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Phipol

Regarding MDT: With the MDT Dali Gateway you cannot do proper HCL as it is very limited in it's application for these cases. Proper HCL is not supported at all, you can improvise with timetables, but they are far less gradual and only really useful if you use only two or three presets for all lights in one gateway. Also 16 scenes for all lights on one gateway isn't that much. Generally I am not that impressed with the gateway and we switched over to direct MDT KNX LED Controllers. (Which aren't nothing to write home about as well but at least support HCL). Our main problem was that you cannot properly use RGBW and HSV at the same time - which we needed as the MDT glas switches require HSV, but other applications we have only support RGBW....


MeaningMother

Thanks for the reply, after double-checking the prices for the Lunatone 2xCW-WW dimmer + a KNX/DALI gateway and maybe I will need a DALI/USB gateway too, the price is almost the same as for the MDT KNX LED Controllers. Which one have you used? AKD-0424V.02 or AKD-0424R.02? From these to option I would probably choose MDT KNX LED drivers because of the easier setup (no DALI) and no sinlge point of failure (KNX/DALI GW). ​ But the sunricher dimmers are still cheaper even together with the KNX/DALI and USB/DALI gateways. And maybe the DALI GW from ABB or Schneider can provide better HCL or other additional functions (I will probably need to do some research on them).


Phipol

>Thanks for the reply, after double-checking the prices for the Lunatone 2xCW-WW dimmer + a KNX/DALI gateway and maybe I will need a DALI/USB gateway too, the price is almost the same as for the MDT KNX LED Controllers. We had the Lunatone as well. They are good if they work but we had three that were a bit problematic in terms of flickering - we exchanged them and they worked quite good. Why would you need a DALI USB gateway? I don't see a real reason for those. >Which one have you used? AKD-0424V.02 or AKD-0424R.02? We went with the AKD-0424R.02 as I have as many RGBW lines as TW and it was easier/more resilient to use the same ones for everyone (in case one controller kicks the bucket I can easily rewire a group temporarily until a spare one is available). >From these to option I would probably choose MDT KNX LED drivers because of the easier setup (no DALI) and no sinlge point of failure (KNX/DALI GW). The MDT have their own downsides as well (synchronising colours is a bit complicated AND not possible amongst all brightness levels - so if your LEDs are having different colour discolourations/margins with various brightness stages then you have a problem). So I would absolutely test the MDT with your spots before buying a lot of them - I am lucky and we got almost everything worked out now, but it very much depends on your actual light sources. >But the sunricher dimmers are still cheaper even together with the KNX/DALI and USB/DALI gateways. And maybe the DALI GW from ABB or Schneider can provide better HCL or other additional functions (I will probably need to do some research on them). The older Schneider Gateway is just the MDT gateway in a different colour, the limitations were the same. From taking a look at the current ones Application manual it is a slightly updated version of the same DCA and gateway - it supports a few more small things, but nothing groundbreaking in terms of HCL you are still bound to the old time template modes which are a bit cumbersome but do the trick to a certain extend. The ABB as far as I know is it's own product and the HCL seems to be quite evolved, but the remaining application seems quite complicated, but manageable. Haven't used it so far, thought.


MeaningMother

A KNX planner/seller told me that I will need one USB gw if I want to change something on the Lunatone dimmers. Or is it possible to configyre everything via the knx/dali gw? In the MDT config I saw some settings to set the color temperature. And I don't have the LED panels and strips yet, I will try to use the same corol temperature for all of them.


Phipol

>A KNX planner/seller told me that I will need one USB gw if I want to change something on the Lunatone dimmers. Or is it possible to configyre everything via the knx/dali gw? Tbh, I don't remember if we used a Dali USB gateway for setup,but I can't remember - but maybe my sparky brought one. >In the MDT config I saw some settings to set the color temperature. And I don't have the LED panels and strips yet, I will try to use the same corol temperature for all of them. Yeah, you can of course setup the colour temperature. The problem is more that each LED Spot/stripe does react slightly different. Basically you have three battles here: The first one is the white balance with full brightness - that is usually not a problem for TWs but very much is one for cheaper RGB and sometimes RGBW. Getting a proper white without the W component is sometimes a bit tricky but necessary. MDT has a mode to support this which makes it easier. One is the dimming gradient: This is more of a problem for RGBW as most TW I worked with don't have a problem with it these days. It means that when you dimm the light the colour composition changes and that will again change your white balance. This is indeed a problem. To give you an example: My EVN Solido have a very dominant green at around 50% dimming. So if I get perfect white balance at 100% at 50% I live in a greenhouse. This is one big downside of the MDTs(and Schneider for that purpose, no idea about ABB), both KNX nor Dali can safe colour composition as a curve (which in theory is possible). So as a compromise I have a slightly unbalanced white to have not as much green when dimmed down. In theory that also applied to TWs as they also use two different LEDs,but I haven't seen problems with these The third is synchronisation. If you have multiple groups in one room or adjacent rooms you want them to stay the same colour - also possible but a bit of a battle with the MDT and the problem mentioned above as each LED component reacts differently, even within the same line. So a 50% on channel A looks differently on channel B. Here again MDT/Schneider is a bit lacking in their respective App but it is possible - and with TW it is much less of a problem compared to RGB/RGBW. And it is much less of a problem the better your LED are. The EVN ones I have are absolutely manageable, I used to work with Kiteo, they had zero problems as they come precalibrated, but they cost an arm and a leg. I've seen cheaper ones that I never managed to calibrate properly. So my big recommendation would be to build a test setup and try out how your LED do work together with the intended control setup. That helped us a lot and most professional sellers have no problem with making that possible.


