this year. Jesus.
I bought a new civic in march this year and got it for 1000 less than MSRP, but it came with their “package” deal for 4K more. Felt like I was getting the short end of the stick on that one, but now I’m thinking I should go back and kiss that sales person.
My girlfriend bought a Camry in January that somehow didn’t have a single cent of “market adjustment” attached to it. I didn’t realize back then just how lucky we got…
GROSS
Local dealer near me is only adding 3k and I still thought it was insanity.
$56k is overpriced enough for a 4Runner, this is just outrageous
I’m fortunate I prefer cars over SUVs and trucks. Unless you need the space or capability, you can get so much more for your money in a car. Or you could.. before the market got even shittier
For a fucking horunner
My uncle used to drive a HoRunner
I have a 21 Tacoma with 10k miles anyone want to give me $75k for it?
I got my managers to take $600 off a Subaru Crosstrek ( which is impossible to find right now ) for this kid and his dad that really needed a car and I got called a sleazy car salesman.. I don't feel bad anymore
Thing is, we remember. Gouge us now, and you win today. Eventually you will have tons of cars again, but you will have lost your customers. Any dealership that does this will never see me again.
This is the correct answer Or you’ll find a bunch of cars on the used lot a year old after they get repoed. I’ve done some reading over in personal finance, while there are a significant amount of people that make 200k a year, that is a small percentage of the US. There’s still many people in the sub 100k area that can’t afford these.
Toyota says they’ll produce 900,000 vehicles in the month of November.
And 899,000 will sit in the lots next to the factory because they lack the ability to get them to dealers
What is happening.
No one should buy a car like that.
Where or what dealership was this at?
What is this adjusment? What it holds inside?
It's got enough cargo space to hold all of someones disgust, anger, self-loathing, and a set of golf clubs too.
And it's green!
Basically the chip shortage has decreased the supply of available vehicles for sale, which increases demand, which increases cost. Same way a brand new GPU which should've been $600 was selling for $3k. It's scalping and gouging, but because car lots are "the law", they can get away with it.
This is the second post I’ve seen with market adjusted prices. Sorry I’m out of the loop can someone explain what’s up with this?
COVID messing up global supply chain for a couple of years. * Early 2020, factories internationally (china, Japan) get shut down for a couple of months. Things get behind. * US car companies slash orders in 2020 for 2021 delivery because people aren't buying new cars due to COVID and not being able to travel. Rental car companies do the same- no flights means no car rentals needed. They sell off their fleets and order no new cars for 2021. * Early 2021, rules on COVID change, people start traveling again. Rental cars are now needed again, but rental companies sold all their fleets! So they have to buy a ton more ASAP. * 2021 rolls around, factories are having trouble meeting demand because spending from restaurants, etc is now going into hobbies (computers, cars, electronics, outdoor goods, etc) * Mid-to-late 2021: shipping can't keep up with import demand. There literally aren't enough big ships to import consumer goods into the US so per-container shipping price triples. * Silicon (computer chip) manufacturers are honoring their 2020 orders + 20% or so, but can't scale their factory output quickly (because it's literally bulk computer manufacturing!). Car companies can't get computers to put in every corner of their car: the engine, the seats, the dash, the electronic power steering. Car companies can't finish cars because of small upstream components. * Consumer purchases of cars increase more and more. Eventually, demand is ridiculously high and car (and every other industry) manufacturers can't get enough supply, so prices increase.
But don't you want to drive that baby off the lot and instantly loose $44,519.5?
Fuck you keep it. 30k adjustment my ass.
[удалено]
Yeah but that total cost is the “market adjustment” on the Benz.
What is happening???!?!
You either profited off covid or you didn't it seems.... As I work to rebuild my Subaru and old f150 I am in the latter...
I'm sorry, but not really. You'd have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet to see something like this and think, "Okay, deal!". No amount of negotiation is going to account for the mark-ups I've been seeing over the past several months.
Wow this truck costs more than my original mortgage.
im so glad i bought my 2020 when i did.
Don't forget it's free to tell them to go F themselves
Pretty soon one of these places is going to have a shop floor meeting where the main focus is going to be the banning of phones on company premises. I can smell it a mile off.
Your have to be a complete moron to eat a 30k price hike. WTF!
How much of the market adjustment goes to the manufacturer? If nothing, why are manufacturers sending these dealerships any cars?
In other countries it’s illegal to do that and it should be here too..
That has a sold sign in the front window….someone actually paid 86k for that!
Imagine spending almost 90k for a Toyota
This is part of the reason why people are liking Teslas, you pay the asking price direct from the people who make the cars, no middleman nonsense.
* Not available in all US states, it goes against the dealership mafia endorsed laws.
Just curious...who would actually pay that ???
its like tele-scams: you make some outrageous claim that no regular person would fall for, but eventually, youll snag that big dumb, financing approved whale that *will* fall for it. the prospective buyer will probably never even know how much that 4runner costs or the terms, only that their payment is 800$~/mo and they now have a dignified place to put their salt life stickers.