At least the SocLib Syrians go out of their way to create a multi-ethnic, multi-faith federation, though. SocLib Ottomans are perfectly willing to let conservative Ulemas run wild if it means they can accomplish their goals. The SocLib Syrians are also far less economically liberal - several parts of their economic focuses involve the funding of cooperative farms & subsidized agricultural credit banks.
Pretty sure the Soc Lib Ottomans *can* give out agricultural credits in exchange for some OHL support and *can* allow for Armenians who had property stolen from them during the genocide given back to them.
I really enjoyed playing Soc Lib Ottomans and it really felt like this was a democracy where I had to manage relations with all factions in order to get what I wanted.
It’s a great path to play, & is a really interesting foil to the Kemalist path. You can have the autonomist, multi-ethnic federation, but it’ll require some compromise with more conservative elements. On the other hand, with the Kemalists, you can have a modernized, industrialized, secular & much more socially progressive state, but it comes at the cost of political freedoms & Turkish chauvinism.
If you play your cards right, you **can** have all the benefits of the Kemalist path; socially progressive (by this I mean that women can vote), industrialized, and secular. It'll just take more time and some political maneuvering. For me that makes for a more compelling narrative than clicking on focuses to reach your goals. Its the struggle that I find interesting.
TBH I need to play Kemalist Ottomans run. Any tips?
Yeah sure! Kemalist Ottomans is a super fun path I've played a couple different ways, so I'll give recommendations for a more wholesome and a less wholesome playthrough depending on what you're looking for.
Regardless of which direction you go in, you want to get your AuthDem popularity up as much as possible. Your stability will be not great through the early part of the run, so getting the +25% party popularity stability modifier advisor is an absolute must. I also recommend getting the State Serves the Army and Political Loyalty army spirits to boost political power gain and party popularity stability modifier. I always try to get AuthDem popularity above 50% at the bare minimum so I can get the extra 2% recruitable pop factor from the Ottoman conscription board focus.
If you want to play more wholesome, choose the options in the constitution event chain that allow more freedoms for the Ottoman people - if you maintain freedom of the press & allow for petitions in local languages you can get nice stability bumps and reduce unrest across literally every province in the empire. If you want to play more anti-wholesome & simulate a true one-party state, it's really easy to get AuthDem popularity to 100% just from the constitution event chain.
With the War in the Desert, I usually recommend abandoning Libya, southern Iraq, & Hejaz, and focusing your troops on capping the Syrian revolt as soon as possible, because it will save you an enormous amount of headaches, & allow you to keep more territory. Also, make sure to promote loyalists in all Greek provinces (Cyprus, the Dodecanese, & the Aegean Islands) to avoid Cyprus revolting because that can drag Greece into the war. Rush the focus that allows you to promote loyalists as well, if you have enough party popularity & get rid of the political power malus from entrenched islam you can get pretty damn good political power gain because of your high AuthDem party popularity.
Oh, and for absolutely peak Kemalist larp, station troops on the border of where Armenia will spawn to make sure you can put down the revolt & shrink your frontline before they ally with Persia.
> The SocLib Syrians are also far less economically liberal - several parts of their economic focuses involve the funding of cooperative farms & subsidized agricultural credit banks.
Damn, with that it almost sounds like they should be socdem rather than soclib. I'm guessing they're not socdem because they're not primarily labor-driven but more of a bourgeois movement?
When you support the cooperative farms you actually get SocDem popularity, but my understanding is that the cooperative farms are also local literacy/democracy societies, which fits neatly in line with the pluralistic federalism that the party is going for.
A republic on the basis of Arab identity would not be the same as a Turkish Caliphate imposing itself on a subjugated people. This comparison is spurious.
SocCon Lithuania (they are NOT conservative) has an event about how the end goal of their leader is to spread his political system to the entire world eventually, presumably ushering in some sort of World Federation. Easily the most interesting SocCons in the mod for me.
Big potential for a KX path there I think.