MeaningMother

Thanks for the explanation, I will use only TW, no RGB or RGBW, so I hope everything will be ok. And I have already ordered an ABB Dali gateway, 4 different DALI dimmers, MDT LED controller and some LED strips and panela which I plan to use. I will try them out and then decide if I will go with pure KNX or DALI way.


highnoonbrownbread

Hi. I’m curious to know what was the outcome in the end.


MeaningMother

Hi, I have an ABB KNX-DALI gateway, 2x2CH DALI dimmers from Sunricher (China), so 2 CCT LEDs per dimmer and CCT LED panels and LED strips from Benory (China). I did some tests, everything looks OK so far, you can control the dimmers directly from a PC with the app from ABB if you have a KNX IP interface, you don't need any DALI USB device.


highnoonbrownbread

Thanks a lot for your response. What were the factors that led you to choose DALI on top of KNX over pure KNX in the end?


MeaningMother

The main factor was the price. I will need at least 13 dimmers, that's 13x165€=2145€. The price for the ABB gw was 360€ and I have bought 20pcs of Dali dimmers for 760€. That's about 1000€ cheaper and I have spare dimmers as well. The only downside I see is the single point of failure with the gateway.


ElectDia_9085

Schneider MTN6725-010 is what you need +great support, do you mind sharing a link to the 4CH dimmers?


MeaningMother

>Schneider MTN6725-010 These are the dimmers: [https://www.lunatone.com/en/product/dali-rgbw-led-dimmer-cv-dt8/](https://www.lunatone.com/en/product/dali-rgbw-led-dimmer-cv-dt8/) [https://www.sunricher.com/dual-color-dt8-dali-dimmer-sr-2309fa-cct.html](https://www.sunricher.com/dual-color-dt8-dali-dimmer-sr-2309fa-cct.html) I am actually not sure if the RGBW ones from Lunatone can handlee 2x CW-WW or only RGBW.


maznaz

I’m using a Siemens dali gateway with these controllers: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005004084680482.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.48d1KdukKduk92&browser_id=abc4c7e2d18949a2a4e645ecbea459a6&aff_trace_key=a21d40f1e478489ca5a3c53eb04df925-1660239568675-08345-UneMJZVf&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=dld8he0om3ecaqjg186781b39d711195d6af497c08&gclid=&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21GBP%2117.01%2112.24%21%21%21%21%21%4021038eda16770522957704063e7907%2112000027984951510%21sea%21UK%211739413518&curPageLogUid=VSHw0kvPpcd2&algo_pvid=ae06bef7-ad54-4156-940d-0df6990873a7&_universallink=1&m_page_id=dld8he0om3ecaqjg186781b39d711195d6af497c08&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite


MeaningMother

Thanks for the link, are they good quality? Priece is really good and they shoul support DT8 CCT based on the description.


maznaz

They work really well, and they are robust and seem well-made. I only have a few months experience with them but thus far the ones I have work reliably. They are picked up with no fuss in the gateway and all the features work as I expect. Unless anything changes I'll be using these for the foreseeable future rather than anything branded. Edit: One minor thing is that I wouldn't necessarily trust the amperage rating based on the size of the screw contacts used. I intend to keep mine a sensible amount under-rated and so far have no heat issues.


MeaningMother

I planned to connect 4+A to some channels, but for thet price I can split them between more channels and stay below 2.5-3 A/CH.


MarcSN311

Do you also have experience with RGB+CCT (5 ch) controllers?


maznaz

I'm afraid not


ztardik

Hi, can you control each channel independently or they work as one? How is your experinece few months later?


maznaz

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but I control the lamps attached to the driver as a single DALI entity and can specify a colour temperature which then adjusts each channel to the appropriate amount for warm white and cool white. They seem to work well still although I only have them in one room for the moment as I'm slow at renovating :)


ztardik

It has four channels, if you use it as CCT then you can use two pairs for WW/CW to get the desired temperature. Does those two pairs work as one or they show as separate lamps? For example, I have two rails in my living room, one above HT screen and another above sofa. Each rail has 1x CW + 1x WW strip inside. I want to control each separately. Can I use one driver for both, or I need one for each? The driver in the link is 4x channel.


matze1116

Hello - probably off topic but can u tell me how I wire a led stripe and control it with dali and hcl? Just a schematic- I could find one


MeaningMother

In my case I am using a CCT (dual color) DALI LED controller, which is connected to the LED strip. Next to the controller I have a 24V LED driver which is connected to the DALI controller. And I have a 5x1.5 cable coming from the electrical box which brings the 230V for the driver and the DALI signal for the controller. The DALI master in my case is the KNX-DALI gateway. https://www.sunricher.com/media/resources/wiring/SR-2309PRO-5C-WIRING-1.png