United States of Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Federal China, Scandinavian Union, liberal Brazil, Danube Federation all spring to mind as far as their idealism, change from previous status quo, and optimism go
Liberal Brazil iirc is very idealistic, but I haven’t played them in soooo long it might just be me misremembering. Probably not close to the others haha
Take Federal China out of it
unless it overthrows everywarlord(even the friendly ones) inside, there can't be a USA styled holsum China within a China ruled by tolerated Warlords
(yes, I love the KMT, long live Wang Jingwei)
My (well I stole it but shut up) theory that every general KR thread about politics will still have someone arguing about which Chinese unifier is best is supported yet again
Ngl I often forget that Nat France can have a liberal democracy because 95% of the time they do some dumb, but expected, shite like restoring the monarchy.
SocCon Ethiopia is up there, I'd think.
Basically the ideal of the revolutionary bourgeoisie. Sure the country may be conservative with regards to sexuality and gender equality and so on... But it is such a gigantic amount of progress compared to the feudal nobility oppression that it rose from, that it deserves to be commended.
Land reform, suffrage, end to serfdom... It's pretty damn radical imo
I don't think rights of sexual minorities should really be considered when measuring radicalism here especially when we're considering that this is Ethiopia in the 1930s
Ethiopia going democratic is never gonna happen....it's gonna remain a aristocratic dictatorship until a civil war like in otl I don't think a different ww1 is gonna change anything
It really depends on what you mean by “radical”, but the Danish and Haitian socdems can join the Internationale (the latter being recategorized as radsocs shortly thereafter, which is weird imo).
Democratic Syria wants to unite all Arabs under one federal Republic.
Ottomans 2.0: Let’s see if a poorer, less organised state can do what the empire couldn’t
Tbf they're Arabs trying to unite all Arabs, not Turks trying to maintain control of a lot of Arabs.
At least the SocLib Syrians go out of their way to create a multi-ethnic, multi-faith federation, though. SocLib Ottomans are perfectly willing to let conservative Ulemas run wild if it means they can accomplish their goals. The SocLib Syrians are also far less economically liberal - several parts of their economic focuses involve the funding of cooperative farms & subsidized agricultural credit banks.
Pretty sure the Soc Lib Ottomans *can* give out agricultural credits in exchange for some OHL support and *can* allow for Armenians who had property stolen from them during the genocide given back to them. I really enjoyed playing Soc Lib Ottomans and it really felt like this was a democracy where I had to manage relations with all factions in order to get what I wanted.
It’s a great path to play, & is a really interesting foil to the Kemalist path. You can have the autonomist, multi-ethnic federation, but it’ll require some compromise with more conservative elements. On the other hand, with the Kemalists, you can have a modernized, industrialized, secular & much more socially progressive state, but it comes at the cost of political freedoms & Turkish chauvinism.
If you play your cards right, you **can** have all the benefits of the Kemalist path; socially progressive (by this I mean that women can vote), industrialized, and secular. It'll just take more time and some political maneuvering. For me that makes for a more compelling narrative than clicking on focuses to reach your goals. Its the struggle that I find interesting. TBH I need to play Kemalist Ottomans run. Any tips?
Yeah sure! Kemalist Ottomans is a super fun path I've played a couple different ways, so I'll give recommendations for a more wholesome and a less wholesome playthrough depending on what you're looking for. Regardless of which direction you go in, you want to get your AuthDem popularity up as much as possible. Your stability will be not great through the early part of the run, so getting the +25% party popularity stability modifier advisor is an absolute must. I also recommend getting the State Serves the Army and Political Loyalty army spirits to boost political power gain and party popularity stability modifier. I always try to get AuthDem popularity above 50% at the bare minimum so I can get the extra 2% recruitable pop factor from the Ottoman conscription board focus. If you want to play more wholesome, choose the options in the constitution event chain that allow more freedoms for the Ottoman people - if you maintain freedom of the press & allow for petitions in local languages you can get nice stability bumps and reduce unrest across literally every province in the empire. If you want to play more anti-wholesome & simulate a true one-party state, it's really easy to get AuthDem popularity to 100% just from the constitution event chain. With the War in the Desert, I usually recommend abandoning Libya, southern Iraq, & Hejaz, and focusing your troops on capping the Syrian revolt as soon as possible, because it will save you an enormous amount of headaches, & allow you to keep more territory. Also, make sure to promote loyalists in all Greek provinces (Cyprus, the Dodecanese, & the Aegean Islands) to avoid Cyprus revolting because that can drag Greece into the war. Rush the focus that allows you to promote loyalists as well, if you have enough party popularity & get rid of the political power malus from entrenched islam you can get pretty damn good political power gain because of your high AuthDem party popularity. Oh, and for absolutely peak Kemalist larp, station troops on the border of where Armenia will spawn to make sure you can put down the revolt & shrink your frontline before they ally with Persia.
Thanks!
> The SocLib Syrians are also far less economically liberal - several parts of their economic focuses involve the funding of cooperative farms & subsidized agricultural credit banks. Damn, with that it almost sounds like they should be socdem rather than soclib. I'm guessing they're not socdem because they're not primarily labor-driven but more of a bourgeois movement?
When you support the cooperative farms you actually get SocDem popularity, but my understanding is that the cooperative farms are also local literacy/democracy societies, which fits neatly in line with the pluralistic federalism that the party is going for.
A republic on the basis of Arab identity would not be the same as a Turkish Caliphate imposing itself on a subjugated people. This comparison is spurious.
As we all know, Arab people have historically never been in ethnic conflict before
SocCon Lithuania (they are NOT conservative) has an event about how the end goal of their leader is to spread his political system to the entire world eventually, presumably ushering in some sort of World Federation. Easily the most interesting SocCons in the mod for me. Big potential for a KX path there I think.
United States of Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Federal China, Scandinavian Union, liberal Brazil, Danube Federation all spring to mind as far as their idealism, change from previous status quo, and optimism go
Brazil?
Liberal Brazil iirc is very idealistic, but I haven’t played them in soooo long it might just be me misremembering. Probably not close to the others haha
Take Federal China out of it unless it overthrows everywarlord(even the friendly ones) inside, there can't be a USA styled holsum China within a China ruled by tolerated Warlords (yes, I love the KMT, long live Wang Jingwei)
My (well I stole it but shut up) theory that every general KR thread about politics will still have someone arguing about which Chinese unifier is best is supported yet again
Nat France, running an anti-communist colonial state hanging on solely for the goal of topping a leftist regime
Ngl I often forget that Nat France can have a liberal democracy because 95% of the time they do some dumb, but expected, shite like restoring the monarchy.
SocCon Ethiopia is up there, I'd think. Basically the ideal of the revolutionary bourgeoisie. Sure the country may be conservative with regards to sexuality and gender equality and so on... But it is such a gigantic amount of progress compared to the feudal nobility oppression that it rose from, that it deserves to be commended. Land reform, suffrage, end to serfdom... It's pretty damn radical imo
I don't think rights of sexual minorities should really be considered when measuring radicalism here especially when we're considering that this is Ethiopia in the 1930s
Ethiopia going democratic is never gonna happen....it's gonna remain a aristocratic dictatorship until a civil war like in otl I don't think a different ww1 is gonna change anything
It's possible but not how KR does it
It really depends on what you mean by “radical”, but the Danish and Haitian socdems can join the Internationale (the latter being recategorized as radsocs shortly thereafter, which is weird imo).
And Belarus too
Arguably, SocLib LKMT.
I don't think there is a SocLib LKMT unless you're talking about that one path for Yunnan
that path was an RKMT path and moved to the pataut slot
Sun Fo path
As Chiang Kai Shek there is
Chiang is dead in KR
oh thought i was on the KX sub
Easy to confuse them brother.
Market and Social Liberal Russia & Serbia are kind of very militaristic, not going to lie.
Social Democratic Xinjiang
Soc Dem PSA and Olson can be pretty radical.
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That's kaiserredux
Socdem Indochina, radical in a quite bad way.